I feel the same. From 2020 to early 2022, it feels like a blur to me, I still vaguely remember Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth's hype cycles from back then
People who still think Byleth is bad is just on copium. I've been mocked for saying he was good, then Byleth dominated with him and oh boy now I was just "pretending" to believe in him for "clout." The community has some bad issue with admitting they were wrong about a character. They'd rather insult the people who were correct instead of admit the facts. Not everyone does this but I've seen too many who did.
lmaoo the people that know me know i’ve been hoping for byleth in smash since i played fe3h so can’t say I’ve been called a fake byleth fan lmao, but for sure they are way better than what people think they are. also i love your videos dude, I’m a lucina main, we should collab if ur interested. we could reach 2k together 👀
This video is one of many videos that could be made of "X character was mid tier but then MKLeo picked them up so they're top tier now" and I think that's funny. He did it with Ike (Kinda), he did it with Joker and to this day he's still top 10 and who knows there might have been another
Tier Lists are more result lists than anything else with. What I’m trying to say is that 30% is like a real power measurement and 70% is “Pro player X won 7 majors with this character, S- tier”. Of course that power and what they can do if a key factor on the tier list too, however, with how the lists update and change and switch, i wouldnt put them as the ultimate way of checking what character to pick. Byleth kicks as, and so do Kazuya and Ganondorf.
Another great video, really liked the pace of everything and documenting how far byleth had risen up the ranks. I was gonna play them either way because fe fan but I was shook when people started calling them good lmao
2022 Leo was what finally convinced me to solo main Byleth, and I never looked back. Also, even tho Leo doesn't pull him out very often these days, whenever he does it makes me immediately 10x more hyped. UFA vs Tariq was incredible to watch
One day it will happen to DK too. I am still a big believer of that character and still think he is the best heavy behind Incineroar (Yes, better than Bowser as well) As the current meta goes on I feel like being able to make an opponent explode for 1-2 mistakes is key and man if DK does it so well with all the openings he can get from his moves
Tier lists should be MU based & the character who wins the most MU’s should be on top . The MU’s can change as we get to experience different character matches & what occurs in those matches but results can be subjective; especially when certain characters are countering the meta while having a lot of bad MU’s . Corrin is the perfect example of that
if i was good at math i would totally take the time to look at all the top 5 matchup charts for each character, average them out into one single chart, and make a tier list based on who does well against the most amount of fighters and by how much
I already think they are for the most part. Look up the definition/description of “Tier list” and you will see the explanation in wiki or whatever saying almost exactly that for each tier and what it means. It overall it is supposed to be that way and what tier lists are actually are
@@sauce8277 if you watch most tier lists videos, you’d see a lot of recency bias, personal feelings involved (x character destroys my character) & results
@@problemsnearyou8899what are you talking about bruh? Corrin only has 8 bad MU. And only 2 of them are -2 (fox &Sheikh). Even SHADIC said Corrin doesn't have MU that felt unwinnable like Roy Vs Kazuya for example. Samus is like one of the worst MU but SHADIC proof it's certainly doable!!! I mean he doubled 3 stock is the best Samus in the world for God sake!!!
The lesson here should be stop being arrogant. Byleth and Corrin are two clear examples of being on the receiving end of mockery, and then people get surprised when they start doing good. We just need to accept that we don't know everything sometimes.
That nair makes it all work imo, otherwise you may as well play Sephiroth. It gives Byleth a shield pressure game that isn't just "space aerial safely. Then punish try to punish what they tend to pick when they're shield is getting low". Sure, Byleth can do that as well, but having a way to change the pace is crucial to finding openings in places your opponent wasn't expecting. Shield poke nair into a tech chase. Maybe catch a jump and force them to pick an option before they get hit. Catching a spot dodge similarly is quite nice. If they for some reason roll in while your mid jump, reacting to it with nair is solid as well. The only thing that isn't cleanly covered is roll back, but being in the corner against a swordie isn't the best spot to be in anyways, so 🤷. Her rough frame data and only average ground moves outside of fsmash creates a lopsided matchup chart that I would assume is difficult to Solo main. But clearly on paper it was doable, even if it took the best player in the world to do it. He 100% couldn't do that with K Rool, DK, Falcon and similarly Mid Tier characters. He could only do it with a relatively High tier choice, and I'd say Byleth overall fits the bill nicely. Just as a Co-Main rather than a solo, which eventual clearly came to be true even for Leo.
