I think that the problem was that it was directly compared to the Ferrari 458, which was probably the best baby Ferrari in the past three decades. The Mclaren on paper beats down the 458, but in the real world the Ferrari had a lot more elegance, much more characterful engine and just a more playful feel. I think the Mclaren for a first shot was excellent but build quality issues also plagued the early models which contributed to the lack of enthusiasm for it. Today they're an incredible bargain. Think I would still rather have the 458 though if budget allowed. If not you can get a later Mclaren 570S for not much more money and they're like the 12C with greater polish.
Ah, I must admit, I've always found it hard to love the 458 because I was so fond of the F430. It was THE Ferrari of my childhood, and was better than the 599.
I think build quality did in the 12C more than anything else, as by that time Ferrari had got its build quality act together. Of course, Ferrari was also an established aspirational brand, and even though the 458 didn't sound as good as the 430, it still sounded better than any other V8. I also think we overplay the influence of car journalists. It's clear most people make up their own minds. A reputation for poor build quality and reliability issues were bad enough, but most goodwill was extinguished because of generally poor customer service and dealer arrogance combined with the bad attitude McLaren itself has towards McLaren customers. Enzo's bad attitude had a cover, he made great engines and said the car was thrown in for free, whereas McLaren's engine while good is arguably the least spectacular part of the drivetrain, and simply customer expectations had increased along with the prices.
@@nigel.w There is no doubt that that naturally aspirated V8 in the Ferrari meant the smiles per mile was always going to be higher than the less sonoral turbo V8 in this Mclaren. Mclaren had it built because they eyed the regulations of Asian nations over engine sizes, such as China. Of course ten years later everything was turbocharged anyway so the Mclaren being a little before its time did it no favours. Today nobody would bat an eyelid. I still think that the 570S is the better buy than the 12C. It has less technically advanced suspension and a few other things but Mclaren refined the engine and everything else. It is a bit cheaper to run and a bit better built. They are about £80k now.
Where to start...... (great review BTW) As you know I bought mine in 2016, it was 5 years old at the time and one of the very first cars, chassis No.80 so built in the technology Centre not the production centre with the lovely swipe doors. In total I owned my 12C for 2.5 years and 14,000 miles. It wasn't without its issues but what I will say was I owned it during that transitional time when the issues started rearing their head for the first time. This period is now over and I would say that nearly all cars are fully sorted. None of my issues were mechanical, the car ran like a dream, they were mostly corrosion and I had an odd creak that was eventually traced just to a wheel hub. In my 2.5 years and 14k miles the depreciation was £10k. I also spent £6k on warranties but that was it. Normal running costs aside (petrol / tax / insurance/ servicing) it cost me £16k over 14k miles. £1.14p per mile. I am fairly sure that is a relative bargain for a supercar. I sold mine in 2018 and the chap who bought it still owns it, he has had zero issues. The services averaged around £1k each. To put the £1.14p into perspective my F355 (that you drove) was £2.13p per mile. and my 981 Boxster Spyder £1.56. Having spent quite a lot of time driving 458's I can say they are lovely cars but feel slower than the 12C. They are surprisingly comfortable too with the bumpy ride setting. To my eyes the 12C is a much better looking car now. The 458 is also not without issues BUT (and here is the main difference) Ferrari owners do not air their dirty laundry in public, you simply don't hear about their woes and despairs. Because McLaren was a British brand it attracted many first time British supercar owners who came from Porsches and Audi's and were not used to the foibles of supercar ownership. You also have to bear in mind that McLaren owners actually DRIVE their cars. There are 12C's with 30/40/50k miles on the clock. Try doing that with a 458 and then seeing if you can sell it, at ANY price. The 12C has also held up in terms of quality, the leather, stitching and general quality of materials has stood the test of time better than Ferrari, with their melting / sticky interiors, and also Lamborghini. The inside of an early Huracan usually shows much more wear than a 12C even though 12C's tend to have done 3 times more miles. I don't know anyone who has had a gearbox failure either. That must be one of the most over-hyped issues and pales into insignificance (financial and numerical) against 981 GT4 strut and gearbox failures but no one still bangs on about those. You mentioned MPG, the long term mpg of mine was around 26mpg. On a run to the Alps (we did 3 times) it would average over 30mpg and also on 95 RON. When doing 3k+ miles on a tour this makes a BIG difference to the cost compared to a Ferrari (My F355 was 15mpg on 98RON & it leaked). The 12C is also supremely comfortable and refined. Even at 160mph on the Autobahn it is composed and quiet. It also holds a lot of luggage. We did consider a 570GT and when we arrived to swop for a weekend we could not fit the luggage from our 12C into the 570GT. The 12C is also the smallest McLaren in exterior size, smaller than even the 570 and feels more like a Lotus than a bigger Ferrari. The engine sound is not as tuneful as a 458 but is that worth a £60k premium? Actually the 12C now sounds very good compared to new turboed cars and has come good. Frank Stephenson got the styling right, it looks spot on, its still fast, the issues are now all resolved, its comfortable, its a supreme touring car and its made by a British F1 constructor in Surrey from mostly UK sourced and engineered parts. I have met a lot of the development and engineering team they are still hyper enthusiastic about the car, even after all this time. They are amazing cars and incredible bargains, if you are able to then I would not hesitate to recommend one to any petrolhead. I only sold mine to buy a 675LT which I have now owned for 3.5 years and 10k miles. During which time it has not had one single issue. I would not have bought the 675LT if I had any concerns over long term McLaren ownership, reliability or running costs.
Nice to have an honest detailed opinion from a genuine supercar owner. The above is quiet possible the most detailed analysis I think Ive read online,,,thank you
I have to agree to all of the above especially the bit about the type of customers. Ferraris with high miles are very very rare and unsellable. Worked at the Dutch importer of Bugatti and Lamborghini, and if a customer wanted to trade in a high mile Ferrari, they usually were very unhappy about the trade in offer. The car then usually is sold privately.
I picked up a beautiful volcano orange one last week and I LOVE it! In the sun, it is pure WOW! Massive spec, dripping with carbon, ceramic brakes, updated Iris, soft close doors, piles of history by the 3 previous owners. A total joy just to be used on the occasional summer days and for some video / photography shoots. Great review.
My friend in Florida bought a MP4-12C brand new in 2013! It was nice to look at but transmission failures and electrical problems were keeping his car at the McLaren dealer. Covered under warranty but he sold the car before the warranty expired at a 40% loss😟
This has much to do with the history of the company (Ferrari is almost unbeatable here) …apart from that the 458 is one of the most sought after V8-Ferrari (without turbo charged engine). In addition to that: some people don’t fully trust McLaren as a company…no one knows when they’re gonna be sold to another investor (similar to Lotus or TVR or Mg or or or) or simply „disappear“ one day like ‚McLaren Audio’ did about two decades ago. This altogether makes the used car prices… The McLaren C12 is certainly a great sports car but hasn’t the aura of a Ferrari…soft factors do have a huge impact in this category.
@@bikemike1118 its really just the manufacturing that has been poor since the start at their woking mass production facilities All their limited cars the Speedtail the Sabre the P1 and the SLR have been excellent
The origins of the engine are actually Nissan. It started life in the joint Nissan-TWR project called R390. A car I've had the pleasure in sitting in and having a good rummage around at Nissan's heritage centre in Zama, Japan.
