Hey me again! I was at an airshow in my youth and actually met (though I can't recall the name) a Mosquito pilot whom was assigned 618 Squadron whom along with their aircraft sailed in Dec 1944 with the carrier HMS Striker and HMS Fencer to the Pacific for operations against Japanese capitol ships using the "Highball" devices now he was of the opinion that it could of been done and to great effect he was however quote "Bloody thankful not to have done it though". What is your opinion of the Mosquito as a potenical carrier aircraft (as they did make a carrier vairant) as he was also of the opinion "that had we had angled flight decks and a big enough ship, they could have been as good as the Bucks on the old Ark" obviously referring the Buccaneers aboard the post war HMS Ark Royal (R09). Your thoughts? Also I heard through a different source (TH-cam interview) of the Mosquito being used against the Communist Chinese forces by the opposing side in the late 40s and subsequently sinking many landing ships in a certain operation. Are you aware of this and if I can find any more info (which I'm sure I can), ask if you know anything about this operation. Besides the anecdotal source from an interview I have been unable to substantiate this event. Edit: Its this Interview of Mossie pilot George Stewart were I got this info (link bellow) but I can't find any info on the specific action he's referring to, it was a thousand vessel strong "invasion fleet" of which Mossies allegedly sank or set fire to half of said fleet so imagine I would fairly not worthy but I've turned up nothing, any clues on it or where to look for info on it? th-cam.com/video/gMyiggraw4s/w-d-xo.html PS sorry if this steps out of the naval field, and if thats the case please let me know and I'll understand if these prove to be untestable questions. Keep up the great content! And sorry for the long post. :)
First heard about these in the Aubrey-Maturin series, when Aubrey commanded hms Worchester. (One of the 40 thieves is fiction) Could you do a video on the Aubrey-Maturin series?
A rather off-the-wall question here; why is there a quarterdeck but no halfdeck (or thirddeck or eigthdeck) and a fo'cstle but no sterncastle (or would that be st'cstle)?
While not really related to this particular video it is fun to note that with tomorrow being the anniversary of the battle, the SMS Sharnhorst has been found : www.maritime-executive.com/article/wreck-of-famed-wwi-heavy-cruiser-sms-scharnhorst-discovered
Wait, “green stuff”? How in the name of Guilliman’s gallbladder did a bunch of 18th century grafters get access to a Games Workshop store 200 years before those were a thing?!
"The world has seen its iron age, its silver age, its golden age, and its brazen age. This is the age of shoddy." ~ New York Herald editorial, June 1863.
Bill Cunningham Shoddy was a shoe company during the Am. Civil War. Their shoes fell apart during the first march or so. THIS is why a government contract has to be VERY specific as to the specs. ie. I heard many years ago that the contract for chocolate brownies is many pages long to be sure they get what they are paying for.
@@samiam619 I am aware of the contract which Shoddy received- and when the Army complained that the soles of the boots fell off after a few miles march, the response from Shoddy was- "They were meant for the cavalry." That said, 'Shoddy' entered the American language to mean something made poorly just to pad someone's pockets. It was an easy connection to make from this video- the making of the 40 thieves was much akin to the unscrupulous business antics that American industry foisted upon the hapless US government of the time.
Thanks Drach Looks like things haven't changed much in all the years since the 40 thieves were built. Contractors still have "Cost over runs" and use substandard material whenever they can get away with it.
This is why I love your channel. 65 year old here, whose been a lover of Naval history since I learned to read, yet you constantly present areas that I'm not aware of, forcing me to research further. Which believe me, at my age, it's truly welcome.
And the msm reporting has been littered with errors. The Express managed to call her a Battleship (um, no, she was a cruiser), and stated that the Royal Navy had been defeated previously off the Falklands (um, no, Coronel was on the other side of the continent). A quick Wiki search could have put it straight in just five minutes.
Brazilian media was surprisingly accurate this time, actually calling her a armoured cruiser or just a cruiser and mentioning Coronel correctly and that in her last battle invincible and inflexible jad played a major role
Hey Drach, I was the one who recommended merch with the Beatty quote and the exploding battlecruiser. I think it would also be a good design, if you replace Beattys quote with one of the lyrics of your song. „Some flashdoors would be nice“, would also be a great fit on a t-shirt.
