One of my jobs is searching out the best sounding audiophile Beatles vinyl pressings for Mr Port which I feature on my ‘MR Stickermania’ TH-cam Beatles channel. Frank
@@Stickermania2853 I have purchased, years ago, a Beatles HELP "Hot Stamper" from Mr. Port . And it is a later UK (stereo)Reissue '79/'80 (?) Harry Moss cut, (HTM handetched both sides): best sounding version of this album i have ever had ! 😎
the "correct way" for an album to sound convo is interesting, but moreover reminds me of In Utero and Albini vs. everyone mix-wise. There's a situation where I think it's way more interesting to hear what others heard rather than being worried about right or wrong. That said, I'm just as interested in what the artists/engineers/etc. thought it should sound like. But I'm with Tom that there's no wrong, just preferred.
Steve, great panel. Thanks for the discussion! Tom, nice to see you up there! Spot on as usual concerning sound. You are absolutely right about The Cars and Steely Dan best pressings 👍🏻 A few points if I may.. Would Mofi market DSD downloads? One thing to consider: What Mofi would be doing if they went that direction would not be handing over the actual 4XDSD file pre mastering. It would be the post AAA mastering through the Gain System. So the idea that they would be selling something that would be considered a flat digital transfer of the master would not occur. Personally, Im with Steve on this. I don't see it as an impossibility. Nor do I see it as threatening the physical product that they sell in SACD hybrid and vinyl form. However, I dont think it would be very successful. Acoustic Sounds tried this once before and it ran out of gas pretty much and they stopped. Just not sure there is a market for downloads. But they didnt know there was a market for One Steps either. And here we are. Right now though is the second hey day of vinyl. Just not sure it would work. What is the difference between Hi Rez downloads and what Mofi is doing? They are using analogue in the mastering chain through the Gain system. Now one may not like that they use 4XDSD as a transfer method but lets be clear that they are not simply mastering purely digital. The problem with Mofi is their mastering choices, not the transfering methodology. On reissues we want (Zeppelin, Sabbath..etc) Unfortunately I think one of the biggest hurdles (other than licensing) is thinking with modern equipment, mastering engineers that we can somehow replicate the sound of say an RL Led Zeppelin 2. Thats a difficult if not impossible task. Why? Different equipment, time has past since all the perfect wave came together to do such. Those folks are not around. Its just not going to occur. But we could get something close to the best pressings rather than what we get many times. Totally disagree with the idea that "artists know best" when it comes to how their records should sound. And my difference of opinion on this isnt even based upon the idea that every is subjective concerning what we like as far as sound quality. Remember at one time Jimmy Page and the band approved all the originals. Also, after 40 yrs and 600 blasting concerts, do you really want Jimmys ears on this? No. Sorry. No way do I want Brian May to make the final decision on Queen reissues. If he is so astute at knowing what a good record sounds like then why is that Queen boxset pretty much regarded as trash? Now I will agree that many times we "audiophile" to death rock records. Scooped mids are an absolute assault on the art of what is rock. Same with bloated bass. That, I will agree with. Great discussion guys!
When talking about the Warner Brothers “Green / Olive” pressings y’all omitted to mention Tim’s great video “Olives Please”. Very nice video about the subject.
Haha, I love how consistent Mazzy is with his criticism of the ridiculous UHQR boxes. I own two UHQRs and stopped buying them because those boxes are so obnoxiously pointless - I mean, the record jacket doesn’t even properly fit inside it so they have to put padding in there to keep it from jostling around. It’s a giant box that takes up so much shelf space for zero reason; it’s not like there’s a nice hardcover book in there with the album or something. Just a complete waste of materials, shelf space and money. Shelf space is at SUCH a premium for so many people including myself that it just makes me grumble to look at the ones I own. In fact, I had to take the actual albums out of the boxes and just put those on my record shelves, with the outer box just sitting in my attic collecting dust. It’s just frustrating because UHQRs are so incredibly high quality - they’re truly special releases - yet those boxes sort of ruin it. I just can’t accept spending $125+ on something where I’m going to keep and appreciate half of it, and the other half just gets tossed in a dark attic. All you need is the nice, glossy Stoughton gatefold, which they already come in! That is “premium” enough! You don’t need the superfluous extra packaging that adds zero extra value beyond jacking up the price. I don’t understand why Chad doesn’t at least offer the *option* of buying the album on its own at a lesser price, and then offer the “deluxe” premium box experience to customers who want that, for a higher price.
@@mazzysmusic Yeah I dislike MoFi’s boxes as well but for sort of a different reason… the One Step packaging is just plain weird, with an unnecessary outer box, a standard weight inner jacket with a tiny little thumbnail of the cover art and then the actual full sized album art is on a separate fold out poster thing… it’s just way over-engineered or over-thought or something. Just give us a Stoughton gatefold, y’know? That’s all we need! Michael Jackson’s iconic Thriller art would have been stunning on a thick ‘n glossy Stoughton jacket; it’s a shame.
@@EMP698 Ehh, I believe him when he said that he specifically wanted to go the extra mile and have the boxes reproduced because he remembered them so fondly from his childhood (I can’t remember which label’s boxes it specifically mimics off the top of my head)… problem is, most of us don’t have that nostalgia and certainly don’t want to take up 3x the shelf space and pay a premium for a truly useless custom box (which genuinely is very expensive to produce because he had to commission custom design, custom tooling and find a place that could do it well. The entire spine is solid wood for god’s sake).
Love the panel. Disagree about the Japanese pressings. Granted I have a few that are just “okay” I would say 95% of the other ones are phenomenal with almost a half “breath taking” and my gear is no slouch. Top of the line Rega gear with equally great Paradigm speakers plus great interconnects, power conditioner etc. etc. etc.
