Cardiff Railway The Coryton connection

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ธ.ค. 2024
  • Not everyone will agree with me, but I took a walk to look to see if a connection could be built from the old Cardiff Railway at Coryton to link to the Taff Vale lines near to them. I am not convinced.

ความคิดเห็น • 56

  • @rklammer
    @rklammer 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    For all the difficulties you said i'd be inclined to say you don't cross Longwood drive there and in fact push longwood drive further north if needed and run the railway paralel and south of the road, build a viaduct and public reclamation order on some of the Forest Farm industrial estate. Change the access road to the industrial estate so its not on the north side where it currently is and that way you mitigate everything other than the conservation area, of which seemed ignored anyway when they built the hospital on the meadows.
    As for 'demand', as you said it would be necessary to measure what would be saved and extra usage would be produced from the Radyr and Llandaf areas, but what I would mention is it would certainly increase the efficiency of the Coryton line which could see combined services with the Radyr line. You could even create a 'circle line' service of sorts, although atleast 1 passing point would likely be needed probably just north of Heath Low level since the track is single lane, maybe another between Rhiwbina and Birchgrove where there appears to be enough NR land already.
    I've always like this idea tbh, and didn't undertand why is wasn't a necessity to join the lines up when the hospital was green lit.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      It is doable but that would destroy all the remaining rail relics and nature reserve. So they would have a battle. As for demand I think first build the station at Velindre, which to me is a quick win, then see what demand is from the various parts of the city.

  • @martinmarsola6477
    @martinmarsola6477 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for the walking tour and explaining the past history. Always enjoy watching your videos. See you on the next Bob! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👍🙂🇺🇸

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks Martin. More coming

  • @mattgeldart519
    @mattgeldart519 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Always an enjoyable watch, even when it is an area of Cardiff with which I am totally unfamiliar. Looking forward to you doing Penarth to Biglis Junction. 😉

  • @peterlewis1121
    @peterlewis1121 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for another excellent video, Bob.

  • @EduardBroekman
    @EduardBroekman 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    First, that presented drawing of a possible route employs 50m radius tracks so it entirely ignores that trains like large radiuses and minimal inclines. Trams can maybe do that route. Trains can not.
    Now, secondly, it IS possible to draw a more train-suitable 450m radius circle from starting 300 m before the coryton cut reaches the middle lock.
    That way the 'top' of the circle would be in between the highway and longwood drive. That connection hits the taff vale railway where it runs right alongside the taff river (just below where the old mill used to be). This route avoids the middle lock easily, crosses longwood drive twice but more importantly it avoids built-up areas.
    One little problem left, by my estimation that route has more than a 2% descent, dropping probably 25m within 1km, which would be 1:40. Perhaps someone has an accurate lidar measurement of the height difference? Now that incline could be solved by making the Coryton cut deeper, starting as far back at Coryton but it won't come cheap... and with that it will more tend towards what ianssmith says, go underneath using a bridge twice or reroute the road in parts.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It could probably be done, it would wreck a lot of countryside and the Taff Vale side would need a lot of work, it's whether it's needed

  • @rhobatbrynjones7374
    @rhobatbrynjones7374 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very informative and well argued. I would have like to have heard a comment from TfW at the end to finish it off.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      To be honest TfW aren't the ones pushing this link. It's something a lot of people who want to develop railways want. Looking at the maps they have the extension to Velindre/P&R on there but nothing past that.

  • @iansmith7929
    @iansmith7929 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Longwood Drive doesn't present a problem. Just build a bridge to go underneath. If there is a will (and money) then there is a way.

    • @christopherlloyd-roberts2205
      @christopherlloyd-roberts2205 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Indeed, but I note being an employee of a business in the area, how would you ensure businesses at the bottom operate while you do that?

  • @tango6nf477
    @tango6nf477 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Could it be done?" Simple question and the answer is always yes, but. There is always a balance between need and cost. If the need is great then money can generally be found, eventually. If the need is not great then there is no chance and that's about it really. So I guess the question here "is the need great or not?"

  • @chrisandteresabartley438
    @chrisandteresabartley438 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for a good balanced consideration of the practical aspects. I see a lot of people commenting in Facebook groups about lines that should be reopened and/or linked up, but some are a combination of very expensive work to remove or cross more recent buildings and infrastructure, with questionable limited benefits, so are clearly impractical. As you say, it's easy to draw on a map, and it may look a great idea, but it's quite a different matter in practice.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line is one that comes up so often, but the logistics of doing it would be a nightmare. As you say, sounds great on paper

    • @juliansadler6263
      @juliansadler6263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@bobsrailrelics The obvious south to north link is the shortest and most direct. Builth Road to Moat Lane. The trackbed is intact including the summit tunnel. The only major obstruction is (inevitably) a road at Llanidloes. Yet this route never gets a mention.

