The Video Game Industry is in Crisis with Jason Schreier - 283
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- The video game industry is raking in more money than ever, but it's also in complete crisis. In the past couple of years, we've seen countless development studios shuttered and tens of thousands of workers laid off, all while the cost of making and buying games keeps skyrocketing. How did one of the world's most successful industries end up in such a state of instability? This week, Adam sits down with Jason Schreier, a Bloomberg reporter covering the video game industry and author of Play Nice: The Rise, Fall, and Future of Blizzard Entertainment, to break it all down. Find Jason's book at factuallypod.com/books
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Greed ruins everything. Friggin micro-transactions.
For real! This comment pretty much sums up the state of the world right now
The vast majority of games don't have micro-transactions or even DLC. You normally find it in free-to-play games , which exist due to a combination of gamers not wanting to pay for anything and the creation of mobile gaming. We can point fingers all we want on how greedy any specific group involved is, but it is a holistic issue.
@@aprotosis "Vast majority" is misleading here, or at least unhelpful. Thousands of games come out every year. Most people will play fewer than 10 new games per year. Most of that attention will go towards two markets, free-to-play predatory games and big budget "AAA" predatory games. Both of which heavily trend towards including micro-transactions. That's why the micro-transactions are there. Because those are the sorts of games most people are likely to play. That's where the money is so that's where the most predatory behavior is found.
To reveal the counter-argument to this comment, buy one comment-reveal-charge for only $0.99
Unregulated capitalism. Shareholders MUST make all the money, in the world, right now....everyday
You mean the only reason the games exist?
😂
@@DionTalkFinancialFreedom Video games existed long before megacorporations formed by serial acquisitions, but please do go on about how much we NEED to suckle on that corporate teat...
I want them to have it all, let's just give them everything. At that point they have no hold over us and we can start over. Bonus is all their wealth will be worthless in our new thing. 😊
@DionTalkFinancialFreedom My desire to create video games is not driven by a desire to obtain capital. But under capitalism I'm forced to be concerned about sales to survive, which means I may have to put in unpopular monetization methods just to be able to make another game.
All critiques about predatory monetization practices and uninspired annualized sequels and unfinished rushed products are the result of capitalism working as intended.
Support Indie games people
If they’re good
Completely agree, but I’m also not sure indie games are the way forward, saying this as someone who buys hundreds of indies a year. There will always be demand for boundary-pushing games on a larger scale and we have to make an environment where the people who develop those can work sustainably and live a life of dignity.
@@jackal27 100%
UNDERRAIL BEST GAME EVER
I basically only play Indies (outside of Nintendo).
I audibly gasped when I saw Jason Schreier.
He's such a great journalist on this topic and has to deal with an insane amount of harassment and bullshit because of it.
Cmdr. Sterling has long said (and I’m paraphrasing) “it’s not enough for them to make some of the money. It’s not enough for them to make a lot of the money. They aren’t content unless they’ll make all of the money that exists and ever will exist for all time.”
1. Games have taken a "too big to fail" aproach where companies turn games into massive investments and shotgun out multiple per year.
2. Studios have been working around criteria that appeal to the investors but most players don't care about; leading to poor sales and declining audience faith.
3. Industry culture shifts away from consumer sentiment as a feedback loop between executives and access-journalism efforts lead to projects losing their direction to toxic positivity or financial interests.
What actually ruining games not some wokeness or feminism agenda by people whi are derange ad Trump blaming everything on immigrants
And lets be honest most MC characters are while males very few are women and non whites and its werid that half aren't females and werid that in a diverse country like US non white are rare that being even said even in a mostly Korean or Japanese it good to sometimes have storie around a black person as it give interesting story or something that the mostly japanese or Polish people aren't going to have
I'd love to see Adam Conover have a discussion with Stephanie Stirling, if only to see where it goes.
Jason Schreier is a great journalist, but these recent podcast appearances made me appreciate that he is also a really great storyteller.
never have I ever seen an ffrf ad. I am glad you allowed them to advertise.
That fan that was at a conference for Diablo's new game with Microtransactions and warned everyone this was wrong still echoes in my head
This is far from the first time that the gaming industry has self-destructed. There was the 97% contraction in 1983 that aggressively mirrors what is going on today. Executives thinking that the industry exists to print money for as little effort as is possible (See EA sports games) while dispising their customer base (Ubisoft is openly hostile to their customer base,) while ignoring critique about their extremely low effort recent games (Bethesda) will always lead to the same outcome a gigantic contraction because what is being produced by "The large industry leaders" is effectively garbage.
yea and nintendo is the only company that learned anything from that.
