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Let’s roll…a Fighter! Character generation and development in BECMI Dungeons and Dragons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- The second in my "Let's roll..." series, where we generate and develop each of the BECMI character classes through the ranks, demonstrating how they work, what abilities they gain, and when. I hope you enjoy the series.
Link to my BECMI Dungeons and Dragons playlist: • BECMI Dungeon and Dragons
Let’s Roll…a Cleric!: • Let’s roll…a Cleric! C...
Combat in BECMI: • Combat in BECMI Dungeo...
Weapon Mastery and Immortality - The Master Rules: • The Master Rules - Wea...
Character sheet front page can be found on Dragonfoot at the following link, credited to Jesse Walker: dragonsfoot.or...
Supplementary character specific pages are my own creation.
If you like my channel want to support me further, please consider buying me a coffee at: www.buymeacoff... Your support is greatly appreciated.
Berserker image: www.pngall.com... (used under Creative Commons)
Many thanks to ITS A TRAPP for cleaning up the Berserker image for me. It’s a lot cleaner and sharper now.
Contact:
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Enjoyable video! Looking forward to the next one.
Just one thing, and I'm sorry if I'm mistaken, but wouldn't the HP at level 36 be 125 based on the previous values? Or is there something I missed about your level 12 choices that reduced the fighters +2 per level down to +1?
You are correct! It is +2 per level so my poor maths has been exposed again! Do you know how many times I went over this and still missed it?? GAH!!!
Anyway, thanks for pointing out the error. I shall pin this post.
An issue with Fighter is that they are more stat dependent than any other class. BECMI groups have to work together during character to creation to make sure they have enough of them, even if their stats would lend themselves to other classes. In a BECMI game I'm playing now, I rolled a character with a higher Dex and Con and average or worse attributes in all other ways. Strength was only a 9. But the group already had a Thief and we needed more muscle.
But this is where I feel like BECMI character generation shines. I had to look at my rolls and think about what they told me about my character. I ended up making her the daughter of a warrior who was more athleticly built than powerfully built. She's a little undersized but her CON combined with a good HP roll tells me that she's tough, resilient, and determined. Underestimate her at your own risk. Her 14 DEX gives her a bonus to AC, so she's a decent tank in a BECMI group.
I always laugh when people call fighters boring. In my group, we never had multiple clerics, Wizard's or thieves, but usually had at least two fighters.
For sure. Fighters were the heart of every classic D&D system. That's why there were so many types of them. Fighters, dwarves, paladins, rangers, cavaliers, barbarians, etc. Elves were 1/2 fighters, clerics could fight in a pinch, and Halflings can have absurd strength scores so that even those poor little guys can act as Fighters (which seems cruel, but brings the point home.)
They're 5e players and fighter is literally pointless in that game (because they did such a garbage job on every single class that half of them are completly pointless compared to the others), or 3.5 players with Book of Nineswords (gigachads)
@@punishedwhispers1218meh. I don’t want to Stan for WotC, so I’m not going to claim that the 5e classes and subclasses are brilliantly balanced or anything, but I don’t understand the point of view that declares some classes “pointless.”
There’s not a lot of competitive tournament D&D. You don’t have to min/max the most effective builds in order to have fun at the table. If you’re in competition with the other players for cool moments, then you, them, and the DM are all approaching the game wrong.
@@NewnodrogbobSome classes are just worse than others. Take the warlock for example, when have you ever heard of a level 20 warlock? its always multiclassed with something like a paladin or rouge. And, as always, rangers are solidly meh.
@@chillyavian7718 I’m not big on the scene, so not knowing any lvl 20 warlocks isn’t a surprise.
FWIW, Most people don’t play a level 20 anything. Pretty consistently since the BECMI days, players have reported that the game is the most fun from levels 5-12.
Ah yes, the Smash. I recall the time when an avenger wielding two swords under a haste spell drank a potion of haste, and proceeded to make five smashes in one round the next fight... Good times. 😆
My memory from 1981 was that the Fighter was basic (pun intended). I only ever played low level BECMI so I missed out on the features you highlighted here: Weapon Mastery, Smash, multiple attacks, bonus damage when to-hit is 2. Interesting how much of the Fighters flavor is embedded in the tables of THACO, weapons mastery, saves, and discussion of the combat options - things that emerge in play. Your build really does show off the class - Well Done.