  • @TrekkingExploration
    @TrekkingExploration 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It's a very picturesque area isn't it? I need to add it to my long list

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      All around that area are old railways, canal, canal feeder, a water pump, a Weir, and an active railway, all within a nature reserve. It's a fascinating place.

  • @fhwolthuis
    @fhwolthuis 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video, Bob 👍

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks, and thank you for your ongoing support

  • @andrewmerriman7133
    @andrewmerriman7133 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I cannot see this as a viable proposition, I think your views present a water tight case to prove it is just not viable and I totally agree with everything you have said. It is an interesting video and well worth making, thank you for making it. There are lots of ideas being banded about for reinstating railways in Wales, Aberystwyth to Carmarthen and Afon Wen Junction (on the Cambrian Coast Line) to Bangor to name but two. Feasibility surveys for both have come up with eye watering costs and will almost certainly never get off the ground, I suspect the same would be true of this idea.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There is certainly enthusiasm for reopening lines in Wales, but it's not always practical.

  • @andrewphillips1325
    @andrewphillips1325 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    An alternative route could be branching off cutting south of arched bridge, running along south of longwood road only cross over near its junction with industrial estate.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Potentially, though you still have the canal and another nature reserve. Be interesting to see if it ever happens

  • @tonymoon8353
    @tonymoon8353 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is an idea that has been around for several decades. It would require a large sum to build a bridge over the R. Taff and some extensive modifications to the track between Radyr and Taff's Well. Is it the best place to invest this large sum or are there other projects where the benefits would be greater? What about extending the railway to Asda, Corytown and building a park & ride car park nearby to reduce motorway traffic coming into Cardiff centre?

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Absolutely. I have seen the later on the electrician plans, but no one is seriously talking about any more than that. However I get comments practically every time I post anything about the line at Coryton

  • @nmarks
    @nmarks 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If all those old railway lines, the M4 and the interchange could be built in that area, then so could a connection from Coryton to Radyr. Where there's a will there's a way.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ver probably, however when they built the M4 and A470 they didn;t care as much about nature etc as they do now. They just ploughed through.

  • @martinpook5707
    @martinpook5707 หลายเดือนก่อน

    With any of these proposals it all depends on potential traffic. It's the same with connecting Aber to Carmarthen, is there enough traffic? I doubt it and the suggestion of an 80 minute journey really is pie in the sky.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Tottally agree, I can see the Velindre one being useful however

  • @christopherlloyd-roberts2205
    @christopherlloyd-roberts2205 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Loving this series as I work in the Asda and have walked the area a few times.
    I am curious about the P&R site south of the M4, where would they site it? Possibly create a multi story P&R in the Asda Carpark, it is owned by the council after all as we well know at the moment 😅
    Would it be possible to send the extension towards radyr in some way, maybe after Velindre with a spur to the P&R

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@christopherlloyd-roberts2205 I will be totally honest with you, I can't see where they would put a car park, but I have heard the P&R mentioned so many times. A multi story might work. Using a tram might allow a spur through Velindre and using the roads around Whitchurch, resulting in an interchange at Radyr. Thanks for watching.

  • @JamesWilliamson-w8y
    @JamesWilliamson-w8y หลายเดือนก่อน

    The other Coryton. Not be confused with the one in Essex.

  • @paulhowells6172
    @paulhowells6172 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree with you , the costing alone would be astronomical but the P&R should be built.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Absolutely agree, but even then I'm not sure where they would put the car park looking at the aerial maps

  • @tonychick8787
    @tonychick8787 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A fanciful idea Bob and beyond the practicalities you've outlined. Just think of the cost. There surely cannot be a net economic cost benefit. Since the TfW metro is supposedly all about integtated transport systems you could have a fleet of Clippers, for example, running between Coryton to Radyr to complete the city circle and indded connection to Llandaff North station for connection to the wider rail system.

    • @WalesRails
      @WalesRails 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Taff is completely impassable for boat passage outside of a few keys areas.
      In the Radyr area there is a tall weir and hydroelectric screw turbines and further down towards Radyr station it becomes a rapids with large rocks breaking the water surface

  • @MrReakes
    @MrReakes 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    quite agree bob but it could be done but the cost would be out of this world.

  • @patrickhill5439
    @patrickhill5439 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hi mate are you aware of culverhouse cross top of Ely and the wenvoe tunnel?

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I am, I have a list of places I want to explore and that is on there along with a visit to the people restoring Wenvoe station. The issue is time. I work full time so this is very much a hobby when I can do it.

  • @anthonypowell5665
    @anthonypowell5665 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Should have done what they proposed which was to run it as a north-south crossrail line from the proposed Jct32 P&R to Queen Street then down to Cardiff Bay

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Once the Bay link is in place who knows what the future will bring. Newport Road to Jct 32? Could happen yet.

