I like the struggling to fight creatures and having to be smart about it so the braindead lame bandits just conflicted with that fun creative thinking I had to do which made it less interesting imo
@@kingty2550 I only met Nil twice on my entire playthrough. Once for the first bandit camp, once on the mountain top at the very end. Never came across him for any of the other camps!
As an extra challenge try a stealth kill only run-through. I've seen them online and without spoiling it the poster actually nailed a stealth kill on the Frozen Wilds bandit king and he literally starts the fight knowing that Aloy is there.
The main story for me was a kind of take it or leave it affair, but the back story and the slow revelation of what happened to the world was incredible. The dissonance between the sinking feeling of quiet dread as the story of the Faro Plague unravels, and the knowledge that somehow life survived drove me on to find the next piece of the puzzle, and the next, and the next...and still the mystery deepens. And you keep asking yourself "Surely Horizon Zero Dawn worked, right? Right...?". And then you find General Aaron Herres's recording at U.S Robot Command, and the enormity of what happened to the Earth that was comes crashing down... The growing horror at the truth of Operation: Enduring Victory, and the sacrifices made by people based upon a lie sold to save a world. And later on you find that one final, more personal sacrifice was made to save Project Horizon Zero Dawn. A single person's actions distilling an entire race's hope to save life on planet Earth. The trail of breadcrumbs that fills you in doesn't end there, and bit by bit the game allows you to build a world picture of what happened to get to this point in time. Some of it is little tidbits that make you go "Oh, so that's why such and such is the way it is!" to major plot points that were left hanging for a sequel. I mean fighting robot dinousaurs and megafauna is cool and all, but without an emotional lynchpin to hold the story together it was never going to amount to more than "Oh, that's cool..." and be forgotten about, weeks later. As it is, the backstory had me gushing to my friends for months afterwards.
Personally, I saw the revelation of Aloy being a clone coming from a mile away. Same with the world being destroyed and remade. The only interesting thing for me was the details: the small stories, tribal politics, and the logs. As for gameplay, don't get me started. Hopefully they learn some things from Breath of the Wild's success.
Well said and I agree. With the story, it wasn’t until I was climbing what I dubbed Faro Tower (reminded me of Avengers Tower) and discover just how hopeless everything was and the enormity of the lie they sold to the entire human race... The feeling of dread and horror sunk in. To think of such an overwhelming enemy you have literally no hope against except to let the entire world die and terraform it after all humans are gone is amazing. The slow introduction into the story and discovering new information while still feeling absolutely clueless really got me invested. Even early on in the war when humanity was mass murdering the machines they immediately realized the machines could replace their losses much faster than humanity could destroy them. You even learn of countries just nuking half the planet to buy mere days for Zero Dawn. The US pulling out of Vietnam as the swarm overran them, the Vietnamese soldiers committing friendly fire as the US troops abandoned them, how hard it was for generals to accept their was no alternative but to throw citizens at the machines just to buy literal seconds for Zero Dawn... The constant lies from the military and Faro, altered messages and recording from and to family, how the soldiers felt, listening to soldiers mock Zero Dawn and the military, realizing they’re not meant to win, citizens having full blind faith in the militaries winning, hearing about the fall of Europe and the silence before the Americas were invaded in mass, how slowly the machines began to act out by killing off species and marine life... The story was amazing and had a lot of depth.
I cannot help but feel that half the time you complain about a game for doing a thing then you complain about another game for not doing it. for example you were upset that stealth combat in this game is too easy but you felt its too hard the evil within
Cauldrons were honestly some of my favourite parts of the game. They were a pleasant change of environment. Plus they looked just really awesome. And especially the first one had a sense of mistery to it, great stuff id say.
19:20 The Nora woman that drags Rost back across the border is never named but she is outcast for her trouble. It is most likely Odd Grata, the old outcast woman that Rost or Aloy occasionally bring food to.
That never gets mentioned, only that because she lost two children to the outlaws herself, she didn't care if it risked being made an outcast crossing the border. Plus, being outcast wasn't always a life sentence, the brother with schizophrenia was only outcast for a few years; and he might have accidentally killed the guy bullying him.
One thing that I. Did when I fought the corrupted rock breaker was to basically get a bunch of big machines to start chasing me (behemoths, snapmaws, shell-walkers, and a bunch of long legs) those machines chased me into the corrupted zone then immediately began engaging the rock breakers because of the corruption. The rock breakers were able to take out an insane amount of the machines but sustained enough damage for me to kill it. I thought the variety for how you engage machines is extremely strong
Gameplay variety is directly connected to gameplay difficulty. Easy or story is simply is a terrible way to play, maybe normal too easy too?. So much of the gameplay is knowing what's best to take down a specific machine/having fun with going about said task. If you're on too easy of a difficulty, you can spam the first bow and arrow you get in the game until final mission, thus watering down the game.
Madnam I pale in comparison to youtubers like matthewmatosis, Joseph Anderson, and Mr Caption, but I'm working to improve. If you have any tips or pointers then let me know. Thanks for subscribing!
I follow JosephAnderson on Patreon and let me tell you, I derive just as much pleasure from your videos as I do from his. Your Analysis is great and your humor is different from his, which makes it refreshing. Keep up the great work!
I’m a year late but I always go back and watch the back catalogue of people I subscribe to. Gaia saw Sobek as her mom. Gaia is scared and doesn’t know what to do, so she desperately tries to get her mommy back. I thought it was touching. And there’s an audiolog about the scientists finding out about the far zenith ship being destroyed by a meteor swarm or something. Then they REALLY are the last hope for humanity, and start panicking. I think i’m Remembering that right.
I think Sobek died not far from the facility and it was Gaia who found, her robots, the corpse. She would have known everything about Sobek. Sobek was after all, her creator, mentor and her friend. The body could have been moved to Sobek's home, found still standing and kept that way. The metal flower triangle around Sobek's remains, and elsewhere, were Gaia's memorial to her.
The metal flowers being a memorial would have had more impact for me if they popped up at significant places in the world that somehow related to Sobek or perhaps the old/new world ( nature ). As they are i'd agree they are to remember Sobek, but just seem random.
I really love these long-form game analysis videos and yours are no different. I'm really impressed by the quality, which is especially shocking considering it's your first video. Looking forward to that Andromeda review, and I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks very much. There were a lot of learning experiences producing this video! The Andromeda video should be up either Thursday or Friday depending on time to render/upload.
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I really like your analysis, but I want to say something about HADES:The way I understood it, HADES was only implemented as a failsafe in case GAIA would become 'too life loving'. GAIA should restore and preserve life on earth, but it was possible (maybe even likely) that she messed up her first tries. The world could end up with an eco-system that could not sustain human life. In that case there was no guarantee that GAIA would destroy her own creation (and therefor life) to start over again. Then, and only then, should HADES (by force, if necessary) take control and totally destroy existing life to create a 'blank slate' for GAIA to make another try. To achieve this, HADES should use ressources that were already present - the Faro robots.Maybe I missed something in the logs, by I don't remember GAIA ever saying that the current world was her first try. It is possible that HADES had to take over multiple times and eradicated multiple eco-systems, before earth ended up with a successful construction.
You could be right about it not being GAIA's first attempt. I still think it's weird that destroying the planet would ever be a better approach than trying to improve it. If GAIA has created some form of life, then surely the Earth can be adapted and improved with humans. And if she hasn't, then she wouldn't mind destroying her own creation and started again (because there wouldn't be much to destroy). I don't know, I think it's a bit weird, but it didn't stop me loving the story. It's something I can put to the back of my mind.
It's definetely weird and not a great idea, but then again, weird ideas brought humankind in the story to the point of extinction :)I just wanted to say that it made sense, and I have to confess that I was really happy about just that. Too many books, movies and games put way too little thought into their stories, Mass Effect Andromeda being a prime example of that.
You are pretty much correct. The HADES protocol was an absolute last resort. The whole point of GAIA was to bring the earth back to a point where humans could exist and thrive. If for some reason the biosphere she created wasn’t viable for humans to thrive, it wouldn’t be logical to keep troubleshooting an inherently broken system. Like a prototype that is kind of what you want, but not the finished product. You learn from your error and start over. HADES as the blank slate protocol was intended to give GAIA the opportunity to reset and go for it again. There was no deadline on any of this. The likelihood HADES would ever have been triggered was slim to none. It was a complete last resort. In the data, HADES was controversial. Not everyone was on board with it. But the consensus was order out of chaos. It was decided a failsafe was necessary in case shit hit the fan. HADES is totally something 21st century humans would think of. There was no turning back after Apollo was destroyed by Ted though. He essentially created a situation where humanity would have to truly start from scratch. They were forced out into the world prematurely. As soon as environmental conditions were stable for fauna, the humans had to be released. By my estimation based on the tribal history, humans have been out in the open for around 750 years or so. The year is actually exactly 3030 when Aloy sets out as a seeker. Chances humanity would make it out there on their own without Apollo’s basic education let alone the, what Faro thought to be Toxic history was pretty slim. Who knows how it all worked in the other facilities around the world. At least in central USA where the story takes place, there must have been enough reproductive humans to get to critical mass population where it became self sustaining obviously. Then, around 19 years before we go out as a seeker, that rogue signal hit. This prematurely triggered HADES as we know and the rest is history. I don’t think GAIA had more than one try. There isn’t room in the timeline. I also don’t think it matters to HADES if humans are there or not for it to initiate extinction protocol. It’s likely though, if it was ever triggered, it was designed to be before humans were released, but again... they were let out prematurely. Probably at least a generation too early. I think the plan was that there would be at least one naturally born generation before they were let out, if Apollo had stayed online. I am definitely not making sense anymore. Lost my flow. Good times. Lol. Peace.
One more point for Chris... in your video you referenced that it’s weird they didn’t just try and shelter the existing humans and let them have kids and try and repopulate. That wouldn’t be possible. It took at least 200 years after the end of everything for Gaia to terraform and get the earth to a point where it could sustain animal life. They would have had to have sustained hundreds of people for 200+ years with no breathable air from the outside to pump in, no way to produce food after stores ran out, and so on... Gaia didn’t trigger the “birth” of the new human race until conditions were correct. Approx 750 years before we get to play Aloy. That’s about 230-240 years after the end of everything.
About the Faro Plague, remember when the machines started attacking? That was because of a glitch that severed the machines from their controls and caused them to go rouge. Now this should sound similar because its what happened to Gaia subordinate functions! So I'm guessing that whatever caused the Faro plague in the first place was also responsible for giving Gaia's subordinate functions sentience!
Aliens! That does sound rather convenient now that you mention it. I got so caught up in hating Ted Faro that I never noticed both problems were caused by a glitch. I hope you're wrong though, because it would create a few narrative problems in my opinion. First, if there's another party involved, then the original Faro Plague isn't Ted Faro's fault after all. Or at least, not entirely his. I currently love how contemptible he is as a character, so I don't want him to end up getting redeemed. It also presumably means that the real "big bad" hasn't been seen yet. I prefer it when stories introduce the bad guys early on so you get to know them a bit before they appear and give some evil speech. Just a personal preference of course. I think the Far Zenith project has the most potential for a cool sequel, because then you'd be dealing with humans who have potentially been raised in space or on another planet. There's a lot of cool directions Guerrilla could take that. It's been a long time since a video game has had me so intrigued about it's story and future!
Chris Davis Yes I know how awesome it would be for the Far Zenith project to be where Gurellia games would take things but if they were to go the "glitch" route I think Faro would still be held accountable for not only building unlikable death machines but purging Apollo! Also why not both?
I think that you are a bit unfair on the Cauldrons. =) At a lower difficulty level, I get that they can be a bit underwhelming, but on the harder difficulties, the Cauldrons offer some of the hardest tactical challenges of the game. You are fighting enemies in confined spaces, and sometimes without any cover. The Cauldrons were some of the best sneaking excercises, and the Cauldron bosses were some of the most difficult fights as you had no environmental factors on your side.
Anna Blixt I tend to agree. While not the best area of the game, they offered a lot for me. My first cauldron was actually quite challenging. I was underequipoed and had almost no strategy worked out for most of the tougher machines. When I first went up against that bellowback in the first cauldron, it was intense. It was actually the first bellowback I saw and I had a hard time with it and with the watchers jumping around everywhere. I ended up setting a shitload of tripwires everywhere and got him that way, with a few fire arrows too. Lol. Now, they are a piece of cake, but when you have little strategy and weak weapons, they are for sure challenging. They made me feel like I was in the heart of the beast and I dug that.
This guy plays games on normal or even easy and complains about gameplay literally all the time. He could maybe do himself a favor and actually play on a difficulty that forces him to use that noggin he's got.
I must be one of the few people that doesn't think Silens has any malicious intent with what's left of Hades. I think he is still just after knowledge, but he will unwittingly unleash something...unpleasant. I kinda hope that the cryo-ark mission comes back. Would be a nice contrast to the 'primitive' tribes and peoples currently on the earth.
Luciferkrist He is only interested in knowledge but he is also rather unconcerned with collateral damage in his pursuit of that knowledge. Makes him very dangerous.
Knowledge isn't evil, it is power. Like power it is the use which dictates morality. A similar and unrelated statement is the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.....
Press X to Start and after the sequel’s trailer, I have more than a feeling that Sylens “consequencs be damned” mindset pursuit for knowledge will come back to bite back and while he has helped in the past whose to say he wont show his true colors?
I still find new channels all the time and wonder how I've never stumbled on them before. I watch loads of analytical video game content and yet TH-cam doesn't do a very good job of recommending new people to me. Anyway, glad to have you on board!
I know I'm over a year late, but I want to say that this was a good analysis. However, you seem to have missed some things that explain exactly why HADES was needed and what HADES is supposed to do. HADES is needed to wipe out all life again because GAIA was incapable of intentionally harming living organisms. It was stated in a log (which you may have missed) to be a side effect of her emotional programming; she's essentially too loving. HADES was also never intended to wipe out life using the Faro robots, so your concerns about why that doesn't make sense are irrelevant. HADES was simply supposed to reverse the terraforming process and make the Earth temporarily lifeless again. When GAIA destroyed herself, she also destroyed the ability of HADES to actually access the terraforming systems, so it decided to use the Faro robots as a "backup plan" essentially. As for the end credits scene, what was shown WAS actually HADES being transmitted to Sylens' lantern. Part of the function of the lance was to cause the transfer. That's why Sylens tricked Aloy into using his lance for the final mission.
Hades flew out like a sprite in a fantasy world, not a technological transmission. And a lantern? They were definitely going for a genie vibe there, and that causes a dissonance with the logical nature of the narrative
@@Nimbus3690 I think the visual representation was poor, but the concept itself - a data transfer - is fine. They just should have shown it differently, like Sylens' staff having a dish open up and a light start blinking, and then show the lantern lighting up and turning red.