Thank you!
Fully agreed. I have not really appreciated the true smashing power of a high-level fighter until this video did the math.
My memory of playing higher-level fighters was that they wouldn't often use their impressive fighting skills much, since they were normally directing armies that serve them and their liege. Of course, they could stand in the middle of the battle-field directing things with little to fear from 0-level footmen, but still. Great overview of this core class, thanks!
One thing I quite like about the fighter in BECMI is that they have a lot of unique features that also have nothing to do with direct combat, like earning followers and fortresses or being able to claim sanctuaries at castles. Even though fighters are considered one of the strongest classes in the system I enjoy, Pathfinder 2, they have very little interesting mechanical interactions with the world around them besides smashing it over the head with weapon proficiency.
It boggles the mind of an inexperienced DM like me as to what an adventure would be like with 12th level characters, let alone 36th. I'm sure the scope of the game becomes quite large with domain play, and the wealth and power to go just about anywhere in the world. At least this video helped me come a little bit closer to realizing the power of a high-level fighter. Thanks for making it!
You’re welcome. Check out my BECMI adventure path video for some context with high level play.
@@becmiberserker Thanks for the recommendation.
My guy, I am new to your channel, and it’s a cool idea for a series to analyze the progression and balance of rpg classes. I could even see other creators doing this for other systems
But also… you are the first and only person I’ve heard pronounce BECMI, instead of saying it as an acronym, and it caught me off guard. Suppose it’s faster to say it that way, maybe you’re onto something
Really? I thought lots of people said it that way. Maybe it’s a British thing. 🙂
Thanks for the kind comments.
@@becmiberserkerYeah it probably is a regional thing.
I think soon everyone on the planet will call it "bekmi" and think it always was 😀
First character was a Fighter with a ... crossbow... if I'm remembering correctly. (It's been 40 years). Never made it past 1st level. Had a STR of 12 and in retrospect probably should have just rolled up a new character right after that one.
I like the idea of homebrewing the Avenger Subclass to make it into sort of a Warhammer Fantasy style Chaos Warlord, where the main thing i'd add is changing it to be allowed to have a Domain/Stronghold as a sort of base of operations, but make the demands from who he works for much more. Essentially his Villainous Stronghold would serve as a place to only really rest and recover in between traveling to raid and plunder. With evil Clerical spells to raise the dead, i can see someone almost taking a 36th level fighter as a sort of Lich King like character too.
Although the Avenger is called a Travelling Fighter, there’s no rule to say they can’t have a stronghold. You can build your own Skeletor if you want to!
If we have a skeletor we must have a heman
Fighter is my 3rd old-school class to go to (preceeded by Thieves and Halflings, though they are not particularly prefered one over the other.) The simplicity of them is such that the freedom of play is quite broad, allowing for alot of creativity. The Fighters I play tend to be more tactical than damage engines (tripping, grappling, distracting, etc,) which helps other characters, including other Fighters, better take advantage of their own abilities.
Teamwork makes the ... uh ... team ... work!
I'm loving this series; BECMI / Rules Cyclopedia might just be my favourite edition of D&D. Many people are under the impression that BECMI characters, especially fighters, are very simple and have few combat or customization options, but that is clearly not the case - especially at high levels. I'd like to see you cover Thieves in the next video of this series, but I'd enjoy seeing whichever class you cover next.
Magic Users next, then Thieves. Thanks for the kind comment!
I never actually played BECMI, but I am really enjoying your series. You have an excellent organizational and presentation style, revealing why this game - different and distinct from all other games named "D&D" could also be a fun variant.
Thank you for the kind comments. Glad to have interested you in a different edition of the game.
A great reminder of when Gaming was simpler thing and fun.
Thats the funny thing, isn't it? "Thou shalt have hirelings and build an empire in the service of your liege (says so in the rules)!" isn't exactly "simpler" 😂 (Maybe call it "A different flavor of complexity"? 😀 )
Love this for fighters! Cannot wait for the other classes you do! Super helpful!
Thank you!
Outstanding ty! I’m currently running a BECMI campaign for a fighter, gives me lots of ideas. Can’t wait for the next class!