I loved this video, fantastic editing, great pacing, the text based edits and tier list spotlights in particular were very cool to see. Also the hbox and dabuz jokes had me rolling. I really hope this vid does well m8, you clearly put a ton of work into it and it shows.
I use Byleth. I have been considering making him my main. Has great range, a powerful bow shot, fast smashes, and kill power, and lives to high percentages. Has a great move set and maybe the best spiking down air in the game.
The reason people stopped rating Byleth as high tier was bc the meta shifted to something Byleth wasn’t as strong at handling. When the meta was stuff like Peach, Palu, and the odd weird high tier scratching the top, Byleth could handle those matchups way better. But as we settled into a meta featuring Steve we began to see how characters like Byleth struggled when they don’t get to control the pacing of their matches. Byleth was slept on the same way Corrin was. And nobody ever really realized they were wrong. And now that he went from perceived low tier to upper mid tier instead of perceived low tier to top tier, everyone seems to think they were right about Byleth being trash all along.
You don't have to tell me to main Byleth, I love FE3H and was a Byleth main from Day 1. I was also hyped to see that Leo picked him up, sad to see he doesn't play him anymore.
Byleth dropping back to mid tier is mainly due to his poor fit in the current meta more than MkLeo dropping him. His poor mobility is so exploitable by the top 3 characters in the game (Steve, Sonic, G&W) that one has to be way to on top of his game to get good results with him. But still he is a great character and whenever he isnt playing against stupid time wasting characters that will never aproach you and wait to get punishes he is still a high tier.
real but also i think roy is still very very good maybe a hot take bc im a lucina believer but i feel like her and roy are equally good and it’s just a matter of which playstyle you prefer. i miss watching kola vs protobanham bc it’s literally the same character except lucina can switch from offense to defense and roy is all offense
@@aann Lucina has laways been fine but she's like the only other generic character shes like Pit where she's just avery generic character move wise, she has zero flair but that makes her good because she doesn't have to rely on one or two things, she's like Brawl Marth but not as good as brawl marth
Personally I think a FG with 80 characters should be tiered like how card games tier decks: Completely ignore talking about the nobodies unless they deliver results at tournament(s). Who cares if Byleth is good or not, (s)he's won big tournaments & against the world's best players. Shulk and Inkling are crying in the corner
MKLeo definitely showed that this character is more than a mid tier, even though Byleth may not be very good as the top or high tiers. If only there were more Byleth reps at higher level then more people may be able to see the potential in him, but since Leo doesn't play him anymore and other top Byleths disappearing I doubt if this'll happen. I'll always love Byleth though.
I always knew this character was deadass op. Crazy range and crazy power. And moves are spam able. Also broken as shit recovery and the bs shield break. People who sqy this character sucks are high on some good shit.
I thought this was a solid video however I feel some things are exaggerated like Leo and Acola playing a lot when they’ve only play 3 times twice at Ludwig and once at Summit 6
@@user-be3qc7re9o Sorry. No that's just not it. I watched the set closely. He played neuche fine. He found his confirms. Unlike the past, people got hit. This time when he needed them to, they didn't because opponents are ready. Byleth cant afford that. She's too slow and needs that reward just to keep up these days. Byleth just isn't good enough anymore.
I know the video is about Byleth and how MK Leo put them on, but Its ironic that Mk Leo’s roster is 90% swordies lol. Tweek has a better “pool” of characters to me that are all so vastly different that he’s competed with, all in which placed his characters in top or high tier. Examples: Tweeks character roster for competitive smash play include: Diddy, wolf, wario, PT(squirtle, Ivy, Charizard), Roy, Sephoroth, Banjo, mega man? Banjo being his “newest” edition, but if he gave it time and played them consitently everyone would change his placement from mid to high 😭. Same with mega man
I love byleth and i don’t get why people call her/him still bad because byleth has many combo’s and a lot of stong killing options!! And i myself don’t think speed is the MOST important thing i mean it is important but you can see that even if byleth is slow she/he kan still be quite good!!❤❤ (also i love your video’s stay going man❤)
thanks for the comment!! yea i mean most top tiers are super quick so ig people make the assumption that slow characters must be bad, but tbh byleth isn’t even that slow and the sacrificed mobility for power is kind of worth it in the end
No one was proved wrong, having results does not make your character better. The fact that now people are back to consider Byleth mid tier, including MkLeo himself, really should make you think.
