Figured that would happen. Imagine it's also a by-product of the fact that in trying to save weight, the TRS rail itself is not stiff enough and is flexing.
Bipods are designed with "free floating" barrel systems in mind. The barrel stiffner introduces the equivalent of a barrel touching the rifle stock on a traditional centerfire rifle and the user "loading" an Atlas, Harris or other styled bipod - flexing the stock and affecting barrel harmonics. The air tank is the best place for any 'external' stabilization attempt on the setup shown in the video because it seems optimal when the handguard and barrel are 'attached' with stiffner. The air tank/bottle is not 'connected' to the barrel in a manner that affects barrel harmonics so the bag should give best results without POI shifts.
Good video mate , this confirms what I thought would be the case if I fitted one to my M3. On the face of it if you was just shooting benchrest or using the bipod all the time then it wouldn't be an issue but with my style of shooting I sometimes find It's much more convenient to use a bag instead of the bipod and having a POI shift isn't good enough when pest controlling.
Hi very good content... 👏👏👏👏👏I was advised some guys a few weeks, on one of my Air group about attach the TRS top rail the barrel clamp to stiff the barrel... It's just a cosmetic... I prefer backbone makes all gun stiff and solid and Hein Frommann system to stiff the barrel. I'm going to share it with them now...
Thanks, yes with the TRS the barrel is a lot more protected against bumps and scuffs if you do walk and stalk style shooting. Once I moved back to under bore bipod or bag rider with barrel clamp installed. My setup was perfect again. Will post 220m shots on my next video with my std M3.
That was quite interesting. I didn't expect so much POI shift. Some, yes. Your group sizes all look about the same. I'm in the middle of a build using an AR-10 style platform, specifically the "DPMS" pattern with Aero Precision M5E1 receivers and 15" hand guard. I got the UTG Overbore because I want the stability. My barrel is chambered for the 308 Winchester cartridge. It looks like I can expect a large point of shift shooting off hand rather than with the bipod support. The rifle is on the heavy side. But I would still like to be able to shoot it off hand for competitions that require it.
@@klaasdebeer9833 Yeah. I saw him demonstrate that. My barrel is much stiffer! Although it flexed an enormous amount when I was installing the muzzle brake. Made me a bit nervous actually. But it looks like I didn't damage anything.
I’m trying to make sense of your observations . Just about anything you place on the shroud that Carrie’s the barrel will show a different impact due to weight and droop . Also it would change harmonics . Try taking the barrel band off as well and see your results . My only concern with the Impact has always been the flimsy two Allen screws and larger front Allen screw holding the rail that holds the scope . You are now asking it to hold the scope, barrel and bipod . Just saying .
I assumed this would happen but that is also why the barrel tensioning kit is a CRUCIAL piece of equipment. (Currently only available for sponsored shooters, lil suspect considering SOME people got to use all the upgrades at RMAC and others didn't....but) The TRS rail isn't made the way it should be in my opinion. The way the Backbone top rail goes the ENTIRE length of the gun and stiffens the whole gun is a much better design. Too bad it's ugly. These 2 pieces need to merge.
As cool as the overbore bipods look, I’ll continue using my underbore Accutac as I have the standard length TRS rail on its way to me now and felt it’ll support and not alter my current setup
I shoot left handed and I was wondering your opinion on the magazine location and the left hand shooter's chin/cheek placement. I was considering the use of a Left Hand Cheek Support.
Obviously that product is crap . I'm glad you made this video. ty I bet the AirMarksman don't do that. also I don't understand the draw to over the muzzle bipods. I understand the theory but in a flimsy gun i don't see that working. Accutac makes wide base arca bipods that are amazing. I think someone was just trying to reinvent the wheel. over the muzzle bipods don't look as cool either so that's a big minus to me.
that's sounds like the way the FX is built with aftermarket rail not sturdy enough. not the bipod fault. Those half top rails seem to be issue now if built like a true are rail/handgaurd would be much more fidget and limit the twisting
Actually i dont see a problem with the rail but by using the optional barrel band itself, you missed the group shooting without the barrel band using shooting bags and you would see that the point of impact is the same that using the bipod without the barrel band, i have always think that every rifle is for one purpose if youre using it for only bench rest maybe you can use it with the barrel band and bipod and it always going to shoot the same way, but if you are using it for prs that you shoot in different positions i wouldnt use the barrel band so that doesnt affect your poi
I did that when i installed the rail. but my grouping was terrible, and i missed soooo many shots, thats when i started looking what was the cause of the problem. this video is the explained what i found...
