The Most Progressive Christian Denomination? The United Church of Canada
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, we'll discuss the beliefs and practice of the United Church of Canada, and their arguable status as the most progressive Christian denomination in the world.
Purchase "The Theology of the United Church of Canada" Here: www.amazon.com/Theology-Unite...
0:00 History of the United Church of Canada
1:20 The Theology of the United Church of Canada
1:39 Atheist Minister Gretta Vosper
2:30 Understanding of God
3:30 Doctrinal Statements
3:55 The Bible
7:18 The Trinty
10:12 Deity of Christ & Resurrection
12:18 Intra-relgious views
14:25 Islam & Mohammad
15:03 Uniqueness of Christ
17:09 Sin
19:48 Creation & Evolution
21:09 Sovereignty & Predestination
21:49 Feminist & Ecofeminist Theology
22:41 Penal Substitutionary Atonement
23:22 Social Statements & Captalism
24:27 LGBT Movement
25:08 Sacraments
25:56 Eschatology & Millennium
28:04 Changing Theology
28:53 Statistics, Membership, & Decline
33:44 Ecumenical Connections
If Reddit was a church
Thanks for the TL;DR
literally
XD
"If Reddit was a church..."
True, if Reddit were mainlining theological speedballs. I mean, an atheist pastor? What?
Reddit is literally a far right hellhole not like this church
The UCC's beliefs in a nutshell: 'Whatever secular society tells us to believe in'
Most people are somewhat equally intolerant of other beliefs. If the UNC tolerates the rejection of biblical teachings, even to the degree of tolerating Atheist pastors, they do NOT tolerate acceptance of biblical teachings. How do you think the UNC would treat a fundamentalist pastor preaching that homosexuality is a sin within their denomination?
So sad
No. Most of what our society upholds is sinful. For example, we're happy to let the polar ice caps melt so we can carry on our debauched consumerist lifestyle. God demands that we should be perfect. There is much to be done.
@@BenevolentChum - God's demand for your perfection is to show you your utter inability to meet God's standard. Humble yourself. Cry out to God for help and mercy. Let Jesus Christ be your perfection. Stop trying to be perfect. You can't do it. Only God can.
"And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
- Mark 10.18 (ESV)
You need to stop worrying about ice caps and start worrying about men's souls, especially your own.
@@rubiks6 I don't think public youtube forum posting are a proper venue for correcting a brother or sister in the faith
Wow, an atheist as a pastor? I thought that was a joke, until it wasn't.
I mean why bother? That's like a Philadelphia Eagles fan organizing a Dallas Cowboys fan club
@@felicciasc Yes as an Eagles fan that is an excellent analogy!
The "United Church" is a disgusting, wicked organization. Their residential schools took native children away from their parents and subjected them to rape and worse at the hands of demonic pedophiles. The good news is that they are dying out rapidly. The wrath of God is on them.
@Starfall 21X I think so too. I've never trusted televangelists. They're in it for the money.
Catholic priests are not required to believe God exists. And there are tons of others who operate fake churches who don't. It's a very widespread reality. Especially among black prosperity preachers who consider it to be a respectable hustle that benefits their communities. Its nothing new. That a woman says she's a pastor is more shocking. Or should be.
Being raised in the United Church is why I converted to Orthodoxy.
Wise decision fellow orthodox friend
orthodox gang
Really shows how little bible they teach
When was your upbringing, and how closely does the theology from then match what's described in this video?
@@Encysted I was born in the 70s and stopped going to church in the late 80s, in large part because by then they were already well on their way to this, with rainbow flags and lesbian pastors. In my 30s when He called me I knew it had to be the real deal. My godparents being Serbian I was exposed to Orthodoxy from childhood, and the historical perspective magnified the theological perspective. I knew it was where I had to be. Much like evangelical charismatics and snake handlers, congregations in the United Church are far beyond not telling the whole Truth, they outright embrace heresy. They come out of their blasphemous temples on Sunday full of something that is not The Holy Spirit. #ПравославиеилиCмерть #ChristianityOnlyTougher
How to be Christian, UCC style
- Believe in God (optional)
- Believe in the Bible's truthfulness (optional)
- Pray (optional)
- Believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior (optional)
Believe in baby slaughter (mandatory)
Believe in marriage defamation (mandatory)
Believe in state worship (mandatory)
Do not believe in creation(Genesis) - mandatory
Ur a Saint getting through this with a straight face.
Underrated comment right here
And a gag bag.
I’M THINKING WINDBAG.
Overt apostasy
A true apostate church.
Going to hell... It's what unbelief gets you. 🔥
Agreed truly an apostate church.
@@spidersoldier1039 Ear tickling heathens.
sataniste
@Jennifer Seay yup
The United Church of Canada is actually dying, members are leaving and churches are closing. UCC ministers are often not recognized in local ministerial associations because they are no longer considered Christian ministers
All churches are dying .
@@Hyperventilacion Churches are dying in the Western world because it has become so materialistic and has fallen prey to secular humanism - the UCC is a sorry example of that. Thank God, they are going strong in other areas such as Russia and China.
Praise God
Thank God it’s dying
@@gottliebgrubber92 yes
I'm a Buddhist, as in a traditional Buddhist, and my jaw is on the floor reading what these people "believe" in. They have atheist pastors and call belief in a creator God "too hierarchal and patriarchal." Huh?! Why even bother with church in the first place? I just can't respect this the way I could Orthodoxy or Reformed Baptists or something. I just...wow.
Drinking alcohol is against the Precepts, but learning about this "church" is tempting me to break that edict.
