Totally agree with Blaine's take at 2:46:02 about Rob Watts and the stupid marbles on Chord products. I have a Mojo 2 and I love the sound but hate the interface and lack of volume knob - which is why I mainly use it as a dac for other amps with knobs. Which I think Rob himself would disapprove of because it puts more components in the signal path.
I tried the raal Immanis in Munich on a 15k+ Amp and to me it sounded okay. I really like the asthetic/build of the headphone. Not more, not less. But then i moved on and tried the ZMF Caldera and Meze Empyrean II and that was way more to my preference.
As a creature of TH-cam only, I was caught unawares by the existence of Immanis and the tribal discourse surrounding it on other platforms . After careful reflection I can only conclude it it would have been better to have named this headphone Mammalius instead
It would certainly be fun to speak to all of you, but I'd agree in terms of audio as a science I may not be able to add as much - my expertise is in industrial design, where I do think to Blaine's colourfully illustrated point, there is a lot to be done when it comes to high end audio. The difficulty is always marrying that with the science, which is where communication in this field tends to fall apart in absolutism, as was mentioned regarding ASR. Conversations often devolve into browbeating rather than finding a solution.
In terms of people to debate, I suppose that smaller headphone companies' guys would get a net benefit from the exposure so they would be more likely to participate. The people that come to mind would be the guys from ETA, Auribus, or Aurorus. I know that Aurorus has clear opposition to planar drivers, for instance. And ETA guys have their reasons for doing on-ears and also stuff on pad design.
I do think from the other hobbies I’ve had, audio is definitely the worst - to the point where even tho it’s my main hobby, I avoid engaging in the community most of the time at this point. Others have issues, but it’s not nearly as bad. I think a lot of it stems from the heavy overlap between objective science and subjective experience/aesthetics within the hobby. Edit: Those poor poor HD800... But hey, good to know they can take it.
Finally. But it’s worse than you think. As we grow up, the neural network in our brain develops preferences and these define what is better or worse. Sure, headphones can be broken by most accounts, but beyond this, personal preferences, which are not deliberate, rule the day.
More than likely he’s never heard Mad Economist’s takes on anything else and just got butt hurt when some trash headphones he bought got called out for being trash. Plenty of people call my favourite IEMs, the Mest MK2, mid, overpriced, etc, me then lashing out at those people would be beyond petty and a major disservice to my upbringing. Inanimate objects regardless of their cost don’t deserve more respect than actual human fucking beings and anyone who acts this way should get a fucking grip on reality.
Searches Head-Fi Immanis thread for "auxnuke": No results found. Hmmm. It's ok to disagree with me, we all have opinions. It's silly to spread lies that others can publicly fact check.
Oh and another way Oluv has always been based AF is that from the very beginning he provided only _comparative_ sound demos between devices from the same category, not stand-alone demos like Zeos is clowning around with. Knowing full well that the final response would vary too much with people's headphones (and ears), he understood early on that the primary way he could make YT sound demos useful would be to have them be delta sound demos vs. other well-known models. And then he went full Hero of the People and made a dedicated website where he listed all the demos together and allowed you to A/B between any 2 Bluetooth speakers he had ever recorded, using several music tracks of different genres. That site was pure gold, too bad he had to take it down after a while due to maintenance costs vs. channel income.
So you CAN use measurements to disqualify certain products. It's not a matter of "anything goes" here, just that information above 3khz is more variable across humans than people realize, and this explains many situations where one person has a very positive experience with something while another person has a very negative one. That's also not to say that errors in judgment, confirmation bias, or various other factors aren't influencing people's impressions, that's almost guaranteed to be the case unless someone is testing in blind or controlled conditions. Just that are also genuine differences in terms of how these products are perceived.
@@ResolveReviews There’s a matter of nuance here, though. I have seen 3 dB dips and peaks be highlighted as flaws, when they are nearly impossible to perceive in full spectrum audio (i.e. music content). I have also seen eerily similar FR curves be used as justification for praise or reprimand, for no other reason. In that regard, Harman Research has become The Church of Harman, where the words of its High Priests are more important than the text of the research. Finally, when FR is really far from neutral, I think it’s obvious to everyone, and acceptable to many quite often (I am listening to AirPods Pro 2 right now and I know they are far from neutral, but they are for my current listening conditions).
@@el_arte they actually aren't far from neutral at all. IEM research has progressed with the use of the 5128 and its more accurate acoustic impedance. APP2 has emerged one of the most 'neutral' TWS, especially if you look at some of the most recent work from Dr. Olive when it comes to listener preferences with IEMs. With regards to your other points, a 3dB deviation shouldn't be used to disqualify a product, especially in narrow bands. If we've done that, that is erroneous. It could be used to say "there's a feature here that I don't like", but that's specific to the individual listener. Moreover, a wideband deviation of 3dB is likely to be far more perceptually relevant for more people, and therefore would be worth calling attention to. And it also likely depends on where it is.