Mazzy, I just wanted to point out that the Analogue Production UHQR are being distributed. I was in a record shop in Vancouver and bought the two Steely Dan UHQRs. The owner told me the only reason they can get them is because they can't sell them at a fast enough pace on the web site. I even saw CSN MOFI one step on the wall. It's been a long time since I've seen an MOFI records in our local shops.
Gotta reject Mazzy's opening comment(s) re: newly announced premium "Rhino High Fidelity Series" reissue efforts, though he also acknowledged the positives too. IMO, kinda conflating "premium". A) AAA vinyl, cut by KG, w/ NEW liner notes, pressed at a select plant, in a g-fold jkt IS "premium" any way you look at it in 2023. B) Obviously, these audiophile reissue series, from every (100%) vinyl house, are literally years in the making and no less "complicated dances" with all concerned so kudos to Rhino for making the decision & investment back in COVID times to enter the specialized & small-market "audiophile vinyl" market! C) $39US + S&H is an admirable kick-off $ price. D) We want as many music firms in the audiophile vinyl / VC world as we can get folks! Moreover, EVERY entry to market attempt in the AAA vinyl world and w/ transparency should be congratulated. E) A great lucky draw for ME but Rhino's artist/title selection, Cars & Coltrane, hits a "HR" for ME w/ their initial title choice. F) For all herein, let's NOT conflate certain "premium" reissues like UHQR, MFSL One Step, Craft Small Batch, ERC's, with the likes of the great BN CV & TP series, Acoustic Sounds, AP's, OJC, Craft, Speakers Corner, Impulse, etc. reissue series. It's a SIGNIFICANT and fantastic differential boys!! Lest we forget the VERY FEW players in the AAA vinyl market just < a decade ago!! Or worse, those hype stickers claiming the "mastered from tapes...." to the new and/or experienced vinyl buyer population. Or worse still, purposely lying about their products. Breathe in & welcome these new AAA players!!
Quite a hot take!! It’s because US versions were more plentiful and easier to get that HOT STAMPER mark up. The Vertigo’s have always been the go to and highly sought out by collectors hence for him to obtain those he’d have to pay a hefty premium as well.
@@bigsweetc6 All I know is that I have the late 2010 Rhinos (Which I think were cut from Tape -- Sound outstanding anyway) and ONE OG Vertigo, Master of Reality. Even though its VG / VG+ at best, it absolutely smokes any other version I've heard. Such that I'm constantly looking for more UK or German Vertigo OG's. :)
@@JeffersonDD I have a German vertigo paranoid and it sounds awesome. I also have a few Japanese EAS Beatles Help and Beatles For Sale and unlike Mazzy says I like how they sound. I have the highly acclaimed UK pressing of Beatles For Sale as well and it doesn’t sound that much better than the Japanese one to my ears. Bottom line. It’s all preference despite what the hifi gurus say.
The first Cars album original sounds great, easy to find in good condition at nice prices. I have the Coltrane in the Atlantic Records Poetic Champions lp box Listening to Steve’s interview with Kevin Gray - I caved on the Coltrane and bought the new JC Rhino release
Wow! Tom is spot on with his Stravinsky analogy! I cannot stand the versions of The Firebird where Stravinsky is conductor. I much prefer Dorati’s version, and even Bernatein’s. Excellent example to prove a good point, Mr. Port!
Hi Steve, Great talk, l watch your team on line all the time, I would like to comment on your talk regarding Vinyl pressing from Japan as I have a huge collection around 2,000 LP's. all in EX condition from 50's 60's 70's and 80's, from Jazz to Pop/Rock, must say I think they are great sounding and at this moment have Dark Side Of The Moon playing ( stereo EMS-80324) outstanding sound. kind regards Brett from New Zealand, PS huge Beatles Fan.
Mazzy we have Music on Vinyl charging near $40 for a Digital to DMM LP so this Rhino seems reasonable to me. Also, Speakers Corner moved into this price range two years ago. The question is whether the condition of the master tape is pristine?
Mazzy, sympathize with us overseas...we have to buy one album and pay shipping and f... customs for a Cars reissue made by their own record label. This is a joke
22:10 Acoustic Sounds had a SuperHiRez component they shut down due to poor sales. It could have been a marketing issue, but I can't see MoFI launching a successful downloads business capable of competing with HDTracks
By the way, artists' "authority" can be pretty dicey. Brian May and Jimmy Page are 75 and 79 respectively and have played thousands of live concerts where the SPLs were deep into the ear damaging levels. One would expect them to make their recordings bright and compressed now. Only way they can even hear them
The Zep II that was overseen by Page in 2014 is neither bright nor compressed. It is mostly tonally correct and very dynamic and energetic. Pick one up, they are still cheap, and check for yourself.
@@scottwheeler2679 The only one we like to date, having played only a couple, is II, and the first album is definitely a dog, so stick with II. I forgot to mention that we give the new Page version out with every Hot Stamper II purchases so customers can do their own little shootouts.
@@the-skeptical-audiophile ...Led Zep I (first album) : i have a german reissue Alsdorf Pressing with UK (Strawberry) mastering , ( A2 x Strawberry / B3 x GB Strawberry ). One of the best versions i have ever had ;-)
@@lucullus6127That version is excellent. It does not win shootouts and I don't think we even buy them anymore, but they can sound very good nonetheless. They will beat 95% of what's out there, including all domestic pressings. Strawberry is often a very good cutting house. As far as we know, no one today can make records that sound as good as the better titles they have cut. A2/B2 and AD/B4 are also quite good. The only record in my personal collection that I brought with me to Georgia is my turquoise print cover of the album on the plum and orange label. Unsurprisingly, to me anyway, it does not sound very good. I keep it for the cover and the story behind it.
I love the Steven Wilson remix of Aqualung. My og sounds great, but well worn... I have the import ep of Tull's Solstice Bells, but I have to dig it out to see how it sounds before buying the Wilson Remix. I think it's a different song list, so I will probably get it anyway. I'm on a fixed income, so I buy cautiously.
