This Is So Amazing, And Beautiful. I Absolutely Love Your Geologically Intellectual Walks & Travels. We Have Been Exploring With You For Years, And It Would Be An Absolute Treasure To Walk & Learn From You. We're All Nerds Here! 💜
I could weep at finding such a fine teacher. Using different colors of inks and then holding the pens up in front of the on-the-ground evidence is so simple and direct. I feel your pain in questioning how Bretz has been pushed aside by more recent work. I face the same in my field. What I learned makes sense, works, and gets wonderful results, but newer ideas presented by those trying to make their marks in the field poo-poo my standards. I am not willing to accept the newer 'alternative facts'. I follow your videos as much as I can. I know so much about WA geology thanks to you. I wish there were work like yours relating to my local NY geology. The pacific northwest is so lucky to have you.
Nick, you are setting a great example for your students as well as us older folks. Stay open to new information and keep a fresh mind ... so important!
@@anthonynicholson5523The Past Is How We Learn The Future... Keeping The Work Of Those Who Came Before Fresh In Our Minds Is How Breakthroughs Are Made, Little Hints Of The Past Complete The Picture Of The Present & Teach Valuable Lessons For The Coming Years.
What I like about this is that for the most of the internet everyone is coming at you with answers, but this guy is giving you questions about the answers. This is a true teacher at the top of his game. Nick Zentner is the Wallace Stegner of geology weaving rocks and prose into a unique teaching style getting you to ask why and how.
Then Adding Another Layer In Asking Whether Why & How Are Correct, Or Just Pieces In A Bigger Story... This Is Just An Amazing Science, That I Completely Adore, The Depth Of Curiosity Never Quenching My Thirst.
Nick, thank you, so much. We are so lucky to live in Yakima Washington. Learning about what formed the regions we have grown up with. And how lucky we are to have so much of our area untouched.
17:20 One thing I noticed is that the top of the cliff from the Spokane flood has some pretty severe elevation changes, while the Wisconsin flood is a relatively flat top. Kinda what you'd expect from a mega flood gouging untouched land first, and then a big flood coming along later to gouge out the bottom of the canyon left from the first flood.
An ancient mystery for sure Nick. To sit there a ponder for hours and days at a time like Bretz did. I think he new what he was talking about. He was in the country there with zero distractions with clear and sober thoughts. He translated it the best he could to paper. Your mastery Nick is to bring those words off the page and paint that picture for us common folk. Well done sir.
You tell us you're 'only' a teacher. First of all you shouldn't talk yourself down like that. Teachers are essential for the development of the next generations. And as far as I know you, and having seen the way you teach during lockdown, I hold you in the highest regard as a teacher. Your pupils' minds are richer because of you. So thank thank you from the bottom of my heart on their behalf. And yes, I know that guests in your videos (like Jerome Lesemann) are excellent teachers as well, but now I am talking (writing) about you for a change Second, in videos like this you show that you have a real scientific mind. Open to multiple views, asking questions that inspire us to achieve more insight in the world around us. So to me you are a real gem! Love from Dreischor in The Netherlands.
Nick writes with chalk on a chalkboard, has calloused hands, can swing a geology hammer, teaches in the open sun and wind, and walks in the bare open rocks and fields. A real geologist. Thank you for doing all this for us amateur geology enthusiasts.
We need a resurgence of the kind of thinking that you have recently been up to, Nick, in many aspects of our collective thinking. We are all eternal students. Anyone who thinks that they are not, are just kidding themselves. I love the videos, keep it up, please.
Bravo DrNick, this is a great opener for other ideas. I am not familiar with the discussion of four US states in regard to ice sheets. Being in Washington, I thought it might be related to that State.
When I visited central Washington last summer (August) for the first time, I confess I was just as impressed with Moses Coulee as I was with Dry Falls and the lower Grand Coulee. I didn't see, and wasn't aware of, the trailhead you used. Not a geologist (only an elderly amateur) I don't know (but I'm trying to learn) the details, but remain impressed by the SCALE of the events that created both coulees. In hindsight, I'm still impressed by the regularity of those hanging valleys marching upvalley into the distance on both sides of the coulee. I've walked (as well as I could) plenty of talus slopes hiking in the Rockies in years past. Not terribly enthused about doing it again. Yes, I'd like to see a map showing Bretz's Spokane ice, and a comparison with the Wisconsin ice. A non-geologist, I don't know enough to be able to help with the dates of the four major glacial episodes in the Pacific Northwest you mentioned… Thanks, Nick, for the additional food for thought. One more reason to get back out there before I'm too old and frail to travel and hike.
Love how you use the colored pens to illustrate the different ice ages on paper and real life! 🖊️🖊️ Thank you for posting these papers, so more of us can read Bretz's writings. Love being able to better interpret these important places.
Its amazing when the perspective changes about these events, and we see actually just how close we are to these events still! Ur à Malone i see...too funny.
Your work here, for us, is greatly appreciated. If not for your dedication and diligence, we’d be poorer for it. You’ve gotten quite good at sharing with this format, and it shows. Thank you, sir.
I live on the other side of the globe in Sweden. This is just so fascinating to me! Sweden also saw some great reconstruction of the basement rocks in the latest ice age, but there were so many episodes before this that wiped out so much geologic history! We tend to forget the ice ages that came before! There are still some sanctuaries in Sweden, for instance there are ancient "Jotnian" sandstones on an island in the lake Mälaren still to this day. Then we have the Gävle-sandstone that survived so many ice floods and glaciers. And we have all the crazy erratics that tell of a violent tale. The main difference between the PNW and Sweden is that we haven't really seen volcanic activity for the last few hundred millions of years. Where I live in Stockholm, Sweden, we have ancient sandstones (wackes) that have been uplifted from some ancient sea floor, as well as gabbroids and plutonic rocks (granites and granitoids, some of them metamorphosed). All of these rocks are older than 1.7 GY.
