This guy is so eloquent and easy to follow and understand. He didn't try to rush, showed several scenarios exhibiting the differences between the DCT & Centrifugal and above all made the video fun. Great content. Deserves more views.
Hey, @@BretTkacs ... is there anywhere to see how she setup the Magura hydraulic system with the Rekluse? You need an adjustable slave cylinder, right? I'm having some pretty crippling pain in my left hand and I'm considering cobbling together my own clutch system to make life a bit easier... Magura/Rekluse/quickshifter.
The addition of the left hand rear brake lever seems like the logical fix to the problem of no engine braking when stalling the bike on an uphill section (for the Honda). I haven't ridden offroad for many years but grew up riding small dirt bikes on single track and fire roads and more recently riding mountain bikes on nasty single track. Your riding skills and clear explanations on how to make the best of each type of clutch and what to expect and how to overcome the limitations is really helpful to someone looking at making a decision on what bike to choose. I'm guessing you are about 6 feet tall and your size and strength helps in handling a heavy bike on these type of trails. Your tips for how to handle gnarly uphill rocks and such could really save a less experienced rider from injury and/or bike damage. Good info and clearly presented. Thanks!
@@norsefalconer -- Thanks. I didn't realize there is a "parking brake" on the Honda AT. They should make an option of adding a proper left hand master cylinder and hoses to help out serious riders. I know a guy riding a big KTM Adventure who broke his leg on the Continental Divide Trail (while riding alone) and made it back to civilization, but with much struggle and pain. It was his second time doing the trek. He's younger than me but not a young buck. Don't think I could ride these big bikes on anything much rougher than a fire road. Too dangerous for an old fart like me.
Thank you for the informational video! I am driving an AT DCT since 3 years now and traveled a few thousand kilometers on unpaved roads. As it comes to those technique parts i was always very, very happy to have the DCT and not the version with the Clutch. We all know that when you already dropped your bike a few times that day, your heart is bumping and you’re already exhausted - then you only have to concentrate on the throttle and nothing else. This is easier than finding exact points of the clutch and the throttle. Also when your stuck with your rear tire, you are on your own and you want to rock it out. Try it with DCT and compare to clutch and lever. Do turning on a steep and narrow path where you use the shoulders of the path to go up and let fall back to turn around. Doing this with DCT is just easier than with the clutch. There are many other situations which makes it easier. I personally never ever wanted to go back to a bike with a clutch for my preferred scenario of traveling (with a mix of asphalt and unpaved/gravel roads). But as always: To each his own. Many Greetings over the ocean!
Fair and non biased, just straight forward information. Remember there is a parking brake on the DCT for those hill situations where the front brake won't hold. Also, you can disconnect the power in a whiskey throttle situation by hitting the neutral selector (Edit: I have gone to N while moving, but off throttle, I'm assuming it can be done throttle on but maybe not). Different muscle memory for sure, but easier to hit that button than try to reach for a clutch lever (Edit: "reach" is probably not the right word. But, folks I've seen whiskey were hanging on with both hands, no way getting that clutch lever).
@BMW R1200GS Adventure I deleted my original reply, I was being a smart aleck and that was wrong. "Reach" was the wrong word. But, the folks I've seen whiskey, were hanging on for dear life with both hands. No chance of getting that clutch lever. I put mine in neutral all the time as I'm rolling. Of course, that's throttle off, so maybe not in a whiskey situation.
At 3:40, you made an incorrect statement about the Africa Twin. The bike won't stall on a hill. If you do turn it off while on a steep hill (for some strange reason) there is a rear brake available via the left hand lever on the bar. You can easily use that to control the rear wheel. But it is kind of a moot point as they bike won't stall and you can easily crawl up steep sections where manual bikes can struggle.
R u UK Jarrett? I was puzzled by the comment about that by Bret - all the UK DCT bikes have a rear hold/parking brake for sure and can't see why American market won't?
Long time (4 years) DCT rider here. Got two valuable tips on 'taming' DCT after watching this video! AFAIK Bret is the only instructor/pro not paid by Honda (they should) who knows DCT well enough to put out this kind of video. I just wanted to emphasize what was mentioned in passing somewhere in the video about using rear brake with DCT- make generous use of the rear brake as needed while you're working the throttle; With DCT, the rear brake IS your clutch control.
@ bulu patnahak.. Very difficult.. Scenario for short.. Ppl.. Same 5.1 ft.. First of all getting bike of ohr size going offroad is another level challenge 😜😂
I remember when I was a kid I started riding a 1955 Jawa 350 and that one also used an auto clutch. Sort of. Mechanical. It was a butterfly shaped part linked to the shift lever that depressed the clutch every time you moved the shift lever up or down. So in case your clutch cable broke or you damaged the clutch lever you could still ride the bike no problem. And the shape of this part also allowed you to control the clutch slip directly with your shift lever without using you left hand. I missed this system on every other bike ever since...
Great article. I've got a 1290 and put a Rekluse on it. I still use the clutch as always but it helps when I get tired especially on single track. I've got the Rekluse on all 5 of my dirt bikes. My buddy has the Honda with DCT and he had major issues in single track. On the KTM I can lock the rear brake without touching the rear brake pedal. Nice addition offered on the KTM. Solid write up!
This review is spot on. I got stuck nose-up on a steep paved but slick hill that abruptly dead-ended on my DCT with no room to turn around. With no way to lock the rear wheel and the parking brake too weak to hold the bike as I tried to roll it backward, I was at the mercy of gravity and the bike ended up on its side. A manual would've been easy peasy in this situation.
It has been proven that multitasking is not easy nor efficient, but muscle memory is so...... On road with dct ,practice emergency braking doing the following, front brake , rear foot brake , and while downshifting with paddles and pull on parking brake, Master that and I will be impressed beyond belief! Ill bet Bret might master it if given a chance!!!!!
The dct bikes at least my ctx700 comes with a parking brake that prevents the bike from rolling down a hill. I put it on and plant my feet and never have rolled.
Great to see you demonstrate the finer points of these clutches on real world technical (for big bikes) terrain. Nice riding. Nice insights. Thank you!
I have the DCT. I think it's a bit harder in technical stuff with the DCT because it's easier to feather in power with a clutch lever rather than try to feather it in by turning a throttle (in tiny delicate amounts) that you're also using to hang on to the bike with. Pulling a lever versus twisting a handle basically. Even when changing the throttle settings it doesn't change this fundamental issue. Im very happy with it though.
I had the Rekluse clutch installed on my KTM 1190 and rode it for a year before I sold the bike. It was great most of the time and the good part is I still had the clutch anytime I wanted to use it. I could launch from a dead stop with utilizing the clutch as normal and still engine break and you would never know it had the Rekluse and you still used the clutch when shifting gears of course... I could come to a complete stop in traffic or putting around downtown all without pulling in the clutch. The down side to the Rekluse for me was yeah you never knew you had the Rekluse auto clutch installed until you rode through twisty corners on the street. You had to get used to it because when banking into a turn slowly, like if you weren't going fast enough for engine breaking then the Rekluse would disengage as it was designed to do and you would essentially be coasting in neutral (even though in 3rd gear), but then it would catch when it wanted to and then you would feel the engine breaking hit and you're never quite sure when it will do that. Oh you have an idea but it feels really weird and it may do it when you don't want it too. You have to learn to blip the throttle so that way YOU can control when the engine catches with the wheel and no surprises. I haven't test rode the Africa Twin w/DCT yet but I would like to see what it feels like in the slow turns.
