Jerome is so good. Such a pro. I am always impressed and want to hear more. Keep your eye on him all you flood geologists; he will make important discoveries in his time.
Makes me wonder about the Gangplank north of the Denver Basin. Denver Basin cut by the South Platte and is Cache la Poudre part of the north side? Is the Gangplank an outwash terrace from the Rockies?
What a great video , kudos Nick and Jerome. Jerome like you Nick is a great teacher and has a talent for info delivery, always very interesting/entertaining!! The lidar maps are such a treat!!
Lake Missoula was a 'perfect storm' arrangement where one of the south-moving tongues of ice (Purcell lobe) crossed and blocked a west-flowing river, (the Clark Fork of the Columbia). But you don't have that same geometry in the Okanagan/Okanogon. Here, you have south-flowing rivers, and south-flowing ice lobes. So it's hard to construct a way to have one intercept and block the other to impound a large lake which will eventually breach and contribute to the erosion seen in Washington. Perhaps a fast-moving ice tongue from a side valley blocked drainage as the main Okanagan tongue receded northwards. But 'Where's the Lake?' is my question. No remnant shorelines. No lacustrine clay, no varves. No dropstones. So we have to go with sub-glacial flow which doesn't leave much evidence. The new mega-ripples shown on Lidar are compelling...but could they have been formed by an unusually rapid period of glacial melt which filled the valley with deep runoff?
Jerome is fantastic at describing this landscape! Like we're standing there watching the floods at the end of the Ice Age. Thanks for getting Jerome back on camera Nick!
Wonderful video! I have lived in Omak all my life and as I get older, I am more and more interested in the geology of my surroundings, our state and the PNW abroad. I find gratitude in finding your older videos on CWU's TH-cam and your teachings here on your personal TH-cam. Thanks to you and Jerome for igniting theories, connections and energies into this area of the world.
Does Jerome really have a right-hand drive car? At first I thought you had your iphone camera settings set to 'mirror.' But the printing on the maps is not reversed.
Yes, it looks to be a RHD Japanese-market Mitsubishi Delica. Canadian import laws are a little more lax than US ones, allowing imports of foreign market cars 15+ years old while here in the states it is 25+ years old. As a result, it isn't too uncommon to see Japanese market imports in Canada since they can get somewhat newer stuff.
On a few occasions I had opportunity to drive a right-hand drive minivan from the U.K. in Norway where of course they drive on the right-hand side of the road. It was….a challenge to the brain, to say the least.
Definitely a geologically diverse area. Quite familiar with Tunk Mtn area up into Aeneas Valley. Also familiar with the area due east of Riverside up Johnson Creek Rd/Riverside Cutoff Rd., where if one takes the first dirt road north (to the right) about 1 mile east of Hwy 97 is an area known as the Lime Belt where Albtight cave, situate on Cave Mtn., largest limestone cave in Washington. Personally been down to very bottom of the cave and could feel a cool breeze coming up from the progressively narrowing passage. Many people are not aware that Albright Cave has two cave entrances. Just north of Riverside, where Hwy 97 crosses the Okanogan River, a.ka., Janus Bridge, take the dirt road that goes up to McLoughlin Canyon and there is an extense cave system that i am personally quite familiar with known as McLoughlin Caves. This is one of the largest cave systems of Washington state. It is essentially a mountain that is fractured in criss-cross fashion with numerous interconnected passages with some impreesive size rooms, extremely narrow passageways that drop several hundred feet down that requires climbing gear. If you find a large manilla rope that goes down a steep passage it was left there by me and two rock climbing buddies one day back in early 1990s. See, Caves of Washington, by William R. Halliday. Albright Cave @ p. 40; McLoughlin Cave @ p. 43. ger_ic40_caves_of_wa.pdf
Can't get into edit my comment to make correction that Johnson Creek/ Riverside Cutoff Rd is not east, but west of Riverside. The Lime Belt /Cave Mtn area is also accessible by heading north up Hwy 97 about 6 mi. to South Pine Creek Rd., head towards Fish Lake.
Thanks for the rope! My buddy and I made it to a rope but didnt trust it. We brought back our own and my buddy dropped 20 feet or so and could tell it went a lot deeper. We didnt have any climbing experience so we turned back. Good times! That was 2001-2002. Amazing mountain! We heard rumor, maybe even found an old newspaper article saying another entrance across the river was dynamited. We were looking for the stash of guns hidden there by outlaws!!
Wow, that was really interesting, thanks Nick and Jerome. Lidar is so cool. Even I knew immediately what those ripples were as soon as i saw the pic. it reminds me of why I enjoy B/W photography in that... when you remove the color you are more free to see the form. Lidar removes all the stuff that clutters up the picture so you can see the shape of what's really there.
Tunk creek is where my Grandpa found the Thulite I gave Nick. I think you might find more ripples in Horse Springs Coulee north of Aeneas lake by Tonasket. We found mussel shells in terraces around Tonasket, clearly the ice had melted enough to allow feed for them for a time and that the benches were probably shores of a river lake. When the ice came back it drove the river up and over the area south of Janis bridge which eroded and allowed the lake to drain? The river, for a time, looks like it followed Hwy 97 down the higher valley of Crumbacher lake prior to the drainage opened up south of Janis bridge.
The Similkameen River has always provided way more water flow than the Okanogan and it used to flow through the Spectacle lake valley. I suppose it's possible that it even went south past Blue lake into fish lake, then into either the Conconully, the Crumbacher lake area or both.
