Don’t forget to check out my video on FAKE Silver Eagles ➡️ th-cam.com/video/kT8zAmPGI5I/w-d-xo.html in case anyone is wondering about the gold coins in this video: The person who brought in the fake gold coins let us film the video and then took them when he left. I have no idea where he got the coins from he said that he bought them private party and thought he could still get his money back. seems a little suspicious to me but who knows…
I used to work with a guy who would buy silver coins from eBay. I asked him if he ever got any of them certified and he said no. I suggested some of them might be fake and this started him worrying. So, he sent in his most valuable coins for certification. Three of the ten coins he sent in were fake. He took the rest of his coins to a coin shop to get them tested and they found more fake coins. He quit buying from eBay and started buying only from the coin shop.
My dad bought a grip of $20 gold coins from a local shop, One time I was looking at a few and found a re-slabbed $20 PCGS MS64, it was a MS60 even to me who knows very little. Shop made good on it.
If a dealer told me my coin was fake and tried to confiscate it there would be trouble. It would be to easy for a crooked dealer to say that about a good coin and keep it.
Thats why offering to call the police would be handy. Counterfeiting US currency is a felony. A dealer NOT calling the police is then an accessory to a felony. (I think)
So the dealer has to weigh either screwing the community by keeping his mouth shut, which seems to be occurring in the video, or calling the police anyway and then potentially getting video of you in the store and video of your car in the lot. Then when they find you, you having to convince them that you weren't intentionally trying to defraud that dealer. If I were the investigator, I would also take your picture to other dealers to find out if they e had any run ins with you. Or, just stay and cooperate and maybe even get help locating the person who sold you the bad coins.
Confiscation seems a bit weird and not necessarily lawful. I'm not a coinshop owner, so maybe my ideas aren't the beat to go by, but at that point I'd offer a drill press test, or a call to authorities. I don't think I'd want to let an un-drilled counterfeit leave the shop, but I think taking possession of fake bullion is solely the right of the state.
@@phlodel certainly true on the confiscate part, as for the defacing, the drill test is standard for detecting fakes, and it's better than having you name on a police report for trying to sell counterfeit bullion. I grew up in the Shore Points, lot of cash business there. Everybody gets stuck with a fake $20 bill in their life there. So I'm used to the idea on having to take an L over a counterfeit. Better than getting choked by a cop.
Why not confiscate and then call the police .. no different than a guy walking into your store with a phoney bill .. you look at it and tell him it's fake and give it back ???
my initial thoughts about the holders and certified coins... ironically, a sealed holder prevents you from touching and physically evaluating the coin, which might actually make it more difficult to identify fakes
I'm a 30 plus years law enforcement officer and I have worked at different times with the Secret Service on a few cases and a shop or merchant can confiscate fake currency but not fake coins. Fakes are only illegal if someone tries to pass them off as real.
Buying one fake gold coin is absolutely devastating for a new collector or stacker, but it can usually be avoided easily if you exercise some patience and common sense.
I came across a fake American Eagle coin this week at my local flea market. I explained how to test the coin with a magnet to one of the cashiers who was very surprised but I’m sure the manager knew it was fake. He saw me looking at it in the case and didn’t bother to come over to let me see it.
When you talk about fake gold coins, are they real tender that's just electroplated with gold? If so can you still use them as a regular coin? I have a friend whos brother passed away & left him with thousands of "collectable" coins. He has no clue what is real, or what is fake, what do you suggest he should do to find that out?
There is no available AU coins in our America's economy due to the dye coins whatever it look like a real to us, but the silver is only the answers that's it.
If the coins are in the holders (and they're not fake) there is no way to physically verify the coin without destroying the holder. So people are stuck having to consider the holders now as well.
Anyone buying PM's need to invest in a sigma metalytics, a coin pinger and a balance tool for gold oz coins and a pocket balance. The latter three can be carried in a pocket, but are not bullet proof. All of theses tools together get you to a very high confidence level. As long as you have a phone, you should scan and compare stabbed coins as an extra measure.
At least make a coin slide, and a pocket pinger along with the Sunshine lens. Much of the risk is gone when buying from a reputable dealer. It still happens though.
I agree, and for now I have one scan program on this phone. The whole thing cam to a head as I was standing chatting with old and new friends at the Organic Market here in Mexico. A local guy came up to me and asked if I wanted to buy a coin. I poked at it, thought OK, 1916, you have my attention. I assumed silver dollar, and about 90% silver, so I quickly offered 200 pesos, or about 9 bucks. The guy said “Give me 400.” I said “No” and turned to walk away. He said “OK” and I took the ‘risk.’ The scan said 16 dollars to 4800 or so. Upon digging at the NGC site (and taking a closer look to see it was NOT a dollar) I discovered it was a Barber Half, and the mint was SF. The price appears to be 570 or more. I will send it to NGC to get it authenticated.
I have run all my NGC graded coins through their site, but sort of feel I need to take a second look at everything I have. Should there always be a picture? I'm pretty sure I have some that were registered but there was no photo. I cant say that all my earliest purchases were from legitimate shops or dealers. And I did get some fake Silver Eagles, but I was highly suspect at the time of purchase, but wanted to get one in my hand to test myself. They were bad knock offs. The diameter and thickness were noticeably off when placed on a true Eagle. The font was easily spotted as different as well as sloppy. They did pass magnet test and weight, but failed ping test. They came sealed in round capsules. like glue sealed.
The proliferation of ever increasing quality fake silver and gold coins is a real concern. I attend estate auctions and have to bring along my Sigma to test every coin, as so many are turning up now. Even if an NGC or PCGS holder looks legitimate I have to test the coin, as some fakes are sealed with a genuine hologram.
I can visualize the parking lot beggars trying pawn off fake coins for money. Coin shops might consider taking pics of the fake coins and emailing the pics to other vendors.
@@SilverDragons47 last year I was approached by a family at night asking for gas. Even though I didn't give them money they wanted to give me a men's gold ring, which likely is fake. They said they couldn't wait till the banks opened the next morning. That was the first time I've experienced this type of con.
