ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 เม.ย. 2018
- Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809): Symphony No. 81 in E major, Hob.I:81 (1784)
Giovanni Antonini, Conductor | Kammerorchester Basel
► Please support Haydn2032 by buying our CDs: Amazon (bit.ly/2fNJP8e) / iTunes (apple.co/2gSN6Vv)
HAYDN 2032
107 Haydn symphonies until 2032, Haydns 300th birthday, together with the Basel Chamber Orchestra, Il Giardino Armonico and Giovanni Antonini.
www.haydn2032.com
www.outhere-music.com
www.kammerorchesterbasel.ch
www.ilgiardinoarmonico.com
© HMF Productions (2016)
Producer: Thomas Märki
Sound: Joël Cormier
Editing: Amaury Berger - เพลง
Wonderful and Genial Haydn as it must be played! To like/love Haydn is to Love Life! that's what makes me love Haydn so much! The sheer number of his ideas, inventivity, full of surprises, is jawdropping! Great Haydn! Forever Haydn Master of Music as A Path to Life! Master of imense masters! The Giardino again rules with Antonini leading in his unique, wonderful way!
Giovanni Antonini is sharing these performances of the complete cycle between Il Giardino Armonico and Kammerorchester Basel; in this case it’s the latter, not the former,
That is some of the best performed Haydn symphonies I've heard. Bravo. It brings back the adventure of wanting to hear every Haydn symphony as a youth.
1st mvmnt 0:13
2nd mvmnt 9:25
3rd mvmnt 16:25
4th mvmnt 19:30
Когда жизнь кажется бессмысленной-слушаю любую из 104 симфоний этого Мастера и легчает. Такая светлая музыка!
Тем более в таком чудесном исполнении.
@@user-jl5wi2gb1e спасибо за комментарий. Благодаря ему напомнили мне полечить Октябрьскую хандру музыкой )
Awesome!!!
😮
何と美しい第2楽章でしょう。
つい何回でも聴いてしまいます。
107曲もあるハイドンの交響曲のうちで私は今までにその僅かを聴いたにすぎませんが、その中でもこの曲の第2楽章は最高に美しい、優しさに満ちた緩徐曲でしょう。特に主題とその後の変奏曲がいい。
Lively, energetic, full of humour.
Terrific performance of a lesser known but astonishing symphony. The energy is electric from Antonini and his band.
Браво! Мне кажется, что эта музыка одна из самых жизнерадостных. Прослушала дважды. Спасибо!
Hören wir weiter 😂so lange es geht ❤❤❤
Extraordinary approach, sound, posture (!), technique, thesis. This is gold.
Fascinierend!Ewigkeit!! Ocean von Haydn!!!Herzlichen Dank....
Giovanni Antonini's way is persuasive - visceral Haydn for modern times ...
You can tell that Giovanni Antonini is not only an excellent conductor for the beautiful musical performance of the orchestra but also a very good motivational leader for how fulfilled and inspired the musicians seem to be by looking at their body language.
😊ich kann Ihnen nur vollkommen zustimmen ❤Er ist der Beste 💥
One of Haydn's best works! The orchestra is commendable, there is fire burning at the center of this performance, everything becomes forgivable!
I agree with you. The conductor has a passion for the compositions of Haydn! And not only that, this work (especially the final movement) is so energetic and full of life!
Is there anything specific you would like to forgive?
Es ist , meine Meinung nach, nichts zu verzeihen. Oder nur schlechte Übersetzung???
Bravo 👏👏Antoninni, Bäsel,Church bells 🙌🌌
Kammerorchester Basel has made me love Haydn
Музыка Й. Гайдна всегда доставляет наслаждение. Дж. Антонини, как всегда, очень выразителен. Вот есть же люди, которых не портит возраст. Что нужно? Хороший костюм, пышная шевелюра и увлеченность своим делом.
Гайдн великий композитор и сомнений быть не может. Сочинять такую божественную музыку могут только
гении. Я уже не говорю о количестве сочиненных симфоний. Оркестру также великая благодарность за
прекрасное исполнение произведения. Дирижер вне сомнения знает как добиться таких результатов.