I've always thought the same. No geologist, just a local. Both those valleys (spectacle n blue) are deeper and wider than the current water could form. Some may be from flooding coming down Toats coulee, but it seems more water volume and time than Toats would provide. Similkameen is a good explanation, especially since it flows that direction through Palmer lake during flood stage.
@@thomashart1560 I thought about this a bit more and decided that the east side of the coast range Canadian cascades would have always provided way more runoff than the the inland mountains around the Okanagan, draining all the water east of the Fraiser. The square mileage of drainage would have been huge. The backed up Columbia drainage probably fed into either the Okanagan and/or the Similkameen as well adding even more water. All the benches in the US Okanogan and south down to Wenatchee could have come from the two rivers together.
Lidar is a useful tool. I'd hoped for more about the talks with Jerome about subglacial water discharge from Canada into the US Okanogan. Here we go! Stay tuned. Thank you Nick and Jerome!
Great outing, guys! Hope you can do more! If you're near Omak, try getting out to "Balancing Rock" near Omak lake. Very cool huge erratic balancing on a smaller rock... The landscape and lidar images of the Columbia river channel from Kettle Falls to the Spokane River look a lot like what you've explored there in the Okanagan. Lots of benches full of rounded river cobble. We even have a huge gravel pit full of river cobbles on the summit of Addy-Gifford road at 2800 ft. Exciting stuff! And don't forget to check out the erratic boulder fields east of Curlew! No other site like it!
The effect of heavy snow falls during the Ice Age reached far south of the ice sheet terminations in the northern states of the lower forty-eight, producing glazier cut valleys where no glaziers have existed for thousands of years. I imagine the ice sheets, as they progressed south, over topped mountains and glazier filled valleys, filling in the valleys and then sliding over the top to fill in the next valley, and so on. As the ice sheets receded (they were still moving south, just melting back faster than their southward movement) leaving great depths of ice in those valleys. Eventually exposure of mountain peaks collecting solar heat and rising temperatures could cause melting, water ponding and cutting through mountain peaks thousands of feet above the current valley floors. Alluvial fans, bench's, flats and such could form high on the sides of a glazier filled valley.
That is a good point, heavy snowfalls may have produced local glaciers, after all a glacier apparently exists in Mt. St. Helens's crater now, it doesn't take long.
I think i saw your Mitisbishi Van Near Enderby Last week? At Eby Hand Launch for the Shuswap river...i ve lived here since 1969, luv Nicks Vids and both ur guys expertise, im a hobby Geologist, i have some cool spots i visit often near here. Many questions unanswered about my area,( great divide, Fraser/ Columbia river systems , Enderby Cliffs, Mabel Lake Glacial Eratics etc etc )
The large flat thats was eroded to create that area they are standing on was created when all the material washed out of the valley that Omak lake is in and was all deposited right there during the flood. That material was pushed there with flow out of the columbia up over the omak lake valley (kartar valley). I think it was all part of the event that broke up the lower Okanogan lobe
very interesting video, at 19:10 where your talking about the benches, could they be the remanence of a land slide coming down from above, where looser material was deposited from either the ice that was there, or another way, with natural erosion scattered around their bases ?
Are those plateaus or 'terraces' not alluvial fans indicating a stable point of the lake height? The water was at that height, perhaps due to glacial blockage at the valley mouth. Those fans are left as the sediments build, then are left stranded as the water level drops. The stratification could be an artifact of a rising water level. Deposition from a water gush that increased the level of the lake, rinse, repeat. Then the moraine or ice damn let loose to a lower level and repeated.
Yes, Delta. Excuse my terminology. Water has a tendency to find level. I would like to show you these features closer to home sir. Okanagan valley at Vernon. Look east across Kalamalka lake. The terrace there is quite long and only 50-100' above the current lake level. But, the amount of water it would take to fill that valley to that extent is incredible.
I think that fan shaped feature is an alluvial fan then another or same event came from the river channel from the left and eroded the fans edge. Maybe it is an actual glacial dam, or yokelalps type situation? I think I spelt that wrong. The Icelandic term for flood caused by volcanic activity melting a glacier.
Always love learning new thing with you professor. I'm a new viewer and really enjoying your 351 series right now. It's amazing and wish I had you as a teacher in school.
Tonasket wa. When you get up in this area I would like to show you Whitestone mountain and flats. Many geology and flood features that you will find interesting.
I believe Nick was here in the area 5 years or so ago. There was a geology tour that left Tonasket high school and cruised the Loup through Nighthawk. I missed it, but I hope to catch the next one! From what I heard, they couldn't get access to Whitestone Mtn. They had been trying for years but its private and couldn't get permission. That mountain held a lot of mysteries they wanted to solve about local geology. Good talk Jim. Thom
I lived in that area for a number of years when I first moved out here. I never gave the landscape a thought other than it was a far cry different from the woods of upstate NY.
Jerome raises lots of questions which really need to be answered by further investigations into the structure of the “flats” and other terrace like structures. No guesses as to who will be then one to watch in the future. Thanks Nick for allowing Jerome to open up about his thoughts. Great video! 🐻
There are terraces where I live and it was very interesting to hear Jerome telling of the formation of those in WA. Ours are marine terraces formed by wave action and erosion combined with lifting of the landmass. It took me aback to think of them formed by deposition and then erosion. I'd love to have a beer around the campfire with Nick, Jerome and Skye and just listen to them talk new ideas! Thanks Nick!
I'm always excited to learn from Jerome and happy to see him in the field! Maybe Jerome can give Nick some contacts and we'll see Nick on Kosmographia!
