I know the public reaction atm is mostly lusting after a hot assassin and I’m sure a low effort Ssniperwolf style reacting-to-memes video would’ve been more entertaining, but not especially professional from a doctor. The memes are unreal though. First to the CEO down news and then the thirst tsunami. I was a little concerned that I would need to change my profile pic when the first shot of a heavy eyebrowed man with a surgical mask emerged, but once his face was revealed I could rest assured in the knowledge that I’m far less attractive, phew!
I look at it this way, it was a personal issue between the shooter and the CEO. And considering the US is a nation with a mental health care and gun crisis I'm not sure I can call the CEO a victim of anything other than his own stupidity.
I think a lot of people are viewing it as vigilante justice which is obviously a stark contrast to higher profile individuals pushing it as cold blooded murder and, yes it is murder but given the circumstances in the US right now you can see how people would be more sympathetic to the shooter on top of the social media reaction being hot italian thirst trap and mafia memes but that is just how things go these days. I think if it had been anyone else, even just another CEO and not a healthcare insurance CEO, the reaction would've probably been a lot more grounded beyond the "eat the rich" crowd. Still a bit funny though.
So I'm a surgeon in the US. I deal with denials and insurance issues from all insurers... including Medicare and Medicaid (socialized government healthcare that covers about 40% of the US healthcare market, including all children, the poor, the elderly, and the disabled). Denials are annoying and time-consuming, but that's about it. Also, all emergency care for the uninsured in the US and also for ~20 million migrants is provided for free (cost shifted to others basically). I have never ONCE seen a case where a lifesaving treatment was withheld for insurance reasons. The reason is obvious. Any wrongful death case would end up in a multimillion dollar lawsuit. Just like a medical malpractice case. If hundreds of people were dying per day because of insurance denials, the courts would be packed with those cases. All systems have to ration care. In fact, most private insurances in the US are more permissive than some of the national healthcare systems in other countries. Denials I deal with generally involve: MRIs (they require a CT or US first... annoying but not unreasonable) Certain medications when other equivalent meds are on their formulary Unproven or experimental medications I have never had any operation denied (I do general and colorectal surgery). I think the "Insurance companies are killing people" is echo-chamber conventional wisdom for which I have not seen evidence. And I've been practicing >25 years. If the evidence exists, please someone demonstrate it. I suppose that there may be some isolated examples, but no way are we talking "hundreds of people per day". The lawyers would have a field day, and the insurance companies know that.
@@mbmurphy777 Yeah, of course YOU wanna defend the insurance companies. They pay your wages. (usually, when they feel like it) Now go and tell that same thing to my mom that held off on treatments because Walmart's health insurance is shit, and then they fired her when they found out she had cancer. Of course its not the insurance companies fault she didn't go to the doctor and get what seemed like a mild pain check out earlier. Its all her fault right... right? The crippling debt is designed to scare people away from getting treatment. Oh right you cant tell her that, because she is DEAD.
I'm a UHC customer. I had to have my gallbladder out. UHC denied the CT abdomen my gastroenterologist ordered because I hadn't had a colonoscopy. At the time I was 33 years old. Why I did need a bloody colonoscopy?! I was sick enough to be dropping weight because I couldn't eat - everything I put in my stomach made me incredibly nauseated. Took my primacy care doctor ordering an ultrasound of my gallbladder and a HIDA scan to tell me I needed emergency surgery because of the amount of stones. Surgery took 4 hours and I woke up with chronic pain in my right ribs. I've been partially bed-ridden since then, battling with UHC just to get splenetic (celiac plexus) blocks and a spinal cord stimulator trial done. Do I feel bad for the CEO's family? Yeah. For him? I haven't met my empathy deductible yet.
I spent a minute or two earlier feeling bad for the family. I was done, but how about I go back to it so you can concentrate on getting better instead?
@@bluepapaya77 that would be lovely.... if there was a "getting better"! Maybe if i were able to get the blocks or trial the stimulator, there would be a better!
The ultrasound was the proper first test for gallbladder pain, not a CT. However if you had gone in through the ER, the CT would have been immediately approved (all emergency services legally have to be covered immediately). OTOH, CT doesn't always show gallstones (they are often radiolucent), so the CT could have been nondiagnostic.
Are you sure you're an UHC customer? Did you choose to buy their insurance? Were you able to make a market driven choice or were you handed a piece of paper at your employer that told you to log onto the benefits portal and do your open enrollment?
Is violence only committed with a gun? I love that people are expanding this concept to the healthcare system and to the capitalist system as a whole. Engels on 'social murder': "when society places hundreds of proletarians in such a position that they inevitably meet a too early and an unnatural death, one which is quite as much a death by violence as that by the sword or bullet; when it deprives thousands of the necessaries of life, places them under conditions in which they cannot live - forces them, through the strong arm of the law, to remain in such conditions until that death ensues which is the inevitable consequence - knows that these thousands of victims must perish, and yet permits these conditions to remain, its deed is murder just as surely as the deed of the single individual"
The building class consciousness is beautiful to watch. And the normal attempts at trying to turn this back to left v right are failing (see all the "why are leftists cheering murder?" from right wing commentators, and their audiences cheering the murder instead of agreeing)
As a Canadian, My wife was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer 4 years ago, and after 5 major surgeries, radiation and chemo, she is still happy to be alive. In the USA she would either be dead or we would be in such enormous debt, that what sort of life would we be able to even live?
That’s the reality for most of us here. I’m lucky to be healthy, but I think almost daily about the fact that if something terrible happened health-wise I would be ruined.
Also in Canada- I've had two major, unrelated emergency visits this year, and I also have a chronic pain condition- I would be bankrupt many times over if I lived just a bit south and that's if I didn't die. Our healthcare system has its problems, but I sure as hell wouldn't trade it for the one our neighbours have to deal with.
That's just not true. I'm a colorectal surgeon in the US. Remember, ~40% of US healthcare is already socialized (Medicare and Medicaid, which cover all children, elderly, disabled, and poor... they deny plenty of stuff too BTW). For people that don't meet those qualifications and do not have insurance, their care ends up essentially free (or the charges are dropped to be in line with their income). This also applies to the ~ 20 million undocumented migrants in the US. Their care is free. I do many "no pay" cases per month. The costs are shifted to others (eg those that have insurance). That's one reason private insurance is more expensive than it should be. Dealing with the insurance plans is a PITA, but it's simply NOT TRUE that people just don't get treatment. Hospitals in the US provide ~42 Billion dollars a ready in uncompensated charity care. There are also Federal, state, and other charity clinics throughout the US. There are reasons that there are not riots in the streets over healthcare in the US, even though we've been told it's a "CRISIS" since 1985.
@@mbmurphy777 Assuming your stats are presented in good faith, let's put some context to the picture. Your surgical services might be no pay, but what about non-surgical care? Like the hospital stays to recover or medications in between treatments? 40% of care being covered by medicare/medicaid is a pointless statistic because it's not 40% of care costs for everyone, it's stepped so some people get 100% and some people get 0% Also also, nobody says you don't get treatment in the US, everyone agrees you can get treatment, it's just that you get treatment when you start bleeding all over the ER, and then when you die from the cancer, the hospital takes your house.
I don’t condone murder, especially being shot in the back, but I’m honestly surprised how long it took for something like this to happen. The healthcare system here has caused so much pain its ridiculous
This has been my thoughts as well, for being a country with a rebellious attitude since the war for independence that has incredible amounts of and access to guns it feels like it would be a common occurrence
Want fewer denials? Just increase the costs of insurance! But then people will complain about that. All healthcare systems deny care. They have too, including any socialized system. Medicare does. Medicaid does. British NHS does.
Thank you! I’m American but lived overseas for decades, and it makes me nuts that my fellow Americans think we need to reinvent the healthcare wheel. It would be so easy to look at countries that function well and replicate their system.
Define "function well". The problem is that so much of people's opinions about healthcare system quality is based purely on vibes. Lots of different countries have different types of problems. A tourist might be blown away at the quick and free treatment they get for a broken arm in a country with socialized healthcare, but somebody else living there with a chronic illness that is resource intensive to treat might find themselves constantly at odds with shortages and beaurocracy. In terms of healthcare outcomes and quality of service America's system is doing a lot better than many others. It's weird blend of insurance companies and government policies definitely has a lot of problems for sure.
@@roymarshall_ True as that may be, those problems are primarily a matter of _availability_ of service: funding, prioritizing, and having the necessary doctors and nurses to administer specific services. Based on my experience abroad as well as that of others I know, this is actually one area where the US does exceptionally _well-_ provided that your insurer allows you to use it. We have perhaps the greatest availability of care but the least access to it.
Like they’re right beside Canada! The Canadian system didn’t spring fully formed from the brow of Zeus - and it only came about in the 1960s, so there’s plenty of documentation about how to transition from a private insurance system to a public one.
Yeah I guess I didn’t even mention guns in this video…that’s a whole ‘nutha American topic. In this case a 3D printed one! With access to bullets and suppressor…
It's crazy you can 3D print one now, I remember years ago I think someone tried, the plastic wasn't thick enough or something. I'm not American, I don't have much knowledge of guns, fwiw.
Democracy is supposed to be the solution to systemic issues, not killing people until you get the change you want. But America's version of democracy isn't working and hasn't been for a long time, so violence is the fall back option (like your Kennedy quote suggests). If Britain wants to fix its healthcare system people should really look at proportional representation for their parliament. Somebody would do well to start a political party in Luigi Maglione's name.
No it's because people are easily placated and fooled. The current system makes it so you have to have the intelligence to vote tactically to gain constituencies, which limits the power of I like guy I vote dummies. So the Tories are currently having a crisis being their party was just split and their voters are those dummies.
Also we don't have a problem with companies sabotaging our health system we have a problem with the government sabotaging our health system (the Tories for 14 years of cuts).
As someone who works in the EHR space and who has worked in retail pharmacy... the difference between America's charging for meds (and healthcare in general) as I support multiple countries is totally depressing. Especially for oncologic meds. It's the most depraved sort of evil you can get. Telling elderly folks that they were in the Medicare "donut hole" made me cry multiple times as a non crier. PBMS supporting their own pharmacies only for max profit is depraved. I worry so much about patients, but also all clinicians.