My whole life I have looked in amazement at the two deepest and most massive features in all of north-central Washington (Moses Coulee and Grand Coulee ). Both are the furthest away from the Lake Missoula flood waters as far as the waters flow from the east. My small ranch is supposedly one of those features of the Missoula flood in the spring canyon area , I look at it every day, This is so exciting to have you exploring the whole picture with an open mind. The cubic Miles of ice that was in the ice sheet were astronomical in volume. I watch videos from Iceland and realize how much could be learned by studying their current ongoing geology. This is great, Thank you.
Thank you sir ... I love your content . My mother is Linda Marmes . Her father Roland owned the land that the Marmes rock shelter is located on... I know this landscape well ..
I was blessed as a beginning anthropology student to be taken to the Marmes shelter near the end of the digging there. The last skeleton was found the day I was there. I have thought of that trip since starting to study with Nick. Best wishes to your family.
Doc I want to thank you for your teaching and learned zeal for geology. I’m just a lay guy from Oklahoma that loves this stuff!!! I’ve been studying the mountains south of Oklahoma City and the Turner Falls area. It’s absolutely fascinating to me that our mountains came from the Teton Region. Thanks for what you are doing teaching the history of the earth. Many blessings your way
Thanks Nick for turning me on to the “classic” writings of early Geology. I’m currently reading Condon’s The Two Islands and although there is so much that has been learned since then, the writing is just so evocative and thrilling, this BA (English) appreciates it very much!
I graduated from WSU in 94 and one of my favorite classes was Geology. I used to come back to the dorm room and tell my friends about the cliffs around and other features on how they were formed, etc. The conversation would usually drift into something else and I would always jump back in with, "Anyway....back to my rock topic." It still today is used in conversations jokingly with those same life long friends that I made there. Washington State truly is a masterpiece of Geology formations. This is so fun to watch you break open a new/old theory from Bretz. It really makes a ton of sense just looking at it from where you are there in the video.
Food for thought Nick. 100 years from now, will todays geological field research be tossed aside? It happened to Bretz in the last 100 years. Keep up the great work sir.
Elderly UCDavis physiology grad here, loving your specific presentations on rocks. Thank you for leaving your beloved and critter’s (Bijou) sides to explore and query this very exciting recovered, if you will, information. To see you as a curious child, plus watching your brain sift and reweigh the evidence is illuminating - it’s real time not geological time!! How exciting to witness this joy in you. Thank you for streaming and sharing. Thank you to Liz for keeping you happy and for sharing you. You rock!! Cheers!
Glad I stumbled across your channel. I am really enjoying your lectures and discussions. I am a rank novice but enjoy learning and appreciate your skills as an instructor.
That is a great trail that despite my many years exploring the Coulee only discovered in 2016. The interesting thing that i don't know if anyone knows about is that above the Columbia River near the Coulee are caves. A guy i know was brave enough to climb to a couple of these which isn't advisable. He found a number of artifacts that were very interesting as to methods of production.
"Wow, this is really fun"...he says near the end of the video. I can only imagine! What a wonderful "job" you have and what a super teacher you are. I sat here soaking up every word. The PLOT THICKENS. I love it. Thank you for doing what you do.
It took me a moment to realize how you were presenting Bretz's theories of the floods...I was thinking with the Law of Superposition, which would place oldest at the lower portion and youngest at the top, but when you think of flooding it had to be the other way around. You have to remove the youngest rock with the oldest floods, and the oldest rocks with the youngest floods...Thank you Dr. Zentner.
Well more simply put , it is erosion vs deposition , each with time and gravity at play . I'm thinking much of this early channel carving would have been done with ice though , instead of water doing much of the initial work .
Hi, You asked about ice ages in Europe, this is a broad outline for German language geology. In the German language we have to sets of names, one for the Northern and one for the Alpine Ice Sheet. All names are derived from river names. (Partly they are actually small, insignificant streams, that are hard to remember.) This is a list of the last 4 ice ages, northern names first: Weichsel/ Würm 115.000-10.000 BC Saale/ Riß 300.000-126.000. Elster/ Mindel 460.000-320.000 Elbe/ Günz 600.000 bis 800.000 For Weichsel/ Würm we have a first big push of the ice shield in the north starting about 70.000 BC, corresponding to MIS 4. The max. expansion is uncertain. In the alps there is even more uncertainty if there was extended glaciation at this time. From banded silt and clay layers we know, that in the time period 31.600- 26.800 BC the area of Innsbruck in the Austrian Alps was ice free. In the second push, corresponding to MIS 2 the ice in the north reached nearly everywhere further then in the first on. The maximum was around 20.000 to 18.000 BC. In the alps the core of Würm glaciation started around 25.000 BC and hit it's maximum around 20.000 BC. For MSI see . So even in the relative small arena between Germany's northern and southern borders, there were differences how the global trends played out. I think this gets much more interesting if one looks further east, from Poland to Siberia.
WOW, wow, I could see that the floods from Spoken Icesheet could have been more huge and curved the major channels than the floods from Wisconsin Icesheet✨😄💗Way way too cool!!!! Thanks, Nick for wondering with us!!✨
As an old geology guy, I enjoy your videos. On the subject of Ice Age Floods, you would do everyone a service by referring them to the outstanding books by Bruce Bjornstad and Eugene Kiver. By far the best and most informative volumes I've read on the topic. Lots of maps, photos, diagrams and road trip guides, with clear and concise text are invaluable for anyone wishing to expand their understanding of these monumental events. I highly recommend them.
"How much is our globe in-synch?" What a great question. I've spent time at Big Bend National Park in Texas. The evidence of water in the Chisos Desert is profound. I've tried to imagine how that much water (in what is today a desert) plagued the southwest. But in the desert, that is never the interest, sadly. Yet there is such great evidence of massive flooding. Certainly during the Wisconsin, the flooding of SW Texas was profound. It would make a great geologic study. I look forward to meeting you in August with Basil in Idaho. Perhaps we can discuss briefly then.
