An update to this award-winning investigation with The New York Times into the design, oversight and production of Boeing’s 737 Max jet is available for streaming here: th-cam.com/video/Z76YpCz9N2Y/w-d-xo.html
Because since Ronald Alzheimer became president in 1981, the goal was RIP OFF (AKA, make money by pump and dump). When a bean counter is in charge of engineering, that is when Challenger STS28, and Boeing Max fall out of sky.
@@andrewhatton1606 For what it's worth, their older aircraft (all non-MAX 737 planes, the 747, the 757, the 767, the 777, and the 787) are perfectly safe and up-to-date on safety features. The 737 MAX is the only plane that still has problems.
I think it was Sully who said something like "no matter how much a pilot trained or how many hours flown they cannot compensate for a design flaw".. I think this was a great example. RIP.
sully would have stalled and crashed if the fly by wire system didn't override his control inputs... just sayin. He isn't the hero everyone thinks. the flight data recorder shows it very clearly that what he was trying to do would have made the situation far worse if the aircraft had let him.
They murdered these pilots and then blamed them for incompetency. What's more is that I immediately bought their story. Thank you, Frontline, for putting me to shame and reflection.
Im a 737 Pilot coming up on 20 years of flying. I just wanted to say, my hats off to the crew of Lion Air, who did an outstanding job fighting to save that aircraft, and for doing everything right that day for their passengers. Much respect to my fellow pilots, and rest in peace.
Thank you for saying that.. I have the upmost respect for all pilots and do believe that there are too many air crash investigations that bias towards pilot error. That being said it is true that some pilots are not as experienced these days at actually flying a plane rather they are more and more becoming software managers in the cockpit. It is sad that this is happening. Automation of something as critical as flying a passenger aircraft should be no more than a tool not the main source of operating the aircraft and it's only getting worse. Now with the bigger Jumbo Jets like the A-380 with a capacity to fly over 600 passengers and crew, it seems ludicrous to me that this plane has more automation than any other in the World if I'm not mistaken. Boeing is so guilty of so many transgressions against society with their clever little lies they really should be penalized more harshly than a measly 2.5bill. settlement. People should have been charged with murder in because of their deletion of MCAS from the flight manuals. God bless all those who've lost their lives for the purpous of monetary gain without regard for human life.
@@jessentacampcambe3363 He is talking about the flight the day before. The same plane was safely flown back because thr pilots did the proper procedure. The next day that same plane crashed different pilots.
@@sourabhjain9075 Mcas got activated bc a bad AOA sensor gave the flight computers bad info. there are two of them but mcas only uses only info from one AOA sensor at a time.
As a retired airline pilot with 27,000 hours on various Boeing's including the B737 I would like to believe that put in the same scenario when I first noticed a major and irrational movement of the Stabiliser Trim I would have immediately de powered the electric Stab Trim and manually re trimmed prior to entering a high speed condition, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. This aside for Boeing to put a new system on a jet that has the ability to aggressively manipulate the flight controls and is predicated on a single sensor whilst not informing either the pilots or the airlines who operated them is in my view a criminal act and has damaged my view of Boeing irreparably.
The Lion Air captain did recognize it and was maintaining control of the plane. MCAS is disabled when the flaps are extended, when it first started going off after flap retraction he put them back out. MCAS was disabled for many minutes after that until for reasons the investigation never looked into the flaps were retracted again. After that he kept manually retrimming the plane keeping it under control. It wasn't until he transferred control to the FO that the plane went out of control. The FO just sat there and did nothing.
@ boeingdriver29 how much does air speed impact the ability to manually trim/ re trim the stabilizer? As well, on take off, is air speed something that can be greatly reduced in this scenario? Because it seems to me (totally unfamiliar with the subject) that reducing air speed in order to gain manual control of the trim wheel may have been a key element to safely landing the aircraft back at the departing airport. Curious to see your response, or of those with experience.
@@wit2pz It impacts the ability to manually trim greatly. The faster you are going the heavier the forces get. In both of the Max accidents airspeed control by the crews was awful, they left the autothrottles in the takeoff power position the whole flights. They never tried to slow down and never took full manual control of the plane. Terrible airmanship.
@@pyromcr fair enough, but it begs the question why did the pilot who said "the kid did exactly the right thing" not make mention of disabling the auto throttles in takeoff power positions as they went through the analysis of the black box data? I feel for both crews in these scenarios, which is why I wonder of more could've been done. In accordance with the report, 4 seconds of reaction proved to be significantly bad with pilots who had the extensive training on the simulator. 10 seconds proved catastrophic. Criminal negligence definitely plays a big part in this, and it seems to me that several of the folks making the decisions should be serving prison sentences!
@@wit2pz Like everything to do with the media, if they want to push a narrative they aren't going to interview people who aren't going to say what they want. Objective journalism is dead.
Thanks to that pilot for recognizing the foreign pilot they tried to blame. “That kid got it right.” He probably got some hate from that statement. That’s real character.🙏🏽
Somebody should bring a class action suit representing all non American pilots flying the 737 against Boeing for defamation. Boeing is still trying to say the plane is good enough and its the foreign pilots fault. They wont stop their defamation till a dollar cost is attached to it. Say 10000 dollar damages per pilot they have defamed. I am guessing there are about 20000 pilots flying 737s all over the world. So a 200 million settlement should be enough to stop Boeing from lying.
Pilots are always blamed and it is nothing new and that's just a fact if you saw the sully movie you can get a hint of how much the authorities tries to blame a pilot
Listening to that Pilot talk about his realization when the First Officer made the right call and was still doomed - man that always gets me. He is an excellent communicator and his emotion is overwhelming even as he manages to keep himself composed.
I'm a pilot, and I have a cynical saying: The world's important decisions are always made by people who don't have to live with them. This is very true in airlines. The problem here is that runaway trim is so rare, actual recovery has been lost on many. In fact, the trim wheels are smaller than they used to be in the 737. I can't speak for the reasons, but it's obvious that this reduces leverage you have to fix it. The fact is, pilots should have been familiar with how to handle runaway trim. But the manual only goes as far as turning it off. When you turn those wheels, you're turning a jack screw that's over 100' behind you and it's much like the little crank jack you have in your car. Hard to use, but it gets the job done. But the further the trim has been allowed to move as well as the higher the airspeed, the harder it gets to turn. The only way out is to relieve the pressure you're applying to the elevator (and letting the nose just drop even further) to allow that wheel to turn, and then hope you can recover in time. Not ideal when you're close to the ground. Getting back to my first statement: MCAS was NOT enabled when the flaps were extended (as they are for takeoff) or the autopilot on. There is a lot going on after takeoff, and in most aircraft, the current feel of the plane changes quite a lot as flaps are retracted. In most aircraft, the pilot would counteract these changes and apply trim to compensate. The point is, with everything going on, the pilot flying is going to just keep flying and doing the normal thing until something triggers his brain that there's a problem. After an incident involving the E175 where runaway trim was caused by damaged wiring (that was quickly addressed), in our own E175 simulator I was given a surprise runway trim in level flight. It took me just over 3 seconds to recognize it and kill the system. After just that much time, I had to apply very heavy control forces to maintain level flight. And that plane has no physical trim wheel. So however far it goes is what you get to try to land with. Again, that was in straight and level flight with no other anomalies. When these crashes first happened, I was kind of Boeing's side in that, yeah, they should have recognized runaway trim and dealt with it accordingly. But after learning more about what was going on (both aircraft had various warnings and cautions flashing and blaring from takeoff), it is almost impossible to assume this wouldn't have happened. You get distracted trying to figure out what's going on. Then you look up again and think, oh I need to pay attention when you see the plane isn't going where you want. You correct it. Or try to, but something feels off... Is it the trim? It takes time under the best of circumstances. MAYBE some countries have better pilots than others, or at least better trained. But as far as I know, all countries require certification to fly large airplanes like this. And it is both Boeing's and the regulator's responsibility to ensure that the pilots are trained to a level that is necessary. Idk why I typed such a long thing. This was a very good video on the subject. It was a rarely intelligent outside look at an industry that often causes confusion among laymen.
As a pilot, can you answer a simple question please? Why there is no such thing as 'free of assist flight mode' in the 737 max? I mean a special panic button that disables all the possible electronic flight control adjustments and interferences. They could just press the button and fix the trimming electronicaly with a tiny handle or a couple button pressed or whatever. Instead the only way to overcome a mad electronic assist is a complete electrical shut down and a freaking trim wheel. And also, how does it come that the trimming adjustment is allowed to be that critical? I'd expect it's limited to a small part of the working range of the elevators, like 10 maybe 20 or 30 percents. Apparently the trimming has eaten the majority of the working angle so the manual pitching hasn't been working anymore? Am I wrong? Also, what if you rollover the plane up side down with full pitch down (or pull off)? Will it fly to the ground or not?
Really appreciate hearing from someone who actually understands all the factors. Hearing some of the Reporter's points of view, speaking as if they know the interworking of flight and equipment, was painful. Thanks for being a rational voice in this!
Bravo...Bravo, Senor Richard on your reatime experience & synopsis. "Every advancement in aviation, engineering, and medicine is demarcated one funeral at a time." - unknown BA shifted out of an engineering company to financial engineering when Macair infected BA's mgmt & board. Now that only 15% of BA's revenue come from the comm. aircraft division, I wouldn't be surprised if aircraft mfg. would be spun off and IPO'd. Such is financial engineering in the USA.
A single sensor failure being able to create a catastrophic event violates ALL principles of redundancy for which American aviation has been based on since at LEAST the late 50s.
Yes, the British Comet exploded three times, and lost its place as a manufacturer. Boeing has two planes self destruct with passengers aboard, and then a fuselage fall off, and their share price is still competitive. That is a sign of a society that has lose its way.
I get what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that MCAS WAS designed to assist the pilot to recover from a deep stall, so technically what you are alluding to is false. The flaw wasn’t the MCAS itself, but rather the design process of allowing a single input (in these 2 cases an erroneous input) to fire and continue to fire the MCAS and stabilizer trim to the down position.
@@markg7963 Pretty sure it has been well established via multiple sources that Boeing's principle reason for installing the software AND NOT TELLING THE AIRLINES AND THE PILOTS was so they could CLAIM it handled exactly like the previous version and so NOT require pilot re-training. Airbus were offering this on their competing claim and so, in order to secure a share of new sales, Boeing cut corners and lied about this feature. Whatever the system did or did not purport to do, the reason it was installed in the way it was and the reason they lied was to SELL MORE PLANES. This is not some kind of extrapolation, inference or opinion, verifiable from multiple credible sources and findings.
Miraculously, the depressurized flight returned to PDX with no major casualties. Another wake up call about the inherent design flaws and reliance on substandard manufacturing from 3rd party Spirit.
And by the looks of it, it seems that they also hid the fac t that cockpit doors were supposed to open during a rapid decompression. Blancolirio on youtube is amazing at explaining it
@@Alex_Coaster_Adventurer I think there is some confusion about these doors. The doors are never designed to open without a human operator engaging the mechanism. The doors are equipped with depressurization panels, either blow out or open up to allow rapid airflow to equalize the pressure during a depressurization event. They functioned as designed and maintained the integrity of the aircraft. But the depressurization was so sudden and rapid that they had to function or the bulkhead would have suffered damage.
@@NickKautzno, it demonstrated the main reason why those disasters happened: lazy, idiot and put profit to all. Instead of a well-trained software engineer working in a department or a team of engineers of their own, they choose contractors. The disaster of MCAS prolonged so much because it is separated to tens of packages, those be sold to few India software companies. But then those companies divided their package into hundreds of smaller packages and put those in trading network. The company that buy one of those smaller packages divided it to thousands of micro packages and sent to software programmer whose received a salary that barely keep them alive for a day if they complete that micro packages. The result was a clusterfuck of multiple program languages, commands, compiles and modules that engineer in Boeing or those companies bought the large packages knew how it worked. The same for the Alaska incident, instead of a well-trained engineer trained by Boeing, they choose the contractor and the contractor forgot to bolt down the door.
Wow, blaming the pilots whose trainings you prevented and still one of them got it right at one point and it didn’t work. Blaming pilots when all you did was fill your pocket without a care in the world for lives. That’s just evil.
and thats just how alot of the world is, money takes over and it is more important than peoples' lives. its really sad that its not all on how safe the plane is its how much profit we can get off this plane and if the safety is good then were good, its money over everything and thats for everything. sad sad world
And that's what corp.America does, more money for their top directors, and little bit of safety and lack of proper training for their employees, in this case , both are to blame
I'll take (Amtrak) anytime instead of flying, Thank god for ZOOM Video communications, I can do a Zoom company videos and NOT have to fly to certain areas for Conference Meetings. And now with the ICE STORM across thee country, I'm sure there are more ZOOM meeting if there is still electricity in those down right frozen areas of the U.S.
Boeing blame Lion Air pilots for lack of training, and yet they themself trying to keep the training material out of pilot's hands. I was like, "Do you realize what you've just said?"
I still struggle to 100% acquit Lion Air for their crash because they have a long history of not training pilots well & providing lackluster maintenance.
@@beckmill *HE DID RECORD IT.* You just blew 90% of your credibility with that irreversible Corporate Culture comment lecture. Go ahead and double-down in attempt to blow it off arrogantly , and you could be the next CEO @ Boeing. I C & Ped your master piece to preserve for posterity. Based upon the probability exposed idiocy has a 98% chicken-shit delete rate. Unworthy of, and unwilling to spot you a 2% benefit of doubt. He should have agreed that he was "not going to write it down." Then he should have recorded it.
@@raymond3803 You're as sharp as a marble and have have as much credibility about business as Bill Clinton has about marital fidelity. It's crystal-clear that what you know about corporate culture could occupy the head of a pin, which would still be easily visible in its entirety. And, of course, you have to hid behind a phony alias. But at least you're 100% consistent when it comes to disingenuousness.
Former aeronautical engineer. The root cause of the 737 Max tragedy was somewhat under-emphasized in this otherwise excellent documentary: the aerodynamic design of the 737 Max is fundamentally flawed due to the stretched fuselage and larger engines that had to be extended forward, likely to maintain center of gravity limits. In certain regions of the pitch/speed envelope, the aircraft is unstable and will undergo sudden pitch up departure - it even scared the test pilots. The fact that Boeing engineers tried to fix a dangerous aerodynamic flaw in a civil airliner with software originally designed for risk tolerant military aircraft is jaw-droppingly stupid. The design should have been started over from a clean sheet, but I'm sure Boeing management wouldn't have considered that option for more than a millisecond before going with the MCAS fix. The ending was rather abrupt too - they just mention that the Max has been returned to flight. Why? What fixes were applied to the MCAS software? Does the fact that it now uses two AOA sensors really make it fail safe? What happens if both sensors fail? What other failure modes did they identify and fix? Simulator training in MCAS incidents is now recommended, but likely only for the known failure mode that caused the previous crashes. How many thousands of hours of software failure mode analysis by non-Boeing software engineers did the MCAS system undergo before being re-cleared for flight? How many new failure modes did they identify and put into the simulator training program? And the most basic question of all: why is a dangerously unstable design allowed to fly as a commercial airliner in the first place?
I don't think this take really makes sense in the context of modern commercial airliners. Modern control law means that inherent aerodynamic properties can have little to do with how the plane feels to the pilot; as long as that is extremely reliable, that's OK. Two AOA sensors do make it substantially more safe. MCAS control authority is more restricted now so that it remains controllable even if MCAS activates several times repeatedly, it can only activate once both sensors agree that the aircraft's angle of attack is above a threshold, and it can only activate again once both sensors agree that the aircraft's angle of attack has gone below that threshold. If at any point the sensors disagree by too much, MCAS is disabled for the remainder of the flight (and a disagree alert is shown) .
@@AmbientMorality It's not a "take", it's a fact: the 737 Max design is aerodynamically flawed. Only in military aircraft, where the pilots have tacitly agreed to risk their lives every flight, is it acceptable to have software maintain aerodynamic stability. For example, the F-117 is a very unstable aircraft kept flying (most of the time) by software. But a civil airliner should not require software to keep it from rapidly stalling. Your run-down of the new MCAS modes sounds like classic engineering overconfidence: "we fixed what we know was broken. It must be fail safe now - good to go!" The only truly permanent and fail safe fix for the 737 Max design flaw is to start over with a clean sheet design.
@@tomberger8628 737 MAX's static margin decreases at high angle of attack, but it doesn't go negative. It is not statically unstable like fighter planes. If you let go of the controls of the 737 MAX, even at high angle of attack, it would return to the trimmed condition (because it's still statically stable). You are assuming MCAS availability needs to be high. It doesn't, because the high angle of attack where that behavior occurs shouldn't be encountered in a typical flight anyway and the plane is still stable even then (though it's not desirable).
@@AmbientMorality You bring up an interesting point: if the only time MCAS is needed in the Max is during highly unusual conditions such as the banking climb condition that originally initiated its development or the later-discovered "aggressive take-off" scenario, then why have it at all? Was MCAS really developed just to keep incompetent pilots from getting into risky situations that a good pilot could either avoid or easily recover from? If so, then that's a terrible reason to add software control to a system because, as shown, if the software system fails it becomes the lethal risk factor. Emphasize that I'm not saying the pilots in the two crashes were incompetent - they were not. They were faced with a software system that failed and essentially murdered them.
As a person who lost a dear young sister in a plane crash it is disturbing to know that Boing CEO left company with millions of dollars of compensation and not being criminally charge.
I am very sorry for your loss may her soul rest in peace that’s why I don’t fly the max I had to change airlines because they kept put me in the max so when I booked with the another airline I made sure that it was non max it was the A320NEO Series thank God it is safe.