I have had my 12c for over 7 years. Yes, when I first got it it was unreliable (the heating displays failed on mine, amongst other things) but for the past 5 years it has been rock solid. Find one that has been looked after and driven regularly and you will not go far wrong.
I totally agree I think the design looks even better and classier in this ‘over designed’ car world we live in now. My only worry with McLaren is their ‘reputation’ for customer service and reliability… but then it’s a super car so it’s gonna need a lot mechanical attention in order drive at its best.
They let the customers do the fault finding. Even then the CEO allegedly wouldn’t buy one snd stuck to his AMG. A couple of friends worked there and some of the assembly “procedure c**k ups” where beyond belief.
As Jeremy Clarkson said "The Ferrari is a pair of stockings. The McLaren is a pair of tights. Scientifically and mathematically and practically, the McLaren is better. And yet somehow, it isn't"
I've always thought that the 12C was one of the most unique and well thought through designs of its era, it was completely alien and sophisticated, with a design that stood out from Lamborghini and Ferrari who had basically the same car ideology set in stone for decades.
Thank you for continuing to shine a light at this all but forgotten masterpiece of a car. I drove mine 6,500 miles last year and loved every single one of them. It is almost criminal how low these have fallen in value, because they still compete with many new super, and sports car that cost way more than a nicely used MP4-12C. If I had the garage and budget, I would buy 10 of these and store them, while the market corrects for the 12C, and they sky-rocket in value. The 12C is too special of a car, designed by some of the greatest minds like Ron Dennis, Frank Stephenson, and many great engineers from Lotus and McLaren F1 to be a cult classic in the near future.
I’ve always thought this was one of the best looking cars McLaren have made. Thanks for making this video, very educational; I never knew about the unique suspension system.
Really enjoyed this review. I’m a Ferrari man, but this has captured my imagination, a car for individualists, low profile entrepreneurs- it’s damn cool
I had the pleasure and privilege to be involved with the 12C from concept, through prototype in to production, having been responsible for the Electrical Distribution System. We didn't want to be compared to the Ferrara, even though that was inevitable. Personally I loved the diesel like torque from that twin turbo V8 that was very dosile when required that made motorway cruising effortless, something I can't say for the shouty headache Ferrari.
Thank you for building one of the greatest cars I've ever owned. I've owned over 50 cars (no flex here, just old) from V10s with nearly 1000HP to 3-cyl cars, and the 12C is the best one I've ever owned personally.
The problem with the 12C was it was designed to be driven, sticking it in a garage to look at was and is the worst thing you can do to them as the internal seals dry out and cause the issues.
The 12C is a natural beauty. It has an elegant and flowing front that blends into a modern technological rear. Better IMO than the 650S, which has the front of a P1 welded onto the rear of the 12C. It looks like a cut and shut.
@@srinitaaigaura I like almost all the others. The 570S and 720S looked great, with their own character, the Artura is good as well. But I don’t like the Speedtail, way too long, and the design is a derivative of the 570S. You can’t make the top-line product a derivative of the base product.
I have 570 Spider. I describe the engine sound as being “Ducati like”…. It has that clack clack thrum akin to a chainsaw …so more digital as opposed to the analog of a Ferrari V8. It is however incredibly “easy” to drive stupidly fast. 90 feels like 60. 4 years on I still love the car.
Knew 2 guys who had the 12C, they both hated them due to expensive reliability issues. One guy had his engine replaced under warranty, but when the replacement went south as well, the dealership bought the car back from him. It had spent months in the shop! No thanks!
@@TheChill001 True but that's an Italian car, so people expect that, lol. Presumably the Lexus LFA was more reliable and that was the level of reliability and build quality that McLaren should have been targeting to give McLaren a reputation for impeccable reliability and quality control, not merely "about the same as the European competition"? Noting that people are always going to scrutinise the build quality of a British car (refer Lotus), so why not spend lots of time and money to make sure it is spot on at Lexus levels? (Or were McLaren rushing the product to market before it was truly ready to recoup capital costs, instead of taking the time and money to make sure it was 100% right despite making a loss on every sportscar sold like the Lexus LF-A? Same for Honda's flagship bike the Rune where every bike was sold at a loss, and they seem to have a very good reputation for reliability and build quality.) If you invest lots of time and money, and spend considerably more building each car or bike than what you sell them for, it doesn't seem all that difficult to make a product with impeccable quality. 😉😊
I tried to follow one of these in my race preped car up a mountain road. I was working hard. Sure it has twice the HP I had, but it was on road tyres and the driver had never raced and was a truly average driver. I want one of these, I am just short $50 - $60k. Another great video Jack. I had forgotten to come back and look at this video and just remembered this morning. Glad I came back. Thanks.
Nice video Jack. I actually find these earlier Mclarens better looking than the later ones, more in line with the F1 (road car) smooth lines, than the ugly (imo) not so aesthetically pleasing later Mclarens.
I go on drives most weekends, and I'm always able to find a new, amazing road. Something about seeing you and Harry beat these same corners to death has me feeling a little sad, are there no other good corners out your way? I live in Oregon in US, and the roads here never seem to get any attention from journalists, but are absolutely outrageously good! Thanks for another great vid!
Nicely done Jack 😎 I think a better title would have been "It Was A Trailblazer, So Why Is McLaren's 12C So Misunderstood?" At it's launch the motoring press were in fact universally blown away by the 12C's sheer ability and staggered by it's performance. They also noted McLaren positioning it as deliberately different to the Supercar norm! It was only on subsequent group tests the press forgot this and observed it as less engaging and emotional than the Ferrari 458 🙄 Then as you say rather lost their bottle and reverted to the Supercar norm making their products shoutier, slidier, pointier etc 😢 As the genesis of McLaren Automotive the 12C will be always be special as the first series production McLaren and with production numbers less than 1/3rd of the 458 it's relative scarcity will ensure its collectible status and values will rise to where they really should be 😎
A mate of mine had a 12c Spider in Volcano Red and it put him off McLaren for good. Had various paint problems. Never fixed properly by the dealer. Not to mention the reliability was shocking. It was in the dealers more than he had it. In the end they bought it back from him..
I remember the contemporary reviews of this vs the 458. On Fifth Gear both Needell and Plato loved the 458 and hated the 12C. And Clarkson's drive of the 458 on Top Gear is one of their best ever moments imo - gives me goosepimples even when I watch it again now all these years later. I will never be in a position to own either but if I were it would be 458 without a seconds hesitation.
I watched the Fifth Gear review recently and, yes, they both hated it. But they hated it because it wasn't as easy to slide around a race track with a professional racing driver behind the wheel as the 458. Seeing as I am not a racing driver, and definitely wouldn't be sliding my 600bhp supercar anywhere, I found the review largely useless. Clarkson, however, was bang on. I've been fortunate enough to drive both a 12C and a few modern-ish Ferraris, and it's definitely missing the "zing" as he put it. Wonderful car, and an absolute bargain right now if you want something you can use regularly, but doesn't make the hairs on the back of you neck stand up in the same way a a Ferrari.