The only reason people are going back to consider Byleth mid tier is because the current top tiers like Steve and Sonic do well into Byleth. The meta shifted to something that didn’t favor Byleth. Byleth absolutely was way too happy to rate Byleth as mid when at the time they were absolutely better than that. This community has an issue with admitting when they’re wrong
if having results doesn’t make your character better, not having results does not make your character worse. Byleth only dropped down to mid tier because ultimate’s top threats right now are pretty bad matchups for them so it makes sense that we’re seeing them less, but when pitted against the entire cast equally, Byleth does beat out a majority. Ultimate’s meta when Leo’s byleth was ruling the scene was a lot more diverse than it is now, so Leo had the chance to show the world that Byleth handles a lot of characters. We may be seeing them less often now thanks to sonic steve and g&w, but less results don’t mean Byleth isn’t good anymore/never was. If we had a healthier, more diverse meta then they’d be back in the high tiers and maybe Leo wouldn’t see them as mid anymore. it is what it is. also this video was pretty much complete before the second tier list came out lol. would’ve loved to talk about this in the video but it was too late. good point either way, thanks for leaving ur thoughts :)
No hate or anything, but I still disagree because this feels like another case of a top player making getting good results with a non high/top tier char and then they automatically become really good and notice how when Leo stopped playing them, they fell back into mid tier like the time a mega man got 2nd at Evo in Smash 4 and he instantly became top tier.
Byleth is a top tier. No player, no matter how good, can completely and utterly dominate the meta and win the vast majority of the world's major tourneys for 1½ years with a character that isn't top tier.
BRO BYLETH WAS 4 YEARS AGO???? I THOUGHT IT WAS LAST YEAR OR 2022 EARLIEST. Time is a blur since COVID....
Dude smash dlc ended in the end of 21
@@captainrojas26 holy sht wtf...isn't this game like new?
Who's gonna tell him the game is gonna be 6 years old this year?
I feel the same. From 2020 to early 2022, it feels like a blur to me, I still vaguely remember Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth's hype cycles from back then
Leo said on Lights out he doesn't believe in Byleth anymore.
True. But Thats why the title says “When” lol
He lost one set to Sonix and gave up. Since he dropped byleth, he fell out of top 10.
@@DemonEyeHelix tbf players have figured out byleth so i'm not surprised on why he dropped him.
@@isuck6049there’s not much to figure out when byleths move set is so simple. It’s Leo they figured out
People who still think Byleth is bad is just on copium. I've been mocked for saying he was good, then Byleth dominated with him and oh boy now I was just "pretending" to believe in him for "clout."
The community has some bad issue with admitting they were wrong about a character. They'd rather insult the people who were correct instead of admit the facts. Not everyone does this but I've seen too many who did.
lmaoo the people that know me know i’ve been hoping for byleth in smash since i played fe3h so can’t say I’ve been called a fake byleth fan lmao, but for sure they are way better than what people think they are.
also i love your videos dude, I’m a lucina main, we should collab if ur interested. we could reach 2k together 👀
please collab together I love both of your content and it would be awesome to see
This video came out way too late lol. Byleth is not looking high tier anymore.
Eh. I think the game just evolved to where only top tiers matter. Which is usually how it is for most fightning games
2:43 Holy shit, Corrin in low tier… from Leo himself too LMAO
2020 was a different time man
what 0 representation does to a mf
This video is one of many videos that could be made of "X character was mid tier but then MKLeo picked them up so they're top tier now" and I think that's funny. He did it with Ike (Kinda), he did it with Joker and to this day he's still top 10 and who knows there might have been another
Tier Lists are more result lists than anything else with. What I’m trying to say is that 30% is like a real power measurement and 70% is “Pro player X won 7 majors with this character, S- tier”. Of course that power and what they can do if a key factor on the tier list too, however, with how the lists update and change and switch, i wouldnt put them as the ultimate way of checking what character to pick. Byleth kicks as, and so do Kazuya and Ganondorf.
real. literally happened to corrin and im hoping it happens to kirby lol
@@aann let’s hope JeJaJeJa or Guilheww or whoever pops off at a major and wins lmao
Depends on the person making the tier list. Some might bias it towards results more while others will bias it towards feeling.