You're indeed a true student and magnificent teacher Sir! I'm sure you have heard, but I'm going to mention it anyway that there is evidentiary deposits in the upper fingers of lake Missoula suggesting they were layed down by a current flowing up the valleys rather than down. This may tell us that lake Missoula was rapidly filled possibly by the same flood that shaped the scab lands and the lake was only part of the story. Thank you for your time and for bringing geology to vivid life. :)
that's some impressively steady camera movement. Great explanation of the beautiful scenery as usual:) the Bretz 1,000 mile traverse in 1922 , 2000 mile in 1923, is amazing too.
One thing that would be useful to know is the present rate of talus deposition. You can use the size of lichen to determine how long a rock has lain undisturbed. Survey a swath of talus surface. Some rocks will be bare, just recently fallen. The age of the oldest unburied rocks should tell you the rate at which new rock has been falling.
Another vicarious hike through an ancient landscape. Loved the clattering and clinking of the talus as you clambered up the slope...thoroughly enjoyable.
Professor Zentner, 95% of my interest and knowledge in the geology of the scablands has been derived from watching your videos the last several years. For that I thank you. The primary question I have from this video regarding the discussion of the Spokane vs the Wisconsin events: Doesn't the current uniformity of the Spokane (higher) talus deposits necessarily mean they are the result of accumulation after the Wisconsin events (or Missoula floods)? I say this because it seems to me the immense volume of water required to carve the younger/smaller Wisconsin cut would have swept away all of the pre-Wisconsin talus buildup along the canyon walls. I would like to hear from anyone with an opinion. Thank you.
Regarding the talus aprons as clues to their relative and absolute age. If one assumes a fairly constant rate of deposition of talus from the wall, then it would seem to be a fairly straight-forward calculation to estimate the age of the upper channel as a multiple of the lower channel, based on the volume of talus. If the rate of talus deposition per linear meter of vertical wall is about the same for the upper and lower wall, then the variables that account for the size of a cross section of the talus apron are 1. height of the wall above that cross section, and 2. time. Knowing that the Missoula floods were ~18,000 years ago, and measuring the lower wall height and talus cross section, one should be able to calculate, roughly, how far in the past the older flood was. One wrinkle in the rate of talus deposition is that, at the start of deposition, forces of erosion might need some time to alter the basalt enough to the point that the talus starts coming off in earnest. In other words, at first the rate might be quite low compared later into the erosion process. A second wrinkle might be whether the talus comes mostly from the top portions of the wall, or from all heights of the wall roughly equally. That's a question of understanding how the basalt weathers. If the talus comes mainly from the upper areas, then the rate of deposition would be roughly constant. But if it comes from all heights roughly equally, then (all other things being equal) the rate of deposition would slow over time as the apron height increases, reducing the amount of exposed wall available to contribute talus. Thoughts of a rank amateur. But it's fun to think about!
Nice scenery for your very informativer talk, very interesting thought of the talus as a dating tool - kinda like tree rings maybe in my mind. Have a great night Nick!
Exciting episode! Family matters have kept me away from geology for a few weeks but I have time and will finish what I had started to prepare for you on Thomas Large, Bretz, Pardee et al. I have lots and lots of news clippings and a little timeline. Maybe there will be something in there that will be a trigger for you. I do know that there was talk in some news articles of older glaciations around Spokane with some dates suggested. As I listened to this video I immediately thought of my experience driving up in back of Jumpoff Ridge last weekend to Stephens meadow. Naneum ridge towers over the back side of the meadow. On the way we passed a steep talus slope very close to the road that looks like it could be as old as the top one in Moses Coulee (ie Spokane age talus) and would be part of the same Grande Ronde flow layer. I wish I had taken a photo. It is supposed to rain tomorrow so I will have some time to wrap up the documents and news clippings and get them off to you. By the way, after my research I have dubbed Thomas Large the Nick Zentner of his time - you will see why when you get the documents. Thanks for posting the early Bretz papers - I had been unsuccessfully trying to locate copies online! Looking forward to diving into them, but first the documents, lol. One more thought - when you were talking about how far down Bretz had the earlier glacier lobes it seemed logical to me that that glaciation event would have carved out the trough that then later filled up during the Wisconsin melting to become glacial Lake Columbia. Just amateur musings.
The troughs in which glacial lakes formed are depressions of the earth's crust due to the weight of the ice sheets. The maps showing glacial lakes that Nick has been displaying in the video place the lakes close to the ice sheet margin where the depressed crust would be most evident. Of course erosion by glacial activity would contribute to the formation of bodies of water.
Always fun Nick. As a child I traveled through eastern Washington many times to Grandmas house from Puyallup to Milton Freewater Oregon. The dramatic landscape mesmerized me….. how big, how dramatic, a giant stage…….. something happened but what? Now I know. Thank you ❤
Don't tease us Nick!! Now you must make a video about why there are coulees in the west, but not the east side. Thanks for these great videos. Truly enjoy learning with you.
Loved this. Nice work sir, the implications of this idea are far reaching. More and more people are jumping on board every day, the ice dam that is the standard model is struggling under the pressure of the truth.
The talus height age metric would require the upper and lower basalts to have similar weathering rates. They look like they have different properties. It would also require that both cliffs are exposed to the same weathering processes (freeze thaw, thermal expansion). The relationship between talus height and cliff height would also have to scale linearly. I'm not sure that all of these conditions are met, it would be interesting to investigate.
Nick... Come to payette area!!! I love watching you. Could not get to riggins, grandchildren scheduling would not allow that. You are awesome. Continue the awesome job you have been doing. Still trying to catch you live.