The Kevin Gray Rhino Black Sabbath (Self Title) is amazing. It is basically just as good as the original 1970 pressing. I have em back to back. I can’t detect much different at all
Could the muffled sound that one hears while playing a record potentially be due to a combination of factors like their stereo, turntable, and needle? This could indeed be the case unless a significant number of individuals report the same issue with sound quality.
There is a third reason Mofi prefers DSD transfers. That being they can go track by track when necessary and correct the azimuth. Something that can't be done if cutting from an analog tape.
For me, Tom saying that he thinks the original black label Can't Buy A Thrill is significantly better than the UHQR (a comparison I have done side by side with notes) makes me question either his perspective or his system. Either way, that's one verifiable comparison that I am just baffled by.
It’s all preferential! It’s quite possible that you’re both correct. To his ears the original sounds better. To yours the UHQR does. Perhaps bias plays a part, or nostalgia, familiarity or intimacy with the record. Would your opinions change if you both listened blindly and didn’t know which one was playing?
$40 is too expensive for a 33rpm double-LP. I’m committed to not paying more than $25 maximum for a single-LP 33rpm. The Cars is available on SACD for $30, surely better SQ than any new vinyl remastering?
So many people thinking they know the inherent quality of cds and digital. The % of them whov've heard a cd played on something like the Ayon cd player or the Burmester player?.....ZERO %. There are no weak areas at all in sound quality if played back on equipment beyond their experience. You don't have to go up to the price point of my two examples to get sound quality that would give a multi thousand dollar turntable/cartridge combo trouble.
@@bigsweetc6 i got one for 220 $ ( VG, but plasy VG++) eB*y auction six month ago ! I also have a 1977 Piros (x @ GP PR) which does sound great. And, out of curiosity, i've purchased the 2014 Page remaster : i hate to admit it, but it does sound really good , the clarity and forward mastering takes away the sort of dark clouding that alway been on this recording, a great listen for sure. ( I've sold my UK Plum years ago, very "in your face", but tonally not really the best.)
Great panel Steve! I did not hear about the Rhino HiFi series so I just ordered the two items and only 15.99 shipping to eastern Canada. It might take a month but eventually I will get them! I have purchased DSD files from ProStudioMasters in the past but FLAC player changed their software and dropped DSD playback capability! Cheers.
Moreover. The comment about the Japanese preferring US pressings over their own Japanese pressings is Absolutely NOT TRUE! My son has lived in Sapporo Japan for 12 years as an interpreter (he is also a fellow audiophile) the Japanese buy US pressings almost for the novelty of it. Just as we in the US may like to have a Canadian press or different country “variant”. My son claims in his estimation that AT LEAST 80% of the Japanese that he is in association with prefer their Japanese pressings overwhelmingly over other pressings.
Japanese record EQ audio is different due to the nature of Japan's culture and society. It's rude to disturb your neighbors and if your stereo has a ton of bass for sure the next apt suite is going to feel it. The low end was diminished and the mids and highs are boosted on their pressings to take those factors into account.
This is probably true. A customer from Japan took issue with my constant harping on playing records good and loud and said that cannot be done in Japan in the apartments where most people live. He never liked what we sold him but never reordered. At moderate levels the sound difference does not justify the prices we charge.
The Cars s/t first pressing is fantastic. This announcement was a snore. I disagree with the comments regarding the Zeppelin Classic cut. They are AAA and on my system - the few I have; s/t, III, IV, Presence, SRTS - all sound pretty darn great. And I picked them up years ago at a very nice price. I do agree with 45rpm ruining the listening experience of an LP. Especially with Steely Dan - you want to kick back and drift. Get an old scratchy OG or even the SACD or just skip the release completely.
Nathan's point about Brian May is not necessarily a bad one, as Tom Port is suggesting, which would would call 'illicit appeal to authority' and yet, they are still expert witnesses and what they say has some weight no matter what. As much as author's of music might record their own versions of a great song (Stravinsky, Burt Bacharach, Otis Redding) may not be as good as other versions (Dionne Warwick and RESPECT by Aretha Franklin in the latter examples) but do express what the original authors want to convey just the same.
I think the point is that artists' opinions are not sacrosanct. It's ironic that no one bats an eye when artists are criticized for their composition, arrangements, production or performances. But in the world of audiophilia some folks consider "artists' intent" to be the word of god. IMO it is a reverse engineered rationalization for some audiophiles opinion that accuracy is everything in audio and anything else isn't "hifi." Because that leaves those same audiophiles having to defend accuracy when accuracy sounds like shit and can be fixed with added distortions and deviations. Why not do that? "Artists' intent has to be honored!"
@@scottwheeler2679 That is the point, so artists can be more accurate about what they are trying to say and do some times versus others, but audiophiles spend all this time and money (like the men in this video series, who love music and back it up financially and intellectually, as I do) want the version or even versions (and not just 5.1 or 12-track (DTS: X, Dolby Atmos remixes) be the best and fullest they can. In the Rock genre, the idea of 'mud' is correct because of the blues influence, recording techniques of the time and the genre itself was rebelling against the 'clarity' of other genres. The Rolling Stones EXILE ON MAIN STREET being the definitive example of a brilliant album that is not concerned with clarity, so no matte rho bad the sound might be, that is actually intended. Like the camera negative of a classic feature film, it should be what all the makers were trying to finally accomplish (producers, engineers and mastering people in music, directors, cinematographers and the like in film) so the tiger fidelity to capture all that at its most realistic. In both worlds, sometimes artists overdo rereleases and the 'accuracy' is a disaster or the opposite of the original intent. However, the bottom line is, what are these artists and creators achieve and how to best preserve and represent it all without getting stuck on the overgeneralizations you note. These 45-rpm double LP sets from Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity and like companies (including deluxe digital disc releases like Super Audio CD and Blu-ray Audio) should be the music equivalent of The Criterion Collection, and what companies like Arrow Video, Blue Underground, Severin, Synapse and the majors are doing with feature films and even great TV shows. However, some major feature films have had their remasters botched recently and it is as annoying and frustrating as what these guys are saying about disappointing audio releases.
