Hope you get better soon - this stuff sucks. Mine has been mostly from upper chest up - a lot of pressure in nasal cavity. Been downstairs for to long had to get out!
Sorry you got COVID! Glad your not feeling so bad you can still do some stuff! You've got a lot first world problems to be thankful for. Being stuck in the "dungeon" that is a very well configured and decorated basement entertainment theater with a keyboard Internet back office. In all seriousness I hope your COVID is past the worst part and you will be over with it completely soon! It's a bit strange the Inverters aren't designed to do a better job of minimizing the extreme jolt of a prolonged short when connected to 24VDC. Now if that 24VDC supply was from lead-acid starter motor batteries those batteries are designed to see a near short when running a starter motor. When starting a 12VDC car the battery has such a strong load on it the voltage can drop way below 12VDC and 7 - 8 volts or lower might be seen. That voltage drop on a lithium battery pack might be seen by the protection system as dangerous to the lithium cells. I don't understand why, but when lithium cells drop below a certain voltage the protection system is designed to disconnect them and not allow them to be charged or used. That doesn't happen with an RC car six cell lithium battery pack that is just a battery pack with no protection circuitry. I've been able to recharge it even though its at low voltage, but my Ryobi battery pack refuses charging and it is likely because the battery voltage has dropped below some critical level and the protection system has disconnected it. Maybe you've already had the experience or the knowledge isn't worth the effort, but seeing if the Inverters connected to a couple 12VDC car starter batteries connected in series might reveal the true origin of the Inverter's design being for conventional lead-acid batteries. A non sophisticated fix would be to have a 0.1 Ω shunt wired in series with the input to the Inverter that would be active when the input capacitor is discharged. When the input capacitors reach a certain level of charge a relay would close to short out the shunt providing a low resistant path between the batteries and the Inverters. Simplifying the circuitry more likely a timer could be used instead of circuit requiring sensing and logic. You could just check the amount of time it takes to charge the capacitors with a shunt installed, then if its relative short period, just double it for use as delay timer switch. If you do connect a couple of starter batteries keep in mind with good conductors they can for a 1/2 second pull close to 1,000 amps! That will blow and spark worse than anything you could do with your house wiring although it is non lethal you could get debris in your eyes and other injuries.
I first learned of the capacitor pre-charging while hooking my outback inverters to my lead acid batteries - dangerous at best. I then learned that any decent high end inverter just needs pre-charged with a resistor before hooking it up. So not really a big deal - something everyone will have to do (or should!). So I just pre-charged my Victrons before hooking to my AGM’s. Now that I have Lithium - they have a BMS (or should). Not a big deal, just precharge the inverter before hooking them up - not a big deal. The issue or problem to solve - was that the EG4’s I am using are supposed to have pre-charging systems in them. So icing on the cake. My issue is that I am using not one, but two large inverters in split phase - a much bigger load to pre-charge. I finally figured out how to do this with the version 1 batteries and the version 2. This allows me to simply turn everything off when not using - so I don’t have to worry about anything being trickle charged, going dead, being overcharged, etc. They will stay that way for years without worry - in the off mode. Now all I have to do is turn the batteries on, turn on the inverters and head down the road. It also allows me a simple way to reset things should a BMS feel the need to turn itself off.
@@CampPrevost It sounds like you've solved your inverters start up over current problem with the lithium battery packs. It seems like a scaleable solution would be to have a sequenced startup of the inverters so the battery packs only have one inverter capacitor bank to pre-charge at a time. That might be what the inverters are now doing. The inverters likely have the most minimum wattage resistor running the shortest time possible for pre-charging the capacitor because it gets incredibly hot and anything more would require more ventilation and larger more expensive high current components. Switching high currents or inductive currents is very frustrating because they arc. That seemingly little aspect actually is the one of the big reasons for running A.C. power verses D.C. power so there is a zero voltage point when fast acting switches can disconnect or connect a circuit. Thanks you for your family Prevost videos!
Curious on why you chose the rack mount batteries? Aren’t you worried about weather and specifically humidity and condensation getting into the inside of the batteries since they are not sealed? Wondered if you spoke with the manufacturer at all about this? I’m looking to do the same thing, so would like to know your reasoning on this. Thanks in advance.
Honestly I chose them because of the finished setup, ability to canbus with Victron and price. Good question on the humidity. I plan to pull the bus out of storage for a spring break trip and can pull a battery out, pop the lid and see in side. The prevost bays are sealed pretty well - just temp fluctuations would be the biggest issue creating moisture. I guess the biggest issue would be traveling on a hot humid day and then exposing to AC - the bays are not AC controlled, only heat - so not expecting much - but you never know.
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Wow. Hope you will be well soon. Fresh air is probably very good for you.Thanks for all the videos .Look forward to learning tech stuff. 😂
Thanks! Hoping to get out in the morning and hook all 3 batteries together and then the battery to the cerbo.
Funny, I'm too sick with Covid watching a video of you and rig while sick on Covid. I'm too sick though glad you are on the mend.
