There are records about a single KV-2 assaulting the Finnish lines in 1939. It got stopped (literally) by barbed wire and then got tracked by an AT-mine, crew abandoned. Probably some proto-type being tested by drunk crew who thought it was a good idea.
Hey! I requested a very similar scenario a few days ago on one of your other videos. Thanks for doing this! I've always wanted to know what would happen.
I don't think if anyone was operating this machine gun - that his brain would keep structural integrity long enough to understand/experience what is happening
We do not get to see the pressure waves when the shell detonates, but the amount of spalling is insane, is that shell blast powerful enough to detonate the ammorack in the Tiger 1? Regardless of that question, amazing simulation as usual!
It would definitely have the potential to detonate ammo but the 1000s of buckshot sized particles entering the tank seem like a bigger problem. The blast wave itself would be enough to knock out the crew
imagine a machine gun just flying towards u from the gas pressure while u are in there, potentially with enough force to tear down any part of fascist propaganda with superior russian engineering
Probably one of the best simulations yet, the amount of complex shapes and separate parts interwoven to form the upper plate around the MG34 mantlet is incredible compared to just a flat piece of RHA
Steel is roughly 10~15 times stronger than concrete, so a shell intended to defeat concrete can have much thinner walls and thus a much larger explosive payload.
My favorite fact BOUT the KV-2 is that its turret was so massive compared to the turret drive system, that if it were on more than slightly uneven ground the turret would slowly spin towards the lowest point of the tank if the crew tried to traverse it. The weight was too much for the drive system to overcome the sheer weight on uneven ground.
I like how it just removes the whole gun and armored mount from the tank. That would fly into the radio operator's face along with all the spalling and shrapnel. That's wild.
Can you do a video about the technical details of how these simulations work-either the physics or the actual underlying code? I'd love to learn more about them!
Yeah. Those things would bounce around the fighting compartment of the tank for a moment or two, stirring up anything squishy they happened to come across.
Thats exactly what I figured would happen: the entire port would be dislodged. Armor is only as good as the weekest point and the lip holding the ball mount is 25mm at best.
It goes through concrete easily but it barely ‘penetrates’ the port, it turns the port into shrapnel. How is it slowed so easily by metal but flies through concrete is my question.
Could you do a penetration simulation with the APCBC round from the 17 pdr (shot Mk VII?) under the same external conditions as your simulation of the T33 90mm AP round against the Panther upper frontal plate? I’ve read that when the US did trials to see whether they were interested in using the 17 pdr, the conclusion was that the 90mm performed better, among some other factors, and so the 17 pdr wasn’t pursued further for mounting in US vehicles. I’d be very interested to see how they visually compare, in a simulation, rather than post test photos.
What would happen if it hit the front plates, non-angled and angled one? Would it penetrate, and if not, would the over pressure be enough to kill the crew or simply knock it out?
I can only see the commander and maybe gunner survive a 152mm to the front plate. Driver's brain would get turned to mush. One thing's for sure, that Tiger ain't gonna move
Very nice simulation, I just had a quick question How were you able to simulate the explosion? Did you use Euclidean reference instead Lagrangian for the reference frame?
Main reason was actually that the mg34 barrel could be changed without removing the gun from the mount by twisting the receiver to the side. The mg42 had its barrel pop out the side of the barrel jacket which wouldn't have been possible when in a ball mount
Yeah, this actually went about as I expected. I had a feeling the shell itself wouldn't necessarily penetrate, but that it would lodge itself hard in the port, then explode, and send the MG into the machine gunner's face. I'm impressed with my own accuracy.
welp in WOT is even worse, they nerfed the HE shells so they only cause damange if penetrates the armor. I can shoot the side of a Tiger at point blank range and do basically nothing....they ruined my favorite tank there so i basically gave up and uninstalled
According to a German range test, on a captured KV-2, the CPHE shell could penetrate up to 124mm. of RHA @ 0 degrees @ 100 metres & could breach (blast a hole through) up to 8.6 metres of reinforced concrete.
