not to mention that many, MANY people tried finding the ark following a translation error. Because of course the english bible must be correct.... Apparently the original doesn't say "Mount Ararat" but "among the mountains of Ararat", likely meaning Armenia. Taking the bible as literal source is silly enough for history, let alone physics... Than again, it is nonsense anyway, so how silly it is, doesn't really matter anymore.
I'd be willing to believe someone brought mating pairs of all the domesticated animals of the region to replenish following the flood but i'm still not sold on the whole, predicting the flood thing to make that happen, its probably an addition to explain tings inserted later on. The flood myth is common throughout the babylon-india area so i reckon there was a great flood of either the tigris or euphrates at some point that someone (who probably already owned a boat) survived to tell a good story from but theres still too much in these myths, particularly the abrahamic version, to offer plausible explanation for. And yes, china also has a great flood myth but given the history of their rivers, its not out of the question for that to have arisen independent of the babylonian one.
@@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo I know it’s not real. I know human’s don’t come back from the dead. I know snakes don’t talk. I know people who believe in supernatural fairly tales, have no more rights to comment on the bible than I do.
@@jamiewilson9280 A long-lost city that was written about in the bible was found to exist. In the same way as in two thousand years time, people will believe that "The Werewolf in London" was real because London actually existed 😂😂😂
Your coping do hard to make this fairy tale real. It’s really sad. Your adult intelligent people. Desperately trying to make sense of nonsense. That is the poison of religion
Well, that was a curious watch. Love your reactions otherwise, folks, but there's a big cultural difference here. Never mind all of the non-religious people here in Britain, I don't think most British Christians would get so defensive about whether an Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled or not.
true, but in schools religion is even more forced on children in the UK than the US, where it has to legally stay out. And the British are blistering unaware of that. They then leave into a healthier, more logical environment, while for Americans it gets worse after school.
@@Thisandthat8908 I don't believe that. My kids went to my old school, one still does. And they don't do anything like what I had to do. We had to sing hymns in assembly, say prayers before we had our lunch, do the nativity. And the school wasn't a religious school, just a normal one. My kids never did any of that. They don't even sing Christmas carols anymore.
Every aspect of British life culture and history is founded by the church especially science. It's only recently that atheism has come to the fore. Atheism has no achievements but is a positive product of English democracy and free will borne of western philosophy which are innately spiritual at their foundations.
You're grasping there, because lineage back then was defined on the male line only. But also marriage back then also was not confirmed until consummated, so if Mary was Jospeh's wife she could not have been a virgin.
I seem to remember reading that Mary being thought of as a virgin is because of a mis-translation of the original texts which never claimed she was a virgin, they just described her as being a young woman.
Just think of the logistical problems involved if everyone in the Roman world (or even the Jewish part of it) had to return to their ancestral birthplace just to get registered. Everything would grind to a halt for months. And how would you prove who you were...just turning up somewhere you'd likely never been to before and had no immediate roots in? Photo ID? Complete cobblers. Plus it's a matter of historical record that Herod the Great had been dead for 10 years by the time Quirinius was made governor of Syria (4 BCE and 6 CE respectively) so there goes the tale of the Magi popping in for a chat with him.
I'm sorry I want to be kind to you, but you said intellectualls over think it. That is absurd handwashing of you. Your implication is you underthink it. You are welcome to gain whatever comfort your faith gives you but when it clashes with known facts, it is wrong and you must face that. I find your reaction to the fact there was no census very, very depressing and sad.
Hi guys. It's good that you are reasonably open to the discussions around the Tora and the New Testament Bible versus. Remember, Mary was not referred to as the "Virgin Mary" until the late 300's AD. Many of these transcripts described Mary as being "a young woman" and the Hebrew word for "young Woman" being mis-translated as "Virgin". Why would this happen, you might ask. Well because the Egyptian god Horus was also described as having been "born of a Virgin". (Apparently about at least 6 other "god claims" from other religions also claimed they were "born of virgins" so it was just yet another thing that "god claims" clung to. There are many things from the Egyptian gods that were plagarised by the early Christian biblical writers. That's also why there are many stories, in multiple religions, particularly in the Old Testament, the Tora, that obviously came from other earlier religions eg the whole story of Noah's Ark comes from the Epic of Gildgermash that occurred hundreds of years before the Noah version by the Jews. I'm not saying "gotch-a" here. They ALL stole/borrowed from each other. The Roman Catholic church, in particular, stole a lot of the religious trappings like Saints always having a circle around their heads when depicted in paintings and drawings, from Egypt. Plus, the robes and head gear worn by Bishops were a direct copy of Egyptian religious clothing.
