Realistic? Have you seen the art in newer editions? It's awful but seldom Realistic. You won't see good art like this now from the big guys. They'll find a way to call it offensive because it features attractive people with clear genders.
I do believe the materials suggests that the elves are not just travelling for 700 miles from point A to point B, but searching for a place that 'checks all of the boxes'. They also had to wait until they had support from the Immortal elf that was guiding them. At least, that was what our group had discussed many years ago. Maybe I'm just remembering it wrong. Either way. Cheers! :)
It seems clear to me that this was inspired by a real life group of people wandering for many years only settle a modest distance from where they started.
Thank you so much for these videos on Mystara. They're both inspirational for using the Mystara material but also for how to approach my own settings for the groups I'm in.
Regarding the dark skinned female on the cover - as a kid, I always assumed she was more dark DARK green, and therefore assumed she was either a) in some kind of skin pigment or paint or whatever for some ceremony, since she's sort of in that kind of pose or b) she was the elf equivalent of an albino, and perhaps viewed as special or destined or something. But it's completely possible that the green tint I saw to her coloration might've been an optical illusion given all of the OTHER green on the cover. It never occurred to me at the time that she might be drow, though I certainly see it now.
Trying to get an artist to create precisely what you want is difficult. Better to embrace the art and adjust the text attached to that which was created.
I've been binge-watching all of these. I never got to really play basic D&D, but damn if this doesn't make me want to look into it. Mystara/Known World was so detailed.
I love race as class - this shows how demihumans are not just humans with pointy ears or short and stocky. Also, it prevents the recent trend of thinking of them as inserts for real-life ethinic groups. I also use BECMI's optional rules that allow demihumans to progress to 36th level - it saves a lot of bookkepping when playing one of these characters.
Spending that much time obsessing over how long it would actually take to make the trip is peak dungeon mastering haha. I actually bought the drivethru reprint not long ago, I was inspired to do so because of your previous videos on the subject, it's my first gazeteer and this video is really helpful to help in the understanding of the tome, I suspect more will follow. Thanks a lot.
That is again one of those instances where different gazetteers differ... If Nithia was an ancient magical superpower, able to conquer the Northern Reaches, colonize Ierendi, etc, then surely they should have been able to just follow the clouds and realize that the rain is being 'stolen' by the elves, and then stomp them. There was also a mention of 'the philosophies that would eventually make an empire great were in place' with respect to Thyatis, in 800 BC, but the migration of the Thyatian tribes from Davania wouldn't happen until 600 BC in the Dawn of the Emperors. Just to add to that 700 year long migration.
@@johnbalk6091 did an entire video on that subject. Though didn't explain the glaring time table issue of them taking 700 years to cross a region the size of Europe
The elves taking 700 years to reach their new destination doesn't bother me so much. This game is all about story telling and one of the world's best stories is The Odyssey where we come in on the middle of Odysseus' journeys home, a trip not more than a month long which has taken almost 20 years when we first see the dude. All because of the god's interference and the lure of the eternal adventure. I could see similar things happen all those elves. And another idea, no doubt they all didn't show up at once but prob came in waves. The first few prob showed up maybe in the first 10-20 years. Those would be the scouts, the frontiersmen, the rangers and trailblazers trying to find a good route for a migration. As soon as they arrive, they are back on the trail, heading back to report what they saw. Also, there might be multiple groups traveling along multiple routes (like the Oregon Trail). So your group may be doing well but the group on the other side of the desert just ran into a war between the dwarves and goblins. They have to stop, so you do too in order to render aid and comfort if needed. Maybe their is a lost group out there, or a cursed group doomed to eternally wander looking for their home they will never find. Maybe a group stopped deciding the place they found was good enough for them. Hmm, I'm beginning to like these elves.
So, the shadow elves are some time away, but one thing I love about them is how their conflict with the elves of Alfheim is primarily political in nature, rather than being a "good vs evil" battle. The shadow elves aged far better than the drow imo.
To look at the travel time thing from a different view, obviously the writers were heavily influenced by the epic travels of elves in the First Age of Tolkien's Middle Earth.
