Testing 9:1 UNUNs, T106-2 VS FT-140-43.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2020
- (Video en Français en cours d'édition...)
Surprising results between using a T106-2 and FT-140-43 for a 9:1 UNUN and random wire antenna. I really thought the FT-140-43 would win... You will also have a quick look at the beautiful scenery at the Col de Vence and Granges de la Brasque.
End-fed antennas: • Clearing Up Some Confu...
UNUN build: • Building a 9:1 UNUN Wi...
EARCHI UNUN: www.earchi.org/92011endfedfile...
Granges de la Brasque: • Radio Field OPS, Grang...
Shirts and mugs: teespring.com/stores/radio-pr...
Help this channel: / radioprepper
Twitter: / radio_preppers
Facebook: / radiopreppers DISCLAIMER: The Radio Prepper logo (depicting a microphone) is indeed inspired from a famous flag created in 1775. It is NOTHING BUT a symbol of freedom and independence. It does NOT imply support to any political group. It does NOT imply, represent nor support any ideology with an intent on harming anyone. Freedom means freedom from persecution based on any human trait or belief such as, non exhaustively, race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or nationality. The Radio Prepper channel is a technology and science channel with a focus on preparedness and use of radio technology for disaster relief and small group communications in times of need. It is apolitical and open to anyone sharing the same interests. .
Subscribe to my alternate platforms:
ugetube.com/@RadioPrepper
odysee.com/@RadioPrepper:1 oops, wrong address! Correct one below:
odysee.com/@RadioPrepper:d
Now you can buy me a coffee :-) www.buymeacoffee.com/gilg .
Send Bitcoins to: bc1qc5jq4dxt7359sh80lkv9v8rlsgnh322hmn6xyc Send Ethereum : 0xe7cC2e415E0D2d1De91604B2b693f124dfBCf9B8
Send Litecoin : LYwDy55mZSeb1Czx6JUiTS5YkqjfmWKK5H - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Excellent comparison - Thank you for sharing !
Thanks, Gil. Interesting results!
Interesting field test Gil, thank you.
Thanks Gil, quite a surprise! cheers, Keith
Your locations are breathtaking
Gil this is great info for me. Thank you.
Great comparison 👏
Wonderful test ..
a complete surprise
to be honest with you (i told my self) T106-2 will win in 20 meter TX as its has a Narrower SWR responses around Band edges , However i wished to see more how both materials behave in Receiving some DX stations ...
i am fully appreciate your time , efforts to do such a research and experiments hard to find in many Books and Magazines
Thank U
Hi Gil!
#2 material is made for creating filters / tuned circuits in the 10~40 MHz range, they are not adapted for HF broadband transformers (but they are in the 150~400 MHz).
#43 is adapted for broadband transformers in the HF band.
What you should have in mind is not only the impedance adaptation but also the efficiency. Do the test with a field strength meter : an unun based on #2 material radiates less than one made out of #43 material, all things equal otherwise.
Yep, I am building a field strength meter right now..
Ah, the difference between theory and the real world! That's why these videos are so useful.
I really enjoy your channel. While I learn from almost anyone, I much prefer your empirical home brew approach to the hobby. Cheers!
Thanks Steve.
Gil My wife told me "please let him know I love the videos showing the precious beautiful nature and she enjoy it SO much" and by the way she is HAM too. (KM4ICQ) your videos are a JEWEL and very joyful to watch. Loving outdoor and camping a nice luxury. Thank you very much GIL beautiful country by the way
Thank you very much from the both of you, I really appreciate it :-)
Super Video! 73 from Zurich!
...and also, especially if you’re working portable (i.e. not limited in space), with EFHW you’re working with a RESONANT antenna , unlike a random wire.
Thanks for your experiments, love your channel
best 73!
Absolutely!