Nick is a whole level above Komodo’s audience which is all good. One is science the other speculation not to be confused. Guess I just like the old man back in Smyrna GA
Jerome, I would love to pick your brain on the lost columbia river route with all your expertise im sure you must have alot of good knowledge on this, would love to see a video regarding its so far estimated ancient route through cherryville to lumby to wood lake to mission creek kelowna, but where did it go from there, did it merge with lake okanagan? man i wish i knew what you knew :P
@@andysAudio Maybe you should be interested because I had 5 USGS researchers spend most of a day digging samples at the GCP. Gold? No. Knowledge? Yes, aka priceless.
13:30 “nobody knew those ripple marks were there until now” Any one can see the ripple marks in that barn yard on Google Earth. Or, or, why is there no soil on the surrounding hills, look at those hills between these ripple marks & Omak Lake.
I love watching field geology, I get both the beautiful landscape and the cool science. Also, the little OSHA guy inside me wanted you to be wearing a safety vest when you were beside the road at the end. 😛😶
Thank you Nick for driving up to the Okanogan and capturing this visit with Jerome. I was taught that the "Okanogan Lobe" of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet came down all the way to Grand Coulee and pushed the Columbia down the Dry Falls, Lenore and Soap Lake channel? Where was the extent of the Okanogan Lobe. I see the Tunk valley as a lake that formed on the side of the Okanogan Lobe. This is water came from local creek flow but it runs into a wall of ice plugging up the Okanogan valley so it forms a lake on the side. Each of the flats in the Tunk are deltas where the sediments from the creek, meets still water forming the steep drop off common to above gradient energetic creeks. For your younger viewers, Brewster Flat (the great terrace) is where NASA established a radio listening post for communication with the Mercury and later manned space programs. When John Glenn orbited Earth in space in 1962 and then attempted reentry into the Atmosphere, a sensor went off that indicated that his heat shield might have slipped. America waited eight minutes while the Mercury Capsule, named Freedom 7, came over the Pacific from the west and dropped through the "Van Allen Belt" that inhibited radio reception. About a third of the population of Earth, listened to "Freedom 7, this is Brewster Flats, do you copy?"Over" multiple times until John Glenn answered and we knew he had not burned up as he entered the atmosphere. The heat shield sensor turned out to be faulty. Freedom 7 landed near Turk Island, in the Atlantic as planned. John Glenn went on to be the oldest astronaut to ever go into space, on the Shuttle Discovery, (1998) after retiring from the Senate at age 77. He said he was never so happy in his life to hear that call from Brewster Flats.
Thank you for reminding all of us that Washington had a part to play in our learning about space. Time blurs what we feeble humans consider “history.” While our Earth’s history is counted in millions and billions of years. We are just a blips on the last few seconds of Earth’s last minute of time. I am almost to retirement age but I keep learning things about this old world of ours and the more research I do the more rabbit holes I want to go down. But I don’t think I will have enough time to discover every thing on my list; it is now about 70’ish pages long single space typed. Oh well maybe the person getting my papers will find my list and take up the research. I can only hope. Nick you opened a new line of research for me because of geology and for that I will forever be greatful. You have brought so many learned scholars on that have pointed me to the right place at the right time. You are one of the professors who I wish had been teaching my geology class. It was so dry and boring that most of the class slept (class was at 7:30 am) and there were just a few of us taking notes. But having a majority of the class needing note’s payed for a higher standard of living for that semester.
Have a great respect for all your video's, but. . . . I notice one thing that is constant and not just yours but on other's and the interpretation of Ice age floods. . . . hmmmm!! how to explain it! 2 dimensional. When thinking of ice age floods. and the thickness of the ice. Ice doesnt always touch the surface, but water does. The thickness of the ice with a droplet of water suspended under the ice and making contact with the ground, would hold a lot of silt and dust. . . when that droplet let loose and flowed . . .would that not be a great amount of water. . . a flood of water? Could that be where some of those strange deposits come from that cant be accounted for . .?
What about that carved out channel across the ridge on the top of that lidar paper at 17:32 Couldn't an ice sheet "pressurize" that flow to carve it out like he was saying?
Perhaps there is still hope for Jerome, I had given up on him after watching his field trip east of Kelowna, off of Rock Creek Road. But to his credit Vic Baker said he has some odd, (or strange?) ideas. Baker said that on one of Nick’s videos ( I think it was on the north end of the Devil’s Punch Bowl) where Nick just joined up with the group. That particular conversation (Nick & Vic) I found troubling, Nick asked him if there was a possibility (or evidence) for a lot of water coming down the Okanagan Valley out of BC, & Vic flatly dismissed that. Lidar has proven to be a great tool.
I love these videos. I always learn so much about my home region, and I'm really grateful! Is there a difference between a bench (I live on a bench) and a terrace? Edit: After watching all of the video, I conclude they're synonymous.
I'm not a geologist, but I really enjoy learning about the planet via programs like this one. Thanks to your teaching Nick, I saw the "terraces" and noticed the dips in the road before you and Jerome explained them, and I guessed what the "terraces" were correctly. You taught me to look at the earth with a scientific eye/mind. Many thanks to you and Jerome, and to all the scientists past and present who have contributed to our current understanding of the Earth's processes. It is all pretty darned wonderful. Literally wonder-full.
The Okanagan Country, also known as the Okanagan Valley, is a region located in the Canadian province of British Columbia and the U.S. state of Washington (where it is spelled the Okanogan Country), defined by the basin of Okanagan Lake and the Okanagan River.