I thought for a moment that you said that Áine would be "furious, but also cautious". 😄 Now I want to make a character with those traits. Anyway, lovely overview as usual! You always always inspire me to work on my RC campaign.
I agree about the great Elven Migration. I look at it as an allegory of the Israelites traveling in the wilderness for 40 years. That for reasons an entire generation of elves were supposed to be lost as they were purified of losing those elves before they find the promised land. Or if one doesn't like this, I'm sure there are lots of storytelling to explain this away (or come up with your own alternate timeline).
Outstanding video as always. I will watch/listen to it many times over. I enjoy them throughly. At the rate their run times keep increasing I’m expecting an hour and fifteen on the next one, and hoping for it too. About the migration. It does feel like a lost opportunity. Rather than the slowest march in history, a migration over time. That would have left small but budding communities which would have changed (at least slightly) slowly over time. Thanks again for what you do. Will you be making an Isle of Dread X1 review? Also, for a mechanics review video (because I know you like to take a break from Gaz sometimes) could you do a video about BECMI overland travel and how it’s supposed to work? Thanks again
Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure about what’s next. Got a few things up in the air at the moment but certainly considering diving into modules soon.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!😮😃😁 i have the art dnd books and some of the art is from these 'gazettes' but i never knew what they were from!!! now i know!!! they are extremely awesome sounding! they are dnd? not ad&d? and 1st ed. i think.🤔 i wonder if ppl have them for sale or if they are uploaded somewhere???!! 🙂 thank you again!!! looking forward to checking out ur other vids on these gazettes!!😊😎👏🙌🤘✌🤞👍🙏
The best part about the elves gazetteer is that it means the dwarves gazetteer is up next, and dwarves are my favorite! That said, this elf one was quite enjoyable. I usually don't like elves, but this one got my interest piqued. And the cover art is absolutely gorgeous (as always, but this one in particular really appeals to me). One thing I'm a little curious about as someone who has never played BECMI; I understand and appreciate race-as-class, and the idea of playing simply "an elf" rather than "an elf fighter" or "an elf thief". I also understand that the BECMI classes are much simpler, and you put a lot of the "flavor" of your class into it yourself (like how the simple fighter can represent any variety of martial-based character in a fantasy setting). I think that's cool. But listening to this gazetteer, and how different clans of elves feel like they play to different sort of characters, it makes me wonder if BECMI has a way to lean your elf one way or another into martial or magic aside from the optional rules in this book where a 10th level elf can choose to either invest their XP into being an Elf Lord for better attacks or an Elf Wizard for better magic. I looked over the elf entry in the Cyclopedia, and while I don't know the fine differences, it seems like an elf gets most of the benefits of being a fighter and a similar but reduced style of magic as the magic-user, to represent the idea of elves being skilled in both sword and spell. But I was wondering, what if I play an elf but I'm interested in primarily one over the other? Like say I identify my elf as being from the Red Arrow clan, who have peerless warriors. Is there a way I can specifically slant my elf more towards combat, or do I simply take what the elf class gives me and express my martial focus through my character's decisions and actions? I think they're both valid, and I figured it might be prudent to simply ask if there's something I'm missing or if I'm on the right track.
It’s a good question and probably a bit of a miss in the gazetteer, in terms of offering players clan specific development beyond skills. I imagine it might have been explored further if there wasn’t a 96 page limit. I think this might be an opportunity to develop something specific to your campaign. I wouldn’t make it too complicated though, such as Red Arrow clan members get +1 to attacks, or maybe another clan might cause victims of charm spells to get -1 to their saving throws. It doesn’t sound like much, but it can make a lot of difference to flavour, without getting out of control. Just my thoughts.
@@becmiberserker I suppose that's a fine answer. The advantage to simple games like BECMI and other varieties of old-school DnD is that it's so easy to add little features and bonuses to whatever you want and it won't really break the game in any fantastic way.
@@becmiberserker And I appreciate the update on the Rockhome video. I am very excited about it, but please feel free to take your time. I'd rather have a perfect video tomorrow than a rushed video today.