Precisely! You are Buddhist and I am a Conservative Evangelical Baptist Christian. We adamantly disagree with each other but both know what we believe in. We can do so while maintaining respect for each other as fellow human beings. Trying to “unite” a common “faith” between the two of us cheapens both!
I firmly hold to the divine inspiration, authority, and sufficiency of scripture. My doctrinal views clearly reflect this!
@@63stratoman I 100% agree. I have plenty of good Christian friends and I actually have more respect for a real Christian than one of the many fake "Buddhists" who think drugs, abortion, and are promiscuity are okay even though the Dharma (Buddhist gospel) teaches explicitly against them. In the end, the secularist/cultural Marxists want all religions destroyed and they often try to do so by infecting faith communities with their relativism.
Many churches have become social clubs. It is a place to belong and feel good rather than worship God. That way you can think yourself a good person without any change in your lifestyle.
@@rumrunner8019 Many people that identify as Christian do these things too. To me that is sad. I believe God commanded not to do these things to be mean, but because humans are better off when we follow God's will for our lives.
@@rumrunner8019
Could you give specifics in what parts of the the Buddhist Dharma which speak against those things?
As well as a summary of what the Dharma is and what it means to Buddhists?
I think it might be helpful in conversations with some Buddhists I know.
As I said on another video from this fantastic channel, this church is a bit like belonging to a sports team where team members are not only not required to play the same sport, they don't even need to play any sport at all.
Well they do have that in sport. I've heard of clubs who buy a player but never field them during the time of the contract. Strange, eh?
@@thursoberwick1948 Sorry, not quite the same thing. Those clubs you refer to in such a case, are not completely constituted as sports teams asking NONE of their signed players to play the sport ostensibly the focus of the team.
@@voyager7 Similar though. Imagine buying a player for a couple of years and never putting them in a game? Or more than one. It is very odd. Being a professional soccer player but being paid not to play.
I think on the religious question it's a case of people loving the pay cheque. The sensible thing would have been to defrock these people, maybe excom as a last resort... but they shouldn't be in leadership positions.
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
Galatians 1:8
this is the apostasy.
And yet there's no evidence of any curse placed on them...
@@dariomeneses5756 being damned is a pretty big curse
Paul said so. Not God. Paul IS not God.
@@heidiluotolahti4305 And your point is?
It's like me being a hotdog vendor, but doesn't believe that I have hotdogs to sell.
IMO a hotdog vender that does not believe in hotdogs is closer to the Christian message, than a hotdog vender that foolishly confuses the actual hotdog to be the bread of the Lord, which happens all the time in literalist fundamentalism, the confusion between material and spiritual.
And regardless of which vender you choose if person orders „one with everything“ then they might become a Buddhist instead.
@@matthewkopp2391 if you believe that God cannot be present in bread and wine you don't think very much of God's abilities. If God can't do that then God also can't create a universe.
thanks for making me hungry
@@mtoohill I mean, God can do that but God can do alot of things that he doesn't do. Which miracle is there that God does that he does all the time in mechanistic fashion, literally no other one.
@@ikengaspirit3063 it only happens once. Christ offered the one Eucharist and we partake in it. God exists outside the laws of time and space
I'm agnostic and this "church's beliefs" are hurting my head.
Love the channel, I always found the variations in theological thought between denominations interesting.
I’m leaning more and more gnostic the older I get.
I hope you continue to seek the truth.
In my church experiences, there are variations in theological thought between every single person sitting in the pews. Christians are like thumbprints, no two are exactly the same.
Show me a single Biblical verse that tells us that homosexual behaviour is good for humanity. There are several passages condemning it. You do the math.
@@gianthills You're right, the bible says that a man lying with another man is an abomination, and so is eating pork and shrimp, wearing clothing with mixed fibers, planting wheat and barley in the same furrow, and trimming your beard. Show me a single Bible verse that tells us that eating a hot dog is good for humanity.
I’m a pretty liberal guy and generally enjoy progressive denominations but good grief, this isn’t a church or denomination, it’s just a social gathering.
Take away the social gathering and people identifying as Christian will dwindle to near zero in a generation or two.
Every progressive that enjoys progressive denoms has been duped and is on part responsible for the fruit it bears.
Without the Trinity and the Resurrection as the absolute minimum level of belief, especially of those in leadership, I do not see how this can remotely be called Christianity. It's not another denomination, it's a fancy social club, and not much more.
This is the problem when faith becomes only cultural.
They are not Christians. They don't follow Christ so they can't be Christians.
Exactly, you might as well be Jewish
@@ripvanwinkle3334 Like orthodox
I agree that belief in the resurrection seems to be at the core of Christianity but there are plenty of nontrinitarian varieties of Christianity. You had them in the early church (Arianism is one of the more important ones) and a good number exist today.
I grew up in the United Church of Canada. My Pastor preached a liberal form of Christianity, but in private denied the divinity of Christ and hoped to use it as a bridge between Christianity and the New Age movement.
not a church, there was not a 'pastor' and there was not a slice of Christianity in any of it if you deny Christ's divinity. imagine these souls on the day of judgement
@@Grandlett : well, the joke is.....that an atheist pastor does not believe in doctrines like judgement, hell, sin and all that other religious bs. Thats why I like UC very much.
@@claudiaschneider5744 Not believing in principles on mechanics won't save you once you fall from 100m high building.
@Nich. Yes ALL the soc. 'liberal' churches are actually a fraud. They just found out that the church can be used to get influence over people. So it was a very Gramscian move the Neomarxists took there. That said, there is problems with 'conservative theology' as well... The fundamental problem is trying to find truth without having the truth first. So even when you dogmata would be correct, it doesn't help, when you don't know what that means.... That can only be taught by the Holy Spirit as Jesus clearly explain.