It's difficult to explain to most people why geology is so fascinating and awe-inspiring. When I see formations like these hidden in plain sight, the hair on the back of my neck stands up
Such a great episode. Jerome is fantastic. Love seeing this less formal, “out in the field” side of him as he follows a hypothesis and interprets on the fly. Thank you both!
Your in my back yard kind of, I am in Omak, and just Off Greenacres Rd. is where you are at up by the Airport. I am presently unearthing a large gravel bar south of you guys about 4 miles on highway 20 mile marker 231 by Smallwood Farms.
Fascinating again gentlemen thank you! I look forward to more in this country. I was born just over to the east there in Colville. Spent my childhood roaming the hills of my family cattle ranch on a mountain east side of the Kettle River, just 20 miles from Lake Christina BC. I just love that country.. Now we look to the future with a video of Jerome, Skye Cooley and you Nick!
Sounds like Kelly Hill. I used to be a Beekeeper with Joe Holt in Kettle and we had bee yards all over Kelly Hill. It was my favorite place to eat lunch while working. Locations were Anderson, Madsen, Hansen, Dewey Beardsley, Koschutski, etc... Heaven on Earth.
Gifford gal, here! Been studying the features along the Columbia and they have all the same characteristics as Nick and Jerome pointed out in the Okanagan...didn't find any ripples on the lidar here though. Lots of "streamlines", especially around Hunters.
As always, a great video with lots of questions. I do have a few myself and perhaps you've addressed them before. On this video, at the second stop, the lidar show distinct right to left marks. I'm guessing glacial striations? (the map where you were looking at the terraces) In the third segment, you were looking down at the river. Is the valley bottom the remnants of a glacial lake or just flood plain? Lastly, I'm not sure you've mentioned it in previous videos but, here in Maine, the ocean intruded inland over 100 miles in places after the glaciers retreated and before the land rebounded. That must have happened in Washington as well? Once again, thanks for all your videos.
is it possible that 50% or more of the 'water flow' at this point is/are comprised of turbidified sediments, meaning could the actual volume of water at the source(before picking up sediments) could actually be much much lower?
No, we saw those while in an Air Balloon, just because you guys finally seen it don't mean anything. Now your going up tunk where i go every weekend. My family has one of the oldest cabins on Crawfish Lake which is just above you. Did you see the Mining of Thualite just off the road after the big ditch.
I notice rocky hill above road sedimentary layers . High area must be older? And parts where road and valley must have eroded away during later floods? Good food for thought.
Johnson Creek gravel Wall, now we believe most the Flats around Omak are Gravel bars, i was born here lived here and dug hundreds of big holes here and that is my findings sir.
The 3 lobes look more like deltas than fans, as you note. I'm not familiar with this region, but by mapping the features and extracting the lidar elevation data, you should be able to test these ideas of lake deltas versus fans. This could be far more helpful than dates (which will have huge errors), or internal architecture, or even provenance (if reworking challenges interpretation). If Nick added an overview map with numbered stops, this video would feel like an informal FOP - but open to everyone!
Jerome is so good. Such a pro. I am always impressed and want to hear more. Keep your eye on him all you flood geologists; he will make important discoveries in his time.
That Skye Cooley is pretty good, too--far-looking and insightful, and great at sharing his thought-processes with us.
@@jackprier7727 Plus a really cool name.
and so will you Skye.
Makes me wonder about the Gangplank north of the Denver Basin. Denver Basin cut by the South Platte and is Cache la Poudre part of the north side? Is the Gangplank an outwash terrace from the Rockies?
And here i thought they drove on the the right in Canada
What a great video , kudos Nick and Jerome. Jerome like you Nick is a great teacher and has a talent for info delivery, always very interesting/entertaining!! The lidar maps are such a treat!!
Lake Missoula was a 'perfect storm' arrangement where one of the south-moving tongues of ice (Purcell lobe) crossed and blocked a west-flowing river, (the Clark Fork of the Columbia). But you don't have that same geometry in the Okanagan/Okanogon. Here, you have south-flowing rivers, and south-flowing ice lobes. So it's hard to construct a way to have one intercept and block the other to impound a large lake which will eventually breach and contribute to the erosion seen in Washington. Perhaps a fast-moving ice tongue from a side valley blocked drainage as the main Okanagan tongue receded northwards. But 'Where's the Lake?' is my question. No remnant shorelines. No lacustrine clay, no varves. No dropstones. So we have to go with sub-glacial flow which doesn't leave much evidence. The new mega-ripples shown on Lidar are compelling...but could they have been formed by an unusually rapid period of glacial melt which filled the valley with deep runoff?
Thank you for the interesting possibilities. So much more to learn of our joint geology in the Okanagan (Canadian spelling) and Columbia River valleys
Jerome is fantastic at describing this landscape! Like we're standing there watching the floods at the end of the Ice Age. Thanks for getting Jerome back on camera Nick!
Wonderful video! I have lived in Omak all my life and as I get older, I am more and more interested in the geology of my surroundings, our state and the PNW abroad. I find gratitude in finding your older videos on CWU's TH-cam and your teachings here on your personal TH-cam. Thanks to you and Jerome for igniting theories, connections and energies into this area of the world.
Does Jerome really have a right-hand drive car? At first I thought you had your iphone camera settings set to 'mirror.' But the printing on the maps is not reversed.
It allows him to see roadcut details better when driving. 😉
I thought the same. It might be originally a mail delivery van.