What if the '700 year journey' is more, flowery? Maybe they traveled for a while, set up shop, stayed a few years, were chased away, journeyed again, etc for 700 years. (I realize that sounds some `apologetics` rationalization junk lol)
Good solid video, nice breakdown and well presented. I echo teh sentiment of the Elves feeling different that the other races, and its a thing that I do find lacking a lot in modern games. I've never been a fan of the idea of demihumans being just like humans except for one specific little trait; Just like humans, but loves trees, or just like humans but loves rocks. I'm not entirely clued up on all the Gaz's, but if there's a Dwarf focused one, that's the one I'm really looking forward too. From the Old World to Markus Heitz, Dwarfs are a favourite of mine, and seeing how these releases present them has me excited. And slightly worried knowing that some of the Gaz's can flop hard... just lie to me if it's bad! Stay cool!
My opinion, for what its worth. With a wisdom of 9, your elvin warrior Aine wouldnt be a cautious type. just the opposite. A high Dex would make her quick to action and an even higher charisma would make her gragarious or diplomatic. When I create NPCs I consider their attribtes. A high intelligence means they are curious, cunning, quick to provide answers. Strength means, loud, boistrous. Dexterity implies quick to action and detail oriented, wisdom means prudent, reverent, thoughtful. Constutution means healthy, sturdy and athletic. Charisma can mean diplomatic, sympathetic, manipulative. Low values would be the antithesis of these qualities.
GAZ 5 made elves overpowered as the limit of them being fighter/magic-users in a world of single classes was their level limit. Still one of my favourites on par with GAZ 3, GAZ 6 and GAZ 8.
Dig the series, brother. Probably needed out there, but I'm pretty sure I practice what I preach: I do my adulting before my screwing off. I get my share of gamers on my couch, and while I can talk about the hobby with 'em, I always preach it need be in proper perspective m
Human: So... what's your class? Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling: My what?
Such a great book, I love the art style. Sadly we don't see art like this anymore.
This kind of art is something that I'd love to see more of in ttrpgs.
@raff3486 agreed! While I like much of the new art I don't need hyper realistic in every book.
Realistic? Have you seen the art in newer editions? It's awful but seldom Realistic. You won't see good art like this now from the big guys. They'll find a way to call it offensive because it features attractive people with clear genders.
I do believe the materials suggests that the elves are not just travelling for 700 miles from point A to point B, but searching for a place that 'checks all of the boxes'. They also had to wait until they had support from the Immortal elf that was guiding them. At least, that was what our group had discussed many years ago. Maybe I'm just remembering it wrong. Either way. Cheers! :)
It seems clear to me that this was inspired by a real life group of people wandering for many years only settle a modest distance from where they started.
agreed. he was confusing migration as a long term pattern with destination travel
Now I must find a good second-hand copy. The video on Glantri helped me pull the trigger on grabbing a good copy at a great price. 👍
Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you so much for these videos on Mystara. They're both inspirational for using the Mystara material but also for how to approach my own settings for the groups I'm in.
You are so welcome!
You alway get me thinking about what i want in my games.
Thanks for the content as always Boss
We appreciate you !
Regarding the dark skinned female on the cover - as a kid, I always assumed she was more dark DARK green, and therefore assumed she was either a) in some kind of skin pigment or paint or whatever for some ceremony, since she's sort of in that kind of pose or b) she was the elf equivalent of an albino, and perhaps viewed as special or destined or something. But it's completely possible that the green tint I saw to her coloration might've been an optical illusion given all of the OTHER green on the cover. It never occurred to me at the time that she might be drow, though I certainly see it now.
Trying to get an artist to create precisely what you want is difficult. Better to embrace the art and adjust the text attached to that which was created.
There's an impressive level of detail in these videos. What's more impressive is how interesting they are. Especially at just shy of an hour. Kudos.
Thank you.
Amazing video, Berserker. Truly you're the leading channel on BECMI and I'm glad I'm here to see it.
I've been binge-watching all of these. I never got to really play basic D&D, but damn if this doesn't make me want to look into it. Mystara/Known World was so detailed.
Yes indeed, and for such a small section of the world too.
