Hearing “TERRAIN TERRAIN, PULL UP” and “TOO LOW, TERRAIN”:is terrifying enough when you’re not expecting it,but hearing “TOO LOW, GEAR” when you’re still climbing? I’m amazed the co-pilot was still functioning after that.
@@starcorpvncjhe pulled up really quickly, on the explanation it May seem as it was long but the action happend really quick thats not the issue here. The problem is failure to properly prevent this from happening in the first place by properly identifying the Mountain and when diverting knowing your lower then that Mountain you should either climb or vector to pass it safely
Air France has a serious problem with the training of its pilots (or maybe it is the pilots who have a serious problem). The Toronto accident, and the Rio-Paris accident both happened because of huge mistakes of beginner pilots. A few months ago in Paris two pilots put their plane in danger for no reason at all just by not knowing how to hold the horizon in manual flight. And now a few days ago on a Geneva-Paris flight, the two pilots are fighting each other in the cockpit. Seriously, how many more ridiculous incidents will it take for Air France to wake up these pilots? No other national airline makes such gross piloting errors. In any case I don't feel safe with them.
I'm having a very hard time understanding how an airline like Air France could have this many oversights and safety problems with a route in 2015. I mean, 15-17 safety reports on that route in a 2 year period? Geez, hopefully the issues were addressed.
Air France has been on my no fly list for years. The co-pilot is asked to make a turn but is unsure of where they are but nonetheless complies. He should have questioned the Captain. Next a terrain warning yet continue to fly on like it means nothing. Then a terrain warning along with pull up and the co-pilot finally puts 2 +2 together. Maybe. Slow and unprofessional in my book. Flying a passenger plane is serious business and if you are not 100% with it the whole flight. start to finish, then get out of the cockpit.
As an employee of GE Aviation, who works on the GE-90 engine regularly, I really appreciate this video! Those engines are absolute monsters! I dig all of your videos, but this one was a little more personal
GE makes the best engines in the world. Absolutely undisputed fact.. got a problem with them electrocuting elephants to death to prove how dangerous Westinghouse alternating current was vs. direct current, but as far as gas turbines go, they are the best. General Engines might be a better description of the company. Their appliances are about as good as P&W's engines. Still don't own a GE appliance
Not a pilot but I imagine if I heard "Too low, Terrain" I wouldn't give it another second. Disengage, max throttle, pull up. Those pilots took their sweet time assessing an obvious warning. Pitch up ask questions later
I'm not entirely sure how it happened but the way it was described by Mentour Pilot's video about this incident they did it instantly. Apparently they had done terrain escape maneuver training in the simulator a very short time before so they could simply act on instinct.
I totally agreed. All 3 crew should have been dismissed as inept. They knew a high volcano is in front. The radar shows them. There are multiple warning they ignored until the reserve pilot actually saw the trees from his side window. Absolute incompetence.
Not a pilot, either, but careful with over-reacting. I imagine that max throttle up (which is probably what I would have done too) might stall the engine out, then you would have REAL problems...
@@starcorpvncj You and OP don't understand enough about this incident to be commenting because they did pull up immediately and applied full throttle half a second later. The GPWS sounded terrain pull up for 8 seconds because thats how long the event lasted. It keeps sounding until you clear the terrain not when you respond. The trees were spotted while in the terrain escape maneuver. Second they did not know the volcano was there, they thought they were south and east of the volcano not north and west of it. The radar did not actually show the volcano because as explained in the video they did not switch to terrain mode long enough for the screen to update. Instead they had a blank terrain screen because it takes 8 seconds to fully update and they only waited 6 seconds on terrain mode. So when they proceed to make a right turn and suddenly where getting terrain warnings they couldn't make sense of how the was possible a right turn should be taking them away from terrain. Thinking this was possibly mt cameroon the started to turn harder still thinking they are south of the mountain and that getting the nose headed east will resolve the caution. Remember it takes 8 seconds for a full radar sweep and so the screen only refreshes every 8 seconds. This plust the startle response of the situation mean by the time they have gotten around to assessing the terrain screen the turn has made the situation worse and instead of a terrain ahead warning they are now within 30 seconds of a collision triggering the GPWS "Pull up" command. This is what saved the plane from certain death because the pilots immediately executed the climb as they were trained to. Ignoring being in that situation in the first place they did everything they should and they did it faster than average upon review. Meaning that if they did anything wrong it was only to do with getting in that situation at all. If you did research on that you would find that bad aeronautical chart design, and poor threat evaluation by the company of the route lead to the confusion and miscalculated position of the plane. Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions and then asserting "Absolute incompetence." based on those false conclusions. If you can't be bothered to do a little fact checking and make an unbiased value claim when it doesn't matter since your view has no bearing on what happens to them. How can anyone ever trust you to make such decisions and go the extra mile to get it right when it does matter. How can you even trust yourself to make decisions for yourself, if your so willing to make false claims and accusations. On top of all that you don't fire people for mistakes, you fire people who show that they have had ample opportunity to both learn and create good habits and still they fail to do so. Meaning they will never learn from mistakes or that the mistake went against what they were trained to do. At no point did the pilots deviate from their training and at no point in their carriers did the pilots show signs of problematic habits or training outcomes. I hope you take this as a learning opportunity for yourself to better your habits and how you assess and gather information so when you have to make decisions big or small that make affect someone else's life you can make the right one.
I wonder how the aircraft would have performed in that steep climb if it had 230 passengers and bags instead of 23! Would be interesting to know by what margin they crossed the highest point of the mountain. An empty 777 can climb like a rocket. But a fully loaded one, no so much.
It is a nice change to find out no one died during this flight! So many times the ending is a complete loss of life. Nice way to start a Monday morning! Cheers to all!
@Moon Cricket what, HILARIOUS?! Are you crazy ? I mean, this joke is not even funny, you basically wished a death of more than 40 people. I hope next time you will think before saying a stupid joke
@Joe Ropaio It makes a huge difference and it may have saved their life. You sometimes see very fast and sharp take off of commercial airplanes. It's because they're empty of passengers. (and yes, of cargo)
@Joe Ropaio Boeings have a high wing loading if they are fully loaded. This helps in terms of efficiency, but it don't help if you want to climb fast. Fully loaded 777-300ERs even have to burn some fuel first before they can reach the full cruising altitude, since the coffin corner prevents them from reaching cruising altitude shortly after take off
Apparently luck had more to do with saving this aircraft than advanced technology. Their general awareness seemed poor, as did their responses to terrain indications and warnings. It’s hard to believe that there isn’t a display which represents a 3D perspective of the plane’s location relative to the surrounding topography. There are quite a few incidents that I can think of where such a display could have averted an impending catastrophe.
Its weird how you can buy a Cessna 172 with that Synthetic Vision technology but not a 777. I guess thats the difference between private and commercial though. You'd think it would be a standard option by now.
The briefly mentioned wrong scaling of Malabo airport on the route map deserves more attention. You can find it online - it’s definitely super confusing to look at for a lay person; surely wasn’t helpful for the pilots of this flight. This poorly scaled map became another major distraction in an already problematic flight. It has the Malabo airport area zoomed in in a separate box within the map, in order to shrink the distance between mainland and Malabo and make Malabo fit on the map. Kind of like what US maps do to Hawaii and Alaska. Because of the weird scaling and the “map within the map” situation, the crucial position of Mount Cameroon was distorted and the map was almost useless during this flight’s problematic climb pattern and the pilots’ focus on avoiding adverse weather. Actually not only useless, but additionally confusing. And 15 flight reports for one route in 2 years time? C’mon AF, get it together. The slices of the Swiss cheese were all aligned for this flight, but at the very last moment one slice was replaced by a different one and the disaster was averted. On a different note: the was a Fincomm flight operated by ATR72 in the early 2000s, that I believe had four go-arounds on landing due to unstable approaches, the pilots got preoccupied with landing at any cost and with every stressful missed approach they were making additional mistakes resulting in yet another go-around. They landed on their 5th attempt. I can’t seem to find any traces of this incident anymore, but it definitely happened and I even read the report that I can’t seem to mysteriously find online anymore. Anyone knows where to find the report or remembers this flight? I’d love FC to cover this incident🙏🏼
The map was actually an instrument approach plate, which should not have been used for the briefing & enroute tracking. Don't know about the Finnair flight, but there was a JetAirways Flight 555 that had 6 missed approaches, not enough fuel to reach an alternate, weather not improving, no other option… and finally landed on the 7th try, with fumes remaining in the tanks. Check out @Mentour Pilot channel… m.th-cam.com/video/o-IuOnDBoGA/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. In fact, I watched it just yesterday! 🤣🤣 Petter is really good and professional in the way he presents the facts. It is always a pleasure to listen to him. And it is always a pleasure watching TFC. Professionalism². ❤️
My face the entire time all the bells & whistles started going off in the cockpit:🤯😳😯 See this is another reason I don't like flying at night. So glad the pilots listened to the plane & was able to skirt a collision! Another outstanding, edge of your seat video Mr/Mrs. Flight Channel Person!!👌
As a passenger I love flying at night, I lean against the window and watch the various cities and their beautiful lights go by… It’s like fling among the ✨!