Very good video👍 and I totally agree with you I love ❤️ my EFHW 49/1 and 64/1 UNUN’s and I gave all my 9/1 UNUN’s away. 73 KV5P
again perfect explenation.. thank you Gil.. de ta3le... 73...
good video
Good night Gil, a question I have with these antennas, I see that you use a tree to install the antenna, can or does it affect if the cable touches the branches, or can it touch, is there only a problem with metals? Thank you
Branches do not seem to cause any troubles..
Hello Gil. Nice vid. Like always. Q: Which antenna tuner do you use?
ZM2 and T1.
Always fun to experiment.
Chud M1PUP QTH London
Ps.
I think we have different definitions when it comes to chick magnets, with or without ferrite core ;)
Great video! Can you please say a bit more about the choke you used?
Thanks, it's a 31-materiel core with a few turns of coax..
Interesting comparison. I thought the other one would have won. Like you say, radio is about experimenting. 73
Gil,
Appreciate your research and reporting. Value insights to be had.
That said, I am tremendously surprised how the South of France resembles the climate of and topography of Southern California where I live. Maybe one day I will make the sojourn down there and see what it is like for reals!
Adieu,
William, k6whp
I'll show you around then :-)
Gil. I think you should now use the ft140-43 to load up a Chick Magnet!
my 1/2 wave verticals i use 49:1 with 140-43 (17m, 15m) swr is at 1:1 no need for tuner and work well for 40m,20m i use a 140-43 but as a 64:1 works best giving me good swr
with no need for a tuner i have built some 9:1's but as yet not been able to test them
Very informative! Thank you Gil! I'm hoping for a video about the best vertical(s) for a apartment situation, I will admit that's my living situation, so to be honest .. I'm asking for help 😉
That's a tough one. My magnetic loop has been a life saver...
@@RadioPrepper I know, that's why I asked ;-) I have a small loop, but I like to have a vertical. Anyway, thank you! If you come across a brilliant idea on this, I'd love to hear about it.
I work with an EFLW antenna for a number of years now, using a T200-2 UnUn. With no amplifier I get around much on the world (even on 80M). I think that's not bad for a 16 Mtr. wire @ 12 Mtr. high from Ground Level, sending from below sea level (I live in the Netherlands...).
Maybe I'll put an EFHW antenna up, some day.
Thanks for the fine video. 73 de PD0PSX
Give it a try, with a 49:1, it works awesomely!
@@RadioPrepper a 49:1 UnUn would not work with a random wire antenna. Given about 650 Ohm in a random wire antenna, the 49:1 would bring it down 13 Ohms...
The 49:1 UnUn will probably work with a End Fed Half Wave (which has about 2.5 kOhms)
I'm planning to use a EFHW (such as the HyEndfed) some day...
Thanks for another excellent presentation. I wonder if changes in propagation had any impact on the results. One could repeat the test with a local amateur operator and use ground wave propagation. Another option would be measurements taken with a field strength meter.
It might be even more interesting to replace the antenna with a 450 ohm resistor and scan each device with a NanoVNA over the range 1.0 MHz to 30 MHz. The NanoVNA could be set up to display SWR and show the variation across the HF bands. You might see a significant difference between the two devices. This might be an interesting subject for a future video! One other consideration is that the optimum number of turns for each core may be different.
I might do that thanks.
If you are doing SSB QRP you will always do better with a resonant antenna. Radom wires are less efficient and poorer on receive. If you don't have the space for a half or quarter wave, a coil can help to reduce the length although this will start to introduce inefficiencies. The 9:1 and a wire does have the advantage of being always able to get a signal out albeit inefficiently pretty much anywhere, so there is a use case as a backup, potentially not even using an unun and just let the tuner match the wire (I have no information on whether the 9:1 plus tuner or just a tuner is more efficient).
I guess the 9:1 is an assurance that the tuner will be able to tune the system. I'd take an EFHW any day over a random wire!
Hello Gil. I bought a sotabeams wsprlite beacon last year and I decided to get a second one at the start of the lockdown and having two you can run them in sync into two antennas and get a direct comparison. I'm surprised at those results too though. I might have to replicate the test with my wsprlites on 20m and see how they compare to the other 20m antennas i'm testing
That would be interesting!