Alfheim is my second favorite GAZ. Shadow Elves being the first. When you read the one then the other, Alfheim are jerks. But they're fantastic jerks.
Thank you so much for making this series. My campaign will likely be going to Alfheim in the near future and this refresher on GAZ5 is right on point!
You're very welcome!
I love race as class - this shows how demihumans are not just humans with pointy ears or short and stocky. Also, it prevents the recent trend of thinking of them as inserts for real-life ethinic groups. I also use BECMI's optional rules that allow demihumans to progress to 36th level - it saves a lot of bookkepping when playing one of these characters.
I like it to. I like it when mechanics supports lore leading to unique gameplay.
Sadly the industry seems to be moving towards all intelligent creatures being the same except physical appearance.
@pheralanpathfinder4897 all the more reason to play older editions
Spending that much time obsessing over how long it would actually take to make the trip is peak dungeon mastering haha. I actually bought the drivethru reprint not long ago, I was inspired to do so because of your previous videos on the subject, it's my first gazeteer and this video is really helpful to help in the understanding of the tome, I suspect more will follow. Thanks a lot.
As a DM, there are some things you just can’t let go! 🙂 Thanks for watching.
Thanks for a deep dive into a fascinating Gazatteer! 🧝🧝♀🌳🍃🏹⚔🙌
Glad you enjoyed it.
And yet another absolutely fantastic video. Keep it up, my friend.
Thank you for all the great content on this channel! Certainly including this video! I wish I could live forever in the summer of 1985 or 1986.😢
You and me both!
Those Caldwell covers are so evocative. Love it.
Hey, where did all the rain go?
-The Nithian Pharaoh
That is again one of those instances where different gazetteers differ... If Nithia was an ancient magical superpower, able to conquer the Northern Reaches, colonize Ierendi, etc, then surely they should have been able to just follow the clouds and realize that the rain is being 'stolen' by the elves, and then stomp them.
There was also a mention of 'the philosophies that would eventually make an empire great were in place' with respect to Thyatis, in 800 BC, but the migration of the Thyatian tribes from Davania wouldn't happen until 600 BC in the Dawn of the Emperors.
Just to add to that 700 year long migration.
@Mr_Welch I always get confused about the whole Elven migration, and who went where, and who's who now. Have you thought about tackling that topic?
@@johnbalk6091 did an entire video on that subject. Though didn't explain the glaring time table issue of them taking 700 years to cross a region the size of Europe
@@Mr_Welch Is it in the Alfheim video, or a separate one?
@@johnbalk6091 Separate one. Title is elven migrations
Excellent review, one of the very best rpg channels
Much appreciated.
Really thank you for this. Its always like getting a surprise gift whenever you put one of these out.
The elves taking 700 years to reach their new destination doesn't bother me so much. This game is all about story telling and one of the world's best stories is The Odyssey where we come in on the middle of Odysseus' journeys home, a trip not more than a month long which has taken almost 20 years when we first see the dude. All because of the god's interference and the lure of the eternal adventure.
I could see similar things happen all those elves. And another idea, no doubt they all didn't show up at once but prob came in waves. The first few prob showed up maybe in the first 10-20 years. Those would be the scouts, the frontiersmen, the rangers and trailblazers trying to find a good route for a migration. As soon as they arrive, they are back on the trail, heading back to report what they saw.
Also, there might be multiple groups traveling along multiple routes (like the Oregon Trail). So your group may be doing well but the group on the other side of the desert just ran into a war between the dwarves and goblins. They have to stop, so you do too in order to render aid and comfort if needed.
Maybe their is a lost group out there, or a cursed group doomed to eternally wander looking for their home they will never find. Maybe a group stopped deciding the place they found was good enough for them.
Hmm, I'm beginning to like these elves.
maaaan ... this is great stuff ... i hope you go all the way with all the gazeteers!
I will try! These take quite some time to produce.
@@becmiberserker if you try we will watch ... superb quality
So, the shadow elves are some time away, but one thing I love about them is how their conflict with the elves of Alfheim is primarily political in nature, rather than being a "good vs evil" battle. The shadow elves aged far better than the drow imo.