You didn't do a shot with the rifle just sat on the bag with out the barrel band which will give you another impact point it obvious you will get different POI if you change the way how you support your rifle.
I don't see an issue here besides pushing your barrel around. Added weight or contact will cause this no matter what. Pick a set up and shoot it, switch and rezero by a few clicks.
lol top mounts bipod on freefloat barrel and expects no POI shift. OH LAWD that is rich. Easy fix here if you don't want to change where you mount the bi-pod. 3d print a piece that rund from the bottom rail and locks into the top rail around the air tank. this will change where the load is handled by the shroud. Ideally you woulld make it "V" shaped to really move the load off of the barrel.
Figured that would happen. Imagine it's also a by-product of the fact that in trying to save weight, the TRS rail itself is not stiff enough and is flexing.
Bipods are designed with "free floating" barrel systems in mind. The barrel stiffner introduces the equivalent of a barrel touching the rifle stock on a traditional centerfire rifle and the user "loading" an Atlas, Harris or other styled bipod - flexing the stock and affecting barrel harmonics. The air tank is the best place for any 'external' stabilization attempt on the setup shown in the video because it seems optimal when the handguard and barrel are 'attached' with stiffner. The air tank/bottle is not 'connected' to the barrel in a manner that affects barrel harmonics so the bag should give best results without POI shifts.
Good video mate , this confirms what I thought would be the case if I fitted one to my M3. On the face of it if you was just shooting benchrest or using the bipod all the time then it wouldn't be an issue but with my style of shooting I sometimes find It's much more convenient to use a bag instead of the bipod and having a POI shift isn't good enough when pest controlling.
True that!!! For me its a proper barrel protector when doing walk and stalk hunting
Hi very good content... 👏👏👏👏👏I was advised some guys a few weeks, on one of my Air group about attach the TRS top rail the barrel clamp to stiff the barrel... It's just a cosmetic... I prefer backbone makes all gun stiff and solid and Hein Frommann system to stiff the barrel.
I'm going to share it with them now...
Thanks, yes with the TRS the barrel is a lot more protected against bumps and scuffs if you do walk and stalk style shooting. Once I moved back to under bore bipod or bag rider with barrel clamp installed. My setup was perfect again.
Will post 220m shots on my next video with my std M3.
@@airgunhuntingsouthafrica4641 great
That was quite interesting. I didn't expect so much POI shift. Some, yes. Your group sizes all look about the same. I'm in the middle of a build using an AR-10 style platform, specifically the "DPMS" pattern with Aero Precision M5E1 receivers and 15" hand guard. I got the UTG Overbore because I want the stability. My barrel is chambered for the 308 Winchester cartridge. It looks like I can expect a large point of shift shooting off hand rather than with the bipod support. The rifle is on the heavy side. But I would still like to be able to shoot it off hand for competitions that require it.
I think it would be a different outcome with a centre fire rifle. The barrel on an airgun has way more flex than a normal rifle.
@@klaasdebeer9833 Yeah. I saw him demonstrate that. My barrel is much stiffer! Although it flexed an enormous amount when I was installing the muzzle brake. Made me a bit nervous actually. But it looks like I didn't damage anything.
Mooi gedoen. Gedink dit sou gebeur. 👍🏻
I’m trying to make sense of your observations . Just about anything you place on the shroud that Carrie’s the barrel will show a different impact due to weight and droop . Also it would change harmonics . Try taking the barrel band off as well and see your results .
My only concern with the Impact has always been the flimsy two Allen screws and larger front Allen screw holding the rail that holds the scope . You are now asking it to hold the scope, barrel and bipod . Just saying .
Yes, did a separate video on removing the barrel band. Completely different results. Placed a video on that yesterday.
I assumed this would happen but that is also why the barrel tensioning kit is a CRUCIAL piece of equipment. (Currently only available for sponsored shooters, lil suspect considering SOME people got to use all the upgrades at RMAC and others didn't....but)
The TRS rail isn't made the way it should be in my opinion. The way the Backbone top rail goes the ENTIRE length of the gun and stiffens the whole gun is a much better design. Too bad it's ugly.