@@nicholassheffo5723 There is no "correct" way to do it. Sound quality is purely subjective in nature and what we like is unimpeachable. If *you* want accurate sound even if that accurate sound is shit that is *your* prerogative. But if *I* want subjectively better sound based on my taste in sound quality that is *my* prerogative. There is no high ground here. No one's preferences or opinions or philosophy on sound quality is objectively more right than anyone else's. That is the very nature of subjectivity and preferences.
@@scottwheeler2679 Scott, nowhere in what I wrote is 'correct' or 'higher groiund' is even implied and the subjective judgment is obvious and accurate is what was intended in recording, no matter how you label its 'accuracy' in either a creative or documentary way. I want the sound that is the sound, that is archival and not about anyone's taste. The Smithsonian is among the many archives working tirelessly to save this. As for your music taste or anyone else's, that's a separate issue and you'll figure that out on your own.
@@nicholassheffo5723 your words " In the Rock genre, the idea of 'mud' is *correct* because of the blues influence, " " Like the camera negative of a classic feature film, it *should be* what all the makers were trying to finally accomplish" " However, *the bottom line* is, what are these artists and creators achieve and how to best preserve and represent it " "These 45-rpm double LP sets *should be* the music equivalent of The Criterion Collection," No, you didn't imply it. You flat out said it just using more words and examples. "correct" "should be" "should be" "the bottom line." Your words. The meaning is unambiguous.
I could be wrong...but I think Sterling was using Neumann VMS 80 lathes in the late 70s and early 80s which incorporated a 12 bit ADC/DAC for the preview. Which means The Cars Candy-O has a low res digital step in the mastering chain.
@@FleagleSangria A lot of audiophiles still don't know the difference. There is an entire "generation" of records, many of them now referred to as "OGs" and as such assumed to be the standard by which all reissues pale, that were cut on these Neumann lathes with the 12 bit digital preview in the mastering chain. Cutting lathes that have dominated mastering suites around the world since the late 70s/early 80s.
Sorry, but original UK Black Sabbath pressings are terrible?? That is some utter horse shit right there. They sound fantastic and are superior to the US pressings. And the original pressings were on Vertigo, not NEMS.
Analog all the way. Digital to me is very shallow. No depth. No mid-range or middle and honestly it just sounds like compressed computer music. I think all mo-fi is doing is pressing a CD into vinyl.
You are obviously not familiar with the process of how the albums are mastered and cut and are only afraid of the word digital. You should be listening, which many of you aren't. You're just an analog purist but have no idea as to why.
@@Darrin.Crawford I sound engineer I am not but I do know what I like and don’t like. I was 23 when cd’s hit the market and like a lot of people I jumped on board spent 300.00 on a brand new Sony single disc cd player and bought about a dozen cd’s of albums I already owned from the seventies. It didn’t take me long to realize how squashed the music sounded to me, how sharp and almost unnatural. Now 41 years later I own about 46 cd’s haven’t bought one since ‘85. In fact I’m not even sure where they are. Maybe in my attic being used as cosmetic mirrors for the spiders. Hope this helps
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Great stream, special thanks to Tom Port. Not preaching but participating and sharing.
One of my jobs is searching out the best sounding audiophile Beatles vinyl pressings for Mr Port which I feature on my ‘MR Stickermania’ TH-cam Beatles channel. Frank
@@Stickermania2853 I have purchased, years ago, a Beatles HELP "Hot Stamper" from Mr. Port . And it is a later UK (stereo)Reissue '79/'80 (?) Harry Moss cut, (HTM handetched both sides): best sounding version of this album i have ever had ! 😎
Really enjoying these forums. And shared info. Keep them coming.👏
Thank you.
the "correct way" for an album to sound convo is interesting, but moreover reminds me of In Utero and Albini vs. everyone mix-wise. There's a situation where I think it's way more interesting to hear what others heard rather than being worried about right or wrong. That said, I'm just as interested in what the artists/engineers/etc. thought it should sound like. But I'm with Tom that there's no wrong, just preferred.
Cool video as always. Mazzy; we’ve discussed this before, but AP did sell DSD downloads before.
Steve, great panel. Thanks for the discussion!
Tom, nice to see you up there! Spot on as usual concerning sound. You are absolutely right about The Cars and Steely Dan best pressings 👍🏻
A few points if I may..
Would Mofi market DSD downloads?
One thing to consider:
What Mofi would be doing if they went that direction would not be handing over the actual 4XDSD file pre mastering. It would be the post AAA mastering through the Gain System.
So the idea that they would be selling something that would be considered a flat digital transfer of the master would not occur.
Personally, Im with Steve on this. I don't see it as an impossibility. Nor do I see it as threatening the physical product that they sell in SACD hybrid and vinyl form.
However, I dont think it would be very successful.
Acoustic Sounds tried this once before and it ran out of gas pretty much and they stopped. Just not sure there is a market for downloads. But they didnt know there was a market for One Steps either. And here we are. Right now though is the second hey day of vinyl. Just not sure it would work.
What is the difference between Hi Rez downloads and what Mofi is doing?
They are using analogue in the mastering chain through the Gain system. Now one may not like that they use 4XDSD as a transfer method but lets be clear that they are not simply mastering purely digital. The problem with Mofi is their mastering choices, not the transfering methodology.
On reissues we want (Zeppelin, Sabbath..etc)
Unfortunately I think one of the biggest hurdles (other than licensing) is thinking with modern equipment, mastering engineers that we can somehow replicate the sound of say an RL Led Zeppelin 2. Thats a difficult if not impossible task.
Why?
Different equipment, time has past since all the perfect wave came together to do such. Those folks are not around. Its just not going to occur. But we could get something close to the best pressings rather than what we get many times.