Ganandorf fuckin sucks
Oh you meant for cool factor, yeah true
Another great video, really liked the pace of everything and documenting how far byleth had risen up the ranks. I was gonna play them either way because fe fan but I was shook when people started calling them good lmao
glad you enjoyed :)) hope you try out byleth soon then they’re way fun
This just proves that most pros don’t know wtf they are talking about
2022 Leo was what finally convinced me to solo main Byleth, and I never looked back. Also, even tho Leo doesn't pull him out very often these days, whenever he does it makes me immediately 10x more hyped. UFA vs Tariq was incredible to watch
This and the corrin video deserves a big sub
welcome :))
One day it will happen to DK too. I am still a big believer of that character and still think he is the best heavy behind Incineroar (Yes, better than Bowser as well)
As the current meta goes on I feel like being able to make an opponent explode for 1-2 mistakes is key and man if DK does it so well with all the openings he can get from his moves
Tier lists should be MU based & the character who wins the most MU’s should be on top . The MU’s can change as we get to experience different character matches & what occurs in those matches but results can be subjective; especially when certain characters are countering the meta while having a lot of bad MU’s . Corrin is the perfect example of that
if i was good at math i would totally take the time to look at all the top 5 matchup charts for each character, average them out into one single chart, and make a tier list based on who does well against the most amount of fighters and by how much
I already think they are for the most part. Look up the definition/description of “Tier list” and you will see the explanation in wiki or whatever saying almost exactly that for each tier and what it means. It overall it is supposed to be that way and what tier lists are actually are
@@sauce8277 if you watch most tier lists videos, you’d see a lot of recency bias, personal feelings involved (x character destroys my character) & results
@@problemsnearyou8899what are you talking about bruh? Corrin only has 8 bad MU. And only 2 of them are -2 (fox &Sheikh). Even SHADIC said Corrin doesn't have MU that felt unwinnable like Roy Vs Kazuya for example. Samus is like one of the worst MU but SHADIC proof it's certainly doable!!! I mean he doubled 3 stock is the best Samus in the world for God sake!!!
@@riqua27 SHADIC is a different beast . Corrin is obviously good but I don’t think they’re top tier
Up B -> Down Air = 🎉🎉
Fr fr!!
The lesson here should be stop being arrogant. Byleth and Corrin are two clear examples of being on the receiving end of mockery, and then people get surprised when they start doing good. We just need to accept that we don't know everything sometimes.
Excellent fresh content in this scene, keep at it
hey thanks :)) working on more stuff right now
the smash scene right now is rly great imo. the 4 horsemen narrative is hype as fuck
That nair makes it all work imo, otherwise you may as well play Sephiroth. It gives Byleth a shield pressure game that isn't just "space aerial safely. Then punish try to punish what they tend to pick when they're shield is getting low".
Sure, Byleth can do that as well, but having a way to change the pace is crucial to finding openings in places your opponent wasn't expecting. Shield poke nair into a tech chase. Maybe catch a jump and force them to pick an option before they get hit. Catching a spot dodge similarly is quite nice. If they for some reason roll in while your mid jump, reacting to it with nair is solid as well. The only thing that isn't cleanly covered is roll back, but being in the corner against a swordie isn't the best spot to be in anyways, so 🤷.
Her rough frame data and only average ground moves outside of fsmash creates a lopsided matchup chart that I would assume is difficult to Solo main. But clearly on paper it was doable, even if it took the best player in the world to do it. He 100% couldn't do that with K Rool, DK, Falcon and similarly Mid Tier characters. He could only do it with a relatively High tier choice, and I'd say Byleth overall fits the bill nicely. Just as a Co-Main rather than a solo, which eventual clearly came to be true even for Leo.
I loved this video, fantastic editing, great pacing, the text based edits and tier list spotlights in particular were very cool to see. Also the hbox and dabuz jokes had me rolling. I really hope this vid does well m8, you clearly put a ton of work into it and it shows.