Watching Bret in those rocks makes me feel a lot better about my riding/technique. Not to say that I'd ever be able to compare myself to his riding, but it's nice to see that even a rider such as himself can have a bit of difficulty getting through stuff like that. I'll admit that there are times on steep/rocky trails where I get hung up and even frustrated with my ability to get the bike up a technical section of a trail. This will sit in the back of my mind and likely help me to remember that even the best have to work it a bit to get through the rocks and such.
I just came across this video, I don’t understand why you shouldn’t use the mechanical parking brake to hold the bike on a hill (on the Dct) I do it all the time...it’s already there. It’s more than strong enough especially when used in conjunction with the front. I see very few advantages the a manual trans has over the DCT for ADV riding, aside from dumping the clutch to pop the front up or revving the engine to get attention , it’s very well sorted out. It would be nice to see a video clearly showing where having a manual trans is an advantage over the DCT (of course with someone who is very well versed in using a DCT bike). The DCT can do everything a manual can, just easier.
I've used both, but I prefer the manual control of my ktm with auto-shift, it doesn't take out nothing it just add the very useful functionality of shifting without using the clutch, and somehow even reads my mind and understand when I want to downshift from 2nd to 1st or go to neutral for a stop. It's probably the less spoken feature the ktm has and I'm loving it (beside auto-cruise, the dashboard, the sensors etc). The DCT / auto clutch are nice and useful but you sacrifice a feature for another and there is no reason to go that route when there is the auto-shift that works really well (not as an after market hack)
Eli Spizzichino Yea, my BMW Rallye has shift assist plus a clutch. While I haven’t had an opportunity to try it off-road yet, it seems to solve this concern the right way. This leads to the obvious question: Brett, when are you going to cover that feature, as well as the finer points of the Dynamic Enduro Pro modes (and the other competing bikes’ equivalents) that come with the recent models? Yes, I have watched your suspension vid, and unfortunately that is for an outdated system.
I’m a professional MTB cameraman. I use a KTM 250 with a Rekluse clutch. It’s a critical part of getting a smooth shot when you’re tracking a MTB at pace on trial. Enables me to chance gears on the fly with out having to worry about the clutch and it’s super smooth
As exciting and awesome as it is to have automatics on bikes, I never thought it was a good idea to not replace the left lever for a rear brake lever such as bicycles and scooters. Thanks for making a strong case for my cause. I think there should be brake levers under both hands on automatics and e-bikes (Livewire, Zero,etc) and a standard parking brake. I also think that most bikes would benefit from a simple reverse mechanism that would help us septuagenarians “back into it”.
I have no plans to buy either DCT or autoclutch, but here I am watching this anyway just to watch these skills. Just got my ADV bike, waiting for when I can get it off road in the spring.
Just an observation: You said their is "No Way" to stop the bike from rolling back down a hill when the front tire is sliding and you can't get to the foot peddle to activate the rear. Well, you can simply grab a handful of the mechanical rear or "parking break" with your left hand and stop the bike. That's how I load and offload my AT down a ramp from the truck. Additionally, I can keep the antilock on and use the mechanical break to lock up the rear and make a slide turn.
Getting that right foot from a dab to the brake can be tough on a steep grade.... ask me how I know .Recluse on my 2015 YZ250FX .. call me a cheater .I'm 50 and I love it on a woods bike! Great channel by the way thanks for the education!
Great review! I've ridden a fair bit with both systems and I agree with pretty much everything Bret says :) You basically have to take all that finesse you have learnt with your clutch hand, and apply it to the throttle applications. Takes a while to get used to, but once mastered it can be amazingly effective. I rode my 500EXC on very technical enduro tracks with the rekluse and apart from those times when you want to pop the front wheel up on something I never used the clutch (admittedly I'm not the worlds best rider either!). As for the DCT, would take it over a manual AT any day. Again, unless you are doing something so technical that you start getting into clutch blipping and pivot turns then the DCT will handle it all brilliantly assuming you are smooth enough with the throttle. If I bought one I would have ended up putting a left hand hydraulic rear brake on it though and removing the foot lever - makes more sense :)
Bret.. You are the master of taking heavy bikes to the edge of the envelop. I would never take a heavy bike to that level without a manual clutch. Congratulations for showing us how to get these super-automated bikes through these tough situations. My take-away so that I don't want ATC or auto clutch if I am going to do the riding that you showed.
actually, the recluse auto clutch's prime advantage is not stalling the bike while doing slow technical riding which is how 500 pound bikes end up on their sides. except for the free wheeling thing on slow/steep down hills(depending on the brakes rather than compression is kind of a challenge for some people) , you can use the clutch like always and so you don't notice the recluse is even there-many extreme endure riders depend on their rekluse as a tool to eliminate stalling . I guess I never thought of the recluse as something designed to reduce hand fatigue.
I agree with the observation on the honda.... dct needs the footbreak moved to the left hand..... which i did on mine and as a beginner off-roader it works wonder... it’s an easy switch with original parts from honda.... even the cruise control sensor can be adapted
Great analysis...I own both (GW with DCT and a Road Glide with Rekluse) and the assessment is 100% spot on. On-road they are great, off-road (which I've never done with either, only a traditional manual) they both could be a "hand full" (pun intended) because of the "whiskey throttle" issues on the DCT and the "rollback" (no RPM = no engagement of the gears aka you're in neutral) on the Rekluse and if you want to stop on a grade you'd have to use a brake lock/strap as shown. On my Rekluse I have to use one just to park the bike because it will roll even on a small grade and the DCT has a parking brake for the same reason. They are both excellent options but off-road I'd take a standard manual and get a bike with a clutch I could handle, then if needed/experienced enough consider the other options putting the Rekluse over the DCT.
Excellent...in every way. I was going to comment about using rear brake to help control wheel spin...when you brought up that point. The best review I have seen on these two systems. And how best to use them. Yes any system of this type also needs a separate rear wheel braking control. The Rekluse uses that aux clutch. But the DCT needs a brake or manual clutch over ride, as well.
Awesome video Brett. I'm a noob and I also thought about getting a DCT or Rekulse to make up for lack of clutch control, but after seeing this I really need to not consider it until clutch control is second nature and I can use an Autoclutch as a tool in the arsenal.
It sounds like you need more experience with the DCT tech. Get a real off road tire, use the varying levels of traction control, use the parking brake as needed, trust the tech, it works. It makes riding off road much easier and more controlled than using a manual clutch.
I rode with a guy a couple of weekends ago he had the DCT and struggled all the way through some technical trails. I was riding ol faithful R1150GS still a great machine take it everywhere. I have a Harley Davidson with a rekluse. Auto clutch that I installed I while back like 20K on it never a problem great for crowed city streets and such but I will keep a manual clutch for my off road riding. Great comparison video as always very informative. You are the man when it comes to big ass heavy adventure bikes!
Very good info but you didn't mention the downside of DCT, weight. Honda DCT on the AT adds about 30lbs. Recluse auto-clutch plus a QS gives all that fatigue reduction and other benefits without additional weight. I'm very happy with the Recluse on my 1190 Adv, about 30k miles with it.