Wonderful. The whole idea behind certification was to protect the hobby and help assure coins were genuine and identified correctly. Now we’ve got criminals passing off counterfeit certified coins!!!
I found jars of coins at an old farm. I've sold only a few over the years to a private collector that I trust. Cash only. There were gold and silver coins all pre 1930. I'm glad i just sat on them for my later years, I knew prices would go this high. I need not be in a hurry. Don't worry it was the family farm.
I appreciate your content here. The videos have helped me to be a more educated buyer. Fortunately most of the coins I have purchased are common not always silver or gold. I started with collecting WW l & WW ll coins not pristine just good details. Watching this channel and couple others for a little while now have helped me to keep from making spontaneous buys. Thanks for good content and keeping details simple enough for beginners like me.
Love the video. But one question. I had an MS-70 silver eagle and reluctantly I had to take it to the coins shop to sell and they would only buy it for market value of the silver and not as a certified MS-70. They said it was because they certify lots of these. I was pissed at their reason. What do you think?
Can you do a video on shopping channel silver coins? They had 300 yr old coins that looked like they were casted yesterday. They wanted $2000 a piece. Probably just 1 ounce of silver value
Another tip is to download a free QR reader and scan the barcode. Many of these fake labels are too poor to scan, or return info that doesn't match the cert and grade (counterfeiters are not just sleazy, they're lazy). One criticism - you emphasize "buy the coin, not the holder", but say nothing about how to identify that the coin is fake. Comparing the one with the NGC images was a perfect opportunity to note that the fake coin is clearly not the same coin NGC photographed, but all you focused on was that the slab style is wrong.
That's why I don't like slabbed coins. Coins should be able to be touched. But I still think platinum is the way to go, due to the difficulty of counterfeting it.
I have been wanting to buy a $20 double eagle gold coin, and have seen a bunch online on Ebay and websites, but can not trust if its real and authentic. Have seen way too many counterfeits out there.
Study your coins folks, dont just buy and stack. Inspect them, double check them, get familiar with the fonts used. I can immediately see the wrong font on the 2023 ASE. Also, the 2 sunrays touch Liberty's dress/flag but on the newer type 2 reverse coins, the sunrays on the obverse only have 1 ray that touches the flag...small things like that should alert you about the coin you are inspecting.
Not just coins. Anything collectible. I almost bought a replica antique phone for reasonable authentic price. Always Google when in an antique/vintage store. 😅
QUESTION // NEW SILVER EAGLE EDGE MISSING NOTCH, IS IT ALWAYS IN THE SAME SPOT OR DOES IT VARY DEPENDING ON THE MANUFACTURING MINT? I HAVE 2022 NEW DESIGN AND THE NOTCH IS BOTTOM LEFT NEAR THE SUN AND 2023 NEW DESIGN BUT THE NOTCH IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE HALF WAY UP AROUND THE MID SECTION?
There was an ebay seller with a slabbed Kruger Pond (not Krugerrand, the Victorian Era predecessor) which was in an NGC holder complete with all the latest holographic stuff and nonsense. The coin was a fake as could be seen from information readily available on line. Certain identifying marks present on all these particular fakes which started to show up some years ago. Initially I thought this was a question of the grading company being taken in, in which case what is the point of the grading in the first place. But now I wonder if it was just a fake coin in a fake slab.
this used to happen to us more frequently than you would think here in BC Canada with gold coins and bars, we used to have a pretty tight community here and would call at least 3 other shops and warn them and they would call three etc. I worked pretty well. Our friends in a neighbouring city were robbed, they called us in am and gave us a list and an hour later the thieves came in and tried to sell to us, we called rcmp and locked the door and they were arrested.
This is how i buy gold and silver coins: 1) I do my due diligence 2) "When in doubt i throw it out" and do not buy it. I had to let go some wonderful gold coins in the past because something was seriously off about it. ( will tell you down below what i got confronted with) 3) with these "grading firms" there are bound to get fakes in. I mean people make certificates of anything to make a quick buck, dollar, yuan, euro or pound. As such, i look at what the official grades actually look like and what to pay attention to ( no matter if you are at a flea market, coin shop, coin convention or numismatic meeting, though numismatic meetings have no counterfeits unless some member brings one with him/her to have the team look at it). I have a small booklet with me where i have written down the things to look out for. Now for some of my experiences. I was in a coinshop near Frankfurt. There were some "graded coins" there just like those featured in your video. However when i ran over a mini magnet the "gold coin" stuck to the plastic. I wisely backed out of that shop. When i was visiting a NY jewellery longtime friend ( known each other since kindergarten and are like brothers from another mother). He bought a gold bar in good faith from a dealer that came recommended. Everything checked out, even the weight was nearly almost perfect. Turned out they holed out the gold bar, filled it with tungsten and then resealed it. ALL the security marks were present. Oh that "recommended dealer" was in legal hot water. My friend now uses highly technical equipment to check the bars validity and does not go on "good faith" anymore. He took a good financial hit with that bogus bar. What i do not agree with is coinshops confiscating supposed "counterfeits". it is a "guilty until proven innocent" road and i am not a fan of that. Like many down below commented: " a less reputable coin shop can confiscate real deal gold coins and claim that "they fake bro". Just say "no we do not buy those because we suspect they are fake" and then explain why you think they are fake. Just a heads up, a numismatic member of our group, been in the business of coin collecting and is one of the most careful and cautious buyers i have ever met, got bamboozled with these grades as well. With him everything was "authentic". Just like with this, the number and barcode matched, the holographic mark was there ( the actual one) and there was a special seal that, so far he could see was not broken. Still it was a fake coin. Thanks for putting these videos out. Novices that want to collect coins as well as more experienced people need these kinds of videos to know what to look out for.
You can get silver coins that are authentic from ebay BUT usually from dealers selling mint sets or a silver coin in the original government packaging and looks very much untampered. I generally do not get bullion coins (maybe once a year) and avoid anything that has substantial numismatic worth. For those I go to a brick and mortar dealer to see the object in person. A reputable dealer will hold a coin for your if you want to double check the dealer's track record and the coin. If a dealer is pressuring to buy something immediately that to me is a red flag to run far away!