This isn't true, 'The Protoevangelium of James', which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many states she was a virgin, you're confusing it with Perpetual virginity of Mary - In the 3rd century (200s) Hippolytus of Rome held that Mary was "ever-virgin".
I’ll add that Zoroaster whose vision from an angel disclosed to him that there was but one God, kicked off and was echoed by the other monotheistic religions.
@@AlBarzUK It was written down 309-379 AD and revised 531-579 AD, the problem is Avestan texts, the oldest of which dates to the 13th century AD, Jewish and Christian writings are much older.
So you say the academics are wrong & because you go to church & read a fiction story wrote a lot of years later, you’re correct. I’m not knocking you or anyone but just starting a conversation about what’s known to be true & what is told by people who lived at a later time through stories they’d been told were true. I can tell people a story based on anything & just 100yrs later the story will get embellished into a totally new one. The church is rich yet “Jesus’s” message was of poverty & help the needy. Seems like hypocrisy to me.
@davidkettlewell I think they use Encyclopedia Britanica for the information I'm sure I Read some where. But could be wrong. But Steven Fry is Exstemely intelligent.
@@davidkettlewell Well, sometimes they did, their research has proven to be either very dodgy or not fully used in the show for comedic purpose, sometimes they even twist facts for the sake of that, they are certainly biased on a subject like this and jump on any chance to ridicule religion, which of course doesn't change the fact religion actually is ridiculous bs but you have to know where people are coming from.
Lets face it 'you' are NOT dependent on 'history', only the story inflicted on 'Christians' by powerful people ensuring their power is maintained. Denial of the power usually meant death or torture! By the way I have read the bible as a poorly written story book, and it still amazes me that people believe it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Bible can't even agree on Joseph's lineage - the genealogies in Matthew and Luke align for only approximately seventeen names out of one hundred! And Bible apologists, as usual, jump through hoops to justify the contradictions.
We actually know an awful lot about censuses in the Roman Empire, because they were vital to the Roman taxation system and thus involved a great number of civil servants creating and maintaining some very detailed records - even by modern standards. The chronicles and annals of the period also frequently reference them to help with the dating of events (as later with the Constantinian system of the fifteen year fiscal cycle, or "indiction"). And, because most of the writers of these "histories" happened to be persons who held public offices, many had access to these records at the time that they were writing. Consequently we know that Luke was mistaken with his dating of the census, and most likely referred instead to the census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which prompted the Jewish revolt of Judas of Galilee. I do not believe that this interpretation is disputed by modern historians, or even by biblical scholars or the majority of Christian apologists. The biblical census never happened, it is an error in Luke's text.
The are 2 lineages mentioned for Jesus in the Bible, one in Mathew and one in Luke. They both go through Joseph to establish David as Jesus' ancestor. They are also completely different lineages. It has been argued that Luke has Mary's lineage ("Joseph, the son of Heli" is apparently referring to Josephs father-in-law, Mary's father Heli). This doesn't address the fact that they have different lineages for David as well. If this sounds like silly apologetics to attempt to gloss over the different authors making up different genealogies, that's because it is.
Theology is NOT history, it's religion. Everyone in Europe can trace their lineage back to Charlemange. Once you get past a certain point it is kinda irrelevant... As for scripture think how accurate it can be centuries after the quoted events? I suspect there is no accuracy at all, just interpretation of stories passed down verbally until someone wrote it down interpreting and framing it in the way they believe best expressed the story. Then each change of language and their doctrines and beliefs brings with it another benevolent interpretation.
I speak English. You also speak English. But we do not speak the same English. Thats how easy it is for the Bible to have tangible different interpretations or understandings, and to cause mystification between provable facts and speculative history.
Islam seems to have learned to not have the translation difficulties down the line by insisting their scriptures have to be read in the Arabic language for accuracy.
The sectarian wars are not over the Quran, all Muslims believe in the same Quran. The wars are political in nature, ie following I believe the 3rd ruler after the prophet (SAW), there was a disagreement who should take over the rulership. Some believe it should have stayed in the family of the prophet (SAW) - these being the Shia and they make up about 5-10% of Muslims, and the rest are Sunni. In the Quran, Mary was a virgin, and Jesus (AS) was created without male intervention, showing God creating without male and female intervention (Adam) and without female intervention ( Eve). Also quite interestingly, the Quran states that Jesus (AS) miraculously spoke after Mary gave birth to him to defend her honor - because as per the Torah, the penalty for adultery/Californication was death by stoning….