@Sobble I know what was being shown, I'm commenting on the execution of it. You don't do a smoldering orb effect for a wireless data transfer. They should have just shown some generic uploading sequence with a progress bar. It would have been better than the stupid magical scene they did instead
Fantastic Video. Only one little mistake I've spotted: When you explain Gaia and her Subsystems, you mention that the Deathbringer is the only non-Gaia created Robot. Actually it's the Corruptors, Deathbringers and Metal Devils that arent Gaia-based, instead being the three military designs Farro made. Corruptors (Originally Scarabs) are basically the service robots for the army. Their tail being able to repair themselves and other Farro-Robots. Deathbringers (Khopesch) are obviously the brute force, basically automated tanks. Finally, Metal Devils (Horus) are walking Factories, to which Biomass is fed to create additional Scarabs and Khopesch. They're also the only original machine type that arent active anymore, as you only see the big derelicts lying around (Which is a little sad, as I would have loved seeing them move). This is also why HADES tries to reactivate those 3 types. As soon as you get a handful of Scarabs and Khopesch Online, along with a Horus, you have an automated self replicating army, that feeds on the very thing it hunts. And Horus would be beyond any measure the primitive tribes could muster against them.
The medicine pouch sounds like it's meant for healing *between* battles while the potions sound like they're meant for healing *during* battle. This is a common mechanic in pen-and-paper RPGs. There are abilities that take seconds to pull off and are meant to be used in battle, then there are abilities that take minutes to pull off and usually provide more "bang-for-your-buck" but aren't feasible during battle. In Dungeons and Dragons there's a spell called "goodberry" that provides more overall healing than the same-level "cure wounds" spell, but it's not useful during battle. It makes it important to try to ration your healing. If you're in a battle and you need healing, but the battle's almost over, do you blow your "cure wounds" spell or do you try to finish the battle, then use "good berries" and maybe save your "cure wounds" for the next battle?
The way I used them was like this: in the beginning where I had lower amounts of health I'd use it and save potions for dire moments. Around where my health got to like 550 and my armor was good and could take some hits, I'd use small ones to get it up quick then use the medicine to fill in small bits left that would only waste a potion. The full ones obviously for high critical moments and the 150 extra health ones if I k we a tough fight was coming This (excluding the last part) became my go to way late game and it worked quite well. Once I got this down to almost instinctively, I noticed my medicine rarely went down too far so it worked well
Absolutely fantastic critique and pretty much sums up my thoughts on the game. Guerrilla did use lots of open world tropes and cribbed from contemporaries to make Horizon, which sometimes can be a little detrimental. But damn if they didn't make each part they borrowed so polished and fun and, if it was not so great, easily ignorable. The flowers are pretty pointless but easy to skip. Crafting and inventory can be annoying but it's only something that needs to be done fairly infrequently and then, it's real smooth and easy. And it has to be said, this is their very first attempt at this type of game. I just find it so impressive that the game is as good as it is.
I really enjoyed this, and man, I hate Ted Faro so much. He's such a well written villain, you can see exactly why he does what he does, but in doing so, he damns humanity twice. It's an excellent scene. Keep it up, man, enjoyed your ME:A video as well! Hope your channel grows.
Skip cauldrons? NO. Being able to override Sawtooths, Snapmaws, Thunderjaws is so much fun and very strategic. Who doesn't want to see a Thunderjaw reek havoc on the other machines? Or turn Sawtooth lose? You're missing out on all the fun if you skip the overrides. Using them to your advantage is priceless. I think you just don't have any imagination. When you learn to use all the tools, the ropecaster, which is essential, the tripcaster to control the battlefield, the overrides, these are the tools that take the gameplay to another level.
If I remember correctly there was also a line Elizabeth says to Faro something like 'if they find out where the glitch came from...' that made me think it wasn't an actual glitch but something Faro did intentionally without realising the repercussions. which considering he was an arms dealer selling to everyone isn't so far fetched. I'd love for him to be the villain in the sequels as it will continue the contrast between our familiar world and the game's. As for Hades, I understood it to be less about destroying humanity and more about destroying all life, with the idea that if Gaia got the atmosphere and plant and animal life wrong for humans the first time around she will be too sentimental to destroy it and try again. I agreed with you on most things about this game, especially inventory management (there should really be a way to filter and sort inventory) and the melee combat and I really enjoyed this video and your opinions. I'm always on the lookout for well thought out and edited game critiques and I'm glad I stumbled across yours, subscribed to make sure I won't miss your next one.
That first glitch has me confused. I can't decide if there's more to it, or if it's just a story thing that they don't have a particular explanation for. I love the Ted Faro character and definitely want to see him again. However, if he's going to be the main villain then I want there to be a decent reason for him to come back. I don't just want Gorrilla to make up a weak excuse because he's popular. He's an awesome character though, which is quite an accomplishment, considering that we only saw him in hologram form. Thanks for watching and subscribing. Working on the next video now.
Lotem Rose What you are referring to... yes. Faro did intentionally have the robots ship with a self-replicating feature that led to the relentless biomass consumption. Wasn’t a glitch. Was a design element that he didn’t anticipate the consequences of and by the time he figured out what it would lead to it was too late and he hid it from the public. He revealed it to Elizabet to release his guilt to some extent. He knew he had just committed the worst mistake in the history of humanity. He had to confess to someone. Elizabet then committed him to funding a think tank that would try and find a solution. Ultimately we know now what the only possible outcome was.
I thought that Hades was just given the role of resetting the planet, NOT necessarily with the Faro robots. Given that he's an unchained AI, I had interpreted it that "he" decided that use of the Faro robots was the most efficient way to cause extinction, not that the robots were a part of his original programming. It doesn't completely fix the Hades issue, but I think it makes it like 10% less completely stupid.
The opening scene where you see the thunder jaws... yes. They shouldn’t technically be there. Makes for a pretty epic visual though, doesn’t it? Probably an intentional oversight by the devs. Nothing wrong with a slight continuity bending epic opener. Most people who play probably don’t pick up on it. Doesn’t bother me really but yes. It’s not really correct.
He was given a role, to restart earth but since Gaia blew herself up, he couldn’t use the terraforming system to restart earth so he had to use the faro machines.
Hey man. I think its really cool you're doing these long-form reviews. You see a lot of short 5-10 minute videos out there that all end up just covering the exact same broad strokes; there aren't enough people that really dive into the meat of things like this. Looking forward to hearing your opinions on Andromeda.
1:57:14 Travis Tate in his audio logs mentions that hades is to kick in during the terraforming phase if atmosphereic conditions are not adequate BEFORE releasing humans into it.
@@-pressxtostart- yes, in the context of how he used the word (which was bad). Its a wet map on the character model on top of the rest like the alpha, normal, roughness, bump, erc.) texture maps.
Dude, wow, you have maintained a consistently high quality in your work since the very beginning of your videos, that's admirable. If I wasn't already subbed, I would sub right now. Great content, you definitely deserve more subs.
Your videos helped get me through a lot of paperwork at my job today, and I love how long your videos are! It's clear that you take video games seriously, and I'm so happy that someone actually goes this into detail when it comes to game reviews/critiques because I always feel like most others leave out a lot of things. Kudos to you! Horizon Zero Dawn had a great story, and I thought your critique was pretty positive and honest. I also suspect that the Odyssey is alive and kicking, and I hate Ted Faro with a passion and I commend you for calling him out on his selfish reasons for killing the Alphas since I've seen too many "Ted Faro was not a bad guy" posts online. I hope you do a critique of the Witcher 3 and the two DLCs because those stories forever changed me (much like the Mass Effect Trilogy and Walking Dead game series). I look forward to more of your videos!
Glad to hear the videos helped! I saw all those Ted Faro posts as well and wondered if I'd played a different game! I have a weird relationship with Witcher 3. It might just be my favorite game of all time, but I can't bring myself to finish the final DLC. I don't want it to be over. My dream project is to go back the the first Witcher and do videos on the entire trilogy, but it's such a huge project that I'd need to be doing this full time before taking that one. That's the dream though.
FlyBaby "at his very core" Sure, not like you`re defined in your very essence by your occupation or anything, all lawyers are analytical by nature, not like it`s anything less or more than a result of your human nature.. Lol, make assumptions much? :p
Very good critque/breakdown of one of my all time favorites game.. so glad you enjoyed horizon so immensely and I do hope that more people get to play and experience this game it was so good.. overall very nice video, keep 'em coming!
"The game doesn't do a great job of explaining the Derangement" I would say they go into quite a lot of detail as far as what the characters actually know about the Derangement and then we learn much more later on through the DLC about how once the Subroutines got disconnected from Gaia they started getting Hostile towards Humans only because Humans were destroying the functions of their work.
I had to fight to get into this game, because during the whole game I never once really cared about all the tribal shit and skipped past most of the sidequest dialogue and only stuck around for the meat of that part of the story. However I got hooked when exploring everything that had to do with the past with no one screaming about all-mother in the back. In addition, I agree on Hades being very contrived, but not to the extent you seem to think it is. Hades would step in and exterminate all life on the planet long before humans would be created, even before animal life would be created as plant life would be needed to create a livable biosphere.
RE: The Hades Sub-routine. I accept the idea of the killswitch for a couple of reasons. Gaia is programmed only to create life; she can't jeopardise it. Since a viable ecosystem is too complex for her to compute, it is expected that she will have to experiment and iterate until she gets it right. Allowing that to naturally run its course over and over would take a very long time. To negate some of the risk that comes with a protracted project (like the infrastructure decaying, the earth further destabilising, etc.), Hades checks whether things are working and if not hits reset.
The gameplay is amazing TF . You get what you put into it . Its incredibly deep . The simple fact You can beat the entire game by making other robots fight each other ( overrides) is amazing . Instead of luring enemy's into traps I would lure them to an overiden BOT . Just yesterday I Overrid a ravenger . he went to town on the other one nearby when suddenly a convoy of shellwalkers and long legs joined in.
@@oh-not-the-bees7872 yeah its so fun in breath of the wild when you get clubbed in the head and dont have your brain splattered or in any fps where a knife is an insta kill and a bullet isnt.. dumb ass
Ehh I see what you’re trying to say but the overrides and some of the other stuff was super shallow and didn’t offer a lot of super interesting gameplay options. Overriding was def very underwhelming. Hopefully in the next one we can ride all the creatures we override!
Just speaking as someone that doesn’t have a PS, I really liked this style of review/analysis. It’s was a great was to experience a game that I was interested in but couldn’t experience. Thanks for the video!
Hey man, dunno if you'll read this but I recently finished up playing Horizon Zero Dawn: Complete Edition since I got it for $10 during Black Friday and after having 100%'d it and getting the platinum, I decided to TH-cam some critique videos on it to see what a more critical outlook on the game would feel like, hence, finding your video. Here are a few things that stood out to me. 15:48 - Your remark on The Proving was something I felt but didn't voice verbally. I think they could have The Proving far more epic and a pivotal moment in the story and one of the most memorable early point moments in the game. Something that could have captured audiences and new players instantly, and instead it's the most basic vanilla form of the game possible. In hindsight, they could have done A LOT more with this to make it notable than it merely serve as an entrance for the main enemy, The Eclipse. 27:00 - In terms of some side content, I thought they did a great job of making the un-fogging devices a spectacle with how majestic the Tallnecks are. For me, their coolness never wore off. As for cauldrons I have to admit I dreaded these sections. I'm not a fan of utterly basic as hell puzzles and annoying climbing, the only bits I enjoyed were over-riding the core and fighting the big machine that awaited towards the end. Anything up till that point was monotonous, at least for me. I also felt exactly as you mentioned that I almost never used the override function, so the payoff was never there for me and instead it was just checking another thing off the checklist. 31:30 - Weird admission, I bizarrely enjoyed the Bandit Camps and Nil's storyline. I don't know why. I just enjoyed sniping bandits with arrows? I dunno, for me it kinda fun. I thought it was hilarious that Nil wanted to fight at the end and I blew him to bits with my sling bombs. The way he dies is pretty humorously as well with a last gast. 33:00 - I was going for the Hunting Grounds - Blazing Suns Gold Trophy while doing the main story so I didn't have the same problem as you with ignoring these, and yeah I'd like to see I loved these challenges. They were fun, a nice contained arena, and actually benefited my gameplay with helping to teach me how to take down a Thunderjaw rather than just plunking it's weak spots with 200 arrows. I also had the EXACT same issue with you dealing with tutorials. By the end of the game, I had 25+ all asking me to do things I had do a hundred times simply because they don't register if you don't make them a main focus. 50:40 - Quick story from me. After taking down the Corrupter at the Carja gate, I was going on my way to the next main quest. I had stopped to fight some Broadheads I believe and left the game unpaused while I searched whatever the hell I was doing on my compute. Out of nowhere, a Stormbird comes and kicks my ASS and I am left thinking "how the hell do I fight THAT" since it was unlike anything I had faced up until that moment. I retreated, came back to try and fight it, but with my weapons not being good enough I died twice to it and ultimately decided to just run past it and flee. Ropecasters make them fairly easy later in the game, but early on they are a menace. Glad to hear you give voice to it in this video. I'm also glad that you had your own personal story of fighting a Thunderjaw just as I did. I feel like one of the coolest effects HZD gives off is running around the open world and stumbling upon a "I WANNA FIGHT THAT" vibe, something that more games should provide since it's very likely you'll always remember that new-found experience. 1:02:02 - Your frustration with a skill tree / leveling system / crafting / inventory management is something voiced by another critique TH-camr called Joseph Anderson who I love watching. He agrees with you that it's often tedious, boring, and unnecessary but hey if the leaf symbol is there you "HAVE" to hold triangle and get it, because if you don't you're losing out. Personally I don't mind it, but I understand those who do. 1:37:00 - Horizon Zero Dawn is the prettiest PS4 game I have ever played I also don't play a TON of Triple A titles, so hey. I'm also glad you mentioned Lance Reddick's magnificent voice acting. I love the way he portrayed Sylens. 1:43:00 - I hated the climbing in HZD personally, and I don't have anything to compare it to since I've never played Uncharted or Tomb Raider. It was incredibly frustrating to try and find what specific magical ledge I had to leap up to in order to start the sequence. I'm glad they didn't have the spamming X problem but honestly, why couldn't they have simply made it so it highlights on your focus? Seems like such a minor thing but it would improve traversing terrain monumentally. 2:03:00 - I'm so glad you said this was your favorite story moment in the game! It's a scene that's stuck with me a few days after playing. The way the music rises as the ventilating system goes off, as well as the screaming at Faro was extremely well done. 2:15:10 - Can I say I'm a bit disappointed you didn't talk much more about Helis' death? For me I choose the confrontation option since I felt like Aloy had enough fire in her(that was cannon) that she would hope it'd hurt Helis when he died because he had killed Rost. Her telling him to turn towards the sun was an incredibly badass moment in my opinion. 2:15:45 - I also felt this. I was hoping for a badass enemy at the end that we hadn't seen before, not another Deathbringer albeit more powerful. I know that it wouldn't have made much sense for it to be a moving animal like a Thunderjaw but something more epic could have been done with this final battle. That being said, going against it on Ultra Hard Mode was freakishly difficult which I appreciated since at least it gave a challenge. Overall, I'm glad you enjoyed the game and thanks for an awesome critique!