IF and yep that's a capital "IF" you ever happen to come to Barcelona, Spain, PLEASE let me know. I'm a AT DCT owner and this video made me realise why I haven't been able to go up so very steep hills, bear in mind I'm 1.67cm tall so it make things more challenging but I'm always up for the challenge. However, having this technical knowledge is great. I haven't seen a video like this explaining the difference of DCT and rekluse before so thanks for coming up with this video. I always thought you were a beemer through and through but seeing you on a Honda is cool, you've defo found a good niche here. I'm really looking forward more DCT content from you. It'd also fun to have a motorbike course of you here although I know there are plenty of guys doing courses here. Yet, I can tell you that some of those courses are not very fond of DCTs haha. I'm whatever, but some people take this too seriously. :)
Excellent video. I've learnt to use an auto clutch (Rekluse) in conjunction with the clutch lever exactly as you describe. But you have put it into words which makes me realise what I am doing!! Thanks
Having the rear brake lever in place of the clutch (similar to mountain bike brakes) would be excellent for the DCT. I own one, love it, but that would be better than the foot brake because sometimes your using your legs elsewhere. It would help for low speed right turns as well.
Agree 100% for DCT Honda needs to put rear brake on left handle as backup. There are other scenarios where inability to disconnect rear wheel can bite you; bike falling to the side, loss of balance can result in unintended throttle application and then you are up for a ride. Otherwise DCT and Rekluse are solution looking for problem. Manual clutch is cheaper and simpler and easier to fix.. just saying.
Hi Bret, Good video as always. I have a Africa Twin with DCT. You didn't mention it much but I have been using the "parking brake" a lot while riding. Hills, controlling speed at slow speed etc.
I am a street rider considering getting into ADV, I am completely confused why you do not just use the rear brake. Both are putting pressure on the rear brake disk.
@@Evirthewarrior it's because there are a lot of times you will need either your left, right or both feet off the pegs to either balance the bike or keep the bike from falling over when riding on difficult trails like the ones he was on. When this happens, it's either very difficult or you can no longer use the rear brake and the front brake on a steeper hill won't be enough.. If you were to move the rear brake up to the handlebar like on a mountain bike, problem solved!
I ride and compete observed trials where you are on the clutch all the time controlling speed and power delivery constantly. I love technical riding on my adventure bike and ever since Honda indroduced the DCT I always wondered what it would be like. Thanks for a great video.
Finally the video I’ve been waiting for for four years on the DCT. ...How does it work in technical situations. Good info. Thank you. Maybe I’ll find out for myself soon. 🤞🏽
You know, to be fair I think maybe some of that was as much a tire problem than a clutch problem. Anyway, I’ve got a recluse and will say it almost always clutches better than me and saves a lot of energy in slow, messy situations. I can also confirm the bummer of not having engine braking when not running or when the revs are down. Parking on hills is an adventure, as is the instance of not making a steep climb like he said.
Really What is hand fatigue? Could not even watch the end of this video because of that statement. Half a century under my belt lets me know and love the fun of the clutch. Say all you want but that is one of the best part of riding.
I never park my bikes in neutral. I often park on hills and the transmission help hold the bike. Neither of the 2 options work worth a damn for me. Good thing I know how to ride. I often ride 2 up and sometime pull a trailer on long trips and just as often have to take off on steep inclines. Stalling my bike has not been a problem because I know how to ride.
наконец то профессиональный обзор. великолепная картинка. замечательный звук. все слышно. шикарная аранжировка. первоклассная работа оператора. 19 минут просто пролетели на одном дыхании! спасибо!
full lock right or left starting might be also difficult as you never know when dtc clutch will start working, so only with brake, when it's cold engine then dtc doesn't work good
In same situation I tosted my stock clutch in Wales a week ago, slipped slipped and toasted half way through happy valley my ktm mates had a lough but I am bummed not being able to finish the valley. I did let it cool and was fine to get back home after giving it allot of freeplay. I got f800gsa esa model 2017 and I did run it like my 350 excf 2015 but clutch is naturally more delicate than Dirt-bike clutch. I still run the clutch as still thinking about changing to reklus or get a stock rotax bmw onm clutch just so it can wait for mine to give up completely. I bought bike second hand 6k miles and put risers on it and adjusted the freeplay but I believe now after 7k on the bike it will need a new clutch and longer cable as raisers and stock cable must be putting some pressure on plates even without obvious signs of slippage. I like reklus but the freeroll worries me a bit as we do too much technical rocky slick rides in Wales.
I am riding africa Twin DCT To stop wheel spin alot, you can use hand break on left side while adding throttle. I faced loads of situation like that and i could manage to get rid of it by using hand breake.
I really like your vids. However would have been nice to see beefyer tires on the Honda. Most of us would have done that if we were planing on using as adventure bike. Keep up the good work!
What would your thoughts be on adding a Clake Left Hand Rear Brake/Clutch lever combination to a bike with the Rekluse auto clutch ??....solves control over the rolling back downhill from a stop problem and give you more precise control of the rear brake...stand rear brake pedal can also stay in place and be used if desired
Thanks Brett great review. BTW on your test Honda DCT, only the rear wheel was stock. I hope you have another video up with a proper shoes on both front and rear to give it another go to see if you appreciate any more. I totally agree with you on need of an hydraulic break for the rear wheel - It would be useful. I’ve had 2 incidents on my DCT where I was “Launched” when I fell in a deep rut and whiskey throttled the heck out of my throttle handle and was thrown clear of the bike. Besides the very technical (still trying to master it) I’m really enjoying all the benefits of my DCT.
I had a Rekluse clutch on my F800GS, best upgrade by far. I rode it like a normal clutch and just relied on it to avoid stalls. You are right, the F800 needs a hydraulic clutch. The factory one is just too heavy it kills your hands over long technical rides.
it just seems for me that no one engineer can design dual sport/adv motorcycle that have 1st gear that is low you van go slow walking speed like 2-3mph idle whit out using clutch and do comfy 80 mph at highway low engine rpm. SO WHAT CAN ENGINEER DO INSTEAD ? design automatic motorcycle gearbox that will burn that dual clutch in extended technical terrain because when clutch is fully engage bike is going 10-15 mph at idle engine speed
@@paska777 Actually, the KTM 1290 SuperAdventure was just like that. I could tractor through mud and sand at very slow speeds without stalling but still do 180KPH on the highway. Amazing bike!
Great review and tips!! The 2018 and up seems to have better throttle response than earlier versions. I'm new to the DCT world, and still working though it in the tough stuff. That said, I'm generally a big fan. You're exactly right about using the brakes to 'load' the power- I'm thinking a lot more practice is needed, but it is a mindshift. You're also correct about the whisky throttle- I've caught myself twice already, and the AT has a lot of grunt when it gets rolling. What are your thoughts on the traction control off-road?
Very interesting, thank you. I’ve had surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome, so my wrists are better than they were, but I’ve sometimes thought of putting a rekluse to my 1290SA, but looking at this i think I’ll just bear with the fatigue. It’s a pity the AT DCT had a knobby on the front but a street tire on the driven rear (which seems like an odd choice for that owner to make, IMO)
Ok, I don't understand why Honda doesn't add optional left/rear brake, that is like a no brainer. I am a big scooter user and I always loved to have the rear break on the left hand, I feel I have faster and preciser control with my hand then my feet. Is it possible to make an adaptation?