Totally disagree with the idea that "artists know best" when it comes to how their records should sound. And my difference of opinion on this isnt even based upon the idea that every is subjective concerning what we like as far as sound quality.
Remember at one time Jimmy Page and the band approved all the originals. Also, after 40 yrs and 600 blasting concerts, do you really want Jimmys ears on this? No. Sorry. No way do I want Brian May to make the final decision on Queen reissues. If he is so astute at knowing what a good record sounds like then why is that Queen boxset pretty much regarded as trash?
Now I will agree that many times we "audiophile" to death rock records. Scooped mids are an absolute assault on the art of what is rock. Same with bloated bass. That, I will agree with.
Great discussion guys!
When talking about the Warner Brothers “Green / Olive” pressings y’all omitted to mention Tim’s great video “Olives Please”. Very nice video about the subject.
Didn’t want to toot my own horn……✌🏻
Great roundtable, thank you for making these (always learn something)!
You’re welcome. They are a lot of fun.
Black Sabbath's debut, sounds fantastic! Digitally sourced???
Label: Rhino Records (2) - RR1 1871, Warner Bros. Records - 1871
Format:
Vinyl, LP, Album, Reissue, Remastered, 180g, Gatefold 2016
Haha, I love how consistent Mazzy is with his criticism of the ridiculous UHQR boxes. I own two UHQRs and stopped buying them because those boxes are so obnoxiously pointless - I mean, the record jacket doesn’t even properly fit inside it so they have to put padding in there to keep it from jostling around. It’s a giant box that takes up so much shelf space for zero reason; it’s not like there’s a nice hardcover book in there with the album or something. Just a complete waste of materials, shelf space and money. Shelf space is at SUCH a premium for so many people including myself that it just makes me grumble to look at the ones I own. In fact, I had to take the actual albums out of the boxes and just put those on my record shelves, with the outer box just sitting in my attic collecting dust.
It’s just frustrating because UHQRs are so incredibly high quality - they’re truly special releases - yet those boxes sort of ruin it. I just can’t accept spending $125+ on something where I’m going to keep and appreciate half of it, and the other half just gets tossed in a dark attic. All you need is the nice, glossy Stoughton gatefold, which they already come in! That is “premium” enough! You don’t need the superfluous extra packaging that adds zero extra value beyond jacking up the price.
I don’t understand why Chad doesn’t at least offer the *option* of buying the album on its own at a lesser price, and then offer the “deluxe” premium box experience to customers who want that, for a higher price.
I’m also dislike the MoFi one step boxes so I’m not just picking in Analogue Productions. In fact I praise most of their other releases
@@mazzysmusic Yeah I dislike MoFi’s boxes as well but for sort of a different reason… the One Step packaging is just plain weird, with an unnecessary outer box, a standard weight inner jacket with a tiny little thumbnail of the cover art and then the actual full sized album art is on a separate fold out poster thing… it’s just way over-engineered or over-thought or something. Just give us a Stoughton gatefold, y’know? That’s all we need! Michael Jackson’s iconic Thriller art would have been stunning on a thick ‘n glossy Stoughton jacket; it’s a shame.
Chad's greedy
@@EMP698 Ehh, I believe him when he said that he specifically wanted to go the extra mile and have the boxes reproduced because he remembered them so fondly from his childhood (I can’t remember which label’s boxes it specifically mimics off the top of my head)… problem is, most of us don’t have that nostalgia and certainly don’t want to take up 3x the shelf space and pay a premium for a truly useless custom box (which genuinely is very expensive to produce because he had to commission custom design, custom tooling and find a place that could do it well. The entire spine is solid wood for god’s sake).
Great chat, guys. Enjoyed this. -- Mike
Thanks Mike.
Love the panel. Disagree about the Japanese pressings. Granted I have a few that are just “okay” I would say 95% of the other ones are phenomenal with almost a half “breath taking” and my gear is no slouch. Top of the line Rega gear with equally great Paradigm speakers plus great interconnects, power conditioner etc. etc. etc.
Mazzy, I just wanted to point out that the Analogue Production UHQR are being distributed. I was in a record shop in Vancouver and bought the two Steely Dan UHQRs. The owner told me the only reason they can get them is because they can't sell them at a fast enough pace on the web site. I even saw CSN MOFI one step on the wall. It's been a long time since I've seen an MOFI records in our local shops.
Hi Lawrence. Yes. You must have been at Beat Street records on Hastings. He has had them on the shelf for a while now.
The best one yet! Tom Port is a great addition.
Gotta reject Mazzy's opening comment(s) re: newly announced premium "Rhino High Fidelity Series" reissue efforts, though he also acknowledged the positives too. IMO, kinda conflating "premium".
A) AAA vinyl, cut by KG, w/ NEW liner notes, pressed at a select plant, in a g-fold jkt IS "premium" any way you look at it in 2023.
B) Obviously, these audiophile reissue series, from every (100%) vinyl house, are literally years in the making and no less "complicated dances" with all concerned so kudos to Rhino for making the decision & investment back in COVID times to enter the specialized & small-market "audiophile vinyl" market!
C) $39US + S&H is an admirable kick-off $ price.
D) We want as many music firms in the audiophile vinyl / VC world as we can get folks! Moreover, EVERY entry to market attempt in the AAA vinyl world and w/ transparency should be congratulated.
E) A great lucky draw for ME but Rhino's artist/title selection, Cars & Coltrane, hits a "HR" for ME w/ their initial title choice.
F) For all herein, let's NOT conflate certain "premium" reissues like UHQR, MFSL One Step, Craft Small Batch, ERC's, with the likes of the great BN CV & TP series, Acoustic Sounds, AP's, OJC, Craft, Speakers Corner, Impulse, etc. reissue series. It's a SIGNIFICANT and fantastic differential boys!!