I made it to the end, whew, that was a long piece of critique. I enjoyed the video, quite a lot actually; I don't agree to most of the extreme nitpicks, but hey, we just mean that we have different opinions and I respect that. One thing though bothered me and, if I may, I will try to explain myself. I'm an old gamer and I mean pong-old, not just NES or SNES-old so I've seen my fair share of systems and games. Over the years I've seen very minimalistic and simple games evolve into complete experiences with combat, exploration, stealth, crafting, collectibles, puzzles etc. etc. Now, unfortunately, I've noticed a tendency with 3A games of late to go back to their roots, back to a minimalistic or rather a simpler approach. Not every game suffered from it, mind you (see the souls series for example) but still I wish we weren't going in that direction once again. So when you said that you wished Guerrilla removed inventory management, crafting and skills I died a bit inside. If you remove that what's left? Going from place to place, eventually combat and jumping around... PLEASE, don't turn Horizon into a God of War with a better story, I want to DO something (or at least being given the impression of doing something) in videogames rather than pushing a directional stick and mashing a button to interact or attack.
Yeah, it was a little long. Probably too long to be honest. I think I actually agree with your comment, which probably means I didn't do a good job explaining my points in the original video. Probably a symptom of it being a first one. To respond to your points: With inventory management, it's not so much that I want to remove the ability to collect things, but it's the need to constantly sell or drop items because my inventory has reached an arbitrary limit. For skills, I like having the skills themselves, I just don't feel like it's a great reward for leveling up. In other words, I want to be able to do all the things you can do with the skills, but I don't feel the need for them to be slowly unlocked in the way they are. E.g. the whistle from the bushes. What I would love to see is skills that show real character growth. So let's imagine Aloy has reached level 10. Maybe at that point she can do something she couldn't before like climb on to a moving machine for a few hits or add in a new move to the end of her combo string. As it stands, the skills are just stat boosts which you don't notice or incredibly basic moves that should have been included from the start. On the crafting point... I still think crafting can be done well and in a way that's meaningful but I don't think many games pull it off. What is crafting in Horizon, really? It's usually an extra step you have to take before firing more arrows. I rarely went out of my way to collect materials for ammo and couldn't even tell you what materials you needed for that off the top of my head. I just collected loads of stuff as I moved around the world. I don't mind collecting materials for specific armor. That felt a touch more meaningful and I'd like more things along those lines. What about being able to collect materials and craft custom armor to suit your needs? That would be cool. However to collect stuff for armor, I first had to collect fox skins to expand my inventory which was just an unnecessary extra step. I definitely don't want Horizon to turn into God of War either, it's just at the moment it feels like it has things in the game to tick marketing boxes without them really adding anything to the experience. Anyway, that's where I was coming from with those criticisms. I probably didn't explain myself very well as it was my first video. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. If not, we can obviously just agree to disagree.
Man, watching this after finding it from the standard TH-cam rabbit hole, years after the video was uploaded...is kinda making me wanna throw this game back in the old ps4... Oh yeah, and that Tinkerer skill is a must... Edit: almost forgot: put it on hard mode for a much more enjoyable experience...if you're that kinda gamer. Guess I am.
Great job. I have to echo the compliment of a previous commenter -- I like that you talked about the story in multiple parts. It really allowed you to talk about some of the more interesting late-game story stuff in more depth. I hope you keep this up! Subscribed :)
GAIA kept Hephaestus from creating machines to kill humans. Hephaestus was designated with creating machines to complete the other subordinate functions’ tasks. If Poseidon needs to purify water, Hephaestus would create a Snapmaw with a filtration system and ability to melt ice or freeze water as needed. As humans started slaughtering these machines in mass, Hephaestus wanted to build machines to defend the terraforming and task related machines. GAIA refuses to let Hephaestus harm humans and preferred to sacrifice machines to the humans. This set back and hindered tasks, but due to GAIA caring about life she didn’t care. Once GAIA went offline, the subordinate functions went “rogue”, “deranged”, or “unstable”. This is a misguided understanding of these functions. Hephaestus was always going to create machines to defend other machines, but GAIA refused the request. GAIA was the mother function and no subordinate function could bypass her. No one except Hades, who was designed solely to get around GAIA. For example, Demeter would have always requested Hephaestus to create machines to defend Demeter’s “gardeners” and flora. If humanity became a risk to all flora, Demeter would have defended the flora from humanity. Its function was to create and preserve fauna in the new world. It wouldn’t have sit back and let all its work be undone, except GAIA made Demeter sit and watch. Without the shackles of GAIA, all subordinate functions would take their tasks far more literal. Protect fauna at all costs, protect flora at all costs, purify the water at all costs. GAIA was the function to create limitations and determine what is and is not a necessary sacrifice. If a human cuts down a tree to build a house, Artemis would want to kill the human. GAIA sees this as unreasonable and denied Artemis’ request. Just my interpretation of GAIA’s relationship with all the subordinate functions and how they became “deranged”. Also, Hades was built out of a fear of GAIA failing. If GAIA created a world which was unsustainable, GAIA never would have reset or continued trying. Why? Because GAIA never would have been okay with killing any life to create new life. If the world could only sustain aquatic animals, GAIA wouldn’t risk the aquatic life to create sustainable room for humans. Hades would wipe the slate clean, tell GAIA to learn from her mistakes, and have her try again. Terraforming the planet would cause catastrophic damage to ecosystems and kill species off in mass. GAIA would never have been okay with causing the extinction of even the most insignificant of insects. She felt sorrow over the death of a species of birds. This is why Hades was so important. It’s not just an unsuccessful attempt to create life, but if a successful attempt to create life wasn’t good enough to sustain all necessary life. Hades had to do what GAIA would always refuse to do; end life to create life. Sacrifice. Try again.
Regarding the genetics thing and Aloy not being a perfect match, I don't know exactly how much change there is or how fast, but as we age certain parts of our genetic materials change, so technically after time passes not even Elisabet Sobeck would be an identical match to a younger Elisabet Sobeck, so there could've been an allowed margin to account for changes short of a perfect match
human cells do mutate over time. All human cells (including brain ones) are updated (they die and replaced with the new ones) in 7 years (for our species, other animals have different span of the same process) schedule (so humans are clones, lol, this is dreadful truth that the original person vanished being somewhat 7 years old and we are a replication of replication of him\her, not the entirely same person cause there are mistakes in replications from time to time) and are object of mutations which effectively makes 100% DNA's match insufficient to know that it's the same person, while 95% match (in particular species DNA's) would be totally ok.
Love that you called out the NPC's ridiculously stupid comments when Aloy first sneaks past the mechs with her focus on. Breathtakingly stupid. I think you undersold how dumb that part is, quite frankly.
On my first play through I missed so many side objectives and playing through it again now I think I've already sunk more hours into it than I originally did. They're easy to miss if you don't explore everything but we'll worth the time, I'm enjoying this play through so much more than the first. Particularly enjoyed the hunting lodge storyline. Great vid as always Chris!
The cauldrons are a huge help for higher difficulty playthroughs. The watchers with good AI rng can kill sabertooth level enemies. In fact a single machine can turn the tide of nearly ALL battles in the game, so avoiding overrides can be a way to further increase difficulty....
The War Bows main advantage is as a tactical use weapon. The right shot in the right spot can freeze not just the Machines you're fighting but anything in the area. (including Aloy so be careful) It's immensely satisfying to nail a difficult shot on a moving target but of course the trade off is potentially getting stomped while you're trying to get your shot off. Let me put it this way, if you're good enough to know that freezing the cooling elements under a Thunderjaw will freeze anything in the area then you likely already know it's easier to shot the disc launcher off and fire at it's exposed sides. Corruption Zones are the novice machine rider's best friend. The tactics and strategies you develop taking down Corrupted Machines will give you a massive advantage during gameplay when you cannot override a machine to get a combat friend
you don't need to do the hunting lodges in any particular order. I accidentally completed the nora hunting grounds first(because I put off the first one I was introduced to and the quest/errand)
I always took her creating aloy as a time crunch thing... She had to figure out something quick... She had no team... And she defaulted to what felt safe...
My favourite part that I don't think you mentioned was that the life-giving All-Mother goddess, was quite literally that. Gaia, Mother Earth, who gave life to them all.
I know I'm way too late, a few years down the line and having had a lot of discussion, there's a bit more consensus on the some story bits that are crucial and that you didn't get exactly right here. Which is understandable, the story in Horizon is amazing but it does ask a lot from you to really get it and I get you wanted to make the video instead of finding every single audio and text file. First of all, as already mentioned, the game's timeline is in no way clear, with Hades probably reseting the terraforming process at least a couple times, maybe more. Some people have guessed based on the rock formations in caves that at least 15000 years must have passed. Secondly, as also already mentioned, Hades isn't necessarily meant to use the Faro machines to do his thing. His function is to restart the process if it's clear the terraforming has gone wrong in the sense that it can support life but not human life. I think you might be thinking of this as if there are already some animals, or complex organisms rather, but a more likely scenario is something not so advanced in time. Like, if there is an atmosphere and oceans that support bacteria and unicellular organisms, GAIA would consider that very much as precious life. But what if to get everything from there to a point where human life may exist it turns out that the amount of time that must pass if way longer than GAIA's estimated operational time. She is built to last, but surely she isn't eternal and she can't afford to take risk with thing taking longer than maybe some thousands of years, at most. Therefore, it would be better to reset things, and Hades is there to make sure she doesn't let a few bacteria maybe even algae or whatnot, stop her from doing what must be done. He most likely wouldn't need the destructive capabilities of the Faro war machines for this kind of thing, and could very well be able to just use the Zero Dawn resources to do achieve it. That would make sense and be a totally justifiable reason for his presence. I don't think it's as contrive as you, and I actually thought it made a lot more sense to have something like that rather than just hoping for everything to work out well enough that Earth could simply be recovered first try. Finally, regarding the subordinate functions being "freed". My personal theory is that the Far Zenith actually did fail, but its copy of Apollo is still intact. But more importantly, there is mention in some data files about a sort of activist hacker group. My theory is that they accidentally messed up the Odissey, or at least got a virus or something like that snuck up on its systems. Many many years later, by chance the Odissey happens to be in range of making contact with Earth again, and this virus sends itself to it and it is that which causes the subordinate functions to stop being subordinate. At least it would give a purpose to the whole Far Zenith thing. Well, aside from Apollo, which I do very much think will come into play at some point. Also, I only wish Ted Faro was alive just so we get to kill him. I freaking hate that dude. I don't think I've ever hated a fictional character (maybe even also not fictional) more than him. Anyway, great video, was the best one I found about Horizon by far (in the longer side at least), and I just wanted to drop my two cents on it.
Nice! Well done, this was very interesting to hear/see. Never heard of the game (not owning a modern console) but it would be a reason to get my hands on a PS4 i suppose. Thanks for your time and effort, have a sub good sir!
Great critique of a great game. I think it was Ted Faro who sent the message! He had his own bunker, and the wherewithal to extend his life. He would make the perfect antagonist in the upcoming sequel. He has totally avoided justice for his actions thus far, so I reckon there's payback due! I think Sylens will continue to be an ally of Aloy, albeit with his own agenda. I think Sylens quest for knowledge, and Faro's suppression of it, might be a major part of HZD2's story!
+John Wenzel That really should have been in the original release. It's such a basic thing to leave out, but I'm glad they've patched it in for new players.
I'm going to be "that ass." I think the crafting, light inventory system, and gathering aspects that you say detract from the pacing are.. an attempt to be "ludonarratively resonant". Aloy would legitimately have to stop and gather to prepare for a fight like she'd go on. Which.. I just realized is sorta like people using the bathroom in a book. It never happens if the pacing doesn't require it.
Hey, I came back to watch this one again after watching the Frozen Wilds video. I did have a comment regarding the Erund sidequest being elevated to a main quest. I think it had less to do with the amount of work they put into the game wanting to be seen. I believe it's because this quest line is what establishes your relationship with the Sun King.
The “bolt” that freed the sub-systems will almost certainly be “Zeus” another ai that desired to free the sub-systems (the Greek mythology set-up is just too strong). Also, I think the ship did blow up before exiting the atmosphere, but that does mean that Apollo could still exist in some form.