Excellent video, but shorter than I was hoping for. Fortunately Big Car and Count Binface have uploaded new videos, so I can watch them as well in the time I allocated to watch Drach.
And what about the best of this genre? The Nathaniel Drinkwater series of novels by Richard Woodman. Well written, gripping stuff. And he goes to Copenhagen with Nelson! If you haven't read them, you've missed a real treat!
Have you thought of doing a video on the R.R.S. Discovery? Very cool ship that is currently a museum in Dundee. It was used for antarctic expeditions and is still in very good shape.
HMS Rodney was one of the Surveyors-class, she was commissioned in 1809 and taken out of service in 1812 since the poor timber she was built with was already rotting
I live in the People’s Republic of California. I fork over about 60% of my paycheck in taxes to pay for Medicare, welfare and the rest. I will likely never get a single cent of it back in any form, considering how fast the state is running out of money.
@@8bitorgy I know man, I'm from the Netherlands where we have the 2nd highest costs healthcare per capita of the world, it is pretty good though, maybe on of the best, and available for everyone with very good doctors overall. Only country with higher cost per GDP is a weird little country like the US of A. You have a serious efficiency problem over there, and an insanely powerful pharmacy lobby. Will never say that government involvement is perse an improvement, but a bit more legislation to weed out malpractice might not be worst idea ever.
Its not universal healthcare itself that's the problem. Several Asian and European countries have it with no issues. US of A just don't know how to run a efficient government spending. Look at their expensive cancelled military projects, colleges, healthcare, and insurance. You either pay a bunch to private enterprises or pay a bunch to the government. The way I see it, the US keeps playing around with the idea but never commits to it and create a haphazard program that achieves nothing. You can apply this to all the stuff I listed and it'll become apparent.
It wasn't just the French who had problems with their ship builders! The US Navy had similar problems with ship building. The navy yards were generally more efficient and had more experienced craftsmen on hand. Plus, if there were design changes they were more easily made without additional cost. Cramp and Sons was one of the better shipbuilders and he had a positive effect on the Navy. Cramp made changes to engine room layout where he recommended alternating engine and boiler rooms for instance. They were later taken over by a different company and built ships during WW2. New York shipbuilding was also a good company known for it's high quality work. And of course the New London shipbuilders were famous for building submarines and still make them today. It's noteworthy to mention that the most successful companies were also the most honest, and thus deserve their reputations.
I didn't get a notification on this. Luckily it popped up in my recommendations. EDIT: Never mind. The notification popped up after I watched the video. 😏
The many iterations of the WWII rebuilds of the Wickes and Clemson class four pipe, flush deck destroyers would make and interesting topic. High speed transports, destroyer Minesweepers (ala the fictitious US S Caine of "The Caine Mutiny") and even seaplane tenders, not to mention the 50 that went to the UK as RN escorts. Some were even used as fast banana boats after being sold out to merchant service.
it awlays surprise me how lenient british can be sometimes. any sane monarch would line up all of the comercial dockyard ( one at first ) and hang them , from the owner , to managers , to workers and dogs for good mesuare . You would expect very sharp improvment in build quality for the rest of the ships after this penal action :D
Interesting about the costs of government contracts. Some years ago I read about a documentary film maker who early in his career made a film for the then British government. But when he submitted his bill he was payed only half of it. When he asked about the full payment he was told that this was standard procedure pay only half because the government wanted to cut costs. By the time his next contract came around he had learned something from other film makers and submitted a bill which was twice what it cost to make. They again only paid half which meant he got this time he was paid in full.
@@johnshepherd8687 no, that is a cover to feed a bloated military industrial complex that heaven forbid anyone say we have to cut. Just remember, though, we can't afford healthcare but we can operate over a dozen super aircraft carriers.