Forget the engines, if any debt is owed it is to Honeywell and in particular to C Donald Bateman who pioneered the Ground Proximity Warning System. Don passed away at 91 on May 21, 2023 but this system has saved countless lives. RIP
Seems like they took a while before responding to the terrain warnings, especially with that big red splotch right in front of their aircraft on their navigation instruments. What were they thinking?
@@davesmith5656 google=> On dirait qu'ils ont mis du temps avant de répondre aux avertissements de terrain. surtout avec cette tache rouge juste devant leurs avions sur leurs instruments de navigation. A quoi pensaient-ils?
Moreover, when you fly in the region, Mount Cameroon really sticks out, litterally. Its pretty singular. Even when going to Yaounde, Libreville or even Brazaville southbound, you always have the thing at least somewhere in the back of your mind, at night even more so (yes, weather or not, the ground is very dark over there). I get the mental load comming from their concerns with weather, poor ATC and nav, etc. etc. ... up to some point. Drops in awareness of this magnitude should start to be investigated more thoroughly, IMHO.
Man I just cannot begin to IMAGINE how jet airliners back in the 50s could even fly without the ample amount of safety technology that we have in modern planes today. If it wasn't for the GPSW and radio altimeter during flights with low visibility, this would've been a certain massive plane crash. Technology is so crucial man, saved many lives that day (and everyday)
@@captainmorrow"and the copilot" plus they responded 8 seconds after the EGPWS sounded on the second turn. The mistake regarding the fact that they positioned the mountain north rather then north east was because of the layout of the map region which could easily cause confusion 🤦♂️
WTF?!? After seeing several other Air France disasters on this channel, you have to wonder about their Pilot Training. So it was the Captain's idea to split the screens between terrain mode and weather mode, then he proceeds to set them both to weather mode. C'mon man!!
Yeah the pilots screwed up but it was refreshing to see them take the terrain warning seriously and react as quickly as they could. Despite training so many times we see pilots react too late or ignore the warning all together. Again I know the pilots should never have let it come to that but I just want to give them credit for the recovery. The 777 is a damn fine very safe plane.
Didn't you watch the video? They didn't react strongly at all. It wasn't until the reserve pilot actually saw trees out of his side window that the co-pilot actually finally reacted. So what was the captain doing I wonder?
They got a terrain warning after initiating a turn to the right and then, in response, turned even further in the direction that caused the terrain warning in the first instance. Generally, if a pilot doesn't know where they are and heading in a particular direction causes a terrain warning, they should probably reverse their turn so they are moving away from the climbing terrain. Some questionable decision-making here...
There was a chain of errors, including to not pull up at first when warned to, but they eventually responded to the terrain ahead warning correctly. I wonder what is Air France training and official procedure to follow when there's a "pull up" warning...
The warning sounded many times before they took any action. In af447 the stall warning sounded 58 times without pilots understood anything. Now we have 3 cases where FO simply froze goving the wrong inputs to the flight control system.
@@herceg6772 effectively, and without visual situational awareness, i would have expect the pilot flying to disconnect autopilot, put in maximum thrust (there's a lag) and then pull up at the limit of the available envelope at least until the alarm stop or the pilot non-flying have full situational awareness, then do a situational assessment. Not turn blindly using the automation. This could have killed them all.
The captain insisting they stop climbing at 11000ft (Mt Cameroon tops at over 13000ft) still worries me. They were confused about the location ot the thing before, did he at that point know where the summit was ?
oh come on.....those "pull up" warnings are only for sissies......no one pays attention to those...its like when the fire alarms go off in buildings and everyone just sits there and looks at each other and then goes back to work....until the REAL emergency happens....you know, like smoke or fire consumes them or in this case, the plane crashed into a mountain or to be more correct...a volcano... : D
Yes, AF being AF : brutally honest about its mistakes and communicating about them so they are not repeated, not hiding stuff, unlike most other airlines.
Dont include all the airline , ive been mostly flying air france for most of my life and never experienced any problems. And there is only 6 videos of air france in this channel
The pilots did not simultaneously initiate disconnect of autothrottles in conjunction with autopilot disconnect to control the energy of their bird as they increased alpha, rather the automation initiated that disconnect configuration. One might want to go manual for TO/GO power asap upon the first GWPS alert, particularly with their low altitude and lack of positional awareness.
@@johng669 ...If you _know_ there's a huge 13,500 foot freaking mountain out there in the dark, and you start getting terrain warnings, just climb to 15,000 feet. It might be a false alarm? But if you've accidentally found aforesaid huge freaking mountain in the dark, you don't want to hit it? Assume the worst case scenario for safety reasons, when overreacting is incredibly safer than underreacting.
Here's a question: Depending on flight speed (yes they are not at landing speed), would minor flaps (5%) be able to withstand and yet add to the climb rate/angle?
@@wannamontana4130 if a plane is maintaining altitude while “clean” (retracted flaps/slats & retracted landing gear), and where the planes needs to climb rapidly, there’s no advantage to pushing out flaps. Rather, the pilot would increase engines thrust and pull back on the yoke using the horizontal elevators to pitch the nose up.
Shouldn't they have immediately initiated a terrain avoidance maneuver? I thought once you get those terrain ahead warnings you're supposed to go maximum thrust and pull up as much as possible without stalling until the terrain is cleared?
It's hard to believe this could happen with such a small flight path. The fears pilots must have, from a warning saying, "Terrian Pull-up. Staying calm, and reacting quickly, seems to always end well. I've watched countless "Flight videos with real audio, and the pilots that remain calm and focused in bad situations impress me. When some pilots panic and don't listen to one another, both take control of the situation, and it goes badly. For pilots, every second counts when facing bad situations. I'm happy about this flight making it to its destination safely. XO
Rewatch the video and watch mentour pilot documentary on the incident. The escape maneouver was executed less then 20 seconds after the first EGPWS call and 8 seconds after the EGPWS call after the second turn. These were excellent and aware pilots besides the fact they thought the mountain was north of them rather then north east. Which was caused by the layout of the Map chart of the region.
That is the first time I have ever heard of a case where the EGPWS/GPWS actually saved anyone from impacting terrain! I’m glad to hear that it does sometimes work. I presume there is no real difference between GPWS and EGPWS and that one is just newer and more efficient? I’ve been conditioned to think of the “whoop whoop pull up!” sound as a death knell , it makes my heart beat faster and I’m full of dread waiting for the crash sound and the words “everyone was killed” to come on the screen. These guys were lucky and live to see another day. Video was excellent - this channel is the gold standard in aviation mishap presentations.
There are a couple of examples where the GPWS has sounded but the aircrew didn't act accordingly and crashed. When investigators crunched the numbers, had the aircrew immediately floored the gas and grabbed some Alpha, they would have cleared the terrain with no issues.
GPWS only looks down - if a mountain is steep it can be too late to pull up. EGPWS has a digital map and knows where the aircraft is, and can warn the pilots before it gets dangerous.
Here in the U.S. I'm concerned about the current situation with over-worked pilots due to the pilot shortage, plus all the flight cancelations leading to increased pressure. I hope it gets resolved soon...