Being Canadian, I'm happy to stick with our Maples for smaller denomination stacking. They must be too difficult/costly to fake because I haven't heard of one yet...
How do you know as a collector that you dont have fake maple leafs.. You had to trust someone to buy it... even the Perth Mint in Australia has sold underweight gold coins..
The wisdom from the vids on counterfeits is priceless. Scary stuff and makes you want to spend the extra money to ensure you are getting the real deal from legitimate dealers.
I thought people collected counterfeit currency as long as it was stamped counterfeit. But I guess it is illegal. I thought I had seen some U.S. counterfeit notes for sale at a coin shop a couple decades ago in L.A., but can't remember. Collecting fake money would be an interesting area of collection.
You can order any of these fakes from a Chinese super store. Fake $100's as well as all of these fake coins, and even fake Credit Suisse gold bars. They're a couple bucks. The better fakes are a bit tougher to find and cost a little more, but the crooks trying to pass these are NOT losing money. We're talking a few bucks for a couple grand.
The law states possession with intent. Meaning mearly possessing it isn't a crime on it's own, like using them as decoy, if you are trying to spend it or sell it, knowing it was fake, you would be committing a crime. It's a hard crime to prosecute.
"Just don't take it to another dealer and hope they won't catch it, that's bad etiquette." Is that man really that naive? They're criminals, they don't give af.
Harry is a nice guy and just putting his best foot forward here. After a stout brandy snort, I'm sure he'd gladly tell you he'd kneecap any MFer with a bat trying to pass fakes in his store.
West Germany, 1971. My dad and I (I was 15) were in a junk store, and saw a $5 US gold coin. They only wanted $30 for it. HELL YES!!! I grabbed it, immediately. The mistake the owner made? He brought out a SECOND $5 gold coin, identical year and mint mark. Umm....NO.
Wow. That’s disturbing. A few years ago I took some uncirculated coins out of a 20th century type set holder to have appraised at Heritage auctions in Dallas. I started collecting coins in 1964 with my late father, long before the days of coin grading services and the coin specimens in the set were in pristine condition with no toning. Some would have graded MS 65+ easily. To my shock, two of the cocky young appraisers said they had been brushed. Nonsense. I knew they hadn’t and later sold them online to savvy collectors for hundreds of dollars. It would have cost me quite a bit of money to have sent them to PCGS or ANACS to be individually graded and slabbed and I probably would have been able to sell some for thousands instead of hundreds but I needed money at the time and didn’t want to go through the expense. Be aware of coin graders who profess to have experience but don’t.
And you are...? So, you took the coins to Heritage...a world class auctioneer...and the PROFESSIONALS told you the coins had been "brushed" (I guess you mean "whizzed")? And you...a non-professional...think they were wrong, just because you "bought the coins a long time ago"? How do you know they hadn't been "brushed", whatever that means? Then, you refused to get them professionally graded, because you "needed the money"? And how do you know the collectors you sold to online were "savvy"? Did you know them personally? Did you really mean "suckers"? I mean, your whole comment here seems to be precisely the situation you warn against in your last line.
Can the "Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier" work on coins that are encapsulated / sealed in holders? Just like watches..., if you have high enough value ex.(2023 American Eagle 1 oz. Gold), some ppl/companies would invest heavy in a quality fakes.
Was nice meeting you sir. Stage left unkempt nusmatist there for this show. Morgans and Washingtons out cause of me. Lol. Figure since I recognized you, I'd give my online persona to ya.
Having collected coins for 30 years, since I was 8, I've come to learn that unless you're buying and selling true rarities, coin collecting is nothing more than an expensive hobby and not an investment. I do have a few coins that have appreciated in value over 20 years, but not wildly so. If I had invested that same money in the stock market, I'd have far more money. Heck - I had fun while it lasted and do, from time to time, like to look at the few coins I've kept. As for everything else I owned, I sold it all and dumped the proceeds into my Roth IRA - which has grown significantly more in the past 5 years than all my coins combined over the past 30.
I have those same slabs. I buy them from china for $1 each and make my own labels. The easiest tell is the label, and the finger slots to open the slab. I like to use the slabs to slab my own coins. They do seem very similar to NGC slabs, and thats why I like them. Sometimes they put fake coins in and glue them, those are ones really gotta watch for can't weigh the coin. Also the holo sticker on the back, china sells them in books cheap. So the sticker means nothing unless you have one to compare with.
Thank you so much for this video. I always thought all NGC graded coins were trustworthy. It’s so shocking that there are so many fake gold and silver coins mixed in.
I purchased a 2023 1oz silver Britannia off of eBay for $32 dollars free shipping. It's authentic. What major bullion dealer can I go to to find the same coin for the same price? I've bought from JM Bullion, Hero, MCM, etc... and 1 coin has cost me $38-$39 dollars with shipping cost. Not everyone can afford to buy bulk. 1 coin at a time is all that some folks can afford. If I shouldn't go to eBay, where can I go to get a $100 bucks or less worth of silver for an affordable price with free shipping?
I bought a silver eagle that I was almost sure was fake. I took it to the dealer I buy silver from. The sales lady told me it was fake without even touching it. The owner told me it is a crime to possess counterfeit coins. He said get it marked with the word copy to be legal. I had an engraving store add Copy so I could keep it. When I reported the issue to Etsy they refunded my purchase price.
there is one story out there where a shop owner bought gold coins from a local dealer for years only to find out after he retired that all of his retiremen money in coins were fake...
Got to say I've been having a blast watching this channel just now. (The Harry's one's so far). I have no want to collect coins or w/e, but it's really interesting content, glad you shared.
That’s crazy! I collect sports cards and they do the same thing with PSA slabs even getting a number that shows the correct card. PSA even gets fooled sometimes and grades fakes as authentic cards or cards with a signature of the player. Difficult to trust anyone with all of the tech out there to do these things
What you do is go to Manhattan on a Friday afternoon. Put the coins in a envelope along with paper documentation of their worth. Find sucker and hand them the envelope in your best drunk impression voice and say "I just found these on the street. Are they worth anything? I'll sell them to you if you give me a reasonable price. I don't have my glasses and I need to get something to eat." Wait for an offer and if it's enough, take it and disappear before the buyer notices that some of the coins have 'replica' imprinted on them in small print.......