@@Grandlett Answer: 0
Question: you guess.
@claudiaschneider5744 why do you like dishonest organizations? Be free to be an atheist but an open one. Do you have any values or do you just think tribally about the consequences and therefore believe that if dishonesty leads to more atheists, that this particular dishonesty is good? I have seen the same deceptive behaviour from some religious people who thought that lying about their intention isn't bad it it coverts people to their religion.
Some years ago I volunteered to be a chaplain at a local hospital. One of the other "chaplains" was an atheist. When I asked the hospital administrator to explain, he said the atheist "chaplain" provided psychological support for patients. But of course, psychology is not meant to be the main function of a true chaplain. It was then that I realized how little that the hospital understood or cared for the spiritual well-being of its patients.
Though originally the word chaplain referred to representatives of the Christian faith, it is now also applied to people of other religions or *philosophical traditions. The concepts of a multi-faith team, secular, generic or humanist chaplaincy* are also gaining increasing use, particularly within healthcare and educational settings.
"...psychology is not meant to be the main function of a true chaplain."
That is changing, as well it should, It's not that Atheists can’t care about religion; they just don't care for the politics of it. And too, *Atheism is free to define itself* just as all religions do.
"...I realized how little that the hospital understood or cared for the spiritual well-being of its patients."
Prayer simply does not work, that’s why hospitals don’t have faith-healing wards.
*Sapient Wisdom* Native Americans have a saying; if dogs and horses could draw their gods, their gods would look like dogs and horses.
@@BeachsideHank Chaplin's are not to provide psychological counseling but spiritual and religious support to patients. Hospitals have both psychiatrists and psychologists to provide psychological counseling to people. Your statement to the Father is dumb!
@@BeachsideHank Also your statement that prayer doesn't work is patently wrong! It does and I know this personally when I was in hospital.
@@johnroesch2159 "Chaplin's are not to provide psychological counseling but spiritual and religious support to patients. "
That view has changed, and will continue to evolve, your permission is not needed.
When religion is questioned, I have found;
Rabbis resort to humor.
Imams resort to anger.
Christians just preach more at you.
@@johnroesch2159 "...prayer doesn't work is patently wrong!"
*Sapient Wisdom* The conclusions of a personal faith holder are irrelevant as to whether or not any Gods exist.
How incredibly unsurprising it is Canadian.
The UCC shows how organizations: churches, corporations, countries, can exhibit behavior like a living entity. In the sense that they ultimately are struggling for survival and adapt accordingly.
I am not a Christian. Which you think would mean I would find favor with how the UCC conducts itself. Yet I would be hard pressed to have any relation with the UCC. As their extreme lack of conviction towards even the most basic aspects of spirituality could only serve to erode the foundations of any faith and standard they come in contact with.
The UCC continuous to exist only because its employees seek no disturbance in their livelihood and that its lay-people find comfort in a faith that demands nothing but a tithe.
This is a mic drop comment
If one is an atheist, what is the point of remaining as a leader in a religious organization except to undermine it?
You know... you see this and you start thinking that the Catholics and Orthodox actually know what they're doing.
Not really, because the alternatives are evangelicalism and fundamentalism, both of which are better than this crap. And let's not pretend there aren't any heretic Orthodox or Catholic priests bleeding their flocks astray.
The Church does know.
That's because we do.
Actually, the data trends suggest the opposite - that Catholics and Orthodox DO NOT know what they are doing.
Since 2006, US people identifying as white evangelical protestant have PLUMMETTED from 23% of the population to 13.6% (at 2022 per Pew PRRI surveys). White Catholics reduced from 17.8% to 13.6%. And white non-evangelicals from 16% to 12.6%.
I'd suggest white evangelicals, as a group, have trashed the brand of Christianity by largely going full MAGA extremist.
And Anglicans
I'm 20 minutes in and cannot finish this video. There was a comedian in California that decided to start an antheist church as a joke but it took off. They sing feel good pop songs, have scientist come speak, and do community projects. That's what this sounds like, but at least they don't pretend to be Christians.
Saw a news story about a similar group in London about ten years ago. Same format.
A strictly better option, at least they're more honest.
Are you talking about the organization called Sunday Assembly?
I made it to 24 minutes. I now have 4 less minutes in my life than you do. 😢
Don't fool yourself. The reason people go to church is #1 for the social gathering.
as a Catholic I am astounded by all that people can come up when they start with the premise that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and that every individual can and should interpret it independent of the tradition it came out of and is attached to. Learning about protestant theology and its constant splits, remergers and continued splits is like watching a strange yet intriguing movie.
None of this is based on the Bible. Someone with a sound understand of Scripture can easily dismiss all of this heresy in many different ways.
"the tradition it came out of and is attached to"
The tradition in which the Scriptures were written (that of the first century Apostolic Church) is not the tradition the Catholic church bases its teachings on, the Catholic tradition (like the Orthodox or any other) has changed and evolved over the two millennia since Christ . And even with this supposedly strong tradition and ecclesiastical authority, the Catholic church is rife with division of thought and heresy even by Catholic standards.
@@Bane_questionmark How do you debunk someone's "christian" beliefs if their interpretation is different from yours. They will give a different meaning to each verse and politely disagree with you on everything.
@@aceraphael If someone's interpretation is unbiblical, you could explain how the context of the verse shows them to be mistaken, or you could point to other passages of Scripture (or doctrines plainly derived from Scripture) their interpretation would contradict. If they chose to not listen to the Word of God, I don't think invoking ecclesiastical authority would change their mind. Of course people do cite traditional teaching and interpretation, but that interpretation is elaborated and defended on the basis of Scripture.