I broke down watching that segment, too. I could feel his frustration at a completely preventable situation that ended the life of innocent people. I am exceedingly frustrated with the current state of American corporate culture. Everything is driven by greed and speed. The folks running these companies aren't passionate about their craft, they're passionate about making money for the shareholders. This problem has been left to fester long enough now that it's not just at the executive level, the toxic "profit first" culture has entangled middle managers, too. Subject Matter Experts are ignored, issues get covered up, products are pushed to launch earlier and earlier before they're stable. Accelerating this issue, we continue to elect leaders that allow lobbyists to persuade our law makers to deregulate and take a laissez faire approach. No one was held accountable here. Nothing will change, because now they know they can get away with sloppy engineering and internal cover-ups with the only detriment being a minor financial setback. Manipulating the FAA and removing the references to the new system to avoid simulator time (for financial gain) should be considered criminal negligence. The people making these calls should be charged and put on trial. Let a jury decide.
Yeah, this part gets me every time I watch this video. Sad part is that since no one was really held responsible for this tragedy, I have a feeling this not the end of it. RIP everyone onboard these flights.
Its normal corporate behaviour these days. Everything revolves around cosy cronyism with regulators, whether it is banking or aircraft manufacturing, all the same. All about image and cheating and profits. I find it hard to believe that insurers who are in that cosy circle dont take a harder stance on regulation, after all, a disaster like this will cost them dear.
@@dummgelauft - do you therefore actually blame Obama or Biden for things that happen during their tenure, or are those events and issues merely caused by the specific people/organizations involved in the matter?
@@davidswanson5669 actually, I do. Who gets the burden of blame for the Afghanistan fiasco? Biden, ofcourse. Who gets the blame for starting the dismantling of America? Obama.
$2.5 billion dollar fine.... on a reported $370 billion in preorders. 6.7% of their gross. I pay a higher percentage than that in sales tax for a soda... and it doesn't kill 300 people.
The audacity to intentionally hide the system info from pilots to save money on training, then blaming pilots for not knowing how to react to it when it malfunctions is unbelievable, and infuriating. Ironic how they were calling foreign pilots idiots when they wanted training and then ended up being the real idiots when they were out tons more money, business, etc than they would have been had they did it right the first time.
and then have the gall to claim 'Safety is our top priority!' it's been obvious for years that the bottomline is their top priority. Anything to keep sales going and and cutting corners to spend as little as possible
Yeah "foreign pilots are poorly trained" and "look at these stupid dumb foreign pilots who want to be trained" - the self serving duplicity is disgusting, one of the worst things about human nature.
Main motivating factor wasn't necessarily saving money with the exception of the Southwest deal, it sounds more like it was an attempt at customer retention after several debacles, they were going to lose American Airlines as a customer to Airbus if they couldn't get a fuel efficient twin engine plane out the door, so instead of designing a new one they tried modifying the 737. Doesn't make it right but 'saving money' is a bit too watered down of an explanation.
It is infuriating that those pilots who are just as much victims of Boeing as the passengers are still being smeared to this day. They did everything right and instead of being treated as victims they’re being calling incompetent pilots and having the blame of the hundreds of deaths shifted on them. I can’t imagine how painful this must be for their families, knowing their loved one will forever have a tarnished reputation when they did everything they could to save their passengers. May they Rest In Peace and be remembered as good people.
Doubt they did everything right. Nobody does everything right every time which is why safety critical systems are built with multiple safeguards unlike MCAS. They did what could be reasonably expected from passenger plane pilots. Maybe an ex fighter pilot or a test pilot could have figured things out quickly enough. But if your plane needs fighter pilots perfect effort to not fall out of the sky it should not be certified to carry passengers
It's also infuriating how the NYT tries to exhalt itself as sort of virtue watchdog on this, while they're just as dishonest and scummy in their reporting these days. These big companies just loveeeee to push this image that they're morally superior and ethical beacons, but scratch the surface even slightly, and you find nothing but the most corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, petty, and fake people as any other time in history.
@vibratingstring If you are trying to say all American pilots are ex fighter pilots thats not true of all. And even if it was , if a civilian plane needs fighter pilot reflexes its not safe enough to be carrying passenger. Fighter planes have ejection seats. Passenger planes dont so they have to be built safer.
There is more to this story. Boeing used to be a company run by engineers headquartered in Seattle. The safety and engineering excellence of their products was their first priority, and profits would follow. Problems were solved by the engineers with support of the board. After it's merger with Douglas in 1997, Douglas executives took over the board, and in 2001, moved the headquarters to Chicago (i.e., managing the company from 2000 miles away). Do you know why the 737 sits so close to the ground? It was designed for airports that had stairs for boarding rather than jet bridges. To meet Airbus's challenge, rather than building a new, modern replacement for the 737, the bean counters in Chicago decided to band-aid the 50 year old design by adding new larger (diameter and weight) engines rather than producing a new safe, state of the art airplane. To get ground clearance, the engines were moved forward, which moved the center of gravity forward, making the plane more unstable, especially with respect stall characteristics. MCAS was supposed to compensate for that and keep the pilots out of trouble. Pressure from the board short-circuited the development and testing process and led to the debacle that followed. I find it interesting that the board is still making excuses for the failures that were ultimately their responsibility rather than correcting the processes that led to the failures. The board is currently in the process of dismantling the remaining engineering staff in Seattle. Airbus has overtaken Boeing in sales and engineering expertise. China has completed the first flight of their 737 competitor. I have little faith that Boeing will be able to regain its culture and engineering expertise.
First, it wasn't the board, it was the customers. One in particular. Second, the center of thrust didn't move at all and yes the engines were moved forward 7 inches. They 7 inches on a 130 foot airliner. You know what else changes CG? LOAD. You know, the thing that is different for every flight, that load. So please explain in more detail how those 7 inches made the airplane "less stable". Third, there's one small thing you might want to keep in mind during your Douglas takeover made them less safe rants: the actual safety record. If commercial airliners were still crashing at the same rate today as they were in 1997, they would be going down somewhere on the order of once per week. Yes, one airliner every single week. There are a lot of reasons they shouldn't have moved to Chicago, but building a less safe product as a result isn't one of them.
@@Milkmans_Son In 1997 there were 16 commercial airliner crashes. No, not one airliner every single week. And add 2 more if you want to include commercial cargo plane crashes.
@@BOTzerker Work on your math if you don't get it. Accident Rate = (Number of Accidents) / (Unit of Exposure) Do I need to step you through this? Googling "how many airliners crashed in 1997" only gives you part of the equation. Looking forward to your next excuse.
@@BOTzerker Man, there goes one of the smartest dudes I've ever met in my life. Even when he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, his comments are golden. Nice knowing you.
This is the American business mindset since the 1970s when Milton Friedman declared that business “has no social responsibility.” Since then, American quality of manufacturing and service has tanked as companies quashed labor unions and started the trend of making money by sacrificing quality of materials and workmanship - always with the excuse that it was necessary to remain competitive. But, no matter how underpaid or overworked employees are, no matter how many corners are cut, substandard materials employed, the “cost savings” never actually get passed along to the customers. Somehow, all that additional margin finds its way into the pockets of someone who orchestrated the “savings,” executives, and shareholders. A $2.5BN settlement on a $370BN sales run is nothing. Less than 5%? Because the US government is afraid of Boeing? Mark Forkner needs to be tarred and feathered for the frat-boy attitude he wore throughout the entire debacle. And Boeing execs need to be run out of Dodge. All of ‘em. The honor and reputation of America is in the hands of these and other global players who are, as we speak, engaged in the same kind of deceptive, manipulative BS that Boeing got caught doing. All because profit has become not only the most important factor of American business, but is very quickly becoming the ONLY one. Employees who qualify for government aid or insurance, or worse, those that don’t but just barely, contact employees, part-time, gig employees, and the intentional devaluation of American higher education all contribute to the massive profits of big business and the relentless growth of the American stock market. Yes, Boeing has a labor union. But none of the issues addressed in this film had anything to do with workmanship except as it may have been responsible in part for the over-cost and delays because Boeing is notoriously stingy with its workforce in terms of manpower and hours. I know a guy who’s worked at the Renton factory for almost 30 years and the way Boeing treats those guys is flat-out despicable. Like American Express and many other American behemoths, they lay off their workforce regularly to avoid expenses. During these layoffs (whose duration is unknown) employees take unemployment insurance because everyone in America knows that UI is sufficient to keep up your health insurance costs AND the mortgage, car payment, food, and expenses for the kids (not sure how much it is in Washington, but in AZ it’s $260 a week max). Meanwhile, Dennis Muilenburg still sits on a couple of boards and has an estimated net worth of $100 million. Not bad for a heartless, lying POS, huh? See, in keeping with the new American business mission statement, it’s all about setting yourself up at the expense of everyone who works for you, making obscene amounts of money that should be in the pockets of the men and women who actually build those aircraft. Clearly, the guys in charge of design and production, the “leadership” Boeing cited as having failed, isn’t interested in anything else. If a cartel leader killed 300+ people and took enormous amounts of money doing it, he’d land in prison and face civil forfeiture. But a CEO? He “retires” at 56 with a fortune and nothing but time to spend it. Something is wrong with this picture.
So well stated and so true. If people knew this and was able to boycott(which it can't because of way it's set up) it might make a big enough dent in profits to effect change but that today will never happen. So it's passengers are playing Russian Roulette everytime they fly on one of Boeing's aircraft. They can take the hit on lawsuits and still make Billions so until like other countries, that make these accidents criminal, everything goes on like normal. Disgusting!
Welp, Milton would argue capitalism entails freedom and responsibility. From the shareholders perspective, Boeing failed them. Boeing represents the worst kind of crony capitalism, we need prison time for the executives and to shut this company down. Set a damn precedent. There is no incentive to be "moral".
It's all about leverage. A drug cartel leader does not supply the government with anything it needs so he does time for the crime and boosts the careers of prosecutors in the process. Boeing can materially pull the plug on national defense so fast it ain't even funny and therein is the leverage. Not only did the FAA delegate oversight to Boeing, they DOJ informally delegated justice to Boeing as well. Forkner and Muhlenberg should have had to stand trial for criminal negligence. I may have missed it, but so far this has not happened. As a retired military avionics technician I never heard of a single data input to a flight control system on a passenger carrying aircraft before this. Redundant systems are the norm in aircraft design since the 1950s and practically a religious commandment, something a Boeing engineering team and CEO must have been aware of since they pioneered this best practice for decades. News articles mentioned that the single AOA input was only for the MAX model offered to airlines in less wealthy nations. In my opinion the single AOA was a conscious cost cutting decision to enable additional sales just as not mentioning MCAS in the first place was to obviate pricey simulator training. AOA transmitters are pretty tricky to align correctly to begin with and the correct position for each transmitter is unique to each aircraft. It's only a matter of time before someone misaligns one. In most other aircraft models, AOA is an informational indicator only for pilots to monitor, thus tying it in to auto flight control systems, was a pretty novel and risky engineering decision that was probably identified through a risk analysis and then overruled by a cost analysis.
Its actually.00675% 2.5billion is only .00675% of 370 billion Its well below 1% in fact its less than .5% its minuscule to the point of might as well be 0 nada nothing
All of this can be summed up with: don't put accountants in charge of an engineering organization, especially when the thing being engineered can kill people.
and don't move the company HQ from near the factory floor, near where the engineers are, halfway across the company to Chicago, b/c your board president likes the Chicago Lyric Opera.
I'm an engineering and Ethiopian too for that fact. But engineers are held to a greater degree than contractors and manufactures. Everyone is ready to blame the Engineers, but not a single person wants to feel responsible.
@@Ariadne76-k3d just because you don’t make decisions doesn’t mean you don’t do mistakes. Everyone makes a mistake, and is responsible to a degree. People love to blame, Engineers, Doctors and so on. But when you think about it in real life any person that work in that particular projects or process is responsible. Including accounts, pilots, engineers, CEO’s, marketing, accounting, etc. Stop externalizing faults and errors to a specific person.
RIP to everyone who passed due to the obvious negligence of Boeing and the FAA. Condolences to their families. And especially the pilots who valiantly tried to save their craft.
It should surprise no one that the leaders of corporate America is filled with these evil doers. They are and have been only interested in one thing and that's the bottom line. These evil entities have lost most, if not all, of their humanity and souls to enrich their own coffers and those of their share holders. The public interest and safety has no meaning and no relevance to them.
Many CEO's are genuine psychopaths who have zero concern for anyone but themselves. This is how they get to the top, by shitting on everyone around them for their own benefit and seeing nothing wrong with it. This in fact has been proved by psychiatrists.
They weren't "evil" you idiot. Stop letting your emotions cloud your ability to see fact. Was the process sloppy? Yes. Were the executives negligent and driven by profits? Yes. But, at the end of the day (and as is the case with pretty much every crash related to design flaws), it took a perfect combination of wrong events for these disasters to happen. Remove any single factor (including the piss poor safety record of Lion Air and the maintenance issues that they ignored), and they wouldn't have happened. They used software to ensure the plane would not need a new certification which ON PAPER is actually not a bad idea. Of course, they lacked the foresight to see what combination of events could have led to these crashes. Boeing (and the airlines with their poor pilot training and safety records) are certainly to blame, but nobody here was "evil"
yea and that's how more regulation get put into place. big companies will know of a problem and not worry about it because they have the mind set of how much will it cost to fix Vs. how much will it cost to keep people quiet if something does happen. and alot of the time its cheaper for them to just take the hit then to fix the issue.
I think most people miss the point. Corporations are like machines, like robots, whose only mission in life is to increase profits and shareholder value. They don't care about safety or people. They care about making money. The big circus in front of Congress was a complete and total waste of time; with all the families, and all the tears. All this meant nothing to the CEO. He is just a human face on that corporation... which then fires him. Regulation is the only thing that can keep a corporation in check. But when the regulators (FAA) and certain Congressmen are in bed with the Airlines, this is what you get.
WHISTLE BLOWERS IN AMERICA DESTROY THEIR JOB PROSPECTS AND STAND TO LOSE THEIR ALL, TO SAVE INNOCENT PASSENGER LIVES. THIS IS WRONG. THIS IS TERRIBLY WRONG. DESTROY CORPORATE HUBRIS AND GREED. SAVE OUR SOCIETY. OUR CITIZENS LIVES MATTER
Mark Forkner should be ashamed of himself. He didn't behave like a chief pilot, he behaved like a corporate ladder climber trying to improve his career.
This is a problem deeply entrenched in U.S thinking. Me first and everybody else last. U.S executives are sociopaths and many of them probably do stuff that would shock all of you. Boeing is also part of the military industrial complex so they feel protected by their power and influence.
This is exactly like the shuttle Challenger blowing up after launch. The engineering staff at Thiokal did not want to fly because of freezing temps and the nearly assured failure of the o-rings to seal. There had been evidence of o-ring damage from thrust blow-by on a previous flight where temps were much higher. NASA pushed to have the engineers change their recommendations. RUSH TO LAUNCH is an excellent documentary on what happened.
20 years ago, my wife and 3 yr. old son were on a Boeing 737 from Atlanta to BWI. As we approached the runway to land, a strong cross-wind from an impending storm caused us to loose lift. The plane dropped in elevation and banked to the left, into the wind, to regain lift, narrowly missing trees below the left wing. We rerouted to Virginia to land. We all deboarded and met with the pilot. He looked like Captain Kangaroo. Friendly full face, grey hair. He was asked where this ranked on his aircraft scares. He said, it's the closest I have ever came to crashing an airliner. That is all I needed to hear. Never again was I afraid to fly, until I watched this documentary.
After working at Boeing for 16 years and seeing what happened when Boeing botched the purchase of McDonald Douglass was beginning of end to Boeing. The inside joke was Mc D bought Boeing with its own money. They went from a family atmosphere and do it right first. We had both destructive and non destructive testing of all systems to pure computer modeling approval. McD led Boeing also pushed to outsource key Mfg outside company for profits. I left in 2014, sold all my stock shortly after
@@smar5812 In my Childhood and Teenage years Boeing was the best Aircraft maker. 707 was a revolution i flew from London to everywhere with 707s. Truly great Aircraft. Boeing unfortunately has been sinking slowly. 737 had the market on its own but arrival of Airbus as a rival instead of giving them an incentive to build better and improve they got cocky and thought they were indestructible but the time proved them totally wrong. Airbus in a short space of time sold record number of A319-A320 and A320 Neo A321 Neo nowadays added failure of Max 8 to this Boeing lost the market they solely owned. I was waiting for Russian MC to hit the market slowly but Airbus is playing the game so clever I cant see anyone rivalling them for a long while..Shame that Russian MC in right hands would have replaced 737 as Airbus Rival. Now with the whole world are against them its a big blow for an up and coming lovely design MC .
@@lnr243 Not to forget that the CEO responsible for the MCAS crime (Muilenberg 2015 - 2019, so the crime must have started under the CEO before him) also was at the helm during the bungled negotiations with Bombardier (and also the Brazilian producer that is in the same niche as Bombardier). Boeing pissed off the national gov. of Canada, the province of Qebec that heavily subsidized the new C series of Bombardier, a lot of Canadian citizens and of course the company Bombardier. And since Qebec had sunk so much subsidies into the development they needed to get a partner, and Boeing trying to bully them drove them right into the arms of Airbus. (The third alternative would have been China. Well - not really). Airbus was not too stupid to see that the C-series (expensive as it was to develop, but it did not cost the money of Airbus) was a gem with a lot of potential for the future (somewhat larger planes are possible and they have emergency clearance approval for more seats than they currently use, so they could pack more seats in the already existing planes). And thanks to bully Boeing they got a 50,1 % share of the company. Leave it to incompetent overpaid Boeing management to seize defeat from the jaws of victory. the smaller modell of the C series (I think Airbus 220 series it is called now) has fewer seats compared to a 737 or A320 (but there is not much difference) and the same range as the 737 Max, also thanks to the highly efficient engines. Plus it is developed to cope with remote airports and shorter runways. Boeing was shocked when Bombardier sold 75 of the C series to Delta airlines - they expected Delta would buy their 737 MAX (this was in 2016 before the crashes). So they sued Bombardier - for unfair practices and selling at too low prices while being subsidized. (a bit rich coming from Boeing). They lost that case btw. And managed to piss off Canada, and missing out on a good opportunity to get a newly developed aricraft that does not need a questionable software fix to be able to integrate energy efficient turbines (they are even better than Airbus 320 or 737 Max). After that (or shortly before that) Airubs had something going on with the company of Brazil, there they also retreated suddenly from the negotiations. So now Brazil is also pissed at Boeing.