I use Byleth. I have been considering making him my main. Has great range, a powerful bow shot, fast smashes, and kill power, and lives to high percentages. Has a great move set and maybe the best spiking down air in the game.
The reason people stopped rating Byleth as high tier was bc the meta shifted to something Byleth wasn’t as strong at handling. When the meta was stuff like Peach, Palu, and the odd weird high tier scratching the top, Byleth could handle those matchups way better. But as we settled into a meta featuring Steve we began to see how characters like Byleth struggled when they don’t get to control the pacing of their matches.
Byleth was slept on the same way Corrin was. And nobody ever really realized they were wrong. And now that he went from perceived low tier to upper mid tier instead of perceived low tier to top tier, everyone seems to think they were right about Byleth being trash all along.
You don't have to tell me to main Byleth, I love FE3H and was a Byleth main from Day 1.
I was also hyped to see that Leo picked him up, sad to see he doesn't play him anymore.
Byleth dropping back to mid tier is mainly due to his poor fit in the current meta more than MkLeo dropping him. His poor mobility is so exploitable by the top 3 characters in the game (Steve, Sonic, G&W) that one has to be way to on top of his game to get good results with him. But still he is a great character and whenever he isnt playing against stupid time wasting characters that will never aproach you and wait to get punishes he is still a high tier.
Are we finally acknowledging Roy isn't as viable or totally busted? Sick.
real but also i think roy is still very very good
maybe a hot take bc im a lucina believer but i feel like her and roy are equally good and it’s just a matter of which playstyle you prefer.
i miss watching kola vs protobanham bc it’s literally the same character except lucina can switch from offense to defense and roy is all offense
@@aann Lucina has laways been fine but she's like the only other generic character shes like Pit where she's just avery generic character move wise, she has zero flair but that makes her good because she doesn't have to rely on one or two things, she's like Brawl Marth but not as good as brawl marth
Personally I think a FG with 80 characters should be tiered like how card games tier decks: Completely ignore talking about the nobodies unless they deliver results at tournament(s). Who cares if Byleth is good or not, (s)he's won big tournaments & against the world's best players. Shulk and Inkling are crying in the corner
Leo can use any caracter metwo, gerniya make them look crasy
Who?
MKLeo definitely showed that this character is more than a mid tier, even though Byleth may not be very good as the top or high tiers. If only there were more Byleth reps at higher level then more people may be able to see the potential in him, but since Leo doesn't play him anymore and other top Byleths disappearing I doubt if this'll happen.
I'll always love Byleth though.
Leo needs to address the allegations of him dropping Byleth already.
Byleth mains RIIIIIIIISE
LETS GOOO BYLETH MAINS RISE
He actually played byleth at genesis this year and played byleth at kingcon
Yeah but only for lower matches, he also lost a set due to this on genesis, that's why he'll most likely just stay with joker
I always knew this character was deadass op. Crazy range and crazy power. And moves are spam able.
Also broken as shit recovery and the bs shield break.
People who sqy this character sucks are high on some good shit.
My name is Andrew I was indeed scared, and it was silly
Can we just...not have Alear in the nextr smash game? (Lyn gang rise up!)
lyn would go hard in smash
Imagine if we lived in the timeline where sakurai chose seliph instead of roy
@@ellachino4799 Nah screw it Leif
I thought this was a solid video however I feel some things are exaggerated like Leo and Acola playing a lot when they’ve only play 3 times twice at Ludwig and once at Summit 6
Byleth doesn't work on lightweight character
Byleth is what made Mkleo lose Genesis leaving him without a single game to make mistakes. Gakct got out of almost every single combo with simply SDI.
You have to keep in mind that Leo also hasn't been practicing with Byleth that much either, so it's moreso him being out of practice than anything.
@@user-be3qc7re9o Sorry. No that's just not it. I watched the set closely. He played neuche fine. He found his confirms. Unlike the past, people got hit. This time when he needed them to, they didn't because opponents are ready. Byleth cant afford that. She's too slow and needs that reward just to keep up these days. Byleth just isn't good enough anymore.
@@sauce8277
I'm just going off of what Leo himself stated.
He admitted to not having his characters ready as he should have.
Someone can be wrong about themselves. He's been wrong before. I understand your choice to do that though.