And of course there is room for legitimate disagreement, "disputable matters" as Paul called them.
Uh, I believe it was the papist church that was the first one to misread his Bible & put _filioque_ into the creed -- contrary to tradition *&* to scripture...
In other words, the heretical Roman Church split from THE Church in 1054, then all teh protestants split off from the papists -- not, as you will observe, from the _Orthodox_ ... Schismatics beget schismatics, apparently.
Criticize the protestant silliness all you want, Mr. Catholic, but be sure to also have a look in the mirror. Your church caused this, & is in no better condition.
That's because the Vatican has added layer upon layer of questionable doctrine, which often contradicts the Bible. Like these people.
Why don't those "atheist pastors" rather join Unitarian Universalism?
That would at least make them morally consistent.
Plus the UU denomination has been struggling, they could use the additional membership.
Well, because UU pastors actually believe in a god. It’s not the Christian God, but, it is a deity.
“if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Rom 10:9.
@@Tom-iw3zh Very Calvinistic of you Tom, and am glad to see that the doctrines of the sovereignty of God cannot be wiped out: (because what is commonly called Calvinism is nothing more than the doctrines of God codified into an easy to understand system of theology, aka, TULIP; which was called at the time of Luther an "Augustinian Revival").
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Those he chose he chose before the foundation of the world, and those he chose will come to him because his power is greater than the will of man.
@@Tom-iw3zh I say it not as a bad thing; rather a good thing that the Augustinian revival is still strong.
You pointed out the, "I chose you, and ordained you" on the part of God, a fact pointed out that usually sends Arminians and Papists raving and frothing: raving and frothing insomuch that if society was not as civil as it was in these days, they would do do anyone who mentioned it what they did to Tyndale, Huss, and Jerome: cut your throat, or tie you up burn you alive at at the stake.
I know that God knows his own, he died for his sheep and he will bring his sheep to himself; and his sheep will repent because he will make them willing in the day of his power.
"Salvation is of the LORD", so as Augustine said, "They to whom grace is given will repent and continue reading; they to whom it is not will do neither."
Tom, whether you are ignorant of it or no, you sound like a 5 point Calvinist, or Reformed at the very least. That is good, not bad. Look up Nelson Turner of AV1611Reformation, because his preaching is consistent with your comments in doctrine and practice.
Your speech is that of a conviction I have only seen twice in my lifetime in this matter, you speak as the elect of God and believe.
As for me: Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Num 24:18 And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly.
Num 24:19 Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city.
I believe it's best to follow what Jesus says. Not the Romans. Jesus never said, just worship me and I got your sinful butts. That was Paul. I smell a rat, but then I have a good nose for bs.
The words of Paul were inspired by God, so they are the words of God. We can trust Paul’s letters because they are the word of God. Not only what Jesus said are his words, the whole Bible no matter who said it or wrote it are the Word of God. Jesus didn’t write anything, the apostles and scribes wrote his words, so it is the same with Paul’s letters. Jesus told the apostles that the Holy Spirit would remind them of everything Jesus taught them, so their written words are the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and should be believed as that, all Scripture is the Word of God.
@@christopherbrewer4421 Ah yes, I’m well aware of what Paul wrote. Biblical origins are well documented.
It's one thing to claim heresy because one church's doctrine differs from another.
But rejection of the Bible entirely? Now that's some real heresy.
Why are there thousands of Christian denominations? Because religion is a choose-your-own-story.
“The divinity of Jesus and the reality of Heaven and Hell are irrelevant.” If you can’t hear Satan in that you don’t have eyes to see or ears to hear. It actually tells us in the Bible to focus on the spiritual because this earth and every thing in it will be dust one day but our spirit is eternal
The reality of Hell will continue to be irrelevant to those in darkness until they find themselves bound for eternity in the place farthest from His light.
Pastor has a new definition
And that's why Canada is persecuting the real church!!
I saw the thumbnail. I could not resist and clicked. I saw that it was not a joke. They don't think that belief in Christ is necessary to be a leader there. There is no need to go any further.
This is not a church.
This is shocking...An atheist "pastor"? What is the purpose??
Subversion
No person should be a pastor of any church unless they hold the fundamental beliefs of that church.
To have a job?
@@gavasiarobinssson5108 That is certainly a weird ",job"...
I dunno, they just like the church or something
I thought I'd heard of some "out there" churches, but those groups were strictly amateur hour. I'm not believing what my ears are hearing.
This so-called church started as a joining of the Methodists and Presbyterians. Now, it resembles neither
.
I grew up in the United Church, was married there and had my children 'baptized' there. Praise God that in my 40's, in spite of this demonic institution & through my new friends I still became a born again Christian. Praise Jesus! I feel so sorry for all those who attend this denomination as Jesus made it quite clear in John 3:3 ..."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (ESV) Rarely was the Bible even read in the churches I attended. However, in the last one I attended, I was told that they refused to read the book of Matthew as it was "too judgmental". I was told this after questioning the youth pastor as to why she was doing the opposite of what Jesus had instructed us to do within this book. For the last 4 years I was at this church, I was only there to support my elderly mother who had dementia. She had always attended the United Church & had never had a firm belief in Jesus. So now as she was nearing death I tried to talk to her about Jesus and the real reason He came to earth - to shed His blood for us, but I couldn't make her understand. However, I thought that the youth pastor, a woman in her 50's, would have had lots of experience in this area, & would be a good resource for my mom. But when I called & asked her to explain the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus to my mom, she told me, "I can't really do that because I don't believe any of that to be true!" Please people, salvation is only through the precious blood of Jesus Christ & being born again. Go back & read your Bibles - this church won't help you in this area. Also read Matthew 24 & 25, along with Revelation. We're living in the end times now - just look around. But above all, get out of this demonic church!