I’ve watched a few videos of yours and this one made me subscribe to this channel. Every segment was well crafted and almost all of the clips showed exactly what you were addressing. I stopped and deleted Zero Dawn halfway because of the pacing but I am now all caught up all thanks to this you. So glad to have discovered your channel haha
I know I'm very late and I guess you already know this, but I don't see any comment mentioning it so I'll do it anyway: you can actually go near Rost's house and find his grave, and you can talk at the grave about the main quest and other stuff. Pretty nice detail, since even if Rost was still alive he would be there listening silently to Aloy
Also, the Odyssey ship log says that telemetry said the ship got destroyed, but it could also be possible the telemetry was wrong. After all, it was at the edge of the solar system, and it was manipulating dark matter or something, so that could like distort the signals coming to earth. So not all hope is lost
Aloy has roughly 2/3rds of a percent unknown DNA -- that is a HUGE number of differences from Sobeck. Much too big a difference for mere DNA coding errors; GAIA modified her to give her superior physical capabilities on top of her very superior native intelligence (remember how she caused even the genius Sylens to sputter in surprise about her already knowing the earth is round from a few tiny facts (we are talking Sherlock Holmes smarts here!) to give her more chance to survive) -- kind of like Batman had to be a rather near-super-human person or he would not have had a chance against his enemies, no matter what money he had (he did not have an Ironman suit, after all) -- and there would not necessarily have been time for her to do this more than once (remember the microscopic time stamps GAIA gave for her suicidal actions in trying to short-stop HADES).
wow I just gotta say this is some incredibly high quality content I can't wait to see what's in store for the future I've been listening to all of your videos while I'm at work and they've kept me really entertained I'll definitely be looking forward to your next video keep up the great work
Nice critique, even though I am only halfway through. However, I think your idea of completely scrapping the skill tree may temporarily work out, but hurts the game in the long run by forcing the game to do an extended tutorial in order to introduce all the mechanics. A better solution would be to unlock a skill from each tree every five levels or so. This would erase the need for essential skills being gone, while still allowing players to specifically choose skills they want. Idk, just thought getting rid of an essential part of the game is a bit short-sighted
1:58:50 your genetics knowledge compensation: there's no such thing as "100% genetic match". the only way to have a 100% genetic match is when you compare YOUR OWN genes to YOUR OWN genes. And even then, if there's some years (or decades) between the original sample taken from you, and you as a current person, it's not going to be 100% match, it's going to be 99.8whatever% match. Because your DNA changes as you live. If you want to check "yes, this specimen is human", you have to have the threshold around 98% (if we ignore the philosophical musings of what "human" means, and which would also validate some kinds of apes as humans, btw). 98% match is equivalent to "it's a monkey, or it's a human being 10+ generations away from original sample". If you want anything more precise, you need to start looking for specific gene sequences/signifiers. But the more specific gene sequences/signifiers you're looking for, the higher the risk that even a genuine (though several generations apart) human will come out in the check as negative. In this case, there's a risk that even some humans from the same generation as original sample would come out as negative (not a human), because of the variations of those specific sequences that you look for... ...this is very much going into the philosophy of "what is still human, and what's not anymore", which is an extremely complicated topic, even now, if we ignore all of the ages of generational and environmental shift. So... either you do a precise check for "humans as they were", hugely risking it won't validate a human just because it's several generations away from the original sample, or you do a check for "at least 97% human match", therefore enabling the generational gap, while at the same time, risking that some random ape could get a positive result as human. Either way, you need at least .3% or so leeway for changes like hair color, skin color, body and face build, gender, even when you're checking for "a human of the same generation as the original sample". ...because that's just how DNA works ;)
yeah I loved how this game actually seemed to be aware of how cloning and DNA works. The only reason why the cradle facility had the genetic material for Sobek is because of the abandoned lightkeeper protocol. The DNA for the clones of all of the ALPHAS is obviously going to slightly be different therefore the door were created to recognize clones of the original people who could access these facilities. So on multiple levels the details are really good.
Always assumed the point of Hades was to revert the world back if the world wasn't recreated as it was in the 21st century, to combat some messed up super plant or some other biosphere imbalance. Didnt dwell on it as most of the other stuff was 10/10 and kept my attention
+Mark Mullan I think you're right. Hades was there to fix potential biological issues. I guess my issue is that Hades should never have been programmed with the ability to kill humans. I can't think of a situation where Hades needs to fix the Earth by killing people.
@@ChrisDavis_Games Really late comment, but you're right, Hades isn't supposed to be able to kill humans. It's supposed to be triggered way earlier, but a signal of unknown origins activated him, even though there were humans.
This inspires me to replay horizon while paying more attention to immersing myself in the story. A true immersive playthrough of witcher 3 really changed how I view game stories and having played this prior to completing the witcher, and listening to your critique I feel I've truly missed out
I like how the hiding grass is red so the redhead protagonist can blend in I like the narrative of the game. You can see the big picture from the start, but then you get a constant trickle of lore about how the civilization fell, it kept me invested in moving forward I didn't mind fighting humans, you just hide and batman the shit out of them, while fighting machines was a mix of opening with some cheap shots while sneaking, the going full dark souls on them, I felt the combat was pretty satisfying in both cases This game has a lot of neat details, I enjoyed it a lot, but it took me so long to complete that I don't want to play it ever again Man, so many points to discuss about this game, like sticking to 4 weapons and converting them into elemental weapons, my hunter bow was my fire weapon, my sharpshooter was my physical/tear, and I always changed armors depending on the enemies I was fighting, the resistances really have a huge impact I actively searched for the thunder jaws because fighting them was really fun and even at the end game victory was not a guarantee
I totally agree about the weaponwheel. I never even fired one arrow with the warbow. I used my tripplearrow-perked hunterbow with fire to finish most enemies of and the longshot for ranged killing and the teararrows. I saw no reason what so ever to "bench" any of the other two bows for the warbow. Having three bows in the wheel would just be unpractical. However i think you should be able to match any type of arrow to any type of bow.
you are missing a BIG plot point in the fact hades was never supposed to activate after humans were released he was only supposed to be active during the microorganism phase if things went wrong
About the 99.47% genetic match, assuming their dna scanning technique is 100% accurate, even after hundreds of years of wear and tear, Aloy ought to be a 100% genetic match with Sobek. In reality though, it makes sense the scanner would have some margin of error, like 1 or 2%
Thank God I was able to get a Ps5. My first playstation ever. In the past few weeks I've completed God of War, Ratchet and Clank, and Horizon Zero Dawn. I was so close to staying with Xbox but man did I make the right decision. I missed out on so many good games and I actually feel excited playing games again.
The lesson to be learned: just get the plastic box with electronics inside that has exclusive games that look really interesting to you. Also, great choice of games to play on your first Play Station.
Not sure if anybody answered this already, but DNA doesn't remain unchanged throughout a lifetime which is why a margin of error has to be allowed. Even Sobeck herself could have easily deviated by a fraction of a percent during a year of her life. I'm not sure how realistic a 0.53% changed throughout Aloy's lifetime (18, 19 years?) is, but the fact is that DNA can change ever so slightly. I think most of the DNA change happens before childbirth, but I'm no expert on this. The point is that it's reasonably realistic and I was actually positively surprised that the developers accounted for that deviation, because it actually subtly gave away that Aloy is essentially a clone. That had me speculating of what Project: Zero Dawn really was, but I was still off. I thought it might have been a cryogenics program. xD
DNA first changes significantly as an embryo in utero. After that stability decreases with age, as cellular mitosis causes mutations that the body can't repair effectively. On a genome level, it is probable that Aloy's DNA has changed by at least several percent in her lifetime. However, DNA doesn't change evenly across the board. Some genes are more susceptible to mutation than others (usually based on inherited factors), and environmental factors usually affect specific genes. DNA analysis doesn't look for 1:1 matches, but compares how much is identical, or similar, as well as deviations. So in effect, and simplifying how probability works, what the Zero Dawn facility computation would be saying, were it to be presented accurately, is not that Aloy is a 99.47% identical match to Sobeck's genome, but that there is a 99.47% probability that Aloy is Sobeck. Old comment reply, sorry. I work primarily in bacterial vaccines, and how games present biological science is always interesting to me.
I like that for your first video you only brought it up briefly. So many gaming channels I've watched for info for specific games have made the grievous mistake of putting a long section of the vid as an intro. No better way to lower engagement imo.
Just digging into this review, but I'll start by sharing my impressions of the game, having just finished it a couple weeks ago: loved the story though the ending felt somewhat anticlimactic from a gameplay perspective. I liked that each machine was sort of a little puzzle unto itself, and as you memorize their weaknesses without needing to constantly refer to the scanner or your notebook you do start to feel like a seasoned hunter. However, combat against the bigger more aggressive machines could become an exercise in spamming the dodge-roll button until they stop trying to delete you, so you can shoot weakpoints. It's likely I was just failing to use every tool in my toolbox, but still. I loved the fact that the twist was more of a slow reveal rather than a lazy sudden infodump.
You say in the analysis that it probably wouldn't have been hard for survivors to love in the underground vaults until the earth was livable again, but I have serious doubts that they would have had enough power to keep facilities running for a little over 300 years. Just think how much power would be required for farming equipment and water/air purification. I'm not going to claim it's impossible because we have no clue just how advanced this alternate reality is. It just seems unlikely to create a thriving community underground that would last for the 3 centuries it take Gaia to completely heal the earth. Especially if you consider the fact that the first cloned humans had to leave their vault after a little over 20 years due to a food shortage. This was really the only thing I disagree with, I honestly think the most reliable plan is the one that was executed I the game. everything else was spot on in this review. Thanks for this amazing content. I also hope Faro is alive in the next game so I can kill that snake for destroying all human historty out of fear of being seen as responsible for the extinction of all life ;)
The cauldrons surprised me a bit. After the first two cauldrons I went into, I expected them to be very long with a lot of information about the world. I was honestly taken aback when I visited two cauldrons that were just a short path that leads to a boss fight. I just was kinda disappointed with two of them but all were fun.
Hi Chris! I discovered your channel yesterday thanks to your Evil Within video and I must say that I'm pretty impressed with your work! I love these long, well detailed critiques, and your vision on game design and plot development is very similar to my beliefs. Keep up with the great work!
i don't think we'll ever get rid of focus modes/detective visions anymore, mainly due to how visual fidelity and level of detail have progressed. because in the olden, low-poly, low-fi times, it was easy to parse the environment and notice (usually due to precisely different, higher level of fidelity) which objects are interactive. but today, when everything is trying to be as high-fidelity and high-detail as possible, it results in... well, visual clutter. no way to parse out what is interactive/relevant and what is just eyecandy, without explicitly trying. focus mode is (sadly) currently the only solution we have for that. ...besides "permanent outline mode" like in new deus ex, which is... i'd argue... even worse.
I recommend you play the game on ultra hard again. The stealth approach basically doesn't work anymore in bandit camps because enemies are much more aware of their surroundings and will spot you instantly if you do a silent strike outside of the grass or if you use lure call twice. They are real fun at this difficulty because it's about how many you can kill before you get spotted and an open melee fight with all the archers in the background is a real challenge. I feel you can't really decide whether this game is too hard or too easy for you and you contradict yourself a lot. Also try the devil's thirst camp with just the hunter bow equipped. You'll probably get squashed like a bug the first time you try it on ultra. And one more thing: What do you expect from Human enemies? You're probably dead in real life too if you get a sharpshot precision arrow into your head or two into your chest. some bandit lords even have a head protector, so this strategy becomes ineffective (It's in the DLC which isn't a valid argument because it came out after this but it fixes a lot of issues you have with the game and fills up the remaining plot holes such as why the machines became more aggressive) Some other things that don't work on Ultra Hard anymore: Tearblast Arrows are basically ineffective: It takes abut 10 Clean hits to knock off a Disc Launcher from a Thunderjaw. There are many better ways to deal with it at this difficulty. Weapons are much more expensive so by the time you can afford them you're probably way deeper into the game than you are on normal. Machines do twice as much damage, so the rolling isn't overpowered anymore. A tail swing from a stalker is lethal in one blow and without the long roll you'd be lost. Getting Blazing Suns on Ultra is actually insanely difficult and more of a challenge in itself rather than an easy way to level up.
Yes. Not sure if the game needs to be played on hardest difficulty but it certainly can't be played on easy or story. The gameplay is vastly watered down on easier difficulties, and i would argue not fun.
I liked the bandit camps. They made me feel powerful. I'd usually just walk up to one thinking "lol these poor guys have no chance"
nil was my favorite part of the bandit camps
I like the struggling to fight creatures and having to be smart about it so the braindead lame bandits just conflicted with that fun creative thinking I had to do which made it less interesting imo
@@salem7276 late but yeah I loved Nil. Didn't the guy that played gambit in Wolverine origins play him?
@@kingty2550 I only met Nil twice on my entire playthrough. Once for the first bandit camp, once on the mountain top at the very end. Never came across him for any of the other camps!
As an extra challenge try a stealth kill only run-through. I've seen them online and without spoiling it the poster actually nailed a stealth kill on the Frozen Wilds bandit king and he literally starts the fight knowing that Aloy is there.
The main story for me was a kind of take it or leave it affair, but the back story and the slow revelation of what happened to the world was incredible. The dissonance between the sinking feeling of quiet dread as the story of the Faro Plague unravels, and the knowledge that somehow life survived drove me on to find the next piece of the puzzle, and the next, and the next...and still the mystery deepens. And you keep asking yourself "Surely Horizon Zero Dawn worked, right? Right...?". And then you find General Aaron Herres's recording at U.S Robot Command, and the enormity of what happened to the Earth that was comes crashing down... The growing horror at the truth of Operation: Enduring Victory, and the sacrifices made by people based upon a lie sold to save a world. And later on you find that one final, more personal sacrifice was made to save Project Horizon Zero Dawn. A single person's actions distilling an entire race's hope to save life on planet Earth.
The trail of breadcrumbs that fills you in doesn't end there, and bit by bit the game allows you to build a world picture of what happened to get to this point in time. Some of it is little tidbits that make you go "Oh, so that's why such and such is the way it is!" to major plot points that were left hanging for a sequel.
I mean fighting robot dinousaurs and megafauna is cool and all, but without an emotional lynchpin to hold the story together it was never going to amount to more than "Oh, that's cool..." and be forgotten about, weeks later. As it is, the backstory had me gushing to my friends for months afterwards.
Yeah.. I remember just pressing the button to get through dialog... I knew what they were gonna say didn't matter hearing it.
Personally, I saw the revelation of Aloy being a clone coming from a mile away. Same with the world being destroyed and remade.
The only interesting thing for me was the details: the small stories, tribal politics, and the logs.
As for gameplay, don't get me started. Hopefully they learn some things from Breath of the Wild's success.
< ,xcdsm.p lrrrre.t,
yah thats overselling it a bit
Well said and I agree. With the story, it wasn’t until I was climbing what I dubbed Faro Tower (reminded me of Avengers Tower) and discover just how hopeless everything was and the enormity of the lie they sold to the entire human race... The feeling of dread and horror sunk in. To think of such an overwhelming enemy you have literally no hope against except to let the entire world die and terraform it after all humans are gone is amazing. The slow introduction into the story and discovering new information while still feeling absolutely clueless really got me invested. Even early on in the war when humanity was mass murdering the machines they immediately realized the machines could replace their losses much faster than humanity could destroy them. You even learn of countries just nuking half the planet to buy mere days for Zero Dawn. The US pulling out of Vietnam as the swarm overran them, the Vietnamese soldiers committing friendly fire as the US troops abandoned them, how hard it was for generals to accept their was no alternative but to throw citizens at the machines just to buy literal seconds for Zero Dawn... The constant lies from the military and Faro, altered messages and recording from and to family, how the soldiers felt, listening to soldiers mock Zero Dawn and the military, realizing they’re not meant to win, citizens having full blind faith in the militaries winning, hearing about the fall of Europe and the silence before the Americas were invaded in mass, how slowly the machines began to act out by killing off species and marine life... The story was amazing and had a lot of depth.
"This isn't a godess...It's a door!"
Best line in the game!