Yes, it looks to be a RHD Japanese-market Mitsubishi Delica. Canadian import laws are a little more lax than US ones, allowing imports of foreign market cars 15+ years old while here in the states it is 25+ years old. As a result, it isn't too uncommon to see Japanese market imports in Canada since they can get somewhat newer stuff.
On a few occasions I had opportunity to drive a right-hand drive minivan from the U.K. in Norway where of course they drive on the right-hand side of the road. It was….a challenge to the brain, to say the least.
Definitely a geologically diverse area.
Quite familiar with Tunk Mtn area up into Aeneas Valley. Also familiar with the area due east of Riverside up Johnson Creek Rd/Riverside Cutoff Rd., where if one takes the first dirt road north (to the right) about 1 mile east of Hwy 97 is an area known as the Lime Belt where Albtight cave, situate on Cave Mtn., largest limestone cave in Washington. Personally been down to very bottom of the cave and could feel a cool breeze coming up from the progressively narrowing passage. Many people are not aware that Albright Cave has two cave entrances.
Just north of Riverside, where Hwy 97 crosses the Okanogan River, a.ka., Janus Bridge, take the dirt road that goes up to McLoughlin Canyon and there is an extense cave system that i am personally quite familiar with known as McLoughlin Caves. This is one of the largest cave systems of Washington state. It is essentially a mountain that is fractured in criss-cross fashion with numerous interconnected passages with some impreesive size rooms, extremely narrow passageways that drop several hundred feet down that requires climbing gear. If you find a large manilla rope that goes down a steep passage it was left there by me and two rock climbing buddies one day back in early 1990s.
See, Caves of Washington, by William R. Halliday. Albright Cave @ p. 40; McLoughlin Cave @ p. 43.
ger_ic40_caves_of_wa.pdf
Can't get into edit my comment to make correction that Johnson Creek/ Riverside Cutoff Rd is not east, but west of Riverside. The Lime Belt /Cave Mtn area is also accessible by heading north up Hwy 97 about 6 mi. to South Pine Creek Rd., head towards Fish Lake.
Thanks for the rope! My buddy and I made it to a rope but didnt trust it. We brought back our own and my buddy dropped 20 feet or so and could tell it went a lot deeper. We didnt have any climbing experience so we turned back. Good times! That was 2001-2002. Amazing mountain! We heard rumor, maybe even found an old newspaper article saying another entrance across the river was dynamited. We were looking for the stash of guns hidden there by outlaws!!
Shhhhh dont tell the seattle people about cool things there.
"Not a mega flood" I mean 50 feet deep at 30 ft a second is still a heck of a flood, lol.
Wow, that was really interesting, thanks Nick and Jerome. Lidar is so cool. Even I knew immediately what those ripples were as soon as i saw the pic. it reminds me of why I enjoy B/W photography in that... when you remove the color you are more free to see the form. Lidar removes all the stuff that clutters up the picture so you can see the shape of what's really there.
Love the Jerome videos. He has such a good way of educating his audience just like you do. If he ever does some public lectures I'd love to watch.
Tunk creek is where my Grandpa found the Thulite I gave Nick. I think you might find more ripples in Horse Springs Coulee north of Aeneas lake by Tonasket. We found mussel shells in terraces around Tonasket, clearly the ice had melted enough to allow feed for them for a time and that the benches were probably shores of a river lake. When the ice came back it drove the river up and over the area south of Janis bridge which eroded and allowed the lake to drain? The river, for a time, looks like it followed Hwy 97 down the higher valley of Crumbacher lake prior to the drainage opened up south of Janis bridge.
The Similkameen River has always provided way more water flow than the Okanogan and it used to flow through the Spectacle lake valley. I suppose it's possible that it even went south past Blue lake into fish lake, then into either the Conconully, the Crumbacher lake area or both.
I've always thought the same. No geologist, just a local. Both those valleys (spectacle n blue) are deeper and wider than the current water could form. Some may be from flooding coming down Toats coulee, but it seems more water volume and time than Toats would provide. Similkameen is a good explanation, especially since it flows that direction through Palmer lake during flood stage.
@@thomashart1560 I thought about this a bit more and decided that the east side of the coast range Canadian cascades would have always provided way more runoff than the the inland mountains around the Okanagan, draining all the water east of the Fraiser. The square mileage of drainage would have been huge. The backed up Columbia drainage probably fed into either the Okanagan and/or the Similkameen as well adding even more water. All the benches in the US Okanogan and south down to Wenatchee could have come from the two rivers together.
Thank you for all you do to keep us interested in geology in Washington State
You have assembled quite a crew, Nick. Thank you for all that you do.
Lidar is a useful tool. I'd hoped for more about the talks with Jerome about subglacial water discharge from Canada into the US Okanogan. Here we go! Stay tuned. Thank you Nick and Jerome!
Tunnel valley under ice, type of sediment, and uphill water flow in places discussion very interesting, didn't know anything about that.
Great outing, guys! Hope you can do more! If you're near Omak, try getting out to "Balancing Rock" near Omak lake. Very cool huge erratic balancing on a smaller rock...
The landscape and lidar images of the Columbia river channel from Kettle Falls to the Spokane River look a lot like what you've explored there in the Okanagan. Lots of benches full of rounded river cobble. We even have a huge gravel pit full of river cobbles on the summit of Addy-Gifford road at 2800 ft. Exciting stuff! And don't forget to check out the erratic boulder fields east of Curlew! No other site like it!