Demonic? Give me a break!
Unfortunately atheist pastors have turned out to be fairly common in the Netherlands, in the Protestant Church of the Netherlands (PKN). Until recently my next door neighbor was an elderly woman who was also an atheist pastor. Likewise with panentheism. Trinitarianism seems to be on the decline there too.
I found it extremely disheartening to know all of this, and the fact that the PKN's official line is that this is a completely normal and acceptable, and not at all undesirable.
When I was discerning Christianity in 2019 it quickly became clear to me that the PKN was not for me.
Half of these sentences sound like headlines from The Babylon Bee...
😅
John 14:6- Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Either Christ is your Lord over all, or He's not your Lord at all. Unfortunately, for UCCan, they're not serving Christ. They're serving the world.
That which we do for our brothers, we do for Christ. In other words, you can pray, bake pies and tell everyone how great you are or you can humble yourself and dig an outhouse for a village in South America. One thing we do not do is speak for The Lord i.e. anything people have a problem with, is not an issue between 'us' and 'them' but an issue between 'them' and God. All are welcome.
@@cijmo The only way to everlasting life is through the Son (Jesus) , not digging latrines! Mark 16:15 Go ye unto all the world and preach the gospel........
@@cijmo You have a good heart, that you would help the poor. Allot of people that say allot of things but do nothing to help people are wrong. But, truth is still truth. Works, (digging toilets for the poor) or other helpful things are great and you can serve Christ doing them, but you must believe the Gospel of Christ and be born Again. If not, your works are nothing to God. If you say you believe but don't do anything to show it, your faith is dead. You need both. “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5), “for it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do” (Ephesians 2:8-9). You should do good works if you are a believer in Christ, but the works don't save you. (if they did what about the paralyzed or those who cant do much) no, the good works should be fruit of what is going on inside your spirit. It is faith in Jesus Christ alone that saves you. Acts 4, verses 11,12 11 For Jesus the Messiah is (the one referred to in the Scriptures when they speak of ) a ‘stone discarded by the builders which became the capstone of the arch.’[b] 12 There is salvation in no one else! Under all heaven there is no other name for men to call upon to save them.”
@@robschannel4512 A MEN Brother
I rarely use the Not a True Scotsman fallacy when it comes to faith, but there's no logical way you could consider this Christianity when recognizing God as a real being isn't required.
That has to be the most complete form of heresy I've ever seen.
It goes beyond heresy, it is full-blown apostasy.
She came forth and announced she was an atheist in 2013. How do you get a congregation to donate enough to keep her on payroll?
“If it is biblical infallibility you want, you need an infallible church too.”
As a Catholic, I couldn’t put it better. They’re making the argument for us.
I don't think the bible is saying touching young boys is very Christ like, so maybe not so much an argument for the catholic church.
@@bruh-ni1fy Incredible argument for the Church's theological validity. Public school teachers and protestant pastors have a higher rate of touching children than Priests.
@@bruh-ni1fyHmm, so how does that disprove papal infallibility and other RCC claims?
An atheist CANNOT be a Christian pastor. That's cognitive dissonance and simply ridiculous. That's like being a pilot but believing the earth is flat. The person can't truthfully affirm the promises of ordination.
It is actually very depressing to learn about these non christian christian churches. But as a student of History and culture I slog through it. Thank God for a clear and simple faith in Jesus Christ as presented in the Bible and for all of you out there who share that faith with me.
The "I support the current thing" meme in church form...
“Go make disciples of all nations…unless it’s offensive and offends pagans, of course”
Like my 12 yr old son said, it's like being a math teacher when you don't like math, or not seeing the value in history and then going to teach history.
Amen. As an Episcopalian, it disgusts me we accept this. WE ARE THE CHURCH JESUS CHRIST HAD FOUNDED. ACT LIKE IT!
Worse, It’s like being a math teacher but not believing any math
All they want is 10% of your income. No change needed. Come as you are and leave the same just give us your 10 percent religion tax.
Ehh, not sure that's it. They might get some money from outside donors, but I doubt these stances help them in the offering plate.
This is why I am a Catholic. The protestant world has gone insane and so has western civilization
Catholicism was subverted with Vatican II.
Look up "Pachamama in Vatican".
Do you think catholics are exempt from this?
A house built on sand. What could possibly go wrong?
I consider myself a progressive economically and socially, but even I believe in objective truth. I think this church has gone too far.
I'm just speechless.....
Sounds like the Roman Empire during the first and second centuries AD. Well, Babylon the great is fallen! Rome fell.
To abandon God is to put yourself at great peril. What will these UCC leaders say to Jesus on Judgement Day? They are condemned already by their own words.
Why do these people even go to church?
Maybe their friends go there.
A social club
@@wststokes7373 exactly. I think this helps them feel good about themselves, as messed up as that is.
No kidding!
I've been to a few church services where I suspected the pastor did not believe what they were preaching at all. There was no spirit or enthusiasm, and the only other people there were little old ladies who probably went there for 50 years out of habit, or because the church happened to be next door.
That’s what I thought
So it's like the church in Futurama
Where Bender is the head of the church
This is the kinda stuff that made me start to think the Protestant revolution was a mistake.
Well it was. The bishops created the bible. The Bible did not create the bishops. Subordinating the bishop's authority to the Bible's authority makes no sense.
