🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 01:28 *🔭 Introduction to the event and the speakers* - This section introduces the event, its focus on "Reading the Crisis" and the speakers, Professors Ilan Pappé and Priyamvada Gopal. - It highlights the aim of the event to discuss Stuart Hall's 1992 essay "The West and the Rest" and how it can be used to make sense of current conflicts. 03:44 *🙏 Welcoming the speakers* - This section formally introduces the two speakers, providing their backgrounds and areas of expertise. - It sets the stage for the discussion on the relevance of Hall's concept of "the West and the Rest" in the current context. 05:04 *🌍 Relevance of "the West and the Rest" concept* - Priyamvada Gopal discusses how Hall's essay, though written 30 years ago, still resonates in the current context, particularly the resurfacing of the idea of "the West" in public discourse. - She highlights the shift towards a "panic around the decline of the West" and the changing centers of power, which are not necessarily in opposition to the West. 09:13 *📚 Historical significance of Hall's essay* - Ilan Pappé emphasizes the importance of the historical knowledge and context that Hall provides in understanding the discourse of "the West and the Rest". - He argues that this discourse has had real and lasting consequences for people's lives, particularly in the context of Palestine and Israel. 15:15 *🆚 Resistance and the struggle against the "West and the Rest" narrative* - Priyamvada Gopal discusses the importance of recognizing the resistance and pushback from those who have been subjected to the "West and the Rest" discourse, such as the colonized peoples. - She highlights the heterogeneity within the "West" and the fierce pushback from the establishment when this monolith is challenged, as seen in the recent student protests. 22:43 *🔄 The dynamic nature of the "victim-victimizer" relationship* - Ilan Pappé and Priyamvada Gopal discuss the concept of the "victim becoming the victimizer," as seen in the case of Jews in Europe and the formation of the state of Israel. - They explore how one's position within the "West and the Rest" framework can change over time, highlighting the dynamic nature of this discourse. 25:25 *🌍 The West vs. The Rest in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict* - The Palestinians were treated as a typical colonized people by the British Empire, while the Jews were neither fully colonized nor part of the colonizers. - With American imperialism, the Jews were re-embraced into the West as a bastion to defend against "the rest". - The demographic influx of Arab Jews after the Holocaust created a clash between the European Jews' vision of an Americanized Israel and the traditional, religious views of the new immigrants from the Arab world. 27:34 *🔀 De-Arabizing the Arab Jews and the Social Implosion in Israel* - The Arab Jews who immigrated to Israel were seen as part of "the rest" and not the West, leading to attempts to de-Arabize them. - The clash between the European Jewish vision and the traditional, religious views of the new immigrants has created a social implosion in Israel. - The Hamas operation may have been allowed to succeed as a way to contain this social implosion within Israel. 29:17 *⚖️ The Unsustainability of Israel as a Tool of Western Imperialism* - If Israel is a tool of Western imperialism imposed on the Arab and Muslim world, it cannot sustain its existence in the long run. - Israel will have to become more organically connected to the region, even if the price is high, as the alternative is the abolition of Israel. - The decolonization of Israel will be a difficult process, but it is necessary for its long-term survival. 32:00 *🗞️ The Hypocrisy and Double Standards of Western Mainstream Media* - The mainstream media, exemplified by the New York Times, imposes restrictions on the language used to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, preventing the use of words like "genocide". - The media's coverage of the Ukraine war and the treatment of Ukrainian refugees versus Arab and Muslim refugees highlights the hypocrisy and double standards. - Alternative media has played a crucial role in providing counter-narratives and challenging the mainstream media's biases. 34:14 *🇮🇳 The Negative Sides of Decolonization: The Case of India* - The Indian media landscape is dominated by industrial houses and is largely uncritical of the current ethno-nationalist government. - Decolonization has become a project that is very different from what was initially envisioned, with entities like India and Israel claiming decolonization while embracing their own forms of racialization and extraction. - The so-called decolonizing entities are, in fact, recolonizing different populations and carrying on the torch of Western imperialism. 44:05 *🌍 The Divide Between the Civil Society Agenda and Mainstream Politics* - There is a widening gap between the civil society's agenda, which focuses on morality, ecology, and decolonization, and the agenda of mainstream politics, which is more cynical and prioritizes the division of the world into "good" and "bad" guys. - The Palestinian national movement needs to seize this moment and offer a vision for the future that connects with the intersectional struggles against injustice around the world. - Decolonization requires not just the decolonization of land, but the decolonization of the nation-state structure imposed by European imperialism. 50:26 *🌍 Challenging the "West and the Rest" model for decolonization* - The "West and the Rest" model is insufficient for envisioning true decolonization. - We need to question the right of nation-states to exist in their current forms, as they often perpetuate the marginalization of indigenous peoples. - Decolonization requires renegotiating the definitions and explanations of concepts like nationalism and the nation-state. 