Вам всем огромное спасибо.Привет из Киева.
What?????
Росія: бегоне!
Always bright and fresh! Forever Haydn!
Andante, in love with Haydn!
It seems that the musicians enjoy the play. Its very good performance, energetic and alive.
Mercurial original full of wit and humour that is Haydn at his best. So underrated.
BRAVO. BRAVO. Really great
I love this performance
Beatiful
I love the last movement and the way it is performed here with such energy!
9:22, the Second Movement.
I like this conductor. Also love Haydn.
Wonderful 🎼🎶🎶🎶💐💐💐
¡Maravillosa!
Bravo Maestro, this is very, very good again.
It has life and energy but is played in a suave, sophisticated manner matching the composer’s intentions at the time.
Written in 1783/84 at a time when Haydn was relatively cut off at Eszterhaza working as a virtually full-time operatic Kapellmeister, the symphony was written not primarily for Prince Nicholas, but intended, along with numbers 79 and 80 which complete the set, for European wide publishers in Vienna, London, Paris and elsewhere.
It is one of the strangest of phenomena in music that Haydn was rapidly becoming the most famous composer of the age whilst simultaneously, probably being the most isolated.
As such, Haydn was cultivating these foreign audiences with popular works, both easy on the ear but with sufficient in them to keep the connoisseurs interested, for example, the harmonic ambiguity in the opening bars of the first movement - something that was not really happening very often in works by his contemporaries.
In all four movements the tempi are beautifully judged, the trio of the minuet for example has a wonderful lilt to it and the second movement variations flow very naturally.
Haydn has also solved the finale ‘problem’ - something that challenged Mozart too - namely, how to write a final movement that balances the weight of the first two.
In many symphonies of the period, the finale was short and lightweight.
Here, Haydn has built an interesting, substantial finale that does not sound like a first movement - though Antonini perhaps appears to have missed the ‘...ma non troppo’ of the Allegro tempo direction.
Rather like a good cheese or dessert, this finale ends the work in a satisfying modern manner without resorting to, for example, the contrapuntal tricks of the triple fugue finale of Symphony No 70.
The performance here more closely matches an Eszterhaza scale performance; this symphony would without doubt have been performed by far larger forces in London or Paris, and an interesting issue remains for the series as to how far the orchestra is to be supplemented for larger scale symphonies.
In this particular symphony, the smaller scale orchestra is very effective, and the intricate detail and balance in the parts are clearly audible producing a very successful performance as a whole.
Bravi tutti, e grazie mille.
I wonder how the situation was commercially at that time. Existed there some kind of forerunner of authors' rights at that time ? If not, it was well possible Haydn earned nothing by all his magnificent composing. Mozart gave public concerts and got entrance fees for this. H didn't as far as I know.
Christian Wouters
Haydn was comparatively very well paid by the Eszterhazy family from his first appointment in 1761 until his death in 1809:
- either a salary (1761 until the death of Prince Nicholas I in 1790),
- or the pension + salary (1790 until 1809).
Indeed, Haydn’s initial salary as Vice Kapellmeister in 1761 was higher the that of the aged Kapellmeister Gregor Werner.
From 1790, Haydn was in effect a freelance composer who could accept commissions or not as he chose, though there were some minor Eszterhazy duties post-1795.
Haydn additionally received throughout this time, a wide range of additional benefits from the four Eszterhazy princes by whom he was employed. From the death of Prince Nicholas I in 1790 however, he was only nominally employed - he really only composed the final six masses for the family; there were few other duties, and he was given an assistant to do what was needed.
These Eszterhazy ‘perks’ which Haydn received from 1761 until 1809, ranged from food, wine, firewood, candles, music paper, extra payments, clothing allowances, having his fire destroyed house rebuilt (twice), doctors fees paid, et cetera.
Haydn therefore always had a security that Mozart never really had post-Salzburg, and which Beethoven was always seeking.
In 1779, his original 1761 contract was altered allowing him to accept commissions from outside the court and to sell music to publishers.
There was no copyright of any sort so Haydn quickly became a very astute and justifiably quite unscrupulous businessman who frequently sold ‘exclusive’ rights to works to different publishers simultaneously - on one occasion he even put the works in a different order to try to avoid being caught out.