Fantastic questions and questing! The mind reels at this elegance. I don't think I listened to Bretz enough. Thank you for your inquisitive dedication and ever entertaining instruction!
I’m having so much fun watching your videos Nick! I was a comp sci major, but one of my last classes for gen ed stuff was a geology course I stumbled into. At the time I was in MN and we all took a trip to the St Cloud’s Quarry Park and it always piqued my interest. Live in Colorado now and love exploring the Rockies, but MT to the PNW has always had my heart.
I like the ice sheet down that far and water flowing from the ice sheet doing all the work. I can totally see that. When you put you hand and it was the ice sheet made it easy for to imagine.
I just returned from a trip to Grand Coulee. My earlier trips up Moses Coulee and my latest trip impressed me with the complexity of the geology. I have long wondered what the talus had to tell us. This was helpful. Also growing up in Okanogan I am interested in the Okanogan lobe. I think the role that lobe of ice played in the history is greater than has been discussed. But bottom line, this video has been helpful in making some sense of the puzzle.
Ohhhh, just had a thought, bear with me now.. What if the ice extended down to Wallula Gap dur9ing one of these events older than 20kya and all the erosion took place from subglacial flow. I've always wondered if Loess was formed by ice grinding on rock and there is what appears to be a HUGE moraine that forms Wallula Gap. Plus the terrain between Grand Coulee and Wallula really looks like it was under ice at one point. I remember as a kid seeing a similar texture under snow in the spring, but on a much smaller scale.
I'll be looking for that trailhead when spring returns. Maybe sooner! Let me know if anyone else is up for a hike! I need to check out the Potholes Coulee too. I have been wanting to obtain some of this talus for landscaping around my home. ;-) Tom in Wenatchee
I’ve been flying over the flood zone for 36 years since college days at Central, now professionally, which means many years staring at these amazing features from above. Moses Coulee always puzzled me because it doesn’t have any inflow from the Columbia like Grand Coulee. If you look at elevations all around the north end of Moses Coulee, it’s consistently at Waterville plateau heights. The idea that Missoula floods carved it never added up. There’s some rough ground halfway down both coulees (still at the same general elevation) where one could imagine spillover from Grand to Moses, but that doesn’t account for the upper Moses channel. Watching these videos, it now seems clear that the Spokane ice drainage must have been the source. Thanks professor Zentner for the enlightenment!
Once again Nick forwards the ball. Always great! Three thoughts. a.) The physical challenge of moving overland through the floodscape is no small feat. Upon leaving the valley floor one is immediately confronted with Class III terrain (hands and feet). Its false to assume post-Bretz researchers ever walked it all out. How many mountaineers in that group? b.) Once one commits to reading Bretz's papers carefully, its difficult to return. You feel exhausted (at least I do). So much to consume. So many voyages and return visits where small details were added. Someone needs to take a pair of scissors to the stack and clip out each mention of Moses Coulee and paste all those into one document. Do the same for his sailings into the Upper Grand Coulee, Cheney-Palouse tract, Quincy Basin, Canada, etc. Compile 'chapters' of his explorations by location. c.) Sharpie in that Spokane ice termination on the IAFI map if you get a chance, even if dashed. Delineate the northern limit of thick loess, not morainal deposits.
I like the idea exploration a lot Nick. Side note, I like the idea of the live streams on the road, but I don't want to give up these high resolution walk and talks as well. - cheers
I have to say going from the map to the size and scale of the coulee in person really hammers home the volume of water we are talking about. seeing the maps alone just doesn't do it justice thanks for taking us out into the field!
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This Is So Amazing, And Beautiful. I Absolutely Love Your Geologically Intellectual Walks & Travels. We Have Been Exploring With You For Years, And It Would Be An Absolute Treasure To Walk & Learn From You. We're All Nerds Here! 💜
Summer of 71 I worked on a large cattle ranch in the Moses Cooley. Hiway 2 ran across it. Fell in love with the geology, and really enjoy your work!
So many unanswered questions. What a time to be alive! ❤
I could weep at finding such a fine teacher. Using different colors of inks and then holding the pens up in front of the on-the-ground evidence is so simple and direct.
I feel your pain in questioning how Bretz has been pushed aside by more recent work. I face the same in my field. What I learned makes sense, works, and gets wonderful results, but newer ideas presented by those trying to make their marks in the field poo-poo my standards. I am not willing to accept the newer 'alternative facts'.
I follow your videos as much as I can. I know so much about WA geology thanks to you. I wish there were work like yours relating to my local NY geology. The pacific northwest is so lucky to have you.
Nick, you are setting a great example for your students as well as us older folks. Stay open to new information and keep a fresh mind ... so important!
New AND old viewpoints. It's always worth keeping other and older views in mind.
@@anthonynicholson5523The Past Is How We Learn The Future... Keeping The Work Of Those Who Came Before Fresh In Our Minds Is How Breakthroughs Are Made, Little Hints Of The Past Complete The Picture Of The Present & Teach Valuable Lessons For The Coming Years.
What I like about this is that for the most of the internet everyone is coming at you with answers, but this guy is giving you questions about the answers. This is a true teacher at the top of his game. Nick Zentner is the Wallace Stegner of geology weaving rocks and prose into a unique teaching style getting you to ask why and how.
Thank you for this meaningful comment.
Then Adding Another Layer In Asking Whether Why & How Are Correct, Or Just Pieces In A Bigger Story... This Is Just An Amazing Science, That I Completely Adore, The Depth Of Curiosity Never Quenching My Thirst.
Nick, thank you, so much. We are so lucky to live in Yakima Washington. Learning about what formed the regions we have grown up with. And how lucky we are to have so much of our area untouched.
17:20 One thing I noticed is that the top of the cliff from the Spokane flood has some pretty severe elevation changes, while the Wisconsin flood is a relatively flat top. Kinda what you'd expect from a mega flood gouging untouched land first, and then a big flood coming along later to gouge out the bottom of the canyon left from the first flood.