Islam seems to have been created in a similar era to when New Testament books were being written, collected, and sometimes rejected. Part of Christianity’s problem is that the Bible wasn’t all in one language. Part of Islam’s problem is that the Q’ran was. Languages and cultures constantly evolve away from and obfuscating those ancient scriptures. Billions of people will not learn Aramaic, Greek, or Arabic, and those few who do are unable to disseminate their understandings and interpretations. Language, geographical and historical context puts both out of reach for everyone who came before and nearly everyone who came after those writings. IMHO
Talking about lineage and ancestry. If your ancestors can be traced back to around 9th or 10th Century Europe you are probably a descendent of Emperor Charlemagne of the Franks. Belgium, Germany!
There ware many books who are rejected for different reason, Book of Eli, half of Book of Paul, They found pieces of Matheus and Judas that Jesus ask to Judas to Betray him so he can forgive our Sins [not yet knowing he must die for it], piecer of Genesis are taken out of the Bible because people were nor ready for it and wouldn't understand. [from a German Theolog from the Vatican]
You state you are not an intellectual. I think it's safe to assume we all realize this. I gather you are a teacher, indeed a primary teacher. In the UK teachers just about classified as professionals workers. As for primary teachers glorified child-minders! Just in case, you do know Hogwarts is not real?
The thing with Biblical teachings is that you are only told what they want you to believe and leave out anything that might turn you away from religion. For instance, Mary was married to Joseph between the ages of 9 and 13 and gave birth to Jesus not long after that. Or that Adam had two wives and the first being Lilith who was created at the same time as Adam. Hence why Man and Woman are created at the same time in Genesis 1 but Eve is created in Genesis 2.
Whether or not you agree with him, Stephen Fry is a vehement atheist. He has been interviewed several times on the matter and tends to come across as sneering at Christians - and other religions. I've not seen his reaction if/when someone who really knows the Bible opposes his views.
Matthew wrote that St Mary is related to king David. Theirs a few good gospel that are not in the main Catholic Bible. The protestants removed 7 books out the old Testament. They're mentioned 24 lost books of the Bible.. A few certain Gnotics believers that the book of Enoch, the gospel of Peter, are important. .. Some not not listed are. the gospels of Mary Magdalene , judas and Thomas( different from the " infancy Gospel of Thomas.") . Also the Dead Sea Scrolls are not in the Catholic Bible. The Ethiopian Bible is different in many ways. Even the Greek/East Orthodox bible. India have a complete different view of Jesus. And of course. Islam. Merry Christmas. Ho. Ho. Ho. 🎉🎅🤶🎄
One of the issues I have with their objections against the census etc are based on a lack of understanding of customs, culture geopolitical landsape etc of that period. None of them quoted and creditable sources etc.
We actually know an awful lot about censuses in the Roman Empire, because they were vital to the Roman taxation system and thus involved a great number of civil servants creating some very detailed records - even by modern standards. The chronicles and annals of the period also frequently reference them to help with the dating of events (as later with the Constantinian system of the fifteen year fiscal cycle, or "indiction", being used to date events). And, because most of the writers of these "histories" happened to be persons who held public offices, many had access to these records. Consequently we know that Luke was mistaken with his dating of the census, and most likely referred instead to the census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which prompted the Jewish revolt of Judas of Galilee. I do not believe that this interpretation is disputed by modern historians, or even by biblical scholars or the majority of Christian apologists. The biblical census never happened, it is an error in Luke's text.
I never, ever comment but feel totally compelled to say - Nick, please let Jodie move to Scotland with her 'friend' while you brainwash the kids with bible nonsense. And which church has made you appear 'scary' to schoolkids? Probably Mormon but correct me if I'm wrong... lol.
Yes, the gospel of Luke traces Mary’s lineage to David , Jacob, Isaac, Abraham all the way back to Adam!!! The whole earth are descendants of Noah’s sons!!!
No Marie wasn't related to Jospeh. He was however 90 and she was 12 when they married, so perfect that God got her knocked up. Or it would have been one less thing Christians can moan about Islam over. But in a larger sense they must be related if we all come from Adam and Eve.