One simple way is through experience. Old gold coins have a certain luster, or cartwheel effect, & color that cannot be faked. An 1800's gold coin does not look very bright yellow. Using your eyes on legit coins will give you a good clue as to what looks "right". Experience is what you need badly, right before you get some.
Im curious if you know the exact weight of an authentic holder. I'd guess there is a fairly large discrepancy between a real gold coin in an authentic holder vs a fake in a fake. I understand this is NOT how anyone should try and determine authenticity. They could make a heavier fake holder to compensate for a lighter coin. However, I can't help but be extremely curious.
Clear something up for me here. Are you saying the gold itself is fake or just the certifications fake? Any gold buyer can test the metal, right? Even if the coins are not actually certified, the gold has scrap value, right?
Yeah but you haven't replied to my question which you brought up, when did the Ridge Security mark start?, what year coins are these marks on? Are they on older coins also or just these new ones.
Temu sells a lot of such "coins", ... although they state that they are "gold colored", or "silver colored", or something to that effect. Not sure why they produce these things, and then "market" them.
What does the shop do when a customer comes in with fakes? Buy them to get them out of circulation and discard them the appropriate way I assume? Just curious. Cheers!
The confiscation issue is a problem. On the one hand these are still legal tender and should be taken out of circulation as quickly as possible, but on the other it would be easy for an unscrupulous dealer to say 'aww, this gold is fake' and confiscate a genuine coin. I think informing a customer that they're fake and letting them take the coins back is the best bet. What the customer chooses to do with them is then on them.
I received some half dollars. Mixed in were fake Walkers. They were common date coins which is crazy. I told the seller, and i was refunded the full amount. Third time buying on Etsy. Not again.
This is why people are turned off from numismatics. Bad experiences from unscrupulous online sellers and in person sales whether they are private, a dealer or a wholesaler.
Don’t forget to check out my video on FAKE Silver Eagles ➡️ th-cam.com/video/kT8zAmPGI5I/w-d-xo.html
in case anyone is wondering about the gold coins in this video: The person who brought in the fake gold coins let us film the video and then took them when he left. I have no idea where he got the coins from he said that he bought them private party and thought he could still get his money back. seems a little suspicious to me but who knows…
yeah, why involve the police when it was only in the thousands of dollars.
If all these gold and silver coins are so easily faked and hard to determine they’re fake, I’m not sure what the value is to them.
Did they test it to see if it was at least Gold plated or was it completely fake like brass or copper mix?
Thank you so much. You are an indispensable numismatic resource.
Why not photograph them?
I used to work with a guy who would buy silver coins from eBay. I asked him if he ever got any of them certified and he said no. I suggested some of them might be fake and this started him worrying. So, he sent in his most valuable coins for certification. Three of the ten coins he sent in were fake. He took the rest of his coins to a coin shop to get them tested and they found more fake coins. He quit buying from eBay and started buying only from the coin shop.
I only buy from vendors like APMEX or JM Bullion.
@@jimmylieb5225I only buy APMEX I don’t care if it’s pricy. I trust them more than anyone.
@@jimmylieb5225 i'd be squeamish about some coin shops. they might not even be nefarious, but it could just be bad staff.
There are very legit coin & bullion dealers on eBay. Just don’t buy from some random person.
My dad bought a grip of $20 gold coins from a local shop, One time I was looking at a few and found a re-slabbed $20 PCGS MS64, it was a MS60 even to me who knows very little. Shop made good on it.
If a dealer told me my coin was fake and tried to confiscate it there would be trouble. It would be to easy for a crooked dealer to say that about a good coin and keep it.
Thats why offering to call the police would be handy. Counterfeiting US currency is a felony.
A dealer NOT calling the police is then an accessory to a felony. (I think)
yeah I could really see it either way but having the police there would be handy I imagine 🔥🐉
Exactly. That wouldn't happen. Try to keep my coins and I'd be the one calling the police.
So the dealer has to weigh either screwing the community by keeping his mouth shut, which seems to be occurring in the video, or calling the police anyway and then potentially getting video of you in the store and video of your car in the lot. Then when they find you, you having to convince them that you weren't intentionally trying to defraud that dealer. If I were the investigator, I would also take your picture to other dealers to find out if they e had any run ins with you. Or, just stay and cooperate and maybe even get help locating the person who sold you the bad coins.
Break the holder and screw it
Confiscation seems a bit weird and not necessarily lawful. I'm not a coinshop owner, so maybe my ideas aren't the beat to go by, but at that point I'd offer a drill press test, or a call to authorities. I don't think I'd want to let an un-drilled counterfeit leave the shop, but I think taking possession of fake bullion is solely the right of the state.
If it was my coin, I'm keeping it. I'M pretty sure the coin shop owner has no legal right to confiscate or deface anything.
@@phlodel certainly true on the confiscate part, as for the defacing, the drill test is standard for detecting fakes, and it's better than having you name on a police report for trying to sell counterfeit bullion.
I grew up in the Shore Points, lot of cash business there. Everybody gets stuck with a fake $20 bill in their life there. So I'm used to the idea on having to take an L over a counterfeit. Better than getting choked by a cop.
@@tgraymkand drilling a hole does not devalue the gold at market value. Collectible wise yes.
@SanityTV_Last_Sane_Man_Alive They can't be fake. Are you serious 🤣 yes they can have you, not heard of China.
Why not confiscate and then call the police .. no different than a guy walking into your store with a phoney bill .. you look at it and tell him it's fake and give it back ???
my initial thoughts about the holders and certified coins... ironically, a sealed holder prevents you from touching and physically evaluating the coin, which might actually make it more difficult to identify fakes
Wished you would have given them the magnet test
I'm a 30 plus years law enforcement officer and I have worked at different times with the Secret Service on a few cases and a shop or merchant can confiscate fake currency but not fake coins. Fakes are only illegal if someone tries to pass them off as real.
Buying one fake gold coin is absolutely devastating for a new collector or stacker, but it can usually be avoided easily if you exercise some patience and common sense.