The effect of heavy snow falls during the Ice Age reached far south of the ice sheet terminations in the northern states of the lower forty-eight, producing glazier cut valleys where no glaziers have existed for thousands of years. I imagine the ice sheets, as they progressed south, over topped mountains and glazier filled valleys, filling in the valleys and then sliding over the top to fill in the next valley, and so on. As the ice sheets receded (they were still moving south, just melting back faster than their southward movement) leaving great depths of ice in those valleys. Eventually exposure of mountain peaks collecting solar heat and rising temperatures could cause melting, water ponding and cutting through mountain peaks thousands of feet above the current valley floors. Alluvial fans, bench's, flats and such could form high on the sides of a glazier filled valley.
That is a good point, heavy snowfalls may have produced local glaciers, after all a glacier apparently exists in Mt. St. Helens's crater now, it doesn't take long.
I think i saw your Mitisbishi Van Near Enderby Last week? At Eby Hand Launch for the Shuswap river...i ve lived here since 1969, luv Nicks Vids and both ur guys expertise, im a hobby Geologist, i have some cool spots i visit often near here. Many questions unanswered about my area,( great divide, Fraser/ Columbia river systems , Enderby Cliffs, Mabel Lake Glacial Eratics etc etc )
The large flat thats was eroded to create that area they are standing on was created when all the material washed out of the valley that Omak lake is in and was all deposited right there during the flood. That material was pushed there with flow out of the columbia up over the omak lake valley (kartar valley). I think it was all part of the event that broke up the lower Okanogan lobe
Wassup? They taught you more than me! Good stuff
very interesting video, at 19:10 where your talking about the benches, could they be the remanence of a land slide coming down from above, where looser material was deposited from either the ice that was there, or another way, with natural erosion scattered around their bases ?
Are those plateaus or 'terraces' not alluvial fans indicating a stable point of the lake height? The water was at that height, perhaps due to glacial blockage at the valley mouth. Those fans are left as the sediments build, then are left stranded as the water level drops. The stratification could be an artifact of a rising water level. Deposition from a water gush that increased the level of the lake, rinse, repeat. Then the moraine or ice damn let loose to a lower level and repeated.
Yes, Delta. Excuse my terminology. Water has a tendency to find level. I would like to show you these features closer to home sir. Okanagan valley at Vernon. Look east across Kalamalka lake. The terrace there is quite long and only 50-100' above the current lake level. But, the amount of water it would take to fill that valley to that extent is incredible.
I think that fan shaped feature is an alluvial fan then another or same event came from the river channel from the left and eroded the fans edge. Maybe it is an actual glacial dam, or yokelalps type situation? I think I spelt that wrong. The Icelandic term for flood caused by volcanic activity melting a glacier.
I love these geomorphology discussions. Fascinating to try to understand how a landscape got that way.
Late comment - The ripples can be seen on google maps in the satellite mode. The terrace show up nicely on google maps in the 'terrain' mode.
This has been excellent.
Please show more of this area, even up to Orville and Osoyoos on the Canadian side.
Always love learning new thing with you professor. I'm a new viewer and really enjoying your 351 series right now. It's amazing and wish I had you as a teacher in school.
Tonasket wa. When you get up in this area I would like to show you Whitestone mountain and flats. Many geology and flood features that you will find interesting.
I believe Nick was here in the area 5 years or so ago. There was a geology tour that left Tonasket high school and cruised the Loup through Nighthawk. I missed it, but I hope to catch the next one!
From what I heard, they couldn't get access to Whitestone Mtn. They had been trying for years but its private and couldn't get permission. That mountain held a lot of mysteries they wanted to solve about local geology. Good talk Jim.
Thom
I lived in that area for a number of years when I first moved out here. I never gave the landscape a thought other than it was a far cry different from the woods of upstate NY.
Jerome raises lots of questions which really need to be answered by further investigations into the structure of the “flats” and other terrace like structures. No guesses as to who will be then one to watch in the future. Thanks Nick for allowing Jerome to open up about his thoughts.
Great video! 🐻
There are terraces where I live and it was very interesting to hear Jerome telling of the formation of those in WA. Ours are marine terraces formed by wave action and erosion combined with lifting of the landmass. It took me aback to think of them formed by deposition and then erosion. I'd love to have a beer around the campfire with Nick, Jerome and Skye and just listen to them talk new ideas! Thanks Nick!
count me in.
Me 2!
I'm always excited to learn from Jerome and happy to see him in the field! Maybe Jerome can give Nick some contacts and we'll see Nick on Kosmographia!
Nick is a whole level above Komodo’s audience which is all good. One is science the other speculation not to be confused. Guess I just like the old man back in Smyrna GA
Under ice river flow uphill was a new thought for me.
Listening and watching knowledgeable folks thinking and musing and processing, is such a great thing for learning.
So cool to be on the ground floor with you and Jerome! Loving all the field videos Nick.
outstanding conversation and visuals. Thank you
Jerome, I would love to pick your brain on the lost columbia river route with all your expertise im sure you must have alot of good knowledge on this, would love to see a video regarding its so far estimated ancient route through cherryville to lumby to wood lake to mission creek kelowna, but where did it go from there, did it merge with lake okanagan? man i wish i knew what you knew :P
come to Granger and I will show you the Columbia River rocks.
@@churlburt8485 Columbia river rocks are everywhere, why would i go to GRANGER to see them ?
@@andysAudio cause you love me? How would I know why you do anything?