Nick you are probably right. Stephen doesn't know everything and it isn't his faith by birth....not sure of his current stance. We all assume Stephen's words are gospel due to all the stuff we have heard him spout from the cards he has. Good work being a smarty pants! That, Nick, was "Quite Interesting". Great work, and the only appropriate reward is a.....? Gold Star! 💫
It cracks me up when people say the bible isn't true, yet many take other texts and run with them. People dismiss a book created over thousands of years and dismiss it out of hand. Jesus... a person who advocated for understanding... what's bad about that? Many look at other books and the people in them who advocated for understanding as hero's or deities. It comes across as a little pathetic that many of these same people dismiss the bible. What do you think?
Hi. It's really not all that tricky. People may "take other texts and run with them", but do they proclaim those texts to be the one eternal truth revealed by an omniscient being? Are people arguing against Jesus advocating understanding, or are they arguing against the idea that he was the son of God who was born of a virgin and rose from the dead?
You need to understand that all those there are atheist, Fry in particular is a very militant atheist, so obviously it's in their interest to jump on these things. Luke, was actually the real historian of the lot, it could be true it was trying to fit a prophecy, but ti could also be true, as has been shown many times, that it did indeed happen, they just haven't found the evidence.
"but ti could also be true, as has been shown many times, that it did indeed happen, they just haven't found the evidence" I don't understand this sentence. How can it have been shown as happening many times if there was no evidence?
@@chrisparti To explain, they said Pilate didn't exist, until they found the Pilate stone with the exact dates, likewise, it's possible some form of census did take place but has been lost in time.
@@markharvey1630 so not all a load of invented stories people claim. If that evidence that Pilate didn't in fact exist, people would still claim he didn't. It also shows the historic accuracy of the NT. So if Pilate and St Paul existed it seems utterly bizarre that the person it was written about didn't exits and the people in the vid knew for absolute certain that no census took place, when Luke the Historian, was a direct contemporary of Jesus, born 1 - 16 AD
In case you forgot, these two are teachers! If that doesn't scare you, you're probably American.
Them as can, do etc
I'm more willing to believe dragons existed than Noah fitting all those animals on an ark. 😜
not to mention that many, MANY people tried finding the ark following a translation error. Because of course the english bible must be correct....
Apparently the original doesn't say "Mount Ararat" but "among the mountains of Ararat", likely meaning Armenia. Taking the bible as literal source is silly enough for history, let alone physics... Than again, it is nonsense anyway, so how silly it is, doesn't really matter anymore.
I'd be willing to believe someone brought mating pairs of all the domesticated animals of the region to replenish following the flood but i'm still not sold on the whole, predicting the flood thing to make that happen, its probably an addition to explain tings inserted later on.
The flood myth is common throughout the babylon-india area so i reckon there was a great flood of either the tigris or euphrates at some point that someone (who probably already owned a boat) survived to tell a good story from but theres still too much in these myths, particularly the abrahamic version, to offer plausible explanation for.
And yes, china also has a great flood myth but given the history of their rivers, its not out of the question for that to have arisen independent of the babylonian one.
Particularly the woodpeckers!! Are they the reason it might have eventually sank?
You might think they are over thinking this, but you are under thinking it. 🤔
I think they missed the irony of the QI chat. It’s a bit uncomfortable hearing Americans talk about the bible. It’s like they think it’s true
It's uncomfortable listening to someone completely ignorant of the bible thinking they know something about the subject.
@@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9ooThe age old arguement, I know something you don’t, versus, no! I know something you don’t.
Irony is not the proper term
@@jonpon-r6w What word would you prefer? Satire?
@@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo I know it’s not real. I know human’s don’t come back from the dead. I know snakes don’t talk. I know people who believe in supernatural fairly tales, have no more rights to comment on the bible than I do.
It’s almost as if it’s all made up!
except all the archaeological evidence proving beyond doubt it isn't.
@ what have they found?
@@jamiewilson9280 A long-lost city that was written about in the bible was found to exist. In the same way as in two thousand years time, people will believe that "The Werewolf in London" was real because London actually existed 😂😂😂
@@zaftra Just like ghostbusters was real because there is a New York City. 🤔
@@jamiewilson9280
Jack shit!
Your coping do hard to make this fairy tale real. It’s really sad.
Your adult intelligent people. Desperately trying to make sense of nonsense.
That is the poison of religion
hearing believers try to explain inconsistencies in the bible is rather like listening to nerds explaining inconsistencies in the MCU.
I would have pick Star Trek, but you made your point.