A British made car with electrical issues, never! A true piece of automotive art Jack, the noise the exhaust makes, who cares, for me the quieter the better so long as it still gets up and goes.
also nothing on this car drive train is actually fully McLaren. engine is tweaked nissan engine. Gearbox is Ricardo if im not mistaken. Suspension was collaboration of McLaren and some university. Im sorry but McLaren did not have means to make well working car out of the box just like that. And now that company was sold to some African country maybe its going to work.
@gazzafloss IF it gets up and goes, that is. I remember well beeing able to compete with a few of these with my 997.1 C2S, on a race track, but even in a straight line (German Autobahn), because they notoriouosly lack power. In my experience, most of them might have 400 HP tops.
Thanks Jack, it just didn't quite have the wow factor at launch, but as you say, has aged well. You probably got bored anyway not having to look for smoke out the back, & wondering how many cylinders it was running?! 🙏🙏
A really good friend of mine has one of these, he has sports cats and some sort of trick ecu and well he calls the engine it's warp drive my god it's not far off time travel at times 🤣. It's absolutely insane how fast it is and I love the way it looks too! Cracking stuff as always Jack 👍
Every experience I ever had with Ferrari was nothing but a headache in a pocketbook drainer. Finally went to Lamborghini no problems. Bought a McLaren no problems. Will never buy another Ferrari. PS compared to Lamborghini Ferraris are nothing special.
What a beautiful example and that is the colour I would choose if I were in the market for one now. I did look into buying one about five years ago but was scared off by the ridiculous parts prices from McLaren and the almost complete lack of third party support outside of the factory.
For me, the 12C's understated looks are appealing. I love the older smoother Ferraris. And it is difficult for me to tell the difference between some newer Ferraris. And most of us are not better than average drivers. Clean good looks. Compliant suspension. And amazing speed at a savings. What's not to like. You cover it all Jack. Old. New. Nice!
Really beautiful car ❤ I appreciate your opinion on the car because watching you drive it while your explaining how it feels enhances the video experience. Great review Jack. Electronics of that era were just beginning to enter the automotive industry for mass production so there were many issues. Looking forward to the next review. You need to start selling some Merchandise 😁
I always liked the front design of these early McLarens. Later models have these strange headlights with boomerang, triangle or bow shape. I prefer the sharper and maybe more conventional lines of the MP4-12C.
I don't think you can ping the 12C on its styling...it looks good. The 458 looks better but it's rare the competitor looks better when up against a Ferrari. Throttle response on the 458 NA engine is much better than the 12C engine( so I'm told) All in all it's a fine car but the reliability and parts/servicing costs are scary and everyone hates McLaren's used car dealer network. Thanks for posting Master Jack!
I think the short answer is that it was a bit ugly. Broke down more often than Britney Spears. and was up against one of Ferraris prettiest cars in the 458.
Hi Jack, thanks for the video, now watching, I think you're missing some digits on the lb weights and also the weights appear wrong way around. Hope this helps.
Hi Jack, thanks again for this lovely video and a lovely car. Your perspective has brought me around to the 12C quite a bit more. I agree with your observation that the 12C did age well. I don't think any of its successors will. I also still am part of the group that feels the 12C is a tad too 'clinical' or 'efficient' and not enough of a 'drama queen' like its competitor. This video did make me appreciate it more than I did in the past. The styling is actually really timeless; dare I say: beautiful?
For the same money, most would choose the 458, and did so when new, but I guess Jack is asking why that is still the case now the 12C is half the price, and since the turbo V8 became widely adopted, including by Ferrari.
Auto journalists need their girls for one night stands. What real owners need is a hot wife. Of course in the longevity part many Mclarens were notoriously unreliable.
The design aged so well. As will nearly all of Frank‘s cars, F430 still looks awesome, Maserati MC12 (alone from the looks) is the uber hypercar these days.
These first ones looked the best - nice job Frank. The latter cars headlights are simply over designed 😢and have in reality dated the car . Great review as always - cheers from Brisbane
I didn't look the look of this car on video but when i saw one in the flesh i realised how gorgeous it was and the view down the road from the cockpit is perfect
I was lucky enough to drive one of these and a Ferrari 458 Speciale back to back one day. The MP4 12C felt like a fast car, it was good to drive, quick, but not remarkably so. The Ferrari felt like I was wired into it telepathically. The quick steering seemed to respond to my thought, rather than the action of steering and it was so balanced that within a few minutes I felt comfortable to have the tail out and be able to catch it. I suspect familiarity would have helped with the McLaren, but, at that point, the Ferrari felt on a different level - I've never driven a better car than that Ferrari.
Here in France, used 12 C's for sale are between 127000 and 160000 euros actually, but used 458's starts from 210000 up to 360000 euros ! Even 839000 euros for a 458 speciale spider with low mileage !
Build quality and poor customer service probably condemned McLaren more. Customer service goes a long long way, and McLaren and its dealers have a long long way to go. Fortunately, there are now independent specialists for cars out of warranty.
It was more the dealer networks ability to support it. As an all new and complex car from a new manufacturer it was always going to be a difficult task but the dealers did a poor job AND McLaren didn't have the capacity and procedures to cope. The gearbox issue Jack references was a minor repairable fault but due to McLaren;s contract with Graziano required that ANY and ALL gearbox issues required the gearbox was replaced and the old one returned to Graziano for inception.
A gorgeous yellow and black 12c paid us a visit on a guest day at our gun club. We all took turns to sit in it and enjoy the feel of a real supercar. Sad to say it left on the back of a recovery vehicle after failing to engage any gear. We never got to see it again - the owner told us later that he'd replaced it with an Audi R10.
As usual, a super informative and entertaining video. My context is my company designed and manufactured the original IRIS infotainment system, quite correctly described as “dated” by Jack but it was 12 years ago…..McLaren were incredibly supportive and provided us with test MP4-12C’s whenever we wanted one. In fact they shipped a development car from Woking, UK to our Seattle, US software development facility for our 100% use. Anyway, I do recall that at the time I just couldn’t understand why anyone would pay £210k for a MP4-12C (In 2013) as it’s performance was legally unusable. My view has now changed and have enjoyed various Ferraris but not a McLaren. Maybe I should review that after Jack’s video? But then again my 308GTB is probably the best ratio of character:price:performance I have. Anyway, a bit of a ramble but when my favourite 308 commentator discusses MP4-12 I had to add my bit.
Hello Jack I know that sweeping S bend that you took at speed and it has special memories for me. Some years back I owned a Honda C50 cub motorcycle. I drilled some holes in the exhaust and it sounded and went like a dragster. I had the bike flat out in that S bend, the bike was so banked over that the bottom of the guard that keeps the wind of the legs was scratching the road. Thanks for posting and all the best Andy
Michael Kenis It was great fun. Prior to buying the cub for work I had a Kawasaki zzr 600 and wore full race leathers. I use to wear the full race leathers while riding the cub. So you can probably imagine how cool I looked All the best Andy.
Great review Jack; thank you again. Not sure if it's too late, but I think you have the values the wrong way around in your early graphic (about 40 seconds in) showing the 458 at £75k and the 12C at £135k. I understood what you said and that was clear by the way!
When tested by Fifth Gear, Plato spun it, he can’t remember when he last spun a car and the car sent Tiff careering off of the circuit. They didn’t like it.
That's because it has an open diff, as compared to Ferrari's E diff (Limited Slip). Open diffs cannot be used to drift. The brake steer was also not meant for it. The P1 cn drift with brake steer but it kills the brake pads. Later Mcs had variable drift control software to help control sideslip angle. Only now in the Artura did Mclaren finally turn to e diffs.