@@Sewblon it fosters relativism. Anyone can interpret scripture as they see fit and these atheistic churches of human fraternity as god is the natural “progression” of this revolution. It focuses on what man wants and not what he owes God, obedience.
The bible is God breathed. When a denomination stops following it,,, they die. The united church is died. I’ve watched it in my home town, it has turned into a social club, period!
@@mikazoftstrom2343 Lord said to Peter that it would be him to be foundament of Church. Hence, primate of Pope is clearly biblical. It was promised that Holy Spirit will lead Church and reveal the one Truth. Tradition of Catholic Church is the revelation of Gods will, whereas protestant movement created some kind of constantly dividing theological mess. It creates so much uncertainity and is ungodly destructurised and thus completely contrary to the fact that there is only one Truth and not many truths depending on what each pastor in some little community consider to be truth.
@@yonex157 that’s what I wrote, I agree.
Me as an Episcopalian just going: “and they think we’re liberal” 🙄
EDIT: I will be ignoring this comment section form now on.
I have tried to be cordial and respectful to everyone, but I am officially done trying to argue with crazy people. 🙃
My apologies to those who are inquiring of Christianity and see the behavior of those below. I’ve never seen such hatred in my life, and I am so sorry that you have to see Christians show such disrespect and hatred towards other Christians. ❤️
Episcopalian churches aren't Christian.
@@johnbrowne3950 You are entitled to your opinion, friend... but do try to curb your own ignorance when dealing with a church of apostolic succession; I don’t think I need assistance from the likes of a person like you. 😁
@@graysonmyers3137 Perhaps one day you will see the truth and your eyes will be opened to the apostasy in your church.
@@johnbrowne3950 Perhaps... but perhaps you will be the one to discover that your church is the one in heresy and apostasy. Pax et Bonum friend. 😁❤️🏴
@@graysonmyers3137 My church is independent, fundamentalist Baptist. I'm also a former Roman Catholic, so Latin doesn't impress me.
The modern day Quakers (excepting those Meetings in Africa and some in the US) are as progressive as this. I used to attend a Meeting in thr UK, where there were many atheists, agonostics, Buddhists, etc in the Meeting.
I feel the fire just watching the first part of this. Run!
Thank you for doing some Canadian content!
What I have learned about the UCC has been from its members, and I find it hard to understand how it has people believing in such a perverse and twisted version of the scripture.
I took a university course titled "Exploring Religion: The Bible" which was taught by a prof who was also a UCC minister. To my disgust, the prof lied to his students, claiming the Bible said things it did not say, and did not say things it clearly did say. His lectures were, as ex-Canadian PM John Diefenbaker would have said in genteel Parliamentary language, "The opposite of the truth to it's fullest extent".
@@DaveGIS123 A "teacher" can get by with lies of all sizes, as long as the students are ignorant and/or have no desire or ambition to fact check the liar and confront the spewer of lies. The few that suspect a lie usually don't want to make waves because the prof can sink your grade out of spite.
Wait... that sounds like a symptom of unchecked power running amuck.!! That's not loving or accepting but what can one expect from true blue hypocrites.
I know right? How dare they not follow the Quran!
Well, that's the thing! They DON'T believe in it!
We had missionaries from Africa coming to Ladner, BC to start a real Christian church. That's how bad things got in Canada as far as evangelism goes
☼ that was real cool. nice one.
I can’t believe that people would consider this a Christian church but not Mormons…
My family, specifically my grandparents were United until their death. The United Church was a White British Canadian ethnic cultural church often riddled with freemasons like our family. They rarely spoke the gospel. They were burning off the embers of an old flame that God had previously given them. By the time my Dad came along in the 60s, he remembered a minister saying, "Virgin birth? Probably didn't happen".
My Dad wasn't saved until he was invited to a Pentecostal church as a teenager, now our family is Alliance.
It's the world who needs to adjust in the word of God not the other way around.
And people think the Episcopal Church is bad…at least they’re not ordaining atheists. I’m not Episcopal by the way, I’m Baptist.
Sounds a lot like Unitarian Universalist. As a kid I had a neighbor friend who went to a UU church and he said in addition to the bible they read Buddhist scripture
The thing is that Unitarian Universalists don’t claim to be a Christian faith, only a faith that can include Christianity in it. The UCC, on the other hand, claims to be a Christian church when it is actually not.
There is a lot of compassionate wisdom and truth in Buddhist scripture. No bad thing at all.
@@carpetzest7278There can be truth in writings that do not contain the whole truth
As a LCMS Lutheran, this hurt to hear. I literally started pulling my hair.
I forced myself to sit through this for insight purposes but it made my head and heart hurt.
I wasn't even able to finish. I felt sick to my stomach listening to a church deny that objective truth even exists. If your truth isn't any more valid than my truth, then what's the point in even teaching your truth?
this video is interesting and according to my own experience with the United Church of Canada is right on the money. My particular congregation has a phenomenal remembrance day service every year, that I'd argue ends up being just as important to our congregation as Christmas or Easter. One year the head minister of my congregation played the last post at the remembrance day service shortly after having his ribcage crushed in an accident. His comment on the matter was that it was nothing compared to the sacrifices made by those who fought in the world wars.
Thanks Colin, glad to hear you found it to be accurate!