@@ResolveReviewsA 3 db peak or dip is the reason people like listener or crinacle derank products into dumpster tier. Why not review hd1000 unv or hd800 subjective qualities instead of obsessing over small barely significant FR features variable from person to person, especially when eq is readily available. Subjective qualities are not objective, but they at least provide a frame of reference why I should be paying X amount of money for heku or susvara over sundara. The fr argument can go both vays: you're the reason why I learned eq and use it on stuff like Audeze lcdi4 - the best iem with lcd4 driver inside to get both great subjectives without sacrificing FR, which would be poor without EQ (see crinacle iem ranking list)
I always thought Oluv was one of those who define Good Response You Can Recommend to Everyone by how it sounds to them personally, at least when he started getting into headphones, maybe later he nuanced that more appropriately. But he is based AF for wanting tunings to be referenced to frontal-speakers-in-a-room, that is the best reference to define neutrality from, the most desirable musical experience to most people today. Even the Harman research for the headphone target curve started from stereo speakers that measure flat in an anechoic chamber and are then used in a treated listening room (AFAIK from reading about it on InnerFidelity around 2016-17, there was an article "An Acoustic Basis for the Harman Listener Target Curve" that's only on the Archive sites now).
@@En_Joshi-Godrez Stop talking to the mirror and you might stop seeing trolls everywhere. He (wrongly) references things to what sounds good to him + he (rightly) proposes the acoustic basis for headphone targets should be frontal-speakers FR = he can produce quite population-unsatisfactory results. All you had to do was put both of the things I said together, seems it was too much to ask from you today.
Totally agree with Blaine's take at 2:46:02 about Rob Watts and the stupid marbles on Chord products. I have a Mojo 2 and I love the sound but hate the interface and lack of volume knob - which is why I mainly use it as a dac for other amps with knobs. Which I think Rob himself would disapprove of because it puts more components in the signal path.
I tried the raal Immanis in Munich on a 15k+ Amp and to me it sounded okay. I really like the asthetic/build of the headphone. Not more, not less. But then i moved on and tried the ZMF Caldera and Meze Empyrean II and that was way more to my preference.
As a creature of TH-cam only, I was caught unawares by the existence of Immanis and the tribal discourse surrounding it on other platforms . After careful reflection I can only conclude it it would have been better to have named this headphone Mammalius instead
It would certainly be fun to speak to all of you, but I'd agree in terms of audio as a science I may not be able to add as much - my expertise is in industrial design, where I do think to Blaine's colourfully illustrated point, there is a lot to be done when it comes to high end audio. The difficulty is always marrying that with the science, which is where communication in this field tends to fall apart in absolutism, as was mentioned regarding ASR. Conversations often devolve into browbeating rather than finding a solution.
In terms of people to debate, I suppose that smaller headphone companies' guys would get a net benefit from the exposure so they would be more likely to participate. The people that come to mind would be the guys from ETA, Auribus, or Aurorus. I know that Aurorus has clear opposition to planar drivers, for instance. And ETA guys have their reasons for doing on-ears and also stuff on pad design.
I do think from the other hobbies I’ve had, audio is definitely the worst - to the point where even tho it’s my main hobby, I avoid engaging in the community most of the time at this point.
Others have issues, but it’s not nearly as bad.
I think a lot of it stems from the heavy overlap between objective science and subjective experience/aesthetics within the hobby.
Edit: Those poor poor HD800... But hey, good to know they can take it.
It's not in the same universe as car enthusiast.
Which Belleoy bags are you referring to?
Ok. GS why did you have 3 Ferrum Oors?
Do Bluetooth headphones emit a lot of emf
I am listening to this episode with DT 990’s.
any bleeding of the ears?!
@@h-dawg6462 what? I can’t hear you.
@@AirBudProMax 😁
CHHHHHHH CHHHHHHH CHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Finally. But it’s worse than you think. As we grow up, the neural network in our brain develops preferences and these define what is better or worse. Sure, headphones can be broken by most accounts, but beyond this, personal preferences, which are not deliberate, rule the day.
Which is based on impulsive tendencies.
The user anxnuke is a salty headfi user. You can see their commments on the immanis thread. This is why they only have one comment here.
More than likely he’s never heard Mad Economist’s takes on anything else and just got butt hurt when some trash headphones he bought got called out for being trash.
Plenty of people call my favourite IEMs, the Mest MK2, mid, overpriced, etc, me then lashing out at those people would be beyond petty and a major disservice to my upbringing. Inanimate objects regardless of their cost don’t deserve more respect than actual human fucking beings and anyone who acts this way should get a fucking grip on reality.