The Mclaren's biggest problem was the lack of a limited slip e diff - they used an open diff which every car reviewer used to show off why the car wasn't fun to drift and trash in corners. The suspension was superb though, I hear the Speedtail is even better. Mclaren's service was what ruined it. Ferrari offers AMCs on old cars which is basically a giant extended warranty and it's a total bargain - the LaFerrari service pack is only 45 k a year and they'll keep it new and in tip top shape - for the price of the car that's a bargain. In comparison, there was one guy who bought a fully serviced P1 after shelling out 300 k for fixing everything and all of it broke down in one year. That was a good horror story.
Very good review and I think in the years ahead, the 12C will be looked on much more favourably, compared to when it was launched. Also on a slight sidenote Jack...Do you and Harry have a schedule worked out for when each of you can test cars on that road....😉😄
You mixed up your prices in the first graphic… regardless I’m now sizing one of these up instead of an F355/F360. Thanks to Jason for letting it get a bit muddy.
I love my 12C and kept it despite it now sharing garage space with 765LT and 458 Speciale. UK car media misunderstood it at launch, which dented its reputation. Sharp handling, crazy power, good comfort (but not nearly as comfortable as claimed here).
You talked about the interesting engine soul. When i heard that was thinking what will people in the future say about this topic, when they talk about electric engines. Because they all feel similar.
At auction they are making even less than £75k - collecting cars sold a couple recently, a 12c Spider for £69,500 and a hardtop for £59k (all plus fees) but what a bargain...
I only tend to review cars I’m interested in… which means though I may point out their flaws I don’t tend to do negative reviews. But check my Mercedes R107 review or the one on the Cayenne!
Exactly, the reviews never take in what you do and what its costs when it goes wrong and my god, they do go wrong, and McLaren prices for spares make Ferrari's look a bargain.
Thanks for your review. I am planning to rent a 12C this coming January in San Diego. I am interested in different people's opinions and reviews. I am hoping the auto insurance company says yes 😆.
These are quite the bargain nowadays. It's a relatively attainable supercar for me with performance that still holds up. I would love to have one as a weekend car in the future. Great review
Well done on this one Jack, great review as usual. Fabulous car, love the looks and that it is to all intents and purposes looked upon as a British car. As you mention, the reliability was an issue, still is, parts are very expensive and seem to be needed more than some other cars. Great sound and seemingly a great road holder, prices seem to be OK but parts and electrics as with so many other cars now, especially with electrics being so complex and therefor high cost repairs.
Ive got a 12C spider and a 720 Spider; I have done 50k miles in the 12C and 32k in the 720. The 12C remains a hugely capable supercar and you can just jump in it and drive very hard and it will look after you. Its fast enough for most people and is ageing very well. My Swiss pal did around 130k miles in his 12c. Yes, its not been without its problems but those have tapered off and its now mostly trouble free. It remains the very best supercar you can buy (for your first one) and is certainly undervalued.
For a car that wasn't designed in Italy, i hve to say it looks pretty good. I reckon Gordon Murray is part Italian (his car collection is more than half Italian.....)
That was a splendid car... and as you say, probably an overall better car than the Ferrari. I fear that 'back then' Mc Laren seemed too much of a gamble in terms of build quality and after sale customer care. ?
after I purchased my Evora back in 2012 I was very keen on getting a 12c. A used one popped up at the dealer in 2015 for about $130K USD. I took the drive and did like the car. Checked the maintenance records and stopped dead in my tracks. A car with less than 5k miles had had $60 in service. Doing my own maintenance was not a real option. Dealer suggested I purchased an extended warranty for $6k and year and that did not include regular service. My Lotus is dead simple to work on and has a Toyota drive train. If the Mclaren was light years above the Lotus I might be able to justify the cost, but that sadly is not the case. Short story is I kept the Lotus. I get the quirky British build quality, design and performance for a fraction of the price. McLaren is also not a fan of tracking your car. To many people have voided warrantees do to too much track time.
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It is a well rounded car,usable, fast ,understated it age well
Got your prices for 458 vs 12C reversed
I think that the problem was that it was directly compared to the Ferrari 458, which was probably the best baby Ferrari in the past three decades. The Mclaren on paper beats down the 458, but in the real world the Ferrari had a lot more elegance, much more characterful engine and just a more playful feel. I think the Mclaren for a first shot was excellent but build quality issues also plagued the early models which contributed to the lack of enthusiasm for it. Today they're an incredible bargain. Think I would still rather have the 458 though if budget allowed. If not you can get a later Mclaren 570S for not much more money and they're like the 12C with greater polish.
Some good points!
Ah, I must admit, I've always found it hard to love the 458 because I was so fond of the F430. It was THE Ferrari of my childhood, and was better than the 599.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos For me it has always been the F40.
But call me nostalgic :)
I think build quality did in the 12C more than anything else, as by that time Ferrari had got its build quality act together. Of course, Ferrari was also an established aspirational brand, and even though the 458 didn't sound as good as the 430, it still sounded better than any other V8. I also think we overplay the influence of car journalists. It's clear most people make up their own minds. A reputation for poor build quality and reliability issues were bad enough, but most goodwill was extinguished because of generally poor customer service and dealer arrogance combined with the bad attitude McLaren itself has towards McLaren customers. Enzo's bad attitude had a cover, he made great engines and said the car was thrown in for free, whereas McLaren's engine while good is arguably the least spectacular part of the drivetrain, and simply customer expectations had increased along with the prices.
@@nigel.w There is no doubt that that naturally aspirated V8 in the Ferrari meant the smiles per mile was always going to be higher than the less sonoral turbo V8 in this Mclaren. Mclaren had it built because they eyed the regulations of Asian nations over engine sizes, such as China. Of course ten years later everything was turbocharged anyway so the Mclaren being a little before its time did it no favours. Today nobody would bat an eyelid. I still think that the 570S is the better buy than the 12C. It has less technically advanced suspension and a few other things but Mclaren refined the engine and everything else. It is a bit cheaper to run and a bit better built. They are about £80k now.
Where to start...... (great review BTW) As you know I bought mine in 2016, it was 5 years old at the time and one of the very first cars, chassis No.80 so built in the technology Centre not the production centre with the lovely swipe doors. In total I owned my 12C for 2.5 years and 14,000 miles. It wasn't without its issues but what I will say was I owned it during that transitional time when the issues started rearing their head for the first time. This period is now over and I would say that nearly all cars are fully sorted. None of my issues were mechanical, the car ran like a dream, they were mostly corrosion and I had an odd creak that was eventually traced just to a wheel hub. In my 2.5 years and 14k miles the depreciation was £10k. I also spent £6k on warranties but that was it. Normal running costs aside (petrol / tax / insurance/ servicing) it cost me £16k over 14k miles. £1.14p per mile. I am fairly sure that is a relative bargain for a supercar. I sold mine in 2018 and the chap who bought it still owns it, he has had zero issues. The services averaged around £1k each. To put the £1.14p into perspective my F355 (that you drove) was £2.13p per mile. and my 981 Boxster Spyder £1.56.