Very rare to hear dx shooting on 80m anyways. 40m, 30m, 20m, 18m, 15m, and 12m are much more encouraging for dropping a cq and call, then proceeding to let them know you are proving out an emergency station assembly drill, with their cozy home base station and office chair's reception.
hi Radio Prepper whats the best length of wire to use with a 9-1 Random wire unun
Google "unun random wire best length"
Great test! I am like you - I thought he dash 2 would not be as good as dash 43.
Indeed!
Interesting test Gil, experimenting with wires up in trees for an antenna is one of my favorite parts of the hobby. I use a 9:1 unun with somewhere around 58 feet of wire up about 40-45 feet in a tree in my back yard (no ground or counterpoise just 50 ft of RG8X) for my main antenna and basically the same for portable although I experiment with other antenna setups. It works quite well and tunes everywhere except for 160 meters using an LDG ATU but with the EMTECH I can tune in almost anything anywhere. I use a 9:1 built by Nelson Antennas that I bought on eBay so unfortunately I don't know what he uses for a core but I'm quite happy with this configuration only using 6 watts. I haven't used an RF choke yet but I'm curious now if I'd see any difference or not.
I should try a longer wire, thanks!
Radio Prepper Yes Gil it’s a lot of fun to experiment with wires and ununs so I think longer is better in some cases. If you are looking to tune up on most bands there are specific lengths you want to stay away from. The wavelengths on most bands or even multiples can cause issues when tuning up. Check this article on Hamuniverse, it’s interesting and has several wire lengths to try. Take care Gil.
hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Radio Prepper Hi Gil. Thanks for all you share with us!
I also have Nelson Antennas 9:1 unun. I’m using appropriately 100 foot wire (didn’t measure) into a a tree about 50 or so feet up, running out my window about 7 feet off the ground, along with a 10 foot counterpoise. Only 6 foot coax to manual tuner, then coiled coax jumper from tuner to radio. Some bands internal tuner works. 80 and 160 needs external manual tuner. 40, 20, 17 and part of 6 works on internal.
I only run 10 watts but have had great success. Several contacts to Europe.
The wire was free, discarded antenna rotor control cable at a ham tailgate party. I had to make a jig to strip off sheath and unwind wire with a drill. Great wire and strong for its size!
Very 73, de N4WLC Bill
Gotta love repurposed junk! :-)
Another great video Gil, loving the Minion SDR. Our of curiosity, what is the SWR on the antenna side of the tuner? It would be good to see the loss to see how much of your RF is actually making its way to the antenna. 100% agree with the 49 or 64 to 1 transformer on a better option.
Good question, I didn't check!
Really enjoy your videos.
73 de
Aiden EI8HJB.
Always makes me laugh when you have the Foo Foo lol
This microphone could have its own channel ;-)
Very interesting Gil!! Great assembly, great analysis. Can the results also be expanded to a 49:1 or 64: 1 transformer? T106-2 works better too? 73 de PU5AMB
#2 material is not used for 49:1/64:1 transformers...
Gil, What is the best way to learn CW, in your opinion? 73 Kenneth LB9YH
th-cam.com/video/YJixhiExOcs/w-d-xo.html
Belle vidéo Rèmy, j'aimerais faire une paire de dipôles pour 27mhz comment puis-je vous contacter pour des infos sur comment les faire avec le ft 140-43 ? merci Roby🙏
Rèmy? Pas besoin de toroid pour une dipole... Voyez ma vidéo: "une antenne cb pour luc."
I tried to find your location on Google maps and La Vesubie search came back as a River 🙄. Just wondering which Mountain you where up. Lovely scenery.
Forgot to mention I like the Hat👍 Reminds me of the Sandimans Port Man on the Label of my late Mother's favourite drink.👍😊
LOL. Search "Granges de la Brasque."
Which do you think is better for a 49:1 or a 64:1 EFHW?
49:1 for 20m and up, 64:1 for 20m and below..
EFHW ? NOOB here
Multi-tap with a choice. And always, always, including at least 75:1 or even better, 81:1.