That being said I am an American. The discussion this has sparked impacts me personally. I don't think anyone should be shot directly for what they are doing, but I think they should be held accountable. Profit focused healthcare has been the cause of death of so many Americans, and AI will be the death of American healthcare, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans themselves.
As a Canadian who was flown on the day of my birth to a different hospital in a different city, I would be dead if I was born in the USA. I don’t take where I was born for granted. Is ours perfect no, but the same problems we have here, they have in the USA AND they have to pay on top of all of it. I feel for all USA citizens stuck in that system. It is not going to get any easier in the next 4 years.
Yours was a voice I was hoping to hear from in this discussion, regardless of not being linked to the US 'healthcare system'. Thank you. I agree. I am not in the US, but the societal despair is palpable even here.
Businesses of all kinds need to wake up to the fact that they serve their communities, not their shareholders. There needs to be a radical restructuring of the economy.
@@meinname8933 Because companies impact the community whether they want to or not, and if they do it negatively then they get wackos or antitrusters in government and uncle teds and luigis in the streets
@@brianpratt3224 Rich people can be good. This is not a mutually exclusive thing. Now the United healthcare CEO was absolutely evil. He made his choices and look exactly where it left him. Rotting like the scum he is. Luigi is one of the good one's he fought for us. I will not hold his origin against him. The choices we make are what matters.
@@brianpratt3224 Being rich and being a good person is not mutually exclusive. Our choices still matter. Look where this CEO's choices left him rotting exactly where he deserves.
@@tommysalami420 my point is two people of the same class killing each other isn't a class war. Never said anything about good or bad or right or wrong.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." Damnit, you mention it towards the end. I should have just watched the video instead of sharing that fantastic quote. These CEOs have spent countless years and billions collectively to ensure that peaceful reform becomes impossible. Now they get to reap what they planted.
@@steoderfragt1821 So judicial killings are ok, then? Quite the morality. Are we talking about the same judiciary that has filled US prisons with a disproportionate number of blacks? The same judiciary that lets rich people get away with murder and locks up poor people for life on made up charges? The same judiciary that overturned Roe v. Wade? Such a great beacon of morality 🤣
Some elements of a functioning society cannot be run like a business. A business is not an inherently superior model. It shouldn’t be applied to things where maximizing profit fundamentally undermines the societal element. I believe healthcare is one of those things (prisons are another). You don’t get to pick and choose the conditions you get. You can pick and choose what risks to take, like smoking, volunteering to be in the armed forces, taking on activities that have elements of danger (like scuba diving or rock climbing). But you don’t choose what genetic conditions you have or illnesses that may occur spontaneously in later life like MS or ALS. You don’t choose to get struck by a drunk driver or your brain cells to turn into a glioblastoma. Treating such conditions is fundamentally different from picking what car to buy. If you don’t make Porsche money, you’re not getting a Porsche. If you’re born with type 1 diabetes though, you NEED insulin to live. You’re not paying an exorbitant price because you’re reckless with your budget, you’re paying an exorbitant price because a company literally has your life in their hands. As an American, I hope at least this solidarity continues and prevents the next administration from repealing the ACA and/or reintroducing high risk pools. I already pay a pretty penny because despite health insurance, I have a genetic condition for which my best treatment is from a specialist clinic that is out of network. I’m grateful I can afford that, but if high risk pools come back, this is going to make it much harder to afford. I also hope it opens people’s eyes to all the goddamn billionaires they voted into office who are hucking their wares and planning to make it easier to victimize the average person.
It wasn't a murder. It was an extrajudicial execution. He may not have invented the system, but he had the power to change it and didn't. In his career in high level management of Health Insurance, how many people do you think he killed by denying life saving procedures, and people dying from not getting the procedure or by self-euthanasia after getting overwhelmed by the debt created by their evil greed?
He didn't have the power to change it, even being at the top (he actually had another CEO above him btw) he would have been replaced. But just because he couldn't have changed the system it doesn't mean his assassination was unjustified. Democracy has broken down in the US, there is no other way.
Someone like the CEO actually doesn't have the power to change anything that would be meaningful. The real issue is companies set up in a way such that the CEOs are *legally required* to maximize shareholder profits. If a CEO tried to subvert a company they would simply be replaced and most likely face legal consequences, resulting in no change and just more turmoil
@@korakys If he does not have the power to change it, yet while having more than enough money, he kept staying in that position/job instead of quitting, that means he was either in favor, or didn't care. Or in short: No difference.
@@korakys "Just Following Orders" hasn't been an acceptable defense for a long time. Conspiracy to murder is still a crime. If you don't want to be convicted of crimes, don't be complicit in them.
It depends on what the claims are for. They aren't for lifesaving care, otherwise they would have been sued into oblivion by now. Yes, denials are a PITA. Yes, I hate dealing with them as a provider. But people aren't dying because of denials (many of which get reversed on appeal). That's important, because this unsupported contention is being used to support vigilante MURDER.
@@mbmurphy777 I had an abscess in my behind. It (probably) wouldn't have killed me, but I can tell you a lot about how uncomfortably it is. Are you advocating for a life-threatening/non-life-threatening criteria?
@@yottaforce i’ve never heard of any such thing being denied. An abscess would be easily classified as an emergency, especially in the rectal area. All Emergency care legally must be covered. I’ve never seen anything like that denied in my 25 years of surgical experience. I don’t want to be pushed into defending insurance companies because I hate dealing with them and they are a pain in the ass (sorry for the pun). I’m just saying that it’s simply not been my experience and I’ve never heard of an actual incidents of life-threatening care ever being denied for insurance reasons. That’s an important point because that “conventional wisdom” is being used to justify murder.
Brian Thompson was a mass murderer - he knew his actions were murdering tens of thousands, and he did not care. All those lives so he could have an extra yacht and mansion. We are told to abhor murderers, no? Oh wait, only the lowly ones, not the ones at the top of the ladder. He was not the engineer, but he reveled and relished in it. He wasn’t forced to be a tyrant, he chose to be one. All of these “oh, but murder is evil” takes misses the key point - his murder wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t choose and revel in this path. If murder is evil, then why was no justice served? Why wasn’t he arrested and tried for all the deaths he caused? When the foundations are this rotten, when justice only serves those who rot the system, dismantling the foundations becomes necessary. And there is no foundation more rotten in America than the healthcare industry.
@16:14 Why do all of these companies need to keep making record profits? It's not sustainable, it will end. Either with all of us standing up to them or all of us being drained dry.
@@Justanotherconsumer Then that needs to change or redefined to reasonable or sustainable profits. We can't keep maximizing everything year after year.
@@Justanotherconsumer1. No company is obligated to sell shares in the first place. 2. If the company still wants to sell shares but has a conscience problem with being forced to maximize profits, they could use some of their massive wealth to lobby for legal changes, no? 3. If UHC's denial decisions are inevitable because of their profit maximization obligation, how come other insurers have lower denial rates?
A valid complaint, but everyone seems to focus on profits and that's only part of the problem. The insurance companies employ roomfuls of people who argue with doctors in an effort to deny claims, and doctors are forced to employ staffers just to argue with insurance companies. The amount of money that's wasted on that is staggering.
I was trying to talk to my sister about ways people could springboard off the attention from this event to band together for nonviolent protest pushing for change and she just shut me down saying that it would never work. The absolute certainty she had that we can't do anything was depressing. I know a lot of people agree with her, but we aren't powerless and we don't have to resort to violence.
We don't have to resort to violence and they don't have to change. I'm not trying to be pedantic, I'm just trying to illustrate where we are at, and it seems to be an impasse. The fact that blue cross blue shield changed there tune right after the shooting and the fact that companies are hiding there CEOs shows that we only have a limited time to truly change anything before they find better ways to hide.
Yeah, the only thing that’s really changed is CEOs trying to scrub their info to be less easy to track down and kill. People keep jeering about how awful this CEO is. And I agree, he was complicit in a fundamentally unethical enterprise. But then why did so many people vote in a con man who does nothing BUT try to scam people? Why did they listen to a billionaire? Now we’re getting an administration where the members are either ultra rich or want to make it easier to victimize the average person, disguising it as choice. If you want to drink raw milk, you’re an idiot but it’s your body. That doesn’t mean deregulating raw milk promotes freedom. Elites want you to believe you’re powerless. Don’t let them get away with this shit! You don’t need a gun, you need a show of force and solidarity.
Probably because all the ways you gave are feelgood nonsense that doesn’t change anything. But makes you feel like you both support change, & are a “good person with morals.” “Vote for change” Both/all candidates support the system in place. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be allowed to be candidates. While I would never suggest that both are the same, there certainly are some things that neither aim to fix. “Peacefully protest” These companies do not value human life, you are an ant to them. Doesn’t matter how many ants you gather if all you’ll do is chant & sit. “Sign a petition” They will then put that petition in a shredder. “Strike” You’ll what? Not buy insurance? Good luck with that. All your peaceful ideas likely come with the assumption that they care. They don’t, which is why your sister disagrees. Appealing to the conscious of people who profit off human misery is a joke.
I live in Sweden and as many flaws our system has at times, long waiting time in the ER for example, it’s no where close to the American healthcare system. I realise how much I take for granted when it comes to my health care when I hear about shit that happens in the US. My friend has Schizophrenia and other issues, but the medicine is insanely expensive and I don’t think their insurance covers it either. It’s a disgusting system that care more for profit than for health.
As a fellow sweden resident working in medical field. Yeah, I see the constant push for better use of resources and saving money and so on. Every year it gets worse. The ER and mental health are the worst hit. But honestly, we're pretty well set. Our issues can be fixed in as little as five or six years with a dedicated focus and committed leaders. The american issue is... Deeply entrenched. It's cultural. It's changing into a system that none take for granted and would drive people out of homes due to redistributed costs. The changes would not stick unless gradual over decades.