  • @don1estelle
    @don1estelle 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    😊 thanks for the explanation!
    The Viaduct idea does seem rather fancy full and really expensive!
    Let's hope they get the the M4 Cardiff Parkway and Velindre stations built sooner than later! They should improve the visibility of the Coryton line

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They are on the plans but I think stage 1 is getting the new Metro into service before they expand.

  • @gjt2209
    @gjt2209 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Unfortunately, as can be seen on the east side of Cardiff. If there wasn’t a reason such as a coal mine, a steelworks or a factory that benefited, the money just wasn’t provided to install a station or a line. The only way I could ever see them justifying a cost of that magnitude in the future, would be to reach net zero targets, together with a campaign to make car ownership severely restricted.

  • @matthewregister6845
    @matthewregister6845 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I don't think the engineering issues you've presented are insurmountable, simply a matter of funding. The key issue that I can see is how the services would interact with the already constrained network.
    Building such a link would be pointless without an increase in services, at least 4 per hour per direction compared to the current 2. This would likely require full duling of the Coryton line (not impossible as existing trackbed still exists but certainly not cheap). Additionaly, adding an extra 4 tph/d to the section between Radyr station and a new bridge across the Taff (which is planned to handle 12 tph/d) seems a far more complex issue. Same capacity issues on the existing Rhymney line Heath Junction and of course Central/Cardiff West Junction and Queen street where the biggest capacity contraints lie.
    Just looking at the junctions between the Coryton line and Taff Vale/Rhymney lines - both will likely need to be grade separated juntions to allow for such an increase in frequency. Whilst obviously very expensive this also seems almost impossible at the Rhymney line junction without serious demolition of nearby houses (obviously this is provided the rolling stock is tram-trains/similar vehicles allowing for tighter radius and steeper inclines).
    I do feel there would be significant demand for such a service, massively improving cross city connections between the northern and western suburbs of the city and making Radyr a major junction for connections between the valleys and Northern Cardiff. However the only way this line will be well used is with 4 trains per hour per direction and the money required to achieve this simply doesn't make economic sense at the moment.
    The only way this is ever built is if its built in stages over decades.
    - Extend to J32 P&R (likely between Longwood drive and M4 due to space requirements) which will tackle one of the hurdles.
    - Introduce passing loop on Coryton line to allow for 4tph.
    - Then over decades slowly tackle the other capacity constraints on the line (these will be economically viable as they will benefit existing lines).
    - The final task will be connecting from P&R to just north of Radyr - a relatively small connection - but wouldn't expect it till like the 2070s or something lol.
    Basically I think its extremely unlikely, at least in the next 50 years. Plenty of other improvements that are easier to achieve and have better ROI (principally - increasing frequencies on the existing Coryton and city lines to 4tph)

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      There is the issue of the capacity on the Taff lines, that is about to go through the roof. I can see the Coryton line being extended but not much beyond that.

  • @zeebeezoey
    @zeebeezoey 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Honestly if a western park and ride is needed, I don't think J32 is the best option. The communities with easiest access to J32 are already quite well served by rail and could just get a train along the CVLs. Plus, a service from a potential J32 P&R along the coryton line would have to stop 8 or 9 times before getting to central cardiff. A P&R a bit further out, at J33 or J34 would better serve those areas that don't have rail service, and users could get fast trains just one stop to the city centre and on to the valley lines too. This would also have the advantage of not clogging up J32 with both P&R traffic and traffic driving into Cardiff.
    This of course is assuming there's a case for a P&R at all. There might be, but then there might not be.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  25 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There are plans for a J33 P&R as part of Cardiff Crossrail with Tram Trains coming in from the west. My thoughts on the J32 station would be where would the car park go?

    • @zeebeezoey
      @zeebeezoey 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ultimately though, any p&r on j32 would clog up the Coryton gyratory around rush hour and on match days even more than it gets now.

  • @joachimbiddulph1001
    @joachimbiddulph1001 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Radyr platform / platforms on other side of river rather than reuse much of old course ?

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There is a big gap even between there and the line at Coryton. The main issue is it's in the cutting and it's getting a line out without destroying the canal or the nature reserve.

  • @juliansadler6263
    @juliansadler6263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The Nature Reserve didn't stop the M4 motorway did it.

    • @bobsrailrelics
      @bobsrailrelics  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Nothing stopped that thing! Look at how it's sliced up Newport. However I think we have a more nuanced view these days. Or at least I hope we have.

  • @MervynPartin
    @MervynPartin 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think that your final question about it being needed is the nail in the coffin for this idea. The answer is most probably No. Also the most reliable metro systems avoid junctions and loops to avoid delays causing knock-on effects. Even London's Circle line is no longer a circle.