@@user-be3qc7re9o
I know the video is about Byleth and how MK Leo put them on, but Its ironic that Mk Leo’s roster is 90% swordies lol. Tweek has a better “pool” of characters to me that are all so vastly different that he’s competed with, all in which placed his characters in top or high tier. Examples: Tweeks character roster for competitive smash play include: Diddy, wolf, wario, PT(squirtle, Ivy, Charizard), Roy, Sephoroth, Banjo, mega man?
Banjo being his “newest” edition, but if he gave it time and played them consitently everyone would change his placement from mid to high 😭. Same with mega man
I doubt that Tweek would be able to accomplish more with Banjo nowadays than Toriguri.
I love byleth and i don’t get why people call her/him still bad because byleth has many combo’s and a lot of stong killing options!! And i myself don’t think speed is the MOST important thing i mean it is important but you can see that even if byleth is slow she/he kan still be quite good!!❤❤ (also i love your video’s stay going man❤)
(Btw i am also a byleth player😎)
thanks for the comment!! yea i mean most top tiers are super quick so ig people make the assumption that slow characters must be bad, but tbh byleth isn’t even that slow and the sacrificed mobility for power is kind of worth it in the end
No, MKLeo is just that much better than everyone else, like Magnus Carlsen in Chess.
Tier lists are so biased. I feel characters are only as good as their players
yeah but nobody likes the second official tier list so it doesn't matter
Byleth looks good because MKLeo is just the best fundies player.
Great video man
How did u know my name is andrew 😂😂😂
i know all
You should make a vid about incins rise
Byleth was never a high tier... Came out a mid tier and that never changed
The difference is that people said he was Low Tier, Leo proved that to be incorrect.
No one was proved wrong, having results does not make your character better.
The fact that now people are back to consider Byleth mid tier, including MkLeo himself, really should make you think.
The only reason people are going back to consider Byleth mid tier is because the current top tiers like Steve and Sonic do well into Byleth. The meta shifted to something that didn’t favor Byleth.
Byleth absolutely was way too happy to rate Byleth as mid when at the time they were absolutely better than that. This community has an issue with admitting when they’re wrong
@@pickcollins9910 bro no offense but your comment is written extremely poorly and is hard to understand what you are trying to say.
if having results doesn’t make your character better, not having results does not make your character worse. Byleth only dropped down to mid tier because ultimate’s top threats right now are pretty bad matchups for them so it makes sense that we’re seeing them less, but when pitted against the entire cast equally, Byleth does beat out a majority.
Ultimate’s meta when Leo’s byleth was ruling the scene was a lot more diverse than it is now, so Leo had the chance to show the world that Byleth handles a lot of characters. We may be seeing them less often now thanks to sonic steve and g&w, but less results don’t mean Byleth isn’t good anymore/never was. If we had a healthier, more diverse meta then they’d be back in the high tiers and maybe Leo wouldn’t see them as mid anymore. it is what it is.
also this video was pretty much complete before the second tier list came out lol. would’ve loved to talk about this in the video but it was too late. good point either way, thanks for leaving ur thoughts :)
Great video :D
Leo proved everyone Byleth is better than mid
Also Leo: Byleth is mid
Just joking don't mind bro
I think Byleth is better than mid
this video came out a little late 😔
at least we know leo still loves byleth regardless of tier
Pleas keep up the good content
No hate or anything, but I still disagree because this feels like another case of a top player making getting good results with a non high/top tier char and then they automatically become really good and notice how when Leo stopped playing them, they fell back into mid tier like the time a mega man got 2nd at Evo in Smash 4 and he instantly became top tier.
This is a great video but sadly it's 6 month too late. Byleth era is finished it's Corrin time now!!!
lmaooo you’re completely right 😔 corrin smash lore video up soon?
@@aann That's a perfect time to farm Corrin content!!!
Bro my name is Andrew. I guess I have to sub lol
lmaooo it’s the rule dude welcome
Byleth was mid tier
Byleth is a top tier. No player, no matter how good, can completely and utterly dominate the meta and win the vast majority of the world's major tourneys for 1½ years with a character that isn't top tier.
The Smash community sucks and Ultimate is a dead game because of that.
Eres mexa verdad? Jaja
jajajaj asies
041020242107 i like how your edits arent very choppy