😱
@@Mario_Sky_521Not everything a congregation does has to 100% relate to the bible. For example, my congregation recently hosted an event of an organization that helps to fund and organize a whole host of smaller community organizations in Africa to help combat HIV. The Bible says nothing about HIV given that SIV didn't cross the species barrier into humans until 1921. Yet, would you argue that because HIV didn't exist in biblical times that a good christian would pretend it doesn't exist? Plus, you're wrong on the point of remembrance day having nothing to do with christianity or religion at large. If the allies lost the war Christianity would likely have ceased to exist along with most other prominent religions. Thus, it's inherently christian to pay our respects to those who fell in part for the cause of protecting religions the world over. I'd highly recommend you either read or watch "The Monument's Men" to familiarize yourself with the subject matter. Furthermore, I'm saddened to hear that you are led astray to believe that some people are more deserving of God's love than others, or something else to that effect. Even in a nonsecular democracy one cannot entirely separate the state from religion. Thus, politics and religion are always at least somewhat intertwined and It's a childish notion to think otherwise.
There are ever growing differences between different denominations, and that's not nececessarily a bad thing. As I like to say, the protestant reformtion never really ended, given that protestant denominations are constantly splitting, amalgamating, and intermingling. The UCC is itself an amalgamation of three other denominations in Canada, namely the Prebetyrians, the Methodists (We use a modified version of the Methodist hymn book), and the Congregationalists. At the time of the amalgamation the Methodists were the largest of the three, but the UCC gets a lot of its current DNA from the Congregationalists in that individual congregations are given a high level of autonomy leading to a higher level of decentralization in the UCC. In the UCC we view The Bible as a human interpretation of the word of God rather than the word of God itself. If you interpret The Bible as the word of god in and of itself, you still have to pick and choose which parts constitute the "correct" interpretation because The Bible is self-contradictory. Anyone who claims that The Bible is consistent with itself doesn't know enough about The Bible. In the UCC we acknowledge that though God is unchanging, our understanding of God is ever-evolving. Thus no person of any kind can claim to truly speak the word of God. In the UCC we prefer to contribute to the evolution of our understanding of God, and The Bible by daring to ask questions many consider settled and sometimes getting different answers than those thought of before.@@Mario_Sky_521
This is inaccurate this group have not been Christians in decades @@ReadyToHarvest
They sound more like a political party.....
Political parties actually expect you to uphold their manifesto if you want to be a member.
@@christophekeating21 Political parties tend to have a manifesto. The UCC seems to have what could be described as an anti-manifest manifesto.
Its impossible to have an organization that doesn't believe in anything with no boundaries(rules, guides).
Hi! Thank you for your presentation! Could you also talk about the United Church of Christ in the Philippines?
I was a member of the UCC but left because of its apostacy. The UCC has a form of Godliness but denies its power. (see 2 Timothy 3: 5).
i was going to attend a "Lutheran" UCC, but I now stay away from those UCC. I'll attend any church except UCC & ELCA & Catholic.
@@mcnielentertainment My only advice is to attend a church where the Bible is preached and Christ is glorified.
Blessings.
@@mcnielentertainment Come visit a catholic church brother.
What is the purpose of Christianity, if churches tell people what they WANT to hear versus what they NEED to hear? How can any church change a sinful social structure without changing the sinful individual?
@Jason Lusk oh bother
@Jason Lusk Dude sin is real, it means that you have missed the mark and have hit a other mark.
Sin and God are real whether you believe or not. Just like gravity. Reality doesn’t require your belief.
@Jason Lusk I need not prove anything
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
We shall all be judged one day, but it will be too late to repent and obey the gospel then.
@Jason Lusk Very well
This is what happens when you put the Bible in the hands of people without a valid tradition to guide them in interpreting it.
I certainly disagree. There are plenty of 'Catholics' and 'Orthodox' who believe in very similar things at a personal level, it has to do with a personal relationship with God, an having humility.
@@oswaldrabbit1409 it clearly has to do with institutionalism, thats why many prefear the legal loop that lefth orthodoxy stuck with out been able to have new ecumenical councils while we the Romans keept on going like with Vatican II
As opposed to invalid traditions blatantly picked up from paganism.
@@thursoberwick1948 What traditions are you referring to?
@@rhwinner Dressing pagan wells, standing stones, turning old pagan deities into saints, co-opting pagan sites and festivals among a number of other things.
Roman Catholicism is highly syncretic to say the least.
I discovered your channel a few weeks ago and have learned a lot from your videos on the beliefs of different groups. As a Canadian, I was excited to see you do a video on a specifically-Canadian denomination. I would love it if you did a video comparing US and Canadian denominations in the same traditions, ie: Mennonite Church USA vs. Mennonite Church Canada, or Lutheran denominations in the US vs. in Canada. As interesting as I find your videos, I'm not always sure which Canadian denominations would be the same or comparable to the US denominations that you discuss, and which denominations cross the border. As someone who is really exploring my beliefs and how they fit into different denominations, that context would be invaluable to me when watching your other videos.
Keep up the excellent work!
I love how you can present these type of subjects with such a neutral outlook but can still clearly make your point. Content unmatched. Thanks brother appreciate the channel
This is NO church!
Woooooooooow...wooooooooooooow...
You...uh...you REALLY REALLY did an AMAZING job at hiding personal opinions on THIS one....like REALLY REALLY AMAZING job.
And as it went on, and I kept listing with my open jaw smashing through the floor from some of the view points... I mean...REALLY REALLY REALLY amazing job at keeping personal thoughts under control and presenting it with the most AMAZING neutrality...EVER....and I Can’t overstate that (I did notice the blood splatter used for the names though😂😂😂😂😂😂😂)
Absolutely great job man. We need people like you to be able to state someone else’s view as *they* view it in just a straight forward way.
The Lord has really given you a gift to do this, and I give The Lord glory for that😊
well, if the funny looking blood splatter was meant to show any negative attitude on his part, then shame on him, it only undermines the neutrality you are praising... I assume sincerely. otherwise, yes, he is good at expressing information neutrally and not inserting opinion or attitude, which would not be very useful.
