228d-e: "Only if you first show me what you are holding in your left hand under your cloak, my friend. I strongly suspect you have the speech itself." On its face this question seems trivial, yet, when we get to the second section on writing, the significance of whether Phaedrus was recalling the speech from memory or from a written transcription becomes clear. Writing discourages appropriating knowledge *for oneself,* and so the apparent fact that Phaedrus had to read from a scroll or whatever only further justifies Socrates in his attempt to keep his (beloved?) friend away from sophistry. Thanks for this video. It's been helpful.
Yes, thanks. I also see 234d where Socrates says "I was looking at you while you were reading..." - I think this fairly settles the point. Thanks for chiming in, and glad you found the video useful. You're spot on about this - it's not a trivial question at all. The theme that emerges near the end is critical to the piece and I didn't quite get into it in depth, here: Socrates explores writing as a technology and its limitations. Including this important point you mention here - that in his view we seem to pass on only a shadow of the original knowledge when we write something. It's a great piece to think about for the philosophy of technology, theory and history of writing and language, and other interdisciplinary considerations. For context, I read this with students in my upper-level undergraduate rhetoric course, within a Writing program, but I was first exposed to it in a graduate seminar on Writing as a Technology. Thanks again! Take care.
Never doubt about the superb literal quality of Plato´s writings. Second to none in my opinion.
This was great Dr. Dan, thanks!
Thanks, Dan! Helpful for rhetoric theory course
Plato’s Pharmacy in Derrida’s Dissemination is a very elucidating post-reading work for those who are interested.
228d-e: "Only if you first show me what you are holding in your left hand under your cloak, my friend. I strongly suspect you have the speech itself."
On its face this question seems trivial, yet, when we get to the second section on writing, the significance of whether Phaedrus was recalling the speech from memory or from a written transcription becomes clear. Writing discourages appropriating knowledge *for oneself,* and so the apparent fact that Phaedrus had to read from a scroll or whatever only further justifies Socrates in his attempt to keep his (beloved?) friend away from sophistry.
Thanks for this video. It's been helpful.
Yes, thanks. I also see 234d where Socrates says "I was looking at you while you were reading..." - I think this fairly settles the point. Thanks for chiming in, and glad you found the video useful. You're spot on about this - it's not a trivial question at all.
The theme that emerges near the end is critical to the piece and I didn't quite get into it in depth, here: Socrates explores writing as a technology and its limitations. Including this important point you mention here - that in his view we seem to pass on only a shadow of the original knowledge when we write something.
It's a great piece to think about for the philosophy of technology, theory and history of writing and language, and other interdisciplinary considerations. For context, I read this with students in my upper-level undergraduate rhetoric course, within a Writing program, but I was first exposed to it in a graduate seminar on Writing as a Technology.
Thanks again! Take care.
See my newer video on the overall structure of Plato's Phaedrus: th-cam.com/video/wSvkhQ2qjio/w-d-xo.html
If your interested in the Erastes-Eromenos relationship, K.J Dover's Greek homosexuality might be a good place to start.
What is the politics of plato in this text?