I came across a fake American Eagle coin this week at my local flea market. I explained how to test the coin with a magnet to one of the cashiers who was very surprised but I’m sure the manager knew it was fake. He saw me looking at it in the case and didn’t bother to come over to let me see it.
sketch 🔥🐉
Should report him
Yes, at least mentioning something to the flea market operator was in order.
Love when you’re at Harry’s coin shop!!
me as well! 🔥🐉
When you talk about fake gold coins, are they real tender that's just electroplated with gold? If so can you still use them as a regular coin? I have a friend whos brother passed away & left him with thousands of "collectable" coins. He has no clue what is real, or what is fake, what do you suggest he should do to find that out?
There is no available AU coins in our America's economy due to the dye coins whatever it look like a real to us, but the silver is only the answers that's it.
Say what? @@GTO90s
Harry is a great guy. I highly recommended him. I can personally attest to his honesty.
yes indeed! 🔥🐉
when the store owner says buy the coin not the holder and the video maker goes on to talk more about the holder... GG
If the coins are in the holders (and they're not fake) there is no way to physically verify the coin without destroying the holder. So people are stuck having to consider the holders now as well.
Coin dealer says don’t get a second opinion. Sounds legitimate to me.
Anyone buying PM's need to invest in a sigma metalytics, a coin pinger and a balance tool for gold oz coins and a pocket balance. The latter three can be carried in a pocket, but are not bullet proof. All of theses tools together get you to a very high confidence level. As long as you have a phone, you should scan and compare stabbed coins as an extra measure.
At least make a coin slide, and a pocket pinger along with the Sunshine lens.
Much of the risk is gone when buying from a reputable dealer. It still happens though.
experience is a great thing to have as well 🔥🐉
they got the weight right, and the fake slides like real silver.. Passes sigma too, but bad portrait
@@dennisdragomir7572 WOW, those weren't able to be verified on the Sigma? Do you use the Pro version, or the base model?
I agree, and for now I have one scan program on this phone. The whole thing cam to a head as I was standing chatting with old and new friends at the Organic Market here in Mexico. A local guy came up to me and asked if I wanted to buy a coin. I poked at it, thought OK, 1916, you have my attention. I assumed silver dollar, and about 90% silver, so I quickly offered 200 pesos, or about 9 bucks. The guy said “Give me 400.” I said “No” and turned to walk away. He said “OK” and I took the ‘risk.’ The scan said 16 dollars to 4800 or so. Upon digging at the NGC site (and taking a closer look to see it was NOT a dollar) I discovered it was a Barber Half, and the mint was SF. The price appears to be 570 or more. I will send it to NGC to get it authenticated.
I have run all my NGC graded coins through their site, but sort of feel I need to take a second look at everything I have. Should there always be a picture? I'm pretty sure I have some that were registered but there was no photo. I cant say that all my earliest purchases were from legitimate shops or dealers. And I did get some fake Silver Eagles, but I was highly suspect at the time of purchase, but wanted to get one in my hand to test myself. They were bad knock offs. The diameter and thickness were noticeably off when placed on a true Eagle. The font was easily spotted as different as well as sloppy. They did pass magnet test and weight, but failed ping test. They came sealed in round capsules. like glue sealed.
The proliferation of ever increasing quality fake silver and gold coins is a real concern. I attend estate auctions and have to bring along my Sigma to test every coin, as so many are turning up now. Even if an NGC or PCGS holder looks legitimate I have to test the coin, as some fakes are sealed with a genuine hologram.
Will the Sigma test in a holder?
@@ssr4656 I was curious too, but after doing some quick searches it appears that the Sigma can indeed be used through plastic slabs and packaging.
@@ssr4656 Yes, Sigmas test in a holder. The tester is not perfect and can give erroneous results, but it's a good backup.
Which model of Sigma do you use and is it reliable and effective?
I can visualize the parking lot beggars trying pawn off fake coins for money. Coin shops might consider taking pics of the fake coins and emailing the pics to other vendors.
yeah not a bad idea really 🔥🐉
@@SilverDragons47 last year I was approached by a family at night asking for gas. Even though I didn't give them money they wanted to give me a men's gold ring, which likely is fake. They said they couldn't wait till the banks opened the next morning. That was the first time I've experienced this type of con.
@@thinkingimpaired5663 Gypsies. This is an old scam that seems to be making a comeback.
Wonderful. The whole idea behind certification was to protect the hobby and help assure coins were genuine and identified correctly. Now we’ve got criminals passing off counterfeit certified coins!!!
Anywhere there's cash to be scammed they'll eventually show up for a share of the spoils. Sad but true.
Its nice to hear that there are still nice people like Harry and Adrian ...real gentlemen
yes for sure! 🔥🐉
I found jars of coins at an old farm. I've sold only a few over the years to a private collector that I trust. Cash only. There were gold and silver coins all pre 1930. I'm glad i just sat on them for my later years, I knew prices would go this high. I need not be in a hurry. Don't worry it was the family farm.
I appreciate your content here. The videos have helped me to be a more educated buyer. Fortunately most of the coins I have purchased are common not always silver or gold. I started with collecting WW l & WW ll coins not pristine just good details. Watching this channel and couple others for a little while now have helped me to keep from making spontaneous buys. Thanks for good content and keeping details simple enough for beginners like me.
Love the video. But one question. I had an MS-70 silver eagle and reluctantly I had to take it to the coins shop to sell and they would only buy it for market value of the silver and not as a certified MS-70. They said it was because they certify lots of these. I was pissed at their reason. What do you think?
Can you do a video on shopping channel silver coins? They had 300 yr old coins that looked like they were casted yesterday. They wanted $2000 a piece. Probably just 1 ounce of silver value
Another tip is to download a free QR reader and scan the barcode. Many of these fake labels are too poor to scan, or return info that doesn't match the cert and grade (counterfeiters are not just sleazy, they're lazy). One criticism - you emphasize "buy the coin, not the holder", but say nothing about how to identify that the coin is fake. Comparing the one with the NGC images was a perfect opportunity to note that the fake coin is clearly not the same coin NGC photographed, but all you focused on was that the slab style is wrong.
did these fail the sigma machine?