I have said the same; I am raying for people's safety. In addition to the pilot shortage, I worry, in terms of maintenance, that potentially corners are being cut due to supply chain issues.
Same here in south east asia.. pilots shortage, planes many under maintenance and overbooking/ delayed flights issue.. I hope it will be resolved soon.
These concerns are exactly why when I fly out of DIA (Denver) anywhere to the west (LA, SEATTLE, San Fransisco etc,) I never take a red-eye in the middle of the night. I’ll leave a day earlier and spend a night in the hotel before the meeting I have the next day. Plus, I like the window seat to watch what’s below us, and I LOVE drinking the local brews during dinner in a different area than I live in. Ok, honestly, I tell my company I’m more comfortable flying when the pilots can actually see where the Rocky Mountains are so I can spend the night in cool places on the west coast. Don’t tell my bosses that please.
Wow 😮. One thing after another with AirFrance. That Rio-Paris tragedy could have been easily avoided. All pilots know when the plane is about to stall, you put the nose down. For some reason, the FO kept pulling the nose up which kept IAS below stall putting the ac into a flat fall. Sadly, when the PIC awoke and came into the cockpit, he realized too late the FO was pulling up on the control stick. It just blows my mind he was doing that. RIP to all victims of that flight.
1. This highlights the value of commercial airliners with good climb performance and high thrust to weight ratios (for an airliner; I'm not comparing them to an F-22). The 777 can climb 1,500 feet per minute on one engine! The 757 is great for "hot and high" airports and short runways. 2. I am disturbed by the lack of familiarity of this crew with the region in which they are flying. They had no clue where the volcano was; they had no cue what kind of terrain was between the two airports. Wanting to avoid heavy weather is reasonable, but with a mountain to your north, why not turn 60-80 degrees to the south immediately after take-off, then after skirting the weather turn to port to line up with the airport? Air France's management is to blame, but the pilots' poor navigation is unacceptable.
Utterly amazing! A few mental errors and poor judgement narrowly averted. So glad there was no crash, but boy did those pilots and passengers luck out with quick response when they finally realized they were all in peril. Amazing. And another story, close call this time, as to why I don't want to fly at night.
I don't get it - the mountain was about 45 miles from the departing airfield, likely visible on a clear day. About the same distance as Sea-Tac to Mt Rainier. How can that not be a factor? Air France is scaring me!
Amazing... and to see that between 2015 and 2017 there were FIFTEEN MORE such instances!! 🤦🏻♂Talk about luck being on your side.😳 Excellent recounting as usual, TFC.👏🏻
@@RPG-oh1yf mentor pilot goes into more detail. Essentially they were at that level to start approach which should have been well away from high terrain
I have watched enough of that kind of accident/almost accident to believe that some pilots simply forget they're in an actual plane and not a simulator.
What was strange to me about their delayed response was that it wasn’t an issue at all to increase their altitude. Even if they thought it was some sort of instrument malfunction problem, increasing the altitude when you’re only at 8K would give you a bigger safety margin anyways so why not go ahead and increase the altitude anyways.
I suggest you read the article on Aviation Herald concerning this incident. The final report of the French Aviation Authority was released in early August 22. A very scary read.
Theflight channel Please make videos on these crashes: 1: Japan Airlines 123 crash due to tail broken 2: Charkhi Dadri mid air collision 3: TWA 800 Crash 4: China Airlines crash due to improper maintenance 5: Air india crash due to explosion in Ireland 6: Pan Am crash in Lockerbie, Scotland due to explosion
@@FuckPedos the topic you shouldn’t talk about because you will see all the Swiss 🧀 cheese holes in the official story in case you haven’t realized the reality of the USA
How can an experienced Captain and presumably an intelligent human being assign himself the task of monitoring terrain then 5 minutes later start to monitor the weather? Jeez, the mind boggles
There was once a case where an experienced crew of a L-1011 tried to find out why the control light of the landing gear was not on after extending the gear (it was just the lightning bulb which was broken). They forgot to fly the aircraft during night and it crashed into the sumps because the crew was distracted and nobody was actually flying the aircraft.
Cabin Crew on flight deck..: "Helloooo...I don't mean to be a bother, BUT trees outside...you may want to act on the 'Terrain'/'Pull Up' annunciations"
As a retired professional pilot watching this video I was sitting here saying "No, No." So many CFIT accidents, (controlled flight into terrain) have occurred because pilots fail to immediately respond when the ground proximity warnings begin to occur. I'm not aware of there ever being a "false alarm" with these systems. Yet, pilots that have lost situational awareness seem incapable of believing that the system is being truthful. I don't really understand. In training, at least the training I had, the very moment that alarm goes off it is immediate full power and pitch for maximum climb rate. No hesitation. You don't sit there for several seconds scratching your head trying to figure out why in the heck is that stupid thing going off? This crew, but especially the passengers are extremely fortunate the first officer responded when he did. It looks appears that if he had waited even two or three seconds more they wouldn't have avoided the terrain.
They literally ignored every alarm until they physically saw TREES outside of their window in the dark??? WTF???!!! Those pilots should be fired for that!!!
@@dwannasandifer3958 I learned about the Mt. Erebus disaster after watching a rare video of the cabin of the actual plane that crashed!! It’s Air New Zealand flight 901, that crashed on November 28th, 1979.
Dang good thing there were very few passengers on this flight! Could be its light weight was what allowed it to climb fast enough to avoid the terrain.
You would think step 1 of establishing procedures on any route would go something like: - "What the highest elevation of any terrain or structure that could possibly, however unlikely, come into play along this route?" - "That would be Mt. Blank. Its highest point is Blank feet. - "Cool. Let's set the minimum en-route operating altitude 1,000 feet above that." - "Well done, Sir. You save a lot of lives today." I guess I can understand if you're flying routes adjacent to the Himalayas that you don't want every short flight to have to climb up to 30,000 feet. But 13,255 feet doesn't seem tall enough to me to be worth taking any chances. Elongate the climb out by a couple minutes, get the plane up to 15,000 ft over the ocean, and take the terrain completely out of the equation. I'm not a pilot though, so maybe this is much easier said than done.
Wow, count your lucky stars that day, imagine if all the passengers could actually have been able to hear the cockpit conversations before takeoff, they all would have gotten off !
By the way, if anyone ever needs to dispose of a human body, I can recommend an Air France baggage hold. Guaranteed to disappear during flight, if my trips to and from Cameroon with multiple lost baggage, are anything to go by 😡
This is the first of these videos I've watched where the PF actually heeded the alarm and flew the airplane. If he hadn't pulled up as quickly as he did, this would be another disaster video.
I don't know how bad the weather was in the original path, to make such manouver. That doesn't remove the crew from their responsibility to monitor the high terrain around the airfield and en-route minimum safe altitude.
You need to remember that in the summer heavy storms are a daily occurrence, and that it will rain for most of the morning, clear up a little, then rain again in late afternoon till near midnight, with rainfall at times measured in metres of water.
interesting that the captain was apparently the one who pointed out that they were going to have a large workload and made sure to spread it out as evenly as possible among the pilots present...yet he set his radar incorrectly (weather mode vs terrain mode like they decided before takeoff). I'd love to see a transcript of the cockpit conversation from when the terrain alert first started sounding until the first officer begins to respond; the video seems to imply they didn't fully realize that there was an actual terrain issue until they literally saw trees through the windows. did they think it was a radar error or something that was causing the alarms?
I'm impressed that that plane was able to handle the extreme thrust and nose up attitude required to get out of that situation. It's true, the plane is the hero here, not the pilots.