Well, that was a curious watch. Love your reactions otherwise, folks, but there's a big cultural difference here. Never mind all of the non-religious people here in Britain, I don't think most British Christians would get so defensive about whether an Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled or not.
true, but in schools religion is even more forced on children in the UK than the US, where it has to legally stay out.
And the British are blistering unaware of that.
They then leave into a healthier, more logical environment, while for Americans it gets worse after school.
@@Thisandthat8908 I don't believe that. My kids went to my old school, one still does. And they don't do anything like what I had to do. We had to sing hymns in assembly, say prayers before we had our lunch, do the nativity. And the school wasn't a religious school, just a normal one. My kids never did any of that. They don't even sing Christmas carols anymore.
It's so mindblowing how many Americans believe in god's, why is that???
Because the church has a lot more influence in the states. Christianity is practically woven into the education system in many parts of the US.
About 40% of Americans think the world is about 6,000 years old.
Every aspect of British life culture and history is founded by the church especially science. It's only recently that atheism has come to the fore. Atheism has no achievements but is a positive product of English democracy and free will borne of western philosophy which are innately spiritual at their foundations.
God's what?
You're grasping there, because lineage back then was defined on the male line only. But also marriage back then also was not confirmed until consummated, so if Mary was Jospeh's wife she could not have been a virgin.
I seem to remember reading that Mary being thought of as a virgin is because of a mis-translation of the original texts which never claimed she was a virgin, they just described her as being a young woman.
Just think of the logistical problems involved if everyone in the Roman world (or even the Jewish part of it) had to return to their ancestral birthplace just to get registered. Everything would grind to a halt for months. And how would you prove who you were...just turning up somewhere you'd likely never been to before and had no immediate roots in? Photo ID? Complete cobblers.
Plus it's a matter of historical record that Herod the Great had been dead for 10 years by the time Quirinius was made governor of Syria (4 BCE and 6 CE respectively) so there goes the tale of the Magi popping in for a chat with him.
I'm sorry I want to be kind to you, but you said intellectualls over think it. That is absurd handwashing of you. Your implication is you underthink it. You are welcome to gain whatever comfort your faith gives you but when it clashes with known facts, it is wrong and you must face that. I find your reaction to the fact there was no census very, very depressing and sad.
I thikk that you are overthinking this bud.
Hi guys. It's good that you are reasonably open to the discussions around the Tora and the New Testament Bible versus. Remember, Mary was not referred to as the "Virgin Mary" until the late 300's AD. Many of these transcripts described Mary as being "a young woman" and the Hebrew word for "young Woman" being mis-translated as "Virgin".
Why would this happen, you might ask. Well because the Egyptian god Horus was also described as having been "born of a Virgin". (Apparently about at least 6 other "god claims" from other religions also claimed they were "born of virgins" so it was just yet another thing that "god claims" clung to. There are many things from the Egyptian gods that were plagarised by the early Christian biblical writers.
That's also why there are many stories, in multiple religions, particularly in the Old Testament, the Tora, that obviously came from other earlier religions eg the whole story of Noah's Ark comes from the Epic of Gildgermash that occurred hundreds of years before the Noah version by the Jews.
I'm not saying "gotch-a" here. They ALL stole/borrowed from each other. The Roman Catholic church, in particular, stole a lot of the religious trappings like Saints always having a circle around their heads when depicted in paintings and drawings, from Egypt. Plus, the robes and head gear worn by Bishops were a direct copy of Egyptian religious clothing.
This isn't true, 'The Protoevangelium of James', which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many states she was a virgin, you're confusing it with Perpetual virginity of Mary - In the 3rd century (200s) Hippolytus of Rome held that Mary was "ever-virgin".
I’ll add that Zoroaster whose vision from an angel disclosed to him that there was but one God, kicked off and was echoed by the other monotheistic religions.
I'm not disputing your argument but I think it is generally accepted that the Gospels were written in Greek, not Hebrew.
@@cliffordwaterton3543 Most definitely Greek was the 'Lingua franca' of the region.
@@AlBarzUK It was written down 309-379 AD and revised 531-579 AD, the problem is Avestan texts, the oldest of which dates to the 13th century AD, Jewish and Christian writings are much older.
So you say the academics are wrong & because you go to church & read a fiction story wrote a lot of years later, you’re correct. I’m not knocking you or anyone but just starting a conversation about what’s known to be true & what is told by people who lived at a later time through stories they’d been told were true. I can tell people a story based on anything & just 100yrs later the story will get embellished into a totally new one. The church is rich yet “Jesus’s” message was of poverty & help the needy. Seems like hypocrisy to me.