I like how you can trade 2 INT, 2 WIS, or 2 STR for +1 to the one of these three most important to your class. No dumping Charisma, Dexterity, or Constitution! This is really good, though it's not something I think I'd ever do. I'd like to also be able to take a -1 to each of the two non-requisites to raise the prime requisite by +1, like if both of the other two were 1 point above the threshold for raising an adjustment anyway and your actual main was just barely below...
5:18 "A character does not get maximum hit points at first level." that is correct reading the basic set 1, players manual, however, the dungeon masters rulebook has it slightly differently on page 18. I will copy and paste.
Hit Points
A player who rolls a low number of hit points for a beginning character may ask “Can I roll again?” There are three possible answers. What- ever system you use, apply it to all the players fairly.
a. No - all characters must start with the hit points rolled.
b. If the result was 1 or 2, roll again. (You might choose not to apply this to magicusers or thieves, who would roll 1-2 more often than others, as they use ld4.)
c. Don’t roll - all characters start with maximum hit points for their class, plus Constitution bonus, if any. (A fighter or dwarf starts with 8, a thief and magicuser with 4, others with 6 hp.) Roll for hit points normally starting with 2nd level.
Thanks for the rule clarification.
Sounds in that case like the DM can rule that all characters start with max hit points, but it is not necessarily an automatic rule. Like many things in BECMI it depends on what the DM says.
Great addition to your BECMI 'school'. I've picked it up again after several decades for nostaligia's sake. I only had Basic and Expert way back then. I think the extra fighter abilities and the weapons mastery system is great. But the rules for training are very ambiguous. You are allowed to train every 3 levels - 3, 6, 9 etc... with a chance of failing. If you fail at, say, level 3 there's nothing in the rules to say you can't train again at level 3, 4 or 5. I interpreted the rules as all you need to do is find another trainer and spend more gold (It's up to the DM to make trainers common or rare). You seem to imply that you can only train once at level 3 and if that fails then you have to wait until level 6. Have I gotten it completely wrong? All advice appreciated.
Hi. Thanks for the comment. The Master Rules are ambiguous but, imo, heavily suggest that if you fail an attempt, you lose that chance at that level. The wording in the RC is more forgiving and suggests that if you have the cash you can keep making your attempts until the money runs out. I brought this up with Frank Mentzer in the BECMI FB Group and he replied with his usual “do what’s right for you and your group.” That’s the great thing about BECMI and older systems, there’s so little counter-dependency on things, so you can tweak the rules here and there without breaking anything. Good luck with your game!
Great video! BECMI had so many options.
I never had more than the BE-part of the BECMI-boxes, so I never knew these path-choices at higher levels introduced in later boxes existed I guess in a D&D 3e-and-onward-ontology, these could be called "prestige classes". This is quite interesting and makes me want to read the Rules Cyclopedia.
I did a video on it if you wanted to check that out first.
I see from the graphic at the beginning that you are saving the best for last.
Wow just started the video and this is a good roll. If one of my players got these stats I would have recommended either an Elf or a Halfling as they get two prime requisites so you could use the lowering and changing of stats better, but I get that you're making a fighter video. This is going to be quite the fighter.
Edit: upon thinking about it further I would have gone with Halfling you could have had a 18 in STR and DEX which would make a great Halfling.
Lots of options with those rolls. Just glad I had an opportunity to demonstrate the improvement of prime requisite.
What I appreciated most about BECMI (and miss in current editions) was how advanced classes were a reward for reaching Name Level. You didn't start as a Paladin, Anti-Paladin, Monk (Mystic), etc. Fleetwood the Fallen (if he were Lawful) could have gained enough renown to become Fleetwood the Redeemed Paladin. Advanced classes were gifts, and I think future editions forgot that (aside from 3.5).
Indeed, you started with very little of much and grew to become powerful. It was a journey and power had to be earned.
You built Lu Bu
Great Video!
You have a serious talent on narrating. Do you have acting training?
Thank you, it’s very nice of you to say. No, I have no training. Hopefully, Audible will come calling! 🙂
I've always loved Fighters. Sure, being good at fighting as a primary thing can sound flat, but its really not--you are as flexible as you want to be! you can branch out or focus in on specific weapons, do interesting maneuvers, punch wizards, and tank insane amounts of damage. What's not to love?