Ya, the Sigma would catch them easy. I've found a few myself on my Sigma Pro.
yeah they would fail for sure 🔥🐉
That's why I don't like slabbed coins. Coins should be able to be touched. But I still think platinum is the way to go, due to the difficulty of counterfeting it.
I love platinum. Weigh it, measure it, done.
Thanks for another great video always watch you !!
you are welcome thanks for watching! 🔥🐉
5:05 in the hopes rhay previous coin inspector did an error maybe, but damn brutal with the fakes
I have been wanting to buy a $20 double eagle gold coin, and have seen a bunch online on Ebay and websites, but can not trust if its real and authentic. Have seen way too many counterfeits out there.
Every attempt to pass off a fake should be fully investigated...
Study your coins folks, dont just buy and stack. Inspect them, double check them, get familiar with the fonts used. I can immediately see the wrong font on the 2023 ASE. Also, the 2 sunrays touch Liberty's dress/flag but on the newer type 2 reverse coins, the sunrays on the obverse only have 1 ray that touches the flag...small things like that should alert you about the coin you are inspecting.
Great advice.
yes always trust but VERIFY 🔥🐉
Not just coins. Anything collectible. I almost bought a replica antique phone for reasonable authentic price.
Always Google when in an antique/vintage store. 😅
@@amaizenblue44 That's a great point.
@@amaizenblue44 excellent point!
You know TEMU is selling replica gold and silver.
Temu sells Trump coins and bills for 1/10 of what Trump sells them for.
Yes, they are 100% certified by TEMU 😅🤣😂😆
QUESTION // NEW SILVER EAGLE EDGE MISSING NOTCH, IS IT ALWAYS IN THE SAME SPOT OR DOES IT VARY DEPENDING ON THE MANUFACTURING MINT? I HAVE 2022 NEW DESIGN AND THE NOTCH IS BOTTOM LEFT NEAR THE SUN AND 2023 NEW DESIGN BUT THE NOTCH IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE HALF WAY UP AROUND THE MID SECTION?
There was an ebay seller with a slabbed Kruger Pond (not Krugerrand, the Victorian Era predecessor) which was in an NGC holder complete with all the latest holographic stuff and nonsense. The coin was a fake as could be seen from information readily available on line. Certain identifying marks present on all these particular fakes which started to show up some years ago. Initially I thought this was a question of the grading company being taken in, in which case what is the point of the grading in the first place. But now I wonder if it was just a fake coin in a fake slab.
My solution to this is to not buy coins in those NGC cases, if I was to have similar fakes; I would use them as decoys
yeah decoys are a good idea just don’t accidentally mix them in with your real bullion haha
this used to happen to us more frequently than you would think here in BC Canada with gold coins and bars, we used to have a pretty tight community here and would call at least 3 other shops and warn them and they would call three etc.
I worked pretty well. Our friends in a neighbouring city were robbed, they called us in am and gave us a list and an hour later the thieves came in and tried to sell to us, we called rcmp and locked the door and they were arrested.
This is how i buy gold and silver coins:
1) I do my due diligence
2) "When in doubt i throw it out" and do not buy it. I had to let go some wonderful gold coins in the past because something was seriously off about it. ( will tell you down below what i got confronted with)
3) with these "grading firms" there are bound to get fakes in. I mean people make certificates of anything to make a quick buck, dollar, yuan, euro or pound. As such, i look at what the official grades actually look like and what to pay attention to ( no matter if you are at a flea market, coin shop, coin convention or numismatic meeting, though numismatic meetings have no counterfeits unless some member brings one with him/her to have the team look at it). I have a small booklet with me where i have written down the things to look out for.
Now for some of my experiences. I was in a coinshop near Frankfurt. There were some "graded coins" there just like those featured in your video. However when i ran over a mini magnet the "gold coin" stuck to the plastic. I wisely backed out of that shop.
When i was visiting a NY jewellery longtime friend ( known each other since kindergarten and are like brothers from another mother). He bought a gold bar in good faith from a dealer that came recommended. Everything checked out, even the weight was nearly almost perfect. Turned out they holed out the gold bar, filled it with tungsten and then resealed it. ALL the security marks were present. Oh that "recommended dealer" was in legal hot water. My friend now uses highly technical equipment to check the bars validity and does not go on "good faith" anymore. He took a good financial hit with that bogus bar.
What i do not agree with is coinshops confiscating supposed "counterfeits". it is a "guilty until proven innocent" road and i am not a fan of that. Like many down below commented: " a less reputable coin shop can confiscate real deal gold coins and claim that "they fake bro". Just say "no we do not buy those because we suspect they are fake" and then explain why you think they are fake. Just a heads up, a numismatic member of our group, been in the business of coin collecting and is one of the most careful and cautious buyers i have ever met, got bamboozled with these grades as well. With him everything was "authentic". Just like with this, the number and barcode matched, the holographic mark was there ( the actual one) and there was a special seal that, so far he could see was not broken. Still it was a fake coin.
Thanks for putting these videos out. Novices that want to collect coins as well as more experienced people need these kinds of videos to know what to look out for.
Harry reminds me of the father from American Pie. 😂
He reminds me of the old man from UP
Mr. Fredrickson!!!!
Adrien could pass for my Mexican neighbors four year old son
Awesome and interesting video! Thanks!
you are very welcome thanks for watching! 🔥🐉
This causes ALOT of distrust in the bullion community its insane how good the fakes have gotten lately!
yes it is crazy to see fake gold coins in slabs! 🔥🐉
That's because they are, "from...China." Spoken with a Trump accent.
Just look at usd it's all fake and people just don't care.😂
@@citizengkar7824 Chy-nuh
@@citizengkar7824 Biden brings them in.
You can get silver coins that are authentic from ebay BUT usually from dealers selling mint sets or a silver coin in the original government packaging and looks very much untampered. I generally do not get bullion coins (maybe once a year) and avoid anything that has substantial numismatic worth. For those I go to a brick and mortar dealer to see the object in person. A reputable dealer will hold a coin for your if you want to double check the dealer's track record and the coin. If a dealer is pressuring to buy something immediately that to me is a red flag to run far away!