@@churlburt8485 lol ok well if those gravels have gold in them you can just go ahead and ship them my way ;)
@@andysAudio Maybe you should be interested because I had 5 USGS researchers spend most of a day digging samples at the GCP. Gold? No. Knowledge? Yes, aka priceless.
13:30 “nobody knew those ripple marks were there until now” Any one can see the ripple marks in that barn yard on Google Earth. Or, or, why is there no soil on the surrounding hills, look at those hills between these ripple marks & Omak Lake.
I love watching field geology, I get both the beautiful landscape and the cool science.
Also, the little OSHA guy inside me wanted you to be wearing a safety vest when you were beside the road at the end. 😛😶
Thank you Nick for driving up to the Okanogan and capturing this visit with Jerome. I was taught that the "Okanogan Lobe" of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet came down all the way to Grand Coulee and pushed the Columbia down the Dry Falls, Lenore and Soap Lake channel? Where was the extent of the Okanogan Lobe. I see the Tunk valley as a lake that formed on the side of the Okanogan Lobe. This is water came from local creek flow but it runs into a wall of ice plugging up the Okanogan valley so it forms a lake on the side. Each of the flats in the Tunk are deltas where the sediments from the creek, meets still water forming the steep drop off common to above gradient energetic creeks.
For your younger viewers, Brewster Flat (the great terrace) is where NASA established a radio listening post for communication with the Mercury and later manned space programs. When John Glenn orbited Earth in space in 1962 and then attempted reentry into the Atmosphere, a sensor went off that indicated that his heat shield might have slipped. America waited eight minutes while the Mercury Capsule, named Freedom 7, came over the Pacific from the west and dropped through the "Van Allen Belt" that inhibited radio reception. About a third of the population of Earth, listened to "Freedom 7, this is Brewster Flats, do you copy?"Over" multiple times until John Glenn answered and we knew he had not burned up as he entered the atmosphere. The heat shield sensor turned out to be faulty. Freedom 7 landed near Turk Island, in the Atlantic as planned. John Glenn went on to be the oldest astronaut to ever go into space, on the Shuttle Discovery, (1998) after retiring from the Senate at age 77. He said he was never so happy in his life to hear that call from Brewster Flats.
Thank you for reminding all of us that Washington had a part to play in our learning about space. Time blurs what we feeble humans consider “history.”
While our Earth’s history is counted in millions and billions of years. We are just a blips on the last few seconds of Earth’s last minute of time. I am almost to retirement age but I keep learning things about this old world of ours and the more research I do the more rabbit holes I want to go down. But I don’t think I will have enough time to discover every thing on my list; it is now about 70’ish pages long single space typed. Oh well maybe the person getting my papers will find my list and take up the research. I can only hope.
Nick you opened a new line of research for me because of geology and for that I will forever be greatful. You have brought so many learned scholars on that have pointed me to the right place at the right time. You are one of the professors who I wish had been teaching my geology class. It was so dry and boring that most of the class slept (class was at 7:30 am) and there were just a few of us taking notes. But having a majority of the class needing note’s payed for a higher standard of living for that semester.
Have a great respect for all your video's, but. . . . I notice one thing that is constant and not just yours but on other's and the interpretation of Ice age floods. . . . hmmmm!! how to explain it! 2 dimensional. When thinking of ice age floods. and the thickness of the ice. Ice doesnt always touch the surface, but water does. The thickness of the ice with a droplet of water suspended under the ice and making contact with the ground, would hold a lot of silt and dust. . . when that droplet let loose and flowed . . .would that not be a great amount of water. . . a flood of water? Could that be where some of those strange deposits come from that cant be accounted for . .?
What about that carved out channel across the ridge on the top of that lidar paper at 17:32 Couldn't an ice sheet "pressurize" that flow to carve it out like he was saying?
Where do the McLaughlin caves at the end of Chewilikin Valley fit into all this?
18:00 could they be formed from once in 200 (or 500) year storms (rain)?
Perhaps there is still hope for Jerome, I had given up on him after watching his field trip east of Kelowna, off of Rock Creek Road. But to his credit Vic Baker said he has some odd, (or strange?) ideas. Baker said that on one of Nick’s videos ( I think it was on the north end of the Devil’s Punch Bowl) where Nick just joined up with the group. That particular conversation (Nick & Vic) I found troubling, Nick asked him if there was a possibility (or evidence) for a lot of water coming down the Okanagan Valley out of BC, & Vic flatly dismissed that. Lidar has proven to be a great tool.
Bretz had some strange ideas too they say, now proven true?
Love the Okanagan! Great vineyards on our benches. 🇨🇦
You got me hooked, will be in this area July butterflying.
Great use of the Lidar and great detective work by Jerome. I wish high resolution Lidar was done everywhere. thx nick
Nick where could your average hound gain access to this lidar magic
Hang on, the steering-wheel is on the correct side, for Australia.
Thank you Nick n Jerome. Hope to attend a lecture someday!
Thank you for this wonderful informative series.
I love these videos. I always learn so much about my home region, and I'm really grateful! Is there a difference between a bench (I live on a bench) and a terrace? Edit: After watching all of the video, I conclude they're synonymous.
Keep up the great work you guys.
I'm not a geologist, but I really enjoy learning about the planet via programs like this one. Thanks to your teaching Nick, I saw the "terraces" and noticed the dips in the road before you and Jerome explained them, and I guessed what the "terraces" were correctly. You taught me to look at the earth with a scientific eye/mind. Many thanks to you and Jerome, and to all the scientists past and present who have contributed to our current understanding of the Earth's processes. It is all pretty darned wonderful. Literally wonder-full.