I hope you make a video about the skill system because there are aspects of it that confuse me.
Check out my Rules Cyclopedia video. I go into it there.
I’m familiar more with 1e, it’s interesting that the extra language is something you can get right off that bat instead of 1e which says these extra languages have to be learned in game
Have you considered (or maybe you already have and I've missed it) on converting AD&D 1E modules to BECMI? I accidentally picked up some AD&D stuff alongside the OSE books, and only have a vague idea of what to do to convert.
I’ve not delved into modules yet. I’ll get there one day. Comparing with AD&D is a great idea.
That is awesome, I am super-excited about BECMI, but would like to run the whole spectrum of 80's D&D if possible, and there are great modules on both sides.@@becmiberserker
One thing that concerns me is how you only get your second attack if a natural 2 hits. How often does that happen? And that number is so low it feels less like "giving you the edge in a tough fight" and more like "getting a fight you would have won over with faster".
Well, the fighter gets the first extra attack at lvl 12, at which point they have a base THAC0 of 12. But by then they're likely to have a strong, magical weapon, say +3. And 18 str or gauntlets of ogre power for another +3. And at least Expert weapon mastery, for another +4. So in effect, they will hit an AC of 0 on a roll of 2. AC 0 is a large black dragon with 10+3 HD - not exactly a pushover. To hazard a guess, you'd get to use it more fights than you don't, unless the DM goes out of their way to prevent it.
IIRC, HD 10+3 is average 47, right? If my level 12 Fighter has two attacks per round, Damage 1d8+6 (average 10), that dragon is in trouble. (Of course, I don't recall what the BECMI dragon could do, so maybe the Fighter is still an idiot for trying to melee it.)
@@PatricRogers Well, 48, but who's counting? 😃 Yes, the fighter would probably kill the dragon in three rounds. If the dragon is on the ground, it does a claw/claw/bite routine for 1d6+2/1d6+2/2d10+4 (26 average), with a THAC0 of 10. But worse, of course, is its breath. RC dragons deal breath damage equal to their current hit points, save vs. Breath Attack for half - lvl 12 fighters have a 9, so a little over 50% chance to take half damage.
The lvl 12 fighter would have 9d8+6 (46.5 average) hit points, plus nine times their con bonus. If the dragon gets to breathe, and then the fight devolves into ground melee, it could certainly go either way.
Very cool Video. Cant remember is there something like Weapon Groups in the Weapon Mastery Rules so you can get proficieny with a bunch of similar weapons?
Not officially, but nothing stopping you implementing it, as long as you understand you players will have mastery of more weapons.
@@becmiberserker i would probably add a price Tag. Have to figure it out. Maybe restricting the oppurtunity to achieve masterhood or simply say fighters got basic proficiency with all weapons but from there on have to Pay normaly .then they could achieve probably one more mastery.
I think Fighters having basic mastery of all weapons is sensible, especially when demihumans have it.
You could adjust Fleetwood the Fallen's armor class for what he could wear, as for level 1 perhaps he could have either a chainmail or a plate mail, and in the following levels let's say a late mail armor and forget about the possibility of having magical armor as that would be out of the scope of this video.
How do alignment languages make sense?
I have to agree. I don’t like them. It means you have a 33% chance to be able to communicate with anyone. In my campaigns, I don’t use them.
If you don't use it, then do characters get another language to replace it?
It is especially illogical when you consider a pc changing alignment.
@@wilm3864yup
On average, how often do people level up in your games?
I'm in 2 ad&d 2e games rn. In one I've taken one character from 5 to 8 over a year and half of weekly sessions.
BECMI's really cool for its long champaign mechanics, but it seems like most of the mechanics won't be used unless starting in that range.