Having spent quite a lot of time driving 458's I can say they are lovely cars but feel slower than the 12C. They are surprisingly comfortable too with the bumpy ride setting. To my eyes the 12C is a much better looking car now. The 458 is also not without issues BUT (and here is the main difference) Ferrari owners do not air their dirty laundry in public, you simply don't hear about their woes and despairs. Because McLaren was a British brand it attracted many first time British supercar owners who came from Porsches and Audi's and were not used to the foibles of supercar ownership. You also have to bear in mind that McLaren owners actually DRIVE their cars. There are 12C's with 30/40/50k miles on the clock. Try doing that with a 458 and then seeing if you can sell it, at ANY price. The 12C has also held up in terms of quality, the leather, stitching and general quality of materials has stood the test of time better than Ferrari, with their melting / sticky interiors, and also Lamborghini. The inside of an early Huracan usually shows much more wear than a 12C even though 12C's tend to have done 3 times more miles. I don't know anyone who has had a gearbox failure either. That must be one of the most over-hyped issues and pales into insignificance (financial and numerical) against 981 GT4 strut and gearbox failures but no one still bangs on about those.
You mentioned MPG, the long term mpg of mine was around 26mpg. On a run to the Alps (we did 3 times) it would average over 30mpg and also on 95 RON. When doing 3k+ miles on a tour this makes a BIG difference to the cost compared to a Ferrari (My F355 was 15mpg on 98RON & it leaked). The 12C is also supremely comfortable and refined. Even at 160mph on the Autobahn it is composed and quiet. It also holds a lot of luggage. We did consider a 570GT and when we arrived to swop for a weekend we could not fit the luggage from our 12C into the 570GT. The 12C is also the smallest McLaren in exterior size, smaller than even the 570 and feels more like a Lotus than a bigger Ferrari.
The engine sound is not as tuneful as a 458 but is that worth a £60k premium? Actually the 12C now sounds very good compared to new turboed cars and has come good. Frank Stephenson got the styling right, it looks spot on, its still fast, the issues are now all resolved, its comfortable, its a supreme touring car and its made by a British F1 constructor in Surrey from mostly UK sourced and engineered parts. I have met a lot of the development and engineering team they are still hyper enthusiastic about the car, even after all this time.
They are amazing cars and incredible bargains, if you are able to then I would not hesitate to recommend one to any petrolhead. I only sold mine to buy a 675LT which I have now owned for 3.5 years and 10k miles. During which time it has not had one single issue. I would not have bought the 675LT if I had any concerns over long term McLaren ownership, reliability or running costs.
Thank you for taking the time to write this!
Nice to have an honest detailed opinion from a genuine supercar owner. The above is quiet possible the most detailed analysis I think Ive read online,,,thank you
I have to agree to all of the above especially the bit about the type of customers. Ferraris with high miles are very very rare and unsellable. Worked at the Dutch importer of Bugatti and Lamborghini, and if a customer wanted to trade in a high mile Ferrari, they usually were very unhappy about the trade in offer. The car then usually is sold privately.
This is one of the finest youtube comment I have ever read! Thank you Bispal!
Make this comment sticky!
I picked up a beautiful volcano orange one last week and I LOVE it! In the sun, it is pure WOW! Massive spec, dripping with carbon, ceramic brakes, updated Iris, soft close doors, piles of history by the 3 previous owners. A total joy just to be used on the occasional summer days and for some video / photography shoots. Great review.
My friend in Florida bought a MP4-12C brand new in 2013! It was nice to look at but transmission failures and electrical problems were keeping his car at the McLaren dealer. Covered under warranty but he sold the car before the warranty expired at a 40% loss😟
What did your friend do for a living?
I’ve always loved the looks of the 12c, the p1 style front ends never captured my lust. Great video Jack
Looks like prices are wrong way round?
Yes.. sorry!!
@@Number27 No probs
I know no matter how hard I check stuff & proof read, I always leave a bug. &, I always see it, immediately after I publish.
This has much to do with the history of the company (Ferrari is almost unbeatable here) …apart from that the 458 is one of the most sought after V8-Ferrari (without turbo charged engine). In addition to that: some people don’t fully trust McLaren as a company…no one knows when they’re gonna be sold to another investor (similar to Lotus or TVR or Mg or or or) or simply „disappear“ one day like ‚McLaren Audio’ did about two decades ago. This altogether makes the used car prices… The McLaren C12 is certainly a great sports car but hasn’t the aura of a Ferrari…soft factors do have a huge impact in this category.
@@bikemike1118 its really just the manufacturing that has been poor since the start at their woking mass production facilities
All their limited cars the Speedtail the Sabre the P1 and the SLR have been excellent
@@KCJbomberFTW okay, got you.
The origins of the engine are actually Nissan. It started life in the joint Nissan-TWR project called R390. A car I've had the pleasure in sitting in and having a good rummage around at Nissan's heritage centre in Zama, Japan.
R390 used VRH35Z, a 3.5-liter V8 engine from the Group C Nissan R89C.
Correct; could you imagine if it was actually an English designed engine? Then it would have a reputation for bad engines as well
Did you rummage to fruition?
@@Elberoth The R390 GT1 used the VHR35L version which was the foundation for the M838T.
@@kevinbarry71 Ilmore, & Cosworth manage it pretty well on a global level.
English production accountants however...
I have had my 12c for over 7 years. Yes, when I first got it it was unreliable (the heating displays failed on mine, amongst other things) but for the past 5 years it has been rock solid. Find one that has been looked after and driven regularly and you will not go far wrong.
Mclarern got a bit of a reputation rightly or wrongly for poor aftersales service.
You can't spell McLaren.FFS spell check before posting.The world is laughing at you.
I think rightly. But now there are independent specialists.
McLaren...
I totally agree I think the design looks even better and classier in this ‘over designed’ car world we live in now. My only worry with McLaren is their ‘reputation’ for customer service and reliability… but then it’s a super car so it’s gonna need a lot mechanical attention in order drive at its best.
They let the customers do the fault finding. Even then the CEO allegedly wouldn’t buy one snd stuck to his AMG.
A couple of friends worked there and some of the assembly “procedure c**k ups” where beyond belief.
As Jeremy Clarkson said "The Ferrari is a pair of stockings. The McLaren is a pair of tights. Scientifically and mathematically and practically, the McLaren is better. And yet somehow, it isn't"
It was the turbocharging which wasn’t a thing on every super car at the time.
But at half the price???
Well, he is saying the Ferrari is sexier. How many erotic works involves the one over the other?
Such intresting content! From old Classics to modern, great job with this channel!
Glad you enjoy it! Thanks 🙏
I've always thought that the 12C was one of the most unique and well thought through designs of its era, it was completely alien and sophisticated, with a design that stood out from Lamborghini and Ferrari who had basically the same car ideology set in stone for decades.
Thank you for continuing to shine a light at this all but forgotten masterpiece of a car. I drove mine 6,500 miles last year and loved every single one of them. It is almost criminal how low these have fallen in value, because they still compete with many new super, and sports car that cost way more than a nicely used MP4-12C. If I had the garage and budget, I would buy 10 of these and store them, while the market corrects for the 12C, and they sky-rocket in value. The 12C is too special of a car, designed by some of the greatest minds like Ron Dennis, Frank Stephenson, and many great engineers from Lotus and McLaren F1 to be a cult classic in the near future.