What I Like about Q I is it's Fact and carefully Checked. Always gives Reasoned Argument both sides of it .With a big dose of Comedy.
And years down the line if they get something wrong and new research appears they admit it ! Re: How many moons does the earth have !
@davidkettlewell I think they use Encyclopedia Britanica for the information I'm sure I Read some where. But could be wrong. But Steven Fry is Exstemely intelligent.
@@MaxwellMoore-d1u They have a full team of researchers called the Elves. They would unlikely to rely solely on one source !
@@davidkettlewell
Well, sometimes they did, their research has proven to be either very dodgy or not fully used in the show for comedic purpose, sometimes they even twist facts for the sake of that, they are certainly biased on a subject like this and jump on any chance to ridicule religion, which of course doesn't change the fact religion actually is ridiculous bs but you have to know where people are coming from.
@@DerEchteBold Proof?
Lets face it 'you' are NOT dependent on 'history', only the story inflicted on 'Christians' by powerful people ensuring their power is maintained.
Denial of the power usually meant death or torture!
By the way I have read the bible as a poorly written story book, and it still amazes me that people believe it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't mix up your bible stories with historical documents.
Do more religious stuff, this is hilarious! Can I suggest George Carlin - Religion is bullshit or Tim Minchin’s Thank You God?
Great suggestions.
I agree this was highly entertaining
I really thought these two were smart, what a shame 😞
Teachers... frightening, isn't it.
Don't watch them a lot do you.
It's just a story in a book...it's not true.
The Bible can't even agree on Joseph's lineage - the genealogies in Matthew and Luke align for only approximately seventeen names out of one hundred! And Bible apologists, as usual, jump through hoops to justify the contradictions.
Dragons do exist are used to be married to one😂 😂😂
We actually know an awful lot about censuses in the Roman Empire, because they were vital to the Roman taxation system and thus involved a great number of civil servants creating and maintaining some very detailed records - even by modern standards. The chronicles and annals of the period also frequently reference them to help with the dating of events (as later with the Constantinian system of the fifteen year fiscal cycle, or "indiction"). And, because most of the writers of these "histories" happened to be persons who held public offices, many had access to these records at the time that they were writing. Consequently we know that Luke was mistaken with his dating of the census, and most likely referred instead to the census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which prompted the Jewish revolt of Judas of Galilee. I do not believe that this interpretation is disputed by modern historians, or even by biblical scholars or the majority of Christian apologists. The biblical census never happened, it is an error in Luke's text.
The are 2 lineages mentioned for Jesus in the Bible, one in Mathew and one in Luke. They both go through Joseph to establish David as Jesus' ancestor. They are also completely different lineages. It has been argued that Luke has Mary's lineage ("Joseph, the son of Heli" is apparently referring to Josephs father-in-law, Mary's father Heli).
This doesn't address the fact that they have different lineages for David as well.
If this sounds like silly apologetics to attempt to gloss over the different authors making up different genealogies, that's because it is.
Dragon, Santa, Jesus. Which one visited England 😂
I don't know, but Joseph of Arimathea definitely did. He was there for the first Glastonbury festival.
All three
Oh ffs these people are not real
archaeology says otherwise.
@@zaftra
What archeology?
@@DerEchteBold the 200 years worth. For example, Pontius Pilate didn't exist, until they found the Pilate stone etc.
@@zaftraI think he was referring to the Boring Reviews people as “not real”. 🤗
@@zaftra
So?
😂😂 trying to consider if a story book about religion is “real” or not. You might as well consider the merits of fairie lore its about as useful
Theology is NOT history, it's religion.
Everyone in Europe can trace their lineage back to Charlemange. Once you get past a certain point it is kinda irrelevant...
As for scripture think how accurate it can be centuries after the quoted events? I suspect there is no accuracy at all, just interpretation of stories passed down verbally until someone wrote it down interpreting and framing it in the way they believe best expressed the story. Then each change of language and their doctrines and beliefs brings with it another benevolent interpretation.
Nasty Nick is terrifying.. when he pauses the videos I break out in a cold sweat.
Eye-opening! You guys are VI! Cheers guys and have a very Happy New Year!
There is no evidence to suggest that Mary and Josepth were related to King David. We don't even know if Mary and Josepth even existed!