Absolutely RIDICULOUS for a company the size of AirFrance, UNACCEPTABLE! BUT, I tell you, at 10:30 when the pilot revs the engines to MAX to climb... that was AWESOME!!! 🛩
There has to be a better use of the Terrain Avoidance sensors in terms of the advice/warnings that the software gives to the pilots. I owned a 26’ trailer sailer boat for three years and usually sailed singlehanded. The chart-plotter on the boat, which overlays GPS position onto the (mainly underwater) terrain mapping is programmable to issue very similar warnings to those given to these pilots. I just looked up the relative costs of my boat and a 777. You can buy 30,000 of my boats for the cost of a 777; surely more could be done. Wonderful video btw, thank you! ✈️🍾❤️
I no longer fly. Problem solved. We live in a culture where no one can be fired. Where no one is held accountable. There's always a potential law suit or a Really Good reason to not require people to either 'know how to', or to even simply Do their jobs. There's seems to always be a really good reason to give someone a second chance. I'm simply not willing to risk my life to help someone get over their learning curve. On top of that, the whole experience of flying has become a mismanaged nightmare... from lost luggage, delayed and cancelled flights, and being herded like cattle through too many people with zero social skills - just done with it all.
Got that right can't say it any better. Last time I went overseas was to London, Iberia back and forth. Air France has a terrible relationship with customers and their pilots are NOT trained well. After 2008 I saw a lot of people in airports, a lot of noise, people screaming on their phones, Heathrow packed and my seat was changed to the last row. Thanks to the internet I decide not to fly anymore. I rather pay the contacts to come down and discuss business and do a demo of the product instead of me flying 12+ hours with all the unruly passengers. The nice traveling times by planes are long gone. Airlines do anything to make your life miserable. It works for me. Video conference on a big screen, the manufacturer shows me the look alike of the product, send me the quotation as per specifications and called it done. Wait for the product to arrive and pay the balance after checking all the goods work as promised. No more planes for me.
@@GUIRADE95 - Great Comment. I much prefer the road trips now. If a client says... "OH, we need you tomorrow!" I always respond: "Then best of luck when you pick 2nd best. Let me know how that goes". They usually 'see the light' and somehow find the patience to wait. :)
@@Gods2ndFavoriteBassPlyr exactly my friend, too much hassle to travel anywhere. While I was in the USA I've use to travel to the manufacturers plant or HQ. As today and when our body is not the same as 30 years back. I prefer the video conference. I work based on specifications, design and performance. If the first unit works as per request then we issue the final order. No more traveling, traffic in CA is horrible, the worst for me is the fly attendant's,they think they're the law. Rude, careless and the entire flight is a zoo! Weird to see dogs, birds, pigs, and all sorts of wildlife ON BOARD! Hahaha that was the last straw for me. Kind regards from BC.
I love this air channel the best. It is quiet and soothing audibly and visually. I bet there are others here who - like me - say " I watch airplane disaster videos to relax ( along with serial killer videos) . " No, i love and appeciate what this channel does. There is another channel with the most obnoxious know-it-all with a voice to match. I have learned to avoid those people.
Air France has a major problem with their pilots, it always seems like they can never properly fly their planes without any problems. Seriously, we just had a cockpit brawl between two pilots a few days ago on another Air France flight! There are already 15 to 20 reports on that route alone in a two-year span. I'm not even going to get started with the other stupid incidents and accidents in this airline that have happened because the pilots had no basic understanding on how to fly the airplane. Air France really needs a wake-up call.
Well i regularly fly air france and as u see, i am quite old and still alive , and never had a pb in flight, almost always on time in destination, ? any more question?
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Hearing “TERRAIN TERRAIN, PULL UP” and “TOO LOW, TERRAIN”:is terrifying enough when you’re not expecting it,but hearing “TOO LOW, GEAR” when you’re still climbing? I’m amazed the co-pilot was still functioning after that.
He was very delayed in his functioning. That was the problem.
How close did it get to the terrain?
@Toa Kodan
STALL.. STALL.. isn’t nice one either
@@starcorpvncjhe pulled up really quickly, on the explanation it May seem as it was long but the action happend really quick thats not the issue here. The problem is failure to properly prevent this from happening in the first place by properly identifying the Mountain and when diverting knowing your lower then that Mountain you should either climb or vector to pass it safely
Air France has a serious problem with the training of its pilots (or maybe it is the pilots who have a serious problem). The Toronto accident, and the Rio-Paris accident both happened because of huge mistakes of beginner pilots. A few months ago in Paris two pilots put their plane in danger for no reason at all just by not knowing how to hold the horizon in manual flight. And now a few days ago on a Geneva-Paris flight, the two pilots are fighting each other in the cockpit. Seriously, how many more ridiculous incidents will it take for Air France to wake up these pilots? No other national airline makes such gross piloting errors. In any case I don't feel safe with them.
Exactly mate. I was just about to say the same thing. Don't know what's wrong with airfrance.. so many pilot errors!
How bout lack of weather information
It's called "laissez-faire".
Magari a volte son troppo sicuri di sé. Ma sono francesi, che ti aspettavi?
@Helushka Loyalheart Offcourse they were from "the Euro". Oh but that won't fit your racist agenda is it?
I'm having a very hard time understanding how an airline like Air France could have this many oversights and safety problems with a route in 2015. I mean, 15-17 safety reports on that route in a 2 year period? Geez, hopefully the issues were addressed.
I wouldn't count on it.
Air France has been on my no fly list for years. The co-pilot is asked to make a turn but is unsure of where they are but nonetheless complies. He should have questioned the Captain. Next a terrain warning yet continue to fly on like it means nothing. Then a terrain warning along with pull up and the co-pilot finally puts 2 +2 together. Maybe. Slow and unprofessional in my book. Flying a passenger plane is serious business and if you are not 100% with it the whole flight. start to finish, then get out of the cockpit.
It's Air France. Bunch of clowns
@@tbm3fan913 Too much wine and cheese and too laid back for me. I want a pilot that is vigilant.
@@BigEightiesNewWave what did we expect from the french?
As an employee of GE Aviation, who works on the GE-90 engine regularly, I really appreciate this video! Those engines are absolute monsters! I dig all of your videos, but this one was a little more personal
GE makes the best engines in the world. Absolutely undisputed fact.. got a problem with them electrocuting elephants to death to prove how dangerous Westinghouse alternating current was vs. direct current, but as far as gas turbines go, they are the best. General Engines might be a better description of the company. Their appliances are about as good as P&W's engines. Still don't own a GE appliance
The sound of those engineering masterpiece is like a fine tuned instrument
My Dad was a private pilot, always found it interesting! So how much thrust do those puppies put out? I bet it's a LOT!
@@mobius-1503 😑
And your evidence to back up your claim is where ?
Not a pilot but I imagine if I heard "Too low, Terrain" I wouldn't give it another second. Disengage, max throttle, pull up. Those pilots took their sweet time assessing an obvious warning. Pitch up ask questions later
That's why we need people like you to go through this training and fly for us!
I'm not entirely sure how it happened but the way it was described by Mentour Pilot's video about this incident they did it instantly. Apparently they had done terrain escape maneuver training in the simulator a very short time before so they could simply act on instinct.
I totally agreed. All 3 crew should have been dismissed as inept. They knew a high volcano is in front. The radar shows them. There are multiple warning they ignored until the reserve pilot actually saw the trees from his side window. Absolute incompetence.
Not a pilot, either, but careful with over-reacting. I imagine that max throttle up (which is probably what I would have done too) might stall the engine out, then you would have REAL problems...
@@starcorpvncj You and OP don't understand enough about this incident to be commenting because they did pull up immediately and applied full throttle half a second later.
The GPWS sounded terrain pull up for 8 seconds because thats how long the event lasted.
It keeps sounding until you clear the terrain not when you respond.
The trees were spotted while in the terrain escape maneuver.
Second they did not know the volcano was there, they thought they were south and east of the volcano not north and west of it. The radar did not actually show the volcano because as explained in the video they did not switch to terrain mode long enough for the screen to update. Instead they had a blank terrain screen because it takes 8 seconds to fully update and they only waited 6 seconds on terrain mode.
So when they proceed to make a right turn and suddenly where getting terrain warnings they couldn't make sense of how the was possible a right turn should be taking them away from terrain.
Thinking this was possibly mt cameroon the started to turn harder still thinking they are south of the mountain and that getting the nose headed east will resolve the caution.
Remember it takes 8 seconds for a full radar sweep and so the screen only refreshes every 8 seconds. This plust the startle response of the situation mean by the time they have gotten around to assessing the terrain screen the turn has made the situation worse and instead of a terrain ahead warning they are now within 30 seconds of a collision triggering the GPWS "Pull up" command.