I worked in Boeing's wire shop when this happened. People knew exactly what happened before the FAA was even at the crash sight. No one wanted to point out the failure because at Boeing if you find a problem management immediately blames you for it.
After watching the Netflix downfall documentary, and comparing what happened to boeing dedication to quality with other large companies, I don't doubt you're experience at all.
“Slow reaction time (>10s) is unrecoverable”. Is it just me that find it’s absurd to expect someone to see an alarm with several unreliable readings and react the only exact right way within 10s else everyone will die?
Agreed. Inexcusable, biggest takeaway of this presentation. The dead are my main concern. The lack if scruples is the main problem that caused the deaths. STILL publicly blaming the pilots proves the point.
Rather psychopathic behavior to throw mud at the pilots who acted most professionally in their attempts to save their planes. He obviously has no problem causing further grief to the pilot's families... A real lack of empathy.
Because it is a good idea. If they say it was 100% their fault then they will get crushed by everyone. But if they say "third world country bad" then they will get even more support from republicans on congress
It's not. Unfortunately sociopaths are severely overrepresented when it comes to CEOs. Often times when one catches heat, companies already have a new one ready to go; who isn't any better.
More than three years after the loss of these 346 souls who are statistics to Boeing I still weep and listen to the end. Unbelievable and unbearable. 346! Two young and amazing captains. Families bereaved forever. I admire the mother talking about her daughter. The young man talking about his mum sister and nieces and nephew. We weep with you all.
As a teacher you learn the average student can't be trusted to correct their own work. The same applies to financial reporting, pharmaceuticals and engineering. Regulatory capture is one heck of a thing.
Yet there is a faction of this country that thinks regulation stifles business and economic growth... until it happens to them. An old helicopter pilot in Ypsilanti MI once told me that every single one of the rules and regulations in aviation, as trivial and arbitrary as they may seem to the layperson, are "written in blood". This documentary speaks volumes to the pervasive rot in corporate culture. Cut corners, lie, cheat, obfuscate... the idea that playing by the rules is for suckers and losers. F***ing pathetic.
This is standard. Most “professional” disciplines are self-regulated. This is a shame, since 1. professionals are people, and 2. most people are stupid. Hence, even in light conversation you will often hear doctors sticking up for other doctors, lawyers other lawyers, etc. Then again, it could be fear of professional reprisal (six degrees of separation and all that)….which again, does no service to the argument. Basically, professionals are fucking snobs. Everyone should get the same cubicle. How I get more respect than a ditch-digger because I sat on my lazy ass and read books is beyond me.
@svenm sandity an* standard* too* than* their* Are you trying to beat the mispelling record in this comment section or something? 😅 Also, what have punctuation marks ever done to you? 🤣
Actually the same applies to everything, it’s unfortunate but human beings are inherently deceitful on the best of days, slap a deadline and a tight budget on top of it and you now have a recipe for disaster. We currently live in a microwave society, if it can’t be done in the snap of the fingers people get all bent out of shape, we all need to take a major step back and understand the direction we’re heading toward because it’s not a good one, I’m sure that most people have noticed but quality is down drastically and cost is up dramatically.
@@maxpeck4154 I think it's over regulation that people fear. Think California style regulation, and you should have some idea of why certain people are leery of it.
I've watched a lot of documentaries on the Max, this is the best, most comprehensive mainstream documentary to date. Well done. I didn't realise that Colquhoun still maintained that US pilots would have managed differently. It's extremely disappointing that Boeing still won't accept the fact, that regardless of whether it was technically possible to save the flights or not, they created a system which took a completely normal, functioning and controllable aeroplane, and pointed it straight at the ground at low altitude. It's like throwing someone in a pit with a lion and then blaming them for not being able to climb out fast enough before being mauled to death.
@@annsheridan12 well that just makes it ok then I guess? How is it ethical to have proceeded selling an aircraft with a known fatal design flaw? People trust that these things are supposed to be safe.
@@terjeoseberg990 Also blame Congress. They told the FAA to delegate the review and approval to Boeing. You can't also expect the US Government to charge Boeing with criminality when the US Government themselves enabled Boeing to act in a criminal manner.
The ONE person who was brought up on criminal charges, Forkner, was somehow found not guilty by a jury. Unbelievable. Not a single person connected to Boeing went to prison.
Honestly that case was doomed from the start. Forkner is a miserable sob, but everything I've read suggests he didn't have the full picture of the issue. I'm sure he's guilty of something, but the charge in the case didn't really make sense. It's a shame he isn't in jail, but I think it's more a shame that the people at the top aren't.
The top brass, all the way to the board-they beat ultimate responsibility-but today prosecutors would never dare come down on good soldiers for the financial industry unless they knew for sure they didn’t one day want to be on the board themselves.
before you make such a statement, you should read the court proceedings. The case has zero substance,. and you use of caps is another sign that you're well .... ya know.
You've missed including one memo, back in 2016, of a company pilot saying to a colleague of his: _"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys"._
That was the Technical Pilots who were in the process of certifying the simulator who disagreed with other engineers on how one particular autopilot function was incorporated.
This video reappeared in my feed, now that the Alaska Airlines door plug blowout is in the news. It is sad that no one from Boeing is in jail for the deaths in 2019. I had already watched the documentary years ago. The recent incident shows that the culture of Boeing, to ignore defects and inspection concerns, has not changed. That is frightening for us consumers, who will no doubt be flying Boeing planes.
It's just gobsmacking that there is no redundancy in the AoA sensor. You would think there would be at least three on the plane so the MCAS processing centre could analyse all three and decide what to do. If one is different to the other two, go with the majority, anything had to be better than what they had.
That’s exactly how it works on the current generation of Airbus aircraft. They are fitted with three AoA sensors and the flight computers need to receive a signal from at least two of them simultaneously in order to activate the Flight Envelope Protection (a broadly similar system to MCAS, except it’s function is to ensure the aircraft does not exceed safe flight parameters, rather than make the aircraft fly like an older version of the company’s products so that airlines don’t have to spend money training flight crews properly!)
Every critical system in a plane is supposed to have at least one pathway of redundancy, why that sensor didn't count as one is huge failure. Not just because of MCAS but of how important anti stall systems are, its not something that should ever be unreliable.
True. Its ridiculous to put a critical system relying on a single point of failure. What were the engineers thinking? However, even redundant system is not entirely fool-proof. For example, XL Airways 888 has two out of the three AOA sensor frozen and inoperative, however the logic decided to vote the only operative one out. Computers then find out the AOA data wasn't matching other indications thus placing the whole plane into FULL manual mode (DIRECT LAW), with a USE MAN PITCH TRIM warning on the PFDs. Unfortunately the pilot didn't noticed that, and due to the stalling test they were performing, before the plane was in direct law the pitch trim was set to extreme nose up position, where you can't push the plane down without using pitch trim. This is where pilot training comes into hand.
Two crashes. It daunts me at how a *Multi-million* dollar company had to rush this plane through certification just so it could compete with it's "rival".
Got that same feeling. Its all about damage control. They dont want to admit it was 100% their fault because that would be terrible for their stock, investers and buyers of those planes...
exactly, by him saying that american pilots would be able to pull out of that scenario is just biased i mean no matter who you are and no matter what country you live in, the pilots should be very professional and know what to do because of the training.
As an engineer, this type of thing is my worst fear in the profession. The bean counters and the extreme capitalists are always looking to cut costs, compress schedules, maximize profits. While these are noble initiatives, to provide the most cost efficient product, as quickly as possible, if they are pushed too far, they pose a risk to the welfare of the public, due to increased risk of product failure, in a catastrophic level, just like what happened with the Boeing planes. We are in a constant push back situation with the owners and a money men in numerous industries, but ultimately, we cannot control what they choose to approve or proceed with, even when it is the engineers direct recommendation to not do so, because of risk of hurt, harm, or danger to the general public. Rest easy to those who lost their lives, because people didn’t stand tall and do the right thing to prevent this kind of situation.
I don't know if its the extreme capitalists so much as the lazy capitalists if all they are capable of doing is cutting costs, either that or they're conmen capitalists who jack up profitability for a short time, stick a bunch of lies in their annual financial report for year or two until they get a big fat bonus & drop out. Anyhow, that was the warning about the behavior of a number shady people from a innovating business tycoon I used to work for.
Not just executives seeking profits, these pressures can come from all sorts of places. Just look at the Challenger disaster, where government pressure for frequent space shuttle launches was a major contributing factor.
Keep electing Republicans then we keep getting exciting documentaries about people dying. Remember 9/11. Iraq. Machine gun mass murders. Criminal plane crashes.
Actually, I think this documentary tries to pin the blame on a few individuals, and is designed to generate a lot of hate against them. Investigation-wise, most of this information is widely available. So, no, not a very good one.
Cannot agree. The nightly news knew and reported this within days. No deep, long term investigation was needed, only bravery needed was to push past the corporate cover up.
and biden is a clueless, liberals are bad people and 54% of all violent crime in the US is committed by less than 8% of the population. life is rough. Get a helmet
Boeing's indifference towards knowingly installing and concealing a system that would kill people has got to be criminal. And then blaming the pilots by claiming there was a simple solution that their own test pilots know was not that straightforward. Another career pilot who also has a YT channel explained that even understanding what was happening in the moment would not present itself as an obvious runaway trim in the same way the 737NG would. There would be several different alarms and warnings immediately after flaps are retracted and MCAS was designed to operate for 9 seconds, turn off, then reactivate after 5 seconds if it still sensed an out of trim condition. So this would initially make the pilot believe they had rectified the trim problem after the initial MCAS nose down command, but they still have all sorts of alarms going off, the control yoke noisily vibrating etc essentially causing a lot of confusion. This basically means the pilots forget the plane's engines are at full takeoff power and combined with MCAS nosedives causes the plane's speed to increase very rapidly. And all this is happening in a matter of seconds at the busiest phase of flight, very close to the ground. By the time you cut out electric trim, it can be physically impossible to manually trim the plane. Most pilots who were tested in a simulator and had the flight recreated could not recover, and they were not facing the mental pressure of being in an actual and unexpected life-or-death situation. Boeing made a HORRIBLE and stupid decision. Their whole plane was supposed to make them huge profits, but by compromising safety I bet this plane has so far cost them more money than anything else they ever built.
Absolutely correct. A system like MCAS needs a whole section in the flight training manual, and an easy to access over-ride. Not to mention it should have had a display on screen that tells the pilots it's activated. I'm certain if the pilots saw on their displays "MCAS ACTIVE" as the plane takes a nose-dive they would've probably known to take manual control.
If you put say 20 US pilots through this, I'll bet a few might save the plane, but most would not. It is ridiculous to say that any US pilot would have saved the plane.
No not prison here in America. He should be sentenced to go to africa and be used as a slave for the rest of his life. Let him dig graves for those who die of ebola or malaria. Let him dig ditches for sewage. Let him pick through the giant mounds of garbage for things that can be recycled. Make him clean the bed pans of the sick and infirm. Even those activities are too good for him. Seize all of his assets and sell them at the highest price obtainable then give that to the families of the victims. Let his family lose their big houses and expensive cars etc. I can not think of anything bad enough to equal the pain of those who lost loved ones in those crashes
I don't think so. After all, their stock price imploded after the crashes. I think this is simply a case in which management and engineering failed see an issue with the MCAS system. In other words, they were just incompetent.
Great documentary, but you missed an important beat. The pilot who flew the simulated crash flight reported that the MCAS was turned back on because the manual controls were simply impossible to move. The reasons for that are partly a matter of physics, that is, the weight of air on the control surfaces was great and increasing the more the plane dived towards the ground. This means that the manual system was never going to work in a crisis situation, and it would only ever need to be activated in a crisis situation. Engineers at Boeing must have known that this would likely be the case, and I would be willing to bet that Pasternak has documentation on it. So it would have been a good idea to include a bit of discussion of the physics of flight as part of the discussion in order that the viewer could more easily understand just why the manual backup was most likely never going to work. One other beat that could have stood a bit more discussion, is the sort of racist assumption that pilots in the third world are somehow inferior to US pilots. At that point in the movie, you might have brought back the pilot who flew the simulator to emphasize that the pilots were professional and did everything that they were supposed to do.
Just keep ignoring those throttles that were never pulled back from take off power and your narrative will be fine. While you're at it ignore the stick shaker as well, just like the PIC was doing when he said flaps up. Less than 400 hour pilot in the right hand seat is not racist, it's a fact. Doesn't mean it's his fault (if anything he was more situational aware than the pic, he called "stab trim cutout" anyway).
@@Milkmans_Son they were close to the ground without anti-stall, unless they were trained in the MCAS failure and how to fly a pane without MCAS, to respond by reducing throttle is probably not even in their consideration. Boeing put a bandaid on a fatal design flaw and hid it from the pilot without giving the pilots the proper training. Their CEO and chief engineers of the 737 Max should be in prison.
@@awdrifter3394 You have no idea what you're talking about. "trained in the MCAS failure and how to fly a pane without MCAS" makes no sense--they knew how to fly without it because that's how they always fly. The throttles should have been pulled back long before they started having problems--it's how they were trained and how they had done it a million times before. They forgot to do it this time.
@@Milkmans_Son it makes perfect sense to anyone who is not trying to deliberately confuse the issue. The change of the engine changed the handling of the 737 Max when compared to the 737 NG. The MCAS change the plane's handling to mimic that of a 737 NG and prevent stall. With the trim power being cut, the pilot now have to fly a plane with handling that they are not trained for and without any stall protection. In that scenario, it's not reasonable to expect the pilots to pull back the throttle.
Would be truly heavy indeed! Reminds me of the hymn "Come Ye Disconsolate"...in the chorus it's says so beautifully "Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal"! But it truly is sick beyond belief that companies are allowed to get away with such wickedness, I sincerely hope these men repent of their transgressions before they close their earthly life, if not they will not escape the just judgment of God! 🙏🏽
I worked for Boeing for 20 years. I absolutely loved my job. I was proud to be an employee. However once I found out that the company I loved cared more about making money than customer safety…..I quit. I didn’t want to be a part of that and there I was; a part of it.
@ 27:22 While Mark Forkners suggestion to remove MCAS from the manuals was abhorrent, it was actually the FAA who approved his request and allowed Boeing to do as it wanted. Both entities are at fault and BOTH are responsible for the loss of 350 innocent lives. The fact that these entities aren't being charged with manslaughter is unfathomable!
Around minute 23…”under the impression the MCAS was a relatively benign system, the FAA agreed to delegate it.” This makes me worry about whether or not the FAA was equipped to even determine what they should and shouldn’t delegate and makes me think that even if they hadn’t delegated, they would have certainly lacked the technical knowledge to be able to identify the design flaws.
@@sourabhjain9075 they turned it back on. They turned it off, got the plane under control and then turned it back on. So sad, if they had just landed all would have been fine. Over-reliance on autopilot is a real issue.
@@janestevens3379I felt my heart drop in some turbulence right after take off in 2021 after knowing I was on a MAX. I made it out alive! LoL this whole this was a complete debacle, start-to-finish. Started at the Sales desk when they promised, in WRITING, "NO PILOT TRAINING or We'll throw large quantities of money at you" I hope Boeing can turn this around, but they aren't the only game in town in Seattle anymore.
There were cases of MCAS malfunctioning during this time where pilots were able to avoid crashing. The stories of the passengers are hair-raising, for sure! 😱
"In 2020, Boeing had a historically bad year, as the company reported a $12 billion loss and laid off 30,000 workers. At the same time, Calhoun earned $21.1 million in compensation."
I have never understood why a CEO gets millions in bonus's when he's damn near put the company in bankruptcy. If I cost the folks I work for millions of dollars, I know damn well I'm not getting a bonus, I'm losing my job.
Their own white, American, airforce trained, test pilot crashed, even with an early version of MCAS that didn't have as much freedom to pitch trim the plane as the production version did. But Boeing still have the fucking audacity to blame the "foreign" pilots.
Except they didn't. This documentary has several misleading statements and half truths of it's own in order to make it more dramatic. But if you read the statement they put up on screen was that IF the pilots didn't react in a timely manner(>10 seconds) it could be catastrophic, not it was always catastrophic.
@@TheLightningII React and do what? An undocumented feature is pushing your plane down violently, but there's nothing you can do. You're at low altitude. It's harrowing
@@anonymousarmadillo6589 Notice that your horizontal stabilizer is running away and apply the proper memory item. Or simply trim using the switches on the yoke. MCAS was a massive failure but it's far from unstoppable.
@@TheLightningII Theoretically, if you put 100 US pilots in that situation (without warning), many of them would react quick enough to save the plane, but many would not. If the plane were at 30,000 feet, even foreign pilots would have enough time to figure it out, but at only a few thousand feet after takeoff, it is a roll of the dice even with US pilots. There is just too much going on. As the documentary mentioned, it is not just turning off power to the stabilizer; you then have to manually manipulate the stabilizer trim with only seconds to get it right.
I can say that Forkner killed 346 people because he dismissed the idea of pilot training and even called the pilot stupid and idiot! now we can see who was the stupid and idiot!
As a system software developer having thirty-years of experience, I found CEO Calhoun appraisal appalling, representing a reckless culture at Boeing. Given the MCAS managed a critical flight-control surface, it obviously should have been man-rated from the very beginning, containing failsafe-logic that would have compelled the input from a second AoA and an AoA comparator to ensure MCAS did not put the plane in a perils position. Additionally, giving MCAS the authority to override the full-elevator input was also questionable. If the objective was to hide MCAS, its design should have been bulletproof to the nth-degree, exploring all points-of-failure, examining all boundary-conditions.