I'm pretty sure St Nicholas pre dates the Ottoman Empire, which would make him a citizen of the Eastern Roman Empire
Actually just a citizen of the "Roman Empire" as he died in 343, pre-dating the division of the empire into East and West in 395.
@AJD09FB good to know 👍🏻
Or the fact that the Romans didn't have a garrison stationed in Jerusalem until at least 124 AD
I speak English. You also speak English. But we do not speak the same English. Thats how easy it is for the Bible to have tangible different interpretations or understandings, and to cause mystification between provable facts and speculative history.
Islam seems to have learned to not have the translation difficulties down the line by insisting their scriptures have to be read in the Arabic language for accuracy.
And yet they still have intersectional wars over differences in the Koran. It's almost like people will argue over the pettiest of things.
The sectarian wars are not over the Quran, all Muslims believe in the same Quran. The wars are political in nature, ie following I believe the 3rd ruler after the prophet (SAW), there was a disagreement who should take over the rulership. Some believe it should have stayed in the family of the prophet (SAW) - these being the Shia and they make up about 5-10% of Muslims, and the rest are Sunni.
In the Quran, Mary was a virgin, and Jesus (AS) was created without male intervention, showing God creating without male and female intervention (Adam) and without female intervention ( Eve). Also quite interestingly, the Quran states that Jesus (AS) miraculously spoke after Mary gave birth to him to defend her honor - because as per the Torah, the penalty for adultery/Californication was death by stoning….
I do agree that people will argue over the pettiest of things though
@@zk704
It's over the interpretations, isn't it?
And if something people take this serious is unclear, it's not worth anything, it's just dangerous.
Islam seems to have been created in a similar era to when New Testament books were being written, collected, and sometimes rejected. Part of Christianity’s problem is that the Bible wasn’t all in one language. Part of Islam’s problem is that the Q’ran was. Languages and cultures constantly evolve away from and obfuscating those ancient scriptures. Billions of people will not learn Aramaic, Greek, or Arabic, and those few who do are unable to disseminate their understandings and interpretations.
Language, geographical and historical context puts both out of reach for everyone who came before and nearly everyone who came after those writings.
IMHO
Talking about lineage and ancestry. If your ancestors can be traced back to around 9th or 10th Century Europe you are probably a descendent of Emperor Charlemagne of the Franks. Belgium, Germany!
Jodie is such a babe, remember how lucky you are Nick 👌
I want to say...I want to say. Howay man, it's fairy stories. Grow up.
Bethlehem is in Palestine not Israel. Not a political statement, just fact.
Merry Xmas - thanks for your fun content 2024 😊
There ware many books who are rejected for different reason, Book of Eli, half of Book of Paul, They found pieces of Matheus and Judas that Jesus ask to Judas to Betray him so he can forgive our Sins [not yet knowing he must die for it],
piecer of Genesis are taken out of the Bible because people were nor ready for it and wouldn't understand.
[from a German Theolog from the Vatican]
stephens point was pedantic but then that is the basis of QI.
You state you are not an intellectual. I think it's safe to assume we all realize this. I gather you are a teacher, indeed a primary teacher. In the UK teachers just about classified as professionals workers. As for primary teachers glorified child-minders!
Just in case, you do know Hogwarts is not real?
The thing with Biblical teachings is that you are only told what they want you to believe and leave out anything that might turn you away from religion.
For instance, Mary was married to Joseph between the ages of 9 and 13 and gave birth to Jesus not long after that.
Or that Adam had two wives and the first being Lilith who was created at the same time as Adam. Hence why Man and Woman are created at the same time in Genesis 1 but Eve is created in Genesis 2.
But Lilith had a mind of her own, so was declared a demon
@MillerWright-mb1ob So are you saying God is Fallible and made a mistake?
Nick is desperate for my name to pop up on his app.
I t wasn't the place of Joseph's birth but the birthplace of his ancestors, which makes even less sense. Jesus was a Nazareth lad, born & raised.
Archaeology filled in the time period when David was supposed to be king. There never was a king David. Obviously there was not a Jesus either.
Whether or not you agree with him, Stephen Fry is a vehement atheist. He has been interviewed several times on the matter and tends to come across as sneering at Christians - and other religions.
I've not seen his reaction if/when someone who really knows the Bible opposes his views.