The Okanagan Country, also known as the Okanagan Valley, is a region located in the Canadian province of British Columbia and the U.S. state of Washington (where it is spelled the Okanogan Country), defined by the basin of Okanagan Lake and the Okanagan River.
Love the interaction between Nick and Jerome!
It's difficult to explain to most people why geology is so fascinating and awe-inspiring. When I see formations like these hidden in plain sight, the hair on the back of my neck stands up
Great stuff
Great job gentleman!! I always enjoy expanding our understanding of our neighborhood. Thank you both!
Such a great episode. Jerome is fantastic. Love seeing this less formal, “out in the field” side of him as he follows a hypothesis and interprets on the fly. Thank you both!
This was great
Another lucid, informative video. Thanks, Nick and Jerome.
I just love this stuff!
it's great to see Jerome and get his veiw.
🥳 So nice to see you and listen to you again Jerome🥰 Thanks Nick 😍
Your in my back yard kind of, I am in Omak, and just Off Greenacres Rd. is where you are at up by the Airport. I am presently unearthing a large gravel bar south of you guys about 4 miles on highway 20 mile marker 231 by Smallwood Farms.
He should explore the Loomis and Palmer Lake area. That might fit the tunnel valley profile. Those flats go all the way up the valley past Tonasket.
Those guys have an interesting job.
Fascinating again gentlemen thank you! I look forward to more in this country. I was born just over to the east there in Colville. Spent my childhood roaming the hills of my family cattle ranch on a mountain east side of the Kettle River, just 20 miles from Lake Christina BC. I just love that country.. Now we look to the future with a video of Jerome, Skye Cooley and you Nick!
Sounds like Kelly Hill. I used to be a Beekeeper with Joe Holt in Kettle and we had bee yards all over Kelly Hill. It was my favorite place to eat lunch while working. Locations were Anderson, Madsen, Hansen, Dewey Beardsley, Koschutski, etc... Heaven on Earth.
Gifford gal, here! Been studying the features along the Columbia and they have all the same characteristics as Nick and Jerome pointed out in the Okanagan...didn't find any ripples on the lidar here though. Lots of "streamlines", especially around Hunters.
This is what I've been waiting for... I see evidence all around my area (Trail BC) of once great floods. Glacial til is abundant at 3500 ft.
As always, a great video with lots of questions. I do have a few myself and perhaps you've addressed them before. On this video, at the second stop, the lidar show distinct right to left marks. I'm guessing glacial striations? (the map where you were looking at the terraces) In the third segment, you were looking down at the river. Is the valley bottom the remnants of a glacial lake or just flood plain? Lastly, I'm not sure you've mentioned it in previous videos but, here in Maine, the ocean intruded inland over 100 miles in places after the glaciers retreated and before the land rebounded. That must have happened in Washington as well? Once again, thanks for all your videos.
is it possible that 50% or more of the 'water flow' at this point is/are comprised of turbidified sediments, meaning could the actual volume of water at the source(before picking up sediments) could actually be much much lower?
No, we saw those while in an Air Balloon, just because you guys finally seen it don't mean anything. Now your going up tunk where i go every weekend. My family has one of the oldest cabins on Crawfish Lake which is just above you. Did you see the Mining of Thualite just off the road after the big ditch.
Jerome has a very interesting project, wonderful like updates as he finds answers. Great video once again Nick, clear and 5x5
My son lived in Twisp. Before the place burned down I noticed the river rock were at least 150' above the valley below.
I notice rocky hill above road sedimentary layers . High area must be older? And parts where road and valley must have eroded away during later floods? Good food for thought.
That was a great field trip. How exciting to be in on potential new theories and research. Beautiful locations as well! Thanks for taking us along.
Thanks Nick
Johnson Creek gravel Wall, now we believe most the Flats around Omak are Gravel bars, i was born here lived here and dug hundreds of big holes here and that is my findings sir.
Another great video! in the thumbnail it looks like body cam footage of a Dr. Jerome traffic stop going on,lol 😆
Every time I hear Jerome i have the thought that he sounds like Zack Galifianakis. It's uncanny to me
Wow. Simply amazing and exciting new information. Thank you for all the years on the TH-cam. Information is entertainment.
So interesting. Thank you.
Thanks for letting us tag along.
"nobody knew they were here" except the locals that could tell enough to put buildings on the ridges so they don't flood.
Can only assume the cows were standing around conversing before you arrived.
Always happy to see there are new ways to see old questions to create new Knowledge in the here and now. Having fun, keep up the good work. Thank you.
The 3 lobes look more like deltas than fans, as you note. I'm not familiar with this region, but by mapping the features and extracting the lidar elevation data, you should be able to test these ideas of lake deltas versus fans. This could be far more helpful than dates (which will have huge errors), or internal architecture, or even provenance (if reworking challenges interpretation). If Nick added an overview map with numbered stops, this video would feel like an informal FOP - but open to everyone!
Thanks Nick and Jerome. I so enjoy turning on one of these videos and learning about geology and deep time. Keep up the good work.
The very flat rounded rock under the map, indicates water flow to me.
Udderly fantastic...
Thank you Professor Zentner
Appreciate the great photography. I notice you picked a nice place to interview so you get nice wild flowers in the picture and nice view also
Never heard of Jerome Lesemann, enjoyed listening to him.
I was in that area in June. Great to see some geology that I can actually relate to.
So,where did that much water come from? Duration of that flow?
At 40:33, Is that an ancient beach cuts on the facing of the ridge across the way?