PBS: Thank you. Thank you for making these videos. Thank you for speaking truth to power. The work PBS does is invaluable, and I will continue to do my part as a sustaining member as well as making yearly donations. … Thank you ….
My late dad used to tell me, there is an amazing luxury airplane, and its brand is Boeing, 737 to be exact. Whenever we saw an airplane in the sky, I always asked my dad if it was a Boeing 737, and the next day I told my friends at school that I saw a Boeing flying. Since the Lion Air accident, I always check the detail of my flight before I buy the ticket and choose whatever that's NOT Boeing. A great memory tarnished. Boeing's current management should be ashamed. You bet I will tell my kids a very different story than what I heard from their grandpa.
I love to fly, still always look up at planes and always preferred airlines that used Boeing, particularly domestic ones. But watching this I'm reminded how fast corruption can creep in to a degree of being criminal and damage a storied history.
Well, the US soldiers in Iraq who killed civilian press and immediately after that killed the civilians trying to help the wounded as seen on the "collateral murder" video weren't put on trial, either. 100% proof of warcrimes, but not even an official investigation... The guy who released the video to the public (Julian Assange) is still on trial, though because of "espionage". The people steering the drones which killed civilians including several children just a few days ago in Afghanistan aren't put on trial, either. Whistleblowers released a few years ago that around 90% of the victims of drone strikes are civilians. This has been going on for decades now. The people who are being targeted don't get any trial, just instant death penalty. The perpetrators - no consequences, except for reporters trying to talk about it. G.W. Bush provably lied about WMDs in Iraq, so he started an illegal war (under international law) that killed hundreds of thousands. No consequences except he gets praised on some talk show "Ellen". Oh and the Bush family was/is close friends with the Bin Laden family - when all airplanes were grounded shortly after the 911 attacks, the bin laden family members wanted to leave the country quickly and they got a special exemption and were allowed to leave. Bush also opened Guantanamo - a place where they torture people with various methods, e.g. water boarding - a practice that the Japanese used during WW2 and the US gave the death penalty to Japanese torturers who were water boarding. Now they love doing it themselves - no consequences. The US changed. By now it's an American tradition to reward the incompetent and the evil, especially leaders it seems - in case of Boeing here, the CEO got a 60 million dollar severance package. Nice, huh?
Just the Fact that the Plane is over 50 yrs. Old. Is the Red flag that is all you needed to Know. This is because a completely new Design of and Air Plane would require retooling most like a whole new Factory. And the Biggest contribution to this Catastrophe The Worker's Union. YES ALMOST AS bad As MCAS. You see What is the Union Job At Boeing. Not making Planes not in the Slightest. It's their Protecting Jobs Not From other People but By Robots. Boeings Fatal Flaw is not is MCAS it was the Beckon that allowed even Non Aviation experts to see their was something Terribly wrong at Boeing. What started the beginning of the End was The Worker Union for Employees of Boeing. I found interesting no one mentioned how odd or Way are the still Working with a plane 50 years yrs old. That's Because the Union is protecting Works Rights. 1st. No one has a right to a Job. It's a privilege and it's up to you to stay on top if your Field to keep that Job. But in a City Like Seattle Where unions are out their Protecting even someone lagging far behind in Their Skills & Knowledge level. Unions are Protecting the person's job no matter what the cost. If Boeing and I'm no fan of Boeing I'm a lockeed Martin guy. If Boeing wanted to modernize its Factories and bring in Robtics Unions wouldn strike. Or if the Were producing a whole new Plane like other manufacturers. Once again the would be threaten with a strike. So it's the Workers Unions Keeping things just Like they were back in 1966. Combining all this with Competition with a brand new Planes and designs. They were forced to Car a new plane and old plane With new BANDAIDS. hen you Drive tomorrow count how many 1966 Cars you see on the road. 1 if your lucky. And I bet none of you would old be buying a New Car that Is still being built on the Same Assembly line. With brands to keep up with the Jones. When the Test Pilots told Boeing hey the plane handles poorly. THE RIGHT to have done was. We need to scape this plane and make a new modern Plane from the ground up. In stead The took The MCAS a trade an true technology that worked great in there Jet Fighter's. But with little if any test of it working properly in Bug Commercial Airlines Clearly the Straw the bike the Camels Back. So you see the Devil really is in the details. It's the Unions that refuse to Budge. That ultimately killed many more people I'm sure and few ever even see it. From Boeing, Unions, Employees, FAA to the Government . They are all guilty. As well as the Left in this Country. They Think Healthcare is a Right. They Think their Job is a Right. They Right Housing is a right. I will tell you the only rights you have are on a piece of paper called the Constitution & The bill of Rights...But all you Make believe Rights are getting us all Killed.
I'm generally always upset when non-pilots tend to blame pilots. In general, the pilots did everything they could have conceivably done to try and save it; unfortunately, the best someone can do isn't always enough to save lives.
@@KeepMoving4wrdthat itself should be criminal. ‘ keep flying your little plane because we don’t think it’ll crash again and kill everyone for a year and a half’.
Stefan Rusu yes. You are incorrect. Will Lyman is THE voice for Frontline. You can hear him also on BMW commercials and Dos Equis Beer “The most interesting man in the world” commercials.
I've been flying airplanes since 1993, no flight instructor ever held back information about the aircraft I was training on. In fact they always let me know of ANY bad habits that aircraft might have. Why would top professionals & CEO's at Boeing not make their pilots aware of the MCAS software and how to deal with or disable it in an emergency? I found these events with Boeing & the deaths of the passengers on both flights to be the most unconscionable and unforgiveable I've ever witnessed! Someone at Boeing should have gone to prison for these crimes! R.I.P. All Victims. May God assuage the grief of all family members involved.
Because that would be admission of faulty product and would disable their "faulty pilot" premise. They also mention at around 15:00 not wanting to pay for training pilots.
I'm retired Boeing, and although I expected a crash or accident on another model, I was not surprised by this. Luckily I was already retired and had gotten rid of my stock. It's really a shame, it was a top company to be a part of at one time.
@@markaoslo5653 any. all. just put on a blindfold and throw a dart. look at all the tools and debris they are still finding in boeing aircraft. made in usa has major drawbacks. pride is the main one.
With the HQ moved to Chicago in 2001, outsourcing, and moving work to South Carolina, the local pride and culture for quality is gone. Yea, it's a shame the execs gutted the company. At least the area is now defined by tech, and the local economy is not reliant on Boeing.
I keep hearing how Boeing was an excellent engineering company before McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money and infiltrated the company with their management structure.
"Investigate deletion of MCAS nomenclature." By the far the most damning, craven aspect of this whole documentary. They are essentially saying, "Let's just stop talking about it or informing people, maybe?" 🤷♀️ The quintessence of corporate immorality.
Yep that was disgusting. I loved how they (frontline) put that near the beginning, too. That sort of finally signaled to me that this was a top-down failure, and the test of the doc could sort of “work off of” that bombshell. Pretty nice structuring of Frontline, especially for an hour long episode (which I generally think are harder to structure due to the increased importance of every minute).
The more that companies put bottom line and satisfying greed of shareholders over safety of employees and customers … the more we will continue to see this happening - not as spectacularly or tragically as in a plane crash - but in thousands of small ways involving lack of action just to “keep costs down”.
And right to the very end, after the new CEO blames the former CEO, he blames....yes....the pilots. And we all know what he would have said had the Times granted his request that it be off the record.
And he insinuates that the 'foreign' pilots are naturally inferior. Typical. When these foreign pilots land, they immediately take a donkey home to their mud huts and talk with their relatives with drums. Typical exceptionalism.
@@todd3205 That's what I was getting at, Todd. If you know *anything* about commercial aviation - and the CEO of Boeing should - you'd know that airline pilots are an apex class of talent and training more so in Africa and Asia than here. Thus the assertion is not just racist, but wrong.
I heard the name Ali Bahrami here in this video and I remembered this documentary from Al Jazeera on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. He was the same man who signed off FAA certification for the 787, which has its own manufacturing quality issues as a result of Boeing outsourcing parts production to third-party partners to save costs and perform final assembly at a plant where the workforce seemingly lacked quality. Boeing also dismissed concerns that were raised internally regarding these issues, same as they did here for the 737 MAX.
Let's be honest it boils down to corporate greed and not listening to the engineering function because it was going to cost them an extra buck. shameful on Boeing's part.
To all those who are still defending Boeing even after watching this documentary, let me ask you this: what if this had been a Chinese company instead of Boeing? Would you still be defending the manufacturer or would you blame that on incompetent Chinese engineering?
The recounting of the Ethiopian flight was gut wrenching, especially when the American Airlines pilot said "THE KID GOT IT RIGHT" with tears in his eyes. This is a shining example of why I will NEVER accept that industries should not be regulated. If plane manufacturers will attempt to cut corners in safety-critical systems, then ANYONE in any other industry will also want to cut corners. Unbiased and independent regulation is absolutely critical and essential.
@@handyallen that's true yes but making some product doesn't mean you want high stock price . But American managers are after sales and stock price not after quality anymore
Corporate greed Plus government incompetence and lack of oversight equals people die! Corporate heads will never be held accountable. Look at the opioid epidemic, tobacco etc the Congress just can't get away from the feeding trough. Let us not forget that Trump stalled the FAA from grounding the 737 Max because he thought he was best friends with the CEO at the time. I guess cuz Trump owns a broken down 757 that makes him an expert on aviation especially boeing.
An update to this award-winning investigation with The New York Times into the design, oversight and production of Boeing’s 737 Max jet is available for streaming here: th-cam.com/video/Z76YpCz9N2Y/w-d-xo.html
Boeing whistle-blower found dead of 'suicide'. Coincidence? I think not.
The fatal flaw was pushing D. E. I.
@@delanorrosey4730let’s not forget Boeing has been the military industrial complex’s little darling since wwii.
"Boeing has an accountant as their CEO while Airbus has a test flight engineer as their CEO. I think that speaks volumes about each company."
Because since Ronald Alzheimer became president in 1981, the goal was RIP OFF (AKA, make money by pump and dump). When a bean counter is in charge of engineering, that is when Challenger STS28, and Boeing Max fall out of sky.
I've made a little over 100k off Boeing in the past 20 months. It's awesome.
I won’t fly on a Boeing anymore
@@andrewhatton1606 For what it's worth, their older aircraft (all non-MAX 737 planes, the 747, the 757, the 767, the 777, and the 787) are perfectly safe and up-to-date on safety features. The 737 MAX is the only plane that still has problems.
@@Clark-Wang it is I will Admit that.
The fact that no one is facing charges over this is beyond me.
We live in a two-tiered society. There are those of us below the law, and those above the law.
Check the reports Boeing are reported to be agreeing to a massive payment and Mark Forkner is expected to be facing charges.
Money
@@tonywilson4713 des rrrrrzjglll
@@adnaneajroudi7856 What???
I think it was Sully who said something like "no matter how much a pilot trained or how many hours flown they cannot compensate for a design flaw".. I think this was a great example. RIP.
Sully's plane got downed by birds, it had nothing to do with design.
Mcas wasn’t a flaw,lack of training and system knowledge absolutely was.
sully would have stalled and crashed if the fly by wire system didn't override his control inputs... just sayin. He isn't the hero everyone thinks. the flight data recorder shows it very clearly that what he was trying to do would have made the situation far worse if the aircraft had let him.
@@spaghetti9845 It wasn't the computers that put the plane successfully down in the river.
@@jimdavis6833 The only thing Sully ever discussed was his landing on that river. Nothing else ever. He wasn't an aviation safety consultant at all.
They murdered these pilots and then blamed them for incompetency. What's more is that I immediately bought their story. Thank you, Frontline, for putting me to shame and reflection.
Im a 737 Pilot coming up on 20 years of flying. I just wanted to say, my hats off to the crew of Lion Air, who did an outstanding job fighting to save that aircraft, and for doing everything right that day for their passengers. Much respect to my fellow pilots, and rest in peace.
Thank you for saying that.. I have the upmost respect for all pilots and do believe that there are too many air crash investigations that bias towards pilot error. That being said it is true that some pilots are not as experienced these days at actually flying a plane rather they are more and more becoming software managers in the cockpit. It is sad that this is happening. Automation of something as critical as flying a passenger aircraft should be no more than a tool not the main source of operating the aircraft and it's only getting worse. Now with the bigger Jumbo Jets like the A-380 with a capacity to fly over 600 passengers and crew, it seems ludicrous to me that this plane has more automation than any other in the World if I'm not mistaken. Boeing is so guilty of so many transgressions against society with their clever little lies they really should be penalized more harshly than a measly 2.5bill. settlement. People should have been charged with murder in because of their deletion of MCAS from the flight manuals. God bless all those who've lost their lives for the purpous of monetary gain without regard for human life.
BUT THEY STILL ALL DIED
@@jessentacampcambe3363 He is talking about the flight the day before. The same plane was safely flown back because thr pilots did the proper procedure. The next day that same plane crashed different pilots.
How did MCAS got activated again in case of Ethiopian airlines..
@@sourabhjain9075 Mcas got activated bc a bad AOA sensor gave the flight computers bad info. there are two of them but mcas only uses only info from one AOA sensor at a time.
As a retired airline pilot with 27,000 hours on various Boeing's including the B737 I would like to believe that put in the same scenario when I first noticed a major and irrational movement of the Stabiliser Trim I would have immediately de powered the electric Stab Trim and manually re trimmed prior to entering a high speed condition, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
This aside for Boeing to put a new system on a jet that has the ability to aggressively manipulate the flight controls and is predicated on a single sensor whilst not informing either the pilots or the airlines who operated them is in my view a criminal act and has damaged my view of Boeing irreparably.
The Lion Air captain did recognize it and was maintaining control of the plane. MCAS is disabled when the flaps are extended, when it first started going off after flap retraction he put them back out. MCAS was disabled for many minutes after that until for reasons the investigation never looked into the flaps were retracted again. After that he kept manually retrimming the plane keeping it under control. It wasn't until he transferred control to the FO that the plane went out of control. The FO just sat there and did nothing.
@ boeingdriver29 how much does air speed impact the ability to manually trim/ re trim the stabilizer? As well, on take off, is air speed something that can be greatly reduced in this scenario? Because it seems to me (totally unfamiliar with the subject) that reducing air speed in order to gain manual control of the trim wheel may have been a key element to safely landing the aircraft back at the departing airport. Curious to see your response, or of those with experience.
@@wit2pz It impacts the ability to manually trim greatly. The faster you are going the heavier the forces get. In both of the Max accidents airspeed control by the crews was awful, they left the autothrottles in the takeoff power position the whole flights. They never tried to slow down and never took full manual control of the plane. Terrible airmanship.
@@pyromcr fair enough, but it begs the question why did the pilot who said "the kid did exactly the right thing" not make mention of disabling the auto throttles in takeoff power positions as they went through the analysis of the black box data? I feel for both crews in these scenarios, which is why I wonder of more could've been done. In accordance with the report, 4 seconds of reaction proved to be significantly bad with pilots who had the extensive training on the simulator. 10 seconds proved catastrophic. Criminal negligence definitely plays a big part in this, and it seems to me that several of the folks making the decisions should be serving prison sentences!
@@wit2pz Like everything to do with the media, if they want to push a narrative they aren't going to interview people who aren't going to say what they want. Objective journalism is dead.
Thanks to that pilot for recognizing the foreign pilot they tried to blame. “That kid got it right.” He probably got some hate from that statement. That’s real character.🙏🏽
He was used to the corruption and saw it for what it was
Somebody should bring a class action suit representing all non American pilots flying the 737 against Boeing for defamation. Boeing is still trying to say the plane is good enough and its the foreign pilots fault. They wont stop their defamation till a dollar cost is attached to it. Say 10000 dollar damages per pilot they have defamed. I am guessing there are about 20000 pilots flying 737s all over the world. So a 200 million settlement should be enough to stop Boeing from lying.
37:27 is the moment of the quote, the Ethiopian pilot team did what they had to do, and fought until the end
@@Defender78that's nice.
Pilots are always blamed and it is nothing new and that's just a fact if you saw the sully movie you can get a hint of how much the authorities tries to blame a pilot
Listening to that Pilot talk about his realization when the First Officer made the right call and was still doomed - man that always gets me. He is an excellent communicator and his emotion is overwhelming even as he manages to keep himself composed.
Which makes American planes stupid
@@Daparaywhat? 😂
"The kid got it right" it breaks my heart man.
My god,this really hurt.100% vindication.The pursuit of profit,and to be #1 is a fatal flaw.
@@WillS-pl8wg true
Same.
and that guy is a hero if he hadn't done that Boeing would just deflected blame again until someone got it right.
And nobody was held accountable. So very sad.
I'm a pilot, and I have a cynical saying: The world's important decisions are always made by people who don't have to live with them. This is very true in airlines. The problem here is that runaway trim is so rare, actual recovery has been lost on many. In fact, the trim wheels are smaller than they used to be in the 737. I can't speak for the reasons, but it's obvious that this reduces leverage you have to fix it. The fact is, pilots should have been familiar with how to handle runaway trim. But the manual only goes as far as turning it off. When you turn those wheels, you're turning a jack screw that's over 100' behind you and it's much like the little crank jack you have in your car. Hard to use, but it gets the job done. But the further the trim has been allowed to move as well as the higher the airspeed, the harder it gets to turn. The only way out is to relieve the pressure you're applying to the elevator (and letting the nose just drop even further) to allow that wheel to turn, and then hope you can recover in time. Not ideal when you're close to the ground. Getting back to my first statement: MCAS was NOT enabled when the flaps were extended (as they are for takeoff) or the autopilot on. There is a lot going on after takeoff, and in most aircraft, the current feel of the plane changes quite a lot as flaps are retracted. In most aircraft, the pilot would counteract these changes and apply trim to compensate. The point is, with everything going on, the pilot flying is going to just keep flying and doing the normal thing until something triggers his brain that there's a problem. After an incident involving the E175 where runaway trim was caused by damaged wiring (that was quickly addressed), in our own E175 simulator I was given a surprise runway trim in level flight. It took me just over 3 seconds to recognize it and kill the system. After just that much time, I had to apply very heavy control forces to maintain level flight. And that plane has no physical trim wheel. So however far it goes is what you get to try to land with. Again, that was in straight and level flight with no other anomalies. When these crashes first happened, I was kind of Boeing's side in that, yeah, they should have recognized runaway trim and dealt with it accordingly. But after learning more about what was going on (both aircraft had various warnings and cautions flashing and blaring from takeoff), it is almost impossible to assume this wouldn't have happened. You get distracted trying to figure out what's going on. Then you look up again and think, oh I need to pay attention when you see the plane isn't going where you want. You correct it. Or try to, but something feels off... Is it the trim? It takes time under the best of circumstances. MAYBE some countries have better pilots than others, or at least better trained. But as far as I know, all countries require certification to fly large airplanes like this. And it is both Boeing's and the regulator's responsibility to ensure that the pilots are trained to a level that is necessary.