@@Malekariel Eeehhh no, Nintendo learned the Disney model of "If you're big you can sue your competition into the ground." I am not touching the internal work/life balance at Nintendo either as it's pretty nightmarish due to Japanese business practices operate, aka "Heaven for superstar geniuses with no social lives, an abject hell for normal people just trying to get by."
I find it funny that Nintendo is doing well just by being commited to making good games and treating their employees well. As someone who has studied them they really don't have any secret sauce like other game companies will claim, just company wide raises and prioritizing fun gameplay over fancy tech.
Cannot agree more. It tracks across other industries as well. If you prioritize employee happiness, you unsurprisingly get greater employee loyalty, harder workers, more institutional knowledge, and overall better outcomes for the consumer.
Something else to bear in mind is that in Japan, there is a different legal framework on how companies are run. That is one reason why Sony shifted from being Japanese to being US led.
If Nintendo just wasn't so damn litigious in really stupid ways they would be basically perfect and a shining example of what gaming companies could be. But yeah, they 100% get the simple point that if you make good games, people will buy them. You just have to take the time to make quality games that people want to play and you will just naturally be successful. I love how they've embraced indie games and physical games as well.
Nintendo treats their employees really well but their customers and fans like dog shit
Sony Japan is dramatically different than the US version.
Nintendo doesn't chase trends it does it's own thing and focuses on quality rather than short term profit. Seems to work.
They're suehappy and shitty in plenty of other ways. While the games may be fun, everything surrounding it is pretty garbage
Adam really seems to keep up. Usually content creators that call themselves gamers just pose as ones. I get why Jason enjoys the interview so much.
I think the company that most exemplifies the current crisis is GameFreak. Thee people working there are clearly very talented and care a lot about the product (they wouldn't have such good character designs and music otherwise), but since the executives impose a strict 3 year cycle on games with such massive scope they really cant do much better than releasing deeply unpolished games.
As someone getting a degree in game design, this definitely has me worried right now
Think it might be safer for me to just go into teaching game design instead of trying to get a job in the industry.
Sell shovels during a gold rush right?
I'm trying to get a job in tech outside of games to gain skills and experience adjacent to games and then switch to the games industry after showing my skills in development
@@candygonemad not a bad plan. Though I’m not sure if you’ll end up going back. From what I’ve heard tech is pretty stable and pays better.
@@justinbuergi9867 yeah it for sure is, but my heart is with games. In the meantime I'm working with some friends on an indie game and already released one last year, so I'm still getting some of my passion exercised
@@candygonemad congrats! I do a few jams a year but haven’t had the time for a more long term project.
One of the big reasons why the MS Act-Blizz merger has gone so badly is that the negotiations took a LOT of time, and for the entirety of that time, Act-Blizz execs were stripping all the lead out of the roofing.
Game franchises like Overwatch and Diablo changed monetization and design to squeeze players for every cent they could get, squandering good will and bleeding players to make as much short term profit as possible. This had the dual effects of inflating the balance sheets (making the company look more valuable) while hitting long-term sustainability.
The video games industry SHOULD have looked at film and TV and learned from the many mistakes that have happened over the 100 years of that industry
Instead, they made every mistake, and in some ways made them WORSE
To expand on the question at 1:26:08: The thing is that capitalism isn't designed for sustainable growth for its own sake, it is designed to increase the wealth -- the *capital* -- of the person or people who already have capital. Giving your workers any kind of a stake may help the company as a whole, but it reduces the owner's control and their own profits.
Really great insightful conversation 🤘
Yay, Adam and Jason, cool set up !
I tried to check my library and couldn't get it. Might just buy the book
At this point I'm not going to be surprised when I see Jason on ESPN
The collaboration we all needed.
The nintendo switch is an amazing console. Portable, but capable of bigger Tv games, so easy to add couch co-op and multiplayer, tons of amazing games. Everything the PS Vita was suppose to be.
This ep coming out the same day Riot announces a second wave of layouts this year😢
Thank you for talking about this!!!
Just to note, Japan has stricter employee protections than the US. In Japan, businesses are required to exhaust other methods before laying off employees. Layoffs in Japan are treated as a last resort. Nintendo does what is within the respect of each region's labor laws. So if you want similar laws in the US, then we need to get our representatives to pass laws that have more employee protections.
Getting hired is also harder for that same reason. There's much more commitment from both employee and employer.
Looking forward to this. Let me know if you want to talk about the games industry and environmental sustainability!