Absolutely Great !!!! My brain is now just firing all over the place Thanks !!!
An ancient mystery for sure Nick. To sit there a ponder for hours and days at a time like Bretz did. I think he new what he was talking about. He was in the country there with zero distractions with clear and sober thoughts. He translated it the best he could to paper. Your mastery Nick is to bring those words off the page and paint that picture for us common folk. Well done sir.
You tell us you're 'only' a teacher. First of all you shouldn't talk yourself down like that. Teachers are essential for the development of the next generations. And as far as I know you, and having seen the way you teach during lockdown, I hold you in the highest regard as a teacher. Your pupils' minds are richer because of you. So thank thank you from the bottom of my heart on their behalf. And yes, I know that guests in your videos (like Jerome Lesemann) are excellent teachers as well, but now I am talking (writing) about you for a change
Second, in videos like this you show that you have a real scientific mind. Open to multiple views, asking questions that inspire us to achieve more insight in the world around us.
So to me you are a real gem!
Love from Dreischor in The Netherlands.
Nick writes with chalk on a chalkboard, has calloused hands, can swing a geology hammer, teaches in the open sun and wind, and walks in the bare open rocks and fields.
A real geologist.
Thank you for doing all this for us amateur geology enthusiasts.
All the rattlesnakes were probably saying “hi Nick “ as he passed. Could smell the sagebrush as you were walking. Love Moses coulee and the palisades.
We need a resurgence of the kind of thinking that you have recently been up to, Nick, in many aspects of our collective thinking. We are all eternal students. Anyone who thinks that they are not, are just kidding themselves. I love the videos, keep it up, please.
This is some of the most fantastic video clarity that I have ever seen. Thanks!!
Agreed. Absolutely amazing!
Thank you very much, Sir.
Bravo DrNick, this is a great opener for other ideas. I am not familiar with the discussion of four US states in regard to ice sheets. Being in Washington, I thought it might be related to that State.
When I visited central Washington last summer (August) for the first time, I confess I was just as impressed with Moses Coulee as I was with Dry Falls and the lower Grand Coulee. I didn't see, and wasn't aware of, the trailhead you used. Not a geologist (only an elderly amateur) I don't know (but I'm trying to learn) the details, but remain impressed by the SCALE of the events that created both coulees. In hindsight, I'm still impressed by the regularity of those hanging valleys marching upvalley into the distance on both sides of the coulee. I've walked (as well as I could) plenty of talus slopes hiking in the Rockies in years past. Not terribly enthused about doing it again. Yes, I'd like to see a map showing Bretz's Spokane ice, and a comparison with the Wisconsin ice. A non-geologist, I don't know enough to be able to help with the dates of the four major glacial episodes in the Pacific Northwest you mentioned… Thanks, Nick, for the additional food for thought. One more reason to get back out there before I'm too old and frail to travel and hike.
This trailhead is hard to find. I've lived here all my life and explore the Coulee extensively, and just found it I 2016
Love how you use the colored pens to illustrate the different ice ages on paper and real life! 🖊️🖊️ Thank you for posting these papers, so more of us can read Bretz's writings. Love being able to better interpret these important places.
Its amazing when the perspective changes about these events, and we see actually just how close we are to these events still! Ur à Malone i see...too funny.
Your work here, for us, is greatly appreciated. If not for your dedication and diligence, we’d be poorer for it. You’ve gotten quite good at sharing with this format, and it shows.
Thank you, sir.
Beautifully done. Thank you for doing this, and bringing an open mind to this problem! Science is NEVER settled.
I live on the other side of the globe in Sweden. This is just so fascinating to me! Sweden also saw some great reconstruction of the basement rocks in the latest ice age, but there were so many episodes before this that wiped out so much geologic history! We tend to forget the ice ages that came before!
There are still some sanctuaries in Sweden, for instance there are ancient "Jotnian" sandstones on an island in the lake Mälaren still to this day. Then we have the Gävle-sandstone that survived so many ice floods and glaciers. And we have all the crazy erratics that tell of a violent tale.
The main difference between the PNW and Sweden is that we haven't really seen volcanic activity for the last few hundred millions of years.
Where I live in Stockholm, Sweden, we have ancient sandstones (wackes) that have been uplifted from some ancient sea floor, as well as gabbroids and plutonic rocks (granites and granitoids, some of them metamorphosed). All of these rocks are older than 1.7 GY.
Sweden was located at the Nth Pole, before the planet tipped off it's Axis. I remember reading about a study into that ya.
You’re an amazing educator! Thanks for all you do!
My whole life I have looked in amazement at the two deepest and most massive features in all of north-central Washington (Moses Coulee and Grand Coulee ). Both are the furthest away from the Lake Missoula flood waters as far as the waters flow from the east. My small ranch is supposedly one of those features of the Missoula flood in the spring canyon area , I look at it every day, This is so exciting to have you exploring the whole picture with an open mind. The cubic Miles of ice that was in the ice sheet were astronomical in volume. I watch videos from Iceland and realize how much could be learned by studying their current ongoing geology. This is great, Thank you.
Thank you sir ... I love your content . My mother is Linda Marmes . Her father Roland owned the land that the Marmes rock shelter is located on... I know this landscape well ..
I was blessed as a beginning anthropology student to be taken to the Marmes shelter near the end of the digging there. The last skeleton was found the day I was there. I have thought of that trip since starting to study with Nick. Best wishes to your family.
Doc I want to thank you for your teaching and learned zeal for geology. I’m just a lay guy from Oklahoma that loves this stuff!!! I’ve been studying the mountains south of Oklahoma City and the Turner Falls area. It’s absolutely fascinating to me that our mountains came from the Teton Region. Thanks for what you are doing teaching the history of the earth. Many blessings your way
The talus runs way up the cliffs leading to Sentinel Gap, but not as high on the cliffs across from Vantage. That old flood channel map is great!