I'm starting to wonder if bow MGs were effective or worth having on a vehicle in the first place. I'm assuming they weren't effective enough if they are no longer used on modern MBTs.
Infantry. Modern infantry aren't like WW2 infantry, modern infantry don't carry explosive powder around and throw them under tanks, they just use the simple and easy to use javelin, while during WW2 the average infantryman would be carrying a large bag of explosive powder, to throw under a tank incase he ever came into contact with one, so tanks had to have machine guns to defend against this from happening, and infact, later in the war when the machine guns were rarer in tanks more tanks blew up to infantry than enemy tanks, take the jagdtiger as an example, or the german panzer IV (J) if I'm not mistaken, many of those died to infantry than to other tanks (the vast majority were blown up by their own crews however..due to fuel shortages and demoralization of armies). Also, bow MG ports aren't even a weakspot in the armor, it's a strong spot (if it was made to the same thickness metal as the main plate, like in german and soviet tanks) since it tends to have thicker more overlapping armor, so don't be fooled by videogames which make you think they are weakspots, of course this doesn't apply to the american tanks, since they for some reason didn't want to pay for it I guess, but it's not like it's any worse to not put it, since the chances of a shell even hitting such a tiny spot is so small, so it's not worth the thousands of dollars in material and production costs just for 2 or 3 tanks to be knocked out that way really.. (I'm not implying that only 3 american tanks blew up to MG port shots).
Nowadays tanks have machine guns on the roof instead of the hull. With remote controlled RWS setups, you don't need to have a guy sitting on the top of the tank to shoot it either.
Personally wouldnt want to be sitting behind half of an MG34 propelled to 200m/s
The blast wave wouldn't be very nice either...
I guess they all fine, slightly yellow but it doesn't matter
@@Sillycet The Simpsoooooooons~!
looks like it would have been kind of bad. even if it didn´t detonated.
There are records about a single KV-2 assaulting the Finnish lines in 1939. It got stopped (literally) by barbed wire and then got tracked by an AT-mine, crew abandoned. Probably some proto-type being tested by drunk crew who thought it was a good idea.
Hey! I requested a very similar scenario a few days ago on one of your other videos. Thanks for doing this! I've always wanted to know what would happen.
If you get hit by a 152mm High Explosive Anti-Concrete Shell, you're gonna have a bad time.
imagine standing under a giant church bell as it is vibrating.
That's tank warfare.
Amen.
As some might say:
“A pretty significant emotional event”
A Horizontally Spinning 152mm High Explosive Anti-Concrete Shell, thank you very much.
You can also call it an anti-everything-weaker-than-concrete shell
Undoubtedly a significant emotional event for the crew
That is, if the crew could still have emotions
Last event
A very brief event but an event nonetheless
I don't think if anyone was operating this machine gun - that his brain would keep structural integrity long enough to understand/experience what is happening
Your machine gunner being removed from existence will do that
"Did the shell kill the machine gunner?"
"No Captain, the machine gun did"
It was not happy with its working condition, too much pressure
Radio men
We do not get to see the pressure waves when the shell detonates, but the amount of spalling is insane, is that shell blast powerful enough to detonate the ammorack in the Tiger 1? Regardless of that question, amazing simulation as usual!
It would definitely have the potential to detonate ammo but the 1000s of buckshot sized particles entering the tank seem like a bigger problem. The blast wave itself would be enough to knock out the crew
that's insane holy...
it's physics
imagine a machine gun just flying towards u from the gas pressure while u are in there, potentially with enough force to tear down any part of fascist propaganda with superior russian engineering
@@Varvite Did you have a stroke whilst typing this?
Probably one of the best simulations yet, the amount of complex shapes and separate parts interwoven to form the upper plate around the MG34 mantlet is incredible compared to just a flat piece of RHA
Well that's one way to change the barrel of a machinegun.
With the whole machinegun and it's operator while you're at it.
I love these simulations I never understood how penetration worked or the damage it could cause keep up the excellent work
Huh. Didn’t know that the shell was so hollow on the inside. Totally different from the usual APHE shells.