We are writing a book about it and the political economy of the industry as big tech is a huge issue that is super hard to address.
0:50 Happening all over the tech sector. Every time the company I work for gets bought, I clench just a little bit tighter. The fact that the end goal for many businesses is just to be bought out by the big three is indicative of a larger problem.
Holy shit, Jason Schrier here? You love to see it!
It's really sad seeing these companies trying to screw over voice actors by forcing AI.
Are there any industries which *aren't* in crisis at this point?
Apple and oranges. Video games, and tech more broadly, are experiencing a lot of layoffs and have been for three years now
Capitalism is a system which engenders crises.
A system which demands infinite growth cannot achieve stability in a market with limited resources. All industry will reach points of crisis in this system, collapse and then restructure. Assuming the collapse is not so great that demand drops to zero.
The real question is, why do we tolerate a system which is guaranteed to produce failure and instability and destitution as a normal part of its function?
The INDUSTRY is not remotely in crisis - just a dozen AAA studios at the top who got greedy, monopolistic, and lazy. There are thousands of indies who are doing a fantastic job producing EXACTLY the kind of games I love at a fair price without trying to exploit me.
We’re talking about mass market, not connoisseurs
@TH-camChannel-iq5to it's so ironic that mass market top aaa slop is way more expensive than "connoisseur" (really?) indie games
People widely don’t play indie games. They are just under a third of game sales on Steam. Most indie games are shovelware trash.
@@brandongers Most AAA games are trash.
@@GRNKRBY maybe you should pick better games…
jason suggests borrowing the book from a library, just as i see a notification that the copy i ordered arrived at one of the other libraries :D
I tried to get into the industry, because I've been making games for most of my life, and have a few finished projects under my belt. Couldn't even get an interview for things I have been doing for decades now. It was horrid. I've went indie, and am working on my own thing instead. I'm making the same amount of money doing it than I did looking for a job, and I actually have something to show for all that work, unlike the job hunt
I’m still mourning the loss of Tango Gameworks.
Apparently winning a Bafta for Hi-Fi Rush wasn’t enough to save them despite executives stating they want games that win awards.
I've been looking forward to that book so I'm glad I get to see this interview.
I don't know why the industry has so many problems, I just know the indie and small developers are really starting to blow so called AAA developers out of the water in quality.
Not a gamer here but very good to hear what goes on as it provides context to many aspects of our would today.
"Let's all laugh at an industry, that never learns anything. Tee hee hee" Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw
In today's world you pay 70$ for a game and then once you buy it, you have to pay 20$ more for the ending.
Wrong!
Name one game where you have to pay for the ending…
@@brandongersdiablo 4
@@brandongers That's basically every game with an expansion pack tbh. They give you part now and you pay for the rest later.
Even in fighting games... pay $70 for the game and then pay for the rest of the cast.
@@nateolison7553 I suppose as long as we consider it the same thing when you watch a new season of a tv show or a movie sequel. How dare they not include the whole story in the original offering!
Having worked at a couple small-mid sized studios, the one that got acquired it definitely had the stabilizing influence described. It really is a tradeoff -- corporate feedback on which games we made was definitely annoying, but at the actually indie dev I worked for, you still had to shop anything bigger around to publishers, and so you don't ever really escape the BS. And then once you're independently wealthy, you just bring your own BS!
The fact this dropped the day after Riot Games just layed off a bunch of employees just highlighted the issues in the industry even more
Nintendo still has some shitty business practices, tho they and indie devs are modest and consistent. Shows it ain’t just about the best graphics and specs, but actually fun and great design.
The thing that happened with Overwatch LEAGUE happened with NBA 2K League too
P2W ruined the greatest MMORPG ever, RIFT. The first few years of RIFT were glorious, the most fun I've ever had playing any video game since I first began in 1985...and then the microtransactions began. It caused all the really serious, dedicated players who really love the game to lose interest and move on, and before long they were only two player types, the whales who could afford the P2W content that followed, or noobs who had not yet realized that they needed to either start coughing up the $$$ or find another game to play.
Whoever acquires the rights to re-release Def Jam Fight for NY and NFL Street 2 will take over the gaming world overnight
Nintendo has been awful recently with software patents and suing smaller competitors like PalWorld.
Jason: "Gambling tip, bet on the Broncos"
Damn, a videogame AND sports reporter
Thank you for pointing out the nerd testosterone point.
Damn, you should have The Act Man on next to talk about video games again. I think it would be really cool.