This is one aspect of Haydn’s character that Beethoven unreservedly admired and when he was criticised for doing the same thing, defended himself by saying that it was what Haydn had always done.
Haydn supplemented this income most obviously with the fortune he earned on his two visits to England - he strongly advised Beethoven to end his financial worries by going to London.
Another example of Haydn’s sharp business acumen is the earlier agreement made in the winter of 1784/85 with the Concert de la Loge Olympique in Paris for his six ‘Paris’ symphonies (82 - 87).
It not only netted him five times the rate per symphony Mozart had received for his ‘Paris’ symphony (K297), but he also cut a further deal for a further 5 louis d’or for the publication rights.
On returning from his second London visit, Haydn was dealing with no less than six publishers in England, plus publishers in France, Germany, Amsterdam, Vienna, and elsewhere - all were paying him fees for publication rights.
Like so many things, Mozart and Haydn are in fact very different.
From his move to Vienna in 1781, you are right that Mozart was essentially dependent on selling tickets and publishing works - and loans from friends such as Michael Puchberg.
However, your final sentence is incorrect about Haydn and public concerts, most obviously because that is partly how Haydn made a fortune in England.
Not only in London: on his return to Vienna in 1795, Haydn performed his ‘new’ London symphonies in Vienna, often in concerts with Beethoven performing his B flat piano concerto, then there was the Trumpet Concerto, the Opus 76 string quartets, The Creation, et cetra; in fact, Haydn’s Viennese concert life post-London was extremely busy.
What is true however is that the money he made in London with its much bigger wealthier middle-classes could never have been made in Vienna or anywhere else - as Haydn himself said ‘...only in England is this possible’.
The monarchy, church and aristocracy were far less important, and musically almost irrelevant in England compared to most other places and certainly much less influential than in Vienna; this all made it easier for Haydn to make money from concerts in London, and more difficult for Mozart in a much smaller city.
Pre-1790, Haydn’s situation was contracted and tied to Eszterhaza; post-1790, Haydn first in London, but then in Vienna after his return, he also made money from concerts at which he was very successful, with some of his works - most notably The Creation - extremely successful.
In short, composers had to be businessmen as well as musicians; it was always a struggle for Mozart who never stopped trying to secure a position which would give him better security.
Ultimately, he tried in vain.
Haydn was fortunate that he had both the security, and then the opportunities that always eluded his great friend.
Hope you find that useful and I think it answers the questions you asked.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Thank you. What makes Haydns' achievement even greater is that he had to do it mostly himself. Now a successful pop star has a whole industry at his disposal to promote him and amass money. Haydn had to write 104 symphonies, the pop singer just has to stumble upon a little tune that catches on and lo and behold he becomes a millionaire.
You write "this finale ends the work in a satisfying modern manner without resorting to, for example, the contrapuntal tricks of the triple fugue finale of Symphony No 70". Let me tell you, counterpoint is totally and timelessly present always in the best of music, and that triple fugue is one of Haydn's best creations, where he matches what Mozart did in the Finale of his Jupiter Symphony. To imply that counterpoint is somehow not "modern" is a grave error, as it is always present in many different forms, and the more of it, the better. As opposed to just harmony, the balance and interaction of the two makes the best ingredient for good music. And counterpoint is not a manner or a style, but an instinct, as it manifests itself in register, in orchestration, in rhythm, everywhere.Counterpoint is the antidote of mere materialistic infatuation just with the sensuality of harmony; it is the corollary and sign of the primacy of the spiritual in all great music. And many Finales are testimony to this, as they are real summits, due to counterpoint. This is a possibility, not a prescription.
@@csaponxypan1
As I agree just about 100% with your reply here, it maybe that perhaps you have mistaken my meaning in the use of the word ‘trick’ which has a subtly nuanced secondary meaning in English that does not translate easily, and can be difficult for non-native speakers as it is perhaps clearer in speech than it is in the written word.
Perhaps ‘ploy’, or ‘technique’; ‘device’ or ‘tactic’ makes my meaning clearer.