Because its more like SAPHE which is basically an HE shell which can penetrate some armour/concrete first, then the blast does the rest
What does the s stand for
@@barklet6110 probably semi
@@barklet6110 semi-armor piercing high explosive
Steel is roughly 10~15 times stronger than concrete, so a shell intended to defeat concrete can have much thinner walls and thus a much larger explosive payload.
My favorite fact BOUT the KV-2 is that its turret was so massive compared to the turret drive system, that if it were on more than slightly uneven ground the turret would slowly spin towards the lowest point of the tank if the crew tried to traverse it. The weight was too much for the drive system to overcome the sheer weight on uneven ground.
I’m paraphrasing, but as the word from the great Chieftain, if you get hit by one of these, you’re in for a severe emotional event
By far one of the most satisfying simulations on this channel.
Could you 152mm HE against the regular tiger plate? Would be so cool to see how that would go down!
How to repaint the interior of your tiger tank red in one easy step!
That guy after seeing 152mm shell flying towards him : 💀
My God! That WW2 must've been terrifying! I'm just glad no one got hurt.
it was fought with an emphasis on safety^^
No one got hurt??
What the bleeding heck are you saying.
@@JackFrost008 joke
I like how it just removes the whole gun and armored mount from the tank. That would fly into the radio operator's face along with all the spalling and shrapnel. That's wild.
Can you do a video about the technical details of how these simulations work-either the physics or the actual underlying code? I'd love to learn more about them!
The Tiger crew has just suffered an emotional event. The hull gunner's next of kin has suffered an extremely emotional event.
More 152 HE please.
Well that's a bad time. Not to mention all the shrapnel, but the back half of the MG34 and its armored mount are moving at significant velocity too!
Yeah. Those things would bounce around the fighting compartment of the tank for a moment or two, stirring up anything squishy they happened to come across.
Now I'm gonna try to explain this to Gajin
Thats exactly what I figured would happen: the entire port would be dislodged. Armor is only as good as the weekest point and the lip holding the ball mount is 25mm at best.
Hitting a Tiger’s machine gun port with a 152 mm shell would be a ‘Golden BB’ lucky shot for a KV-2.
@@timonsolus are you telling me real life isnt like warthunder 😲😲
@@youlaughyouphill842 "Hit" +10SL
How about anti concrete shells being used to anti the concrete? How does it do such things.
It's got a lot of explosive in it to seriously ruin the day of whatever building you put it into.
It simply asks the concrete politely, yet firmly, to fuck off
But how does it penetrate so much concrete. Surely heavy and strong substances like concrete should be able to stop penetration of up to a meter.
It penetrate armor steel.
Now go figure how it penetrate concrete.
It goes through concrete easily but it barely ‘penetrates’ the port, it turns the port into shrapnel. How is it slowed so easily by metal but flies through concrete is my question.
Welp, that gunner was having a bad day💀
What do you mean the shell didn't completely disappear into oblivion?
It wasn't the driver's hatch with 1000mm of magical Kruppstahl.
Helluva shot given soviet gunnery optics!😀
They used World of Tanks Russian gun accuracy for this.
Clearly they had enough of Stalin's favor to hit the enemy
seems like the rha didn't had a scratch on it, but the shrapnel got inside cause of the machine gun port, it is weak.
Could you do a penetration simulation with the APCBC round from the 17 pdr (shot Mk VII?) under the same external conditions as your simulation of the T33 90mm AP round against the Panther upper frontal plate? I’ve read that when the US did trials to see whether they were interested in using the 17 pdr, the conclusion was that the 90mm performed better, among some other factors, and so the 17 pdr wasn’t pursued further for mounting in US vehicles. I’d be very interested to see how they visually compare, in a simulation, rather than post test photos.
Can we see it hit the armor adjacent to the MG port for comparison?
All I have to say is, FEAR THE FRIDGE
What would happen if it hit the front plates, non-angled and angled one? Would it penetrate, and if not, would the over pressure be enough to kill the crew or simply knock it out?