Thanks Nick for turning me on to the “classic” writings of early Geology. I’m currently reading Condon’s The Two Islands and although there is so much that has been learned since then, the writing is just so evocative and thrilling, this BA (English) appreciates it very much!
I graduated from WSU in 94 and one of my favorite classes was Geology. I used to come back to the dorm room and tell my friends about the cliffs around and other features on how they were formed, etc. The conversation would usually drift into something else and I would always jump back in with, "Anyway....back to my rock topic." It still today is used in conversations jokingly with those same life long friends that I made there. Washington State truly is a masterpiece of Geology formations. This is so fun to watch you break open a new/old theory from Bretz. It really makes a ton of sense just looking at it from where you are there in the video.
Just visited Grand Coulee last week.
Amazing project
I’m old and in the way, enjoy your videos. Well presented and you willingness to adapt your understanding is laudable.
Food for thought Nick. 100 years from now, will todays geological field research be tossed aside? It happened to Bretz in the last 100 years. Keep up the great work sir.
Elderly UCDavis physiology grad here, loving your specific presentations on rocks. Thank you for leaving your beloved and critter’s (Bijou) sides to explore and query this very exciting recovered, if you will, information. To see you as a curious child, plus watching your brain sift and reweigh the evidence is illuminating - it’s real time not geological time!! How exciting to witness this joy in you. Thank you for streaming and sharing. Thank you to Liz for keeping you happy and for sharing you. You rock!! Cheers!
Glad I stumbled across your channel. I am really enjoying your lectures and discussions. I am a rank novice but enjoy learning and appreciate your skills as an instructor.
Looks like your the newest freshest Zentnerd to join the group. Welcome Scot.
Welcome to the insane asy---er, classroom....! We have loads of fun here, now, past, and in the future is much anticipated.
Enjoy!
Very thought provoking Nick. Definitely something to chew on. 🐻
I love that your teaching method is we are all learning including yourself. Thank you!
That is a great trail that despite my many years exploring the Coulee only discovered in 2016. The interesting thing that i don't know if anyone knows about is that above the Columbia River near the Coulee are caves. A guy i know was brave enough to climb to a couple of these which isn't advisable. He found a number of artifacts that were very interesting as to methods of production.
As an Aussie over the pond, I love learning geology history from all over. Great Video as always Nick.
Thank you for all the work you do and all these videos that you put out! As a Washington resident, it makes me love this area more.
"Wow, this is really fun"...he says near the end of the video. I can only imagine!
What a wonderful "job" you have and what a super teacher you are.
I sat here soaking up every word.
The PLOT THICKENS. I love it.
Thank you for doing what you do.
I love Nick. He makes my brain fizz.
Love your teaching style. And I’m not even a student of geology. I could be, with you peaking my interest in the evolution of our planetary rock.
I’m an oversized load escort and I get to travel all over Wa state and love these videos it’s opened my eyes !
It took me a moment to realize how you were presenting Bretz's theories of the floods...I was thinking with the Law of Superposition, which would place oldest at the lower portion and youngest at the top, but when you think of flooding it had to be the other way around. You have to remove the youngest rock with the oldest floods, and the oldest rocks with the youngest floods...Thank you Dr. Zentner.
Had the same difficulty...then I flipped my phone over and all became clearer....🤣🙄😛🤣🤣
Well more simply put , it is erosion vs deposition , each with time and gravity at play .
I'm thinking much of this early channel carving would have been done with ice though , instead of water doing much of the initial work .
Hi, You asked about ice ages in Europe, this is a broad outline for German language geology.
In the German language we have to sets of names, one for the Northern and one for the Alpine Ice Sheet. All names are derived from river names. (Partly they are actually small, insignificant streams, that are hard to remember.)
This is a list of the last 4 ice ages, northern names first:
Weichsel/ Würm 115.000-10.000 BC
Saale/ Riß 300.000-126.000.
Elster/ Mindel 460.000-320.000
Elbe/ Günz 600.000 bis 800.000
For Weichsel/ Würm we have a first big push of the ice shield in the north starting about 70.000 BC, corresponding to MIS 4. The max. expansion is uncertain. In the alps there is even more uncertainty if there was extended glaciation at this time. From banded silt and clay layers we know, that in the time period 31.600- 26.800 BC the area of Innsbruck in the Austrian Alps was ice free.
In the second push, corresponding to MIS 2 the ice in the north reached nearly everywhere further then in the first on. The maximum was around 20.000 to 18.000 BC. In the alps the core of Würm glaciation started around 25.000 BC and hit it's maximum around 20.000 BC.
For MSI see .
So even in the relative small arena between Germany's northern and southern borders, there were differences how the global trends played out. I think this gets much more interesting if one looks further east, from Poland to Siberia.
Thanks - you are teaching me how to question - not follow the crowd - think differently - appreciate you! And not just for geology …
thanks Nick for your time.. i really enjoyed.. de a truck driver from NJ
these reexaminations are great! That area you are in looks a lot like the The Deschutes River Canyon North of SteelHead Falls
Thanks Nick, I always follow your excursions on maps when possible. Too interesting!
Professor! I never knew that Washington State was such a jewel! Thank you!
WOW, wow, I could see that the floods from Spoken Icesheet could have been more huge and curved the major channels than the floods from Wisconsin Icesheet✨😄💗Way way too cool!!!! Thanks, Nick for wondering with us!!✨
As an old geology guy, I enjoy your videos. On the subject of Ice Age Floods, you would do everyone a service by referring them to the outstanding books by Bruce Bjornstad and Eugene Kiver. By far the best and most informative volumes I've read on the topic. Lots of maps, photos, diagrams and road trip guides, with clear and concise text are invaluable for anyone wishing to expand their understanding of these monumental events. I highly recommend them.