This is what saved the plane from certain death because the pilots immediately executed the climb as they were trained to.
Ignoring being in that situation in the first place they did everything they should and they did it faster than average upon review. Meaning that if they did anything wrong it was only to do with getting in that situation at all.
If you did research on that you would find that bad aeronautical chart design, and poor threat evaluation by the company of the route lead to the confusion and miscalculated position of the plane.
Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions and then asserting "Absolute incompetence." based on those false conclusions. If you can't be bothered to do a little fact checking and make an unbiased value claim when it doesn't matter since your view has no bearing on what happens to them.
How can anyone ever trust you to make such decisions and go the extra mile to get it right when it does matter.
How can you even trust yourself to make decisions for yourself, if your so willing to make false claims and accusations.
On top of all that you don't fire people for mistakes, you fire people who show that they have had ample opportunity to both learn and create good habits and still they fail to do so. Meaning they will never learn from mistakes or that the mistake went against what they were trained to do.
At no point did the pilots deviate from their training and at no point in their carriers did the pilots show signs of problematic habits or training outcomes.
I hope you take this as a learning opportunity for yourself to better your habits and how you assess and gather information so when you have to make decisions big or small that make affect someone else's life you can make the right one.
I just can't get over those engines being revved up to the MAX at around 10:30 to climb... absolutely AWESOME!!!
I wonder how the aircraft would have performed in that steep climb if it had 230 passengers and bags instead of 23! Would be interesting to know by what margin they crossed the highest point of the mountain. An empty 777 can climb like a rocket. But a fully loaded one, no so much.
Give and take - approx 35,000 lbs vs 3,500 lbs. Would've certainly memorialized the Mt.
Wouldn't have reacted as quick as it did. They got extremely lucky.
I was wondering the same thing. Looked it up and apparently the lowest point was 2100' above ground.
@@xn40sarethebest Doesn't sound like that much lol. Glad they made it safely.
@@johnalexander7490 Yeah, it was a little more than the animations made it look, but it still could've ended in disaster had it been fully loaded...
It is a nice change to find out no one died during this flight! So many times the ending is a complete loss of life. Nice way to start a Monday morning! Cheers to all!
I wonder if the passengers knew at the time how close they came to not making it over that mountain....
They know now after watching the video! Can you imagine seeing that out the window?
Not even the cabin crew was informed, I can tell, I was one of them and learnt about it a month later…
Who wants 9/11 flight UA175, AA11, UA93 and AA flight 77 hijack reconstruction ????
@@jetaddicted
A month? I figured it would be a lot shorter than that with someone from the cabin crew *sitting* in the cockpit, but right...
@Moon Cricket what, HILARIOUS?! Are you crazy ? I mean, this joke is not even funny, you basically wished a death of more than 40 people. I hope next time you will think before saying a stupid joke
Thank God for these huge GE90-90B2 engines.
That and only 44 total people on board really helped it climb quickly lol.
That's what they're there for.
@Joe Ropaio It makes a huge difference and it may have saved their life. You sometimes see very fast and sharp take off of commercial airplanes. It's because they're empty of passengers. (and yes, of cargo)
"Hey why does god get the credit?"
- GE Engineer
@Joe Ropaio Boeings have a high wing loading if they are fully loaded. This helps in terms of efficiency, but it don't help if you want to climb fast. Fully loaded 777-300ERs even have to burn some fuel first before they can reach the full cruising altitude, since the coffin corner prevents them from reaching cruising altitude shortly after take off
Apparently luck had more to do with saving this aircraft than advanced technology. Their general awareness seemed poor, as did their responses to terrain indications and warnings. It’s hard to believe that there isn’t a display which represents a 3D perspective of the plane’s location relative to the surrounding topography. There are quite a few incidents that I can think of where such a display could have averted an impending catastrophe.
NASADEM, GPS and a computer could do that
The safety alerts did sound off. Both radar and terrain monitoring indicators were selected to weather. This played a role in the near miss.
I've seen some cessna jets before with that kind of technology. I'm sure it helps a lot of pilots
Even on flight simulator i avoided the mountains!
Its weird how you can buy a Cessna 172 with that Synthetic Vision technology but not a 777. I guess thats the difference between private and commercial though. You'd think it would be a standard option by now.
The briefly mentioned wrong scaling of Malabo airport on the route map deserves more attention. You can find it online - it’s definitely super confusing to look at for a lay person; surely wasn’t helpful for the pilots of this flight. This poorly scaled map became another major distraction in an already problematic flight. It has the Malabo airport area zoomed in in a separate box within the map, in order to shrink the distance between mainland and Malabo and make Malabo fit on the map. Kind of like what US maps do to Hawaii and Alaska. Because of the weird scaling and the “map within the map” situation, the crucial position of Mount Cameroon was distorted and the map was almost useless during this flight’s problematic climb pattern and the pilots’ focus on avoiding adverse weather. Actually not only useless, but additionally confusing.
And 15 flight reports for one route in 2 years time? C’mon AF, get it together.
The slices of the Swiss cheese were all aligned for this flight, but at the very last moment one slice was replaced by a different one and the disaster was averted.
On a different note: the was a Fincomm flight operated by ATR72 in the early 2000s, that I believe had four go-arounds on landing due to unstable approaches, the pilots got preoccupied with landing at any cost and with every stressful missed approach they were making additional mistakes resulting in yet another go-around. They landed on their 5th attempt. I can’t seem to find any traces of this incident anymore, but it definitely happened and I even read the report that I can’t seem to mysteriously find online anymore. Anyone knows where to find the report or remembers this flight? I’d love FC to cover this incident🙏🏼
I agree, this incident is covered better by Mentour Pilot: th-cam.com/video/SqleyIQ0C8Y/w-d-xo.html
The map was actually an instrument approach plate, which should not have been used for the briefing & enroute tracking.
Don't know about the Finnair flight, but there was a JetAirways Flight 555 that had 6 missed approaches, not enough fuel to reach an alternate, weather not improving, no other option… and finally landed on the 7th try, with fumes remaining in the tanks. Check out @Mentour Pilot channel… m.th-cam.com/video/o-IuOnDBoGA/w-d-xo.html
listen, nobody cares
@@fibecheee I do
We don't know where we are, there's a 13,000 foot volcano around here somewhere but let's continue at an altitude of 8,000 feet.
That was what I was thinking.
@@tsp6147 I've never heard of a commercial airliner cruising at 8,000 feet like that anyway. They weren't even on their decent yet.
Mentour Pilot has an excellent documentary about this incident
He is excellent
@@SFbayArea94121 So is this man behind all of the Animation and Stuff
Articulate and well spoken
Exactly. In fact, I watched it just yesterday! 🤣🤣
Petter is really good and professional in the way he presents the facts. It is always a pleasure to listen to him. And it is always a pleasure watching TFC. Professionalism². ❤️
I was wondering why this incident sounded so familiar.
I have been wonder how the passengers felt when the plane was raised to maximum thrust from 8000 feet to over 13000 feet in just a few minutes.
They must have really enjoyed that sensation. Not knowing we almost scraped a volcano I would have actually thanked the pilot for that maneuver.
My face the entire time all the bells & whistles started going off in the cockpit:🤯😳😯 See this is another reason I don't like flying at night. So glad the pilots listened to the plane & was able to skirt a collision! Another outstanding, edge of your seat video Mr/Mrs. Flight Channel Person!!👌
As a passenger I love flying at night, I lean against the window and watch the various cities and their beautiful lights go by… It’s like fling among the ✨!
@@lordhung7013 f that! I drink quite a bit of cognac, it helps
@@Carlito_Brigante93 To each his own! LOL
@@lordhung7013 yes, I wish could still smoke in flight
They were pretty lucky. Had they been late by just a couple seconds, they would’ve gotten everyone killed.
Forget the engines, if any debt is owed it is to Honeywell and in particular to C Donald Bateman who pioneered the Ground Proximity Warning System. Don passed away at 91 on May 21, 2023 but this system has saved countless lives. RIP
Seems like they took a while before responding to the terrain warnings, especially with that big red splotch right in front of their aircraft on their navigation instruments. What were they thinking?