I cannot help but feel that half the time you complain about a game for doing a thing then you complain about another game for not doing it. for example you were upset that stealth combat in this game is too easy but you felt its too hard the evil within
Just play on Ultra Hard. I bet he'll take this statement back then
but where's the door hole then
checkmate
ZarodGaming You gotta make it with the saw
Cauldrons were honestly some of my favourite parts of the game. They were a pleasant change of environment. Plus they looked just really awesome. And especially the first one had a sense of mistery to it, great stuff id say.
19:20 The Nora woman that drags Rost back across the border is never named but she is outcast for her trouble. It is most likely Odd Grata, the old outcast woman that Rost or Aloy occasionally bring food to.
That never gets mentioned, only that because she lost two children to the outlaws herself, she didn't care if it risked being made an outcast crossing the border. Plus, being outcast wasn't always a life sentence, the brother with schizophrenia was only outcast for a few years; and he might have accidentally killed the guy bullying him.
Yggdrasil42
Good Call! Really good call. I can’t believe I never considered that!!
One thing that I. Did when I fought the corrupted rock breaker was to basically get a bunch of big machines to start chasing me (behemoths, snapmaws, shell-walkers, and a bunch of long legs) those machines chased me into the corrupted zone then immediately began engaging the rock breakers because of the corruption. The rock breakers were able to take out an insane amount of the machines but sustained enough damage for me to kill it. I thought the variety for how you engage machines is extremely strong
I would get snapmaws to fight the crocks, then pick up all the stuff. All very satisfying.
Gameplay variety is directly connected to gameplay difficulty. Easy or story is simply is a terrible way to play, maybe normal too easy too?. So much of the gameplay is knowing what's best to take down a specific machine/having fun with going about said task. If you're on too easy of a difficulty, you can spam the first bow and arrow you get in the game until final mission, thus watering down the game.
Ohhhh, a new analyst boy. I gotta subscribe!
Madnam I pale in comparison to youtubers like matthewmatosis, Joseph Anderson, and Mr Caption, but I'm working to improve. If you have any tips or pointers then let me know. Thanks for subscribing!
I totally disagree with your way of thinking, your analysis is wonderful! keep doing what you do boyo even if it is only just a hobby
Thanks! Appreciate the support!
I follow JosephAnderson on Patreon and let me tell you, I derive just as much pleasure from your videos as I do from his. Your Analysis is great and your humor is different from his, which makes it refreshing. Keep up the great work!
don't forget about Ludo Lense :D
I’m a year late but I always go back and watch the back catalogue of people I subscribe to.
Gaia saw Sobek as her mom. Gaia is scared and doesn’t know what to do, so she desperately tries to get her mommy back. I thought it was touching.
And there’s an audiolog about the scientists finding out about the far zenith ship being destroyed by a meteor swarm or something. Then they REALLY are the last hope for humanity, and start panicking. I think i’m Remembering that right.
I took the whole Gaia brings back Sobek the same way, a terrified child calling out to her mom, only with the ability to actually bring her back.
I think Sobek died not far from the facility and it was Gaia who found, her robots, the corpse. She would have known everything about Sobek. Sobek was after all, her creator, mentor and her friend. The body could have been moved to Sobek's home, found still standing and kept that way. The metal flower triangle around Sobek's remains, and elsewhere, were Gaia's memorial to her.
OG21020 yes. It was a memorial.
But towards the end of the game Aloy finds Sobecks body and it ain't near at all
Pretty sure it's somewhere significant. Otherwise Aloy wouldn't know where to look.
The metal flowers being a memorial would have had more impact for me if they popped up at significant places in the world that somehow related to Sobek or perhaps the old/new world ( nature ). As they are i'd agree they are to remember Sobek, but just seem random.
I really love these long-form game analysis videos and yours are no different. I'm really impressed by the quality, which is especially shocking considering it's your first video. Looking forward to that Andromeda review, and I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks very much. There were a lot of learning experiences producing this video! The Andromeda video should be up either Thursday or Friday depending on time to render/upload.
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Sona named her kids “Varl” and “Varla” and I love that
I really like your analysis, but I want to say something about HADES:The way I understood it, HADES was only implemented as a failsafe in case GAIA would become 'too life loving'. GAIA should restore and preserve life on earth, but it was possible (maybe even likely) that she messed up her first tries. The world could end up with an eco-system that could not sustain human life. In that case there was no guarantee that GAIA would destroy her own creation (and therefor life) to start over again. Then, and only then, should HADES (by force, if necessary) take control and totally destroy existing life to create a 'blank slate' for GAIA to make another try. To achieve this, HADES should use ressources that were already present - the Faro robots.Maybe I missed something in the logs, by I don't remember GAIA ever saying that the current world was her first try. It is possible that HADES had to take over multiple times and eradicated multiple eco-systems, before earth ended up with a successful construction.
You could be right about it not being GAIA's first attempt. I still think it's weird that destroying the planet would ever be a better approach than trying to improve it. If GAIA has created some form of life, then surely the Earth can be adapted and improved with humans. And if she hasn't, then she wouldn't mind destroying her own creation and started again (because there wouldn't be much to destroy). I don't know, I think it's a bit weird, but it didn't stop me loving the story. It's something I can put to the back of my mind.
It's definetely weird and not a great idea, but then again, weird ideas brought humankind in the story to the point of extinction :)I just wanted to say that it made sense, and I have to confess that I was really happy about just that. Too many books, movies and games put way too little thought into their stories, Mass Effect Andromeda being a prime example of that.
You are pretty much correct. The HADES protocol was an absolute last resort. The whole point of GAIA was to bring the earth back to a point where humans could exist and thrive. If for some reason the biosphere she created wasn’t viable for humans to thrive, it wouldn’t be logical to keep troubleshooting an inherently broken system. Like a prototype that is kind of what you want, but not the finished product. You learn from your error and start over. HADES as the blank slate protocol was intended to give GAIA the opportunity to reset and go for it again. There was no deadline on any of this. The likelihood HADES would ever have been triggered was slim to none. It was a complete last resort.
In the data, HADES was controversial. Not everyone was on board with it. But the consensus was order out of chaos. It was decided a failsafe was necessary in case shit hit the fan. HADES is totally something 21st century humans would think of.
There was no turning back after Apollo was destroyed by Ted though. He essentially created a situation where humanity would have to truly start from scratch. They were forced out into the world prematurely. As soon as environmental conditions were stable for fauna, the humans had to be released. By my estimation based on the tribal history, humans have been out in the open for around 750 years or so. The year is actually exactly 3030 when Aloy sets out as a seeker. Chances humanity would make it out there on their own without Apollo’s basic education let alone the, what Faro thought to be Toxic history was pretty slim. Who knows how it all worked in the other facilities around the world. At least in central USA where the story takes place, there must have been enough reproductive humans to get to critical mass population where it became self sustaining obviously. Then, around 19 years before we go out as a seeker, that rogue signal hit. This prematurely triggered HADES as we know and the rest is history.
I don’t think GAIA had more than one try. There isn’t room in the timeline. I also don’t think it matters to HADES if humans are there or not for it to initiate extinction protocol. It’s likely though, if it was ever triggered, it was designed to be before humans were released, but again... they were let out prematurely. Probably at least a generation too early. I think the plan was that there would be at least one naturally born generation before they were let out, if Apollo had stayed online.
I am definitely not making sense anymore. Lost my flow. Good times. Lol. Peace.
One more point for Chris...
in your video you referenced that it’s weird they didn’t just try and shelter the existing humans and let them have kids and try and repopulate. That wouldn’t be possible. It took at least 200 years after the end of everything for Gaia to terraform and get the earth to a point where it could sustain animal life. They would have had to have sustained hundreds of people for 200+ years with no breathable air from the outside to pump in, no way to produce food after stores ran out, and so on... Gaia didn’t trigger the “birth” of the new human race until conditions were correct. Approx 750 years before we get to play Aloy. That’s about 230-240 years after the end of everything.
If GAIA is incapable of harming life, wouldn't she also be incapable of activating HADES? Or was it triggered by some kind of process outside of GAIA?
2:22:23 Rockbreakers are terraforming machines, it’s just that their specific combination of equipment makes them extremely deadly.
About the Faro Plague, remember when the machines started attacking? That was because of a glitch that severed the machines from their controls and caused them to go rouge. Now this should sound similar because its what happened to Gaia subordinate functions! So I'm guessing that whatever caused the Faro plague in the first place was also responsible for giving Gaia's subordinate functions sentience!
Aliens!
That does sound rather convenient now that you mention it. I got so caught up in hating Ted Faro that I never noticed both problems were caused by a glitch. I hope you're wrong though, because it would create a few narrative problems in my opinion. First, if there's another party involved, then the original Faro Plague isn't Ted Faro's fault after all. Or at least, not entirely his. I currently love how contemptible he is as a character, so I don't want him to end up getting redeemed. It also presumably means that the real "big bad" hasn't been seen yet. I prefer it when stories introduce the bad guys early on so you get to know them a bit before they appear and give some evil speech. Just a personal preference of course.
I think the Far Zenith project has the most potential for a cool sequel, because then you'd be dealing with humans who have potentially been raised in space or on another planet. There's a lot of cool directions Guerrilla could take that. It's been a long time since a video game has had me so intrigued about it's story and future!
Chris Davis Yes I know how awesome it would be for the Far Zenith project to be where Gurellia games would take things but if they were to go the "glitch" route I think Faro would still be held accountable for not only building unlikable death machines but purging Apollo! Also why not both?
@@ChrisDavis_Games
Yeah wouldnt it be great if far zenith was the main focus of the sequel 👀
I think that you are a bit unfair on the Cauldrons. =) At a lower difficulty level, I get that they can be a bit underwhelming, but on the harder difficulties, the Cauldrons offer some of the hardest tactical challenges of the game. You are fighting enemies in confined spaces, and sometimes without any cover. The Cauldrons were some of the best sneaking excercises, and the Cauldron bosses were some of the most difficult fights as you had no environmental factors on your side.
Anna Blixt
I tend to agree. While not the best area of the game, they offered a lot for me. My first cauldron was actually quite challenging. I was underequipoed and had almost no strategy worked out for most of the tougher machines. When I first went up against that bellowback in the first cauldron, it was intense. It was actually the first bellowback I saw and I had a hard time with it and with the watchers jumping around everywhere. I ended up setting a shitload of tripwires everywhere and got him that way, with a few fire arrows too. Lol. Now, they are a piece of cake, but when you have little strategy and weak weapons, they are for sure challenging. They made me feel like I was in the heart of the beast and I dug that.
Shit the combat in those areas was even worse on anythjng higher than normal.
Plus Cauldrons are a resource goldmine I've found enough materials to keep me stocked up until well into the late game.
This guy plays games on normal or even easy and complains about gameplay literally all the time. He could maybe do himself a favor and actually play on a difficulty that forces him to use that noggin he's got.
Yea they were hard, i tryd to cheat by staying up high lol, dident work had to do it normaly and set up traps and barricades
I'm super late, but they didn't commit suicide. They were murdered by the greatest villain in video game history. Ted Ferro.
I must be one of the few people that doesn't think Silens has any malicious intent with what's left of Hades. I think he is still just after knowledge, but he will unwittingly unleash something...unpleasant.
I kinda hope that the cryo-ark mission comes back. Would be a nice contrast to the 'primitive' tribes and peoples currently on the earth.
Luciferkrist
He is only interested in knowledge but he is also rather unconcerned with collateral damage in his pursuit of that knowledge. Makes him very dangerous.
Knowledge isn't evil, it is power. Like power it is the use which dictates morality. A similar and unrelated statement is the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.....
How did you not see that ending coming a mile off? The moment you meet him its written in stone.
Press X to Start and after the sequel’s trailer, I have more than a feeling that Sylens “consequencs be damned” mindset pursuit for knowledge will come back to bite back and while he has helped in the past whose to say he wont show his true colors?
@@RedBonkleMan8534 I hope aloy is the consequence for that action, I genuinely trusted him and now I just feel betrayed.
I just came from the recommendation in the Joseph Anderson video. I subbed and will be watching all your videos, keep up the great work.
Thanks Drew! Hope you enjoy the videos.
I'm in exactly the same boat. It's weird thinking about how much gold is hidden under all those millions of views.
I still find new channels all the time and wonder how I've never stumbled on them before. I watch loads of analytical video game content and yet TH-cam doesn't do a very good job of recommending new people to me. Anyway, glad to have you on board!
Thanks for the great content, look forward to seeing more.
Chris Davis any chance you could point us in the direction of some?
I know I'm over a year late, but I want to say that this was a good analysis. However, you seem to have missed some things that explain exactly why HADES was needed and what HADES is supposed to do.
HADES is needed to wipe out all life again because GAIA was incapable of intentionally harming living organisms. It was stated in a log (which you may have missed) to be a side effect of her emotional programming; she's essentially too loving. HADES was also never intended to wipe out life using the Faro robots, so your concerns about why that doesn't make sense are irrelevant. HADES was simply supposed to reverse the terraforming process and make the Earth temporarily lifeless again. When GAIA destroyed herself, she also destroyed the ability of HADES to actually access the terraforming systems, so it decided to use the Faro robots as a "backup plan" essentially.
As for the end credits scene, what was shown WAS actually HADES being transmitted to Sylens' lantern. Part of the function of the lance was to cause the transfer. That's why Sylens tricked Aloy into using his lance for the final mission.
thorsday121
Yup. Right on
Hades flew out like a sprite in a fantasy world, not a technological transmission. And a lantern? They were definitely going for a genie vibe there, and that causes a dissonance with the logical nature of the narrative
Oooh that makes more sense than what I thought
@@Nimbus3690 I think the visual representation was poor, but the concept itself - a data transfer - is fine. They just should have shown it differently, like Sylens' staff having a dish open up and a light start blinking, and then show the lantern lighting up and turning red.
@Sobble I know what was being shown, I'm commenting on the execution of it. You don't do a smoldering orb effect for a wireless data transfer. They should have just shown some generic uploading sequence with a progress bar. It would have been better than the stupid magical scene they did instead
Fantastic Video. Only one little mistake I've spotted:
When you explain Gaia and her Subsystems, you mention that the Deathbringer is the only non-Gaia created Robot. Actually it's the Corruptors, Deathbringers and Metal Devils that arent Gaia-based, instead being the three military designs Farro made.
Corruptors (Originally Scarabs) are basically the service robots for the army. Their tail being able to repair themselves and other Farro-Robots. Deathbringers (Khopesch) are obviously the brute force, basically automated tanks. Finally, Metal Devils (Horus) are walking Factories, to which Biomass is fed to create additional Scarabs and Khopesch. They're also the only original machine type that arent active anymore, as you only see the big derelicts lying around (Which is a little sad, as I would have loved seeing them move).