Nick: There should be a companion hydraulic modeling analyses and rock erosion analyses of the four ice age floods.
I’m having fun watching these. Infectious enthusiasm is coming across nicely. Great work! Keep ‘em coming.❤
Major glaciations in the US from oldest to youngest are Nebraskan, Kansan, Illinoian, and Wisconsin.
"How much is our globe in-synch?" What a great question. I've spent time at Big Bend National Park in Texas. The evidence of water in the Chisos Desert is profound. I've tried to imagine how that much water (in what is today a desert) plagued the southwest. But in the desert, that is never the interest, sadly. Yet there is such great evidence of massive flooding. Certainly during the Wisconsin, the flooding of SW Texas was profound. It would make a great geologic study. I look forward to meeting you in August with Basil in Idaho. Perhaps we can discuss briefly then.
You're indeed a true student and magnificent teacher Sir! I'm sure you have heard, but I'm going to mention it anyway that there is evidentiary deposits in the upper fingers of lake Missoula suggesting they were layed down by a current flowing up the valleys rather than down. This may tell us that lake Missoula was rapidly filled possibly by the same flood that shaped the scab lands and the lake was only part of the story. Thank you for your time and for bringing geology to vivid life. :)
How fun and interesting to tag along as you think about Bretz's ideas. Fascinating story, beautiful scenery, great teacher! :)
What a terrific video history presentation. There’s something here for all.
that's some impressively steady camera movement. Great explanation of the beautiful scenery as usual:) the Bretz 1,000 mile traverse in 1922 , 2000 mile in 1923, is amazing too.
One thing that would be useful to know is the present rate of talus deposition. You can use the size of lichen to determine how long a rock has lain undisturbed. Survey a swath of talus surface. Some rocks will be bare, just recently fallen. The age of the oldest unburied rocks should tell you the rate at which new rock has been falling.
Another vicarious hike through an ancient landscape. Loved the clattering and clinking of the talus as you clambered up the slope...thoroughly enjoyable.
Professor Zentner, 95% of my interest and knowledge in the geology of the scablands has been derived from watching your videos the last several years. For that I thank you. The primary question I have from this video regarding the discussion of the Spokane vs the Wisconsin events: Doesn't the current uniformity of the Spokane (higher) talus deposits necessarily mean they are the result of accumulation after the Wisconsin events (or Missoula floods)? I say this because it seems to me the immense volume of water required to carve the younger/smaller Wisconsin cut would have swept away all of the pre-Wisconsin talus buildup along the canyon walls. I would like to hear from anyone with an opinion. Thank you.
Regarding the talus aprons as clues to their relative and absolute age. If one assumes a fairly constant rate of deposition of talus from the wall, then it would seem to be a fairly straight-forward calculation to estimate the age of the upper channel as a multiple of the lower channel, based on the volume of talus. If the rate of talus deposition per linear meter of vertical wall is about the same for the upper and lower wall, then the variables that account for the size of a cross section of the talus apron are 1. height of the wall above that cross section, and 2. time. Knowing that the Missoula floods were ~18,000 years ago, and measuring the lower wall height and talus cross section, one should be able to calculate, roughly, how far in the past the older flood was. One wrinkle in the rate of talus deposition is that, at the start of deposition, forces of erosion might need some time to alter the basalt enough to the point that the talus starts coming off in earnest. In other words, at first the rate might be quite low compared later into the erosion process.
A second wrinkle might be whether the talus comes mostly from the top portions of the wall, or from all heights of the wall roughly equally. That's a question of understanding how the basalt weathers. If the talus comes mainly from the upper areas, then the rate of deposition would be roughly constant. But if it comes from all heights roughly equally, then (all other things being equal) the rate of deposition would slow over time as the apron height increases, reducing the amount of exposed wall available to contribute talus.
Thoughts of a rank amateur. But it's fun to think about!
Nice scenery for your very informativer talk, very interesting thought of the talus as a dating tool - kinda like tree rings maybe in my mind. Have a great night Nick!
Exciting episode! Family matters have kept me away from geology for a few weeks but I have time and will finish what I had started to prepare for you on Thomas Large, Bretz, Pardee et al. I have lots and lots of news clippings and a little timeline. Maybe there will be something in there that will be a trigger for you. I do know that there was talk in some news articles of older glaciations around Spokane with some dates suggested. As I listened to this video I immediately thought of my experience driving up in back of Jumpoff Ridge last weekend to Stephens meadow. Naneum ridge towers over the back side of the meadow. On the way we passed a steep talus slope very close to the road that looks like it could be as old as the top one in Moses Coulee (ie Spokane age talus) and would be part of the same Grande Ronde flow layer. I wish I had taken a photo. It is supposed to rain tomorrow so I will have some time to wrap up the documents and news clippings and get them off to you. By the way, after my research I have dubbed Thomas Large the Nick Zentner of his time - you will see why when you get the documents. Thanks for posting the early Bretz papers - I had been unsuccessfully trying to locate copies online! Looking forward to diving into them, but first the documents, lol.
One more thought - when you were talking about how far down Bretz had the earlier glacier lobes it seemed logical to me that that glaciation event would have carved out the trough that then later filled up during the Wisconsin melting to become glacial Lake Columbia. Just amateur musings.
The troughs in which glacial lakes formed are depressions of the earth's crust due to the weight of the ice sheets. The maps showing glacial lakes that Nick has been displaying in the video place the lakes close to the ice sheet margin where the depressed crust would be most evident. Of course erosion by glacial activity would contribute to the formation of bodies of water.
Always a pleasure to learn from you Nick! Thank you!
Always fun Nick.
As a child I traveled through eastern Washington many times to Grandmas house from Puyallup to Milton Freewater Oregon. The dramatic landscape mesmerized me….. how big, how dramatic, a giant stage…….. something happened but what?
Now I know.