Hope you get better soon - this stuff sucks. Mine has been mostly from upper chest up - a lot of pressure in nasal cavity. Been downstairs for to long had to get out!
You just made my day you know I’m going to do the same thing on sleeping beauty’s twin
Good deal!
Sorry you got COVID! Glad your not feeling so bad you can still do some stuff! You've got a lot first world problems to be thankful for. Being stuck in the "dungeon" that is a very well configured and decorated basement entertainment theater with a keyboard Internet back office. In all seriousness I hope your COVID is past the worst part and you will be over with it completely soon!
It's a bit strange the Inverters aren't designed to do a better job of minimizing the extreme jolt of a prolonged short when connected to 24VDC. Now if that 24VDC supply was from lead-acid starter motor batteries those batteries are designed to see a near short when running a starter motor. When starting a 12VDC car the battery has such a strong load on it the voltage can drop way below 12VDC and 7 - 8 volts or lower might be seen. That voltage drop on a lithium battery pack might be seen by the protection system as dangerous to the lithium cells.
I don't understand why, but when lithium cells drop below a certain voltage the protection system is designed to disconnect them and not allow them to be charged or used. That doesn't happen with an RC car six cell lithium battery pack that is just a battery pack with no protection circuitry. I've been able to recharge it even though its at low voltage, but my Ryobi battery pack refuses charging and it is likely because the battery voltage has dropped below some critical level and the protection system has disconnected it.
Maybe you've already had the experience or the knowledge isn't worth the effort, but seeing if the Inverters connected to a couple 12VDC car starter batteries connected in series might reveal the true origin of the Inverter's design being for conventional lead-acid batteries. A non sophisticated fix would be to have a 0.1 Ω shunt wired in series with the input to the Inverter that would be active when the input capacitor is discharged. When the input capacitors reach a certain level of charge a relay would close to short out the shunt providing a low resistant path between the batteries and the Inverters. Simplifying the circuitry more likely a timer could be used instead of circuit requiring sensing and logic. You could just check the amount of time it takes to charge the capacitors with a shunt installed, then if its relative short period, just double it for use as delay timer switch. If you do connect a couple of starter batteries keep in mind with good conductors they can for a 1/2 second pull close to 1,000 amps! That will blow and spark worse than anything you could do with your house wiring although it is non lethal you could get debris in your eyes and other injuries.
I first learned of the capacitor pre-charging while hooking my outback inverters to my lead acid batteries - dangerous at best. I then learned that any decent high end inverter just needs pre-charged with a resistor before hooking it up. So not really a big deal - something everyone will have to do (or should!).
So I just pre-charged my Victrons before hooking to my AGM’s.
Now that I have Lithium - they have a BMS (or should). Not a big deal, just precharge the inverter before hooking them up - not a big deal.
The issue or problem to solve - was that the EG4’s I am using are supposed to have pre-charging systems in them. So icing on the cake.
My issue is that I am using not one, but two large inverters in split phase - a much bigger load to pre-charge.
I finally figured out how to do this with the version 1 batteries and the version 2.
This allows me to simply turn everything off when not using - so I don’t have to worry about anything being trickle charged, going dead, being overcharged, etc. They will stay that way for years without worry - in the off mode.
Now all I have to do is turn the batteries on, turn on the inverters and head down the road. It also allows me a simple way to reset things should a BMS feel the need to turn itself off.
@@CampPrevost It sounds like you've solved your inverters start up over current problem with the lithium battery packs. It seems like a scaleable solution would be to have a sequenced startup of the inverters so the battery packs only have one inverter capacitor bank to pre-charge at a time. That might be what the inverters are now doing.
The inverters likely have the most minimum wattage resistor running the shortest time possible for pre-charging the capacitor because it gets incredibly hot and anything more would require more ventilation and larger more expensive high current components.
Switching high currents or inductive currents is very frustrating because they arc. That seemingly little aspect actually is the one of the big reasons for running A.C. power verses D.C. power so there is a zero voltage point when fast acting switches can disconnect or connect a circuit.
Thanks you for your family Prevost videos!
Quick video while I have CV - couldn’t take being locked up!
So if I only have one 3k invertor, and it's hooked up; I don't have to worry about pre charge (no load yet) ?
I can’t guarantee it, but I was able to start one of my Victrons without error.
Curious on why you chose the rack mount batteries? Aren’t you worried about weather and specifically humidity and condensation getting into the inside of the batteries since they are not sealed? Wondered if you spoke with the manufacturer at all about this? I’m looking to do the same thing, so would like to know your reasoning on this. Thanks in advance.
Honestly I chose them because of the finished setup, ability to canbus with Victron and price. Good question on the humidity. I plan to pull the bus out of storage for a spring break trip and can pull a battery out, pop the lid and see in side. The prevost bays are sealed pretty well - just temp fluctuations would be the biggest issue creating moisture. I guess the biggest issue would be traveling on a hot humid day and then exposing to AC - the bays are not AC controlled, only heat - so not expecting much - but you never know.