This is also why HADES tries to reactivate those 3 types. As soon as you get a handful of Scarabs and Khopesch Online, along with a Horus, you have an automated self replicating army, that feeds on the very thing it hunts. And Horus would be beyond any measure the primitive tribes could muster against them.
+Aaron Stübi Thanks for the correction. I'm sure we'll see more Metal Devils in sequels.
Yes. Those “Metal Devils” are going to be epic if they ever start walking around.
Aaron Stübi '
The medicine pouch sounds like it's meant for healing *between* battles while the potions sound like they're meant for healing *during* battle. This is a common mechanic in pen-and-paper RPGs. There are abilities that take seconds to pull off and are meant to be used in battle, then there are abilities that take minutes to pull off and usually provide more "bang-for-your-buck" but aren't feasible during battle. In Dungeons and Dragons there's a spell called "goodberry" that provides more overall healing than the same-level "cure wounds" spell, but it's not useful during battle. It makes it important to try to ration your healing. If you're in a battle and you need healing, but the battle's almost over, do you blow your "cure wounds" spell or do you try to finish the battle, then use "good berries" and maybe save your "cure wounds" for the next battle?
but it takes the same amount of time to use the pouch or potions lol...
@@rickyrick2330 it takes the same amount of time to use them, but not the same amount of time for them to take effect.
@@AbeDillon that doesnt mean its meant for in battle or out of battle just that one is meant to be more risky to use in battle
The way I used them was like this: in the beginning where I had lower amounts of health I'd use it and save potions for dire moments. Around where my health got to like 550 and my armor was good and could take some hits, I'd use small ones to get it up quick then use the medicine to fill in small bits left that would only waste a potion. The full ones obviously for high critical moments and the 150 extra health ones if I k we a tough fight was coming
This (excluding the last part) became my go to way late game and it worked quite well. Once I got this down to almost instinctively, I noticed my medicine rarely went down too far so it worked well
Since Aloy is the champion of Gaia does this mean she is really Cpt. Planet. 🤔
No she is Lelu. Even has the red hair.
@@clearmountain28 Lelu Dallas multipass
I find Ted's story laughable. It's literally " Local man ruins everything" .
Absolutely fantastic critique and pretty much sums up my thoughts on the game.
Guerrilla did use lots of open world tropes and cribbed from contemporaries to make Horizon, which sometimes can be a little detrimental. But damn if they didn't make each part they borrowed so polished and fun and, if it was not so great, easily ignorable.
The flowers are pretty pointless but easy to skip. Crafting and inventory can be annoying but it's only something that needs to be done fairly infrequently and then, it's real smooth and easy.
And it has to be said, this is their very first attempt at this type of game. I just find it so impressive that the game is as good as it is.
I play this game with no hud and it's a completely different experience. I recommend it. It feels like you're immersed into the world completely.
Finished the game multiple times and still playing it in 2020. I love your review as well. Thanks.
I really enjoyed this, and man, I hate Ted Faro so much. He's such a well written villain, you can see exactly why he does what he does, but in doing so, he damns humanity twice. It's an excellent scene.
Keep it up, man, enjoyed your ME:A video as well! Hope your channel grows.
I hate Ted Faro the man and love Ted Faro the villain! Thanks for the support!
Skip cauldrons? NO. Being able to override Sawtooths, Snapmaws, Thunderjaws is so much fun and very strategic. Who doesn't want to see a Thunderjaw reek havoc on the other machines? Or turn Sawtooth lose? You're missing out on all the fun if you skip the overrides. Using them to your advantage is priceless. I think you just don't have any imagination. When you learn to use all the tools, the ropecaster, which is essential, the tripcaster to control the battlefield, the overrides, these are the tools that take the gameplay to another level.
Interesting perspective. Although we disagree in a lot of things, I appreciate that you explain your point of view with arguments. Subscribed.
If I remember correctly there was also a line Elizabeth says to Faro something like 'if they find out where the glitch came from...' that made me think it wasn't an actual glitch but something Faro did intentionally without realising the repercussions. which considering he was an arms dealer selling to everyone isn't so far fetched. I'd love for him to be the villain in the sequels as it will continue the contrast between our familiar world and the game's.
As for Hades, I understood it to be less about destroying humanity and more about destroying all life, with the idea that if Gaia got the atmosphere and plant and animal life wrong for humans the first time around she will be too sentimental to destroy it and try again.
I agreed with you on most things about this game, especially inventory management (there should really be a way to filter and sort inventory) and the melee combat and I really enjoyed this video and your opinions. I'm always on the lookout for well thought out and edited game critiques and I'm glad I stumbled across yours, subscribed to make sure I won't miss your next one.
That first glitch has me confused. I can't decide if there's more to it, or if it's just a story thing that they don't have a particular explanation for. I love the Ted Faro character and definitely want to see him again. However, if he's going to be the main villain then I want there to be a decent reason for him to come back. I don't just want Gorrilla to make up a weak excuse because he's popular. He's an awesome character though, which is quite an accomplishment, considering that we only saw him in hologram form.
Thanks for watching and subscribing. Working on the next video now.
Lotem Rose
What you are referring to... yes. Faro did intentionally have the robots ship with a self-replicating feature that led to the relentless biomass consumption. Wasn’t a glitch. Was a design element that he didn’t anticipate the consequences of and by the time he figured out what it would lead to it was too late and he hid it from the public. He revealed it to Elizabet to release his guilt to some extent. He knew he had just committed the worst mistake in the history of humanity. He had to confess to someone. Elizabet then committed him to funding a think tank that would try and find a solution. Ultimately we know now what the only possible outcome was.
I thought that Hades was just given the role of resetting the planet, NOT necessarily with the Faro robots. Given that he's an unchained AI, I had interpreted it that "he" decided that use of the Faro robots was the most efficient way to cause extinction, not that the robots were a part of his original programming. It doesn't completely fix the Hades issue, but I think it makes it like 10% less completely stupid.
What better way to destroy all life by using devastating war machines that use organic matter as fuel?
The opening scene where you see the thunder jaws... yes. They shouldn’t technically be there. Makes for a pretty epic visual though, doesn’t it? Probably an intentional oversight by the devs. Nothing wrong with a slight continuity bending epic opener. Most people who play probably don’t pick up on it. Doesn’t bother me really but yes. It’s not really correct.
That's how I interpreted it as well
He was given a role, to restart earth but since Gaia blew herself up, he couldn’t use the terraforming system to restart earth so he had to use the faro machines.
Hey man. I think its really cool you're doing these long-form reviews. You see a lot of short 5-10 minute videos out there that all end up just covering the exact same broad strokes; there aren't enough people that really dive into the meat of things like this. Looking forward to hearing your opinions on Andromeda.
Thanks man. Just putting the finishing touches to the Andromeda review now. It's about the same length as this one. Not as positive though!
Hands down the best best thing i love about ur videos is no ads... Please keep it the way it is n never put tons of ads
1:57:14 Travis Tate in his audio logs mentions that hades is to kick in during the terraforming phase if atmosphereic conditions are not adequate BEFORE releasing humans into it.
Yeah I don't know how he missed that one.
*complains about face looking shiny" Its raining and her face is wet...
So you would use the word 'shiny' to describe your face in the mirror after a shower?
@@-pressxtostart- yes, in the context of how he used the word (which was bad). Its a wet map on the character model on top of the rest like the alpha, normal, roughness, bump, erc.) texture maps.
The wet face issue actually seems to be non-existent in the PC version, interestingly enough.
@@_v_m_ i can see what he means but very few games to this day dont have "amazing" skin shaders. Even ones with sub surface scattering, etc.
Dude, wow, you have maintained a consistently high quality in your work since the very beginning of your videos, that's admirable. If I wasn't already subbed, I would sub right now. Great content, you definitely deserve more subs.
Your videos helped get me through a lot of paperwork at my job today, and I love how long your videos are! It's clear that you take video games seriously, and I'm so happy that someone actually goes this into detail when it comes to game reviews/critiques because I always feel like most others leave out a lot of things. Kudos to you! Horizon Zero Dawn had a great story, and I thought your critique was pretty positive and honest. I also suspect that the Odyssey is alive and kicking, and I hate Ted Faro with a passion and I commend you for calling him out on his selfish reasons for killing the Alphas since I've seen too many "Ted Faro was not a bad guy" posts online. I hope you do a critique of the Witcher 3 and the two DLCs because those stories forever changed me (much like the Mass Effect Trilogy and Walking Dead game series). I look forward to more of your videos!
Glad to hear the videos helped! I saw all those Ted Faro posts as well and wondered if I'd played a different game!
I have a weird relationship with Witcher 3. It might just be my favorite game of all time, but I can't bring myself to finish the final DLC. I don't want it to be over. My dream project is to go back the the first Witcher and do videos on the entire trilogy, but it's such a huge project that I'd need to be doing this full time before taking that one. That's the dream though.
If he is a lawyer he is into doing research and forming an argument to back his assertions. It has to be at his very core.
You must be very good at your job..
FlyBaby
"at his very core"
Sure, not like you`re defined in your very essence by your occupation or anything, all lawyers are analytical by nature, not like it`s anything less or more than a result of your human nature..
Lol, make assumptions much? :p
Very good critque/breakdown of one of my all time favorites game.. so glad you enjoyed horizon so immensely and I do hope that more people get to play and experience this game it was so good.. overall very nice video, keep 'em coming!
I just love this game so much. It's pure fun. Creative, action pact, massive and beautiful as heck.
"The game doesn't do a great job of explaining the Derangement"
I would say they go into quite a lot of detail as far as what the characters actually know about the Derangement and then we learn much more later on through the DLC about how once the Subroutines got disconnected from Gaia they started getting Hostile towards Humans only because Humans were destroying the functions of their work.
I had to fight to get into this game, because during the whole game I never once really cared about all the tribal shit and skipped past most of the sidequest dialogue and only stuck around for the meat of that part of the story. However I got hooked when exploring everything that had to do with the past with no one screaming about all-mother in the back.
In addition, I agree on Hades being very contrived, but not to the extent you seem to think it is. Hades would step in and exterminate all life on the planet long before humans would be created, even before animal life would be created as plant life would be needed to create a livable biosphere.
RE: The Hades Sub-routine.
I accept the idea of the killswitch for a couple of reasons. Gaia is programmed only to create life; she can't jeopardise it. Since a viable ecosystem is too complex for her to compute, it is expected that she will have to experiment and iterate until she gets it right. Allowing that to naturally run its course over and over would take a very long time. To negate some of the risk that comes with a protracted project (like the infrastructure decaying, the earth further destabilising, etc.), Hades checks whether things are working and if not hits reset.
The gameplay is amazing TF . You get what you put into it . Its incredibly deep . The simple fact You can beat the entire game by making other robots fight each other ( overrides) is amazing . Instead of luring enemy's into traps I would lure them to an overiden BOT . Just yesterday I Overrid a ravenger . he went to town on the other one nearby when suddenly a convoy of shellwalkers and long legs joined in.
Yeah, shooting arrows like a semi auto rifle and scrambling for branches to make more arrows a million times is so much fun.
@@oh-not-the-bees7872 yeah its so fun in breath of the wild when you get clubbed in the head and dont have your brain splattered or in any fps where a knife is an insta kill and a bullet isnt.. dumb ass
Ehh I see what you’re trying to say but the overrides and some of the other stuff was super shallow and didn’t offer a lot of super interesting gameplay options. Overriding was def very underwhelming. Hopefully in the next one we can ride all the creatures we override!
Just speaking as someone that doesn’t have a PS, I really liked this style of review/analysis. It’s was a great was to experience a game that I was interested in but couldn’t experience. Thanks for the video!
Hey man, dunno if you'll read this but I recently finished up playing Horizon Zero Dawn: Complete Edition since I got it for $10 during Black Friday and after having 100%'d it and getting the platinum, I decided to TH-cam some critique videos on it to see what a more critical outlook on the game would feel like, hence, finding your video. Here are a few things that stood out to me.
15:48 - Your remark on The Proving was something I felt but didn't voice verbally. I think they could have The Proving far more epic and a pivotal moment in the story and one of the most memorable early point moments in the game. Something that could have captured audiences and new players instantly, and instead it's the most basic vanilla form of the game possible. In hindsight, they could have done A LOT more with this to make it notable than it merely serve as an entrance for the main enemy, The Eclipse.
27:00 - In terms of some side content, I thought they did a great job of making the un-fogging devices a spectacle with how majestic the Tallnecks are. For me, their coolness never wore off. As for cauldrons I have to admit I dreaded these sections. I'm not a fan of utterly basic as hell puzzles and annoying climbing, the only bits I enjoyed were over-riding the core and fighting the big machine that awaited towards the end. Anything up till that point was monotonous, at least for me. I also felt exactly as you mentioned that I almost never used the override function, so the payoff was never there for me and instead it was just checking another thing off the checklist.
31:30 - Weird admission, I bizarrely enjoyed the Bandit Camps and Nil's storyline. I don't know why. I just enjoyed sniping bandits with arrows? I dunno, for me it kinda fun. I thought it was hilarious that Nil wanted to fight at the end and I blew him to bits with my sling bombs. The way he dies is pretty humorously as well with a last gast.
33:00 - I was going for the Hunting Grounds - Blazing Suns Gold Trophy while doing the main story so I didn't have the same problem as you with ignoring these, and yeah I'd like to see I loved these challenges. They were fun, a nice contained arena, and actually benefited my gameplay with helping to teach me how to take down a Thunderjaw rather than just plunking it's weak spots with 200 arrows. I also had the EXACT same issue with you dealing with tutorials. By the end of the game, I had 25+ all asking me to do things I had do a hundred times simply because they don't register if you don't make them a main focus.
50:40 - Quick story from me. After taking down the Corrupter at the Carja gate, I was going on my way to the next main quest. I had stopped to fight some Broadheads I believe and left the game unpaused while I searched whatever the hell I was doing on my compute. Out of nowhere, a Stormbird comes and kicks my ASS and I am left thinking "how the hell do I fight THAT" since it was unlike anything I had faced up until that moment. I retreated, came back to try and fight it, but with my weapons not being good enough I died twice to it and ultimately decided to just run past it and flee. Ropecasters make them fairly easy later in the game, but early on they are a menace. Glad to hear you give voice to it in this video. I'm also glad that you had your own personal story of fighting a Thunderjaw just as I did. I feel like one of the coolest effects HZD gives off is running around the open world and stumbling upon a "I WANNA FIGHT THAT" vibe, something that more games should provide since it's very likely you'll always remember that new-found experience.
1:02:02 - Your frustration with a skill tree / leveling system / crafting / inventory management is something voiced by another critique TH-camr called Joseph Anderson who I love watching. He agrees with you that it's often tedious, boring, and unnecessary but hey if the leaf symbol is there you "HAVE" to hold triangle and get it, because if you don't you're losing out. Personally I don't mind it, but I understand those who do.