But, The McLaren P1 Looks Better, And Goes Faster Than The, MP4-12C😀😀😀😁😁😁😁😁😁😊☺😃😃😎😎
I’ve always thought this was one of the best looking cars McLaren have made. Thanks for making this video, very educational; I never knew about the unique suspension system.
0:31 slight error but great vid and love the old 12c 👍
Really enjoyed this review. I’m a Ferrari man, but this has captured my imagination, a car for individualists, low profile entrepreneurs- it’s damn cool
Well said.
I had the pleasure and privilege to be involved with the 12C from concept, through prototype in to production, having been responsible for the Electrical Distribution System. We didn't want to be compared to the Ferrara, even though that was inevitable. Personally I loved the diesel like torque from that twin turbo V8 that was very dosile when required that made motorway cruising effortless, something I can't say for the shouty headache Ferrari.
Thank you for building one of the greatest cars I've ever owned. I've owned over 50 cars (no flex here, just old) from V10s with nearly 1000HP to 3-cyl cars, and the 12C is the best one I've ever owned personally.
I would love one if I had the money to spare,compare it to the money these Old Ford’s are going for and it’s a strange world nowadays 😂
@DeeperImage Automotive I'm 22 and I plan on buying a 12c when I can afford a supercar. Thanks for confirming my choice 😄
madd bro just seen your work its amazing and good luck with tevva :)
@@Kurosaka Thankyou! All the best.
The problem with the 12C was it was designed to be driven, sticking it in a garage to look at was and is the worst thing you can do to them as the internal seals dry out and cause the issues.
The 12C is a natural beauty. It has an elegant and flowing front that blends into a modern technological rear. Better IMO than the 650S, which has the front of a P1 welded onto the rear of the 12C. It looks like a cut and shut.
And regrettably, Mclaren has hardly ever changed the face of all their cars since.
@@srinitaaigaura I like almost all the others. The 570S and 720S looked great, with their own character, the Artura is good as well. But I don’t like the Speedtail, way too long, and the design is a derivative of the 570S. You can’t make the top-line product a derivative of the base product.
I have 570 Spider. I describe the engine sound as being “Ducati like”…. It has that clack clack thrum akin to a chainsaw …so more digital as opposed to the analog of a Ferrari V8. It is however incredibly “easy” to drive stupidly fast. 90 feels like 60. 4 years on I still love the car.
Knew 2 guys who had the 12C, they both hated them due to expensive reliability issues. One guy had his engine replaced under warranty, but when the replacement went south as well, the dealership bought the car back from him. It had spent months in the shop! No thanks!
points out that ferrari wasn't much better if at all...
@@TheChill001 True but that's an Italian car, so people expect that, lol. Presumably the Lexus LFA was more reliable and that was the level of reliability and build quality that McLaren should have been targeting to give McLaren a reputation for impeccable reliability and quality control, not merely "about the same as the European competition"? Noting that people are always going to scrutinise the build quality of a British car (refer Lotus), so why not spend lots of time and money to make sure it is spot on at Lexus levels? (Or were McLaren rushing the product to market before it was truly ready to recoup capital costs, instead of taking the time and money to make sure it was 100% right despite making a loss on every sportscar sold like the Lexus LF-A? Same for Honda's flagship bike the Rune where every bike was sold at a loss, and they seem to have a very good reputation for reliability and build quality.)
If you invest lots of time and money, and spend considerably more building each car or bike than what you sell them for, it doesn't seem all that difficult to make a product with impeccable quality. 😉😊
I tried to follow one of these in my race preped car up a mountain road. I was working hard. Sure it has twice the HP I had, but it was on road tyres and the driver had never raced and was a truly average driver. I want one of these, I am just short $50 - $60k. Another great video Jack. I had forgotten to come back and look at this video and just remembered this morning. Glad I came back. Thanks.
Nice video Jack. I actually find these earlier Mclarens better looking than the later ones, more in line with the F1 (road car) smooth lines, than the ugly (imo) not so aesthetically pleasing later Mclarens.
I would absolutely love to have a 12c if they came with a proper manual transmission. I just can’t get behind flappy paddles.
I go on drives most weekends, and I'm always able to find a new, amazing road. Something about seeing you and Harry beat these same corners to death has me feeling a little sad, are there no other good corners out your way? I live in Oregon in US, and the roads here never seem to get any attention from journalists, but are absolutely outrageously good! Thanks for another great vid!
Yeah this a slow B road in the UK. There are some better roads but is busy south of England probably not a patch on yours.
Nicely done Jack 😎 I think a better title would have been "It Was A Trailblazer, So Why Is McLaren's 12C So Misunderstood?"
At it's launch the motoring press were in fact universally blown away by the 12C's sheer ability and staggered by it's performance. They also noted McLaren positioning it as deliberately different to the Supercar norm! It was only on subsequent group tests the press forgot this and observed it as less engaging and emotional than the Ferrari 458 🙄 Then as you say rather lost their bottle and reverted to the Supercar norm making their products shoutier, slidier, pointier etc 😢 As the genesis of McLaren Automotive the 12C will be always be special as the first series production McLaren and with production numbers less than 1/3rd of the 458 it's relative scarcity will ensure its collectible status and values will rise to where they really should be 😎
"He never normally takes it out in the rain"... cut to shot of car covered in mud🥰😅♥️
😂😂😂😂
A mate of mine had a 12c Spider in Volcano Red and it put him off McLaren for good. Had various paint problems. Never fixed properly by the dealer. Not to mention the reliability was shocking. It was in the dealers more than he had it. In the end they bought it back from him..
At least they bought it back from him.
@@nigel.w Probably sold it to someone else.
I remember the contemporary reviews of this vs the 458. On Fifth Gear both Needell and Plato loved the 458 and hated the 12C. And Clarkson's drive of the 458 on Top Gear is one of their best ever moments imo - gives me goosepimples even when I watch it again now all these years later.
I will never be in a position to own either but if I were it would be 458 without a seconds hesitation.
I watched the Fifth Gear review recently and, yes, they both hated it. But they hated it because it wasn't as easy to slide around a race track with a professional racing driver behind the wheel as the 458. Seeing as I am not a racing driver, and definitely wouldn't be sliding my 600bhp supercar anywhere, I found the review largely useless.
Clarkson, however, was bang on. I've been fortunate enough to drive both a 12C and a few modern-ish Ferraris, and it's definitely missing the "zing" as he put it. Wonderful car, and an absolute bargain right now if you want something you can use regularly, but doesn't make the hairs on the back of you neck stand up in the same way a a Ferrari.
A British made car with electrical issues, never!
A true piece of automotive art Jack, the noise the exhaust makes, who cares, for me the quieter the better so long as it still gets up and goes.
also nothing on this car drive train is actually fully McLaren. engine is tweaked nissan engine. Gearbox is Ricardo if im not mistaken. Suspension was collaboration of McLaren and some university. Im sorry but McLaren did not have means to make well working car out of the box just like that. And now that company was sold to some African country maybe its going to work.
@gazzafloss IF it gets up and goes, that is. I remember well beeing able to compete with a few of these with my 997.1 C2S, on a race track, but even in a straight line (German Autobahn), because they notoriouosly lack power. In my experience, most of them might have 400 HP tops.
Thanks Jack, it just didn't quite have the wow factor at launch, but as you say, has aged well. You probably got bored anyway not having to look for smoke out the back, & wondering how many cylinders it was running?! 🙏🙏
Thanks!