Idk why I typed such a long thing. This was a very good video on the subject. It was a rarely intelligent outside look at an industry that often causes confusion among laymen.
As a pilot, can you answer a simple question please? Why there is no such thing as 'free of assist flight mode' in the 737 max? I mean a special panic button that disables all the possible electronic flight control adjustments and interferences. They could just press the button and fix the trimming electronicaly with a tiny handle or a couple button pressed or whatever. Instead the only way to overcome a mad electronic assist is a complete electrical shut down and a freaking trim wheel.
And also, how does it come that the trimming adjustment is allowed to be that critical? I'd expect it's limited to a small part of the working range of the elevators, like 10 maybe 20 or 30 percents. Apparently the trimming has eaten the majority of the working angle so the manual pitching hasn't been working anymore? Am I wrong?
Also, what if you rollover the plane up side down with full pitch down (or pull off)? Will it fly to the ground or not?
Really appreciate hearing from someone who actually understands all the factors. Hearing some of the Reporter's points of view, speaking as if they know the interworking of flight and equipment, was painful. Thanks for being a rational voice in this!
Bravo...Bravo, Senor Richard on your reatime experience & synopsis.
"Every advancement in aviation, engineering, and medicine is demarcated one funeral at a time." - unknown
BA shifted out of an engineering company to financial engineering when Macair infected BA's mgmt & board.
Now that only 15% of BA's revenue come from the comm. aircraft division, I wouldn't be surprised if aircraft mfg. would be spun off and IPO'd.
Such is financial engineering in the USA.
Very well stated.
Compliments to you!
A single sensor failure being able to create a catastrophic event violates ALL principles of redundancy for which American aviation has been based on since at LEAST the late 50s.
The fact that this wasn't an end to Boeing as a company is absolutely beyond me!
Don't be naive. Airliner manufacturers ~= Defense Industry
Yea I’m pretty sure Boeing produces the b-52. They aren’t going anywhere.
rampant corruption between Boeing and the Congressmen
The leadership of company should be prosecuted for negligence
Yes, the British Comet exploded three times, and lost its place as a manufacturer. Boeing has two planes self destruct with passengers aboard, and then a fuselage fall off, and their share price is still competitive. That is a sign of a society that has lose its way.
The system wasn't designed to save people lives, but to save money by avoiding the process of the plane re-certification.
Also avoiding the cost of lost flight time of pilots if they required training to know about the MCAS.
Paweł siema
I get what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that MCAS WAS designed to assist the pilot to recover from a deep stall, so technically what you are alluding to is false. The flaw wasn’t the MCAS itself, but rather the design process of allowing a single input (in these 2 cases an erroneous input) to fire and continue to fire the MCAS and stabilizer trim to the down position.
@@markg7963 Pretty sure it has been well established via multiple sources that Boeing's principle reason for installing the software AND NOT TELLING THE AIRLINES AND THE PILOTS was so they could CLAIM it handled exactly like the previous version and so NOT require pilot re-training. Airbus were offering this on their competing claim and so, in order to secure a share of new sales, Boeing cut corners and lied about this feature. Whatever the system did or did not purport to do, the reason it was installed in the way it was and the reason they lied was to SELL MORE PLANES. This is not some kind of extrapolation, inference or opinion, verifiable from multiple credible sources and findings.
@@markg7963 yes should have had 3 sensors and ignored faulty one
Here after the 737 Max is grounded again after the Alaska airlines incident. RIP to all the victims of these crashes
Miraculously, the depressurized flight returned to PDX with no major casualties. Another wake up call about the inherent design flaws and reliance on substandard manufacturing from 3rd party Spirit.
It may have nothing to do with Boeing , although they are the easy target with money. This documentary gives me that vibe.
And by the looks of it, it seems that they also hid the fac t that cockpit doors were supposed to open during a rapid decompression. Blancolirio on youtube is amazing at explaining it
@@Alex_Coaster_Adventurer I think there is some confusion about these doors. The doors are never designed to open without a human operator engaging the mechanism. The doors are equipped with depressurization panels, either blow out or open up to allow rapid airflow to equalize the pressure during a depressurization event. They functioned as designed and maintained the integrity of the aircraft. But the depressurization was so sudden and rapid that they had to function or the bulkhead would have suffered damage.
@@NickKautzno, it demonstrated the main reason why those disasters happened: lazy, idiot and put profit to all. Instead of a well-trained software engineer working in a department or a team of engineers of their own, they choose contractors. The disaster of MCAS prolonged so much because it is separated to tens of packages, those be sold to few India software companies. But then those companies divided their package into hundreds of smaller packages and put those in trading network. The company that buy one of those smaller packages divided it to thousands of micro packages and sent to software programmer whose received a salary that barely keep them alive for a day if they complete that micro packages. The result was a clusterfuck of multiple program languages, commands, compiles and modules that engineer in Boeing or those companies bought the large packages knew how it worked. The same for the Alaska incident, instead of a well-trained engineer trained by Boeing, they choose the contractor and the contractor forgot to bolt down the door.
Wow, blaming the pilots whose trainings you prevented and still one of them got it right at one point and it didn’t work. Blaming pilots when all you did was fill your pocket without a care in the world for lives. That’s just evil.
and thats just how alot of the world is, money takes over and it is more important than peoples' lives. its really sad that its not all on how safe the plane is its how much profit we can get off this plane and if the safety is good then were good, its money over everything and thats for everything. sad sad world
All corporate companies
@@curiousme113 Just wait till you hear what government own companies do.
Except this happened at least five times who handled it successfully.
And that's what corp.America does, more money for their top directors, and little bit of safety and lack of proper training for their employees, in this case , both are to blame
Who’s here after the Alaska airlines incident
It came up automatically after watching blancolirio 😂
Not me, was here before
I'll take (Amtrak) anytime instead of flying, Thank god for ZOOM Video communications, I can do a Zoom company videos and NOT have to fly to certain areas for Conference Meetings. And now with the ICE STORM across thee country, I'm sure there are more ZOOM meeting if there is still electricity in those down right frozen areas of the U.S.
the al jazeera "broken dreams" docu explained the whole boeing issue quite well just fyi
Popped up in my feed.
Boeing blame Lion Air pilots for lack of training, and yet they themself trying to keep the training material out of pilot's hands. I was like, "Do you realize what you've just said?"
LOL exactly, it's like Ummm did I just say that?? Slap the cuffs on me!!!
All for a dollar. Shame on Boeing.
I still struggle to 100% acquit Lion Air for their crash because they have a long history of not training pilots well & providing lackluster maintenance.
That’s funny because pilots in Brazil were trained about MCAS before any of the crashes
it's murder, no other word for it
50:36 "Do you agree you're not going to write it down?" "No" "Then forget it." Arrogant and despicable!
New CEO promised transparency
@@raymond3803 ROFL
He should have agreed that he was "not going to write it down." Then he should have recorded it.
@@beckmill *HE DID RECORD IT.* You just blew 90% of your credibility with that irreversible Corporate Culture comment lecture. Go ahead and double-down in attempt to blow it off arrogantly , and you could be the next CEO @ Boeing. I C & Ped your master piece to preserve for posterity. Based upon the probability exposed idiocy has a 98% chicken-shit delete rate. Unworthy of, and unwilling to spot you a 2% benefit of doubt.
He should have agreed that he was "not going to write it down." Then he should have recorded it.
@@raymond3803 You're as sharp as a marble and have have as much credibility about business as Bill Clinton has about marital fidelity. It's crystal-clear that what you know about corporate culture could occupy the head of a pin, which would still be easily visible in its entirety. And, of course, you have to hid behind a phony alias. But at least you're 100% consistent when it comes to disingenuousness.
Former aeronautical engineer. The root cause of the 737 Max tragedy was somewhat under-emphasized in this otherwise excellent documentary: the aerodynamic design of the 737 Max is fundamentally flawed due to the stretched fuselage and larger engines that had to be extended forward, likely to maintain center of gravity limits. In certain regions of the pitch/speed envelope, the aircraft is unstable and will undergo sudden pitch up departure - it even scared the test pilots. The fact that Boeing engineers tried to fix a dangerous aerodynamic flaw in a civil airliner with software originally designed for risk tolerant military aircraft is jaw-droppingly stupid. The design should have been started over from a clean sheet, but I'm sure Boeing management wouldn't have considered that option for more than a millisecond before going with the MCAS fix.
The ending was rather abrupt too - they just mention that the Max has been returned to flight. Why? What fixes were applied to the MCAS software? Does the fact that it now uses two AOA sensors really make it fail safe? What happens if both sensors fail? What other failure modes did they identify and fix? Simulator training in MCAS incidents is now recommended, but likely only for the known failure mode that caused the previous crashes. How many thousands of hours of software failure mode analysis by non-Boeing software engineers did the MCAS system undergo before being re-cleared for flight? How many new failure modes did they identify and put into the simulator training program? And the most basic question of all: why is a dangerously unstable design allowed to fly as a commercial airliner in the first place?
I don't think this take really makes sense in the context of modern commercial airliners. Modern control law means that inherent aerodynamic properties can have little to do with how the plane feels to the pilot; as long as that is extremely reliable, that's OK.
Two AOA sensors do make it substantially more safe. MCAS control authority is more restricted now so that it remains controllable even if MCAS activates several times repeatedly, it can only activate once both sensors agree that the aircraft's angle of attack is above a threshold, and it can only activate again once both sensors agree that the aircraft's angle of attack has gone below that threshold. If at any point the sensors disagree by too much, MCAS is disabled for the remainder of the flight (and a disagree alert is shown) .
I can answer your last question with the official motto of the Mega-rich - "Profits uber alles".
@@AmbientMorality It's not a "take", it's a fact: the 737 Max design is aerodynamically flawed. Only in military aircraft, where the pilots have tacitly agreed to risk their lives every flight, is it acceptable to have software maintain aerodynamic stability. For example, the F-117 is a very unstable aircraft kept flying (most of the time) by software. But a civil airliner should not require software to keep it from rapidly stalling.
Your run-down of the new MCAS modes sounds like classic engineering overconfidence: "we fixed what we know was broken. It must be fail safe now - good to go!" The only truly permanent and fail safe fix for the 737 Max design flaw is to start over with a clean sheet design.
@@tomberger8628 737 MAX's static margin decreases at high angle of attack, but it doesn't go negative. It is not statically unstable like fighter planes. If you let go of the controls of the 737 MAX, even at high angle of attack, it would return to the trimmed condition (because it's still statically stable).
You are assuming MCAS availability needs to be high. It doesn't, because the high angle of attack where that behavior occurs shouldn't be encountered in a typical flight anyway and the plane is still stable even then (though it's not desirable).
@@AmbientMorality You bring up an interesting point: if the only time MCAS is needed in the Max is during highly unusual conditions such as the banking climb condition that originally initiated its development or the later-discovered "aggressive take-off" scenario, then why have it at all? Was MCAS really developed just to keep incompetent pilots from getting into risky situations that a good pilot could either avoid or easily recover from? If so, then that's a terrible reason to add software control to a system because, as shown, if the software system fails it becomes the lethal risk factor.
Emphasize that I'm not saying the pilots in the two crashes were incompetent - they were not. They were faced with a software system that failed and essentially murdered them.
As a person who lost a dear young sister in a plane crash it is disturbing to know that Boing CEO left company with millions of dollars of compensation and not being criminally charge.
RIP to your sister
I think you mis-spelled serial killer. Its not spelled CEO!
I am very sorry for your loss may her soul rest in peace that’s why I don’t fly the max I had to change airlines because they kept put me in the max so when I booked with the another airline I made sure that it was non max it was the A320NEO Series thank God it is safe.
When someone you love becomes a memory, the memory becomes a treasure....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
37:18 seeing Captain Tajer hold back tears is the most moving part of this documentary. Hats off to PBS for putting this together.
That brought me to tears . That Ethiopian kid was a great pilot .
I broke down watching that segment, too. I could feel his frustration at a completely preventable situation that ended the life of innocent people. I am exceedingly frustrated with the current state of American corporate culture. Everything is driven by greed and speed. The folks running these companies aren't passionate about their craft, they're passionate about making money for the shareholders. This problem has been left to fester long enough now that it's not just at the executive level, the toxic "profit first" culture has entangled middle managers, too. Subject Matter Experts are ignored, issues get covered up, products are pushed to launch earlier and earlier before they're stable. Accelerating this issue, we continue to elect leaders that allow lobbyists to persuade our law makers to deregulate and take a laissez faire approach.
No one was held accountable here. Nothing will change, because now they know they can get away with sloppy engineering and internal cover-ups with the only detriment being a minor financial setback. Manipulating the FAA and removing the references to the new system to avoid simulator time (for financial gain) should be considered criminal negligence. The people making these calls should be charged and put on trial. Let a jury decide.
@@revolutionnow5227 They did what they were told and trained to do, but It was the greed of people of Wall Street who killed them.
I felt that too
Yeah, this part gets me every time I watch this video. Sad part is that since no one was really held responsible for this tragedy, I have a feeling this not the end of it. RIP everyone onboard these flights.
I can understand companies making mistakes. Intentionally allowing them to happen, toss blame elsewhere and then cover it up is a whole other beast.
But politicians do it all the time.
Its normal corporate behaviour these days. Everything revolves around cosy cronyism with regulators, whether it is banking or aircraft manufacturing, all the same. All about image and cheating and profits. I find it hard to believe that insurers who are in that cosy circle dont take a harder stance on regulation, after all, a disaster like this will cost them dear.
Happened during Trump's term
@@dummgelauft - do you therefore actually blame Obama or Biden for things that happen during their tenure, or are those events and issues merely caused by the specific people/organizations involved in the matter?
@@davidswanson5669 actually, I do. Who gets the burden of blame for the Afghanistan fiasco? Biden, ofcourse. Who gets the blame for starting the dismantling of America? Obama.
On a positive note, it's refreshing to be reminded of the importance of good journalism
Agreed!
Too bad that doesn't extend to the slime in government.
WHATSX THE CONVERSATION OF THE SHOW IDK
Lol like the polls?
@@geneharrel773 in politics lying is journalism. They think the world doesn’t know lol
$2.5 billion dollar fine.... on a reported $370 billion in preorders. 6.7% of their gross. I pay a higher percentage than that in sales tax for a soda... and it doesn't kill 300 people.
The audacity to intentionally hide the system info from pilots to save money on training, then blaming pilots for not knowing how to react to it when it malfunctions is unbelievable, and infuriating. Ironic how they were calling foreign pilots idiots when they wanted training and then ended up being the real idiots when they were out tons more money, business, etc than they would have been had they did it right the first time.
Rank MOFOs.
and then have the gall to claim 'Safety is our top priority!' it's been obvious for years that the bottomline is their top priority. Anything to keep sales going and and cutting corners to spend as little as possible
Yeah "foreign pilots are poorly trained" and "look at these stupid dumb foreign pilots who want to be trained" - the self serving duplicity is disgusting, one of the worst things about human nature.
Southwest Airlines is also complicit. They threatened Boeing monetarily if simulator training was required.
Main motivating factor wasn't necessarily saving money with the exception of the Southwest deal, it sounds more like it was an attempt at customer retention after several debacles, they were going to lose American Airlines as a customer to Airbus if they couldn't get a fuel efficient twin engine plane out the door, so instead of designing a new one they tried modifying the 737. Doesn't make it right but 'saving money' is a bit too watered down of an explanation.
“I know she wasn’t afraid of flying at all until the last six minutes of her life” damn that’s rough to hear from a mother
As a 33 yr flight attendant, it's very tough and very impactful to hear.
I'm glad she got to look Muilenburg in the eye and tell him he wasn't capable of solving the problem, but she still went too easy on him.
Knowing that her last thoughts were “I wish that I had never gotten on this p o s!”
Haunting.
@@Redsand187 I profoundly agree
so much pain in this woman eyes...
It is infuriating that those pilots who are just as much victims of Boeing as the passengers are still being smeared to this day. They did everything right and instead of being treated as victims they’re being calling incompetent pilots and having the blame of the hundreds of deaths shifted on them. I can’t imagine how painful this must be for their families, knowing their loved one will forever have a tarnished reputation when they did everything they could to save their passengers. May they Rest In Peace and be remembered as good people.
Doubt they did everything right. Nobody does everything right every time which is why safety critical systems are built with multiple safeguards unlike MCAS. They did what could be reasonably expected from passenger plane pilots. Maybe an ex fighter pilot or a test pilot could have figured things out quickly enough. But if your plane needs fighter pilots perfect effort to not fall out of the sky it should not be certified to carry passengers
It's also infuriating how the NYT tries to exhalt itself as sort of virtue watchdog on this, while they're just as dishonest and scummy in their reporting these days. These big companies just loveeeee to push this image that they're morally superior and ethical beacons, but scratch the surface even slightly, and you find nothing but the most corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, petty, and fake people as any other time in history.