The only thing I think I would add in explanation, is that perhaps up to the string quartets of Opus 33, Haydn used contrapuntal forms - perhaps better a word than tricks - such as fugues, as a contrast or balance, in an attempt to find a counterweight to the prevailing galant of the age.
From perhaps the string quartets Opus 33, I think Haydn has pretty much perfected ‘a new and special way’ whereby he integrated counterpoint more naturally into his motivic and thematic working-out and development, and as a more integral part of his compositional technique, rather than the stand-alone fugues of Opus 20, or Symphonies 3, 13, and 40.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I do recognise that it was there before as well.
I also believe that one of the most important achievements of both Mozart and Haydn was the integration of the older counterpoint techniques into ‘modern’ sonata type music - it was one of the many crucial developments for which both can be credited.
You raise an interesting, but perhaps separate point about the relative weight of the Finale; again, an area in which both Mozart and Haydn experimented - somewhat in defiance of the spirit of the age, and conventional norms.
Hope that clarifies things, and I am always grateful for the correction of any ‘grave error’ on my part.
As I say, I would dispute almost nothing in your interesting comment; thanks for troubling to reply.
Fantastic performance!!
Me encantan Haydn y Giovanni Antonini . Fascinantes !!
So many details in this piece! The change of mode in the second part of the Trio (love the bassoon solo!) and I like this quick-paced pre-scherzo tempo. The mysterious opening of the first movement is exploited again and again with changes of direction and different suspensions and registers. Fantastic!
Beautifully played, and as always with Haydn, full of surprise!
@Friar Wonderful comment Friar! Haydn is full of surprises! The master of imense masters was a delighful personality!
Perfetto per cominciare il giorno... ma anche per seguire e per finire... grazie!!
Perfetto per ogni tempo
So refreshing is the sound of Haydn 81 here, and besides the listening experience the comment section is filled with much informative information and not so much bickering back and forth about no related topics..I learn more from the comments following Haydn 2032 project than I have in all my 53 years of existence..The more i learn about historical figures like Haydn the better overall the listening experience as I can put it in context in relation to the time of release and first performances.
That’s been my experience too!
Excellent performance
Can hardly wait for their traversal of Haydn's Paris Symphonies.
... and the London symphonies!
@@clavichord
Three things I will be looking for when we reach these later symphonies, 82 to 104.
i) Whether or not the orchestra/s are supplemented to between 40 and 60 players* to correspond with the size of the actual orchestras in Paris in the 1780’s and London in the 1790’s.
ii) Haydn specifically requested his Viennese publisher Artaria - in vain - to print the Paris symphonies in the following order:
87, 85, 83, 84, 86, 82.
I hope Antonini and Haydn 2032 follow this almost certainly chronological, and definitely Haydn’s intended sequence,** rather than the arbitrary and non-sensical, but familiar Artaria/Mandyczewski order adopted by Hoboken.
iii) Similarly, the first set of London symphonies would be better presented in the probable chronological order:
96, 95, 93, 94, 98, (Sinfonia Concertante), 97.
(The second series for London - Symphonies 99 to 104 - are I think chronologically correct in Hoboken, though 101 was premiered 3 March 1794, whilst 100 was four weeks later on 31 March).
* The increased numbers would not simply relate to string players, but would raise questions about the doubling - or not - of the wind and brass parts to maintain the balance between the orchestra’s different sections.
** Though the thematic nature of the cds issued so far may mitigate against this.
You may find my reply (above) of some interest.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Thanks, Elaine. Yes, even just by listening to Haydn's style, I notice some very large chronological errors in the Hoboken symphony numbering... notably Haydn's symphony no 72, which seems to have been composed about 15 years before nos 73 and 71.
@@clavichord
You are quite correct, Symphony 72 is one of the most wildly misplaced of the symphonies.
Composed probably in 1763, with its four extravagant obbligato horn parts, Symphony 72 is clearly a practice run for the very similarly structured, but more developed Symphony 31 (‘Hornsignal’) written two years later in 1765.
Symphony 37 (1757/58) is another particularly badly mis-numbered work, it is probably the second one composed after Symphony 1 (1757).