51:59 *🤝 The interconnectedness of Zionism and Hindu nationalism* - There are deep connections between Zionism and Hindu nationalism, including knowledge exchange, weapons sales, and political alliances. - This alliance represents the failure of the Global South to emerge as a truly decolonizing force, with many countries instead colluding with the forces of the West. - India's involvement in a settler-colonial project in Kashmir demonstrates the need to address such intersections of oppression. 54:46 *📚 Developing a vocabulary for decolonization in the 21st century* - Building a new vocabulary for decolonization is crucial, as existing terms like "decolonization" and "democracy" carry historical baggage that needs to be unpacked. - This process requires explaining the genealogy and historical context of these terms, rather than relying on simplistic definitions or sound bites. - Exploring alternative models of sovereignty and coexistence, such as those found in indigenous thought, can help redefine the relationship between nationalism, identity, and the nation-state. 01:00:06 *🌍 Redefining the nation-state and nationalism* - The nation-state model, rooted in Western liberalism, often fails to respect the right of people to maintain smaller, more particular identities and affiliations. - Exploring alternative models of sovereignty and coexistence, such as those found in indigenous thought, can offer new perspectives on how to live together in the world. - Decolonization requires challenging the lethal idea of borders and boundaries, and considering how we can live in harmony with the non-human world and the land. 01:14:58 *🌍 The worldview behind the Israel-Palestine conflict goes beyond just anti-Semitism.* - The conflict is part of a larger worldview on how societies should unfold and what the political agenda should be. - Slogans like "Palestine should be free from the River to the Sea" are misinterpreted as calls for the destruction of Israel, when they actually reflect broader aspirations for freedom and equality. - Anti-normalization comes from this deeper understanding of the worldview, which normalization efforts fail to address. 01:16:31 *🌎 Ideas for coexistence can come from diverse global sources, not just Western models.* - There are models for coexistence theorized in multiple sites around the world. - We need to put these ideas in conversation to generate planetary modes of living together. - The BRICS countries, while challenging US hegemony, are not necessarily decolonizing forces, as they still operate within the capitalist and neoliberal framework. 01:19:17 *🇵🇸 The future of Palestine looks bleak in the short term, but hopeful in the long term.* - Colonial regimes become more ruthless and brutal as they sense their collapse, which is worrying in the short term. - However, in the long term, there is hope for the end of the Zionist project and the establishment of a better, more equitable, and ecologically sustainable future for the region and the world. 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Internationalism! Haudenosaunee jurisdiction. George Manuel's 4th World. Good see these ideas in play. And very good to hear from Pappe and Gopal re: material effects and always-already resistance/response to these uneven but hegemonic conjunctions, the configurations that still persist.
While prof Gopal is not particularly objectionable in and of herself and has some important things to say, she’s emblematic of the poverty of thought in academia today. With so much theorizing happening, instead of clear thinking and a greater understanding, the result is entanglement in conceptual knots. Most of us can think of a time in our own life when we’ve repeatedly replayed and analyzed a bad personal interaction in our mind to no avail of greater clarity or the ammunition of a helpful response. It’s not that we should abandon a rigorous search for truth and frames of thought that help us in that task, but over-indulging in complicated conceptual frames often obscure rather than reveal. It’s dangerous for truth when we start to enjoy the frameworks in and of themselves rather than as a means to clarity.
Professor Gopal’s use of language is contorted and needlessly complicated - and yet her words don’t amount to much. Evidently not the case with Ilan however.
@@manuag3886 While she’s not particularly objectionable in and of herself and has some important things to say, she’s emblematic of the poverty of thought in academia today. With so much theorizing happening, instead of clear thinking and a greater understanding, the result is entanglement in conceptual knots. Most of us can think of a time in our own life when we’ve repeatedly replayed and analyzed a bad personal interaction in our mind to no avail of greater clarity or the ammunition of a helpful response. It’s not that we should abandon a rigorous search for truth and frames of thought that help us in that task, but over-indulging in complicated conceptual frames often obscure rather than reveal. It’s dangerous for truth when we start to enjoy the frameworks in and of themselves rather than as a means to clarity.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
01:28 *🔭 Introduction to the event and the speakers*
- This section introduces the event, its focus on "Reading the Crisis" and the speakers, Professors Ilan Pappé and Priyamvada Gopal.
- It highlights the aim of the event to discuss Stuart Hall's 1992 essay "The West and the Rest" and how it can be used to make sense of current conflicts.
03:44 *🙏 Welcoming the speakers*
- This section formally introduces the two speakers, providing their backgrounds and areas of expertise.