@vibratingstring If you are trying to say all American pilots are ex fighter pilots thats not true of all. And even if it was , if a civilian plane needs fighter pilot reflexes its not safe enough to be carrying passenger. Fighter planes have ejection seats. Passenger planes dont so they have to be built safer.
@@prabuddhaghosh7022 They did everything right, it was built with a design flaw.
THOSE PILOTS WERE EXTREMELY IN COMPETENT ,!!
There is more to this story. Boeing used to be a company run by engineers headquartered in Seattle. The safety and engineering excellence of their products was their first priority, and profits would follow. Problems were solved by the engineers with support of the board. After it's merger with Douglas in 1997, Douglas executives took over the board, and in 2001, moved the headquarters to Chicago (i.e., managing the company from 2000 miles away). Do you know why the 737 sits so close to the ground? It was designed for airports that had stairs for boarding rather than jet bridges. To meet Airbus's challenge, rather than building a new, modern replacement for the 737, the bean counters in Chicago decided to band-aid the 50 year old design by adding new larger (diameter and weight) engines rather than producing a new safe, state of the art airplane. To get ground clearance, the engines were moved forward, which moved the center of gravity forward, making the plane more unstable, especially with respect stall characteristics. MCAS was supposed to compensate for that and keep the pilots out of trouble. Pressure from the board short-circuited the development and testing process and led to the debacle that followed. I find it interesting that the board is still making excuses for the failures that were ultimately their responsibility rather than correcting the processes that led to the failures. The board is currently in the process of dismantling the remaining engineering staff in Seattle. Airbus has overtaken Boeing in sales and engineering expertise. China has completed the first flight of their 737 competitor. I have little faith that Boeing will be able to regain its culture and engineering expertise.
First, it wasn't the board, it was the customers. One in particular. Second, the center of thrust didn't move at all and yes the engines were moved forward 7 inches. They 7 inches on a 130 foot airliner. You know what else changes CG? LOAD. You know, the thing that is different for every flight, that load. So please explain in more detail how those 7 inches made the airplane "less stable".
Third, there's one small thing you might want to keep in mind during your Douglas takeover made them less safe rants: the actual safety record. If commercial airliners were still crashing at the same rate today as they were in 1997, they would be going down somewhere on the order of once per week. Yes, one airliner every single week. There are a lot of reasons they shouldn't have moved to Chicago, but building a less safe product as a result isn't one of them.
@@Milkmans_Son In 1997 there were 16 commercial airliner crashes. No, not one airliner every single week. And add 2 more if you want to include commercial cargo plane crashes.
@@BOTzerker Read what I wrote again, but slower this time.
@@BOTzerker Work on your math if you don't get it.
Accident Rate = (Number of Accidents) / (Unit of Exposure)
Do I need to step you through this? Googling "how many airliners crashed in 1997" only gives you part of the equation.
Looking forward to your next excuse.
@@BOTzerker Man, there goes one of the smartest dudes I've ever met in my life. Even when he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, his comments are golden. Nice knowing you.
This is the American business mindset since the 1970s when Milton Friedman declared that business “has no social responsibility.” Since then, American quality of manufacturing and service has tanked as companies quashed labor unions and started the trend of making money by sacrificing quality of materials and workmanship - always with the excuse that it was necessary to remain competitive.
But, no matter how underpaid or overworked employees are, no matter how many corners are cut, substandard materials employed, the “cost savings” never actually get passed along to the customers. Somehow, all that additional margin finds its way into the pockets of someone who orchestrated the “savings,” executives, and shareholders. A $2.5BN settlement on a $370BN sales run is nothing. Less than 5%? Because the US government is afraid of Boeing? Mark Forkner needs to be tarred and feathered for the frat-boy attitude he wore throughout the entire debacle. And Boeing execs need to be run out of Dodge. All of ‘em.
The honor and reputation of America is in the hands of these and other global players who are, as we speak, engaged in the same kind of deceptive, manipulative BS that Boeing got caught doing. All because profit has become not only the most important factor of American business, but is very quickly becoming the ONLY one. Employees who qualify for government aid or insurance, or worse, those that don’t but just barely, contact employees, part-time, gig employees, and the intentional devaluation of American higher education all contribute to the massive profits of big business and the relentless growth of the American stock market.
Yes, Boeing has a labor union. But none of the issues addressed in this film had anything to do with workmanship except as it may have been responsible in part for the over-cost and delays because Boeing is notoriously stingy with its workforce in terms of manpower and hours. I know a guy who’s worked at the Renton factory for almost 30 years and the way Boeing treats those guys is flat-out despicable. Like American Express and many other American behemoths, they lay off their workforce regularly to avoid expenses. During these layoffs (whose duration is unknown) employees take unemployment insurance because everyone in America knows that UI is sufficient to keep up your health insurance costs AND the mortgage, car payment, food, and expenses for the kids (not sure how much it is in Washington, but in AZ it’s $260 a week max).
Meanwhile, Dennis Muilenburg still sits on a couple of boards and has an estimated net worth of $100 million. Not bad for a heartless, lying POS, huh? See, in keeping with the new American business mission statement, it’s all about setting yourself up at the expense of everyone who works for you, making obscene amounts of money that should be in the pockets of the men and women who actually build those aircraft. Clearly, the guys in charge of design and production, the “leadership” Boeing cited as having failed, isn’t interested in anything else.
If a cartel leader killed 300+ people and took enormous amounts of money doing it, he’d land in prison and face civil forfeiture. But a CEO? He “retires” at 56 with a fortune and nothing but time to spend it. Something is wrong with this picture.
So well stated and so true. If people knew this and was able to boycott(which it can't because of way it's set up) it might make a big enough dent in profits to effect change but that today will never happen. So it's passengers are playing Russian Roulette everytime they fly on one of
Boeing's aircraft. They can take the hit on lawsuits and still make Billions so until like other countries, that make these accidents criminal, everything goes on like normal. Disgusting!
Welp, Milton would argue capitalism entails freedom and responsibility. From the shareholders perspective, Boeing failed them. Boeing represents the worst kind of crony capitalism, we need prison time for the executives and to shut this company down. Set a damn precedent. There is no incentive to be "moral".
Capitalism, deregulated, unfettered.
It's all about leverage. A drug cartel leader does not supply the government with anything it needs so he does time for the crime and boosts the careers of prosecutors in the process. Boeing can materially pull the plug on national defense so fast it ain't even funny and therein is the leverage. Not only did the FAA delegate oversight to Boeing, they DOJ informally delegated justice to Boeing as well. Forkner and Muhlenberg should have had to stand trial for criminal negligence. I may have missed it, but so far this has not happened.
As a retired military avionics technician I never heard of a single data input to a flight control system on a passenger carrying aircraft before this. Redundant systems are the norm in aircraft design since the 1950s and practically a religious commandment, something a Boeing engineering team and CEO must have been aware of since they pioneered this best practice for decades. News articles mentioned that the single AOA input was only for the MAX model offered to airlines in less wealthy nations. In my opinion the single AOA was a conscious cost cutting decision to enable additional sales just as not mentioning MCAS in the first place was to obviate pricey simulator training. AOA transmitters are pretty tricky to align correctly to begin with and the correct position for each transmitter is unique to each aircraft. It's only a matter of time before someone misaligns one. In most other aircraft models, AOA is an informational indicator only for pilots to monitor, thus tying it in to auto flight control systems, was a pretty novel and risky engineering decision that was probably identified through a risk analysis and then overruled by a cost analysis.
Its actually.00675% 2.5billion is only .00675% of 370 billion
Its well below 1% in fact its less than .5% its minuscule to the point of might as well be 0 nada nothing
All of this can be summed up with: don't put accountants in charge of an engineering organization, especially when the thing being engineered can kill people.
and don't move the company HQ from near the factory floor, near where the engineers are, halfway across the company to Chicago, b/c your board president likes the Chicago Lyric Opera.
I'm an engineering and Ethiopian too for that fact. But engineers are held to a greater degree than contractors and manufactures. Everyone is ready to blame the Engineers, but not a single person wants to feel responsible.
Not accountants, CEO's. Accunntants don't make the decisions
@@Ariadne76-k3d just because you don’t make decisions doesn’t mean you don’t do mistakes. Everyone makes a mistake, and is responsible to a degree. People love to blame, Engineers, Doctors and so on. But when you think about it in real life any person that work in that particular projects or process is responsible. Including accounts, pilots, engineers, CEO’s, marketing, accounting, etc. Stop externalizing faults and errors to a specific person.
@@jobsmine you cant blame engineers who were told sit down shut up but thats just me
with a new CEO with the same attitude as the previous one, Boeing is headed for the pits. May the families that lost their loved ones find comfort
Rank MOFOs.
RIP to everyone who passed due to the obvious negligence of Boeing and the FAA. Condolences to their families. And especially the pilots who valiantly tried to save their craft.
Never ceases to amaze me how evil some people are. How can they sleep at night knowing they could have prevented all this.
It should surprise no one that the leaders of corporate America is filled with these evil doers. They are and have been only interested in one thing and that's the bottom line. These evil entities have lost most, if not all, of their humanity and souls to enrich their own coffers and those of their share holders. The public interest and safety has no meaning and no relevance to them.
Yes, I have experienced the same amazement at evil.
Many CEO's are genuine psychopaths who have zero concern for anyone but themselves. This is how they get to the top, by shitting on everyone around them for their own benefit and seeing nothing wrong with it. This in fact has been proved by psychiatrists.
They weren't "evil" you idiot. Stop letting your emotions cloud your ability to see fact. Was the process sloppy? Yes. Were the executives negligent and driven by profits? Yes. But, at the end of the day (and as is the case with pretty much every crash related to design flaws), it took a perfect combination of wrong events for these disasters to happen. Remove any single factor (including the piss poor safety record of Lion Air and the maintenance issues that they ignored), and they wouldn't have happened. They used software to ensure the plane would not need a new certification which ON PAPER is actually not a bad idea. Of course, they lacked the foresight to see what combination of events could have led to these crashes. Boeing (and the airlines with their poor pilot training and safety records) are certainly to blame, but nobody here was "evil"
They (executives) are all sociopaths Max....verging on psychopathy.
It's scary how many disasters have happened after an engineer pointed out a problem and was ignored.
That’s how the space shuttle challenger exploded
And nasa is a government agency
yea and that's how more regulation get put into place. big companies will know of a problem and not worry about it because they have the mind set of how much will it cost to fix Vs. how much will it cost to keep people quiet if something does happen. and alot of the time its cheaper for them to just take the hit then to fix the issue.
I think most people miss the point. Corporations are like machines, like robots, whose only mission in life is to increase profits and shareholder value. They don't care about safety or people. They care about making money. The big circus in front of Congress was a complete and total waste of time; with all the families, and all the tears. All this meant nothing to the CEO. He is just a human face on that corporation... which then fires him.
Regulation is the only thing that can keep a corporation in check. But when the regulators (FAA) and certain Congressmen are in bed with the Airlines, this is what you get.
WHISTLE BLOWERS IN AMERICA DESTROY THEIR JOB PROSPECTS AND STAND TO LOSE THEIR ALL, TO SAVE INNOCENT PASSENGER LIVES. THIS IS WRONG. THIS IS TERRIBLY WRONG. DESTROY CORPORATE HUBRIS AND GREED. SAVE OUR SOCIETY. OUR CITIZENS LIVES MATTER
And the event happened just a few days ago proved those words still hold true.
Mark Forkner should be ashamed of himself. He didn't behave like a chief pilot, he behaved like a corporate ladder climber trying to improve his career.
He should be in prison for mass murder.
This is a problem deeply entrenched in U.S thinking. Me first and everybody else last. U.S executives are sociopaths and many of them probably do stuff that would shock all of you. Boeing is also part of the military industrial complex so they feel protected by their power and influence.
Nailed it. He was bucking for a promotion to the corporate suite and delivering results, unrealistic or not, was his ticket. American success story.
He's apparently facing criminal indictment. Hopefully he'll be held accountable, as well as everyone else who abetted putting lives below profit.
@@deezeed2817 you definitely are NOT the brightest bulb in the box ROFL
This is exactly like the shuttle Challenger blowing up after launch. The engineering staff at Thiokal did not want to fly because of freezing temps and the nearly assured failure of the o-rings to seal. There had been evidence of o-ring damage from thrust blow-by on a previous flight where temps were much higher. NASA pushed to have the engineers change their recommendations. RUSH TO LAUNCH is an excellent documentary on what happened.
20 years ago, my wife and 3 yr. old son were on a Boeing 737 from Atlanta to BWI. As we approached the runway to land, a strong cross-wind from an impending storm caused us to loose lift. The plane dropped in elevation and banked to the left, into the wind, to regain lift, narrowly missing trees below the left wing. We rerouted to Virginia to land. We all deboarded and met with the pilot. He looked like Captain Kangaroo. Friendly full face, grey hair. He was asked where this ranked on his aircraft scares. He said, it's the closest I have ever came to crashing an airliner. That is all I needed to hear. Never again was I afraid to fly, until I watched this documentary.
I fly minimum 60 times per year and guess what NEVER FLY WITH A 737..I pick Airlines with no 737 Fleet..Airbus or Drive for me.
After working at Boeing for 16 years and seeing what happened when Boeing botched the purchase of McDonald Douglass was beginning of end to Boeing. The inside joke was Mc D bought Boeing with its own money. They went from a family atmosphere and do it right first. We had both destructive and non destructive testing of all systems to pure computer modeling approval. McD led Boeing also pushed to outsource key Mfg outside company for profits. I left in 2014, sold all my stock shortly after
@@smar5812 In my Childhood and Teenage years Boeing was the best Aircraft maker. 707 was a revolution i flew from London to everywhere with 707s. Truly great Aircraft. Boeing unfortunately has been sinking slowly. 737 had the market on its own but arrival of Airbus as a rival instead of giving them an incentive to build better and improve they got cocky and thought they were indestructible but the time proved them totally wrong. Airbus in a short space of time sold record number of A319-A320 and A320 Neo A321 Neo nowadays added failure of Max 8 to this Boeing lost the market they solely owned.
I was waiting for Russian MC to hit the market slowly but Airbus is playing the game so clever I cant see anyone rivalling them for a long while..Shame that Russian MC in right hands would have replaced 737 as Airbus Rival. Now with the whole world are against them its a big blow for an up and coming lovely design MC .
@@lnr243 Not to forget that the CEO responsible for the MCAS crime (Muilenberg 2015 - 2019, so the crime must have started under the CEO before him) also was at the helm during the bungled negotiations with Bombardier (and also the Brazilian producer that is in the same niche as Bombardier). Boeing pissed off the national gov. of Canada, the province of Qebec that heavily subsidized the new C series of Bombardier, a lot of Canadian citizens and of course the company Bombardier.
And since Qebec had sunk so much subsidies into the development they needed to get a partner, and Boeing trying to bully them drove them right into the arms of Airbus. (The third alternative would have been China. Well - not really).
Airbus was not too stupid to see that the C-series (expensive as it was to develop, but it did not cost the money of Airbus) was a gem with a lot of potential for the future (somewhat larger planes are possible and they have emergency clearance approval for more seats than they currently use, so they could pack more seats in the already existing planes). And thanks to bully Boeing they got a 50,1 % share of the company.
Leave it to incompetent overpaid Boeing management to seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
the smaller modell of the C series (I think Airbus 220 series it is called now) has fewer seats compared to a 737 or A320 (but there is not much difference) and the same range as the 737 Max, also thanks to the highly efficient engines. Plus it is developed to cope with remote airports and shorter runways.
Boeing was shocked when Bombardier sold 75 of the C series to Delta airlines - they expected Delta would buy their 737 MAX (this was in 2016 before the crashes). So they sued Bombardier - for unfair practices and selling at too low prices while being subsidized. (a bit rich coming from Boeing). They lost that case btw.
And managed to piss off Canada, and missing out on a good opportunity to get a newly developed aricraft that does not need a questionable software fix to be able to integrate energy efficient turbines (they are even better than Airbus 320 or 737 Max).
After that (or shortly before that) Airubs had something going on with the company of Brazil, there they also retreated suddenly from the negotiations. So now Brazil is also pissed at Boeing.
"But what if that one single sensor fails, doesn't everybody die?"
BOEING: ".....you're overthinking it. What's for lunch?"
Not supposed to fail, it's called redundancy aircraft have anywhere from 2 to 4 redundant backup in case of sensor failure.
@@keithwright8564 they didn't have one though
They should make legislation where Boeing executives are rotated in flying along with the test pilot. If they dont get on then it doesn't go out.
@@keithwright8564 My experience exactly... and dozens of others if not hundreds with the same experience.
@@keithwright8564 There was only one AOA controlling sensor...maybe you missed that.
I worked in Boeing's wire shop when this happened. People knew exactly what happened before the FAA was even at the crash sight. No one wanted to point out the failure because at Boeing if you find a problem management immediately blames you for it.
No you didn't don't lie
@scoobtoober29 go back to bed granny. You’re talking nonsense. (You’re means ‘you are’, while ‘your’ is possessive).
After watching the Netflix downfall documentary, and comparing what happened to boeing dedication to quality with other large companies, I don't doubt you're experience at all.
You are full of it. There is no reason anyone in the "wire shop' would be told anything about MCAS.
@scoobtoober29 There was no "new device". MCAS was nothing more than software.
Watching this in Jan 2024…. RIP Boeing.
“Slow reaction time (>10s) is unrecoverable”. Is it just me that find it’s absurd to expect someone to see an alarm with several unreliable readings and react the only exact right way within 10s else everyone will die?
You are not alone. I think it is bonkers
I find it shocking that the new Boeing CEO would still blame the pilots. Incredible!
Agreed. Inexcusable, biggest takeaway of this presentation. The dead are my main concern. The lack if scruples is the main problem that caused the deaths. STILL publicly blaming the pilots proves the point.