False, that's how the Navy funds its special programs. How do I know besides the book? Back in the day I was read into Special Navy. One of programs I worked on was for an black ASW system. We used a program called horizontal lines array, a system that was technologically infeasible, to fund the program. As far as healthcare goes healthcare is not a core government function. Defense is. Pro tip: I am federal retiree over the age of 65 and I am not on Medicare beyond the legal requirement of Part A. In socialized systems there is a priveledged class that gets real healthcare and rest of you gets what left. My guess is you are not of the privileged class either on the current or any future system.
Thank you so much for your videos. How much shorter the 19th century citation than the 21st c's translation! A wish for christmas: more sail era videos and, please, your view on the 1801 and 1807 battles of Copenhagen.
I see from the comments other Patrick O'Brian fans and could *swear* the description of a 40 thieves ship was lifted directly from The Ionian Mission...well...or O'Brian lifted it for The Ionian Mission 😂
On line the word treenail gets the tree-nail pronunciation. I have never met a user of said item implemment that pronunciation. I follow the old timers in saying tren-l. Perhaps there are some trad boat builders and gate makers who would like to add their two-penneth. Maybe making and using them (very satisfying) alters your outlook and vocabulary.
H M S *Blenheim* * Named after the Battle of Blenheim and Blenheim Palace ( home to the Duke of Marlborough {aka the Spencer - Churchill family} birthplace of Winston Churchill ).
Re the opening title: Why did early 20th century naval powers dispose of cardboard recycling by the use of main battery broadsides? Did carronades use recycle cardboard as wadding to increase velocity, hence range? Seriously, an excellent collection of naval knowledge that rolls out at an astonishing rate.Get some paint and stencil a big E on whatever you use to put it together.
Yes they did - but it was usually a bit late once the ship was built - that ship was needed at sea now, not tied up and deteriorating whilst a court case was being deliberately dragged out. Plus the shipyard owners usually had friends in high places, or were in high places, having brought the local election. Plus there was a bit of 'you didn't see that DID YOU' going on - the people from the RN Shipyards doing the surveying were not going to have to go to sea or fight in them. Corruption was very much a thing in this era, although the RN was one of the least corrupt areas of society, storms, hurricanes and the enmey being essentially un-bribable. Dockyard salaries were set with the expectation that they would be made up through 'Capabar' (spelt wrong) - corruption and theft withing certain traditional limits. Those outside the navy were scandalised when they couldn't simply buy their nephew (IIRC from the incident I have in mind) a promotion. These ships had a reputation for doing things like falling apart in storms, but then who cares if some poor people commanded by Middle Class nobodies disappear without any embarrassing evidence being left around?
I remember from the Patrick O’Brian novels (Fiction obviously) he said that the copper fastening bolts used on the ‘forty thieves’ ships was often not attached internally. That due to the relatively high price of copper the ship builders put the end fittings on to make it look correct but had stolen much of the internal bolt copper. Of course in a big wind this would allow the seams of the ship to open. I was wondering if this was true?
Esteemed Mr. Drachinifel ! I've been following your channel with some interest these last months and I really appreciate your work. Being a curious sort I have wondered about your name; What does it mean ? Where is it from ? In this video your pronunciation of the word 'deliberated' at 3:16 had me wondering (www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=deliberating). You seem to put the stress on the wrong syllable suggesting that you are either unfamiliar with the word or not a native English speaker. Let me hurry to say that I think your spoken English is very good and that I myself am half British & half Norwegian, and my spoken English is AWFUL so this is not about that - as I said : I am just curious :-) Anyhow : Merry Christmas & keep up your excellent work ! It's guys like you who make TH-cam an interesting place :-) from a Norwegian woodworker
Lucky they came in too late for the war, it no doubt saved a lot of British sailors' their lives. That fact also helped to cover the boondoggle in their construction. Great story, it was all new to me but my focus is pre-1812 so I'm not surprised I'd never come across it. Thanks for updating my knowledge bank.
40 Thieves, an apt nickname. A bit of history that I had no idea existed, though corruption (i.e. 'cost overruns') has been around as long as man has been building ships or anything else under government contract.