Thank you for the videos. As many people state in the comments, could you please shoot some more videos on comparing DCT / MT versions of Africa Twin, showing and discussing their cons and pros.
I drive Africa twin. I see how you drive it abd feels like off road is much more aggressively easier and cooler in your hands then GS.. Feels like you are much more speedy and fervently on AT
Interesting and informative as always Bret; think I'll be keeping my manual transmission though :-) Re your velcro strip idea. I cut up a circular slice of bicycle inner-tube and slid it on my throttle and it stays there permanently; then when needed stretch it over the front brake lever. It's very handy in numerous circumstances when combined with leaving the bike in gear, when you want to lock both wheels, or you want to lock the front wheel only eg. rear wheel off the ground, tyre repair, chain adjustment etc. All the best. Cheers Wayne
But, you can grab the emergency parking brake on the left grip and hit the red kill switch with your right thumb on the DCT in whiskey throttle situations. I do know it's kinda far up, but bigger hand people can grab it.
Would you say that the Aprilia mana 850 (CVT) is better than the DCT? B/c the mana is automatic, has paddle shifters, but also has a foot shifter for manual mode. No clutch lever though
Your comments on the lack of traction on the DCT are interesting considering you have a slick on the AT and you have a knobby on the auto clutch. Even stranger you do not have a oem tire on the front of the AT you have a knobby. Curious what point your really trying to make by keeping a slick on the AT and changing out the front tire to a knobby but then have both the front and rear off-road tires on the BMW then at the end saying the AT didn't do well as well.
That's the best you can do? What about a 10yr old 80k bike against a modern 1.2k bike? Lowered 800 vs a bike with real ground clearance? An 800 that is sprung for the 150lb owner vs a bike sprung ideally for my weight. When someone pays me to do these or offers tires and bikes then I will submit to your petty points that I already stated in the video. Give me three AT's one DCT, one with the Autoclutch and one standard and two other testers like a new rider and an average rider we will do a proper comparison.
@@BretTkacs I don't care about those other points but since you brought them up they should also be considerd before you dump on the ability for the AT to make traction like you did at the end. When the entire video is based on getting traction on in sticky conditions and you are comparing one transmission vs another at least do it with off road tires on the rear with both bikes plain and simple. Please explain why there is a tkc 80 front on the AT and a stock tire on the rear who the hell rides those too tires together. The rear is a 90-10 the other is a 50-50. If that's the way the bikes were given to you as a reviewer should have said something or at least brought it up at the end when for your closing arguments for those that do not know just how inferior the stock rear tire is to the mitas on the BMW.
I think Honda missed an opportunity to put a rear brake lever for the left hand...then you can have your feet free to catch yourself or walk and not roll back
QUESTION: what IS the best way to deliberately stall on a steep hill (e.g. if you need to walk the bike down for some reason)? Do you just quickly release the clutch lever? OR would you hit the kill switch?
@@BretTkacs thought those looked like Mitas from the side. Run the E09 Rear for offroad and the E07 for 50/50 on my DR650 but havent run anything but the full knobie C17 up front.... thinking I will try the e07 up there soon. Thanks.
Very nice video. I bought Africa twin DCT a month ago and I´m learning to ride it. This bike has a three-level traction control and a G button - to be honest, I´m a little bit confused about it. When (in what conditions) do you recommend to turn off traction control? Is it sufficient to use G button when riding on gravel, or it is better to reduce the degree of traction control? Thank you for patience with a beginner question.
I know you posted awhile ago, but I just got a KTM 790 R last week. One of the first things I did was head out with a riding buddy who has a KTM 1090R. We were both curious as to how the 790 matched up with his bike both on and off-road. The most profound response came from my buddy, he could not believe how light and agile the 790R is, and it definitely does tread further into the enduro/motocross space than any other twin cylinder adventure bike. If I had a complaint about the 790, the only one would be grunt in the 2k-3.5k rpm range. It is most definitely a weak point. No one ever talks about how slow you can "turtle it", but I like to relax in the woods and mosey along sometimes. Ain't happening on the 790, it wants you to win. lol
This guy is so eloquent and easy to follow and understand. He didn't try to rush, showed several scenarios exhibiting the differences between the DCT & Centrifugal and above all made the video fun.
Great content. Deserves more views.
Thanks guys, best real world non biased review of the DCT I have seen on the net so far.
@@BretTkacs This link not working ???
@@alainbrouillette7740 thanks for the heads up... I moved the events page to the title page so it altered the link.
Hey, @@BretTkacs ... is there anywhere to see how she setup the Magura hydraulic system with the Rekluse? You need an adjustable slave cylinder, right? I'm having some pretty crippling pain in my left hand and I'm considering cobbling together my own clutch system to make life a bit easier... Magura/Rekluse/quickshifter.
f9 and mototrek...only tv I need
aww, shucks,
Yes, ultimate truth
+ Motojitsu and Cross Training Adventure 🙌
The addition of the left hand rear brake lever seems like the logical fix to the problem of no engine braking when stalling the bike on an uphill section (for the Honda). I haven't ridden offroad for many years but grew up riding small dirt bikes on single track and fire roads and more recently riding mountain bikes on nasty single track.
Your riding skills and clear explanations on how to make the best of each type of clutch and what to expect and how to overcome the limitations is really helpful to someone looking at making a decision on what bike to choose. I'm guessing you are about 6 feet tall and your size and strength helps in handling a heavy bike on these type of trails. Your tips for how to handle gnarly uphill rocks and such could really save a less experienced rider from injury and/or bike damage. Good info and clearly presented. Thanks!
The DCT parking brake is on the left by the grip. Can't be easily modulated though.
@@norsefalconer -- Thanks. I didn't realize there is a "parking brake" on the Honda AT. They should make an option of adding a proper left hand master cylinder and hoses to help out serious riders.
I know a guy riding a big KTM Adventure who broke his leg on the Continental Divide Trail (while riding alone) and made it back to civilization, but with much struggle and pain. It was his second time doing the trek. He's younger than me but not a young buck. Don't think I could ride these big bikes on anything much rougher than a fire road. Too dangerous for an old fart like me.
@@BretTkacs That link doesn't work- could you repost?
@@marscruz you can use oem left hand master brake cilinder from the X-adv, with parking brake lever from vfr1200x dct
All honda parts
Stalling is an important part of my technique. 😀👍
Sometimes
Good opportunity to take a break and reevaluate life choices.
Thank you for the informational video! I am driving an AT DCT since 3 years now and traveled a few thousand kilometers on unpaved roads. As it comes to those technique parts i was always very, very happy to have the DCT and not the version with the Clutch. We all know that when you already dropped your bike a few times that day, your heart is bumping and you’re already exhausted - then you only have to concentrate on the throttle and nothing else. This is easier than finding exact points of the clutch and the throttle. Also when your stuck with your rear tire, you are on your own and you want to rock it out. Try it with DCT and compare to clutch and lever. Do turning on a steep and narrow path where you use the shoulders of the path to go up and let fall back to turn around. Doing this with DCT is just easier than with the clutch. There are many other situations which makes it easier. I personally never ever wanted to go back to a bike with a clutch for my preferred scenario of traveling (with a mix of asphalt and unpaved/gravel roads). But as always: To each his own. Many Greetings over the ocean!