Lest we forget the VERY FEW players in the AAA vinyl market just < a decade ago!! Or worse, those hype stickers claiming the "mastered from tapes...." to the new and/or experienced vinyl buyer population. Or worse still, purposely lying about their products.
Breathe in & welcome these new AAA players!!
Wow!! Did Tom Port just pop-poo the Vertigo UK Black Sabbath? For the US versions?!? damn!
Quite a hot take!! It’s because US versions were more plentiful and easier to get that HOT STAMPER mark up. The Vertigo’s have always been the go to and highly sought out by collectors hence for him to obtain those he’d have to pay a hefty premium as well.
@@bigsweetc6 All I know is that I have the late 2010 Rhinos (Which I think were cut from Tape -- Sound outstanding anyway) and ONE OG Vertigo, Master of Reality. Even though its VG / VG+ at best, it absolutely smokes any other version I've heard. Such that I'm constantly looking for more UK or German Vertigo OG's. :)
@@JeffersonDD I have a German vertigo paranoid and it sounds awesome. I also have a few Japanese EAS Beatles Help and Beatles For Sale and unlike Mazzy says I like how they sound. I have the highly acclaimed UK pressing of Beatles For Sale as well and it doesn’t sound that much better than the Japanese one to my ears. Bottom line. It’s all preference despite what the hifi gurus say.
@@bigsweetc6 couldn’t agree more :)
You can't paint Japanese pressings with a broad brush. Some suck some are Ok and some are phenomenal.
The first Cars album original sounds great, easy to find in good condition at nice prices.
I have the Coltrane in the Atlantic Records Poetic Champions lp box
Listening to Steve’s interview with Kevin Gray - I caved on the Coltrane and bought the new JC Rhino release
I'm costing you money lol. Love it.
One of my favorites. A lot of good insight on this one.
THANK YOU !!!! At last someone else other than Mike at the InGroove agrees that ERC are a rip-off. Thanks lads, really interesting video
Check out my ERC Doors shoutout.
th-cam.com/video/uxP_UWa8Lu0/w-d-xo.html
Love that shirt Steve!
Thanks so much.
Wow! Tom is spot on with his Stravinsky analogy! I cannot stand the versions of The Firebird where Stravinsky is conductor. I much prefer Dorati’s version, and even Bernatein’s. Excellent example to prove a good point, Mr. Port!
Hi Steve, Great talk, l watch your team on line all the time, I would like to comment on your talk regarding Vinyl pressing from Japan as I have a huge collection around 2,000 LP's. all in EX condition from 50's 60's 70's and 80's, from Jazz to Pop/Rock, must say I think they are great sounding and at this moment have Dark Side Of The Moon playing ( stereo EMS-80324) outstanding sound. kind regards Brett from New Zealand, PS huge Beatles Fan.
Thanks so much for watching Brett. Love The Beatles too.
Mazzy we have Music on Vinyl charging near $40 for a Digital to DMM LP so this Rhino seems reasonable to me. Also, Speakers Corner moved into this price range two years ago. The question is whether the condition of the master tape is pristine?
Sure David but MOV is a third party and has to license the music. Rhino is keeping it in house plus only selling direct so no wholesale
they also import from holland i believe. they’re not an american record label.
Mazzy, sympathize with us overseas...we have to buy one album and pay shipping and f... customs for a Cars reissue made by their own record label. This is a joke
The Rhino OBI looks similar to the VMP releases.
22:10 Acoustic Sounds had a SuperHiRez component they shut down due to poor sales. It could have been a marketing issue, but I can't see MoFI launching a successful downloads business capable of competing with HDTracks
By the way, artists' "authority" can be pretty dicey. Brian May and Jimmy Page are 75 and 79 respectively and have played thousands of live concerts where the SPLs were deep into the ear damaging levels. One would expect them to make their recordings bright and compressed now. Only way they can even hear them
The Zep II that was overseen by Page in 2014 is neither bright nor compressed. It is mostly tonally correct and very dynamic and energetic.
Pick one up, they are still cheap, and check for yourself.
@@the-skeptical-audiophile OK I'll give it a try. The CDs Page was involved in scared me away from any future Page supervised reissues.
@@scottwheeler2679 The only one we like to date, having played only a couple, is II, and the first album is definitely a dog, so stick with II.
I forgot to mention that we give the new Page version out with every Hot Stamper II purchases so customers can do their own little shootouts.
@@the-skeptical-audiophile ...Led Zep I (first album) : i have a german reissue Alsdorf Pressing with UK (Strawberry) mastering , ( A2 x Strawberry / B3 x GB Strawberry ). One of the best versions i have ever had ;-)
@@lucullus6127That version is excellent. It does not win shootouts and I don't think we even buy them anymore, but they can sound very good nonetheless. They will beat 95% of what's out there, including all domestic pressings.
Strawberry is often a very good cutting house. As far as we know, no one today can make records that sound as good as the better titles they have cut.
A2/B2 and AD/B4 are also quite good.
The only record in my personal collection that I brought with me to Georgia is my turquoise print cover of the album on the plum and orange label.
Unsurprisingly, to me anyway, it does not sound very good. I keep it for the cover and the story behind it.
I love the Steven Wilson remix of Aqualung. My og sounds great, but well worn... I have the import ep of Tull's Solstice Bells, but I have to dig it out to see how it sounds before buying the Wilson Remix. I think it's a different song list, so I will probably get it anyway. I'm on a fixed income, so I buy cautiously.
I like that motto "triple A from kevin gray " , can i use that?😊
“The Cars” wasn’t mastered by Roy Thomas Baker. It was produced by him. It was mastered and cut at Sterling Sound by George Marino.
Thank you.
The Kevin Gray Rhino Black Sabbath (Self Title) is amazing. It is basically just as good as the original 1970 pressing. I have em back to back. I can’t detect much different at all
Ron McMaster cut the self titled Sabbath in 2010 for Rhino.