Monster Hunter Wilds will save us 🫡
I saw you last night at the Sweat tour!
what killed consoles for me is the getting rid of splitscreen. that was the best reason for owning a console, you could play at home with your friends on the couch. no teamspeak, discord, whatever extra. just meet your friends on the couch. play a bit and then do something else. socializing in real life is worth more.
I know what Jason is saying at 30:00. But I don't know. Maybe it was good for Blizzard at first that they were able to become an empire thanks to the initial corporate buyouts. But maybe it was bad for everyone else. Maybe Warcraft 2 was good enough, and we could have gotten stuff equivalent to Diablo or Starcraft from other indie companies, which would then be replaced by other small indie companies. Maybe it's fine for a company to exist only as long as its main game and then just dissolve and have the devs join some other ephemeral company.
I am tired of empires.
You're welcome for sitting through your Balatro talk XD
The big stupid console problem isn't new but hitting a critical mass. As early as the ps3 graphics were plateauing while prices were getting derision and exclusives were drying up.
As someone who got to work with the Concord team for a few years, I knew it was going to be mentioned as soon as I read the title. Nice to know that I got to work on a piece of history, even it it became a dumpster fire.
FWIW: I wasn't a developer, just provided central services support.
Damn. I feel like this is John Oliver being one day late for the breaking bear news all over again.
Hearthstone’s biggest sin is rotating cards out of Standard and then selling them back to you in a slightly different form years later while Wild turns into an unstable garbage heap of black holes and nuclear weapons.
GodForge by Fateless games is going to be awesome.
Hey, did this guy write a book? Wish they would mention it.
The issue, as usual, appears to be consultants. The ones that were successful in mobile and tried to pivot to AAA console games (not the “woke” ones that manchildren always complain about)
Every single studio that has employed diversity hires fails. It's not a coincidence, it's because they hire inferior employees.
I like the idea of an expensive game being a game I can work on for like a decade at my own pace and own forever--but owning it forever and having forever to play it is the key point. Plus, every game being like that, a giant meandering world full of that in every single game for a high price, is kind of overwhelming and annoying. You need a little bit of everything.
And also an art style that matches and matters. Not just so many polygons you might as well have rotoscoped this or made a live action movie. Give me a game that I own, not a tech demo I get to taste until it disappears from history forever after a year.
Do you think the industry will have another E.T. Moment, or has it already happened?
There is a gaming crisis and isn't AA new AAA studios like hoyoverse epicgames are doing numbers and indie games a thriving with unique amazing games meanwhile AAA company's are dying Ubisoft is looking to be sold after massive boring failures Sony with concord and there concole being to exspensive Xbox is looking to exit the concole market all together with a failed activion blizzard purchase they layed off half the studio after lying to the union Rockstedy suicide game was so bad that Warner games is looking to get spinoff the company
Pulled my black ops pre-order
Games design by board rooms and micro transactions that run like garbage are ruining the industry. The suits fire the very people that tell them they are making crap. As a gamer from the first quarter dropped in a pinball machine before an atari existed, I have never seen such garbage pushed on the public by the high-end publishers. So sad.
Looking at UFO50 releasing recently, it's incredible what you can accomplish by taking a small team with good ideas, and making sure they have the funds to realize them.
AAA games are stagnating because they keep making the same games over and over, the execs see what's trending, make a plan to copy those ideas, then five or ten years later release something that everyone's tired of. The money spent on big AAA projects like concord could fund fifty small indie teams to really explore their ideas, and if only 10% of them were successful, you'd be making money, without the risks of a multi-million dollar boom and bust cycle.
I can’t elaborate but I’m pretty certain Concord was very disorganized behind the scenes
29:42 I love him so much! 😂
as someone who plays on pc, ps5, and switch I don't agree with steam being cheaper it's about the same their sales don't go as deep as they use to so I think it's whether you want the high end pc experience or the ability to easier go to the couch!
All "AAAA" games needs rubber doll facial animation now. Cyberpunk, Starfield, Baldurs gate
Which costs enormous money to make, uses whole graphic card power, all animation are made by actual famous actors, any mistake in that super complex geometry would crash your game.
If only they would film those famous actors and show a real movie as a cutscenes, it would look better, it would be cheaper, it would be faster, it wont crash your game. But no, they NEED to make it all in 3D
Every time they try that, no one buys the game.