I think I agree with you.
Drow never made any sense. Living underground in the darkness would likely end with them pale and blind.
Your editing is impecable. MYSTARA OR BUST.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
To look at the travel time thing from a different view, obviously the writers were heavily influenced by the epic travels of elves in the First Age of Tolkien's Middle Earth.
Yeah, I guess the writers wanted to one up Tolkien's tarrying Teleri 😆
Very detailed information about the history of the elves. I really enjoy your videos! Keep it up !
Great review of the Alfheim gazetteer!!
I thought for a moment that you said that Áine would be "furious, but also cautious". 😄 Now I want to make a character with those traits.
Anyway, lovely overview as usual! You always always inspire me to work on my RC campaign.
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you!
I agree about the great Elven Migration. I look at it as an allegory of the Israelites traveling in the wilderness for 40 years. That for reasons an entire generation of elves were supposed to be lost as they were purified of losing those elves before they find the promised land. Or if one doesn't like this, I'm sure there are lots of storytelling to explain this away (or come up with your own alternate timeline).
I think the elves were riding giant banana snails. Lol. 127 yards a day is actually smoking fast if you're a snail, even a giant one. Lol
Wasn't that in an issue of Normalman in the early 1980s
Another amazing GAZ episode. Your content is awesome, my favorite RPG channel on TH-cam. Are you attending Essen Spiel by any chance?
Not this year. Never been, but next year looks like a possibility.
Outstanding video as always. I will watch/listen to it many times over. I enjoy them throughly. At the rate their run times keep increasing I’m expecting an hour and fifteen on the next one, and hoping for it too.
About the migration. It does feel like a lost opportunity. Rather than the slowest march in history, a migration over time. That would have left small but budding communities which would have changed (at least slightly) slowly over time.
Thanks again for what you do.
Will you be making an Isle of Dread X1 review?
Also, for a mechanics review video (because I know you like to take a break from Gaz sometimes) could you do a video about BECMI overland travel and how it’s supposed to work?
Thanks again
Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure about what’s next. Got a few things up in the air at the moment but certainly considering diving into modules soon.
King "Doriath" is one of the most blatant homages in the history of D&D.
Anyhow, brought an elf up to the last rank back then, appreciated the review.
brilliant
Thank you.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!😮😃😁 i have the art dnd books and some of the art is from these 'gazettes' but i never knew what they were from!!!
now i know!!! they are extremely awesome sounding! they are dnd? not ad&d? and 1st ed. i think.🤔
i wonder if ppl have them for sale or if they are uploaded somewhere???!! 🙂 thank you again!!! looking forward to checking out ur other vids on these gazettes!!😊😎👏🙌🤘✌🤞👍🙏
The best part about the elves gazetteer is that it means the dwarves gazetteer is up next, and dwarves are my favorite!
That said, this elf one was quite enjoyable. I usually don't like elves, but this one got my interest piqued. And the cover art is absolutely gorgeous (as always, but this one in particular really appeals to me).
One thing I'm a little curious about as someone who has never played BECMI; I understand and appreciate race-as-class, and the idea of playing simply "an elf" rather than "an elf fighter" or "an elf thief". I also understand that the BECMI classes are much simpler, and you put a lot of the "flavor" of your class into it yourself (like how the simple fighter can represent any variety of martial-based character in a fantasy setting). I think that's cool. But listening to this gazetteer, and how different clans of elves feel like they play to different sort of characters, it makes me wonder if BECMI has a way to lean your elf one way or another into martial or magic aside from the optional rules in this book where a 10th level elf can choose to either invest their XP into being an Elf Lord for better attacks or an Elf Wizard for better magic. I looked over the elf entry in the Cyclopedia, and while I don't know the fine differences, it seems like an elf gets most of the benefits of being a fighter and a similar but reduced style of magic as the magic-user, to represent the idea of elves being skilled in both sword and spell. But I was wondering, what if I play an elf but I'm interested in primarily one over the other? Like say I identify my elf as being from the Red Arrow clan, who have peerless warriors. Is there a way I can specifically slant my elf more towards combat, or do I simply take what the elf class gives me and express my martial focus through my character's decisions and actions? I think they're both valid, and I figured it might be prudent to simply ask if there's something I'm missing or if I'm on the right track.