En Francais.
Indeed. Are these pilots that unfamiliar with the surrounding terrain? They aren’t because they mentioned the ‘mountain’ to the north. Yeegads
@@davesmith5656 google=> On dirait qu'ils ont mis du temps avant de répondre aux avertissements de terrain. surtout avec cette tache rouge juste devant leurs avions sur leurs instruments de navigation. A quoi pensaient-ils?
@@hakunamatata2000 ---- Your humor is appreciated.
Moreover, when you fly in the region, Mount Cameroon really sticks out, litterally. Its pretty singular. Even when going to Yaounde, Libreville or even Brazaville southbound, you always have the thing at least somewhere in the back of your mind, at night even more so (yes, weather or not, the ground is very dark over there).
I get the mental load comming from their concerns with weather, poor ATC and nav, etc. etc. ... up to some point. Drops in awareness of this magnitude should start to be investigated more thoroughly, IMHO.
Man I just cannot begin to IMAGINE how jet airliners back in the 50s could even fly without the ample amount of safety technology that we have in modern planes today. If it wasn't for the GPSW and radio altimeter during flights with low visibility, this would've been a certain massive plane crash. Technology is so crucial man, saved many lives that day (and everyday)
Unforgivable breakdown of crew resource management and no questioning of changes to the flight plan.
Exactly at the Airline I used to work for a few AirFrance incidents and accidents were used as case studies in CRM training.
Thankfully the jumpseat passenger saw those trees....what if they hadn't?
@@captainmorrow"and the copilot" plus they responded 8 seconds after the EGPWS sounded on the second turn. The mistake regarding the fact that they positioned the mountain north rather then north east was because of the layout of the map region which could easily cause confusion 🤦♂️
WTF?!? After seeing several other Air France disasters on this channel, you have to wonder about their Pilot Training. So it was the Captain's idea to split the screens between terrain mode and weather mode, then he proceeds to set them both to weather mode. C'mon man!!
"Caution terrain, caution terrain, terrain terrain, pull up"
French people: what a cool song
th-cam.com/video/iEpHKBjXvN4/w-d-xo.html
American pilots not even hearing 😘
Yeah the pilots screwed up but it was refreshing to see them take the terrain warning seriously and react as quickly as they could. Despite training so many times we see pilots react too late or ignore the warning all together. Again I know the pilots should never have let it come to that but I just want to give them credit for the recovery.
The 777 is a damn fine very safe plane.
Didn't you watch the video? They didn't react strongly at all. It wasn't until the reserve pilot actually saw trees out of his side window that the co-pilot actually finally reacted. So what was the captain doing I wonder?
@@starcorpvncj I love your kitty!
They got a terrain warning after initiating a turn to the right and then, in response, turned even further in the direction that caused the terrain warning in the first instance. Generally, if a pilot doesn't know where they are and heading in a particular direction causes a terrain warning, they should probably reverse their turn so they are moving away from the climbing terrain. Some questionable decision-making here...
Hmm what is that HUGE RED thing on the terrain radar... lol. Lets go right at her!!
When you look out the window and see trees the terrain warning starts to make sense.
I'm no pilot but when an aircraft is telling you to pull up, you pull up
Especially if you're looking up at them.
There was a chain of errors, including to not pull up at first when warned to, but they eventually responded to the terrain ahead warning correctly.
I wonder what is Air France training and official procedure to follow when there's a "pull up" warning...
The warning sounded many times before they took any action. In af447 the stall warning sounded 58 times without pilots understood anything. Now we have 3 cases where FO simply froze goving the wrong inputs to the flight control system.
@@herceg6772 effectively, and without visual situational awareness, i would have expect the pilot flying to disconnect autopilot, put in maximum thrust (there's a lag) and then pull up at the limit of the available envelope at least until the alarm stop or the pilot non-flying have full situational awareness, then do a situational assessment.
Not turn blindly using the automation. This could have killed them all.
The captain insisting they stop climbing at 11000ft (Mt Cameroon tops at over 13000ft) still worries me. They were confused about the location ot the thing before, did he at that point know where the summit was ?
oh come on.....those "pull up" warnings are only for sissies......no one pays attention to those...its like when the fire alarms go off in buildings and everyone just sits there and looks at each other and then goes back to work....until the REAL emergency happens....you know, like smoke or fire consumes them or in this case, the plane crashed into a mountain or to be more correct...a volcano... : D
Simple……you pull up. That’s the procedure that we’re taught
Thanks for enlightening the nighttime scenes so we could appreciate them better. Good, seldom told story, TFC!
Air France, beeing Air France!
Yes, AF being AF : brutally honest about its mistakes and communicating about them so they are not repeated, not hiding stuff, unlike most other airlines.
Dont include all the airline , ive been mostly flying air france for most of my life and never experienced any problems. And there is only 6 videos of air france in this channel
The pilots did not simultaneously initiate disconnect of autothrottles in conjunction with autopilot disconnect to control the energy of their bird as they increased alpha, rather the automation initiated that disconnect configuration. One might want to go manual for TO/GO power asap upon the first GWPS alert, particularly with their low altitude and lack of positional awareness.
I stayed at a Holliday Inn and fully agree.
I'm disappointed that they didn't react to the instrument warnings first but rather to a visual of terrain.
@@johng669
...If you _know_ there's a huge 13,500 foot freaking mountain out there in the dark, and you start getting terrain warnings, just climb to 15,000 feet.
It might be a false alarm?
But if you've accidentally found aforesaid huge freaking mountain in the dark, you don't want to hit it?
Assume the worst case scenario for safety reasons, when overreacting is incredibly safer than underreacting.
Here's a question: Depending on flight speed (yes they are not at landing speed), would minor flaps (5%) be able to withstand and yet add to the climb rate/angle?
@@wannamontana4130 if a plane is maintaining altitude while “clean” (retracted flaps/slats & retracted landing gear), and where the planes needs to climb rapidly, there’s no advantage to pushing out flaps. Rather, the pilot would increase engines thrust and pull back on the yoke using the horizontal elevators to pitch the nose up.
Shouldn't they have immediately initiated a terrain avoidance maneuver? I thought once you get those terrain ahead warnings you're supposed to go maximum thrust and pull up as much as possible without stalling until the terrain is cleared?
Exactly. If it's a false alarm, so what?. If it's real, you save everyone.✈
It's hard to believe this could happen with such a small flight path.
The fears pilots must have, from a warning saying, "Terrian Pull-up.
Staying calm, and reacting quickly, seems to always end well.
I've watched countless "Flight videos with real audio, and the pilots that remain calm and focused in bad situations impress me.
When some pilots panic and don't listen to one another, both take control of the situation, and it goes badly.
For pilots, every second counts when facing bad situations.
I'm happy about this flight making it to its destination safely. XO
They need to teach pilots that the plane is smarter than they are, when it
says " terrain ", dont argue, just pull up.
Rewatch the video and watch mentour pilot documentary on the incident. The escape maneouver was executed less then 20 seconds after the first EGPWS call and 8 seconds after the EGPWS call after the second turn. These were excellent and aware pilots besides the fact they thought the mountain was north of them rather then north east. Which was caused by the layout of the Map chart of the region.
That stuff is crazy! They were so lucky! Wow
I just about 3 weeks ago, flew on Air France from Heathrow to Paris and then Florence. Thankfully, no issues
Imagine being an iguana just chilling at the top of that volcano. And here comes Air France a few hundred feet overhead lol.
That is the first time I have ever heard of a case where the EGPWS/GPWS actually saved anyone from impacting terrain! I’m glad to hear that it does sometimes work. I presume there is no real difference between GPWS and EGPWS and that one is just newer and more efficient? I’ve been conditioned to think of the “whoop whoop pull up!” sound as a death knell , it makes my heart beat faster and I’m full of dread waiting for the crash sound and the words “everyone was killed” to come on the screen. These guys were lucky and live to see another day. Video was excellent - this channel is the gold standard in aviation mishap presentations.
IIRC, the EGPWS has improved look-ahead capability vs the older system, which mainly looked down.