I can only see the commander and maybe gunner survive a 152mm to the front plate. Driver's brain would get turned to mush. One thing's for sure, that Tiger ain't gonna move
The pressure and frags would Kill all inside !!! Semper Fi
The Radio operator/machine gunner is not having a fun time, Jeebus-
It's really cool to see how many kinetic Energies are transferred to the MG ball
Do the same simulation on the 102mm frontplate without the weakspot pls.
"explosion pushes and turns everything into a projectile"
Very nice simulation, I just had a quick question How were you able to simulate the explosion? Did you use Euclidean reference instead Lagrangian for the reference frame?
without HE filer, the video would have concluded NON PEN
The pressure inside the tank must be insane
Scariest part of this imagine you're the driver then one second later the radio crew's head exploded.
German Mains in warthunder: NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
Fantastic simulation
Turned the mg42 into an anti personnel round
MG-34. They never made a port version of the MG-42. Main reason was that the 34 had a single shot mode and the 42 didn't.
Main reason was actually that the mg34 barrel could be changed without removing the gun from the mount by twisting the receiver to the side. The mg42 had its barrel pop out the side of the barrel jacket which wouldn't have been possible when in a ball mount
i want to report a murder.
Love how he anti-concrete round has only 800 grams less HE filler than the HE round
Commander and other crews: *"SHOOT THE FUCKING SHELL IDIOT"*
The MachineGunner: "Meh"
The shell can destroy bunkers but you know what can destroy? You.
Netflix:are you still watching?
Someone's daughter:
Yeah, this actually went about as I expected. I had a feeling the shell itself wouldn't necessarily penetrate, but that it would lodge itself hard in the port, then explode, and send the MG into the machine gunner's face. I'm impressed with my own accuracy.
r/iamverysmart
@@Ronald98 And modest.
The machine gunner : thank you SY simulations now i know how dead i am 🙃
Significant emotional event
Please do 122 mm D-25T BR 471 APHEBC vs Ferdinand hull front (100+100 mm at 12 degrees) from 100 meters.
That Ferdinand crew requires a bit more training if it's 100 meters away, head on, from 50 tons of poorly welded steel.
If the shrapnel dosent kill you, the gun now flying 263FPS will
Our radio man is knocked out! We can only signal nearby vehicles.
So, in summary, MG gunner is mince meat. Commander's missing his legs. Everyone has concussion and shrapnel wounds. Yep, a very bad day indeed.
and fried by the hot gasses from the explosion
@@LongTran-em6hc and suffocated by the acrid smoke filling the fighting compartments
Interesting that the explosion helped "push" the shell inside. I wonder how it will affect the damage to the crews
war thunder players: ahh thats a quick 13 second repair and a quick crew swap
pain, how about an ISU-152 APHEBC vs the panther front plate at 500m?
At least the MG port gunner would feel no pain, as there is no chance of survival from hundreds of buckshot-sized pellets.
The MG gunner/radio operator would probably never know what hit him, even if the round didn't explode.
Gaijin should take a note
welp in WOT is even worse, they nerfed the HE shells so they only cause damange if penetrates the armor. I can shoot the side of a Tiger at point blank range and do basically nothing....they ruined my favorite tank there so i basically gave up and uninstalled
MG34 to the 152mm anti concrete shell:
Im glad to kill my crew
Based on previous vs. Tiger 1 videos I'd say that this Tiger is like a Fury, constantly needing to change it's machinegunner lol
And that kids, is how you change a ball mount in the field!
Warthunder with volumetric shells:
Non penetration
"the radio operator is unconcious
Transmision damaged
Turret ring damaged"
According to a German range test, on a captured KV-2, the CPHE shell could penetrate up to 124mm. of RHA @ 0 degrees @ 100 metres & could breach (blast a hole through) up to 8.6 metres of reinforced concrete.
That's interesting, do you have a source for that?
> (blast a hole through) up to 8.6 metres of reinforced concrete.
Thanks 👍
They can just replace the machine gun and its all back to normal
Well the radio operator would probably dead imagine a big chunk of metal flying toward you.
German mechanic to crew, "Well, there's your problem.."