@@bigblue6917 The story in The 1001 Tales is "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves." "Open Sesame" is the magical password to open the thieves' hideout in that story.
The best modern US Navy Surface combatants were built at the Bath Iron Works, a private yard. Some of the worst were built by Marinette Marine, also a private yard.
It was the Royal Navy's fault if they had regularly bought commercially built ship's the builders would have been looking for long term relationships instead of short term profiteering. Of course instead of trying to get the money back press ganging the thieves running the civilian yards sounds like an effective punishment.
There was a very good reason that the RN didn't buy commercially - relatively few yards could build ships this big, at least previous to this time. Remember that a 80 gun ship was 'to big' for the technology of the time. And in peacetime the contracts would have been so infrequent that any long-term relationship would have been a series of short-term contracts. The RN dockyards were needed to provide capacity to deal with wartime repairs so it made sense to also build whole ships there, especially when a 'Great Repair' was often close to 'take it all apart and build a new one'. Also they knew from past experience about the quality and corruption issues, both with previous shipbuilding contracts and with things like Victualling. Victualling was for a long time contracted out as 'long term arrangements' but, many poisoned and starved crews and a lot of 'improving the inspection' attempts later, brought in-house. Part of the problem was that corruption wasn't just at the top - there was a reason why the Royal Yards had large walls around them and guards, and it wasn't foreign attack - stuff had a habit of disappearing and workers purses getting heavier. The commercial yards had this problem when they were dealing with items of the quality that the RN demanded or supplied, which was, by necessity (Ships of War being at sea when any sensible Trader was in port) much better than that usually used in the commercial trade. Any long-term contract wouldn't have been a long term contract with the workmen. The commercial just weren't set up with the measures to reduce this theft - which were not needed (at the same level at least) for commercial work and would have added to costs which would have impacted competitiveness for commercial work.
@@rickansell661 Ropes made for the Royal Navy had a coloured strand woven into them known as the 'Rogue's Yarn' because it allowed the rope to be identified as RN property if it got stolen
Esteemed Mr. Drachinifel ! I've been following your channel with some interest these last months and I really appreciate your work. Being a curious sort I have wondered about your name; What does it mean ? Where is it from ? In this video your pronunciation of the word 'deliberated' at 3:17 had me wondering (www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=deliberating). You seem to put the stress on the wrong syllable suggesting that you are either unfamiliar with the word or not a native English speaker. Let me hurry to say that I think your spoken English is very good and that I myself am half British & half Norwegian, and my spoken English is AWFUL so this is not about that - as I said : I am just curious :-) Anyhow : Merry Christmas & keep up your excellent work ! It's guys like you who make TH-cam an interesting place :-) from a Norwegian woodworker
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Hey me again! I was at an airshow in my youth and actually met (though I can't recall the name) a Mosquito pilot whom was assigned 618 Squadron whom along with their aircraft sailed in Dec 1944 with the carrier HMS Striker and HMS Fencer to the Pacific for operations against Japanese capitol ships using the "Highball" devices now he was of the opinion that it could of been done and to great effect he was however quote "Bloody thankful not to have done it though". What is your opinion of the Mosquito as a potenical carrier aircraft (as they did make a carrier vairant) as he was also of the opinion "that had we had angled flight decks and a big enough ship, they could have been as good as the Bucks on the old Ark" obviously referring the Buccaneers aboard the post war HMS Ark Royal (R09). Your thoughts?
Also I heard through a different source (TH-cam interview) of the Mosquito being used against the Communist Chinese forces by the opposing side in the late 40s and subsequently sinking many landing ships in a certain operation. Are you aware of this and if I can find any more info (which I'm sure I can), ask if you know anything about this operation. Besides the anecdotal source from an interview I have been unable to substantiate this event.