There are a couple of examples where the GPWS has sounded but the aircrew didn't act accordingly and crashed. When investigators crunched the numbers, had the aircrew immediately floored the gas and grabbed some Alpha, they would have cleared the terrain with no issues.
@@mbvoelker8448 thanks 😊
@@ricbarker4829 yes, now you mention it I’ve listened to some odd responses on a CVC. Responses like “ah good” etc.
GPWS only looks down - if a mountain is steep it can be too late to pull up. EGPWS has a digital map and knows where the aircraft is, and can warn the pilots before it gets dangerous.
Here in the U.S. I'm concerned about the current situation with over-worked pilots due to the pilot shortage, plus all the flight cancelations leading to increased pressure. I hope it gets resolved soon...
Unlikely. They will continue to lose vaccinated pilots to illness and death. They will not allow the return of healthy, unvaccinated pilots.
I have said the same; I am raying for people's safety. In addition to the pilot shortage, I worry, in terms of maintenance, that potentially corners are being cut due to supply chain issues.
Same here in south east asia.. pilots shortage, planes many under maintenance and overbooking/ delayed flights issue.. I hope it will be resolved soon.
@@travelerforever8849 thanks for update, we certainly don’t get that info on the news here.
These concerns are exactly why when I fly out of DIA (Denver) anywhere to the west (LA, SEATTLE, San Fransisco etc,) I never take a red-eye in the middle of the night. I’ll leave a day earlier and spend a night in the hotel before the meeting I have the next day. Plus, I like the window seat to watch what’s below us, and I LOVE drinking the local brews during dinner in a different area than I live in. Ok, honestly, I tell my company I’m more comfortable flying when the pilots can actually see where the Rocky Mountains are so I can spend the night in cool places on the west coast. Don’t tell my bosses that please.
I really love your style of videos. You’re so detailed and that makes it easy to see what is happening. Thanks for all your great content!
I visited Cameroon a few years back, and everyone still talks about this.
Wow 😮. One thing after another with AirFrance. That Rio-Paris tragedy could have been easily avoided. All pilots know when the plane is about to stall, you put the nose down. For some reason, the FO kept pulling the nose up which kept IAS below stall putting the ac into a flat fall. Sadly, when the PIC awoke and came into the cockpit, he realized too late the FO was pulling up on the control stick. It just blows my mind he was doing that. RIP to all victims of that flight.
1. This highlights the value of commercial airliners with good climb performance and high thrust to weight ratios (for an airliner; I'm not comparing them to an F-22). The 777 can climb 1,500 feet per minute on one engine! The 757 is great for "hot and high" airports and short runways. 2. I am disturbed by the lack of familiarity of this crew with the region in which they are flying. They had no clue where the volcano was; they had no cue what kind of terrain was between the two airports. Wanting to avoid heavy weather is reasonable, but with a mountain to your north, why not turn 60-80 degrees to the south immediately after take-off, then after skirting the weather turn to port to line up with the airport? Air France's management is to blame, but the pilots' poor navigation is unacceptable.
in which region was the mountain/volcano situated exactly?
@@julesjulius187 cameroon
Utterly amazing! A few mental errors and poor judgement narrowly averted. So glad there was no crash, but boy did those pilots and passengers luck out with quick response when they finally realized they were all in peril. Amazing. And another story, close call this time, as to why I don't want to fly at night.
Phew, they were so lucky and clearly Air France need to give their pilot's more training.
I don't get it - the mountain was about 45 miles from the departing airfield, likely visible on a clear day. About the same distance as Sea-Tac to Mt Rainier. How can that not be a factor? Air France is scaring me!
Amazing... and to see that between 2015 and 2017 there were FIFTEEN MORE such instances!! 🤦🏻♂Talk about luck being on your side.😳
Excellent recounting as usual, TFC.👏🏻
I don't understand a flight level of 8,000 when you know there's a 13,000 mountain in the area and it's night.
@@RPG-oh1yf mentor pilot goes into more detail. Essentially they were at that level to start approach which should have been well away from high terrain
@@RPG-oh1yf Yeah, and I think @Yvonne Field has it right.👍🏻
I have watched enough of that kind of accident/almost accident to believe that some pilots simply forget they're in an actual plane and not a simulator.
I love it when the 😯snafu flights end up fine👍without any-one hurt or killed🔥. As usual, a great re-creation of an actual "nail biting" flight.
Yeah when the System says PULL UP
thats the cue to engage terrain escape
What was strange to me about their delayed response was that it wasn’t an issue at all to increase their altitude. Even if they thought it was some sort of instrument malfunction problem, increasing the altitude when you’re only at 8K would give you a bigger safety margin anyways so why not go ahead and increase the altitude anyways.
I suggest you read the article on Aviation Herald concerning this incident. The final report of the French Aviation Authority was released in early August 22. A very scary read.
another epic work TFC!
Wait im pretty sure i know you.
I force him to work so I can profit
Ah ok understanable
Theflight channel
Please make videos on these crashes:
1: Japan Airlines 123 crash due to tail broken
2: Charkhi Dadri mid air collision
3: TWA 800 Crash
4: China Airlines crash due to improper maintenance
5: Air india crash due to explosion in Ireland
6: Pan Am crash in Lockerbie, Scotland due to explosion
9/11 reconstruction tooo
@@FuckPedos the topic you shouldn’t talk about because you will see all the Swiss 🧀 cheese holes in the official story in case you haven’t realized the reality of the USA
@@FuckPedos it's illegal to re-create 9/11 in games I think?
@@BGI_guy In the United States, the First Amendment would allow the recreation of the 9/11/2001 incident.
@@BGI_guywhy should be illegal to make an video of what happened on 9/11, the second last video was about an plane hijack
It's so gratifying to see pilots paying attention and climbing out of fatal incursion. 🙂
I love watching these videos while I’m literally sitting in the lounge at the airport awaiting my flight :)
"Ladies and Gentlemen... below us you may be able to make out Mt. Cameron passing just under the aircraft..." 😅
Lucky puppies.
How can an experienced Captain and presumably an intelligent human being assign himself the task of monitoring terrain then 5 minutes later start to monitor the weather? Jeez, the mind boggles
Poor crew resource management.
@@XavierLignieres it is always Air France
There was once a case where an experienced crew of a L-1011 tried to find out why the control light of the landing gear was not on after extending the gear (it was just the lightning bulb which was broken). They forgot to fly the aircraft during night and it crashed into the sumps because the crew was distracted and nobody was actually flying the aircraft.
Cabin Crew on flight deck..: "Helloooo...I don't mean to be a bother, BUT trees outside...you may want to act on the 'Terrain'/'Pull Up' annunciations"
As a retired professional pilot watching this video I was sitting here saying "No, No." So many CFIT accidents, (controlled flight into terrain) have occurred because pilots fail to immediately respond when the ground proximity warnings begin to occur. I'm not aware of there ever being a "false alarm" with these systems. Yet, pilots that have lost situational awareness seem incapable of believing that the system is being truthful. I don't really understand. In training, at least the training I had, the very moment that alarm goes off it is immediate full power and pitch for maximum climb rate. No hesitation. You don't sit there for several seconds scratching your head trying to figure out why in the heck is that stupid thing going off?
This crew, but especially the passengers are extremely fortunate the first officer responded when he did. It looks appears that if he had waited even two or three seconds more they wouldn't have avoided the terrain.
Apart from the obvious storms the second thing is to avoid Mt Cameroon right or wrong?
I'm wondering how many planes have crash due to storms or pilot errors.
TheFlightChannel is best.
Thank you.
They literally ignored every alarm until they physically saw TREES outside of their window in the dark??? WTF???!!! Those pilots should be fired for that!!!
The screen changes so rapidly that there is not enough time to read the descriptive lines. Slow it down please.
My heart was in my throat. This very nearly turned into another Mount Erebus disaster.
I've never heard about that one...do tell!
@@dwannasandifer3958 I learned about the Mt. Erebus disaster after watching a rare video of the cabin of the actual plane that crashed!! It’s Air New Zealand flight 901, that crashed on November 28th, 1979.
Whew.....thx goodness they had a relief pilot!