Searches Head-Fi Immanis thread for "auxnuke": No results found. Hmmm. It's ok to disagree with me, we all have opinions. It's silly to spread lies that others can publicly fact check.
If they threw a parade for dt990s it would be a mile line march of crashes and cymbals.
Guys for some reason the livestream comments aren't visible on YT like they normally are.
It's because I had to remove the garbled audio from the first few minutes. For whatever reason when you cut a section TH-cam also can't handle chat.
@TheHEADPHONEShow fair enough, hope the tech gods smile on you for future streams!
1:27:00 who doesn't like Belle Delphine except for Blaine
Oh and another way Oluv has always been based AF is that from the very beginning he provided only _comparative_ sound demos between devices from the same category, not stand-alone demos like Zeos is clowning around with. Knowing full well that the final response would vary too much with people's headphones (and ears), he understood early on that the primary way he could make YT sound demos useful would be to have them be delta sound demos vs. other well-known models.
And then he went full Hero of the People and made a dedicated website where he listed all the demos together and allowed you to A/B between any 2 Bluetooth speakers he had ever recorded, using several music tracks of different genres. That site was pure gold, too bad he had to take it down after a while due to maintenance costs vs. channel income.
Also, you guys have to a large extent created this problem by using measurements to single-handedly dismiss certain models and recommend others.
So you CAN use measurements to disqualify certain products. It's not a matter of "anything goes" here, just that information above 3khz is more variable across humans than people realize, and this explains many situations where one person has a very positive experience with something while another person has a very negative one. That's also not to say that errors in judgment, confirmation bias, or various other factors aren't influencing people's impressions, that's almost guaranteed to be the case unless someone is testing in blind or controlled conditions. Just that are also genuine differences in terms of how these products are perceived.
@@ResolveReviews There’s a matter of nuance here, though. I have seen 3 dB dips and peaks be highlighted as flaws, when they are nearly impossible to perceive in full spectrum audio (i.e. music content). I have also seen eerily similar FR curves be used as justification for praise or reprimand, for no other reason. In that regard, Harman Research has become The Church of Harman, where the words of its High Priests are more important than the text of the research. Finally, when FR is really far from neutral, I think it’s obvious to everyone, and acceptable to many quite often (I am listening to AirPods Pro 2 right now and I know they are far from neutral, but they are for my current listening conditions).
@@el_arte they actually aren't far from neutral at all. IEM research has progressed with the use of the 5128 and its more accurate acoustic impedance. APP2 has emerged one of the most 'neutral' TWS, especially if you look at some of the most recent work from Dr. Olive when it comes to listener preferences with IEMs. With regards to your other points, a 3dB deviation shouldn't be used to disqualify a product, especially in narrow bands. If we've done that, that is erroneous. It could be used to say "there's a feature here that I don't like", but that's specific to the individual listener. Moreover, a wideband deviation of 3dB is likely to be far more perceptually relevant for more people, and therefore would be worth calling attention to. And it also likely depends on where it is.
@@ResolveReviewsA 3 db peak or dip is the reason people like listener or crinacle derank products into dumpster tier. Why not review hd1000 unv or hd800 subjective qualities instead of obsessing over small barely significant FR features variable from person to person, especially when eq is readily available. Subjective qualities are not objective, but they at least provide a frame of reference why I should be paying X amount of money for heku or susvara over sundara. The fr argument can go both vays: you're the reason why I learned eq and use it on stuff like Audeze lcdi4 - the best iem with lcd4 driver inside to get both great subjectives without sacrificing FR, which would be poor without EQ (see crinacle iem ranking list)
Breaking DMS
So, head?
I always thought Oluv was one of those who define Good Response You Can Recommend to Everyone by how it sounds to them personally, at least when he started getting into headphones, maybe later he nuanced that more appropriately.
But he is based AF for wanting tunings to be referenced to frontal-speakers-in-a-room, that is the best reference to define neutrality from, the most desirable musical experience to most people today. Even the Harman research for the headphone target curve started from stereo speakers that measure flat in an anechoic chamber and are then used in a treated listening room (AFAIK from reading about it on InnerFidelity around 2016-17, there was an article "An Acoustic Basis for the Harman Listener Target Curve" that's only on the Archive sites now).
@@d0nj03 Yes, mega based. That's why the Grell OAE1 was a smash hit! Lmao
@@d0nj03 what you wrote is a troll comment whether you meant it or not.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez Stop talking to the mirror and you might stop seeing trolls everywhere.
He (wrongly) references things to what sounds good to him + he (rightly) proposes the acoustic basis for headphone targets should be frontal-speakers FR = he can produce quite population-unsatisfactory results. All you had to do was put both of the things I said together, seems it was too much to ask from you today.