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
Fair and non biased, just straight forward information. Remember there is a parking brake on the DCT for those hill situations where the front brake won't hold. Also, you can disconnect the power in a whiskey throttle situation by hitting the neutral selector (Edit: I have gone to N while moving, but off throttle, I'm assuming it can be done throttle on but maybe not). Different muscle memory for sure, but easier to hit that button than try to reach for a clutch lever (Edit: "reach" is probably not the right word. But, folks I've seen whiskey were hanging on with both hands, no way getting that clutch lever).
Honda should offer rider, and/or, train the trainer classes on DCT off-road techniques
There is a learning curve for sure. I still like the DCT
Norsefalconer no need to reach when you ride with a finger covering your levers at at all times.
@BMW R1200GS Adventure I deleted my original reply, I was being a smart aleck and that was wrong. "Reach" was the wrong word. But, the folks I've seen whiskey, were hanging on for dear life with both hands. No chance of getting that clutch lever. I put mine in neutral all the time as I'm rolling. Of course, that's throttle off, so maybe not in a whiskey situation.
BMW R1200GS Adventure I can confirm you can’t hit Neutral button when bike it moving.
DCT is not in neutral when you stop. It is in gear, but the idle is low enough that if you let off the throttle it rolls to a stop.
At 3:40, you made an incorrect statement about the Africa Twin. The bike won't stall on a hill. If you do turn it off while on a steep hill (for some strange reason) there is a rear brake available via the left hand lever on the bar. You can easily use that to control the rear wheel. But it is kind of a moot point as they bike won't stall and you can easily crawl up steep sections where manual bikes can struggle.
R u UK Jarrett? I was puzzled by the comment about that by Bret - all the UK DCT bikes have a rear hold/parking brake for sure and can't see why American market won't?
Long time (4 years) DCT rider here. Got two valuable tips on 'taming' DCT after watching this video!
AFAIK Bret is the only instructor/pro not paid by Honda (they should) who knows DCT well enough to put out this kind of video.
I just wanted to emphasize what was mentioned in passing somewhere in the video about using rear brake with DCT- make generous use of the rear brake as needed while you're working the throttle; With DCT, the rear brake IS your clutch control.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
The obstruction at 10 mins, how would a short rider ride through it? Because I see you have to use both the foot to take the bike out.
Being 5-9 I'm vertically challenged. Momentum is your best friend.
@ bulu patnahak.. Very difficult.. Scenario for short.. Ppl.. Same 5.1 ft.. First of all getting bike of ohr size going offroad is another level challenge 😜😂
Being short (I'm 5'6") and enjoying off road riding is a bit difficult at times.
@@danmanthe9335 unless we. Short riders create custom adventure bikes for our selves.. 😀 😜👍
Bulu Patnaik you use only one foot and get good at sliding left to right, right to left, using only one foot at a time.
I remember when I was a kid I started riding a 1955 Jawa 350 and that one also used an auto clutch. Sort of. Mechanical. It was a butterfly shaped part linked to the shift lever that depressed the clutch every time you moved the shift lever up or down. So in case your clutch cable broke or you damaged the clutch lever you could still ride the bike no problem. And the shape of this part also allowed you to control the clutch slip directly with your shift lever without using you left hand. I missed this system on every other bike ever since...
Great article. I've got a 1290 and put a Rekluse on it. I still use the clutch as always but it helps when I get tired especially on single track. I've got the Rekluse on all 5 of my dirt bikes. My buddy has the Honda with DCT and he had major issues in single track. On the KTM I can lock the rear brake without touching the rear brake pedal. Nice addition offered on the KTM. Solid write up!
This review is spot on. I got stuck nose-up on a steep paved but slick hill that abruptly dead-ended on my DCT with no room to turn around. With no way to lock the rear wheel and the parking brake too weak to hold the bike as I tried to roll it backward, I was at the mercy of gravity and the bike ended up on its side. A manual would've been easy peasy in this situation.
It has been proven that multitasking is not easy nor efficient, but muscle memory is so...... On road with dct ,practice emergency braking doing the following, front brake , rear foot brake , and while downshifting with paddles and pull on parking brake, Master that and I will be impressed beyond belief! Ill bet Bret might master it if given a chance!!!!!
The dct bikes at least my ctx700 comes with a parking brake that prevents the bike from rolling down a hill. I put it on and plant my feet and never have rolled.
Please more films with Africa twin !!!!😀
Great to see you demonstrate the finer points of these clutches on real world technical (for big bikes) terrain. Nice riding. Nice insights. Thank you!
Please do with Africa twin DCT 2020 ones
If you want to tour, train or grab a cup of coffee with me you can find where I will be here www.brettkacs.com
I dunno I'm sure both clutches have their advantages but I'll just stick with a manual clutch. Thanks for explaining the differences though.
Very good review and well shot. Have you tried using the hand break on the Africa on a uphill slope ?
It doesn't work great for that... I'd like a real hand brake for the rear
I have the DCT. I think it's a bit harder in technical stuff with the DCT because it's easier to feather in power with a clutch lever rather than try to feather it in by turning a throttle (in tiny delicate amounts) that you're also using to hang on to the bike with. Pulling a lever versus twisting a handle basically. Even when changing the throttle settings it doesn't change this fundamental issue. Im very happy with it though.
I've just got to the point where you explained about using the rear brake for this control - great solution!
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
I had the Rekluse clutch installed on my KTM 1190 and rode it for a year before I sold the bike. It was great most of the time and the good part is I still had the clutch anytime I wanted to use it. I could launch from a dead stop with utilizing the clutch as normal and still engine break and you would never know it had the Rekluse and you still used the clutch when shifting gears of course... I could come to a complete stop in traffic or putting around downtown all without pulling in the clutch.
The down side to the Rekluse for me was yeah you never knew you had the Rekluse auto clutch installed until you rode through twisty corners on the street. You had to get used to it because when banking into a turn slowly, like if you weren't going fast enough for engine breaking then the Rekluse would disengage as it was designed to do and you would essentially be coasting in neutral (even though in 3rd gear), but then it would catch when it wanted to and then you would feel the engine breaking hit and you're never quite sure when it will do that. Oh you have an idea but it feels really weird and it may do it when you don't want it too. You have to learn to blip the throttle so that way YOU can control when the engine catches with the wheel and no surprises.
I haven't test rode the Africa Twin w/DCT yet but I would like to see what it feels like in the slow turns.
Good points I hadn't thought of. One plus for the DCT, I'll never have to worry about using a pair of vise grips for a make shift shift lever. :-)
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
Watching Bret in those rocks makes me feel a lot better about my riding/technique. Not to say that I'd ever be able to compare myself to his riding, but it's nice to see that even a rider such as himself can have a bit of difficulty getting through stuff like that. I'll admit that there are times on steep/rocky trails where I get hung up and even frustrated with my ability to get the bike up a technical section of a trail. This will sit in the back of my mind and likely help me to remember that even the best have to work it a bit to get through the rocks and such.
One small comment I would make is that the Honda does have hand operated parking brake on the rear wheel in the event you stop or stall on a hill.
Can the left hand “park brake” be used on the Africa Twin to prevent roll backs on the tricky uphills when both feet are off the pegs?
I just came across this video, I don’t understand why you shouldn’t use the mechanical parking brake to hold the bike on a hill (on the Dct) I do it all the time...it’s already there. It’s more than strong enough especially when used in conjunction with the front. I see very few advantages the a manual trans has over the DCT for ADV riding, aside from dumping the clutch to pop the front up or revving the engine to get attention , it’s very well sorted out. It would be nice to see a video clearly showing where having a manual trans is an advantage over the DCT (of course with someone who is very well versed in using a DCT bike). The DCT can do everything a manual can, just easier.