Many many years ago a HGV driver told me the world would soon run by mega conglomerates. Over the past few years I've been watching with horror as corporate greed ruins everything. Profit first, above all else. A system can't have a conscience.
"Americans don't even want to attempt to reign in the unregulated capitalism in healthcare" That's categorically false- According to gallop 62% of Americans view healthcare as the government's responsibility, 51% view the Healthcare industry negatively, and 78% view the availability and affordability of healthcare as a problem worthy of a great deal/fair amount of concern. The American people want change, however our purchased officials, sorry, "elected officials" don't support changing the system since it is so profitable for their donors. THAT is why there was so much public support for Luigi
So... half of the people are okay with the healthcare industry? That's... pretty high lol. Good luck trying to get change when 40% of country doesn't agree that healthcare is government's responsibility when of the 60% that think it is, only part of them actually really care about the issue (after all, half the country apparently views healthcare industry neutrally or positively) and of those, people are split on how the system should be set up. Neither are nebulous policies passed in practice based on a national poll. That is not at all how the political system works.
You going fishing to find data you like doesn't mean your opinion is true. Ask how many Americans want their taxes to rise for healthcare, then you can see the true face of the american people. There is a reason people voted for Trump, a billionaire. He said everything is going to get cheaper, taxes and prices, that's what the people want.
But if they want that, why do they vote billionaires into political positions (rather than experienced and qualified professionals)? The incoming government is the exact example of people like this CEO. What they say in surveys is one thing but they need to vote and act accordingly. 🤦🏼♂️
@@GuruCube Because people are not logical. They do not vote for their best self-interest. Most people don't even want to have to think or have time, so their only peripheral information they gather is "the other side is bad because" and vote based on that. There is often very little belief that voting can actually change things anymore.
Eventually the bill comes due. Sometimes the price is staggeringly high. Sometimes the price is your life. In the US, the price is frequently your life, and more often your liberty or your dreams for the future. This is the way of the American life. Brits and Canadians are becoming more American by the day, too, so steel yourselves, my commonwealth brothers and sisters. You will soon occupy our shoes. You will pay the bill, too.
This will not change anything in healthcare. From the response it's clear that the only change will be that the government doubles down on surveillance and civil rights become more subject to discretion.
The American *PEOPLE* def want the insurance situation to change. The insurance companies who line the pockets of the Dems and Repubs do their best to make sure that doesn't happen. But us people are TIRED.
@@felixhenson9926 The Dr's joking that just because the deterioration started at the same time he graduated it's not because of him, and felix is poking fun that it is
All the people who haven't yet been screwed over by this industry have it looming large as a horrible threat in the US. I imagine since just getting by in the US is fraught to begin with, it's no wonder people across all groups tended to feel the same, everyone is affected the same
Dr. Rohan, i simply love you videos, perspectives, off-the-cuff rambles, i akways have. I'm a near middle aged aussie bloke who ditched academia for the hope of becoming a medical doctor (a psychiatrist, please judge me harshly & accordingly)-and for years, you fearlessly sharing your opinions have helped me understand the biggest side of medicine thst universities rarely teach with any depth or nuance; the raw undercurrent of medical politics. I really appreciate you Dr., always been inspired by you mate-however few and far between these videos are!
heya, wading in again with my ethics hat on (i remember having a short discussion in the comments with you regarding the ethics of organ donation once). there is a concept in literature and in ethical philosophy about "the banality of evil" that often within literature it is hard to create sincerely evil people that are grounded in the modern day because of how disconnected the hands of violence are now. if we wanted to show the grisly horror of war 100 years ago, you could depict someone charging down a machine gun next with a rifle with a bayonet on the end, praying they dont get hit by any of the shots and then jumping in there and gruesomely killing the person who just seconds ago seemed to have all the cards in their hand, if we transition to today, thats someone sitting at a desk with a small screen piloting a drone. the second example is much more poignant i find, it also mimics the power imbalance involved in this and also in the case of the US military against the various groups it fights (for better or worse) it also holds onto what political philosophers would say "the right to legitimate violence". i think the most important point to get to is that yes, in ethical philosophy, we would view these insurance companies as doers of violence and further we would pretty much condemn them in all cases as the reasoning behind said violence is "number go up, shareholders happy" and in ethical terms, that is very hard to justify (i imagine some bleeding heart free-market person would argue that "line goes up means quality of life generally goes up meaning more good" but that would be patently false given distribution of wealth is unequal). it is important to look at things through a capitalist and marxist lens, marx wrote about the alienation of labour, ie. the principle that due to capitalist production lines (or, in the modern office, email chains of advisors who have to approve things etc.) that no individual actually seems to be, or feels like, the individual who actually got things done, there were boards upon boards of people who likely made the cogs and levers set just so, and some were cynically maximising their profits, some may have thought they could change the system from the inside but given up at some stage and some may just be there because their dad put them there, and so it is hard to apportion blame in these instances as far as the ethical standpoint goes. all this said, however, i think we need to borrow former president Truman's desk decoration of "the buck stops here" that, yes, the CEO was not a micromanager who personally ticked no on everyone's request forms, he was probably just a businessman who was calloused to the evils being wrought by the company because he was raised in a country with such a system and spent i dont know how many years in said company. this is all me trying to be as un-personal in my opinion as possible, my actual opinion, using the old myth of the sword of damocles, these things must hang above the heads of all those who wish to exert power over others such that they understand that their position is not assured, you, rohin, need to know that you need to still be a good cardiologist in order to stay certified to practice, for instance, teachers need evaluation to make sure theyre still good teachers et cetera, et cetera. the sword starts as "you will just not have this role anymore" but when things come to a head and there is no means for the wider public to interface with abuses of power, something of this sort will happen. the same happens with police, when there is no oversight for police breaches of power, you see extreme examples of retaliation. my fear now is that all you will see is CEOs of large companies with massive security details and nothing will change in reality, i see no way for the US system to be reformed given the upcoming president's opinions. its much cheaper to hire a small army than it would be to reformulate into a fair system that wont continue to do harm, given how profitable violence can be. thanks for the video rohin, good to see you still create! sorry for the essay
Doctors and for profit hospitals themselves change their mindset of treatment based upon the feared rejection of health insurance claims. I was in hospital having a very bad Crohn's flare and the attending GI told me he would put me on rescue remicade but said that the pharmacy will deny it and they'd have to bring my case in front of a board to say why I needed it and he warned me unless I was about to loose my colon, it would be rejected. He didn't think I was quite there yet so it never happened. After a 2 week stay, I was released only to go downhill 5 days later. I decided to go to a not for profit, much larger, university hospital where after a scope, there was no question, I needed it. After 2 doses in 4 days, an additional scope revealed absolutely zero improvement and was given the bad news, there was nothing left to do and I needed my colon removed. Looking back, if that first hospital wouldn't have had insurance denials on their mind, would earlier intervention have resulted in me keeping my colon? That was me at 32 years old. Fit, top cyclist, now my quality of life, forever reduced because of subpar care due the dark cloud that hangs over doctors and hospital that is health insurance companies. Screw the US health system.
As a Canadian who's gone through leukemia and needed really expensive immunotherapy (I got curious at some point and asked how much it costed, and it was somewhere in the range of $250000), I have tons of sympathy for anyone caught up in the US healthcare system. I got diagnosed as a young adult and had I been in the US, I would've likely either entered life hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt (added to university), or would've straight up died.
To understood what an industry is all about ask yourself what would that CEO do that would get him fired from his job. If he said, "Sure quarterly profits are down but look at all lives I've saved" Would he still have a job? If instead he said, "Yeah, lots of people died but look at how much money we made." Hmmm....
It’s important to talk about this, and I’m glad you were able to contribute to the discussion. Hopefully this terrible event will motivate Americans to reevaluate their long-standing habituation to the way things are, and begin a path forward.
Every day they create more enemies for themselves and then they act surprised when one of their enemies goes and does exactly what they expected the whole time.
I co-run a fb endocarditis support group from Australia(I'm not and never have been an IVDU but thanks for asking) and not only shocked at the stories of the US medical system but the fact the majority of US group members not only have normalised but will defend it
Legalism is a terrible basis for ethics. I am personally deeply non-violent, bit I consider that to be a very fringe and radical position. I absolutely abhor all the hypocrits that claim to be non-violent while supporting state-sponsored violence (as most people do), and have far more respects for those who don’t share my nonviolent ideals but at least are somewhat honest about what they stand for.
If the democracy is never about the working class' problems. If the protests aren't heard, policymakers don't listen. Pretty sure a lot of people will give up on democracy for change.
I've lived in India and in Canada. I've been dealing with the healthcare system across both countries for years now because I have multiple chronic mental and physical health conditions. I have my opinions on healthcare in both countries, and how either could be improved. In Canada, where I am now, I Frequently complain about how hard it is to get a specialist referral or the hours and hours I've had to wait in the ER- but I would either be bankrupt or dead if I lived in the USA, and I don't take that for granted. I don't know if anyone anywhere is ever going to have a perfect healthcare system- but a for-profit system is never going to value the lives of consumers more than profit. I feel for Thompson's family, but I find it hard to have sympathy for the man himself.
During Hurricane Helene, American citizens were issuing threats to meteorological weather presenters on an alarming scale, because so many Americans believe the weather is controlled by scientists and their "wealthy backers". FEMA workers were threatened for trying to help citizens. We've never had crazies working in tandem on this big of a scale to affect how corporations reconsider their marketing tactics and reintroduce discrimination. This is in response to your question is this a sign of societal decay. If you've lived in the US, you've seen and lived it for at least the past two decades. I'm frankly surprised we're not worse off at this point.
My personal theory is the guy actually wanted to get caught. He had the ability to get away/leave the country etc. He wants for this to be captured by the media in America and publicized everywhere, in the way the American media does. The next OJ trial if you will. He wants the American public to be really really focused on the inequity of the US health system and maybe force change to the system. Maybe hes hopeful the US prison system will fix his health issues, if he even gets convicted and allowed to walk by the jury.
14:38 "Idk if this whole thing, executing a ceo, is indicative of some kind of societal decay beginning" one might argue that it's a continuation of the decay. The social contract was broken by the billionaire class, this is a reaction.