A really good friend of mine has one of these, he has sports cats and some sort of trick ecu and well he calls the engine it's warp drive my god it's not far off time travel at times 🤣.
It's absolutely insane how fast it is and I love the way it looks too! Cracking stuff as always Jack 👍
I personally prefer the more balanced lines of the MacLaren.
Greetings from the Netherlands
The owners gonna love you mate. Never goes out in the rain, you drive it through a mud bath. Lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
At the 0:37” mark…I think you got the prices mixed up? £75k for the Ferrari, £135k for the Mac?
458 vs 12c. It's like comparing Monica Bellucci to Judy Dench. Both very talented, but.......
Totally agree but catastrophic unreliability and had none of the class of the Ferrari. Looks amazing
Every experience I ever had with Ferrari was nothing but a headache in a pocketbook drainer. Finally went to Lamborghini no problems. Bought a McLaren no problems. Will never buy another Ferrari. PS compared to Lamborghini Ferraris are nothing special.
What a beautiful example and that is the colour I would choose if I were in the market for one now. I did look into buying one about five years ago but was scared off by the ridiculous parts prices from McLaren and the almost complete lack of third party support outside of the factory.
Now there are independent specialists, so that should help.
For me, the 12C's understated looks are appealing. I love the older smoother Ferraris. And it is difficult for me to tell the difference between some newer Ferraris. And most of us are not better than average drivers. Clean good looks. Compliant suspension. And amazing speed at a savings. What's not to like. You cover it all Jack. Old. New. Nice!
I hope most enthusiasts are better than average drivers.
@@nigel.w They can be two completely different types of enthusiast. I enjoy driving spiritedly, but I don't want to race or push to the limit.
Really beautiful car ❤ I appreciate your opinion on the car because watching you drive it while your explaining how it feels enhances the video experience. Great review Jack. Electronics of that era were just beginning to enter the automotive industry for mass production so there were many issues. Looking forward to the next review. You need to start selling some Merchandise 😁
I always liked the front design of these early McLarens. Later models have these strange headlights with boomerang, triangle or bow shape. I prefer the sharper and maybe more conventional lines of the MP4-12C.
The shape of the headlights is supposed to be reminiscent of the McLaren logo, which is itself a stylised kiwi.
"Sharper"? Hardly.
I don't think you can ping the 12C on its styling...it looks good.
The 458 looks better but it's rare the competitor looks better when up against a Ferrari.
Throttle response on the 458 NA engine is much better than the 12C engine( so I'm told)
All in all it's a fine car but the reliability and parts/servicing costs are scary and everyone hates McLaren's used car dealer network.
Thanks for posting Master Jack!
I think the short answer is that it was a bit ugly. Broke down more often than Britney Spears. and was up against one of Ferraris prettiest cars in the 458.
Hi Jack, thanks for the video, now watching, I think you're missing some digits on the lb weights and also the weights appear wrong way around. Hope this helps.
He basically messed it all up, the prices are also wrong way around. :D I can get a 458 for 75 grand? Sign me up!
Yes sorry!!
I think was meant to be lbft of torque. A minor typo, really.🙂
Hi Jack, thanks again for this lovely video and a lovely car. Your perspective has brought me around to the 12C quite a bit more. I agree with your observation that the 12C did age well. I don't think any of its successors will. I also still am part of the group that feels the 12C is a tad too 'clinical' or 'efficient' and not enough of a 'drama queen' like its competitor. This video did make me appreciate it more than I did in the past. The styling is actually really timeless; dare I say: beautiful?
For the same money, most would choose the 458, and did so when new, but I guess Jack is asking why that is still the case now the 12C is half the price, and since the turbo V8 became widely adopted, including by Ferrari.
Totally agree
Auto journalists need their girls for one night stands. What real owners need is a hot wife. Of course in the longevity part many Mclarens were notoriously unreliable.
Spot on, especially the comment about the design and it's "fussy" successor the 650S. Great video!
The design aged so well. As will nearly all of Frank‘s cars, F430 still looks awesome, Maserati MC12 (alone from the looks) is the uber hypercar these days.
These first ones looked the best - nice job Frank. The latter cars headlights are simply over designed 😢and have in reality dated the car . Great review as always - cheers from Brisbane
I didn't look the look of this car on video but when i saw one in the flesh i realised how gorgeous it was and the view down the road from the cockpit is perfect
I was lucky enough to drive one of these and a Ferrari 458 Speciale back to back one day. The MP4 12C felt like a fast car, it was good to drive, quick, but not remarkably so. The Ferrari felt like I was wired into it telepathically. The quick steering seemed to respond to my thought, rather than the action of steering and it was so balanced that within a few minutes I felt comfortable to have the tail out and be able to catch it. I suspect familiarity would have helped with the McLaren, but, at that point, the Ferrari felt on a different level - I've never driven a better car than that Ferrari.
Ok.. but a Speciale is a totally different beast to the standard 458…
Here in France, used 12 C's for sale are between 127000 and 160000 euros actually,
but used 458's starts from 210000 up to 360000 euros ! Even 839000 euros for a 458 speciale spider with low mileage !
Thanks, a great concisely well put video on info regarding the 12 c
I thought the main criticism was it's reliability
It’s the main criticism towards McLarens in general, not the 12C in particular.
Build quality and poor customer service probably condemned McLaren more. Customer service goes a long long way, and McLaren and its dealers have a long long way to go. Fortunately, there are now independent specialists for cars out of warranty.
It was more the dealer networks ability to support it. As an all new and complex car from a new manufacturer it was always going to be a difficult task but the dealers did a poor job AND McLaren didn't have the capacity and procedures to cope. The gearbox issue Jack references was a minor repairable fault but due to McLaren;s contract with Graziano required that ANY and ALL gearbox issues required the gearbox was replaced and the old one returned to Graziano for inception.
@@markcole1473 seea13 4.
@@raistaparta more so the 12c
A gorgeous yellow and black 12c paid us a visit on a guest day at our gun club. We all took turns to sit in it and enjoy the feel of a real supercar. Sad to say it left on the back of a recovery vehicle after failing to engage any gear. We never got to see it again - the owner told us later that he'd replaced it with an Audi R10.
As usual, a super informative and entertaining video. My context is my company designed and manufactured the original IRIS infotainment system, quite correctly described as “dated” by Jack but it was 12 years ago…..McLaren were incredibly supportive and provided us with test MP4-12C’s whenever we wanted one. In fact they shipped a development car from Woking, UK to our Seattle, US software development facility for our 100% use. Anyway, I do recall that at the time I just couldn’t understand why anyone would pay £210k for a MP4-12C (In 2013) as it’s performance was legally unusable. My view has now changed and have enjoyed various Ferraris but not a McLaren. Maybe I should review that after Jack’s video? But then again my 308GTB is probably the best ratio of character:price:performance I have. Anyway, a bit of a ramble but when my favourite 308 commentator discusses MP4-12 I had to add my bit.
It is a good looking car, I have heard that build quality and after sales were not that good.
Hello Jack
I know that sweeping S bend that you took at speed and it has special memories for me.
Some years back I owned a Honda C50 cub motorcycle.
I drilled some holes in the exhaust and it sounded and went like a dragster.