I've used both, but I prefer the manual control of my ktm with auto-shift, it doesn't take out nothing it just add the very useful functionality of shifting without using the clutch, and somehow even reads my mind and understand when I want to downshift from 2nd to 1st or go to neutral for a stop. It's probably the less spoken feature the ktm has and I'm loving it (beside auto-cruise, the dashboard, the sensors etc). The DCT / auto clutch are nice and useful but you sacrifice a feature for another and there is no reason to go that route when there is the auto-shift that works really well (not as an after market hack)
Eli Spizzichino Yea, my BMW Rallye has shift assist plus a clutch. While I haven’t had an opportunity to try it off-road yet, it seems to solve this concern the right way.
This leads to the obvious question: Brett, when are you going to cover that feature, as well as the finer points of the Dynamic Enduro Pro modes (and the other competing bikes’ equivalents) that come with the recent models? Yes, I have watched your suspension vid, and unfortunately that is for an outdated system.
Having a Africa twin glad you threw it in the mix. Appreciate your knowledge and experience.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
I’m a professional MTB cameraman. I use a KTM 250 with a Rekluse clutch. It’s a critical part of getting a smooth shot when you’re tracking a MTB at pace on trial. Enables me to chance gears on the fly with out having to worry about the clutch and it’s super smooth
As exciting and awesome as it is to have automatics on bikes, I never thought it was a good idea to not replace the left lever for a rear brake lever such as bicycles and scooters. Thanks for making a strong case for my cause. I think there should be brake levers under both hands on automatics and e-bikes (Livewire, Zero,etc) and a standard parking brake. I also think that most bikes would benefit from a simple reverse mechanism that would help us septuagenarians “back into it”.
I have no plans to buy either DCT or autoclutch, but here I am watching this anyway just to watch these skills. Just got my ADV bike, waiting for when I can get it off road in the spring.
Another great and informative video! Thanks Bret and your crew! Great meeting you at the Touratech Rally this past summer in 2019.
How does the Honda DCT compare to a Husqvarna 360 auto transmission circa 1977?
I'm impressed with your riding skills! those bigger bikes are no joke...
Just an observation: You said their is "No Way" to stop the bike from rolling back down a hill when the front tire is sliding and you can't get to the foot peddle to activate the rear. Well, you can simply grab a handful of the mechanical rear or "parking break" with your left hand and stop the bike. That's how I load and offload my AT down a ramp from the truck. Additionally, I can keep the antilock on and use the mechanical break to lock up the rear and make a slide turn.
Getting that right foot from a dab to the brake can be tough on a steep grade.... ask me how I know .Recluse on my 2015 YZ250FX .. call me a cheater .I'm 50 and I love it on a woods bike! Great channel by the way thanks for the education!
Great review! I've ridden a fair bit with both systems and I agree with pretty much everything Bret says :) You basically have to take all that finesse you have learnt with your clutch hand, and apply it to the throttle applications. Takes a while to get used to, but once mastered it can be amazingly effective. I rode my 500EXC on very technical enduro tracks with the rekluse and apart from those times when you want to pop the front wheel up on something I never used the clutch (admittedly I'm not the worlds best rider either!). As for the DCT, would take it over a manual AT any day. Again, unless you are doing something so technical that you start getting into clutch blipping and pivot turns then the DCT will handle it all brilliantly assuming you are smooth enough with the throttle. If I bought one I would have ended up putting a left hand hydraulic rear brake on it though and removing the foot lever - makes more sense :)
Bret.. You are the master of taking heavy bikes to the edge of the envelop. I would never take a heavy bike to that level without a manual clutch. Congratulations for showing us how to get these super-automated bikes through these tough situations. My take-away so that I don't want ATC or auto clutch if I am going to do the riding that you showed.
actually, the recluse auto clutch's prime advantage is not stalling the bike while doing slow technical riding which is how 500 pound bikes end up on their sides. except for the free wheeling thing on slow/steep down hills(depending on the brakes rather than compression is kind of a challenge for some people) , you can use the clutch like always and so you don't notice the recluse is even there-many extreme endure riders depend on their rekluse as a tool to eliminate stalling . I guess I never thought of the recluse as something designed to reduce hand fatigue.
@@wimrawe2343 Sounds like the voice of experience. Thanks for the info
I agree with the observation on the honda.... dct needs the footbreak moved to the left hand..... which i did on mine and as a beginner off-roader it works wonder... it’s an easy switch with original parts from honda.... even the cruise control sensor can be adapted
Great analysis...I own both (GW with DCT and a Road Glide with Rekluse) and the assessment is 100% spot on. On-road they are great, off-road (which I've never done with either, only a traditional manual) they both could be a "hand full" (pun intended) because of the "whiskey throttle" issues on the DCT and the "rollback" (no RPM = no engagement of the gears aka you're in neutral) on the Rekluse and if you want to stop on a grade you'd have to use a brake lock/strap as shown. On my Rekluse I have to use one just to park the bike because it will roll even on a small grade and the DCT has a parking brake for the same reason. They are both excellent options but off-road I'd take a standard manual and get a bike with a clutch I could handle, then if needed/experienced enough consider the other options putting the Rekluse over the DCT.
Excellent...in every way. I was going to comment about using rear brake to help control wheel spin...when you brought up that point. The best review I have seen on these two systems. And how best to use them. Yes any system of this type also needs a separate rear wheel braking control. The Rekluse uses that aux clutch. But the DCT needs a brake or manual clutch over ride, as well.
Interesting comparison - makes me feel better about my clutch only GSA! Thanks so much for all you do!
Awesome video Brett. I'm a noob and I also thought about getting a DCT or Rekulse to make up for lack of clutch control, but after seeing this I really need to not consider it until clutch control is second nature and I can use an Autoclutch as a tool in the arsenal.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
It sounds like you need more experience with the DCT tech. Get a real off road tire, use the varying levels of traction control, use the parking brake as needed, trust the tech, it works. It makes riding off road much easier and more controlled than using a manual clutch.
Settings DCT, while testing? Abs off, g mode? Traction control setting off, etc. Thanks, some good stuff in that vid.
You are correct. I have the ATAS and have been playing with the setting. It is both fun and frustrating figuring out what / how they work, lol.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
I rode with a guy a couple of weekends ago he had the DCT and struggled all the way through some technical trails. I was riding ol faithful R1150GS still a great machine take it everywhere. I have a Harley Davidson with a rekluse. Auto clutch that I installed I while back like 20K on it never a problem great for crowed city streets and such but I will keep a manual clutch for my off road riding. Great comparison video as always very informative. You are the man when it comes to big ass heavy adventure bikes!
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
Very good info but you didn't mention the downside of DCT, weight. Honda DCT on the AT adds about 30lbs. Recluse auto-clutch plus a QS gives all that fatigue reduction and other benefits without additional weight. I'm very happy with the Recluse on my 1190 Adv, about 30k miles with it.
On a bike this heavy I'd argue that the extra weight of the DCT isn't really noticed.