@@stevewestman7774 correct. Sorry. I confused with paranoid Kevin Gray. This McMaster cut is amazing
Could the muffled sound that one hears while playing a record potentially be due to a combination of factors like their stereo, turntable, and needle? This could indeed be the case unless a significant number of individuals report the same issue with sound quality.
There is a third reason Mofi prefers DSD transfers. That being they can go track by track when necessary and correct the azimuth. Something that can't be done if cutting from an analog tape.
what are the links to these facebook groups you always mention? where nathan reviews and your other mofi groups?
Great selection of panelists. Good to have various options. 👍🏻
For me, Tom saying that he thinks the original black label Can't Buy A Thrill is significantly better than the UHQR (a comparison I have done side by side with notes) makes me question either his perspective or his system. Either way, that's one verifiable comparison that I am just baffled by.
Vested interest
It’s all preferential! It’s quite possible that you’re both correct. To his ears the original sounds better. To yours the UHQR does. Perhaps bias plays a part, or nostalgia, familiarity or intimacy with the record. Would your opinions change if you both listened blindly and didn’t know which one was playing?
@@bigsweetc6 likely not. The pressing of that album I spent the most on, the speakers corner, landed last in my shoot out.
The Cars first US pressing sounds absolutely amazing. Why ever would I buy the new one!
$40 is too expensive for a 33rpm double-LP. I’m committed to not paying more than $25 maximum for a single-LP 33rpm. The Cars is available on SACD for $30, surely better SQ than any new vinyl remastering?
So many people thinking they know the inherent quality of cds and digital. The % of them whov've heard a cd played on something like the Ayon cd player or the Burmester player?.....ZERO %. There are no weak areas at all in sound quality if played back on equipment beyond their experience. You don't have to go up to the price point of my two examples to get sound quality that would give a multi thousand dollar turntable/cartridge combo trouble.
I think the album with the least amount of dead wax is Bless Its Pointed Little Head.
Maz thinks we can get an RL Zep II for $150!? Those days are long gone.
Might be able to get a G- copy for that price!
@@bigsweetc6 try to get a RL-SS side A / LH-SS side B instead ;-) they do sound same !! ( check Discogs )
@@lucullus6127 I think those are catching on though and going up in price as well!
@@bigsweetc6 i got one for 220 $ ( VG, but plasy VG++) eB*y auction six month ago ! I also have a 1977 Piros (x @ GP PR) which does sound great. And, out of curiosity, i've purchased the 2014 Page remaster : i hate to admit it, but it does sound really good , the clarity and forward mastering takes away the sort of dark clouding that alway been on this recording, a great listen for sure. ( I've sold my UK Plum years ago, very "in your face", but tonally not really the best.)
@@lucullus6127 did your prefer the uk plum or US RL?
Great panel Steve! I did not hear about the Rhino HiFi series so I just ordered the two items and only 15.99 shipping to eastern Canada. It might take a month but eventually I will get them! I have purchased DSD files from ProStudioMasters in the past but FLAC player changed their software and dropped DSD playback capability! Cheers.
Tom Port is full of it....
Poor take on the MoFi Cars self-titled. It sounds fantastic. Not surprised to hear that from him though.
Moreover. The comment about the Japanese preferring US pressings over their own Japanese pressings is Absolutely NOT TRUE! My son has lived in Sapporo Japan for 12 years as an interpreter (he is also a fellow audiophile) the Japanese buy US pressings almost for the novelty of it. Just as we in the US may like to have a Canadian press or different country “variant”. My son claims in his estimation that AT LEAST 80% of the Japanese that he is in association with prefer their Japanese pressings overwhelmingly over other pressings.
Yes, that made me laugh as well.
Kevin gray being cloned haha.
Good question tho, who is the next Kevin gray?
You have several a bit younger guys on par with him; Ryan Smith, Jeff Powell, Chris Bellman
Another great chat guys. If you ever want to put these up on Vinyl Community Podcasts, let me know Steve! Have a great weekend ✌🏻
Japanese record EQ audio is different due to the nature of Japan's culture and society. It's rude to disturb your neighbors and if your stereo has a ton of bass for sure the next apt suite is going to feel it. The low end was diminished and the mids and highs are boosted on their pressings to take those factors into account.
This is probably true. A customer from Japan took issue with my constant harping on playing records good and loud and said that cannot be done in Japan in the apartments where most people live. He never liked what we sold him but never reordered. At moderate levels the sound difference does not justify the prices we charge.
Rhino......loved you since the 80's. Release better titles. Cars, Coltrane have been done.
The Cars s/t first pressing is fantastic. This announcement was a snore. I disagree with the comments regarding the Zeppelin Classic cut. They are AAA and on my system - the few I have; s/t, III, IV, Presence, SRTS - all sound pretty darn great. And I picked them up years ago at a very nice price. I do agree with 45rpm ruining the listening experience of an LP. Especially with Steely Dan - you want to kick back and drift. Get an old scratchy OG or even the SACD or just skip the release completely.
Nathan's point about Brian May is not necessarily a bad one, as Tom Port is suggesting, which would would call 'illicit appeal to authority' and yet, they are still expert witnesses and what they say has some weight no matter what. As much as author's of music might record their own versions of a great song (Stravinsky, Burt Bacharach, Otis Redding) may not be as good as other versions (Dionne Warwick and RESPECT by Aretha Franklin in the latter examples) but do express what the original authors want to convey just the same.
I think the point is that artists' opinions are not sacrosanct. It's ironic that no one bats an eye when artists are criticized for their composition, arrangements, production or performances. But in the world of audiophilia some folks consider "artists' intent" to be the word of god. IMO it is a reverse engineered rationalization for some audiophiles opinion that accuracy is everything in audio and anything else isn't "hifi." Because that leaves those same audiophiles having to defend accuracy when accuracy sounds like shit and can be fixed with added distortions and deviations. Why not do that? "Artists' intent has to be honored!"