Matthew wrote that St Mary is related to king David. Theirs a few good gospel that are not in the main Catholic Bible. The protestants removed 7 books out the old Testament. They're mentioned 24 lost books of the Bible.. A few certain Gnotics believers that the book of Enoch, the gospel of Peter, are important. .. Some not not listed are. the gospels of Mary Magdalene , judas and Thomas( different from the " infancy Gospel of Thomas.") . Also the Dead Sea Scrolls are not in the Catholic Bible. The Ethiopian Bible is different in many ways. Even the Greek/East Orthodox bible. India have a complete different view of Jesus. And of course. Islam. Merry Christmas. Ho. Ho. Ho. 🎉🎅🤶🎄
Probably not your finest choice of recording to react to.
One of the issues I have with their objections against the census etc are based on a lack of understanding of customs, culture geopolitical landsape etc of that period. None of them quoted and creditable sources etc.
We actually know an awful lot about censuses in the Roman Empire, because they were vital to the Roman taxation system and thus involved a great number of civil servants creating some very detailed records - even by modern standards. The chronicles and annals of the period also frequently reference them to help with the dating of events (as later with the Constantinian system of the fifteen year fiscal cycle, or "indiction", being used to date events). And, because most of the writers of these "histories" happened to be persons who held public offices, many had access to these records. Consequently we know that Luke was mistaken with his dating of the census, and most likely referred instead to the census of Quirinius in 6 CE, which prompted the Jewish revolt of Judas of Galilee. I do not believe that this interpretation is disputed by modern historians, or even by biblical scholars or the majority of Christian apologists. The biblical census never happened, it is an error in Luke's text.
I never, ever comment but feel totally compelled to say - Nick, please let Jodie move to Scotland with her 'friend' while you brainwash the kids with bible nonsense.
And which church has made you appear 'scary' to schoolkids?
Probably Mormon but correct me if I'm wrong... lol.
Americans 🤣
Yes, the gospel of Luke traces Mary’s lineage to David , Jacob, Isaac, Abraham all the way back to Adam!!! The whole earth are descendants of Noah’s sons!!!
No Marie wasn't related to Jospeh. He was however 90 and she was 12 when they married, so perfect that God got her knocked up. Or it would have been one less thing Christians can moan about Islam over. But in a larger sense they must be related if we all come from Adam and Eve.
Nick you are probably right. Stephen doesn't know everything and it isn't his faith by birth....not sure of his current stance. We all assume Stephen's words are gospel due to all the stuff we have heard him spout from the cards he has. Good work being a smarty pants!
That, Nick, was "Quite Interesting".
Great work, and the only appropriate reward is a.....?
Gold Star!
💫
I make you right. Both Mary and Joseph were of royal houses. They had to be for their son to be described as a 'Messiah'
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
It cracks me up when people say the bible isn't true, yet many take other texts and run with them.
People dismiss a book created over thousands of years and dismiss it out of hand. Jesus... a person who advocated for understanding... what's bad about that? Many look at other books and the people in them who advocated for understanding as hero's or deities. It comes across as a little pathetic that many of these same people dismiss the bible. What do you think?
Hi. It's really not all that tricky. People may "take other texts and run with them", but do they proclaim those texts to be the one eternal truth revealed by an omniscient being? Are people arguing against Jesus advocating understanding, or are they arguing against the idea that he was the son of God who was born of a virgin and rose from the dead?
Heathens in the comments
And proud of it.
You need to understand that all those there are atheist, Fry in particular is a very militant atheist, so obviously it's in their interest to jump on these things. Luke, was actually the real historian of the lot, it could be true it was trying to fit a prophecy, but ti could also be true, as has been shown many times, that it did indeed happen, they just haven't found the evidence.
"but ti could also be true, as has been shown many times, that it did indeed happen, they just haven't found the evidence" I don't understand this sentence. How can it have been shown as happening many times if there was no evidence?
@@chrisparti To explain, they said Pilate didn't exist, until they found the Pilate stone with the exact dates, likewise, it's possible some form of census did take place but has been lost in time.
@@zaftra
Those straws won't hold your weight, can't you see that?!
@@zaftra No one said Pilate didn't exist.
@@markharvey1630 so not all a load of invented stories people claim. If that evidence that Pilate didn't in fact exist, people would still claim he didn't. It also shows the historic accuracy of the NT. So if Pilate and St Paul existed it seems utterly bizarre that the person it was written about didn't exits and the people in the vid knew for absolute certain that no census took place, when Luke the Historian, was a direct contemporary of Jesus, born 1 - 16 AD