I play weekly and after three sessions the party are almost level 2. I feel BECMI has the potential to support an epically long campaign, or short term play. The fact the mechanics are available in the ruleset as supplied lets you choose how to play it.
im actuality not quite sure how eurocentric the hospitality knight specific rule is. I have a hard time thinking of any pre-modern culture that doesnt put a premium on hospitality, especially for those of martial rank (the equivalent of a knightly rank), even if foreign. Medieval europe, scandinavia, medieval middle east, medieval india, medieval china, medieval japan, etc.
in fact it was common to refer to rough equivalents of those of knightly rank of other cultures as knights (indian knights, saracen knight, Japanese knight, etc)
You may be right. Maybe it’s _me_ who’s Eurocentric. 🤔
Great videa. BTW wehre did you get that character sheet. TYVM
The front of the sheet I just found online and I’ve created extra pages in that design. I’ve had a few people ask this, so I’ll make it more user friendly (it’s on PowerPoint atm) and pop into a shared folder when I get a bit of time.
@@becmiberserker tyvm
@@bentmetal666 Have looked a bit more into this. The character sheet front page can be found on Dragonfoot at the following link, credited to Jesse Walker: dragonsfoot.org/php4/archive.php?sectioninit=CD&fileid=193
Supplementary character specific pages are my own creation. I will make them available when I finish the series.
For me, fighters lost a lot of character and fun in later editions.
Being able to have weapon mastery AND become a paladin was so satisfying. They really did away with that and playing a martial class lost a lot of that feeling of rewarding progression in later editions. Becmi isn't perfect, but that is an aspect of it that I really missed, going forward through the later successive d&d editions.
"my fighter is now one of the strongest humans alive "
Me looking at my demi god with str of 27 and wizard i just so happend to have an 18 in str because i thought it was funny
How the times have changed
I may have misunderstood the rule, but it appears that Fleetwood the Fallen would not be able to cast clerical spells as an Avenger. The rule as presented indicated that his Wisdom must be higher than 13. With Wisdom of 13, he would not clear that threshold.
It's "13 or greater" for both Avenger and Paladin. RC p. 18.
@@EriktheRed2023 as I said: the rule - as presented …
@@platobach8309"13 or greater" includes 13.
@@EriktheRed2023 yup… I’m pretty clear on the concept of linear numbers. But when someone says “greater than 13”, it means something different than “13 or greater”. I was merely trying to point out a slight misstatement, without making a big deal of it - right up until you came along.
@@platobach8309Ah, you meant as presented in the video, rather than presented in the RC. Fair enough.
I think I may be misunderstanding the Attack Rolls Table, or your explanation of modified To Hit rolls, or both. According to your 36th level demonstration, Fleetwood would cause an extra 10 points of damage when hitting a monster with AC 0. However, I don't see anywhere in the RC rules around the Attack Rolls Table where a bonus To Hit equals a penalty in AC. In my understanding, an AC 0 is still 0, which means no matter what my bonus To Hit is, I don't get any extra damage. Please help me understand, because your demonstration makes that table make much more sense, as I have never used the Extra Damage rule because I never saw a point (how often does a high-level character attack a monster with AC 9?). Thank you in advance!
Hi. Happy to help with this. I just check the video and the 10 extra damage appears when attacking AC8. It’s 2 at AC0. Am I understanding your question correctly?
@@becmiberserker I guess my question is: Does a bonus to hit equate to a penalty to AC? So, my understanding is that it doesn't matter if I have +10 to hit, if a targets AC is not low enough to equal extra damage then I don't get extra damage on a hit. For example, a 22nd level fighter targeting AC 9 would need 0* to hit. If that fighter had a +10 to hit bonus, that doesn't mean the target is now AC 19 and the fighter has a 10* to hit. Or does it? That is my confusion.
@@WilliamFurbySo, a hit roll bonus would just move you along the hit roll chart by whatever that bonus is. I went to 25:37 in this video to back this up, so recommend you do the same and the below should make sense.
A 36th level Fighter has an unmodified THAC0 of 1 (meaning a 1 still hits if it’s not a natural 1 (stick with me…)). Fleetwood has a Str bonus of +3, so we adjust the THAC0 in his favour by 3, meaning his new THAC0 is 2(dagger), meaning he does 2 extra points of damage when hitting an opponent with an AC0. Otherwise, we just populate the rest of the chart based on the adjusted THAC0. Any figure with a dagger on it does that amount of extra damage when hitting the AC it’s under. Make sense?
@@becmiberserker Thank you, I appreciate your explanation. Have a Happy New Year!
The reason I would never play this game is because basic fundamentals of combat are locked behind being a fighter, which to be fair, is still better than them simply NOT EXISTING AT ALL IN 5E