Edit: Its this Interview of Mossie pilot George Stewart were I got this info (link bellow) but I can't find any info on the specific action he's referring to, it was a thousand vessel strong "invasion fleet" of which Mossies allegedly sank or set fire to half of said fleet so imagine I would fairly not worthy but I've turned up nothing, any clues on it or where to look for info on it?
th-cam.com/video/gMyiggraw4s/w-d-xo.html
PS sorry if this steps out of the naval field, and if thats the case please let me know and I'll understand if these prove to be untestable questions. Keep up the great content! And sorry for the long post. :)
First heard about these in the Aubrey-Maturin series, when Aubrey commanded hms Worchester. (One of the 40 thieves is fiction) Could you do a video on the Aubrey-Maturin series?
A rather off-the-wall question here; why is there a quarterdeck but no halfdeck (or thirddeck or eigthdeck) and a fo'cstle but no sterncastle (or would that be st'cstle)?
Hey, has there been any ships in ww1 or 2 that have rammed the enemy and boarded to fight like in old sailing ship tales?
While not really related to this particular video it is fun to note that with tomorrow being the anniversary of the battle, the SMS Sharnhorst has been found : www.maritime-executive.com/article/wreck-of-famed-wwi-heavy-cruiser-sms-scharnhorst-discovered
"Kind donations from the French & Spanish"... It's the season for giving!
Christmas came early
Somehow I get the feeling that the " donations " were somewhat be grudging. LOL
"Once You Have Their Money, You Never Give It Back." 1st Rule of Acquisition.
Wait, “green stuff”? How in the name of Guilliman’s gallbladder did a bunch of 18th century grafters get access to a Games Workshop store 200 years before those were a thing?!
They were very resourceful.
There are five fundamental forces in the universe. Gravity, electromagnetism, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and copyright law.
They had to get their pricing model somewhere.
@@barleysixseventwo6665 this comment is massively underappreciated.
"The world has seen its iron age, its silver age, its golden age, and its brazen age. This is the age of shoddy." ~ New York Herald editorial, June 1863.
Bill Cunningham Shoddy was a shoe company during the Am. Civil War. Their shoes fell apart during the first march or so. THIS is why a government contract has to be VERY specific as to the specs. ie. I heard many years ago that the contract for chocolate brownies is many pages long to be sure they get what they are paying for.
@@samiam619 I am aware of the contract which Shoddy received- and when the Army complained that the soles of the boots fell off after a few miles march, the response from Shoddy was- "They were meant for the cavalry." That said, 'Shoddy' entered the American language to mean something made poorly just to pad someone's pockets. It was an easy connection to make from this video- the making of the 40 thieves was much akin to the unscrupulous business antics that American industry foisted upon the hapless US government of the time.
@@VintageCarHistory Which is interesting because there doesn't seem to be any evidence for that hilarious story.
If you don't call your patreon donations "shipping charges" you've missed a beautiful pun.
Thanks Drach
Looks like things haven't changed much in all the years since the 40 thieves were built. Contractors still have "Cost over runs" and use substandard material whenever they can get away with it.
Got to get that so called private enterprise efficiency up somewhere. How else do they make so much profit?
This is why I love your channel.
65 year old here, whose been a lover of Naval history since I learned to read, yet you constantly present areas that I'm not aware of, forcing me to research further.
Which believe me, at my age, it's truly welcome.
The SMS Scharnhorst's wreck has been found!
And the msm reporting has been littered with errors.
The Express managed to call her a Battleship (um, no, she was a cruiser), and stated that the Royal Navy had been defeated previously off the Falklands (um, no, Coronel was on the other side of the continent).
A quick Wiki search could have put it straight in just five minutes.
@@mikereger1186
German media was not much better...
Brazilian media was surprisingly accurate this time, actually calling her a armoured cruiser or just a cruiser and mentioning Coronel correctly and that in her last battle invincible and inflexible jad played a major role
@@fernandomarques5166
Label me impressed
I wanted to say that too. I got notified on my phone about it. My source was from BBC and iirc it got the information correct, mentioning Coronel.
Now IMHO that was a cracking good episode, even allowing for the very high quality of the channel overall...thanks!
Agreed!
The Ionian Mission quotes.
“Puddings, my dear sir?' cried Graham.
Puddings. We trice 'em athwart the starboard gumbrils, when sailing by and large.”