1:37:00 - Horizon Zero Dawn is the prettiest PS4 game I have ever played I also don't play a TON of Triple A titles, so hey. I'm also glad you mentioned Lance Reddick's magnificent voice acting. I love the way he portrayed Sylens.
1:43:00 - I hated the climbing in HZD personally, and I don't have anything to compare it to since I've never played Uncharted or Tomb Raider. It was incredibly frustrating to try and find what specific magical ledge I had to leap up to in order to start the sequence. I'm glad they didn't have the spamming X problem but honestly, why couldn't they have simply made it so it highlights on your focus? Seems like such a minor thing but it would improve traversing terrain monumentally.
2:03:00 - I'm so glad you said this was your favorite story moment in the game! It's a scene that's stuck with me a few days after playing. The way the music rises as the ventilating system goes off, as well as the screaming at Faro was extremely well done.
2:15:10 - Can I say I'm a bit disappointed you didn't talk much more about Helis' death? For me I choose the confrontation option since I felt like Aloy had enough fire in her(that was cannon) that she would hope it'd hurt Helis when he died because he had killed Rost. Her telling him to turn towards the sun was an incredibly badass moment in my opinion.
2:15:45 - I also felt this. I was hoping for a badass enemy at the end that we hadn't seen before, not another Deathbringer albeit more powerful. I know that it wouldn't have made much sense for it to be a moving animal like a Thunderjaw but something more epic could have been done with this final battle. That being said, going against it on Ultra Hard Mode was freakishly difficult which I appreciated since at least it gave a challenge.
Overall, I'm glad you enjoyed the game and thanks for an awesome critique!
I made it to the end, whew, that was a long piece of critique. I enjoyed the video, quite a lot actually; I don't agree to most of the extreme nitpicks, but hey, we just mean that we have different opinions and I respect that. One thing though bothered me and, if I may, I will try to explain myself. I'm an old gamer and I mean pong-old, not just NES or SNES-old so I've seen my fair share of systems and games. Over the years I've seen very minimalistic and simple games evolve into complete experiences with combat, exploration, stealth, crafting, collectibles, puzzles etc. etc. Now, unfortunately, I've noticed a tendency with 3A games of late to go back to their roots, back to a minimalistic or rather a simpler approach. Not every game suffered from it, mind you (see the souls series for example) but still I wish we weren't going in that direction once again. So when you said that you wished Guerrilla removed inventory management, crafting and skills I died a bit inside. If you remove that what's left? Going from place to place, eventually combat and jumping around... PLEASE, don't turn Horizon into a God of War with a better story, I want to DO something (or at least being given the impression of doing something) in videogames rather than pushing a directional stick and mashing a button to interact or attack.
Yeah, it was a little long. Probably too long to be honest.
I think I actually agree with your comment, which probably means I didn't do a good job explaining my points in the original video. Probably a symptom of it being a first one. To respond to your points: With inventory management, it's not so much that I want to remove the ability to collect things, but it's the need to constantly sell or drop items because my inventory has reached an arbitrary limit.
For skills, I like having the skills themselves, I just don't feel like it's a great reward for leveling up. In other words, I want to be able to do all the things you can do with the skills, but I don't feel the need for them to be slowly unlocked in the way they are. E.g. the whistle from the bushes. What I would love to see is skills that show real character growth. So let's imagine Aloy has reached level 10. Maybe at that point she can do something she couldn't before like climb on to a moving machine for a few hits or add in a new move to the end of her combo string. As it stands, the skills are just stat boosts which you don't notice or incredibly basic moves that should have been included from the start.
On the crafting point... I still think crafting can be done well and in a way that's meaningful but I don't think many games pull it off. What is crafting in Horizon, really? It's usually an extra step you have to take before firing more arrows. I rarely went out of my way to collect materials for ammo and couldn't even tell you what materials you needed for that off the top of my head. I just collected loads of stuff as I moved around the world. I don't mind collecting materials for specific armor. That felt a touch more meaningful and I'd like more things along those lines. What about being able to collect materials and craft custom armor to suit your needs? That would be cool. However to collect stuff for armor, I first had to collect fox skins to expand my inventory which was just an unnecessary extra step.
I definitely don't want Horizon to turn into God of War either, it's just at the moment it feels like it has things in the game to tick marketing boxes without them really adding anything to the experience. Anyway, that's where I was coming from with those criticisms. I probably didn't explain myself very well as it was my first video. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. If not, we can obviously just agree to disagree.
I'm just gonna say it: This guy is the next big thing in game reviews.
+DatUhu No pressure.
Man, watching this after finding it from the standard TH-cam rabbit hole, years after the video was uploaded...is kinda making me wanna throw this game back in the old ps4...
Oh yeah, and that Tinkerer skill is a must...
Edit: almost forgot: put it on hard mode for a much more enjoyable experience...if you're that kinda gamer. Guess I am.
Great job. I have to echo the compliment of a previous commenter -- I like that you talked about the story in multiple parts. It really allowed you to talk about some of the more interesting late-game story stuff in more depth. I hope you keep this up! Subscribed :)
Thanks, I'll do my best!
I can't believe I just watched a 2 1/2 hour video. Truly a great analysis of the game.
17:00 - I am loving that t-pose he does before he dies.
Me every time I see a thunder jaw “finally an opponent worthy of my skill”😂😂😂and then I proceed to annihilate it and turn it into a scrap yard😂😂
GAIA kept Hephaestus from creating machines to kill humans. Hephaestus was designated with creating machines to complete the other subordinate functions’ tasks. If Poseidon needs to purify water, Hephaestus would create a Snapmaw with a filtration system and ability to melt ice or freeze water as needed. As humans started slaughtering these machines in mass, Hephaestus wanted to build machines to defend the terraforming and task related machines. GAIA refuses to let Hephaestus harm humans and preferred to sacrifice machines to the humans. This set back and hindered tasks, but due to GAIA caring about life she didn’t care.
Once GAIA went offline, the subordinate functions went “rogue”, “deranged”, or “unstable”. This is a misguided understanding of these functions. Hephaestus was always going to create machines to defend other machines, but GAIA refused the request. GAIA was the mother function and no subordinate function could bypass her. No one except Hades, who was designed solely to get around GAIA.
For example, Demeter would have always requested Hephaestus to create machines to defend Demeter’s “gardeners” and flora. If humanity became a risk to all flora, Demeter would have defended the flora from humanity. Its function was to create and preserve fauna in the new world. It wouldn’t have sit back and let all its work be undone, except GAIA made Demeter sit and watch.
Without the shackles of GAIA, all subordinate functions would take their tasks far more literal. Protect fauna at all costs, protect flora at all costs, purify the water at all costs. GAIA was the function to create limitations and determine what is and is not a necessary sacrifice. If a human cuts down a tree to build a house, Artemis would want to kill the human. GAIA sees this as unreasonable and denied Artemis’ request.
Just my interpretation of GAIA’s relationship with all the subordinate functions and how they became “deranged”. Also, Hades was built out of a fear of GAIA failing. If GAIA created a world which was unsustainable, GAIA never would have reset or continued trying. Why? Because GAIA never would have been okay with killing any life to create new life. If the world could only sustain aquatic animals, GAIA wouldn’t risk the aquatic life to create sustainable room for humans. Hades would wipe the slate clean, tell GAIA to learn from her mistakes, and have her try again.
Terraforming the planet would cause catastrophic damage to ecosystems and kill species off in mass. GAIA would never have been okay with causing the extinction of even the most insignificant of insects. She felt sorrow over the death of a species of birds. This is why Hades was so important. It’s not just an unsuccessful attempt to create life, but if a successful attempt to create life wasn’t good enough to sustain all necessary life. Hades had to do what GAIA would always refuse to do; end life to create life. Sacrifice. Try again.
great explanation. THANKS!
1:45:37
You can filter out and see the legend by pressing OPTIONS and you can get rid of some of the markers if you want.
Regarding the genetics thing and Aloy not being a perfect match, I don't know exactly how much change there is or how fast, but as we age certain parts of our genetic materials change, so technically after time passes not even Elisabet Sobeck would be an identical match to a younger Elisabet Sobeck, so there could've been an allowed margin to account for changes short of a perfect match
+Justin ••• Oh, I didn't know that! Thanks. That makes sense.
Wrong. Our dna does not change. That is ridiculous. and Aloy is a perfect match. It's the software that is corrupted, the software was missing data.
Don't beleive everything you read on the internet. Out dna does not change. Do your own research to verify.
Another explanation is that the cloning process wasn’t perfect. That seems likely to me.
human cells do mutate over time. All human cells (including brain ones) are updated (they die and replaced with the new ones) in 7 years (for our species, other animals have different span of the same process) schedule (so humans are clones, lol, this is dreadful truth that the original person vanished being somewhat 7 years old and we are a replication of replication of him\her, not the entirely same person cause there are mistakes in replications from time to time) and are object of mutations which effectively makes 100% DNA's match insufficient to know that it's the same person, while 95% match (in particular species DNA's) would be totally ok.
Love that you called out the NPC's ridiculously stupid comments when Aloy first sneaks past the mechs with her focus on. Breathtakingly stupid. I think you undersold how dumb that part is, quite frankly.
On my first play through I missed so many side objectives and playing through it again now I think I've already sunk more hours into it than I originally did. They're easy to miss if you don't explore everything but we'll worth the time, I'm enjoying this play through so much more than the first. Particularly enjoyed the hunting lodge storyline.
Great vid as always Chris!
The cauldrons are a huge help for higher difficulty playthroughs. The watchers with good AI rng can kill sabertooth level enemies. In fact a single machine can turn the tide of nearly ALL battles in the game, so avoiding overrides can be a way to further increase difficulty....
The War Bows main advantage is as a tactical use weapon. The right shot in the right spot can freeze not just the Machines you're fighting but anything in the area. (including Aloy so be careful)
It's immensely satisfying to nail a difficult shot on a moving target but of course the trade off is potentially getting stomped while you're trying to get your shot off.
Let me put it this way, if you're good enough to know that freezing the cooling elements under a Thunderjaw will freeze anything in the area then you likely already know it's easier to shot the disc launcher off and fire at it's exposed sides.
Corruption Zones are the novice machine rider's best friend. The tactics and strategies you develop taking down Corrupted Machines will give you a massive advantage during gameplay when you cannot override a machine to get a combat friend
you don't need to do the hunting lodges in any particular order. I accidentally completed the nora hunting grounds first(because I put off the first one I was introduced to and the quest/errand)
I always took her creating aloy as a time crunch thing... She had to figure out something quick... She had no team... And she defaulted to what felt safe...
My favourite part that I don't think you mentioned was that the life-giving All-Mother goddess, was quite literally that. Gaia, Mother Earth, who gave life to them all.
Second video of yours I've jumped into today, think I might be getting addicted.
I'm in favor of this addiction.
I know I'm way too late, a few years down the line and having had a lot of discussion, there's a bit more consensus on the some story bits that are crucial and that you didn't get exactly right here. Which is understandable, the story in Horizon is amazing but it does ask a lot from you to really get it and I get you wanted to make the video instead of finding every single audio and text file.
First of all, as already mentioned, the game's timeline is in no way clear, with Hades probably reseting the terraforming process at least a couple times, maybe more. Some people have guessed based on the rock formations in caves that at least 15000 years must have passed.
Secondly, as also already mentioned, Hades isn't necessarily meant to use the Faro machines to do his thing. His function is to restart the process if it's clear the terraforming has gone wrong in the sense that it can support life but not human life. I think you might be thinking of this as if there are already some animals, or complex organisms rather, but a more likely scenario is something not so advanced in time. Like, if there is an atmosphere and oceans that support bacteria and unicellular organisms, GAIA would consider that very much as precious life.
But what if to get everything from there to a point where human life may exist it turns out that the amount of time that must pass if way longer than GAIA's estimated operational time. She is built to last, but surely she isn't eternal and she can't afford to take risk with thing taking longer than maybe some thousands of years, at most. Therefore, it would be better to reset things, and Hades is there to make sure she doesn't let a few bacteria maybe even algae or whatnot, stop her from doing what must be done.
He most likely wouldn't need the destructive capabilities of the Faro war machines for this kind of thing, and could very well be able to just use the Zero Dawn resources to do achieve it. That would make sense and be a totally justifiable reason for his presence. I don't think it's as contrive as you, and I actually thought it made a lot more sense to have something like that rather than just hoping for everything to work out well enough that Earth could simply be recovered first try.
Finally, regarding the subordinate functions being "freed". My personal theory is that the Far Zenith actually did fail, but its copy of Apollo is still intact. But more importantly, there is mention in some data files about a sort of activist hacker group. My theory is that they accidentally messed up the Odissey, or at least got a virus or something like that snuck up on its systems. Many many years later, by chance the Odissey happens to be in range of making contact with Earth again, and this virus sends itself to it and it is that which causes the subordinate functions to stop being subordinate.
At least it would give a purpose to the whole Far Zenith thing. Well, aside from Apollo, which I do very much think will come into play at some point. Also, I only wish Ted Faro was alive just so we get to kill him. I freaking hate that dude. I don't think I've ever hated a fictional character (maybe even also not fictional) more than him.
Anyway, great video, was the best one I found about Horizon by far (in the longer side at least), and I just wanted to drop my two cents on it.
The old ones died approximately 1000 years ago. It's stated in the game, and in the Forbidden west trailer.
" I don't think I've ever hated a fictional character (maybe even also not fictional) more than him."
TWO WORDS, Micah Bell.
@@xXGenericSpyMainXx Micah bell didn’t wipe out the world. You also got to kill Micah bell. We didn’t get to kill Ted faro
About this post-credits cutscene, i think that has nothing to do with magic. It's probably just this "NANOMASCHINES, SON" thing.
Nice! Well done, this was very interesting to hear/see. Never heard of the game (not owning a modern console) but it would be a reason to get my hands on a PS4 i suppose. Thanks for your time and effort, have a sub good sir!
Thanks! If you only get one game for the PS4, I highly recommend this one!
It is criminal that you don't have more subscribers. Thank you for the work you put into these in-depth analysis videos.
Great critique of a great game. I think it was Ted Faro who sent the message! He had his own bunker, and the wherewithal to extend his life. He would make the perfect antagonist in the upcoming sequel. He has totally avoided justice for his actions thus far, so I reckon there's payback due! I think Sylens will continue to be an ally of Aloy, albeit with his own agenda. I think Sylens quest for knowledge, and Faro's suppression of it, might be a major part of HZD2's story!
Geez man, what a damn good prediction.