I had the bike flat out in that S bend, the bike was so banked over that the bottom of the guard that keeps the wind of the legs was scratching the road.
Thanks for posting and all the best Andy
Now THAT is some fun, god... a C50 Cub, haven't seen those around for a while...just like the Camino.
Michael Kenis
It was great fun. Prior to buying the cub for work I had a Kawasaki zzr 600 and wore full race leathers.
I use to wear the full race leathers while riding the cub.
So you can probably imagine how cool I looked
All the best Andy.
Fantastic!! Thanks for the memories
Great review Jack; thank you again. Not sure if it's too late, but I think you have the values the wrong way around in your early graphic (about 40 seconds in) showing the 458 at £75k and the 12C at £135k. I understood what you said and that was clear by the way!
Best looking McLaren in my opinion - proportions are just right.
Great video. Some very interesting comments from you and others on this topic.
I think a lot of this is criticism is in parts and repair costs.
When tested by Fifth Gear, Plato spun it, he can’t remember when he last spun a car and the car sent Tiff careering off of the circuit. They didn’t like it.
That's because it has an open diff, as compared to Ferrari's E diff (Limited Slip). Open diffs cannot be used to drift. The brake steer was also not meant for it. The P1 cn drift with brake steer but it kills the brake pads. Later Mcs had variable drift control software to help control sideslip angle. Only now in the Artura did Mclaren finally turn to e diffs.
@@srinitaaigaura
Thanks. 👍
Mclaren can be innovative but sometimes they rush technology.
Ferrari test drive their cars to destruction!
Oh yeah Jack it looked like a Rolls Royce drive as you hit that bump and you and the camera jumped with the shock ! 😊
The Mclaren's biggest problem was the lack of a limited slip e diff - they used an open diff which every car reviewer used to show off why the car wasn't fun to drift and trash in corners. The suspension was superb though, I hear the Speedtail is even better. Mclaren's service was what ruined it.
Ferrari offers AMCs on old cars which is basically a giant extended warranty and it's a total bargain - the LaFerrari service pack is only 45 k a year and they'll keep it new and in tip top shape - for the price of the car that's a bargain. In comparison, there was one guy who bought a fully serviced P1 after shelling out 300 k for fixing everything and all of it broke down in one year. That was a good horror story.
I can only dream about having a car like this, the maintenance upkeep would probably be not such a nice dream though! Great review Jack...
Very good review and I think in the years ahead, the 12C will be looked on
much more favourably, compared to when it was launched.
Also on a slight sidenote Jack...Do you and Harry have a schedule worked out for when
each of you can test cars on that road....😉😄
I think it's the best looking of the modern McLarens. It looks classy and not overdesigned
12c is junk, McLaren even admits it in the tsb recalls
Great video (love the 12c) … I think the prices are back to front though?
Yup
You mixed up your prices in the first graphic… regardless I’m now sizing one of these up instead of an F355/F360. Thanks to Jason for letting it get a bit muddy.
HI! You looked scared! Thinking about the repair bill? Good looking car! Thank you Jack for great video~~
I love my 12C and kept it despite it now sharing garage space with 765LT and 458 Speciale. UK car media misunderstood it at launch, which dented its reputation. Sharp handling, crazy power, good comfort (but not nearly as comfortable as claimed here).
You talked about the interesting engine soul. When i heard that was thinking what will people in the future say about this topic, when they talk about electric engines. Because they all feel similar.
At auction they are making even less than £75k - collecting cars sold a couple recently, a 12c Spider for £69,500 and a hardtop for £59k (all plus fees) but what a bargain...
Ferrari has a true italian soul, hard to explain...Mclarens seem a little cold...
You’ve got your numbers in the table (price) transposed Jack. Great video.
Sounds like a Porsche 718 four cylinder boxer - I like it❤
Brilliant review of an amazing car that looks and sounds incredible and cutting edge for it's time ❤️
Me - I really enjoy Number 27
Also Me - I don't believe he has ever done a negative review 🤔
I only tend to review cars I’m interested in… which means though I may point out their flaws I don’t tend to do negative reviews. But check my Mercedes R107 review or the one on the Cayenne!
@@Number27 👍
Lack of specialists and costly parts
=
Kiss of death
Exactly, the reviews never take in what you do and what its costs when it goes wrong and
my god, they do go wrong, and McLaren prices for spares make Ferrari's look a bargain.
Thanks for your review. I am planning to rent a 12C this coming January in San Diego. I am interested in different people's opinions and reviews. I am hoping the auto insurance company says yes 😆.
Great informative video. 👍
These are quite the bargain nowadays. It's a relatively attainable supercar for me with performance that still holds up. I would love to have one as a weekend car in the future. Great review
wow. had no idea this car was so outstanding. cheers Jack!
Well done on this one Jack, great review as usual.
Fabulous car, love the looks and that it is to all intents and purposes looked upon as a British car.
As you mention, the reliability was an issue, still is, parts are very expensive and seem to be needed more than some other cars.
Great sound and seemingly a great road holder, prices seem to be OK but parts and electrics as with so many other cars now, especially with electrics being so complex and therefor high cost repairs.
Thanks a ton!
Love the way the spoiler moved under braking
On that 5th Gear comparison with Tiff Needel and Jason Plato, the 458 Italia smashed the 12c.
I think the reason for the price difference is because of the reliability. Ferrari stole the show with their warranty schemes.
I think aesthetically this will age very well indeed ❤
Ive got a 12C spider and a 720 Spider; I have done 50k miles in the 12C and 32k in the 720. The 12C remains a hugely capable supercar and you can just jump in it and drive very hard and it will look after you. Its fast enough for most people and is ageing very well. My Swiss pal did around 130k miles in his 12c. Yes, its not been without its problems but those have tapered off and its now mostly trouble free. It remains the very best supercar you can buy (for your first one) and is certainly undervalued.
For a car that wasn't designed in Italy, i hve to say it looks pretty good. I reckon Gordon Murray is part Italian (his car collection is more than half Italian.....)
Great video 📹, thanks
That was a splendid car... and as you say, probably an overall better car than the Ferrari. I fear that 'back then' Mc Laren seemed too much of a gamble in terms of build quality and after sale customer care. ?
Nice review, it's a very understated looking car but in a good way, especially in that colour.
I wish all DCT transmissions used the McLaren setup (push the right to downshift, push the left to upshift & vice versa….)
after I purchased my Evora back in 2012 I was very keen on getting a 12c. A used one popped up at the dealer in 2015 for about $130K USD. I took the drive and did like the car. Checked the maintenance records and stopped dead in my tracks. A car with less than 5k miles had had $60 in service. Doing my own maintenance was not a real option.
Dealer suggested I purchased an extended warranty for $6k and year and that did not include regular service.
My Lotus is dead simple to work on and has a Toyota drive train. If the Mclaren was light years above the Lotus I might be able to justify the cost, but that sadly is not the case.
Short story is I kept the Lotus. I get the quirky British build quality, design and performance for a fraction of the price.
McLaren is also not a fan of tracking your car. To many people have voided warrantees do to too much track time.
$60k in service
(Twin Turbo V8)
12C - 540c -570s - 570GT - GT - 650s - 675lt - 600lt - 720s - 765lt
(NA V8)
458 Italia - 458 Speciale.
Plato and Tiff didn't like it