I live in Minnesota, where that company is located. One of my best friend works for them and when she started, the employees around her said that if you have ANY other option (like get on your spouses health insurance) to do so because their own health insurance was terrible. They're famously evil though I've known a lot of people who have worked there as they draw people in from IT gigs elsewhere. That all said, I am glad I'm on a social media break (except youtube) because those memes sound horrible. I'm a victim of endless insurance drama and I still don't want anyone unalived as a result. To not want others to suffer is/was....the "enlightenment" goal I thought, in my classic liberalism worldview. Guess modern life has gone astray.
It is a very curious incident, id argue first of its kind a western wealthy man being murdered for his "business actions". Part of me worries that this will lead to more part of me almost hopes it leads to something finally being done to bring power back down the ladder
LOL I am sadly a pre-authorization princess. This whole story hits so close to home for me, literally and figuratively. Not only do I pass by the hotel where the shooting occurred on my way to the hospital most mornings (i was thankfully in clinic that day), i also live blocks away from the hostel where the shooter stayed. Furthermore, i have been denied coverage by UHC of medication that i've needed since birth, and seen the prices on my medications almost double, despite the manufacturer of the drug themselves selling them direct to consumer for the base rate I've paid for >20 years (which is how i now get my medications, uninsured, and cheaper). I have to constantly work around my patients' insurance policies to cleverly piece together the best quality care i can possibly offer them, which often runs contrary to my medical knowledge and skills, all because some paper pusher at a corporate insurance company says, "nah." I implore you to speak to real people in the US rather than follow the news - there is a disturbing sensationalist narrative being pushed about online behavior on news outlets but I assure you, nobody in real life is celebrating this event, and the likelihood of copycat violence is extremely low (we are angry at CEOs who are making our lives harder - we don't want our lives to be harder, meaning, we dont want to go to prison. its pretty straightforward). That said, "murder is bad" is a moot point and it doesn't resonate among those of us (myself included) who are personally invested in this story. We in the US are desensitized to murder. Our kindergartners are murdered. Our mentally ill and suffering are murdered. Its devastating but its a fact of life that's as American as apple pie. I'm incredibly frustrated by the portrayal of our response to this event as "glee" and "celebration" of violence when it is instead a sense of unity and shared, collective grief that we have not felt in decades -- grief for our loved ones and our own health. This is a very strange feeling, since our awful healthcare business affects people on the left and on the right equally, and after a demoralizing and upsetting election season, maybe it does appear as joy that we are relating to one another but its certainly not a bloodthirsty party over the killing of Thompson. The fact that the media continues to hammer on this narrative of Americans rejoicing the killing of a man, rather than trying promote the difficult conversations around modifying our broken systems, is yet another among many colossal failures of shoddy American institutions. And those are my two cents, an embarrassing proportion of my paycheck, as a resident doctor (and former oncology nurse who is indeed familiar with gallows humor) in the US.
@12:00, "The Tyranny of Metrics" - Jerry Muller Not quite the same topic, but it does apply. A discussion about how when everything, even performance, is reduced to numbers and metrics, sometimes systems and people within them will resort to underhanded, unethical, (and in extreme cases, criminal) practices to fall within set parameters to meet their goals and quotas. And unfortunately, this is what unfettered capitalism does. It reduces everything to charts, graphs, metrics and numbers. Even human lives.
As someone from Denmark I have just heard story after story after story about how shit the insurance companies are in America so I can completely understand the reaction this has gotten and while yes it’s sad a person died but those companies have murdered so many people bc of denials :/
I'm currently training to go in social service work and from what i've noticed is that people who deal with human misery professionally (people in medicine, social work, activism et cetera) tend to have very gallows humour.
Initially I thought ppl were waking up then I realized there are too many distractions to go back to sleep. Numb we will remain. Something interesting about America is people are actually not that bad and as a result is easy to just accept things further desensitizing what one tolerates
The bright side of all of this is that the assassin didn't get the CEO mixed up with Brian Thompson, the actor. The original Fright Night II from the 80s was a great movie. He was great in Cobra too.
Its not that we dont ir night fight for it but thst they really fight for us not to have it. Not even to make to easier such as not having in/out networks . If you pay you should just get care. It's getting to the point that regular citizens are self caring or saving their money for their own care and just negotiating directly with the hospitals cause oftentimes. Hospitals and doctors are also hands tied in what kind. Of care. They can provide because of fighting with insurance.
I just got "United kingdom" auto translated in your certification...as UNIFIED KINGDOM (unified as united states of america and kingdom LITERALLY as if your country's name is kingdom😂😂) yeah no that's not the name of Great Britain in swedish Google...you should know that. It's Big-britain (Storbritannien)
As an Australian who is enjoying the best free healthcare in the world, I am glad that there is no violence, corporate or citizen retribution over here. If private health has failed, then we need public healthcare and vice versa. The system needs to be adaptive as long as it functions as it is supposed to, the privatization of health has become sales and profit driven even if it comes at the cost of the people. This needs to stop.
Every dollar earned in profit is a dollar not used to care for a sick person. That dollar of profit has far less value to society as a dividend payment than it does to having healthier citizens. For-profit health insurance companies have no social license to operate. Resources are finite and should be triaged according to medical ethics guidelines, not some stock market metrics.
Maybe the question is is the CEO of a health fund such as United Health Care more/less evil than a recently toppled dictator given what we know about the business model (deny,delay,depose) of that health fund or is the only difference that one does it for money/profit and the other does it for power?
I wonder about the different features between the first cctv pictures of the original shooter and Mangione. I wonder if he's being set up as the fall guy?
Wealth distribution can be considered as a moral question, like…. At what point does it become moral to forcibly take from those who have bent the laws of the land, in order to take all of the nation’s assets for themselves? For example, in Australia the highest 20% own 64% of our nation’s wealth, compared to the USA, where the top 1%own 31% of the USAs wealth Not an exact comparison, but the point is there. When is it moral for the slaves to revolt against those who have ‘legally’ stolen all rights and property?
I agree with everything you said, as well as a comment I saw yesterday which said, "If it's mandatory to pay for health 'insurance' it should be mandatory for them to fulfil your claim." Watch 'Capitalism - A Love Story' to see what's boiling in the pressure cooker.
If UHC were to use all of their profits and executive salaries, it would only allow for ~10% more health care than they already pay for. Does that change anything for you?
It is not about what is wrong. What is going on in USA is criminal. What UHS was doing was criminal. But it was also perfectly legal. So best situation would be that people like that go to jail. Or even better, are rehabilitated, even better, are prevented from doing harm. The thing is, we all know none of the above is going to happen. People would keep dying as intended. What happen is the least bad thing that could happen to that guy, this is just how bad things are as far as I understand. Something is very broken. But yes, something is very broken.
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
I know the public reaction atm is mostly lusting after a hot assassin and I’m sure a low effort Ssniperwolf style reacting-to-memes video would’ve been more entertaining, but not especially professional from a doctor. The memes are unreal though. First to the CEO down news and then the thirst tsunami. I was a little concerned that I would need to change my profile pic when the first shot of a heavy eyebrowed man with a surgical mask emerged, but once his face was revealed I could rest assured in the knowledge that I’m far less attractive, phew!
I look at it this way, it was a personal issue between the shooter and the CEO.
And considering the US is a nation with a mental health care and gun crisis I'm not sure I can call the CEO a victim of anything other than his own stupidity.
I think a lot of people are viewing it as vigilante justice which is obviously a stark contrast to higher profile individuals pushing it as cold blooded murder and, yes it is murder but given the circumstances in the US right now you can see how people would be more sympathetic to the shooter on top of the social media reaction being hot italian thirst trap and mafia memes but that is just how things go these days. I think if it had been anyone else, even just another CEO and not a healthcare insurance CEO, the reaction would've probably been a lot more grounded beyond the "eat the rich" crowd. Still a bit funny though.
Very good video, I found myself asking the same questions after the response from the public
So I'm a surgeon in the US. I deal with denials and insurance issues from all insurers... including Medicare and Medicaid (socialized government healthcare that covers about 40% of the US healthcare market, including all children, the poor, the elderly, and the disabled). Denials are annoying and time-consuming, but that's about it.
Also, all emergency care for the uninsured in the US and also for ~20 million migrants is provided for free (cost shifted to others basically).
I have never ONCE seen a case where a lifesaving treatment was withheld for insurance reasons.
The reason is obvious. Any wrongful death case would end up in a multimillion dollar lawsuit. Just like a medical malpractice case. If hundreds of people were dying per day because of insurance denials, the courts would be packed with those cases.
All systems have to ration care. In fact, most private insurances in the US are more permissive than some of the national healthcare systems in other countries.
Denials I deal with generally involve:
MRIs (they require a CT or US first... annoying but not unreasonable)
Certain medications when other equivalent meds are on their formulary
Unproven or experimental medications
I have never had any operation denied (I do general and colorectal surgery).
I think the "Insurance companies are killing people" is echo-chamber conventional wisdom for which I have not seen evidence. And I've been practicing >25 years. If the evidence exists, please someone demonstrate it. I suppose that there may be some isolated examples, but no way are we talking "hundreds of people per day". The lawyers would have a field day, and the insurance companies know that.
@@mbmurphy777 Yeah, of course YOU wanna defend the insurance companies. They pay your wages. (usually, when they feel like it)
Now go and tell that same thing to my mom that held off on treatments because Walmart's health insurance is shit, and then they fired her when they found out she had cancer. Of course its not the insurance companies fault she didn't go to the doctor and get what seemed like a mild pain check out earlier. Its all her fault right... right? The crippling debt is designed to scare people away from getting treatment.
Oh right you cant tell her that, because she is DEAD.
How do we know that Thompson died from a bullet? He might have had a pre-existing condition.
...absolutely....
yeah, we need to wait for the toxicology report. after all, he was no angel.
lol...he had covid...
Found the doors
I totally understand your comment.