- It sets the stage for the discussion on the relevance of Hall's concept of "the West and the Rest" in the current context.
05:04 *🌍 Relevance of "the West and the Rest" concept*
- Priyamvada Gopal discusses how Hall's essay, though written 30 years ago, still resonates in the current context, particularly the resurfacing of the idea of "the West" in public discourse.
- She highlights the shift towards a "panic around the decline of the West" and the changing centers of power, which are not necessarily in opposition to the West.
09:13 *📚 Historical significance of Hall's essay*
- Ilan Pappé emphasizes the importance of the historical knowledge and context that Hall provides in understanding the discourse of "the West and the Rest".
- He argues that this discourse has had real and lasting consequences for people's lives, particularly in the context of Palestine and Israel.
15:15 *🆚 Resistance and the struggle against the "West and the Rest" narrative*
- Priyamvada Gopal discusses the importance of recognizing the resistance and pushback from those who have been subjected to the "West and the Rest" discourse, such as the colonized peoples.
- She highlights the heterogeneity within the "West" and the fierce pushback from the establishment when this monolith is challenged, as seen in the recent student protests.
22:43 *🔄 The dynamic nature of the "victim-victimizer" relationship*
- Ilan Pappé and Priyamvada Gopal discuss the concept of the "victim becoming the victimizer," as seen in the case of Jews in Europe and the formation of the state of Israel.
- They explore how one's position within the "West and the Rest" framework can change over time, highlighting the dynamic nature of this discourse.
25:25 *🌍 The West vs. The Rest in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*
- The Palestinians were treated as a typical colonized people by the British Empire, while the Jews were neither fully colonized nor part of the colonizers.
- With American imperialism, the Jews were re-embraced into the West as a bastion to defend against "the rest".
- The demographic influx of Arab Jews after the Holocaust created a clash between the European Jews' vision of an Americanized Israel and the traditional, religious views of the new immigrants from the Arab world.
27:34 *🔀 De-Arabizing the Arab Jews and the Social Implosion in Israel*
- The Arab Jews who immigrated to Israel were seen as part of "the rest" and not the West, leading to attempts to de-Arabize them.
- The clash between the European Jewish vision and the traditional, religious views of the new immigrants has created a social implosion in Israel.
- The Hamas operation may have been allowed to succeed as a way to contain this social implosion within Israel.
29:17 *⚖️ The Unsustainability of Israel as a Tool of Western Imperialism*
- If Israel is a tool of Western imperialism imposed on the Arab and Muslim world, it cannot sustain its existence in the long run.
- Israel will have to become more organically connected to the region, even if the price is high, as the alternative is the abolition of Israel.
- The decolonization of Israel will be a difficult process, but it is necessary for its long-term survival.
32:00 *🗞️ The Hypocrisy and Double Standards of Western Mainstream Media*
- The mainstream media, exemplified by the New York Times, imposes restrictions on the language used to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, preventing the use of words like "genocide".
- The media's coverage of the Ukraine war and the treatment of Ukrainian refugees versus Arab and Muslim refugees highlights the hypocrisy and double standards.
- Alternative media has played a crucial role in providing counter-narratives and challenging the mainstream media's biases.
34:14 *🇮🇳 The Negative Sides of Decolonization: The Case of India*
- The Indian media landscape is dominated by industrial houses and is largely uncritical of the current ethno-nationalist government.
- Decolonization has become a project that is very different from what was initially envisioned, with entities like India and Israel claiming decolonization while embracing their own forms of racialization and extraction.
- The so-called decolonizing entities are, in fact, recolonizing different populations and carrying on the torch of Western imperialism.
44:05 *🌍 The Divide Between the Civil Society Agenda and Mainstream Politics*
- There is a widening gap between the civil society's agenda, which focuses on morality, ecology, and decolonization, and the agenda of mainstream politics, which is more cynical and prioritizes the division of the world into "good" and "bad" guys.
- The Palestinian national movement needs to seize this moment and offer a vision for the future that connects with the intersectional struggles against injustice around the world.
- Decolonization requires not just the decolonization of land, but the decolonization of the nation-state structure imposed by European imperialism.
50:26 *🌍 Challenging the "West and the Rest" model for decolonization*
- The "West and the Rest" model is insufficient for envisioning true decolonization.
- We need to question the right of nation-states to exist in their current forms, as they often perpetuate the marginalization of indigenous peoples.
- Decolonization requires renegotiating the definitions and explanations of concepts like nationalism and the nation-state.
51:59 *🤝 The interconnectedness of Zionism and Hindu nationalism*
- There are deep connections between Zionism and Hindu nationalism, including knowledge exchange, weapons sales, and political alliances.
- This alliance represents the failure of the Global South to emerge as a truly decolonizing force, with many countries instead colluding with the forces of the West.