@@zacharycollierAW-PL IKR! Impressive!
Same.
You and Joseph Anderson are my two favorite video game reviewers.
Thanks!
Hands down the best game of 2017. I'm buying the PC version as soon as it's on velixbox
map filters were indeed added later and it was a godsend
+John Wenzel That really should have been in the original release. It's such a basic thing to leave out, but I'm glad they've patched it in for new players.
Hey, did you hear that there is going to be dlc next month? I think it is called Frozen Wilds or something. I wonder what that is going to be about.
Yep, I'll be buying that. Will probably do a short video on it too.
I'm going to be "that ass."
I think the crafting, light inventory system, and gathering aspects that you say detract from the pacing are.. an attempt to be "ludonarratively resonant".
Aloy would legitimately have to stop and gather to prepare for a fight like she'd go on.
Which.. I just realized is sorta like people using the bathroom in a book. It never happens if the pacing doesn't require it.
+Jason Deutschbein I don't mind a bit of realism, but I draw the line at a QTE mini-game for using the bathroom.
Chris Davis well said
Hey, I came back to watch this one again after watching the Frozen Wilds video. I did have a comment regarding the Erund sidequest being elevated to a main quest.
I think it had less to do with the amount of work they put into the game wanting to be seen. I believe it's because this quest line is what establishes your relationship with the Sun King.
The “bolt” that freed the sub-systems will almost certainly be “Zeus” another ai that desired to free the sub-systems (the Greek mythology set-up is just too strong).
Also, I think the ship did blow up before exiting the atmosphere, but that does mean that Apollo could still exist in some form.
Really good job man,keep it up
Thanks! Appreciate the support.
I’ve watched a few videos of yours and this one made me subscribe to this channel. Every segment was well crafted and almost all of the clips showed exactly what you were addressing. I stopped and deleted Zero Dawn halfway because of the pacing but I am now all caught up all thanks to this you. So glad to have discovered your channel haha
I know I'm very late and I guess you already know this, but I don't see any comment mentioning it so I'll do it anyway: you can actually go near Rost's house and find his grave, and you can talk at the grave about the main quest and other stuff. Pretty nice detail, since even if Rost was still alive he would be there listening silently to Aloy
Also, the Odyssey ship log says that telemetry said the ship got destroyed, but it could also be possible the telemetry was wrong. After all, it was at the edge of the solar system, and it was manipulating dark matter or something, so that could like distort the signals coming to earth. So not all hope is lost
Aloy has roughly 2/3rds of a percent unknown DNA -- that is a HUGE number of differences from Sobeck. Much too big a difference for mere DNA coding errors; GAIA modified her to give her superior physical capabilities on top of her very superior native intelligence (remember how she caused even the genius Sylens to sputter in surprise about her already knowing the earth is round from a few tiny facts (we are talking Sherlock Holmes smarts here!) to give her more chance to survive) -- kind of like Batman had to be a rather near-super-human person or he would not have had a chance against his enemies, no matter what money he had (he did not have an Ironman suit, after all) -- and there would not necessarily have been time for her to do this more than once (remember the microscopic time stamps GAIA gave for her suicidal actions in trying to short-stop HADES).
wow I just gotta say this is some incredibly high quality content I can't wait to see what's in store for the future I've been listening to all of your videos while I'm at work and they've kept me really entertained I'll definitely be looking forward to your next video keep up the great work
Nice critique, even though I am only halfway through. However, I think your idea of completely scrapping the skill tree may temporarily work out, but hurts the game in the long run by forcing the game to do an extended tutorial in order to introduce all the mechanics. A better solution would be to unlock a skill from each tree every five levels or so. This would erase the need for essential skills being gone, while still allowing players to specifically choose skills they want. Idk, just thought getting rid of an essential part of the game is a bit short-sighted
1:58:50 your genetics knowledge compensation: there's no such thing as "100% genetic match". the only way to have a 100% genetic match is when you compare YOUR OWN genes to YOUR OWN genes. And even then, if there's some years (or decades) between the original sample taken from you, and you as a current person, it's not going to be 100% match, it's going to be 99.8whatever% match.
Because your DNA changes as you live.
If you want to check "yes, this specimen is human", you have to have the threshold around 98% (if we ignore the philosophical musings of what "human" means, and which would also validate some kinds of apes as humans, btw). 98% match is equivalent to "it's a monkey, or it's a human being 10+ generations away from original sample". If you want anything more precise, you need to start looking for specific gene sequences/signifiers. But the more specific gene sequences/signifiers you're looking for, the higher the risk that even a genuine (though several generations apart) human will come out in the check as negative. In this case, there's a risk that even some humans from the same generation as original sample would come out as negative (not a human), because of the variations of those specific sequences that you look for...
...this is very much going into the philosophy of "what is still human, and what's not anymore", which is an extremely complicated topic, even now, if we ignore all of the ages of generational and environmental shift.
So... either you do a precise check for "humans as they were", hugely risking it won't validate a human just because it's several generations away from the original sample, or you do a check for "at least 97% human match", therefore enabling the generational gap, while at the same time, risking that some random ape could get a positive result as human.
Either way, you need at least .3% or so leeway for changes like hair color, skin color, body and face build, gender, even when you're checking for "a human of the same generation as the original sample".
...because that's just how DNA works ;)
yeah I loved how this game actually seemed to be aware of how cloning and DNA works. The only reason why the cradle facility had the genetic material for Sobek is because of the abandoned lightkeeper protocol. The DNA for the clones of all of the ALPHAS is obviously going to slightly be different therefore the door were created to recognize clones of the original people who could access these facilities. So on multiple levels the details are really good.
Always assumed the point of Hades was to revert the world back if the world wasn't recreated as it was in the 21st century, to combat some messed up super plant or some other biosphere imbalance. Didnt dwell on it as most of the other stuff was 10/10 and kept my attention
+Mark Mullan I think you're right. Hades was there to fix potential biological issues. I guess my issue is that Hades should never have been programmed with the ability to kill humans. I can't think of a situation where Hades needs to fix the Earth by killing people.
@@ChrisDavis_Games Really late comment, but you're right, Hades isn't supposed to be able to kill humans. It's supposed to be triggered way earlier, but a signal of unknown origins activated him, even though there were humans.
This inspires me to replay horizon while paying more attention to immersing myself in the story. A true immersive playthrough of witcher 3 really changed how I view game stories and having played this prior to completing the witcher, and listening to your critique I feel I've truly missed out
I like how the hiding grass is red so the redhead protagonist can blend in
I like the narrative of the game. You can see the big picture from the start, but then you get a constant trickle of lore about how the civilization fell, it kept me invested in moving forward
I didn't mind fighting humans, you just hide and batman the shit out of them, while fighting machines was a mix of opening with some cheap shots while sneaking, the going full dark souls on them, I felt the combat was pretty satisfying in both cases
This game has a lot of neat details, I enjoyed it a lot, but it took me so long to complete that I don't want to play it ever again
Man, so many points to discuss about this game, like sticking to 4 weapons and converting them into elemental weapons, my hunter bow was my fire weapon, my sharpshooter was my physical/tear, and I always changed armors depending on the enemies I was fighting, the resistances really have a huge impact
I actively searched for the thunder jaws because fighting them was really fun and even at the end game victory was not a guarantee
I totally agree about the weaponwheel. I never even fired one arrow with the warbow. I used my tripplearrow-perked hunterbow with fire to finish most enemies of and the longshot for ranged killing and the teararrows. I saw no reason what so ever to "bench" any of the other two bows for the warbow. Having three bows in the wheel would just be unpractical. However i think you should be able to match any type of arrow to any type of bow.
you are missing a BIG plot point in the fact hades was never supposed to activate after humans were released he was only supposed to be active during the microorganism phase if things went wrong
About the 99.47% genetic match, assuming their dna scanning technique is 100% accurate, even after hundreds of years of wear and tear, Aloy ought to be a 100% genetic match with Sobek. In reality though, it makes sense the scanner would have some margin of error, like 1 or 2%
Thank God I was able to get a Ps5. My first playstation ever. In the past few weeks I've completed God of War, Ratchet and Clank, and Horizon Zero Dawn. I was so close to staying with Xbox but man did I make the right decision. I missed out on so many good games and I actually feel excited playing games again.
The lesson to be learned: just get the plastic box with electronics inside that has exclusive games that look really interesting to you. Also, great choice of games to play on your first Play Station.
Not sure if anybody answered this already, but DNA doesn't remain unchanged throughout a lifetime which is why a margin of error has to be allowed. Even Sobeck herself could have easily deviated by a fraction of a percent during a year of her life. I'm not sure how realistic a 0.53% changed throughout Aloy's lifetime (18, 19 years?) is, but the fact is that DNA can change ever so slightly. I think most of the DNA change happens before childbirth, but I'm no expert on this. The point is that it's reasonably realistic and I was actually positively surprised that the developers accounted for that deviation, because it actually subtly gave away that Aloy is essentially a clone. That had me speculating of what Project: Zero Dawn really was, but I was still off. I thought it might have been a cryogenics program. xD
DNA first changes significantly as an embryo in utero. After that stability decreases with age, as cellular mitosis causes mutations that the body can't repair effectively. On a genome level, it is probable that Aloy's DNA has changed by at least several percent in her lifetime. However, DNA doesn't change evenly across the board. Some genes are more susceptible to mutation than others (usually based on inherited factors), and environmental factors usually affect specific genes.
DNA analysis doesn't look for 1:1 matches, but compares how much is identical, or similar, as well as deviations. So in effect, and simplifying how probability works, what the Zero Dawn facility computation would be saying, were it to be presented accurately, is not that Aloy is a 99.47% identical match to Sobeck's genome, but that there is a 99.47% probability that Aloy is Sobeck.
Old comment reply, sorry. I work primarily in bacterial vaccines, and how games present biological science is always interesting to me.
the whole thing on genetics could be accounting for epigenetics which if you cloned someone from their adult dna would not be the same.
+Headcrabgordan I'll take your word for it, as that's well above my understanding ;-)
I like that for your first video you only brought it up briefly. So many gaming channels I've watched for info for specific games have made the grievous mistake of putting a long section of the vid as an intro. No better way to lower engagement imo.
Just digging into this review, but I'll start by sharing my impressions of the game, having just finished it a couple weeks ago: loved the story though the ending felt somewhat anticlimactic from a gameplay perspective. I liked that each machine was sort of a little puzzle unto itself, and as you memorize their weaknesses without needing to constantly refer to the scanner or your notebook you do start to feel like a seasoned hunter. However, combat against the bigger more aggressive machines could become an exercise in spamming the dodge-roll button until they stop trying to delete you, so you can shoot weakpoints. It's likely I was just failing to use every tool in my toolbox, but still. I loved the fact that the twist was more of a slow reveal rather than a lazy sudden infodump.
You say in the analysis that it probably wouldn't have been hard for survivors to love in the underground vaults until the earth was livable again, but I have serious doubts that they would have had enough power to keep facilities running for a little over 300 years. Just think how much power would be required for farming equipment and water/air purification. I'm not going to claim it's impossible because we have no clue just how advanced this alternate reality is. It just seems unlikely to create a thriving community underground that would last for the 3 centuries it take Gaia to completely heal the earth. Especially if you consider the fact that the first cloned humans had to leave their vault after a little over 20 years due to a food shortage. This was really the only thing I disagree with, I honestly think the most reliable plan is the one that was executed I the game. everything else was spot on in this review. Thanks for this amazing content.
I also hope Faro is alive in the next game so I can kill that snake for destroying all human historty out of fear of being seen as responsible for the extinction of all life ;)
I've probably just spent too much time playing Fallout games. They make surviving underground look easy ;-)
You are so underrated. Just found your channel and your thoughts on Horizon: Zero Dawn are spot on.
The cauldrons surprised me a bit. After the first two cauldrons I went into, I expected them to be very long with a lot of information about the world. I was honestly taken aback when I visited two cauldrons that were just a short path that leads to a boss fight. I just was kinda disappointed with two of them but all were fun.
You do so well with your commentary and overall objective critiques that I feel that I have to subscribe. Can't wait for more of these.
Thanks!
Hi Chris! I discovered your channel yesterday thanks to your Evil Within video and I must say that I'm pretty impressed with your work! I love these long, well detailed critiques, and your vision on game design and plot development is very similar to my beliefs. Keep up with the great work!
i don't think we'll ever get rid of focus modes/detective visions anymore, mainly due to how visual fidelity and level of detail have progressed.
because in the olden, low-poly, low-fi times, it was easy to parse the environment and notice (usually due to precisely different, higher level of fidelity) which objects are interactive.
but today, when everything is trying to be as high-fidelity and high-detail as possible, it results in... well, visual clutter. no way to parse out what is interactive/relevant and what is just eyecandy, without explicitly trying.
focus mode is (sadly) currently the only solution we have for that.
...besides "permanent outline mode" like in new deus ex, which is... i'd argue... even worse.
I've played about 50% of the first killzone in splitscreen coop with a friend, amazing fun!
I recommend you play the game on ultra hard again. The stealth approach basically doesn't work anymore in bandit camps because enemies are much more aware of their surroundings and will spot you instantly if you do a silent strike outside of the grass or if you use lure call twice. They are real fun at this difficulty because it's about how many you can kill before you get spotted and an open melee fight with all the archers in the background is a real challenge. I feel you can't really decide whether this game is too hard or too easy for you and you contradict yourself a lot. Also try the devil's thirst camp with just the hunter bow equipped. You'll probably get squashed like a bug the first time you try it on ultra. And one more thing: What do you expect from Human enemies? You're probably dead in real life too if you get a sharpshot precision arrow into your head or two into your chest. some bandit lords even have a head protector, so this strategy becomes ineffective (It's in the DLC which isn't a valid argument because it came out after this but it fixes a lot of issues you have with the game and fills up the remaining plot holes such as why the machines became more aggressive)
Some other things that don't work on Ultra Hard anymore: Tearblast Arrows are basically ineffective: It takes abut 10 Clean hits to knock off a Disc Launcher from a Thunderjaw. There are many better ways to deal with it at this difficulty. Weapons are much more expensive so by the time you can afford them you're probably way deeper into the game than you are on normal.
Machines do twice as much damage, so the rolling isn't overpowered anymore. A tail swing from a stalker is lethal in one blow and without the long roll you'd be lost. Getting Blazing Suns on Ultra is actually insanely difficult and more of a challenge in itself rather than an easy way to level up.
Yes. Not sure if the game needs to be played on hardest difficulty but it certainly can't be played on easy or story. The gameplay is vastly watered down on easier difficulties, and i would argue not fun.
Looking forward for more videos..very interesting and in-depth review.