YES. I'm rereading The Ionian Mission right now. You have great taste in reading 🙌
Sounds like a General Dynamics built.
Thanks Drachinifel!
🤣😂🤣
lmao the burn! I love it.
Hey Drach, I was the one who recommended merch with the Beatty quote and the exploding battlecruiser. I think it would also be a good design, if you replace Beattys quote with one of the lyrics of your song. „Some flashdoors would be nice“, would also be a great fit on a t-shirt.
I may be pushing 30, but I'm still a 12 year old at heart.
I will always giggle when I hear someone say "Poop deck".
Drach, this is still one of your best videos.
I get irrationally sad when 5 minute guides are less than 15 minutes long.
Well it doesn't happen to often. And you can always re-watch it a later.
Excellent video, but shorter than I was hoping for. Fortunately Big Car and Count Binface have uploaded new videos, so I can watch them as well in the time I allocated to watch Drach.
+Kyle
Drach is undercompensating after talking 2+ hours on the Drydock episode
Just watch them 3 times, you'll soon be smiling again.
Reading the comments, I expected O'brien to come up, Kent not so much, an NEVER expected someone to quote Ferengi RoA... :)
And what about the best of this genre? The Nathaniel Drinkwater series of novels by Richard Woodman. Well written, gripping stuff. And he goes to Copenhagen with Nelson! If you haven't read them, you've missed a real treat!
Have you thought of doing a video on the R.R.S. Discovery? Very cool ship that is currently a museum in Dundee. It was used for antarctic expeditions and is still in very good shape.
HMS Rodney was one of the Surveyors-class, she was commissioned in 1809 and taken out of service in 1812 since the poor timber she was built with was already rotting
Nothing is as expensive as a goverment trying to save money :).
Except universal health care... If y'all want to cough up more than half your paycheck that's your business
oh the increase in taxes on us poor lad 😂
I live in the People’s Republic of California. I fork over about 60% of my paycheck in taxes to pay for Medicare, welfare and the rest. I will likely never get a single cent of it back in any form, considering how fast the state is running out of money.
@@8bitorgy I know man, I'm from the Netherlands where we have the 2nd highest costs healthcare per capita of the world, it is pretty good though, maybe on of the best, and available for everyone with very good doctors overall. Only country with higher cost per GDP is a weird little country like the US of A. You have a serious efficiency problem over there, and an insanely powerful pharmacy lobby. Will never say that government involvement is perse an improvement, but a bit more legislation to weed out malpractice might not be worst idea ever.
Its not universal healthcare itself that's the problem. Several Asian and European countries have it with no issues. US of A just don't know how to run a efficient government spending. Look at their expensive cancelled military projects, colleges, healthcare, and insurance.
You either pay a bunch to private enterprises or pay a bunch to the government. The way I see it, the US keeps playing around with the idea but never commits to it and create a haphazard program that achieves nothing. You can apply this to all the stuff I listed and it'll become apparent.
The fictional 41st, “the rotten old Worcester “ graced the pages of Patrick O’Brien ‘s novel “The Ionian Mission “.
It wasn't just the French who had problems with their ship builders! The US Navy had similar problems with ship building. The navy yards were generally more efficient and had more experienced craftsmen on hand. Plus, if there were design changes they were more easily made without additional cost. Cramp and Sons was one of the better shipbuilders and he had a positive effect on the Navy. Cramp made changes to engine room layout where he recommended alternating engine and boiler rooms for instance. They were later taken over by a different company and built ships during WW2. New York shipbuilding was also a good company known for it's high quality work. And of course the New London shipbuilders were famous for building submarines and still make them today. It's noteworthy to mention that the most successful companies were also the most honest, and thus deserve their reputations.
I didn't get a notification on this. Luckily it popped up in my recommendations.
EDIT: Never mind. The notification popped up after I watched the video. 😏
Yes, me as well. But I was scrolling youtube anyway :-)
I have had that happen to me a few times.
I think we've all had this problem.
@@bigblue6917 New one on me.
This did not even show up in my subscriptions tab. I found it randomly scrolling.