Being Canadian, I'm happy to stick with our Maples for smaller denomination stacking. They must be too difficult/costly to fake because I haven't heard of one yet...
wait for my next video 😁
Uh oh......
Fake Silver Eagles are out there, why not Canadian Maples?
How do you know as a collector that you dont have fake maple leafs.. You had to trust someone to buy it... even the Perth Mint in Australia has sold underweight gold coins..
The wisdom from the vids on counterfeits is priceless. Scary stuff and makes you want to spend the extra money to ensure you are getting the real deal from legitimate dealers.
I wouldn't paint Ebay as a place to avoid with your broad brush
I thought people collected counterfeit currency as long as it was stamped counterfeit. But I guess it is illegal. I thought I had seen some U.S. counterfeit notes for sale at a coin shop a couple decades ago in L.A., but can't remember. Collecting fake money would be an interesting area of collection.
You can order any of these fakes from a Chinese super store. Fake $100's as well as all of these fake coins, and even fake Credit Suisse gold bars. They're a couple bucks. The better fakes are a bit tougher to find and cost a little more, but the crooks trying to pass these are NOT losing money. We're talking a few bucks for a couple grand.
The law states possession with intent. Meaning mearly possessing it isn't a crime on it's own, like using them as decoy, if you are trying to spend it or sell it, knowing it was fake, you would be committing a crime. It's a hard crime to prosecute.
"Just don't take it to another dealer and hope they won't catch it, that's bad etiquette."
Is that man really that naive? They're criminals, they don't give af.
He said it like that for the video. For TH-cam audience
@@ThePeacePlant Looking at some of the commenters on TH-cam, I think they fall into the same category.
Harry is a nice guy and just putting his best foot forward here. After a stout brandy snort, I'm sure he'd gladly tell you he'd kneecap any MFer with a bat trying to pass fakes in his store.
I would certainly want a second opinion.
you dont understand what hes saying. hes talking about people who got fakes without realizing but now are trying to sell it
Question, if you scanned one of the bar codes on the fake case, nothing would happen, correct?- Or does the scam include a fake NGC listing too?
West Germany, 1971. My dad and I (I was 15) were in a junk store, and saw a $5 US gold coin. They only wanted $30 for it. HELL YES!!! I grabbed it, immediately. The mistake the owner made? He brought out a SECOND $5 gold coin, identical year and mint mark. Umm....NO.
having pre 1933 gold in quantity in Europe at that time wasn't uncommon. so it's very possible to be real
How does one check to see if silver and gold is real? Do you need the piece of equipment that does the tests? Thank you, Mark
I would have liked to know how they knew they were fake, besides the plastic container.
The fake container is used to fool a buyer into believing the coins are graded by NGC. A credible coin grading company.
yes me to like he said buy the coin not the holder . he could of tested it a number of things could tip him off.
Wow, this is eye opening. Thanks for posting!
This looks like a great coin shop, unfortunately i can't visit but we need more of those!
Wow. That’s disturbing. A few years ago I took some uncirculated coins out of a 20th century type set holder to have appraised at Heritage auctions in Dallas. I started collecting coins in 1964 with my late father, long before the days of coin grading services and the coin specimens in the set were in pristine condition with no toning. Some would have graded MS 65+ easily. To my shock, two of the cocky young appraisers said they had been brushed. Nonsense. I knew they hadn’t and later sold them online to savvy collectors for hundreds of dollars. It would have cost me quite a bit of money to have sent them to PCGS or ANACS to be individually graded and slabbed and I probably would have been able to sell some for thousands instead of hundreds but I needed money at the time and didn’t want to go through the expense. Be aware of coin graders who profess to have experience but don’t.
And you are...?
So, you took the coins to Heritage...a world class auctioneer...and the PROFESSIONALS told you the coins had been "brushed" (I guess you mean "whizzed")? And you...a non-professional...think they were wrong, just because you "bought the coins a long time ago"? How do you know they hadn't been "brushed", whatever that means?
Then, you refused to get them professionally graded, because you "needed the money"? And how do you know the collectors you sold to online were "savvy"? Did you know them personally? Did you really mean "suckers"?
I mean, your whole comment here seems to be precisely the situation you warn against in your last line.
@@timber72 Wow I was going to make the same point but you did it so eloquently.
Good video. Fakes like the ones shown have always worried me. I appreciate the information.
Can the "Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier" work on coins that are encapsulated / sealed in holders?
Just like watches..., if you have high enough value ex.(2023 American Eagle 1 oz. Gold), some ppl/companies would invest heavy in a quality fakes.
How do you test a coin in a holder without breaking the holder?
Was nice meeting you sir. Stage left unkempt nusmatist there for this show. Morgans and Washingtons out cause of me. Lol. Figure since I recognized you, I'd give my online persona to ya.
Having collected coins for 30 years, since I was 8, I've come to learn that unless you're buying and selling true rarities, coin collecting is nothing more than an expensive hobby and not an investment. I do have a few coins that have appreciated in value over 20 years, but not wildly so. If I had invested that same money in the stock market, I'd have far more money. Heck - I had fun while it lasted and do, from time to time, like to look at the few coins I've kept. As for everything else I owned, I sold it all and dumped the proceeds into my Roth IRA - which has grown significantly more in the past 5 years than all my coins combined over the past 30.
Having a Roth IRA with the right stocks and kept for many years can easily fund your retirement. That’s what I did.
yep. only rare coins can give someone a fortune. the recent ones are mass produced to sell to suckers and make it an expensive hobby.
Are Counterfeit Sigma Machines being sold?
So did the coinshop confiscate those coins....? Did they accidently buy them? How did they aquire them?
I have those same slabs. I buy them from china for $1 each and make my own labels. The easiest tell is the label, and the finger slots to open the slab. I like to use the slabs to slab my own coins. They do seem very similar to NGC slabs, and thats why I like them. Sometimes they put fake coins in and glue them, those are ones really gotta watch for can't weigh the coin. Also the holo sticker on the back, china sells them in books cheap. So the sticker means nothing unless you have one to compare with.