But you point is a good one because things do add up.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
IF and yep that's a capital "IF" you ever happen to come to Barcelona, Spain, PLEASE let me know. I'm a AT DCT owner and this video made me realise why I haven't been able to go up so very steep hills, bear in mind I'm 1.67cm tall so it make things more challenging but I'm always up for the challenge. However, having this technical knowledge is great. I haven't seen a video like this explaining the difference of DCT and rekluse before so thanks for coming up with this video. I always thought you were a beemer through and through but seeing you on a Honda is cool, you've defo found a good niche here. I'm really looking forward more DCT content from you. It'd also fun to have a motorbike course of you here although I know there are plenty of guys doing courses here. Yet, I can tell you that some of those courses are not very fond of DCTs haha. I'm whatever, but some people take this too seriously. :)
We will, Jorge. Thanks for the feedback!
Brilliant comparison. Thanks! I just wish you had a 3rd bike in this review, the non-DCT Africa Twin with the same tires. That would be perfect.
Me too
Excellent video. I've learnt to use an auto clutch (Rekluse) in conjunction with the clutch lever exactly as you describe. But you have put it into words which makes me realise what I am doing!! Thanks
Having the rear brake lever in place of the clutch (similar to mountain bike brakes) would be excellent for the DCT. I own one, love it, but that would be better than the foot brake because sometimes your using your legs elsewhere. It would help for low speed right turns as well.
Agree 100% for DCT Honda needs to put rear brake on left handle as backup. There are other scenarios where inability to disconnect rear wheel can bite you; bike falling to the side, loss of balance can result in unintended throttle application and then you are up for a ride.
Otherwise DCT and Rekluse are solution looking for problem. Manual clutch is cheaper and simpler and easier to fix.. just saying.
Great video Bret, very informative for a DCT owner
You are the best rider I don't know! I really enjoy your informative vids!
Hi Bret, Good video as always. I have a Africa Twin with DCT. You didn't mention it much but I have been using the "parking brake" a lot while riding. Hills, controlling speed at slow speed etc.
Rekluse expects to have a proper hand brake in about 6 months. Should be a game changer
I am a street rider considering getting into ADV, I am completely confused why you do not just use the rear brake. Both are putting pressure on the rear brake disk.
@@Evirthewarrior it's because there are a lot of times you will need either your left, right or both feet off the pegs to either balance the bike or keep the bike from falling over when riding on difficult trails like the ones he was on. When this happens, it's either very difficult or you can no longer use the rear brake and the front brake on a steeper hill won't be enough.. If you were to move the rear brake up to the handlebar like on a mountain bike, problem solved!
Your problem at 8:15 could be due to a horrible back tire for the situation. The front is knobby and the rear looks to be a 50/50 at best.
Yep - These are bikes borrowed the morning we filmed, so no time to mount fresh tires.
@@MOTOTREK I see. However, it's difficult to come to any conclusion about the different clutches if the tires are up to the task.
I ride and compete observed trials where you are on the clutch all the time controlling speed and power delivery constantly. I love technical riding on my adventure bike and ever since Honda indroduced the DCT I always wondered what it would be like. Thanks for a great video.
I have a trials background and when riding super slow on my DCT I use throttle with back brake on with no problem!
What a nut doing that on a heavy DCT with those tires. Nice work!
Finally the video I’ve been waiting for for four years on the DCT. ...How does it work in technical situations. Good info. Thank you. Maybe I’ll find out for myself soon. 🤞🏽
You know, to be fair I think maybe some of that was as much a tire problem than a clutch problem. Anyway, I’ve got a recluse and will say it almost always clutches better than me and saves a lot of energy in slow, messy situations. I can also confirm the bummer of not having engine braking when not running or when the revs are down. Parking on hills is an adventure, as is the instance of not making a steep climb like he said.
Really What is hand fatigue? Could not even watch the end of this video because of that statement. Half a century under my belt lets me know and love the fun of the clutch. Say all you want but that is one of the best part of riding.
I was waiting for this exact video. I.m sure that i was not alone in this. Thank you so much.
You're welcome!
@@MOTOTREK what happens if you put the bike in to manual mode then tried on gear 1 or 2, this could be the reason manual mode exists.
I never park my bikes in neutral. I often park on hills and the transmission help hold the bike. Neither of the 2 options work worth a damn for me. Good thing I know how to ride. I often ride 2 up and sometime pull a trailer on long trips and just as often have to take off on steep inclines. Stalling my bike has not been a problem because I know how to ride.
наконец то профессиональный обзор. великолепная картинка. замечательный звук. все слышно. шикарная аранжировка. первоклассная работа оператора. 19 минут просто пролетели на одном дыхании!
спасибо!
full lock right or left starting might be also difficult as you never know when dtc clutch will start working, so only with brake, when it's cold engine then dtc doesn't work good
In same situation I tosted my stock clutch in Wales a week ago, slipped slipped and toasted half way through happy valley my ktm mates had a lough but I am bummed not being able to finish the valley. I did let it cool and was fine to get back home after giving it allot of freeplay. I got f800gsa esa model 2017 and I did run it like my 350 excf 2015 but clutch is naturally more delicate than Dirt-bike clutch. I still run the clutch as still thinking about changing to reklus or get a stock rotax bmw onm clutch just so it can wait for mine to give up completely. I bought bike second hand 6k miles and put risers on it and adjusted the freeplay but I believe now after 7k on the bike it will need a new clutch and longer cable as raisers and stock cable must be putting some pressure on plates even without obvious signs of slippage. I like reklus but the freeroll worries me a bit as we do too much technical rocky slick rides in Wales.
Still waiting for a video on how to wheelie the DCT. There has to be a trick to it.
also DTC problem is that on slippery road you cant stop rear wheel while with 0 throttle, it'll keep spinning until you block it and fall or just fall
Could you do a video on some adventure bike drills to practice?
he has done a lot .. check his channel
I am riding africa Twin DCT
To stop wheel spin alot, you can use hand break on left side while adding throttle.
I faced loads of situation like that and i could manage to get rid of it by using hand breake.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
I really like your vids. However would have been nice to see beefyer tires on the Honda. Most of us would have done that if we were planing on using as adventure bike. Keep up the good work!
What would your thoughts be on adding a Clake Left Hand Rear Brake/Clutch lever combination to a bike with the Rekluse auto clutch ??....solves control over the rolling back downhill from a stop problem and give you more precise control of the rear brake...stand rear brake pedal can also stay in place and be used if desired
Thanks Brett great review. BTW on your test Honda DCT, only the rear wheel was stock. I hope you have another video up with a proper shoes on both front and rear to give it another go to see if you appreciate any more.
I totally agree with you on need of an hydraulic break for the rear wheel - It would be useful.
I’ve had 2 incidents on my DCT where I was “Launched” when I fell in a deep rut and whiskey throttled the heck out of my throttle handle and was thrown clear of the bike. Besides the very technical (still trying to master it) I’m really enjoying all the benefits of my DCT.
Thanks for the feedback, Peter.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
I had a Rekluse clutch on my F800GS, best upgrade by far. I rode it like a normal clutch and just relied on it to avoid stalls. You are right, the F800 needs a hydraulic clutch. The factory one is just too heavy it kills your hands over long technical rides.
it just seems for me that no one engineer can design dual sport/adv motorcycle that have 1st gear that is low you van go slow walking speed like 2-3mph idle whit out using clutch and do comfy 80 mph at highway low engine rpm. SO WHAT CAN ENGINEER DO INSTEAD ? design automatic motorcycle gearbox that will burn that dual clutch in extended technical terrain because when clutch is fully engage bike is going 10-15 mph at idle engine speed
@@paska777 Actually, the KTM 1290 SuperAdventure was just like that. I could tractor through mud and sand at very slow speeds without stalling but still do 180KPH on the highway. Amazing bike!