Rather psychopathic behavior to throw mud at the pilots who acted most professionally in their attempts to save their planes. He obviously has no problem causing further grief to the pilot's families... A real lack of empathy.
Because it is a good idea. If they say it was 100% their fault then they will get crushed by everyone. But if they say "third world country bad" then they will get even more support from republicans on congress
It's not. Unfortunately sociopaths are severely overrepresented when it comes to CEOs. Often times when one catches heat, companies already have a new one ready to go; who isn't any better.
Boeing's official statement : Safety is our top Priority 🙄🙄🙄🙄.
Boeing's real and private statement : Profits and money is our top Priority 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑😁😁😁😁.
What amazes me is that Boeing's current CEO, Calhoun, still blames the Ethiopian pilots, and is still employed by Boeing as their CEO.
I just want to know the truth. Why can’t it also be their fault?
He’s got blood on his hands. He belongs in prison!
Not sure how he sleeps at night.
@@LOLmusics he is a sociopath, it is crystal clear.
It doesn't amaze me most of these CEOs of these companies ain't shit....
More than three years after the loss of these 346 souls who are statistics to Boeing I still weep and listen to the end. Unbelievable and unbearable. 346! Two young and amazing captains. Families bereaved forever. I admire the mother talking about her daughter. The young man talking about his mum sister and nieces and nephew. We weep with you all.
As a teacher you learn the average student can't be trusted to correct their own work. The same applies to financial reporting, pharmaceuticals and engineering. Regulatory capture is one heck of a thing.
Yet there is a faction of this country that thinks regulation stifles business and economic growth... until it happens to them. An old helicopter pilot in Ypsilanti MI once told me that every single one of the rules and regulations in aviation, as trivial and arbitrary as they may seem to the layperson, are "written in blood". This documentary speaks volumes to the pervasive rot in corporate culture. Cut corners, lie, cheat, obfuscate... the idea that playing by the rules is for suckers and losers. F***ing pathetic.
This is standard. Most “professional” disciplines are self-regulated. This is a shame, since 1. professionals are people, and 2. most people are stupid. Hence, even in light conversation you will often hear doctors sticking up for other doctors, lawyers other lawyers, etc. Then again, it could be fear of professional reprisal (six degrees of separation and all that)….which again, does no service to the argument.
Basically, professionals are fucking snobs. Everyone should get the same cubicle. How I get more respect than a ditch-digger because I sat on my lazy ass and read books is beyond me.
@svenm sandity
an*
standard*
too*
than*
their*
Are you trying to beat the mispelling record in this comment section or something? 😅
Also, what have punctuation marks ever done to you? 🤣
Actually the same applies to everything, it’s unfortunate but human beings are inherently deceitful on the best of days, slap a deadline and a tight budget on top of it and you now have a recipe for disaster. We currently live in a microwave society, if it can’t be done in the snap of the fingers people get all bent out of shape, we all need to take a major step back and understand the direction we’re heading toward because it’s not a good one, I’m sure that most people have noticed but quality is down drastically and cost is up dramatically.
@@maxpeck4154 I think it's over regulation that people fear. Think California style regulation, and you should have some idea of why certain people are leery of it.
I've watched a lot of documentaries on the Max, this is the best, most comprehensive mainstream documentary to date. Well done.
I didn't realise that Colquhoun still maintained that US pilots would have managed differently. It's extremely disappointing that Boeing still won't accept the fact, that regardless of whether it was technically possible to save the flights or not, they created a system which took a completely normal, functioning and controllable aeroplane, and pointed it straight at the ground at low altitude. It's like throwing someone in a pit with a lion and then blaming them for not being able to climb out fast enough before being mauled to death.
Well said.
Wendover Productions also made a great video on this.. check it out mate
US pilots flew that aircraft for 2 years and over 10,000,000. miles without incident. DUH!
@@annsheridan12 well that just makes it ok then I guess? How is it ethical to have proceeded selling an aircraft with a known fatal design flaw? People trust that these things are supposed to be safe.
The other obvious question is what the h** else is wrong with it?
The negligence of Boeing on the 737 Max debacle is astounding. The fact that no one was held criminally negligent is obscene...
rampant corruption between Boeing and the Congressmen,Most corrupt country is US
It’s amazing no one has faced any criminal charges for this.
It’s the FAA’s fault. They’re supposed to make sure the plane is safe before they approve it. They failed.
@@terjeoseberg990 It's Boeing's fault too. It's called regulatory capture.
Forkner might, soon...
Pay off
@@terjeoseberg990 Also blame Congress. They told the FAA to delegate the review and approval to Boeing. You can't also expect the US Government to charge Boeing with criminality when the US Government themselves enabled Boeing to act in a criminal manner.
The ONE person who was brought up on criminal charges, Forkner, was somehow found not guilty by a jury. Unbelievable. Not a single person connected to Boeing went to prison.
Dead people in other countries. More specifically; dead brown people. No worries.
Honestly that case was doomed from the start. Forkner is a miserable sob, but everything I've read suggests he didn't have the full picture of the issue. I'm sure he's guilty of something, but the charge in the case didn't really make sense. It's a shame he isn't in jail, but I think it's more a shame that the people at the top aren't.
The top brass, all the way to the board-they beat ultimate responsibility-but today prosecutors would never dare come down on good soldiers for the financial industry unless they knew for sure they didn’t one day want to be on the board themselves.
before you make such a statement, you should read the court proceedings. The case has zero substance,. and you use of caps is another sign that you're well .... ya know.
You've missed including one memo, back in 2016, of a company pilot saying to a colleague of his: _"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys"._
That was the Technical Pilots who were in the process of certifying the simulator who disagreed with other engineers on how one particular autopilot function was incorporated.
I thought was about the 787.
This video reappeared in my feed, now that the Alaska Airlines door plug blowout is in the news. It is sad that no one from Boeing is in jail for the deaths in 2019. I had already watched the documentary years ago. The recent incident shows that the culture of Boeing, to ignore defects and inspection concerns, has not changed. That is frightening for us consumers, who will no doubt be flying Boeing planes.
The fact that this documentary is free.
The computers processing MCAS were at least doubly or perhaps triple-redundant yet relied on one sensor. My students would be failed.
It's just gobsmacking that there is no redundancy in the AoA sensor. You would think there would be at least three on the plane so the MCAS processing centre could analyse all three and decide what to do. If one is different to the other two, go with the majority, anything had to be better than what they had.
That’s exactly how it works on the current generation of Airbus aircraft. They are fitted with three AoA sensors and the flight computers need to receive a signal from at least two of them simultaneously in order to activate the Flight Envelope Protection (a broadly similar system to MCAS, except it’s function is to ensure the aircraft does not exceed safe flight parameters, rather than make the aircraft fly like an older version of the company’s products so that airlines don’t have to spend money training flight crews properly!)
Not to mention robust Q.O.S. logic.
Every critical system in a plane is supposed to have at least one pathway of redundancy, why that sensor didn't count as one is huge failure. Not just because of MCAS but of how important anti stall systems are, its not something that should ever be unreliable.
True. Its ridiculous to put a critical system relying on a single point of failure. What were the engineers thinking?
However, even redundant system is not entirely fool-proof. For example, XL Airways 888 has two out of the three AOA sensor frozen and inoperative, however the logic decided to vote the only operative one out. Computers then find out the AOA data wasn't matching other indications thus placing the whole plane into FULL manual mode (DIRECT LAW), with a USE MAN PITCH TRIM warning on the PFDs. Unfortunately the pilot didn't noticed that, and due to the stalling test they were performing, before the plane was in direct law the pitch trim was set to extreme nose up position, where you can't push the plane down without using pitch trim. This is where pilot training comes into hand.
RIP to all those who lost their lives on a crash.
Two crashes. It daunts me at how a *Multi-million* dollar company had to rush this plane through certification just so it could compete with it's "rival".
@@rodrig1622 can't believe FAA would also Gamble With Boeing for Risking lives what a Monster
“Safety is a our top priority”
Well I find that very hard to believe.
When it comes to attitudes about foreign (non-western) pilots, it sounds like the new CEO might not be much better than the one he replaced.
Got that same feeling. Its all about damage control. They dont want to admit it was 100% their fault because that would be terrible for their stock, investers and buyers of those planes...
exactly, by him saying that american pilots would be able to pull out of that scenario is just biased i mean no matter who you are and no matter what country you live in, the pilots should be very professional and know what to do because of the training.
@@FSUSean2112 so your believing your gut feeling over reality?
@@euphan123 well maybe that or you can just go on every other plane but that Boeing Max plane
@@FSUSean2112 The training is not the same.
As an engineer, this type of thing is my worst fear in the profession. The bean counters and the extreme capitalists are always looking to cut costs, compress schedules, maximize profits. While these are noble initiatives, to provide the most cost efficient product, as quickly as possible, if they are pushed too far, they pose a risk to the welfare of the public, due to increased risk of product failure, in a catastrophic level, just like what happened with the Boeing planes.
We are in a constant push back situation with the owners and a money men in numerous industries, but ultimately, we cannot control what they choose to approve or proceed with, even when it is the engineers direct recommendation to not do so, because of risk of hurt, harm, or danger to the general public.
Rest easy to those who lost their lives, because people didn’t stand tall and do the right thing to prevent this kind of situation.
I don't know if its the extreme capitalists so much as the lazy capitalists if all they are capable of doing is cutting costs, either that or they're conmen capitalists who jack up profitability for a short time, stick a bunch of lies in their annual financial report for year or two until they get a big fat bonus & drop out. Anyhow, that was the warning about the behavior of a number shady people from a innovating business tycoon I used to work for.
Not just executives seeking profits, these pressures can come from all sorts of places. Just look at the Challenger disaster, where government pressure for frequent space shuttle launches was a major contributing factor.
yep. all about the MONEY!!!!!!!!!
Keep electing Republicans then we keep getting exciting documentaries about people dying. Remember 9/11. Iraq. Machine gun mass murders. Criminal plane crashes.
Nothing like an anonymous email to a major newspaper to get the ball rolling if need be
The investigative journalism in this documentary is 🏆🏆🏆
but why are the NYT the experts?
Actually, I think this documentary tries to pin the blame on a few individuals, and is designed to generate a lot of hate against them.
Investigation-wise, most of this information is widely available. So, no, not a very good one.
@@TheEvertw It's really not. They push the singular "bad guy" narrative in order to make a good story. Real life is never that simple.
Cannot agree. The nightly news knew and reported this within days.
No deep, long term investigation was needed, only bravery needed was to push past the corporate cover up.
@@treehousekohtao if you really believe Nightly News, I would say you have a problem
Years later here we are again with doors floating out of max 9s this time
and biden is a clueless, liberals are bad people and 54% of all violent crime in the US is committed by less than 8% of the population. life is rough. Get a helmet
Boeing's indifference towards knowingly installing and concealing a system that would kill people has got to be criminal. And then blaming the pilots by claiming there was a simple solution that their own test pilots know was not that straightforward. Another career pilot who also has a YT channel explained that even understanding what was happening in the moment would not present itself as an obvious runaway trim in the same way the 737NG would. There would be several different alarms and warnings immediately after flaps are retracted and MCAS was designed to operate for 9 seconds, turn off, then reactivate after 5 seconds if it still sensed an out of trim condition. So this would initially make the pilot believe they had rectified the trim problem after the initial MCAS nose down command, but they still have all sorts of alarms going off, the control yoke noisily vibrating etc essentially causing a lot of confusion. This basically means the pilots forget the plane's engines are at full takeoff power and combined with MCAS nosedives causes the plane's speed to increase very rapidly. And all this is happening in a matter of seconds at the busiest phase of flight, very close to the ground. By the time you cut out electric trim, it can be physically impossible to manually trim the plane. Most pilots who were tested in a simulator and had the flight recreated could not recover, and they were not facing the mental pressure of being in an actual and unexpected life-or-death situation. Boeing made a HORRIBLE and stupid decision. Their whole plane was supposed to make them huge profits, but by compromising safety I bet this plane has so far cost them more money than anything else they ever built.
You do realize Boeing didn't make this "system" they installed correct? Read a little ;)...it helps lol
Absolutely correct. A system like MCAS needs a whole section in the flight training manual, and an easy to access over-ride. Not to mention it should have had a display on screen that tells the pilots it's activated. I'm certain if the pilots saw on their displays "MCAS ACTIVE" as the plane takes a nose-dive they would've probably known to take manual control.
If you put say 20 US pilots through this, I'll bet a few might save the plane, but most would not. It is ridiculous to say that any US pilot would have saved the plane.
@@sammiesue3556they knew its purpose and did not disclose details of potential failures and procedures.
@@sammiesue3556 Even so, such system missed by their quality control is still problematic.
The "safety" or their stock price was Boeing's top priority clearly. And Mark Forkner should be in prison.
No not prison here in America. He should be sentenced to go to africa and be used as a slave for the rest of his life. Let him dig graves for those who die of ebola or malaria. Let him dig ditches for sewage. Let him pick through the giant mounds of garbage for things that can be recycled. Make him clean the bed pans of the sick and infirm. Even those activities are too good for him. Seize all of his assets and sell them at the highest price obtainable then give that to the families of the victims. Let his family lose their big houses and expensive cars etc.
I can not think of anything bad enough to equal the pain of those who lost loved ones in those crashes
MONEY IS BEHIND A LOT OF DEATHS.
I don't think so. After all, their stock price imploded after the crashes. I think this is simply a case in which management and engineering failed see an issue with the MCAS system. In other words, they were just incompetent.
@@ronniewall1481 money,sales and stock price
@@ChairmanWang Don't be that naive mate . BOEING knew it all the way
37:10 was so hard for me to watch. To listen to that pilot go through the flight and react emotionally to what happened was so powerful and sad.
I had no idea that the Lion Air pilots cut power to Stab Trim. They did the right thing and still died. SMH
WHOOP!!! WHOOP!!!
PULL UP!!!
WHOOP!!! WHOOP!!!
PULL UP!!!
WHOOP!!! WHOOP!!!
PULL UP!!!
WHOOP!!! WHOOP!!!
PULL UP!!!
Yeah. That hurt.
When the test pilot got shook up, that brought tears to my eyes.
Great documentary, but you missed an important beat. The pilot who flew the simulated crash flight reported that the MCAS was turned back on because the manual controls were simply impossible to move. The reasons for that are partly a matter of physics, that is, the weight of air on the control surfaces was great and increasing the more the plane dived towards the ground. This means that the manual system was never going to work in a crisis situation, and it would only ever need to be activated in a crisis situation. Engineers at Boeing must have known that this would likely be the case, and I would be willing to bet that Pasternak has documentation on it. So it would have been a good idea to include a bit of discussion of the physics of flight as part of the discussion in order that the viewer could more easily understand just why the manual backup was most likely never going to work. One other beat that could have stood a bit more discussion, is the sort of racist assumption that pilots in the third world are somehow inferior to US pilots. At that point in the movie, you might have brought back the pilot who flew the simulator to emphasize that the pilots were professional and did everything that they were supposed to do.
Just keep ignoring those throttles that were never pulled back from take off power and your narrative will be fine. While you're at it ignore the stick shaker as well, just like the PIC was doing when he said flaps up.
Less than 400 hour pilot in the right hand seat is not racist, it's a fact. Doesn't mean it's his fault (if anything he was more situational aware than the pic, he called "stab trim cutout" anyway).
@@Milkmans_Son they were close to the ground without anti-stall, unless they were trained in the MCAS failure and how to fly a pane without MCAS, to respond by reducing throttle is probably not even in their consideration. Boeing put a bandaid on a fatal design flaw and hid it from the pilot without giving the pilots the proper training. Their CEO and chief engineers of the 737 Max should be in prison.
@@awdrifter3394 You have no idea what you're talking about. "trained in the MCAS failure and how to fly a pane without MCAS" makes no sense--they knew how to fly without it because that's how they always fly. The throttles should have been pulled back long before they started having problems--it's how they were trained and how they had done it a million times before. They forgot to do it this time.
@@Milkmans_Son it makes perfect sense to anyone who is not trying to deliberately confuse the issue. The change of the engine changed the handling of the 737 Max when compared to the 737 NG. The MCAS change the plane's handling to mimic that of a 737 NG and prevent stall. With the trim power being cut, the pilot now have to fly a plane with handling that they are not trained for and without any stall protection. In that scenario, it's not reasonable to expect the pilots to pull back the throttle.
They should try driving a non power steering car before suggesting this bullsit
33:01 the saddest part. Losing 5 family members in one swoop is unimaginable. I personally couldn't ever recover 💔
Would be truly heavy indeed! Reminds me of the hymn "Come Ye Disconsolate"...in the chorus it's says so beautifully "Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal"! But it truly is sick beyond belief that companies are allowed to get away with such wickedness, I sincerely hope these men repent of their transgressions before they close their earthly life, if not they will not escape the just judgment of God! 🙏🏽
So heartbreaking! And then to be treated like trash! Devastating!
Close 139vdayev
I worked for Boeing for 20 years. I absolutely loved my job. I was proud to be an employee. However once I found out that the company I loved cared more about making money than customer safety…..I quit. I didn’t want to be a part of that and there I was; a part of it.
Jeeeez…I hope you didn’t take a pension
@@firebir11 listen to the full interview.....there will be more coming to expose them all....gov, media, courts.....all of them
@@firebir11 if he was due a pension why not take it?
Lol. Don't feel bad. Plenty of companies were just as bad. Infact boeing bought one😄
@@happycudgel2193 they have bought many, and disrespected the supply chain blaming them as well...
@ 27:22 While Mark Forkners suggestion to remove MCAS from the manuals was abhorrent, it was actually the FAA who approved his request and allowed Boeing to do as it wanted. Both entities are at fault and BOTH are responsible for the loss of 350 innocent lives. The fact that these entities aren't being charged with manslaughter is unfathomable!