It’s a good question and probably a bit of a miss in the gazetteer, in terms of offering players clan specific development beyond skills. I imagine it might have been explored further if there wasn’t a 96 page limit.
I think this might be an opportunity to develop something specific to your campaign. I wouldn’t make it too complicated though, such as Red Arrow clan members get +1 to attacks, or maybe another clan might cause victims of charm spells to get -1 to their saving throws. It doesn’t sound like much, but it can make a lot of difference to flavour, without getting out of control. Just my thoughts.
BTW, I hope to get the Rockhome video out before the end of the year. I have a bit of busy time coming up, hence the gap since Alfheim.
@@becmiberserker I suppose that's a fine answer. The advantage to simple games like BECMI and other varieties of old-school DnD is that it's so easy to add little features and bonuses to whatever you want and it won't really break the game in any fantastic way.
@@becmiberserker And I appreciate the update on the Rockhome video. I am very excited about it, but please feel free to take your time. I'd rather have a perfect video tomorrow than a rushed video today.
can't wait for the heldannic order review!😁😁😁
dwarves get to be clerics elves can be lords or wizards but halflings are stuck at 8... man halflings must live a long time and be really powerful.
Halflings get to be Druid types. More to come in Gaz8!
What if the '700 year journey' is more, flowery? Maybe they traveled for a while, set up shop, stayed a few years, were chased away, journeyed again, etc for 700 years.
(I realize that sounds some `apologetics` rationalization junk lol)
That's similar to the actual history of the Turkish people.
Good solid video, nice breakdown and well presented. I echo teh sentiment of the Elves feeling different that the other races, and its a thing that I do find lacking a lot in modern games. I've never been a fan of the idea of demihumans being just like humans except for one specific little trait; Just like humans, but loves trees, or just like humans but loves rocks. I'm not entirely clued up on all the Gaz's, but if there's a Dwarf focused one, that's the one I'm really looking forward too. From the Old World to Markus Heitz, Dwarfs are a favourite of mine, and seeing how these releases present them has me excited. And slightly worried knowing that some of the Gaz's can flop hard... just lie to me if it's bad!
Stay cool!
All I can tell you is it’s next. 🙂
@@becmiberserker Cool, two videos in two days. Good times. 😜
Ha!
>Dungeon Master: Some poor masochist
😂
Berserker: Rainbow travel might make one think of My Little Pony.
The Aesir: Are we a joke to you?
Also, fun fact: Canolbarth makes basically no sense as a person's name - it basically means central (Canolbarth Cymru being mid Wales).
So, maybe it’s Elvish for Medium? 🤔
@@becmiberserker closer to mid ;)
Mr Berserker, are you going to The Dragonmeet this year in London?😊
Actually, I am. Not running anything. Just soaking it in.
O face achieved. 😮
My opinion, for what its worth. With a wisdom of 9, your elvin warrior Aine wouldnt be a cautious type. just the opposite. A high Dex would make her quick to action and an even higher charisma would make her gragarious or diplomatic.
When I create NPCs I consider their attribtes. A high intelligence means they are curious, cunning, quick to provide answers. Strength means, loud, boistrous. Dexterity implies quick to action and detail oriented, wisdom means prudent, reverent, thoughtful. Constutution means healthy, sturdy and athletic. Charisma can mean diplomatic, sympathetic, manipulative. Low values would be the antithesis of these qualities.
GAZ 5 made elves overpowered as the limit of them being fighter/magic-users in a world of single classes was their level limit. Still one of my favourites on par with GAZ 3, GAZ 6 and GAZ 8.
Dig the series, brother. Probably needed out there, but I'm pretty sure I practice what I preach: I do my adulting before my screwing off.
I get my share of gamers on my couch, and while I can talk about the hobby with 'em, I always preach it need be in proper perspective m
Cool video, easy subscribe!
Thank you. I appreciate it.