You can use your left hand-brake when you stand in a uphill to go backward .
Great review and tips!! The 2018 and up seems to have better throttle response than earlier versions. I'm new to the DCT world, and still working though it in the tough stuff. That said, I'm generally a big fan. You're exactly right about using the brakes to 'load' the power- I'm thinking a lot more practice is needed, but it is a mindshift. You're also correct about the whisky throttle- I've caught myself twice already, and the AT has a lot of grunt when it gets rolling.
What are your thoughts on the traction control off-road?
Very interesting, thank you. I’ve had surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome, so my wrists are better than they were, but I’ve sometimes thought of putting a rekluse to my 1290SA, but looking at this i think I’ll just bear with the fatigue. It’s a pity the AT DCT had a knobby on the front but a street tire on the driven rear (which seems like an odd choice for that owner to make, IMO)
I am a fan of the auto clutch. You get to use it like a manual or auto
Ok, I don't understand why Honda doesn't add optional left/rear brake, that is like a no brainer. I am a big scooter user and I always loved to have the rear break on the left hand, I feel I have faster and preciser control with my hand then my feet.
Is it possible to make an adaptation?
The Africa twin got the handbrake at the position of clutch lever
So we can engage it when it stalls on steep hill
Thank you for the videos. As many people state in the comments, could you please shoot some more videos on comparing DCT / MT versions of Africa Twin, showing and discussing their cons and pros.
how does shifting work with the autoclutch? like an up and down quickshifter without autoblip? or just the same as a regular clutch?
Just like a regular clutch, either with the clutch lever or clutch less quick shifts
How did you make the magura hydraulic clutch work with the rekluse autoclutch? Rekluse it can't be done.
What’s the clutch looking lever on the left hand side of the AT?
I drive Africa twin. I see how you drive it abd feels like off road is much more aggressively easier and cooler in your hands then GS.. Feels like you are much more speedy and fervently on AT
Interesting and informative as always Bret; think I'll be keeping my manual transmission though :-) Re your velcro strip idea. I cut up a circular slice of bicycle inner-tube and slid it on my throttle and it stays there permanently; then when needed stretch it over the front brake lever. It's very handy in numerous circumstances when combined with leaving the bike in gear, when you want to lock both wheels, or you want to lock the front wheel only eg. rear wheel off the ground, tyre repair, chain adjustment etc. All the best. Cheers Wayne
But, you can grab the emergency parking brake on the left grip and hit the red kill switch with your right thumb on the DCT in whiskey throttle situations. I do know it's kinda far up, but bigger hand people can grab it.
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
Making it look easy as usual!!
Would you say that the Aprilia mana 850 (CVT) is better than the DCT? B/c the mana is automatic, has paddle shifters, but also has a foot shifter for manual mode. No clutch lever though
What if you get Thumb and Forefinger fatigue? 👊🏼
There's an app for that :)
MOTOTREK lol 👍🏻👍🏻
Your comments on the lack of traction on the DCT are interesting considering you have a slick on the AT and you have a knobby on the auto clutch. Even stranger you do not have a oem tire on the front of the AT you have a knobby. Curious what point your really trying to make by keeping a slick on the AT and changing out the front tire to a knobby but then have both the front and rear off-road tires on the BMW then at the end saying the AT didn't do well as well.
That's the best you can do? What about a 10yr old 80k bike against a modern 1.2k bike? Lowered 800 vs a bike with real ground clearance? An 800 that is sprung for the 150lb owner vs a bike sprung ideally for my weight.
When someone pays me to do these or offers tires and bikes then I will submit to your petty points that I already stated in the video.
Give me three AT's one DCT, one with the Autoclutch and one standard and two other testers like a new rider and an average rider we will do a proper comparison.
@@BretTkacs I don't care about those other points but since you brought them up they should also be considerd before you dump on the ability for the AT to make traction like you did at the end.
When the entire video is based on getting traction on in sticky conditions and you are comparing one transmission vs another at least do it with off road tires on the rear with both bikes plain and simple.
Please explain why there is a tkc 80 front on the AT and a stock tire on the rear who the hell rides those too tires together. The rear is a 90-10 the other is a 50-50. If that's the way the bikes were given to you as a reviewer should have said something or at least brought it up at the end when for your closing arguments for those that do not know just how inferior the stock rear tire is to the mitas on the BMW.
Mike - The two bikes we used were borrowed as-is on the day we shot the video. No time or resources to install matching tires unfortunately.
I think Honda missed an opportunity to put a rear brake lever for the left hand...then you can have your feet free to catch yourself or walk and not roll back
I agree! Like the Honda X-ADV!
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
Maybe a wee read up or having a look at one would help you discover the left hand lever and what its for ;)
Did you put the DCT in G-Mode for the sandy bits?
It was more technical than that so I when with TC and ABS off (of course ABS off is only the rear abs)
brettkacs.com/forums/topic/dct-riding-techniques/
QUESTION: what IS the best way to deliberately stall on a steep hill (e.g. if you need to walk the bike down for some reason)? Do you just quickly release the clutch lever? OR would you hit the kill switch?
lever
I do that even when i'm not on a steep hill ... :-))
Bret what tires were on the front of the AT and smaller beamer?
The AT had a Mita e10, the F8GS had a Mita e07
@@BretTkacs thought those looked like Mitas from the side. Run the E09 Rear for offroad and the E07 for 50/50 on my DR650 but havent run anything but the full knobie C17 up front.... thinking I will try the e07 up there soon. Thanks.
Awesome video, thank you. I may have missed you saying something about it, but what is the left hand lever on the AT?
Thanks! Some reason I thought the parking brake looked different. Must have been another type I’ve seen so wasn’t sure. Much appreciated.
Very nice video. I bought Africa twin DCT a month ago and I´m learning to ride it. This bike has a three-level traction control and a G button - to be honest, I´m a little bit confused about it. When (in what conditions) do you recommend to turn off traction control? Is it sufficient to use G button when riding on gravel, or it is better to reduce the degree of traction control? Thank you for patience with a beginner question.
Going to be very interesting to see how the 790 Adventure R does in these types of conditions. I hear it's not far from a motocrosser in agility.
I know you posted awhile ago, but I just got a KTM 790 R last week. One of the first things I did was head out with a riding buddy who has a KTM 1090R. We were both curious as to how the 790 matched up with his bike both on and off-road. The most profound response came from my buddy, he could not believe how light and agile the 790R is, and it definitely does tread further into the enduro/motocross space than any other twin cylinder adventure bike. If I had a complaint about the 790, the only one would be grunt in the 2k-3.5k rpm range. It is most definitely a weak point. No one ever talks about how slow you can "turtle it", but I like to relax in the woods and mosey along sometimes. Ain't happening on the 790, it wants you to win. lol
@@saladdays180s9 put it in rain mode throttle = no win :P
I never thought about the lack of braking effect rolling backward with a DCT. What brake does that parking brake activate?
The parking brake activates a mechanical caliper at the back wheel.