How about KV-2 vs: Panzer III/IV series to the turret gun mantlet/face, or for realism's sake, vs a Panzer II
Awesome simulations as always SY.
A high explosive round would have worked just fine! That is a 6 inch gun, and it makes a big boom!
That bow gunner is probably not enjoying that...
It's not like Hans gets some hot metal and the back bit of an MG34 in his head and would just say "No biggie"
@@anaveragesoviettankfromthe70s I dunno we're talking Ubermensch here. He'd probably shrug off that commie attack.
@@anaveragesoviettankfromthe70s War thunder would like to disagree with that statement.
@@bloodyredmonster8133 Snail physics applies to Snail game
@@anaveragesoviettankfromthe70s Agreed
We didn't even scratch them
Is it a real fuze delay? It seems extremely short for an anti-concrete shell
Its been reduced for simplicity but the shell stopped moving already so wouldnt make a difference
what program do you use to simulate this?
The mg gunner is going to have a severe emotional moment
I'm starting to wonder if bow MGs were effective or worth having on a vehicle in the first place. I'm assuming they weren't effective enough if they are no longer used on modern MBTs.
Infantry.
Modern infantry aren't like WW2 infantry, modern infantry don't carry explosive powder around and throw them under tanks, they just use the simple and easy to use javelin, while during WW2 the average infantryman would be carrying a large bag of explosive powder, to throw under a tank incase he ever came into contact with one, so tanks had to have machine guns to defend against this from happening, and infact, later in the war when the machine guns were rarer in tanks more tanks blew up to infantry than enemy tanks, take the jagdtiger as an example, or the german panzer IV (J) if I'm not mistaken, many of those died to infantry than to other tanks (the vast majority were blown up by their own crews however..due to fuel shortages and demoralization of armies).
Also, bow MG ports aren't even a weakspot in the armor, it's a strong spot (if it was made to the same thickness metal as the main plate, like in german and soviet tanks) since it tends to have thicker more overlapping armor, so don't be fooled by videogames which make you think they are weakspots, of course this doesn't apply to the american tanks, since they for some reason didn't want to pay for it I guess, but it's not like it's any worse to not put it, since the chances of a shell even hitting such a tiny spot is so small, so it's not worth the thousands of dollars in material and production costs just for 2 or 3 tanks to be knocked out that way really.. (I'm not implying that only 3 american tanks blew up to MG port shots).
Nowadays tanks have machine guns on the roof instead of the hull. With remote controlled RWS setups, you don't need to have a guy sitting on the top of the tank to shoot it either.
modern tanks still have machine guns, they're just not ever hull mounted anymore
On that Kugelblende 100 model is missing the 2nd holding ring on the inside.
Seems pretty realistic
Now try it on drivers port
What would happen if the 150 mm shell gets hit by the 7.5 mm ammunition before impact.
The more I watch these the less I want extra MGs in Sprocket tank designer.
Lmao man’s turned the MG34 into spall
The ghosts of the soviet dissidents can truly harm the german panzers and the Mighty Jingles' statement is vindicated😂
how about the upper frontal armor but angled at 38.8° degrees against kv2
Gunner had an extreme emotional event 😂
Bad day to be a mg gunner bro. I hope he soaked up all the shrapnel instead of his fellow crew lol
The machine gun itself became the fragmentation
The asistant driver's head ceased to exist.
now the hull machine gunner is a walking machine gun 👍
Any chance of some simulations with 3-4 inches of steel covered with 3-4 feet of concrete (like a reactor containment structure.
The snail: "Yep, the machine gunner is orange."
Unrealistic, the MG didn't absorb the entire shell... XP
Meanwhile in warthunder
"Hit"
Ivan, I when I said "Load AP", I didn't mean the fuking bunker shell!
Could you show what will happen if it hits the front armor or front turret
Why not simulate the anti concrete rounds hitting various types of armour on flat impact and slanted? Huh why only capula and bow gunner window shots?
Wait, so the shell does not shred the whole armour plate to pieces when it detonantes in the middle of it? This is hard to believe