'books of holo stickers' what chance do we stand then😡
always gotta check your coins to make sure they are legit 🔥🐉
Yes all roads dealing with fake coins lead to China
Newbie asking: When you sell coins or rounds to a dealer do they have to be out of the plastic capsules or do they buy them in the capsule?
Either way. They can verify them even inside a capsule. I would recommend taking them in to the dealer as you have them. :-)
usually they keep everything in the capsule 🔥🐉
Thank you
Great information for everyone to know.
Thank you so much for this video. I always thought all NGC graded coins were trustworthy. It’s so shocking that there are so many fake gold and silver coins mixed in.
Thank you so much for information
you are very welcome thanks for watching! 🔥🐉
Wow !!!! NGC. THIS IS SCARY!!
I know so crazy to see! 🔥🐉
I purchased a 2023 1oz silver Britannia off of eBay for $32 dollars free shipping. It's authentic. What major bullion dealer can I go to to find the same coin for the same price? I've bought from JM Bullion, Hero, MCM, etc... and 1 coin has cost me $38-$39 dollars with shipping cost. Not everyone can afford to buy bulk. 1 coin at a time is all that some folks can afford. If I shouldn't go to eBay, where can I go to get a $100 bucks or less worth of silver for an affordable price with free shipping?
I bought a silver eagle that I was almost sure was fake. I took it to the dealer I buy silver from. The sales lady told me it was fake without even touching it. The owner told me it is a crime to possess counterfeit coins. He said get it marked with the word copy to be legal. I had an engraving store add Copy so I could keep it. When I reported the issue to Etsy they refunded my purchase price.
This is why you don’t buy gold or silver from ads on TV
Harry: "it's bad etiquette."
Reality: it's fraudulent behavior.
Harry is such a nice guy.
What makes them look like the real thing? How would you catch Orichalcum ? Is there a hand held tester for %?
Interesting video. You speak about testing the coins ourselves. What is the best method to test gold and silver?
Yep, no answer.
Great Video. Protect yourself. So True. Lots of fake stuff out there. I appreciate seeing videos like these . It helps to train my "eye".
I despise scumbags and scammers etc. Morals, values, integrity! Great job guys.
there is one story out there where a shop owner bought gold coins from a local dealer for years only to find out after he retired that all of his retiremen money in coins were fake...
Got to say I've been having a blast watching this channel just now. (The Harry's one's so far). I have no want to collect coins or w/e, but it's really interesting content, glad you shared.
Shoot me now! I don't know what the heck I would do. Buyer beware. Get a reputable LCS
yes indeed a reputable LCS is a must! 🔥🐉
That’s crazy! I collect sports cards and they do the same thing with PSA slabs even getting a number that shows the correct card. PSA even gets fooled sometimes and grades fakes as authentic cards or cards with a signature of the player. Difficult to trust anyone with all of the tech out there to do these things
stop collecting them, it has no value. FOOD water and guns
Great video bro! Thanks for the heads up.
Wow..
What a shame so many evil scammers out there. Thats alot of money to lose. Id be so livid. Thank you, good tips.
What is the name of this coin shop and where is it located.
6:10 He looks a lot like Robin Williams and has that same calming and friendly demeanor that Robin had.
What you do is go to Manhattan on a Friday afternoon. Put the coins in a envelope along with paper documentation of their worth. Find sucker and hand them the envelope in your best drunk impression voice and say "I just found these on the street. Are they worth anything? I'll sell them to you if you give me a reasonable price. I don't have my glasses and I need to get something to eat." Wait for an offer and if it's enough, take it and disappear before the buyer notices that some of the coins have 'replica' imprinted on them in small print.......
Is there a way to test slabbed gold or silver coins? Are the holders not to thick ?
One simple way is through experience. Old gold coins have a certain luster, or cartwheel effect, & color that cannot be faked. An 1800's gold coin does not look very bright yellow. Using your eyes on legit coins will give you a good clue as to what looks "right". Experience is what you need badly, right before you get some.
Im curious if you know the exact weight of an authentic holder. I'd guess there is a fairly large discrepancy between a real gold coin in an authentic holder vs a fake in a fake. I understand this is NOT how anyone should try and determine authenticity. They could make a heavier fake holder to compensate for a lighter coin. However, I can't help but be extremely curious.
Clear something up for me here. Are you saying the gold itself is fake or just the certifications fake?
Any gold buyer can test the metal, right? Even if the coins are not actually certified, the gold has scrap value, right?
Yeah but you haven't replied to my question which you brought up, when did the Ridge Security mark start?, what year coins are these marks on?
Are they on older coins also or just these new ones.
Temu sells a lot of such "coins", ... although they state that they are "gold colored", or "silver colored", or something to that effect. Not sure why they produce these things, and then "market" them.
Chy-nah is the BIGGEST fake producer ever. Commies are liars, first & foremost.
What does the shop do when a customer comes in with fakes? Buy them to get them out of circulation and discard them the appropriate way I assume? Just curious. Cheers!
Is there a way to test the coins to swe if they are fake
He should confiscate them just so that the criminals get the word out that he does it to reduce his exposure to dealing with this in the future.
What if the coins don't fit the declared grade but are still gold coins? That'd be a tricky position to be in since they still have value.
The confiscation issue is a problem. On the one hand these are still legal tender and should be taken out of circulation as quickly as possible, but on the other it would be easy for an unscrupulous dealer to say 'aww, this gold is fake' and confiscate a genuine coin.
I think informing a customer that they're fake and letting them take the coins back is the best bet. What the customer chooses to do with them is then on them.
Great video! Thank you for the education! I'm a big golden age comic book collector but it's fun to learn about other collectibles.
I received some half dollars. Mixed in were fake Walkers. They were common date coins which is crazy. I told the seller, and i was refunded the full amount. Third time buying on Etsy. Not again.
What does sonically sealed actually mean?
This is why people are turned off from numismatics. Bad experiences from unscrupulous online sellers and in person sales whether they are private, a dealer or a wholesaler.
Wow, excellent video. Thanks for sharing!
This is scary. Thank you for the video!
you are very welcome! 🔥🐉
Any of these counterfeits ever passed the ping test silver or gold coins ?