Some further significant examples where the Mandyczewski/Hoboken order departs considerably from the presumed chronological sequence of the symphonies are as follows:
Symphonies 32, 33, 36, 37, 40, 72, 58, 59, 65, 64, are all numbered too high;
Symphonies 6, 7, 8, 26, 53, 62, 63, are all numbered too low.
Interprete visionario e moderno (BRAVISSIMO Maestro Antonini) strepitose anche le sue letture di Vivaldi (unico ) GRAZIE
BRAVO BRAVO EXCELLENTLY PLAYED
I'm astonished by J. Haydn again. This performance is absolutely perfect. Thank you and Bravo!
Why didn’t you wait until the church bells stopped? Haha...
I love Haydn 2032!!!
Knowing Haydn, he might have planned it that way - with the church bells sounding.
Same. This project really is great.
Just discovered this channel-thank you. 😍
Fantastic. Great conducting dinamics
Excelente interpretación ,muy buena dirección y orquesta,
Beautifully done! Bravo!
Excelente.Felicitaciones
No one did it better than Papa Josef.
In almost every original, authentic score I’ve ever seen, the composer signs his name giuseppe Haydn (sic); whilst the Italian form is the most common, there are also examples of the German form Joseph, and occasionally the Latin Josephus.
Not really sure why of all the great composers, Haydn is the only one stuck with this silly ‘Papa’ nickname which keeps cropping up across TH-cam - I really don’t think Haydn would approve.
Wonderful symphony! wonderfully performed! So many of Haydn's great symphonic creations sadly are undervalued (if only more had names!) I've always called this one the "Mozart Symphony" since it surely shows one of the earliest influences of the young composer on the older: the slinky chromaticism at 1:30 of the first movement is surely a sign of "cross-fertilization".
Nagyon szep koncert.
Mon Dieu, quel galant d'andante! Je plane!!!!
F.J.H.-Prolífico y genial
Great friend of J.C.W.T.M.
It’s JH and WAM; in the case of both composers, we should drop all the baptismal names.
Excellent. Not in E major but G major.
Beautiful location! A church? The name, please.
Watched this so many times, fascinated. If you transported the brass and woodwind to musicians in ancient Rome they would recognise what they were for, strings might take them a bit longer. Still, you work with what you have but how many could do this?
Speechless! Sorry mozart, sorry Beethoven! You undestand who is the Master!!!
Good comment. I’m beginning to feel that way myself!
Great comment! I can't praise Haydn enough!
Beethoven knew... He regarded Papa Hsydn as a pupil would a teacher... Haydn was present during the premiere of "Eroica".
@@srikrishnaaiyar5684
Beethoven’s views about Haydn were ambivalent to say the least, though it’s true he learned much from him in every respect - except the infamous counterpoint lessons.
It’s unlikely Beethoven ever called Haydn ‘Papa’, a name that ever since its origins has acquired a ridiculous modern day usage out of all proportion to its lack of importance and almost total irrelevance.
Additionally, the pejorative sense it now has does Haydn no favours at all; the term was already being used as a term of ridicule - contempt even - by Beethoven’s circle as early as the 1790’s.
The term should be consigned to the historical trash where it belongs.
The great ‘Eroica’ movie (in the sense that ‘Amadeus’ is great) places Haydn at the rehearsals of the eponymous symphony; it almost certainly never happened.
Neither ‘Eroica’ nor ‘Amadeus’ can be used as factual sources to back up an argument.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 I recently heard a music historian say (whether this story is true or not) that at Haydn’s final birthday celebration (because he would pass away shortly thereafter), Beethoven himself attended. During the occasion when people were offering their congratulations to him on reaching 81 years old by shaking his hand; Beethoven, instead of shaking his hand, knelt in reverential homage to the great composer.
Great bassoon parts. Also, you description says this symphony is in E major...
Sshooter444
Good point.
The addition of the second obbligato bassoon - along with the ‘col basso’ one - opens up lots of opportunities that Haydn exploits, and which expand the density of the musical texture and sound considerably.
Well spotted; this symphony is in G major.
16:20, the Fourth Movement.