- India's involvement in a settler-colonial project in Kashmir demonstrates the need to address such intersections of oppression.
54:46 *📚 Developing a vocabulary for decolonization in the 21st century*
- Building a new vocabulary for decolonization is crucial, as existing terms like "decolonization" and "democracy" carry historical baggage that needs to be unpacked.
- This process requires explaining the genealogy and historical context of these terms, rather than relying on simplistic definitions or sound bites.
- Exploring alternative models of sovereignty and coexistence, such as those found in indigenous thought, can help redefine the relationship between nationalism, identity, and the nation-state.
01:00:06 *🌍 Redefining the nation-state and nationalism*
- The nation-state model, rooted in Western liberalism, often fails to respect the right of people to maintain smaller, more particular identities and affiliations.
- Exploring alternative models of sovereignty and coexistence, such as those found in indigenous thought, can offer new perspectives on how to live together in the world.
- Decolonization requires challenging the lethal idea of borders and boundaries, and considering how we can live in harmony with the non-human world and the land.
01:14:58 *🌍 The worldview behind the Israel-Palestine conflict goes beyond just anti-Semitism.*
- The conflict is part of a larger worldview on how societies should unfold and what the political agenda should be.
- Slogans like "Palestine should be free from the River to the Sea" are misinterpreted as calls for the destruction of Israel, when they actually reflect broader aspirations for freedom and equality.
- Anti-normalization comes from this deeper understanding of the worldview, which normalization efforts fail to address.
01:16:31 *🌎 Ideas for coexistence can come from diverse global sources, not just Western models.*
- There are models for coexistence theorized in multiple sites around the world.
- We need to put these ideas in conversation to generate planetary modes of living together.
- The BRICS countries, while challenging US hegemony, are not necessarily decolonizing forces, as they still operate within the capitalist and neoliberal framework.
01:19:17 *🇵🇸 The future of Palestine looks bleak in the short term, but hopeful in the long term.*
- Colonial regimes become more ruthless and brutal as they sense their collapse, which is worrying in the short term.
- However, in the long term, there is hope for the end of the Zionist project and the establishment of a better, more equitable, and ecologically sustainable future for the region and the world.
Made with HARPA AI
Great discussion. Thank you for this.
Taliban agrees
Wonderful discussion! Thank You!!
Insightful conversation! Thank you Professors, Gopal and Pappé respectively and the Stuart Hall Foundation.
Trash the western culture that had given these two individuals freedom to say what they want. Sad.
@@123axel123 don't be a troll you are suffering because you recognize your moral failures!
@@fernandoalbertobarbosadoss8013 I have a different opinion. That makes me a troll for you leftwingers. I suppose Modi is a white nationalist too
@@123axel123 cowards believe that leftwinger is an insult? how naive of you
@@fernandoalbertobarbosadoss8013 Where am I using leftwinger as an insult? You are making as dumb arguments as the two jokers that speak on the video
Professor Gopal thank you.
Internationalism! Haudenosaunee jurisdiction. George Manuel's 4th World. Good see these ideas in play. And very good to hear from Pappe and Gopal re: material effects and always-already resistance/response to these uneven but hegemonic conjunctions, the configurations that still persist.
While prof Gopal is not particularly objectionable in and of herself and has some important things to say, she’s emblematic of the poverty of thought in academia today. With so much theorizing happening, instead of clear thinking and a greater understanding, the result is entanglement in conceptual knots. Most of us can think of a time in our own life when we’ve repeatedly replayed and analyzed a bad personal interaction in our mind to no avail of greater clarity or the ammunition of a helpful response. It’s not that we should abandon a rigorous search for truth and frames of thought that help us in that task, but over-indulging in complicated conceptual frames often obscure rather than reveal. It’s dangerous for truth when we start to enjoy the frameworks in and of themselves rather than as a means to clarity.
Professor Gopal’s use of language is contorted and needlessly complicated - and yet her words don’t amount to much. Evidently not the case with Ilan however.
I think she just has a more explicitly theoretical focus
@@manuag3886 While she’s not particularly objectionable in and of herself and has some important things to say, she’s emblematic of the poverty of thought in academia today. With so much theorizing happening, instead of clear thinking and a greater understanding, the result is entanglement in conceptual knots. Most of us can think of a time in our own life when we’ve repeatedly replayed and analyzed a bad personal interaction in our mind to no avail of greater clarity or the ammunition of a helpful response. It’s not that we should abandon a rigorous search for truth and frames of thought that help us in that task, but over-indulging in complicated conceptual frames often obscure rather than reveal. It’s dangerous for truth when we start to enjoy the frameworks in and of themselves rather than as a means to clarity.
I can understand her perfectly.