I'm a UHC customer. I had to have my gallbladder out. UHC denied the CT abdomen my gastroenterologist ordered because I hadn't had a colonoscopy. At the time I was 33 years old. Why I did need a bloody colonoscopy?! I was sick enough to be dropping weight because I couldn't eat - everything I put in my stomach made me incredibly nauseated. Took my primacy care doctor ordering an ultrasound of my gallbladder and a HIDA scan to tell me I needed emergency surgery because of the amount of stones. Surgery took 4 hours and I woke up with chronic pain in my right ribs. I've been partially bed-ridden since then, battling with UHC just to get splenetic (celiac plexus) blocks and a spinal cord stimulator trial done.
Do I feel bad for the CEO's family? Yeah. For him? I haven't met my empathy deductible yet.
I spent a minute or two earlier feeling bad for the family. I was done, but how about I go back to it so you can concentrate on getting better instead?
@@bluepapaya77 that would be lovely.... if there was a "getting better"! Maybe if i were able to get the blocks or trial the stimulator, there would be a better!
They lives in separate houses, probably he was an asshole.
The ultrasound was the proper first test for gallbladder pain, not a CT. However if you had gone in through the ER, the CT would have been immediately approved (all emergency services legally have to be covered immediately). OTOH, CT doesn't always show gallstones (they are often radiolucent), so the CT could have been nondiagnostic.
Are you sure you're an UHC customer? Did you choose to buy their insurance? Were you able to make a market driven choice or were you handed a piece of paper at your employer that told you to log onto the benefits portal and do your open enrollment?
The title and thumbnail make it seem like an apology video by Luigi and it's killing me 💀💀
Is violence only committed with a gun? I love that people are expanding this concept to the healthcare system and to the capitalist system as a whole. Engels on 'social murder': "when society places hundreds of proletarians in such a position that they inevitably meet a too early and an unnatural death, one which is quite as much a death by violence as that by the sword or bullet; when it deprives thousands of the necessaries of life, places them under conditions in which they cannot live - forces them, through the strong arm of the law, to remain in such conditions until that death ensues which is the inevitable consequence - knows that these thousands of victims must perish, and yet permits these conditions to remain, its deed is murder just as surely as the deed of the single individual"
Humanity has been through so much and yet its history just keeps on repeating like a broken machine in which humans are the clogs.
The building class consciousness is beautiful to watch. And the normal attempts at trying to turn this back to left v right are failing (see all the "why are leftists cheering murder?" from right wing commentators, and their audiences cheering the murder instead of agreeing)
As a Canadian, My wife was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer 4 years ago, and after 5 major surgeries, radiation and chemo, she is still happy to be alive. In the USA she would either be dead or we would be in such enormous debt, that what sort of life would we be able to even live?
In the US, we are the products. We are only kept alive to continue funding the healthcare industry.
That’s the reality for most of us here. I’m lucky to be healthy, but I think almost daily about the fact that if something terrible happened health-wise I would be ruined.
Also in Canada- I've had two major, unrelated emergency visits this year, and I also have a chronic pain condition- I would be bankrupt many times over if I lived just a bit south and that's if I didn't die. Our healthcare system has its problems, but I sure as hell wouldn't trade it for the one our neighbours have to deal with.
That's just not true. I'm a colorectal surgeon in the US. Remember, ~40% of US healthcare is already socialized (Medicare and Medicaid, which cover all children, elderly, disabled, and poor... they deny plenty of stuff too BTW). For people that don't meet those qualifications and do not have insurance, their care ends up essentially free (or the charges are dropped to be in line with their income). This also applies to the ~ 20 million undocumented migrants in the US. Their care is free.
I do many "no pay" cases per month. The costs are shifted to others (eg those that have insurance). That's one reason private insurance is more expensive than it should be.
Dealing with the insurance plans is a PITA, but it's simply NOT TRUE that people just don't get treatment.
Hospitals in the US provide ~42 Billion dollars a ready in uncompensated charity care.
There are also Federal, state, and other charity clinics throughout the US.
There are reasons that there are not riots in the streets over healthcare in the US, even though we've been told it's a "CRISIS" since 1985.
@@mbmurphy777
Assuming your stats are presented in good faith, let's put some context to the picture.
Your surgical services might be no pay, but what about non-surgical care? Like the hospital stays to recover or medications in between treatments?
40% of care being covered by medicare/medicaid is a pointless statistic because it's not 40% of care costs for everyone, it's stepped so some people get 100% and some people get 0%
Also also, nobody says you don't get treatment in the US, everyone agrees you can get treatment, it's just that you get treatment when you start bleeding all over the ER, and then when you die from the cancer, the hospital takes your house.
When the rich let people the poor die, it's business. When the poor make the rich die, it's a crime. Brian has so much blood on his hands.
I would have to agree
He wasn't poor though.
So true. Same goes for american and uk foreign policy funding wars and killing poor ppl overseas
@@Vaslof he is compared to the 0.01%
@@MedlifeCrisis It's important to realize that violence is wrong...but equally important to realize that institutional violence is still violence.
I don’t condone murder, especially being shot in the back, but I’m honestly surprised how long it took for something like this to happen. The healthcare system here has caused so much pain its ridiculous
This has been my thoughts as well, for being a country with a rebellious attitude since the war for independence that has incredible amounts of and access to guns it feels like it would be a common occurrence
This was murder in the same way that Darth Vader murdered the Emperor
Insurance =/= Healthcare
The company in question is **called** United Healthcare. It is insurance companies that have had this coming.
Want fewer denials? Just increase the costs of insurance! But then people will complain about that. All healthcare systems deny care. They have too, including any socialized system. Medicare does. Medicaid does. British NHS does.
Why don't you condone murder? That is a weird perspective.
Thank you! I’m American but lived overseas for decades, and it makes me nuts that my fellow Americans think we need to reinvent the healthcare wheel. It would be so easy to look at countries that function well and replicate their system.
Define "function well". The problem is that so much of people's opinions about healthcare system quality is based purely on vibes. Lots of different countries have different types of problems. A tourist might be blown away at the quick and free treatment they get for a broken arm in a country with socialized healthcare, but somebody else living there with a chronic illness that is resource intensive to treat might find themselves constantly at odds with shortages and beaurocracy. In terms of healthcare outcomes and quality of service America's system is doing a lot better than many others. It's weird blend of insurance companies and government policies definitely has a lot of problems for sure.
@@roymarshall_ True as that may be, those problems are primarily a matter of _availability_ of service: funding, prioritizing, and having the necessary doctors and nurses to administer specific services. Based on my experience abroad as well as that of others I know, this is actually one area where the US does exceptionally _well-_ provided that your insurer allows you to use it. We have perhaps the greatest availability of care but the least access to it.
Ahhhh....but that would take Americans to realize they aren't the whole world.
Like they’re right beside Canada! The Canadian system didn’t spring fully formed from the brow of Zeus - and it only came about in the 1960s, so there’s plenty of documentation about how to transition from a private insurance system to a public one.
German has a word for people like that ceo, Schreibtischtäter. It means desk perpetrator.
Last time i was this early, the United CEO didn't have a lead allergy
too soon? nahh
@@Zgembo121not if you’re a liberal
@@Rollacoastertycoonthis isn't about being on the left or the right. Don't side with the 1%, they don't care about you bro.
That's just his immune system automatically rejecting any incoming claims.
@@Rollacoastertycoon I've seen both sides writing stuff like that. this turned out to be the one thing everyone agrees about. Luigi for president?
American problems require American solutions...
American solutions fail for ignoring others lessons
Yeah I guess I didn’t even mention guns in this video…that’s a whole ‘nutha American topic. In this case a 3D printed one! With access to bullets and suppressor…
It's crazy you can 3D print one now, I remember years ago I think someone tried, the plastic wasn't thick enough or something. I'm not American, I don't have much knowledge of guns, fwiw.
@@MedlifeCrisis .
The total cost of firearm related injuries and deaths in the U.S. for 2020 was $493.2 billion.
@@grahvis But it's all worth it because it prevented at least one guy's TV from being stolen.
(/s in case it's nor obvious)
Democracy is supposed to be the solution to systemic issues, not killing people until you get the change you want. But America's version of democracy isn't working and hasn't been for a long time, so violence is the fall back option (like your Kennedy quote suggests). If Britain wants to fix its healthcare system people should really look at proportional representation for their parliament.
Somebody would do well to start a political party in Luigi Maglione's name.
No it's because people are easily placated and fooled. The current system makes it so you have to have the intelligence to vote tactically to gain constituencies, which limits the power of I like guy I vote dummies. So the Tories are currently having a crisis being their party was just split and their voters are those dummies.
Also we don't have a problem with companies sabotaging our health system we have a problem with the government sabotaging our health system (the Tories for 14 years of cuts).
As someone who works in the EHR space and who has worked in retail pharmacy... the difference between America's charging for meds (and healthcare in general) as I support multiple countries is totally depressing. Especially for oncologic meds. It's the most depraved sort of evil you can get. Telling elderly folks that they were in the Medicare "donut hole" made me cry multiple times as a non crier. PBMS supporting their own pharmacies only for max profit is depraved. I worry so much about patients, but also all clinicians.
That being said I am an American. The discussion this has sparked impacts me personally. I don't think anyone should be shot directly for what they are doing, but I think they should be held accountable. Profit focused healthcare has been the cause of death of so many Americans, and AI will be the death of American healthcare, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans themselves.
As a Canadian who was flown on the day of my birth to a different hospital in a different city, I would be dead if I was born in the USA. I don’t take where I was born for granted. Is ours perfect no, but the same problems we have here, they have in the USA AND they have to pay on top of all of it. I feel for all USA citizens stuck in that system. It is not going to get any easier in the next 4 years.
Probably not dead. Your parents may have gone deeply into debt though.
Yours was a voice I was hoping to hear from in this discussion, regardless of not being linked to the US 'healthcare system'. Thank you. I agree. I am not in the US, but the societal despair is palpable even here.
Businesses of all kinds need to wake up to the fact that they serve their communities, not their shareholders. There needs to be a radical restructuring of the economy.
Hello,
I share your sentiment, but why would a business vouluntarily serve the community?