Adam please talk about the Kroger Albertson's merger
Sad to see Jason bring up anti-Lina Khan talking points like like accusing the FTC of being incompetent and suggesting a better argument could have prevailed. But I guess you pick up a lot of anti-khanism when working at a place like bloomberg. FTC is extremely limited in the sort of arguments it can make. "They are going to fire a bunch of people and cancel a bunch of games" isn't enough. You have to prove it will negatively affect consumers. The court didn't even buy 38% of PS owners losing access to call of duty as a large enough chunk of consumers to warrant attention.
Have you ever considered people might just have different, yet equally valid opinions to you?
@@bigpurplepops Isn't that whole post in consideration of the opinion? Besides, something can be valid without being correct, or even germane.
Worth noting that the judge for the initial case was literally the mother of a Microsoft exec. They could have brought in live footage of Phil Spencer saying he wants to murder anyone who purchases a Playstation and sell their organs and the FTC still would have lost. Microsoft has been getting their ass reamed in the appeal because they've gone back on every single fake promise they made and this judge doesn't have a kid on payroll. If it gets worse they could have to break up or take it to the supreme court.
Schreier is a good reporter but a terrible journalist, he's too much of an egotist to admit that maybe his position at Bloomberg might color his perceptions a little bit because it'd be admitting he might have any culpability in anything bad that has ever happened ever and his fragile, inflated sense of self cannot handle even the slightest dent. You cannot trust the opinions of people who namesearch on Twitter, period.
Cool show ever
How about banning stock buybacks?
Yeah, I mean I’m gonna listen to this whole thing but before I get into it, the main reason people have stopped playing video games because almost everyone cheats at this point. In first person shooters in racing games. I mean single player games are better than most multiplayer games at this point.
The video game version of "and mayhem started": Robert Kottick arrived.
Sports version : Robert Kraft
The Ronald Reagans of the early 21st century, the rich old a-holes to ruin it for everyone else
Enshitification and falling rate of profit issue all over every industry
RIP Arcane. Pray for Prey :S
Greed ruins everything.
I wish games focused more on replayability over length.I think that is why rogue likes got as over done as they were. I feel like the market has shown there is a desire for well made smaller titles like resident evil that averages around 6-10 hours per game but have a lot of replay value if you want to get more out of the game. The idea of even replaying an 80 hour experience isn't that appealing to me so long games are starting to turn me off these days.
Next time talk with Ross Scott (from the YT channel "Accursed Farms") about how companies destroy videogames with the business practice of live-service.
Shoutout to my fellow Triple Click fans!!
Nintendo and other devs on the system have been keeping games at a smaller scale and scope. Announcing them no more than 6 months (with some exceptions) before release, sometimes the very day they're announced! Yes, it's been mostly remasters and collections but it's the console for indies too. Sony and Microsoft have a monopoly on hyper-realistic AAA games -- just there's the mobile microtransaction infection where most announcements are vaporware or live service games no one asked for. We get a few good singleplayer gems though, just the practice of announcing a game and wait 9 years (Square, Bethesda) doesn't sit right with us.
Yo Prism! Let's go
Balatro does rule though
Isn't he the same journalist who 5 yrs ago lashed out at the youtubers for criticising micro transactions, funny now he thinks micro transaction are a problem.
The "industry" is sick and eats its young. In my opinion the parts that need to die are dying, and we'll be left with indie, VR indie, and possibly AAA VR with a sprinkle of small to midsized game companies that actually care to listen to their customers and give them what they want in regard to console and PC gaming, and not forced identity politics.
Imagine going to see a movie and it is half finished.
Do you honestly think the complexity is in any way similar?
I have mixed feelings about Mr. Schreier and his work.
On one hand, he is one of the best gaming/investigative journo out there. on other he is a jerk
Yay! A new Adam video!
Always wondered who's buying la croix, it's Adam!
Nintendo was…jkjk but rip that hacker.
Corporate greed through paid dlcs
My two goats together!!!
You're surprised by Blizzard and Bethesda being turned into cash cows. I point you over to SubLogic and their Flight Simulator where today, when you buy Microsoft's Flight Simulator today you get a handful of planes, an airport or two, and EVERYTHING ELSE is available for $$$ a pop. But nobody cared about SubLogic or Flight Simulator so you all act surprised when you find out that it is the Microsoft method.
Promotion at Microsoft is based on how much $$$ you bring in, NOT on artistic ability. You buy a studio that wants to sell out, get revenue from their IP's residuals, then eventually bury it until the IP either expires or a resurgence occurs and renew the copyright.
You're welcome =)
Hey weren't monopolys illegal at one point?
Yep. And Ronald Reagan decided that was stupid
@@AlexP-dz7ew
Is Ronald Reagan still alive?