Not sure what happened, got in my notifications that someone replied to my comment now it's gone. Some kind of question about identifying bias or different kinds of bias?? Or examples? Anyway, if you (whoever added the comment and deleted it) wanted to look at channels presenting religions material in a very unbiased way and not like they are struggling to hide contempt or anything, try Religion for Breakfast or Let's Talk Religion. Both on TH-cam, both very objective and unbiased. If you were looking for bias, such as someone who was openly critical of progressive Christianity, try Alisa Childers. She has decent bible knowledge but I don't think she does much other than ramble against progressives. If you were looking for someone who was an "internal critic" so to speak, a believer with criticisms of some aspects of Christianity, try The Why Guy. If you were looking for someone with a bias critical of Christianity on the whole, try Rabbi Tovia Singer. Tremendous Bible knowledge from a Jewish perspective but also knows the New Testament very well and knows denominations very well, and is very sternly critical of Christian theology on the whole. If you were looking for people critical of religion in general with neutral demeanor, try Genetically Modified Skeptic or Cosmic Skeptic. All of this is on TH-cam.
@@aaronwalterryse4281 Ew, didn't realize at first that looked like blood spatter on the names. What is he trying to say, that he wants to kill them? Gross. So much for neutral😏😝😜
@@aaronwalterryse4281 They all sound interesting. I'll check them out!
So the UCC is essentially UU,may as well be.
I have experience with Hindu Temple Azabache Catholic Church. I find this video to be crazy.
I think I know why this disaster is going on. You can’t please everyone folks.
I like the idea of Methodists Presbyterians and Congregationalists (I am a Methodist with some Reformed leanings) combining to form a super-denomination in principle however UCC looks like what happens when this goes very wrong
Most godly Protestant church
than it's miles ahead of any catholic church
Their argument against infallibility is Monty Pythonesque.
“If she weighs the same as a duck, she’s made of wood!”
“…and therefore?”
“…A WITCH!”
informative thanks
Great content. But do you think you could either slow down to a normal mode of speech or speed up so that when I slow it down using settings, it doesn't sound as though you have a problem putting your words together. :)
huh?
Gretta could have chosen a different career.....
Well-researched and well-presented, thank you!
The most interesting takeaway to me is the incompatibility of Postmodern relativism and religion. If religious leaders aren't comfortable asserting the truth of their faith (and the consequent untruth of opposing faiths) then the logical conclusion will always be a sort of Unitarian Universalist, non-creedal, philosophy-with-religious-trappings. Add to that the Woke desire to be deferential to non-European peoples and you can see how the UCC ended up where it is.
It seems to me to be a bad misunderstanding of what people are looking for from their religion, hence the declining numbers.
Have you done a video on the ULC( Universal Life Church of Modesto CA)?
Joel Osteen would be right at home in this denomination.
Joel Osteen, for all his faults, does believe that God can heal a person miraculously. The United Church does not believe in miracles. No Canadian would mistake Joel Osteen for a United Church minister.
Olsteen looks like John Calvin compared to this nonsense.
@@blacksheepbear6382 Joel Osteen does talk about Christ and His love. He, of course, is not balanced. The United Church talks about politics and the environment. The United Church closes more than one church a week. Eventually it will cease to exist.
@@roberteaston6413 Olsteen is also a panentheist, though. He just papers it over slightly better. His Power of I Am is pure panentheist.
who are you to "judge another man's servant" (Rom. 14:4)? Be ready to answer-----and i don't mean to me.
It's the second largest denomination in Canada (after the Catholic church). I was raised UCC and I think it's very much a product of Canadian Christian thought.
When I first went to church, I had no idea that the UCC was as bad as Im hearing, I knew it had paper thin theology but I was new and didnt understand it.
Ive since become and Orthodox Christian and never felt more alive. The UCC is a dead shell that is dying off rapidly and I hope and will pray for the congregants that they will see the light and run from this den of lies.
God bless you all.
wow, thank you so much
I'd be interested in hearing what you find on the United Church of Christ, which includes some Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches. It sounds very similar.
This isn’t remotely a Christian church
..why would an athiest...want to BE a pastor... in the first place. If she stopped believeing in a God, wouldn't she have left? Or is she staying on to intentionally decieve the masses?
It's a soft job with lots of $$$$$$.
Subversion
And she'll be damned for it
This is literal heresy
Wow. This denomination is as heretical as Mormons and JW's and I'd never even heard of it.
And it's still the largest Protestant denomination in the country.
@@jacobsaint1874 Except in the way that counts...people in the pews.
I think that one will find differences between what any two congregations believe as opposed to other denominations that would split. So one might operate an overnight shelter for families experiencing homelessness whereas another is very concerned with gender issues and a third might be able to pass for a Presbyterian church.
This is so sad. It was sad to see modern attitudes on who can be ordained creeping in and then the whole "the traditional hierarchy is too patriarchal..." and then it's only a matter of time until you see sad things like Sabellianism (AKA modalism) popping up at 7:40. I am an Orthodox Christian, so it is not for me to judge these people, I only pray that they can be brought back into the essential truth of Christianity as expressed in the ancient Nicene Creed. Until then: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
So I was just wondering today if you had ever covered the United Church of Canada. TH-cam needs to stop reading my mind. I grew up in a United Church of Canada congregation and my grandfather was a minister who held a fairly senior position at one point (pre-Gretta, though). Love your channel, by the way. I'm learning about denominations I never dreamt of, let alone heard of.
Can you do a video on Sincheongji Church of the Tabernacle? They've recently spread out across the world