@@meinname8933 Because companies impact the community whether they want to or not, and if they do it negatively then they get wackos or antitrusters in government and uncle teds and luigis in the streets
@@meinname8933 Because they are composed of people who make up the community.
@@meinname8933 Maybe if Brian served the community he'd have had a different fate.
Begun, the class wars have.
Already was happening we just weren't fighting back. Now they shall know hell
Well the assassin was a rich guy too
@@brianpratt3224 Rich people can be good. This is not a mutually exclusive thing.
Now the United healthcare CEO was absolutely evil. He made his choices and look exactly where it left him. Rotting like the scum he is. Luigi is one of the good one's he fought for us. I will not hold his origin against him.
The choices we make are what matters.
@@brianpratt3224 Being rich and being a good person is not mutually exclusive. Our choices still matter.
Look where this CEO's choices left him rotting exactly where he deserves.
@@tommysalami420 my point is two people of the same class killing each other isn't a class war. Never said anything about good or bad or right or wrong.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
Damnit, you mention it towards the end. I should have just watched the video instead of sharing that fantastic quote. These CEOs have spent countless years and billions collectively to ensure that peaceful reform becomes impossible. Now they get to reap what they planted.
I'm gonna need prior authorization to feel real empathy for him.
And I'm going to need the deductible being met and the copay. Before services are rendered
You actually don't need to feel empathy for him to condemn extrajudicial killings, you should have a basic grasp of morality.
I'm sorry, that's not included in the plan. Neither is dental, because those are clearly just for cosmetic purposes.
@@steoderfragt1821
So judicial killings are ok, then? Quite the morality.
Are we talking about the same judiciary that has filled US prisons with a disproportionate number of blacks?
The same judiciary that lets rich people get away with murder and locks up poor people for life on made up charges?
The same judiciary that overturned Roe v. Wade?
Such a great beacon of morality 🤣
@steoderfragt1821
Should I feel bad for war criminals and child molosters too?
Some elements of a functioning society cannot be run like a business. A business is not an inherently superior model. It shouldn’t be applied to things where maximizing profit fundamentally undermines the societal element. I believe healthcare is one of those things (prisons are another).
You don’t get to pick and choose the conditions you get. You can pick and choose what risks to take, like smoking, volunteering to be in the armed forces, taking on activities that have elements of danger (like scuba diving or rock climbing). But you don’t choose what genetic conditions you have or illnesses that may occur spontaneously in later life like MS or ALS. You don’t choose to get struck by a drunk driver or your brain cells to turn into a glioblastoma.
Treating such conditions is fundamentally different from picking what car to buy. If you don’t make Porsche money, you’re not getting a Porsche.
If you’re born with type 1 diabetes though, you NEED insulin to live. You’re not paying an exorbitant price because you’re reckless with your budget, you’re paying an exorbitant price because a company literally has your life in their hands.
As an American, I hope at least this solidarity continues and prevents the next administration from repealing the ACA and/or reintroducing high risk pools. I already pay a pretty penny because despite health insurance, I have a genetic condition for which my best treatment is from a specialist clinic that is out of network. I’m grateful I can afford that, but if high risk pools come back, this is going to make it much harder to afford.
I also hope it opens people’s eyes to all the goddamn billionaires they voted into office who are hucking their wares and planning to make it easier to victimize the average person.
It wasn't a murder. It was an extrajudicial execution. He may not have invented the system, but he had the power to change it and didn't. In his career in high level management of Health Insurance, how many people do you think he killed by denying life saving procedures, and people dying from not getting the procedure or by self-euthanasia after getting overwhelmed by the debt created by their evil greed?
He didn't have the power to change it, even being at the top (he actually had another CEO above him btw) he would have been replaced. But just because he couldn't have changed the system it doesn't mean his assassination was unjustified. Democracy has broken down in the US, there is no other way.
His plea will be health defence.
Someone like the CEO actually doesn't have the power to change anything that would be meaningful. The real issue is companies set up in a way such that the CEOs are *legally required* to maximize shareholder profits. If a CEO tried to subvert a company they would simply be replaced and most likely face legal consequences, resulting in no change and just more turmoil
@@korakys If he does not have the power to change it, yet while having more than enough money, he kept staying in that position/job instead of quitting, that means he was either in favor, or didn't care. Or in short: No difference.
@@korakys "Just Following Orders" hasn't been an acceptable defense for a long time. Conspiracy to murder is still a crime. If you don't want to be convicted of crimes, don't be complicit in them.
Really helpful for USA-ians to hear from a professional from a nation with universal healthcare.
For all it's flaws, viva la NHS
United Healthcare is the largest health insurer in the US. They reject one of every three claims. That is just insane.
It depends on what the claims are for. They aren't for lifesaving care, otherwise they would have been sued into oblivion by now. Yes, denials are a PITA. Yes, I hate dealing with them as a provider.
But people aren't dying because of denials (many of which get reversed on appeal). That's important, because this unsupported contention is being used to support vigilante MURDER.
@@mbmurphy777 I had an abscess in my behind. It (probably) wouldn't have killed me, but I can tell you a lot about how uncomfortably it is. Are you advocating for a life-threatening/non-life-threatening criteria?
@@yottaforce i’ve never heard of any such thing being denied. An abscess would be easily classified as an emergency, especially in the rectal area. All Emergency care legally must be covered. I’ve never seen anything like that denied in my 25 years of surgical experience.
I don’t want to be pushed into defending insurance companies because I hate dealing with them and they are a pain in the ass (sorry for the pun). I’m just saying that it’s simply not been my experience and I’ve never heard of an actual incidents of life-threatening care ever being denied for insurance reasons.
That’s an important point because that “conventional wisdom” is being used to justify murder.
Brian Thompson was a mass murderer - he knew his actions were murdering tens of thousands, and he did not care. All those lives so he could have an extra yacht and mansion. We are told to abhor murderers, no? Oh wait, only the lowly ones, not the ones at the top of the ladder. He was not the engineer, but he reveled and relished in it. He wasn’t forced to be a tyrant, he chose to be one. All of these “oh, but murder is evil” takes misses the key point - his murder wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t choose and revel in this path. If murder is evil, then why was no justice served? Why wasn’t he arrested and tried for all the deaths he caused?
When the foundations are this rotten, when justice only serves those who rot the system, dismantling the foundations becomes necessary. And there is no foundation more rotten in America than the healthcare industry.
@16:14 Why do all of these companies need to keep making record profits? It's not sustainable, it will end. Either with all of us standing up to them or all of us being drained dry.
They have a legal obligation to maximize value for their shareholders.
@@Justanotherconsumer Then that needs to change or redefined to reasonable or sustainable profits. We can't keep maximizing everything year after year.
@@Justanotherconsumer1. No company is obligated to sell shares in the first place.
2. If the company still wants to sell shares but has a conscience problem with being forced to maximize profits, they could use some of their massive wealth to lobby for legal changes, no?
3. If UHC's denial decisions are inevitable because of their profit maximization obligation, how come other insurers have lower denial rates?
They need infinite growth to survive in capitalism
A valid complaint, but everyone seems to focus on profits and that's only part of the problem. The insurance companies employ roomfuls of people who argue with doctors in an effort to deny claims, and doctors are forced to employ staffers just to argue with insurance companies. The amount of money that's wasted on that is staggering.
I was trying to talk to my sister about ways people could springboard off the attention from this event to band together for nonviolent protest pushing for change and she just shut me down saying that it would never work. The absolute certainty she had that we can't do anything was depressing. I know a lot of people agree with her, but we aren't powerless and we don't have to resort to violence.
We don't have to resort to violence and they don't have to change. I'm not trying to be pedantic, I'm just trying to illustrate where we are at, and it seems to be an impasse. The fact that blue cross blue shield changed there tune right after the shooting and the fact that companies are hiding there CEOs shows that we only have a limited time to truly change anything before they find better ways to hide.
Yeah, the only thing that’s really changed is CEOs trying to scrub their info to be less easy to track down and kill.
People keep jeering about how awful this CEO is. And I agree, he was complicit in a fundamentally unethical enterprise.
But then why did so many people vote in a con man who does nothing BUT try to scam people? Why did they listen to a billionaire? Now we’re getting an administration where the members are either ultra rich or want to make it easier to victimize the average person, disguising it as choice. If you want to drink raw milk, you’re an idiot but it’s your body. That doesn’t mean deregulating raw milk promotes freedom.
Elites want you to believe you’re powerless. Don’t let them get away with this shit! You don’t need a gun, you need a show of force and solidarity.
A movement needs a good slogan like "Health Defence".
Probably because all the ways you gave are feelgood nonsense that doesn’t change anything. But makes you feel like you both support change, & are a “good person with morals.”
“Vote for change”
Both/all candidates support the system in place. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be allowed to be candidates. While I would never suggest that both are the same, there certainly are some things that neither aim to fix.
“Peacefully protest”
These companies do not value human life, you are an ant to them. Doesn’t matter how many ants you gather if all you’ll do is chant & sit.
“Sign a petition”
They will then put that petition in a shredder.
“Strike”
You’ll what? Not buy insurance? Good luck with that.
All your peaceful ideas likely come with the assumption that they care. They don’t, which is why your sister disagrees. Appealing to the conscious of people who profit off human misery is a joke.
2 videos in a month? Seriously though, I am glad for your thoughts.
I live in Sweden and as many flaws our system has at times, long waiting time in the ER for example, it’s no where close to the American healthcare system.
I realise how much I take for granted when it comes to my health care when I hear about shit that happens in the US. My friend has Schizophrenia and other issues, but the medicine is insanely expensive and I don’t think their insurance covers it either. It’s a disgusting system that care more for profit than for health.
As a fellow sweden resident working in medical field. Yeah, I see the constant push for better use of resources and saving money and so on. Every year it gets worse. The ER and mental health are the worst hit. But honestly, we're pretty well set. Our issues can be fixed in as little as five or six years with a dedicated focus and committed leaders. The american issue is... Deeply entrenched. It's cultural. It's changing into a system that none take for granted and would drive people out of homes due to redistributed costs. The changes would not stick unless gradual over decades.