Around minute 23…”under the impression the MCAS was a relatively benign system, the FAA agreed to delegate it.” This makes me worry about whether or not the FAA was equipped to even determine what they should and shouldn’t delegate and makes me think that even if they hadn’t delegated, they would have certainly lacked the technical knowledge to be able to identify the design flaws.
How did MCAS got activated again in case of Ethiopian airlines..
@@sourabhjain9075 Same thing, I believe. Faulty data from the AOA sensor.
@@sourabhjain9075 they turned it back on.
They turned it off, got the plane under control and then turned it back on.
So sad, if they had just landed all would have been fine. Over-reliance on autopilot is a real issue.
My God, I can't imagine how terrified those passengers were.
Knowing they were going to die.
@@janestevens3379I felt my heart drop in some turbulence right after take off in 2021 after knowing I was on a MAX.
I made it out alive! LoL this whole this was a complete debacle, start-to-finish. Started at the Sales desk when they promised, in WRITING, "NO PILOT TRAINING or We'll throw large quantities of money at you"
I hope Boeing can turn this around, but they aren't the only game in town in Seattle anymore.
Me either. This is why I have to be xanaxed out before I fly. I won't even know if we're going down!
There were cases of MCAS malfunctioning during this time where pilots were able to avoid crashing. The stories of the passengers are hair-raising, for sure! 😱
PASSENGERS DRIVING ACROSS TEXAS I OUT DROVE AN 18 NO CONTROL IF A PASSENGER
"In 2020, Boeing had a historically bad year, as the company reported a $12 billion loss and laid off 30,000 workers. At the same time, Calhoun earned $21.1 million in compensation."
I live in Washington state and I am very ashamed to have Boeing manufacturers here and I don't even work for Boeing.
I have never understood why a CEO gets millions in bonus's when he's damn near put the company in bankruptcy. If I cost the folks I work for millions of dollars, I know damn well I'm not getting a bonus, I'm losing my job.
@@northwestmechanic8991 It's not the fault of assembly line workers. You wanna blame someone? try to climb a ladder much higher.
They are slowly returning to normal. It's possible they might show health profits end of next year.
And , yes my friend, that is what is very wrong about America.
Watching this in Jan 2024 after a door plug blowout on 737 max
The fact that the simulator pilot crashed because of MCAS and they ignored it is crazy to me.
Their own white, American, airforce trained, test pilot crashed, even with an early version of MCAS that didn't have as much freedom to pitch trim the plane as the production version did. But Boeing still have the fucking audacity to blame the "foreign" pilots.
Except they didn't. This documentary has several misleading statements and half truths of it's own in order to make it more dramatic. But if you read the statement they put up on screen was that IF the pilots didn't react in a timely manner(>10 seconds) it could be catastrophic, not it was always catastrophic.
@@TheLightningII React and do what? An undocumented feature is pushing your plane down violently, but there's nothing you can do. You're at low altitude. It's harrowing
@@anonymousarmadillo6589 Notice that your horizontal stabilizer is running away and apply the proper memory item. Or simply trim using the switches on the yoke. MCAS was a massive failure but it's far from unstoppable.
@@TheLightningII Theoretically, if you put 100 US pilots in that situation (without warning), many of them would react quick enough to save the plane, but many would not. If the plane were at 30,000 feet, even foreign pilots would have enough time to figure it out, but at only a few thousand feet after takeoff, it is a roll of the dice even with US pilots. There is just too much going on. As the documentary mentioned, it is not just turning off power to the stabilizer; you then have to manually manipulate the stabilizer trim with only seconds to get it right.
I can say that Forkner killed 346 people because he dismissed the idea of pilot training and even called the pilot stupid and idiot! now we can see who was the stupid and idiot!
As a system software developer having thirty-years of experience, I found CEO Calhoun appraisal appalling, representing a reckless culture at Boeing. Given the MCAS managed a critical flight-control surface, it obviously should have been man-rated from the very beginning, containing failsafe-logic that would have compelled the input from a second AoA and an AoA comparator to ensure MCAS did not put the plane in a perils position. Additionally, giving MCAS the authority to override the full-elevator input was also questionable. If the objective was to hide MCAS, its design should have been bulletproof to the nth-degree, exploring all points-of-failure, examining all boundary-conditions.
PBS:
Thank you. Thank you for making these videos. Thank you for speaking truth to power.
The work PBS does is invaluable, and I will continue to do my part as a sustaining member as well as making yearly donations.
… Thank you ….
Dennis Tajer looks absolutely devastated speaking about the cockpit voice recorder. They almost got it...
Was imagining being the one dead and being blamed for it even though he did what he was supposed to
He's a good actor.
I did the re-enacting scene in the simulator with Dennis, he was on point in every steps , true professional
Are you agree that reactivating the switch seems like wrong by him!
even the pilot dont turn back on the mcas, probably the plane will still be doomed cause it is only 2 min in the air.
My late dad used to tell me, there is an amazing luxury airplane, and its brand is Boeing, 737 to be exact. Whenever we saw an airplane in the sky, I always asked my dad if it was a Boeing 737, and the next day I told my friends at school that I saw a Boeing flying.
Since the Lion Air accident, I always check the detail of my flight before I buy the ticket and choose whatever that's NOT Boeing.
A great memory tarnished. Boeing's current management should be ashamed. You bet I will tell my kids a very different story than what I heard from their grandpa.
Your story is basically mine . I loved Boeing . Now if it's boeing I'm not going
I love to fly, still always look up at planes and always preferred airlines that used Boeing, particularly domestic ones. But watching this I'm reminded how fast corruption can creep in to a degree of being criminal and damage a storied history.
@@revolutionnow5227
What are you flying now, since Airbus got fined for corruption?
I'd still rather fly Boeing than an Airjunk. Over the years, they also had problems with their planes that caused plenty of crashes.
@@mikemortensen4973
I agree 👍
Airbus fans like to make believe they have no crashes.
From the bottom of my heart thank you PBS keep up the good work please we need this kind of investigating happening on so many levels of life
Boeing lied, people died. - Former Boeing fan
Nicely said
Sadly, not the first time or the last. Automotive industry is no different. Corporate greed. Money over peoples lives.
@@EddieLeal Nor is the FDA or Big Pharma to be trusted
@@EddieLeal I think most American companies are built that way . profits over lives.
You were an airplane corporation fan? Lmao
The CEO, test pilot and engineers not being in prison is unexcusable.
If you or I went out and killed as many people as their stupid plane has we would for sure be iin prison . No jail for dudes in suits
they are going to be indicted
Well, the US soldiers in Iraq who killed civilian press and immediately after that killed the civilians trying to help the wounded as seen on the "collateral murder" video weren't put on trial, either. 100% proof of warcrimes, but not even an official investigation... The guy who released the video to the public (Julian Assange) is still on trial, though because of "espionage".
The people steering the drones which killed civilians including several children just a few days ago in Afghanistan aren't put on trial, either. Whistleblowers released a few years ago that around 90% of the victims of drone strikes are civilians. This has been going on for decades now. The people who are being targeted don't get any trial, just instant death penalty. The perpetrators - no consequences, except for reporters trying to talk about it.
G.W. Bush provably lied about WMDs in Iraq, so he started an illegal war (under international law) that killed hundreds of thousands. No consequences except he gets praised on some talk show "Ellen".
Oh and the Bush family was/is close friends with the Bin Laden family - when all airplanes were grounded shortly after the 911 attacks, the bin laden family members wanted to leave the country quickly and they got a special exemption and were allowed to leave.
Bush also opened Guantanamo - a place where they torture people with various methods, e.g. water boarding - a practice that the Japanese used during WW2 and the US gave the death penalty to Japanese torturers who were water boarding. Now they love doing it themselves - no consequences. The US changed.
By now it's an American tradition to reward the incompetent and the evil, especially leaders it seems - in case of Boeing here, the CEO got a 60 million dollar severance package. Nice, huh?
Just the Fact that the Plane is over 50 yrs. Old. Is the Red flag that is all you needed to Know.
This is because a completely new Design of and Air Plane would require retooling most like a whole new Factory. And the Biggest contribution to this Catastrophe The Worker's Union. YES ALMOST AS bad As MCAS. You see What is the Union Job At Boeing. Not making Planes not in the Slightest. It's their Protecting Jobs Not From other People but By Robots.
Boeings Fatal Flaw is not is MCAS it was the Beckon that allowed even Non Aviation experts to see their was something Terribly wrong at Boeing.
What started the beginning of the End was The Worker Union for Employees of Boeing. I found interesting no one mentioned how odd or Way are the still Working with a plane 50 years yrs old. That's Because the Union is protecting Works Rights. 1st. No one has a right to a Job. It's a privilege and it's up to you to stay on top if your Field to keep that Job. But in a City Like Seattle Where unions are out their Protecting even someone lagging far behind in Their Skills & Knowledge level. Unions are Protecting the person's job no matter what the cost. If Boeing and I'm no fan of Boeing I'm a lockeed Martin guy. If Boeing wanted to modernize its Factories and bring in Robtics Unions wouldn strike. Or if the Were producing a whole new Plane like other manufacturers. Once again the would be threaten with a strike. So it's the Workers Unions Keeping things just Like they were back in 1966.
Combining all this with Competition with a brand new Planes and designs. They were forced to Car a new plane and old plane With new BANDAIDS. hen you Drive tomorrow count how many 1966 Cars you see on the road. 1 if your lucky. And I bet none of you would old be buying a New Car that Is still being built on the Same Assembly line. With brands to keep up with the Jones.
When the Test Pilots told Boeing hey the plane handles poorly. THE RIGHT to have done was. We need to scape this plane and make a new modern Plane from the ground up. In stead The took The MCAS a trade an true technology that worked great in there Jet Fighter's. But with little if any test of it working properly in Bug Commercial Airlines Clearly the Straw the bike the Camels Back.
So you see the Devil really is in the details. It's the Unions that refuse to Budge. That ultimately killed many more people I'm sure and few ever even see it. From Boeing, Unions, Employees, FAA to the Government . They are all guilty. As well as the Left in this Country. They Think Healthcare is a Right. They Think their Job is a Right. They Right Housing is a right. I will tell you the only rights you have are on a piece of paper called the Constitution & The bill of Rights...But all you Make believe Rights are getting us all Killed.
And the FAA guy Bahrami
I'm generally always upset when non-pilots tend to blame pilots.
In general, the pilots did everything they could have conceivably done to try and save it; unfortunately, the best someone can do isn't always enough to save lives.
Even more incredible that a calculation was done that the exact crash would HAPPEN AGAIN inside a few months, and nothing as done. And then it did.
They always blame the pilots especially when they're dead
@@rabidbigdog Actually they said they had calculated another identical accident shouldn't happen for another year and a half. They were wrong.
@@KeepMoving4wrdthat itself should be criminal. ‘ keep flying your little plane because we don’t think it’ll crash again and kill everyone for a year and a half’.
Boeing: "--Safety is-- Profits are our top priority."
I can't help but wonder what else Boeing has done in the past to cut corners. This is outrageous. I know Airbus is not perfect but, long live Airbus.
Will Lyman the absolute best voice over artist of all time.
I totally agree
No kidding like my dad but more so.
I can listen to him all day.
As long as he is narrating doom and gloom stories. That said I like him too.
Ikr. Sometimes it’s like asmr.
The narrators voice is haunting and soothing at the same time.
That guy has been narrating all kinds of stuff for years. I remember him narrating a Navy Seal documentary around 1997. Will Lyman.
I remember him narrating that skit about the black white supremacist on Chappelle show. 😂😂😂
That's the voice of Will Lyman. Epic narrator.
I might be wrong but it sounds a bit like Morgan freeman 🤔
Stefan Rusu yes. You are incorrect. Will Lyman is THE voice for Frontline. You can hear him also on BMW commercials and Dos Equis Beer “The most interesting man in the world” commercials.
Some of the most brutally honest journalism I have seen in years! So refreshing! Thanks Frontline!
I've been flying airplanes since 1993, no flight instructor ever held back information about the aircraft I was training on. In fact they always let me know of ANY bad habits that aircraft might have. Why would top professionals & CEO's at Boeing not make their pilots aware of the MCAS software and how to deal with or disable it in an emergency? I found these events with Boeing & the deaths of the passengers on both flights to be the most unconscionable and unforgiveable I've ever witnessed! Someone at Boeing should have gone to prison for these crimes! R.I.P. All Victims. May God assuage the grief of all family members involved.
Because that would be admission of faulty product and would disable their "faulty pilot" premise. They also mention at around 15:00 not wanting to pay for training pilots.
money.
Your such a liar Boeing financed every thing you needed including a simulater with MCASS and your pilots never used it!
Reply
@@kimberlywilliams7543 yeah right (not)
@@kimberlywilliams7543The whole selling point of the 737 Max is no training.... Mcas was invented to cover up the real problem !
I'm retired Boeing, and although I expected a crash or accident on another model, I was not surprised by this. Luckily I was already retired and had gotten rid of my stock. It's really a shame, it was a top company to be a part of at one time.
@Joe Chuckles - _"...I expected a crash or accident on another model..."_ Which, model?
@@markaoslo5653 any. all. just put on a blindfold and throw a dart. look at all the tools and debris they are still finding in boeing aircraft. made in usa has major drawbacks. pride is the main one.
Stock price is up though
With the HQ moved to Chicago in 2001, outsourcing, and moving work to South Carolina, the local pride and culture for quality is gone. Yea, it's a shame the execs gutted the company. At least the area is now defined by tech, and the local economy is not reliant on Boeing.
I keep hearing how Boeing was an excellent engineering company before McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money and infiltrated the company with their management structure.
"Investigate deletion of MCAS nomenclature."
By the far the most damning, craven aspect of this whole documentary. They are essentially saying, "Let's just stop talking about it or informing people, maybe?" 🤷♀️ The quintessence of corporate immorality.
Yep that was disgusting. I loved how they (frontline) put that near the beginning, too. That sort of finally signaled to me that this was a top-down failure, and the test of the doc could sort of “work off of” that bombshell. Pretty nice structuring of Frontline, especially for an hour long episode (which I generally think are harder to structure due to the increased importance of every minute).
what if the whole hide mcas thing isn't actually true?
This makes sense why a lot of people I've heard from refuse to fly on the 737 Max
As a studying pilot, I couldn’t even imagine the horror experienced by both passengers and pilots alike as they dove towards the ground.
The more we rely on technology to fly the plane...while reducing pilot inputs will ultimately lead to tragic consequences. ....
Same here.
The more that companies put bottom line and satisfying greed of shareholders over safety of employees and customers … the more we will continue to see this happening - not as spectacularly or tragically as in a plane crash - but in thousands of small ways involving lack of action just to “keep costs down”.
Well when you have less than 300 hours you can fly the 737!
"Controlled descent into terrain" sounds like a far more peaceful way to die than it is
Doesn't "crash" say the same thing?
Only it wasn’t controlled.
It's called CFIT, controlled flight into terrain. And that assumes the aircraft was flyable at the time.
Sounds like CFIT on deodorant.
Why are they saying it was controlled, it wasn't!
And right to the very end, after the new CEO blames the former CEO, he blames....yes....the pilots. And we all know what he would have said had the Times granted his request that it be off the record.
And he insinuates that the 'foreign' pilots are naturally inferior. Typical. When these foreign pilots land, they immediately take a donkey home to their mud huts and talk with their relatives with drums. Typical exceptionalism.
@@todd3205 That's what I was getting at, Todd. If you know *anything* about commercial aviation - and the CEO of Boeing should - you'd know that airline pilots are an apex class of talent and training more so in Africa and Asia than here. Thus the assertion is not just racist, but wrong.
@@BlueBaron3339 Probably the most racist thing I have ever heard.
These people are sick.
Unreal. What a POS
Yeah, he would blame Lion & ET pilots
I heard the name Ali Bahrami here in this video and I remembered this documentary from Al Jazeera on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. He was the same man who signed off FAA certification for the 787, which has its own manufacturing quality issues as a result of Boeing outsourcing parts production to third-party partners to save costs and perform final assembly at a plant where the workforce seemingly lacked quality. Boeing also dismissed concerns that were raised internally regarding these issues, same as they did here for the 737 MAX.
Let's be honest it boils down to corporate greed and not listening to the engineering function because it was going to cost them an extra buck. shameful on Boeing's part.
Bean counters vs engineers; the Boeing Board went with the bean counters.
The results speak for themselves.
To all those who are still defending Boeing even after watching this documentary, let me ask you this: what if this had been a Chinese company instead of Boeing? Would you still be defending the manufacturer or would you blame that on incompetent Chinese engineering?
346 dead from negligent homicide. Who gets punished? Only the stockholders. What a world.
38:00 this whole segment, the audio mix, how the interviewee is emotionally explaining what is going on brought me to tears
"the kid got it right"
The recounting of the Ethiopian flight was gut wrenching, especially when the American Airlines pilot said "THE KID GOT IT RIGHT" with tears in his eyes.
This is a shining example of why I will NEVER accept that industries should not be regulated. If plane manufacturers will attempt to cut corners in safety-critical systems, then ANYONE in any other industry will also want to cut corners. Unbiased and independent regulation is absolutely critical and essential.
Well there was regulation. However it was the typical corrupt US way of regulation.
Profits over people, as always. And playing the blame game. Those pilots didn't kill themselves and all those on the flights, Boeing did it.
The best comment I ve seen
Because capitalism demands more and greater profits, wallstreet runs all companies that's the way it works in the USA
@@handyallen that's true yes but making some product doesn't mean you want high stock price . But American managers are after sales and stock price not after quality anymore
Corporate greed Plus government incompetence and lack of oversight equals people die! Corporate heads will never be held accountable. Look at the opioid epidemic, tobacco etc the Congress just can't get away from the feeding trough. Let us not forget that Trump stalled the FAA from grounding the 737 Max because he thought he was best friends with the CEO at the time. I guess cuz Trump owns a broken down 757 that makes him an expert on aviation especially boeing.
@@kirilmihaylov1934 that's true but I don't think it's only exclusive to americans!