@@judd_s5643 nah not a noob good questions 7 3
@@judd_s5643 End-Fed Half-Wave, a type of wire antenna.
Hi I am a huge fan of 9:1 random wires , and also make my own . I use one about 20 meters long as my main base antenna in an inverted V . The swr on all bands does not need a tuner at all , ( I don't use 160m band) my worst swr is a 1.4 on 40m and 15m all other bands less than 1.2 swr . I also have a commercially made off center fed dipole that is supposed to need no tuner but no band is less than 2:1 swr and it is also much higher than the random wire and does not work anywhere near as well...... I tried an EFHW with a 49:1 and it was just terrible.... also brought online . I have to say my home built 9:1 unun antenna is awesome and performs great . Maybe it's my location , but I also have the same type antenna I take camping with my 5 watt sdr radio and it gets the same great swr and I usually make lots of contacts and get great reports. As proven with most antenna's your mileage may vary . Even though they call it a random wire antenna there are lengths of wire that work better than others , it's definitely worth experimenting with. Thanks for the great video's Gil I am a long time watcher 73
Surprising that the 49:1 did not perform, as it is the best antenna I have ever tried. Did you use a half-wave wire?
@@RadioPrepper It was a commercial made EFHW , I never measured it but would expect it to be a half wave length . It just never performed as advertised so I went to playing with the 9:1 random wire antenna's and had fantastic results and now I still use it today as my base antenna and for mobile opps and work the world on it....... a lot of france lately too.
i just ordered a ZM-2 tuner to use with my ic705
It is a good choice!
@@RadioPrepper thanks i will put it to good use
... great video.. I wonder what would happen if you glued the #43 core and the #2 core together, assuming they are the same physical size, and made an UnUn out of both...as you proved, it is well known that #2 shines 14 MHZ and above, whereas the 43 or even a 31 mix works better at the lower frequencies of 40 and 80... you have a NanoVNA so you could get an idea at home before heading to the hills for the test. Notice that the QRPGuys little POTA antennas for 40 and above use #2 material...their EFHW antennas which cover 80 use #43.
Probably wouldn't work IMHO.
The foufou mic is back!
I heard that LC coupling (like MFJ 16010) is more efficient than transformers on ferrite, but not tested yet... RA9QAT
Hi Vlad, that’s a very interesting concept, are you saying that one simple device could resolve the issues discussed for any random wire length? I would imagine losses due to heat are minimised. I’ve already over spent experimenting during lock down. Thanks for the heads up 👍🏻
@@mikes6844 Hi Mike! I guess device like MFJ16010 can help operate with random length wire (not resonant one). We can't use only 9 to 1 transformer without tuner, so I think it's better to use LC tuner specially designed for random wire antennas. In case of using 9:1 and automatic antenna tuner we have a kind of comfort, but loose efficiency. Last two years I use resonant end fed antenna - 20m wire with 64:1 transformer (PD7MAA) wich works on 40m, 20m and CB bands and have good results for local communications. I study using of random lenth antennas as quick deploying antennas for traveling and emergency when you can use 19m wire from 80 to 10m bands.
Gil have you tried your choke closer to your unun and then use a counterpoise. When I mean close I mean use a BNC to BNC male adaptor. BTW I learn a lot from your channel. Keep smiling and stay safe.
Not in this case, but I could have done that yes, it makes better sense. I guess the tuner was closer ;-)
It more a suggestion to remove the other “random” wire ie the coax braid, radio and DC power cable.
Oops, I will still have to use up my supply of FT-140-43 toroid's. Thanks for the excellent videos Gil.73's kd9oam
Make 49:1 and 64:1 transformers, plus a choke!
@@RadioPrepper Or use a counterpoise, it weights less ;)
#43 material is ideal for 9:1 UNUNs since it is designed for broadband HF transformers ;)
@@RadioPrepper Thank you my friend, I will use them. I never toss anything anyway cheers! kd9oam
For great results try a Guenella 9:1 UnUn on three FT114-43 cores.