Many many years ago a HGV driver told me the world would soon run by mega conglomerates.
Over the past few years I've been watching with horror as corporate greed ruins everything.
Profit first, above all else. A system can't have a conscience.
Cyberpunk dystopias were supposed to be a warning - not a blueprint.
"Americans don't even want to attempt to reign in the unregulated capitalism in healthcare"
That's categorically false- According to gallop 62% of Americans view healthcare as the government's responsibility, 51% view the Healthcare industry negatively, and 78% view the availability and affordability of healthcare as a problem worthy of a great deal/fair amount of concern.
The American people want change, however our purchased officials, sorry, "elected officials" don't support changing the system since it is so profitable for their donors.
THAT is why there was so much public support for Luigi
So... half of the people are okay with the healthcare industry? That's... pretty high lol. Good luck trying to get change when 40% of country doesn't agree that healthcare is government's responsibility when of the 60% that think it is, only part of them actually really care about the issue (after all, half the country apparently views healthcare industry neutrally or positively) and of those, people are split on how the system should be set up. Neither are nebulous policies passed in practice based on a national poll. That is not at all how the political system works.
Agreed, the people want change but the political system is totally broken.
You going fishing to find data you like doesn't mean your opinion is true. Ask how many Americans want their taxes to rise for healthcare, then you can see the true face of the american people. There is a reason people voted for Trump, a billionaire. He said everything is going to get cheaper, taxes and prices, that's what the people want.
But if they want that, why do they vote billionaires into political positions (rather than experienced and qualified professionals)? The incoming government is the exact example of people like this CEO.
What they say in surveys is one thing but they need to vote and act accordingly. 🤦🏼♂️
@@GuruCube Because people are not logical. They do not vote for their best self-interest. Most people don't even want to have to think or have time, so their only peripheral information they gather is "the other side is bad because" and vote based on that. There is often very little belief that voting can actually change things anymore.
Eventually the bill comes due. Sometimes the price is staggeringly high. Sometimes the price is your life. In the US, the price is frequently your life, and more often your liberty or your dreams for the future. This is the way of the American life. Brits and Canadians are becoming more American by the day, too, so steel yourselves, my commonwealth brothers and sisters. You will soon occupy our shoes. You will pay the bill, too.
Poetic in an awful way.
This will not change anything in healthcare. From the response it's clear that the only change will be that the government doubles down on surveillance and civil rights become more subject to discretion.
The American *PEOPLE* def want the insurance situation to change. The insurance companies who line the pockets of the Dems and Repubs do their best to make sure that doesn't happen.
But us people are TIRED.
He was caught in Luigi’s Mansion?, seriously?😭😭😂😂
Finally someone said it.
Everyone was thinking about this joke.
The CEO made millions denying care to customers. How far removed from causing death and pain do you need to be not be responsible.
5:22 Sure, whatever let's you sleep at night.
we all heard it here, medlife crisis sunk the UK healthcare system
explain?
@felixhenson9926 I (jestingly) propose that correlation does imply causation here.
@@felixhenson9926 The Dr's joking that just because the deterioration started at the same time he graduated it's not because of him, and felix is poking fun that it is
Quick video : 20 minutes
Quicker than an e-bike ride through Central Park
It would have been shorter but he didn’t have time.
That iPhone part was sad, I thought he was an actual anti capitalist
you know you've encountered a cardiologist when the guy has an ekg caliper on his id lace 😂
2:08 If the widespread glee at the CEO's death shocked you, you can't have been following healthcare in the US that closely.
All the people who haven't yet been screwed over by this industry have it looming large as a horrible threat in the US.
I imagine since just getting by in the US is fraught to begin with, it's no wonder people across all groups tended to feel the same, everyone is affected the same
Dr. Rohan, i simply love you videos, perspectives, off-the-cuff rambles, i akways have. I'm a near middle aged aussie bloke who ditched academia for the hope of becoming a medical doctor (a psychiatrist, please judge me harshly & accordingly)-and for years, you fearlessly sharing your opinions have helped me understand the biggest side of medicine thst universities rarely teach with any depth or nuance; the raw undercurrent of medical politics.
I really appreciate you Dr., always been inspired by you mate-however few and far between these videos are!
heya, wading in again with my ethics hat on (i remember having a short discussion in the comments with you regarding the ethics of organ donation once).
there is a concept in literature and in ethical philosophy about "the banality of evil" that often within literature it is hard to create sincerely evil people that are grounded in the modern day because of how disconnected the hands of violence are now. if we wanted to show the grisly horror of war 100 years ago, you could depict someone charging down a machine gun next with a rifle with a bayonet on the end, praying they dont get hit by any of the shots and then jumping in there and gruesomely killing the person who just seconds ago seemed to have all the cards in their hand, if we transition to today, thats someone sitting at a desk with a small screen piloting a drone.
the second example is much more poignant i find, it also mimics the power imbalance involved in this and also in the case of the US military against the various groups it fights (for better or worse) it also holds onto what political philosophers would say "the right to legitimate violence". i think the most important point to get to is that yes, in ethical philosophy, we would view these insurance companies as doers of violence and further we would pretty much condemn them in all cases as the reasoning behind said violence is "number go up, shareholders happy" and in ethical terms, that is very hard to justify (i imagine some bleeding heart free-market person would argue that "line goes up means quality of life generally goes up meaning more good" but that would be patently false given distribution of wealth is unequal).
it is important to look at things through a capitalist and marxist lens, marx wrote about the alienation of labour, ie. the principle that due to capitalist production lines (or, in the modern office, email chains of advisors who have to approve things etc.) that no individual actually seems to be, or feels like, the individual who actually got things done, there were boards upon boards of people who likely made the cogs and levers set just so, and some were cynically maximising their profits, some may have thought they could change the system from the inside but given up at some stage and some may just be there because their dad put them there, and so it is hard to apportion blame in these instances as far as the ethical standpoint goes. all this said, however, i think we need to borrow former president Truman's desk decoration of "the buck stops here" that, yes, the CEO was not a micromanager who personally ticked no on everyone's request forms, he was probably just a businessman who was calloused to the evils being wrought by the company because he was raised in a country with such a system and spent i dont know how many years in said company.
this is all me trying to be as un-personal in my opinion as possible, my actual opinion, using the old myth of the sword of damocles, these things must hang above the heads of all those who wish to exert power over others such that they understand that their position is not assured, you, rohin, need to know that you need to still be a good cardiologist in order to stay certified to practice, for instance, teachers need evaluation to make sure theyre still good teachers et cetera, et cetera. the sword starts as "you will just not have this role anymore" but when things come to a head and there is no means for the wider public to interface with abuses of power, something of this sort will happen. the same happens with police, when there is no oversight for police breaches of power, you see extreme examples of retaliation.
my fear now is that all you will see is CEOs of large companies with massive security details and nothing will change in reality, i see no way for the US system to be reformed given the upcoming president's opinions. its much cheaper to hire a small army than it would be to reformulate into a fair system that wont continue to do harm, given how profitable violence can be.
thanks for the video rohin, good to see you still create! sorry for the essay
The system we live in is unable and unwilling to undergo the change we need. So long as that doesn't change, the pressure will keep building.
6:19 slight correction, Americans do, Our Politians and Fox News don't
I think if you're on the run after murdering someone your options aren't incredibly vast for dining. That's a pretty dumb dig.
Yeah I don't understand the point of this video. Pretty disappointing.
Gia Tolentino's ending had an interesting little nugget - "stakeholders"
yeaaaah riiiiight
Doctors and for profit hospitals themselves change their mindset of treatment based upon the feared rejection of health insurance claims. I was in hospital having a very bad Crohn's flare and the attending GI told me he would put me on rescue remicade but said that the pharmacy will deny it and they'd have to bring my case in front of a board to say why I needed it and he warned me unless I was about to loose my colon, it would be rejected. He didn't think I was quite there yet so it never happened. After a 2 week stay, I was released only to go downhill 5 days later.
I decided to go to a not for profit, much larger, university hospital where after a scope, there was no question, I needed it. After 2 doses in 4 days, an additional scope revealed absolutely zero improvement and was given the bad news, there was nothing left to do and I needed my colon removed. Looking back, if that first hospital wouldn't have had insurance denials on their mind, would earlier intervention have resulted in me keeping my colon? That was me at 32 years old. Fit, top cyclist, now my quality of life, forever reduced because of subpar care due the dark cloud that hangs over doctors and hospital that is health insurance companies.
Screw the US health system.
American here. Also ICU nurse. One of my favorite Dr "influencers". Always great content that I look forward to. 🍻
Missed you! I appreciate your rational and empathetic takes on medical topics.
As a Canadian who's gone through leukemia and needed really expensive immunotherapy (I got curious at some point and asked how much it costed, and it was somewhere in the range of $250000), I have tons of sympathy for anyone caught up in the US healthcare system. I got diagnosed as a young adult and had I been in the US, I would've likely either entered life hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt (added to university), or would've straight up died.
To understood what an industry is all about ask yourself what would that CEO do that would get him fired from his job. If he said, "Sure quarterly profits are down but look at all lives I've saved" Would he still have a job? If instead he said, "Yeah, lots of people died but look at how much money we made." Hmmm....
It’s important to talk about this, and I’m glad you were able to contribute to the discussion. Hopefully this terrible event will motivate Americans to reevaluate their long-standing habituation to the way things are, and begin a path forward.
You’re right, it’s terrible that poor luigi got arrested
I heard that Taiwan has a terrific national healthcare system.
When the government doesn't represent the people, the people must represent.
Every day they create more enemies for themselves and then they act surprised when one of their enemies goes and does exactly what they expected the whole time.
I co-run a fb endocarditis support group from Australia(I'm not and never have been an IVDU but thanks for asking) and not only shocked at the stories of the US medical system but the fact the majority of US group members not only have normalised but will defend it
I am against extrajudicial consequences for crimes, but I honestly don't know when the judicial system isn't justice
Legalism is a terrible basis for ethics. I am personally deeply non-violent, bit I consider that to be a very fringe and radical position. I absolutely abhor all the hypocrits that claim to be non-violent while supporting state-sponsored violence (as most people do), and have far more respects for those who don’t share my nonviolent ideals but at least are somewhat honest about what they stand for.