Thank you ❤
Beautiful morning light and thought provoking ideas
You present amazing questions. Let me get back to you on that. Facts indicate amazing events!❤
Fires are breaking out in bc, and the pnw, be safe professor Your the best
Enjoy seeing you learning, and by osmosis then I do. I can only imagine how much water flowed - mind boggling!!!
Don't tease us Nick!! Now you must make a video about why there are coulees in the west, but not the east side. Thanks for these great videos. Truly enjoy learning with you.
I've watched many Nick videos. You'll never see rocks the same!
I love these talks it make you truly open your mind and eyes to what could have happen
Loved this. Nice work sir, the implications of this idea are far reaching. More and more people are jumping on board every day, the ice dam that is the standard model is struggling under the pressure of the truth.
I don't have any answers but I'm happy to be along for the ride. I can't wait to hear more!
Out there doing the good work. Thank you for the time and energy you're putting into this project. We love you too.
The talus height age metric would require the upper and lower basalts to have similar weathering rates. They look like they have different properties. It would also require that both cliffs are exposed to the same weathering processes (freeze thaw, thermal expansion). The relationship between talus height and cliff height would also have to scale linearly. I'm not sure that all of these conditions are met, it would be interesting to investigate.
Nick... Come to payette area!!! I love watching you. Could not get to riggins, grandchildren scheduling would not allow that. You are awesome. Continue the awesome job you have been doing. Still trying to catch you live.
Using different color Lidar images to represent Spokane and Wisconsin floods of Moses and Grand Coulee's might be nice to observe. Thanks Nick!
The best way to learn something is to teach it to others 🙂
Fantastic questions and questing! The mind reels at this elegance. I don't think I listened to Bretz enough. Thank you for your inquisitive dedication and ever entertaining instruction!
Fascinating. Never disregard past validities. Build upon the information and adapt accordingly..
I’m having so much fun watching your videos Nick! I was a comp sci major, but one of my last classes for gen ed stuff was a geology course I stumbled into. At the time I was in MN and we all took a trip to the St Cloud’s Quarry Park and it always piqued my interest. Live in Colorado now and love exploring the Rockies, but MT to the PNW has always had my heart.
I like the ice sheet down that far and water flowing from the ice sheet doing all the work. I can totally see that. When you put you hand and it was the ice sheet made it easy for to imagine.
The image is so sharp it looks like i am their in person!
I just returned from a trip to Grand Coulee. My earlier trips up Moses Coulee and my latest trip impressed me with the complexity of the geology. I have long wondered what the talus had to tell us. This was helpful. Also growing up in Okanogan I am interested in the Okanogan lobe. I think the role that lobe of ice played in the history is greater than has been discussed. But bottom line, this video has been helpful in making some sense of the puzzle.
Ohhhh, just had a thought, bear with me now.. What if the ice extended down to Wallula Gap dur9ing one of these events older than 20kya and all the erosion took place from subglacial flow. I've always wondered if Loess was formed by ice grinding on rock and there is what appears to be a HUGE moraine that forms Wallula Gap. Plus the terrain between Grand Coulee and Wallula really looks like it was under ice at one point. I remember as a kid seeing a similar texture under snow in the spring, but on a much smaller scale.
I'll be looking for that trailhead when spring returns. Maybe sooner! Let me know if anyone else is up for a hike! I need to check out the Potholes Coulee too. I have been wanting to obtain some of this talus for landscaping around my home. ;-)
Tom in Wenatchee
Proposal accepted and research never ends. Thanks Nik😮
I’ve been flying over the flood zone for 36 years since college days at Central, now professionally, which means many years staring at these amazing features from above. Moses Coulee always puzzled me because it doesn’t have any inflow from the Columbia like Grand Coulee. If you look at elevations all around the north end of Moses Coulee, it’s consistently at Waterville plateau heights. The idea that Missoula floods carved it never added up. There’s some rough ground halfway down both coulees (still at the same general elevation) where one could imagine spillover from Grand to Moses, but that doesn’t account for the upper Moses channel. Watching these videos, it now seems clear that the Spokane ice drainage must have been the source. Thanks professor Zentner for the enlightenment!
Thank you so much for educating us! I grew up in Ephrata so it is so cool learning about the area where I grew up at.
Good show....👍
entertaining & informative.
Great presentation. Food for thought.
This is a good one ! mr. Z you are going right at it!
Not pretentious Nick. I admire your courage to directly ask for help with global glaciation. Braveheart!
It's bagful for me, for sure. Thank you for your ongoing thoughts and reconsiderations!
Wow Nick,
That Coulee is my favorite place to be. I will never look at it the same way I used to when hiking the area! Did anyone say “Snake!” Lol
Once again Nick forwards the ball. Always great! Three thoughts. a.) The physical challenge of moving overland through the floodscape is no small feat. Upon leaving the valley floor one is immediately confronted with Class III terrain (hands and feet). Its false to assume post-Bretz researchers ever walked it all out. How many mountaineers in that group? b.) Once one commits to reading Bretz's papers carefully, its difficult to return. You feel exhausted (at least I do). So much to consume. So many voyages and return visits where small details were added. Someone needs to take a pair of scissors to the stack and clip out each mention of Moses Coulee and paste all those into one document. Do the same for his sailings into the Upper Grand Coulee, Cheney-Palouse tract, Quincy Basin, Canada, etc. Compile 'chapters' of his explorations by location. c.) Sharpie in that Spokane ice termination on the IAFI map if you get a chance, even if dashed. Delineate the northern limit of thick loess, not morainal deposits.
I like the idea exploration a lot Nick. Side note, I like the idea of the live streams on the road, but I don't want to give up these high resolution walk and talks as well. - cheers
I have to say going from the map to the size and scale of the coulee in person really hammers home the volume of water we are talking about. seeing the maps alone just doesn't do it justice thanks for taking us out into the field!