These 2 pieces need to merge.
Saber tactical now has a full length TRS. For the M4 but should work for the previous models also.
@@precision_Air Im glad they finally made this, awesome!! I appreciate the heads up
@@KevinWood44 👍🏻
Nice video mate have heard of this before.
Air Marksman backbone is the only way to go, tightens groups right up and has the lock open ball detent too.
Hi, thank you for the video. R u using 800mm barrel? Is that a 700cc 300 BAR bottle? What Moderator r u using please
Well thank you for the vid I am glad I watched it and now I can happily say I will not order one saves me a few bob
Do you really feel that it shoots better with the barrel clamp versus the floating barrel?? I was thinking of buying the trs, or the barrel tensioned
TRS is definitely a good protector for the barrel, even if you install the tensioner kit, Barrel is not as exposed as without the TRS..
@@airgunhuntingsouthafrica4641 I mainly want it just to increase my accuracy, not to protect the barrel,
Have you installed the barrel stiffener(carbon sleeve) or you could try a carbon shroud to stiffen the barrel aswell and then check the results
As cool as the overbore bipods look, I’ll continue using my underbore Accutac as I have the standard length TRS rail on its way to me now and felt it’ll support and not alter my current setup
I shoot left handed and I was wondering your opinion on the magazine location and the left hand shooter's chin/cheek placement.
I was considering the use of a Left Hand Cheek Support.
Obviously that product is crap . I'm glad you made this video. ty I bet the AirMarksman don't do that. also I don't understand the draw to over the muzzle bipods. I understand the theory but in a flimsy gun i don't see that working. Accutac makes wide base arca bipods that are amazing. I think someone was just trying to reinvent the wheel. over the muzzle bipods don't look as cool either so that's a big minus to me.
Exactly what I was thinking. Anything connected to barrel in anyway is going to cause issues that's why I'm going for the air marksman backbone rail
that's sounds like the way the FX is built with aftermarket rail not sturdy enough. not the bipod fault. Those half top rails seem to be issue now if built like a true are rail/handgaurd would be much more fidget and limit the twisting
Ja thanks.. makes sense.
Good vid. I bought the backbone vs trs, I think it is better design.
time for an airmarksman backbone..... it wont suffer from windage misalignment either... the trs is an accessory, the backbone a component
Actually i dont see a problem with the rail but by using the optional barrel band itself, you missed the group shooting without the barrel band using shooting bags and you would see that the point of impact is the same that using the bipod without the barrel band, i have always think that every rifle is for one purpose if youre using it for only bench rest maybe you can use it with the barrel band and bipod and it always going to shoot the same way, but if you are using it for prs that you shoot in different positions i wouldnt use the barrel band so that doesnt affect your poi
Totally agree with you. Did another test with the overbore bipod, will post video about that soon….
👉💯👍
Why not zero the rifle with the over bore ?
I did that when i installed the rail. but my grouping was terrible, and i missed soooo many shots, thats when i started looking what was the cause of the problem. this video is the explained what i found...
Simple fix is that whatever system you choose. Sight the gun for that. No issues then. Knowing that if you change then must rezero.
You didn't do a shot with the rifle just sat on the bag with out the barrel band which will give you another impact point it obvious you will get different POI if you change the way how you support your rifle.
It is pretty common knowledge that if you ise the overbore tripod you cannot use a barrelclamp because it WILL cause poi shifts.
No way around it.
SO USE THE UGT BIOPOD THAT WAS BEST GROUP
I don't see an issue here besides pushing your barrel around. Added weight or contact will cause this no matter what. Pick a set up and shoot it, switch and rezero by a few clicks.
lol top mounts bipod on freefloat barrel and expects no POI shift. OH LAWD that is rich. Easy fix here if you don't want to change where you mount the bi-pod. 3d print a piece that rund from the bottom rail and locks into the top rail around the air tank. this will change where the load is handled by the shroud. Ideally you woulld make it "V" shaped to really move the load off of the barrel.
Local man discovers why free-floating barrels exist.
You really copied his channel lamo
Who’s channel ?? Either way he’s informing more people
He copied airarmshunting as