If the democracy is never about the working class' problems. If the protests aren't heard, policymakers don't listen. Pretty sure a lot of people will give up on democracy for change.
I've lived in India and in Canada. I've been dealing with the healthcare system across both countries for years now because I have multiple chronic mental and physical health conditions. I have my opinions on healthcare in both countries, and how either could be improved. In Canada, where I am now, I Frequently complain about how hard it is to get a specialist referral or the hours and hours I've had to wait in the ER- but I would either be bankrupt or dead if I lived in the USA, and I don't take that for granted. I don't know if anyone anywhere is ever going to have a perfect healthcare system- but a for-profit system is never going to value the lives of consumers more than profit. I feel for Thompson's family, but I find it hard to have sympathy for the man himself.
During Hurricane Helene, American citizens were issuing threats to meteorological weather presenters on an alarming scale, because so many Americans believe the weather is controlled by scientists and their "wealthy backers". FEMA workers were threatened for trying to help citizens. We've never had crazies working in tandem on this big of a scale to affect how corporations reconsider their marketing tactics and reintroduce discrimination. This is in response to your question is this a sign of societal decay. If you've lived in the US, you've seen and lived it for at least the past two decades. I'm frankly surprised we're not worse off at this point.
There’s no way an Italian would eat at McDonalds and wear the same clothes for several days 🇮🇹
My personal theory is the guy actually wanted to get caught. He had the ability to get away/leave the country etc. He wants for this to be captured by the media in America and publicized everywhere, in the way the American media does. The next OJ trial if you will. He wants the American public to be really really focused on the inequity of the US health system and maybe force change to the system. Maybe hes hopeful the US prison system will fix his health issues, if he even gets convicted and allowed to walk by the jury.
14:38 "Idk if this whole thing, executing a ceo, is indicative of some kind of societal decay beginning"
one might argue that it's a continuation of the decay. The social contract was broken by the billionaire class, this is a reaction.
Just remember he's not confirmed yet as the culprit, I think.
This story is getting more coverage than United Healthcare ever provided.
I live in Minnesota, where that company is located. One of my best friend works for them and when she started, the employees around her said that if you have ANY other option (like get on your spouses health insurance) to do so because their own health insurance was terrible. They're famously evil though I've known a lot of people who have worked there as they draw people in from IT gigs elsewhere. That all said, I am glad I'm on a social media break (except youtube) because those memes sound horrible. I'm a victim of endless insurance drama and I still don't want anyone unalived as a result. To not want others to suffer is/was....the "enlightenment" goal I thought, in my classic liberalism worldview. Guess modern life has gone astray.
It is a very curious incident, id argue first of its kind a western wealthy man being murdered for his "business actions". Part of me worries that this will lead to more part of me almost hopes it leads to something finally being done to bring power back down the ladder
LOL I am sadly a pre-authorization princess. This whole story hits so close to home for me, literally and figuratively. Not only do I pass by the hotel where the shooting occurred on my way to the hospital most mornings (i was thankfully in clinic that day), i also live blocks away from the hostel where the shooter stayed. Furthermore, i have been denied coverage by UHC of medication that i've needed since birth, and seen the prices on my medications almost double, despite the manufacturer of the drug themselves selling them direct to consumer for the base rate I've paid for >20 years (which is how i now get my medications, uninsured, and cheaper). I have to constantly work around my patients' insurance policies to cleverly piece together the best quality care i can possibly offer them, which often runs contrary to my medical knowledge and skills, all because some paper pusher at a corporate insurance company says, "nah." I implore you to speak to real people in the US rather than follow the news - there is a disturbing sensationalist narrative being pushed about online behavior on news outlets but I assure you, nobody in real life is celebrating this event, and the likelihood of copycat violence is extremely low (we are angry at CEOs who are making our lives harder - we don't want our lives to be harder, meaning, we dont want to go to prison. its pretty straightforward). That said, "murder is bad" is a moot point and it doesn't resonate among those of us (myself included) who are personally invested in this story. We in the US are desensitized to murder. Our kindergartners are murdered. Our mentally ill and suffering are murdered. Its devastating but its a fact of life that's as American as apple pie. I'm incredibly frustrated by the portrayal of our response to this event as "glee" and "celebration" of violence when it is instead a sense of unity and shared, collective grief that we have not felt in decades -- grief for our loved ones and our own health. This is a very strange feeling, since our awful healthcare business affects people on the left and on the right equally, and after a demoralizing and upsetting election season, maybe it does appear as joy that we are relating to one another but its certainly not a bloodthirsty party over the killing of Thompson. The fact that the media continues to hammer on this narrative of Americans rejoicing the killing of a man, rather than trying promote the difficult conversations around modifying our broken systems, is yet another among many colossal failures of shoddy American institutions. And those are my two cents, an embarrassing proportion of my paycheck, as a resident doctor (and former oncology nurse who is indeed familiar with gallows humor) in the US.
@12:00, "The Tyranny of Metrics" - Jerry Muller
Not quite the same topic, but it does apply. A discussion about how when everything, even performance, is reduced to numbers and metrics, sometimes systems and people within them will resort to underhanded, unethical, (and in extreme cases, criminal) practices to fall within set parameters to meet their goals and quotas. And unfortunately, this is what unfettered capitalism does. It reduces everything to charts, graphs, metrics and numbers. Even human lives.
No one gonna talk about found in Luigi's Mansioni? Killed me more than the ceo
5:27 "Correlation is not causation" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic" -Stalin
As someone from Denmark I have just heard story after story after story about how shit the insurance companies are in America so I can completely understand the reaction this has gotten and while yes it’s sad a person died but those companies have murdered so many people bc of denials :/
I'm currently training to go in social service work and from what i've noticed is that people who deal with human misery professionally (people in medicine, social work, activism et cetera) tend to have very gallows humour.
Nobody deserves to die, except the people insured at UHC.
I wouldn't say the reactions are unprecedented, think of the Titan submersible.
Initially I thought ppl were waking up then I realized there are too many distractions to go back to sleep. Numb we will remain. Something interesting about America is people are actually not that bad and as a result is easy to just accept things further desensitizing what one tolerates
How much empathy can you be expected to have for someone who enriched himself off of the murder and suffering of others?
The bright side of all of this is that the assassin didn't get the CEO mixed up with Brian Thompson, the actor. The original Fright Night II from the 80s was a great movie. He was great in Cobra too.
Climate protesters usually try to let emergency vehicles through, although it depends on the organisation and situation
You and John Fetterman and Josh Shapiro could have just like shut up instead of begging "oh boo hoo he was a father".
You haven't a shred of humanity do you
Its not that we dont ir night fight for it but thst they really fight for us not to have it. Not even to make to easier such as not having in/out networks . If you pay you should just get care. It's getting to the point that regular citizens are self caring or saving their money for their own care and just negotiating directly with the hospitals cause oftentimes. Hospitals and doctors are also hands tied in what kind. Of care. They can provide because of fighting with insurance.
I just got "United kingdom" auto translated in your certification...as UNIFIED KINGDOM (unified as united states of america and kingdom LITERALLY as if your country's name is kingdom😂😂)
yeah no that's not the name of Great Britain in swedish Google...you should know that. It's Big-britain (Storbritannien)
As an Australian who is enjoying the best free healthcare in the world, I am glad that there is no violence, corporate or citizen retribution over here. If private health has failed, then we need public healthcare and vice versa. The system needs to be adaptive as long as it functions as it is supposed to, the privatization of health has become sales and profit driven even if it comes at the cost of the people. This needs to stop.
Yeah mate, Australia is such a non-violent state, totally not built on genocide just like the US…
@lostvarius LOL. America and possibly South Africa are the only two countries where people gleefully celebrate people getting murdered.
Free Luigi! Jury Nullification!
Thank you for sharing your beliefs about healthcare. We miss your humanity and wit online. You look tired, please look after yourself. Colin UK.
5:25 lmao
Every dollar earned in profit is a dollar not used to care for a sick person. That dollar of profit has far less value to society as a dividend payment than it does to having healthier citizens. For-profit health insurance companies have no social license to operate. Resources are finite and should be triaged according to medical ethics guidelines, not some stock market metrics.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Much to think about.
Neglect is of course an act of violence, and this neglect is heartlessly and greedily calculated and implemented.
Maybe the question is is the CEO of a health fund such as United Health Care more/less evil than a recently toppled dictator given what we know about the business model (deny,delay,depose) of that health fund or is the only difference that one does it for money/profit and the other does it for power?
I wonder about the different features between the first cctv pictures of the original shooter and Mangione. I wonder if he's being set up as the fall guy?
Wealth distribution can be considered as a moral question, like…. At what point does it become moral to forcibly take from those who have bent the laws of the land, in order to take all of the nation’s assets for themselves?
For example, in Australia the highest 20% own 64% of our nation’s wealth, compared to the USA, where the top 1%own 31% of the USAs wealth
Not an exact comparison, but the point is there.
When is it moral for the slaves to revolt against those who have ‘legally’ stolen all rights and property?
I agree with everything you said, as well as a comment I saw yesterday which said, "If it's mandatory to pay for health 'insurance' it should be mandatory for them to fulfil your claim."
Watch 'Capitalism - A Love Story' to see what's boiling in the pressure cooker.
If UHC were to use all of their profits and executive salaries, it would only allow for ~10% more health care than they already pay for. Does that change anything for you?
Like Unc Ted, terrific proposals, with terrible means of executing the solution.
McDonald's breakfast, man. That's how they get you
It is not about what is wrong.
What is going on in USA is criminal. What UHS was doing was criminal. But it was also perfectly legal.
So best situation would be that people like that go to jail. Or even better, are rehabilitated, even better, are prevented from doing harm.
The thing is, we all know none of the above is going to happen. People would keep dying as intended. What happen is the least bad thing that could happen to that guy, this is just how bad things are as far as I understand. Something is very broken. But yes, something is very broken.