Do you have a link for that?
@@RadioPrepper www.qsl.net/kh6grt/page4/balun/balun.htm
@@RadioPrepper See CJ link below
I use 10 bifilar turns of #22 wire on three FT114-43 cores. Works better than everything else I have ever tried.
Here are my SWR's with a 71 ft wire about 12 ft high in trees:
80M 5.1 - 4.2
40M 2. 3
20M 1.4 - 2.2
17M 2.9
15M 1.3
12M 2.3
10M 2.5 - 1.9
Now Gil, we are not to be bamboozled! I'm beginning to watch.. and the UNUN on my right, your left, is clearly marked 'Z' and then 1:6. The Z ratio is 1:6. Oh, this being about 30 seconds into the video. I think you may have, uh, written upside down :)
LOL!
Can you build and test the Wolfgang 9.1 unun please
I'll look it up..
It is the same as the EARCHI UNUN I tested and used in a few of my videos.
@@RadioPrepper No the lay out and spacing of the coils are very important here is a link th-cam.com/video/sk2ZZdJJrgY/w-d-xo.html
Do correct me if I am mistaken my friend
Ah thanks, I didn't see this because it was held for review, because of the link.. I'll have a look..
What about a -61 ?
?
I'm sorry I can't not see you talking into a troll doll. :) Thanks for the video however.
😆
Random wire 9 :1 unun is really a bad description for this antenna as the wire length is not really random and needs to be chosen so that their is no half wave length high impedance match. There are charts available on the internet of suitable lengths for this type of antenna. Great videos by the way.
Right, but what do we call it?
@@RadioPrepper How about - Non resonent end fed wire antenna. I am not criticising your use of the name for this antenna it is quite commonly used to describe it. I watched a review of such an antenna on TH-cam recently where they cut down the length such that it ended up at half a wave length on one of the bands and consequently wouldn't tune up. They contacted the manufacturer who explained the issue. It was then retested with the supplied antenna length and they were quite happy with its performance. It's just that the name given suggests that it will work with any length antenna wire.
That does sound better!
Hi Gil - in the test, did I hear correct, you were using 43 ft of wire with the 49:1 ? That would explain why it didn't work well, it wasn't a half wavelength. Hey, I need that chick-magnet T-shirt, I must buy one 😂
9:1, not 49:1
Indded, 41ft with a 9:1. See: th-cam.com/video/0zF7bDoqkG4/w-d-xo.html
Chick Magnet! 🤣🤣🤣
Your test is flawed, a random wire antenna is a non resonant antenna requiring the tuner to bring it to resonance, for this to happen efficiently the random wire requires a sufficient rf ground system not a short counterpoise, also any antenna requiring the use of a tuner requires a low loss feeder to minimize loss due to a higher attenuation from swr being in the line, if these requirements are implemented then you probably fine little noticeable difference in performance if any
I believe you said you had 8 meters of wire. This user ( th-cam.com/video/9eaAFTo5IQY/w-d-xo.html ) used 29 feet of antenna and had feed line significantly longer than 16 ft. She got on 40m and was able to make a contact from Wisconsin to West Virginia. The Smokin Ape (th-cam.com/video/9KPZO2-K76g/w-d-xo.html) was using 29.5 feet of antenna wire. I have ordered up my transformer materials and am going to make this and see what happens. Thanks for your videos. Maybe trying some different lengths of feed and counterpoise would be all it would take to give it another band.
You need to follow your dreams, and get back out on your boat, your story was, such a wonderful story, but now you are sidetracked. Time to change tracks, and do your ham radio on your boat.
I couldn't agree more...
excellent idea that would be wonderful to see this. 7 3
Yes, quite often, people don't care about the underlying science about the material with which a transformer is made. Any transformer is good for a range of frequencies and not below or above. Then comes the properties like saturation, bulk resistivity, Curie temperature and so on that characterise the behavior of the transformer. Fundamental facts remain unaltered.
Are you no the wrong Ch with that in your face lol 73