@@scottwheeler2679 That is the point, so artists can be more accurate about what they are trying to say and do some times versus others, but audiophiles spend all this time and money (like the men in this video series, who love music and back it up financially and intellectually, as I do) want the version or even versions (and not just 5.1 or 12-track (DTS: X, Dolby Atmos remixes) be the best and fullest they can. In the Rock genre, the idea of 'mud' is correct because of the blues influence, recording techniques of the time and the genre itself was rebelling against the 'clarity' of other genres. The Rolling Stones EXILE ON MAIN STREET being the definitive example of a brilliant album that is not concerned with clarity, so no matte rho bad the sound might be, that is actually intended. Like the camera negative of a classic feature film, it should be what all the makers were trying to finally accomplish (producers, engineers and mastering people in music, directors, cinematographers and the like in film) so the tiger fidelity to capture all that at its most realistic. In both worlds, sometimes artists overdo rereleases and the 'accuracy' is a disaster or the opposite of the original intent. However, the bottom line is, what are these artists and creators achieve and how to best preserve and represent it all without getting stuck on the overgeneralizations you note. These 45-rpm double LP sets from Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity and like companies (including deluxe digital disc releases like Super Audio CD and Blu-ray Audio) should be the music equivalent of The Criterion Collection, and what companies like Arrow Video, Blue Underground, Severin, Synapse and the majors are doing with feature films and even great TV shows. However, some major feature films have had their remasters botched recently and it is as annoying and frustrating as what these guys are saying about disappointing audio releases.
@@nicholassheffo5723 There is no "correct" way to do it. Sound quality is purely subjective in nature and what we like is unimpeachable. If *you* want accurate sound even if that accurate sound is shit that is *your* prerogative. But if *I* want subjectively better sound based on my taste in sound quality that is *my* prerogative. There is no high ground here. No one's preferences or opinions or philosophy on sound quality is objectively more right than anyone else's. That is the very nature of subjectivity and preferences.
@@scottwheeler2679 Scott, nowhere in what I wrote is 'correct' or 'higher groiund' is even implied and the subjective judgment is obvious and accurate is what was intended in recording, no matter how you label its 'accuracy' in either a creative or documentary way. I want the sound that is the sound, that is archival and not about anyone's taste. The Smithsonian is among the many archives working tirelessly to save this. As for your music taste or anyone else's, that's a separate issue and you'll figure that out on your own.
@@nicholassheffo5723 your words " In the Rock genre, the idea of 'mud' is *correct* because of the blues influence, " " Like the camera negative of a classic feature film, it *should be* what all the makers were trying to finally accomplish" " However, *the bottom line* is, what are these artists and creators achieve and how to best preserve and represent it " "These 45-rpm double LP sets *should be* the music equivalent of The Criterion Collection," No, you didn't imply it. You flat out said it just using more words and examples. "correct" "should be" "should be" "the bottom line." Your words. The meaning is unambiguous.
The Cars S/T by MOFI was really disappointing, so I’m in to see if the OG or Nautilus can be beat.
I have MoFi candy o it sounds pretty good to to me
@@anthonyburke223 You really need to hear the OG, it blows the MoFi away.
Can’t buy a thrill has always been a $10-$20 record tbh
Sharon wants more money than Iommi. Iommi wants more money than Geezer. Ward can’t be bothered.
I don’t doubt that MoFi will entertain DSD downloads going forward.
Great idea to have Tom Port onboard.
@andys_music_den Tom catches alot of hell. But he is a wealth of knowledge.
@@FleagleSangria Tom gives a lot of hell too - that makes him interesting too.
I could be wrong...but I think Sterling was using Neumann VMS 80 lathes in the late 70s and early 80s which incorporated a 12 bit ADC/DAC for the preview. Which means The Cars Candy-O has a low res digital step in the mastering chain.
@Scott Wheeler The Cars were Mofi-gating before Mofi! ;)
Hey, we didnt know the difference then either.
@@FleagleSangria A lot of audiophiles still don't know the difference. There is an entire "generation" of records, many of them now referred to as "OGs" and as such assumed to be the standard by which all reissues pale, that were cut on these Neumann lathes with the 12 bit digital preview in the mastering chain. Cutting lathes that have dominated mastering suites around the world since the late 70s/early 80s.
@@scottwheeler2679 Yup. It all comes down to listening and comparing. As it always has.
Sorry, but original UK Black Sabbath pressings are terrible?? That is some utter horse shit right there. They sound fantastic and are superior to the US pressings. And the original pressings were on Vertigo, not NEMS.
Michael 45 never met a FREE Promo record he didn’t like or “WOW” and “Amazing” I stopped watching his “reviews” months ago. ZERO Credibility!
Which free promo records are you referring to?
@@bradleykay ALL OF THEM!!!!!
@@robertendsley8312 that’s not an answer. If you’re going to slander someone, back it up.
@@bradleykay sure it is. Anything where his review was “WOW” or “Amazing” Promo. ERC for example.
Further proof the first amendment does not come with a dental plan.
Analog all the way. Digital to me is very shallow. No depth. No mid-range or middle and honestly it just sounds like compressed computer music. I think all mo-fi is doing is pressing a CD into vinyl.
Thanks Tom. 👍
You are obviously not familiar with the process of how the albums are mastered and cut and are only afraid of the word digital. You should be listening, which many of you aren't. You're just an analog purist but have no idea as to why.
@@Darrin.Crawford I sound engineer I am not but I do know what I like and don’t like. I was 23 when cd’s hit the market and like a lot of people I jumped on board spent 300.00 on a brand new Sony single disc cd player and bought about a dozen cd’s of albums I already owned from the seventies. It didn’t take me long to realize how squashed the music sounded to me, how sharp and almost unnatural. Now 41 years later I own about 46 cd’s haven’t bought one since ‘85. In fact I’m not even sure where they are. Maybe in my attic being used as cosmetic mirrors for the spiders. Hope this helps