Where ya from ??
I was hoping to see a tag line at the end that read..."Dedicated to all the flight crew and passengers that survived Air France Fligh 953."
Good to see that the Triple 7 has power from hell to save this crew and passengers.
First video where I can hear the scary " TERRAIN TERRAIN, PULL UP " and that it actually doesn't crash, oof
Dang good thing there were very few passengers on this flight! Could be its light weight was what allowed it to climb fast enough to avoid the terrain.
"Terrain, terrain...PULL UP" could be in a damned horror movie.
Thank god for that flight attendant who noticed the tress!!
On this plane, Pierre Bonin pulled up and saved everyone
In a Boeing, if Bonin would have pulled the same way he did, he would also have stalled the plane
@@Alex-jk3vf Yeah, pilots like Bonin need more practical flight training, or should not be in a cockpit from beginning on
You would think step 1 of establishing procedures on any route would go something like:
- "What the highest elevation of any terrain or structure that could possibly, however unlikely, come into play along this route?"
- "That would be Mt. Blank. Its highest point is Blank feet.
- "Cool. Let's set the minimum en-route operating altitude 1,000 feet above that."
- "Well done, Sir. You save a lot of lives today."
I guess I can understand if you're flying routes adjacent to the Himalayas that you don't want every short flight to have to climb up to 30,000 feet. But 13,255 feet doesn't seem tall enough to me to be worth taking any chances. Elongate the climb out by a couple minutes, get the plane up to 15,000 ft over the ocean, and take the terrain completely out of the equation. I'm not a pilot though, so maybe this is much easier said than done.
Wow, count your lucky stars that day, imagine if all the passengers could actually have been able to hear the cockpit conversations before takeoff, they all would have gotten off !
The difference between night and day! No pilot would be able to see that mountain.
The music very epic cool channel I really love it
In memory of the employment of the people responsible for examining these flight paths.
By the way, if anyone ever needs to dispose of a human body, I can recommend an Air France baggage hold. Guaranteed to disappear during flight, if my trips to and from Cameroon with multiple lost baggage, are anything to go by 😡
This is the first of these videos I've watched where the PF actually heeded the alarm and flew the airplane. If he hadn't pulled up as quickly as he did, this would be another disaster video.
I don't know how bad the weather was in the original path, to make such manouver. That doesn't remove the crew from their responsibility to monitor the high terrain around the airfield and en-route minimum safe altitude.
You need to remember that in the summer heavy storms are a daily occurrence, and that it will rain for most of the morning, clear up a little, then rain again in late afternoon till near midnight, with rainfall at times measured in metres of water.
I'm so glad that everyone survived from certain death
Damn! That was close.
Those banana trees at the Malabo tarmac are spot on!
Air France again? Christ their pilot training program could use a refresh, like 10 years ago.
This flight in a nutshell: TERRAIN TERRAIN, PULL UP 💀 whew, that was close 😨
I don't know why I like your videos too much... ❤️😍plane videos🔥🔥
Simp bot spam I love you you are part of what is known as diversity
interesting that the captain was apparently the one who pointed out that they were going to have a large workload and made sure to spread it out as evenly as possible among the pilots present...yet he set his radar incorrectly (weather mode vs terrain mode like they decided before takeoff). I'd love to see a transcript of the cockpit conversation from when the terrain alert first started sounding until the first officer begins to respond; the video seems to imply they didn't fully realize that there was an actual terrain issue until they literally saw trees through the windows. did they think it was a radar error or something that was causing the alarms?
Why did it take such a long time for the pilots to react to the terrain warnings?
thanks for the production value, man, great work there
Holy Crap that plane literally saved everyone's lives! 🙀
I like the 777 but to be fair all modern airliners have this type of safety alert system.
No it didn't. Pure luck did.
@@Design_no nah God did. 100%
I'm impressed that that plane was able to handle the extreme thrust and nose up attitude required to get out of that situation. It's true, the plane is the hero here, not the pilots.
WHY ON EARTH DID IT TAKE SO LONG FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY PULL UP??? i almost crapped myself 0_0
Subhan’Allah! Everyone survived!
I would love to knows what the lowest terrain clearance was.
@Joe Ropaio It's 5.5 cm.
2000ft AGL
Absolutely RIDICULOUS for a company the size of AirFrance, UNACCEPTABLE! BUT, I tell you, at 10:30 when the pilot revs the engines to MAX to climb... that was AWESOME!!! 🛩
There has to be a better use of the Terrain Avoidance sensors in terms of the advice/warnings that the software gives to the pilots.
I owned a 26’ trailer sailer boat for three years and usually sailed singlehanded. The chart-plotter on the boat, which overlays GPS position onto the (mainly underwater) terrain mapping is programmable to issue very similar warnings to those given to these pilots.
I just looked up the relative costs of my boat and a 777. You can buy 30,000 of my boats for the cost of a 777; surely more could be done.
Wonderful video btw, thank you! ✈️🍾❤️
"Annnnnd as we level off here.... if you look out to your right, you can spot squirrels and birds in the trees..."
I no longer fly. Problem solved. We live in a culture where no one can be fired. Where no one is held accountable. There's always a potential law suit or a Really Good reason to not require people to either 'know how to', or to even simply Do their jobs. There's seems to always be a really good reason to give someone a second chance. I'm simply not willing to risk my life to help someone get over their learning curve. On top of that, the whole experience of flying has become a mismanaged nightmare... from lost luggage, delayed and cancelled flights, and being herded like cattle through too many people with zero social skills - just done with it all.
Got that right can't say it any better.
Last time I went overseas was to London, Iberia back and forth.
Air France has a terrible relationship with customers and their pilots are NOT trained well.
After 2008 I saw a lot of people in airports, a lot of noise, people screaming on their phones, Heathrow packed and my seat was changed to the last row.
Thanks to the internet I decide not to fly anymore.
I rather pay the contacts to come down and discuss business and do a demo of the product instead of me flying 12+ hours with all the unruly passengers.
The nice traveling times by planes are long gone.
Airlines do anything to make your life miserable.
It works for me.
Video conference on a big screen, the manufacturer shows me the look alike of the product, send me the quotation as per specifications and called it done.
Wait for the product to arrive and pay the balance after checking all the goods work as promised.
No more planes for me.
@@GUIRADE95 - Great Comment. I much prefer the road trips now. If a client says... "OH, we need you tomorrow!" I always respond: "Then best of luck when you pick 2nd best. Let me know how that goes". They usually 'see the light' and somehow find the patience to wait. :)
@@Gods2ndFavoriteBassPlyr exactly my friend, too much hassle to travel anywhere.
While I was in the USA I've use to travel to the manufacturers plant or HQ.
As today and when our body is not the same as 30 years back.
I prefer the video conference.
I work based on specifications, design and performance.
If the first unit works as per request then we issue the final order.
No more traveling, traffic in CA is horrible, the worst for me is the fly attendant's,they think they're the law. Rude, careless and the entire flight is a zoo!
Weird to see dogs, birds, pigs, and all sorts of wildlife ON BOARD! Hahaha that was the last straw for me.
Kind regards from BC.
I love this air channel the best. It is quiet and soothing audibly and visually. I bet there are others here who - like me - say " I watch airplane disaster videos to relax ( along with serial killer videos) . " No, i love and appeciate what this channel does. There is another channel with the most obnoxious know-it-all with a voice to match. I have learned to avoid those people.
Air France has a major problem with their pilots, it always seems like they can never properly fly their planes without any problems. Seriously, we just had a cockpit brawl between two pilots a few days ago on another Air France flight! There are already 15 to 20 reports on that route alone in a two-year span. I'm not even going to get started with the other stupid incidents and accidents in this airline that have happened because the pilots had no basic understanding on how to fly the airplane. Air France really needs a wake-up call.
I agree somebody needs to wake up, but I think the flying public needs to be the first. Stay off an Air France flight.
Well i regularly fly air france and as u see, i am quite old and still alive , and never had a pb in flight, almost always on time in destination, ? any more question?
If pilots could see trees, so could the passengers. "Yikes"
Terrain terrain pull up pull up….. every pilot’s worst nightmare