Perfect. Better performance than Hogwood
Certainly more aggressive ;)
Doesn't take much to be better than Hogwood. Solomons, Harnoncourt, Fischer, Halstead and Dorati all managed it.
@@jasonhurd4379 Dorati 👍
@@clavichord I agree. Not only is the Doráti symphony cycle superb, the eight Haydn operas he recorded for Philips are a revelation, absolutely delightful.
@@jasonhurd4379 I'm not yet aquinted with Haydn's operas... but I'm sure my curiousity will get the better of me.
Where was this performed?
19:30, the Fifth Movement.
Why are the .musicians standing?
Antonini ma come dirigi
9:24 II. Andante
6. B(2
4:30 16:40
A Lleida no!!!!
Afirmar que êste conjunto é maravilhoso, é pouco, mas discordo da utilização da Viola da Gamba (Cello sem o espigão), embora reconheça que, na gamba, a sonoridade é mais aveludada mas, convenhamos, o sistema "na Gamba" é desconfortável, e a diferença sonora não chega a compensar esse desconforto. Voltando ao conjunto maravilhoso, não se pode deixar de reconhecer a contribuição absoluta da maestria do regente Giovanni Antonini. Grato pela postagem.
ummm... could have waited for the bells?
I listen to the Hogwood performance (from the Salzburg Mozarteum) many times and I don't agree, that the Antonini version is the better one. In my opinion Hogwood has a lot more of sence for balanced tempi. Haydn wrote over the Menuetto not Presto, rather Allegretto. And I prefer the Hogwood performance for its naturalness without added effects.
Not at all. And Klemperer conducts No. 104 First Movement's Allegro almost like an Andante, yet it is still magnificent! What I am saying is you must put aside the obsession to search for the historically right or "true" tempo, there is no such thing! What matters in music making is what you put inside that tempo! If you feel there is comfortable time for everything to be articulated, conveyed, that's your tempo. Just do not force anything either on Haydn or yourself. These tempi here work fabulously, because the orchestra delivers them in an intelligent, articulate manner, and everyone, with the leadership of the conductor, breathes them as they perform. Tempi may vary greatly, yet they all maybe right if the essence in the proportions is right.There is no movement in tempo, like there is no movement on an escalator when you stand steady on it, it just takes you. This is not meant to say there is no flexibility in tempo - but that flexibility ought to stay in reference with the steady firm tempo in the background. And that's what makes this performance so great, indeed.
@@csaponxypan1
I am not normally a fan of these old-style Haydn recordings from the 1960’s - in this case perhaps into the very early 1970’s - but Klemperer’s late Haydn is an exception; indeed, this is very fine music-making, and I would label it essential listening.
(I am rather less convinced by some of the other well-regarded recordings of this period).
I have a set which includes Klemperer conducting Symphonies 88, 92, 95, 98, 100, 101, 102,and 104 with the New/Philharmonia Orchestra.*
It is large-scale, steady, less jaunty than conductors like Beecham, but has a solid Germanic character, and is beautifully shaped in Klemperer’s more leisurely tempi - it never drags. He gives us wonderful insights into big-band Haydn - it is a very fine set that I still enjoy very much on its own very particular merits.
It is an old recording, that does not sound old-fashioned.
I agree with much in your thoughtful comment, and would only add that I think that there is room in Haydn - and Mozart and Beethoven too - for both large and small scale, authentic and modern, and any combination of these as well.
* Re-packaged by EMI a little over ten years ago, and still available I think.
It is what we now want to hear, heavily influenced by rock&roll clichés. That annoying stress on every first beat...
Please read the nonsense about this symphony in Wikipedia. Especially what is written for the Andante. Ridiculous, since musical amateurs work there.
Haydn, Haydn, Haydn y todo lo demás es tontería.
Joseph II dismissed Haydn’s music as ‘…tricks and nonsense’.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 So what, Elaine?
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Isn’t that the same guy who told Mozart, “too many notes”, or something to that effect?
@@peterheiman8621
It is; incidentally, Frederick the Great labelled Haydn’s music ‘…a din to flay the ears’.
@@pepehaydn7039
I took ‘tonteria’ to mean nonsense (Google translate - I really do not understand Spanish); apologies if that was not your meaning.