You're probably gonna reach 100k before christmas! Silver play button as a christmas present is awesome!
The many iterations of the WWII rebuilds of the Wickes and Clemson class four pipe, flush deck destroyers would make and interesting topic. High speed transports, destroyer Minesweepers (ala the fictitious US S Caine of "The Caine Mutiny") and even seaplane tenders, not to mention the 50 that went to the UK as RN escorts. Some were even used as fast banana boats after being sold out to merchant service.
it awlays surprise me how lenient british can be sometimes.
any sane monarch would line up all of the comercial dockyard ( one at first ) and hang them , from the owner , to managers , to workers and dogs for good mesuare . You would expect very sharp improvment in build quality for the rest of the ships after this penal action :D
Murderous Kitten - Ironically, Samuel Pepys might be considered the father of modern QA...
I remember Jack Aubrey was captain of one of those :)
Yes, the HMS Worcester. 👍
Anyone else reminded of a more modern class... the type 21 frigate?? 😁
also worth a Drach review, one of the worst post cold war designs. Although they did give good service
Also the USS Gerald Ford class CVN and most submarine programs, the F-22 and F-35 aircraft … nearly EVERY military / government contracted program.
Robert F Hey! The F-22 is great, as is the Ford-class. It’s only the F-35 that’s shit.
@@robertf3479 Ford had typical first in class problems, F-22 has done very well and despite the absurd BS bad press the F-35 is also excellent.
Interesting about the costs of government contracts. Some years ago I read about a documentary film maker who early in his career made a film for the then British government. But when he submitted his bill he was payed only half of it. When he asked about the full payment he was told that this was standard procedure pay only half because the government wanted to cut costs. By the time his next contract came around he had learned something from other film makers and submitted a bill which was twice what it cost to make. They again only paid half which meant he got this time he was paid in full.
Meanwhile in 'murica, contractors are charging $500 per BOLT and no one bats an eye.
That was a cover for funding Special Navy programs. See the book "Blindman's Bluff."
@@johnshepherd8687 no, that is a cover to feed a bloated military industrial complex that heaven forbid anyone say we have to cut.
Just remember, though, we can't afford healthcare but we can operate over a dozen super aircraft carriers.
False, that's how the Navy funds its special programs. How do I know besides the book? Back in the day I was read into Special Navy. One of programs I worked on was for an black ASW system. We used a program called horizontal lines array, a system that was technologically infeasible, to fund the program.
As far as healthcare goes healthcare is not a core government function. Defense is.
Pro tip: I am federal retiree over the age of 65 and I am not on Medicare beyond the legal requirement of Part A. In socialized systems there is a priveledged class that gets real healthcare and rest of you gets what left. My guess is you are not of the privileged class either on the current or any future system.
Kind donations of the French and Spanish navies.............
Well as the French sailors spent most of their time ashore it's not like they were using them.
How about a story on the Dunkirk little ships
Thank you so much for your videos. How much shorter the 19th century citation than the 21st c's translation! A wish for christmas: more sail era videos and, please, your view on the 1801 and 1807 battles of Copenhagen.
is it a coincidence that this video was uploaded on the day that sparked America's industrial might?
I see from the comments other Patrick O'Brian fans and could *swear* the description of a 40 thieves ship was lifted directly from The Ionian Mission...well...or O'Brian lifted it for The Ionian Mission 😂
On line the word treenail gets the tree-nail pronunciation. I have never met a user of said item implemment that pronunciation. I follow the old timers in saying tren-l.
Perhaps there are some trad boat builders and gate makers who would like to add their two-penneth.
Maybe making and using them (very satisfying) alters your outlook and vocabulary.
Rawalpindi and Jervis Bay please
Definitely 👍
Oh the Blenum, after USS Enterprise CV-6 she would be the first ship I go back and save.
I put her in fourth. HMS Warspite is first (the WW1 era bb), USS Enterprise CV- 6 second, The Golden Hind (Drakes flag ship) third, then the Blenum.
H M S *Blenheim* *
Named after the Battle of Blenheim and Blenheim Palace ( home to the Duke of Marlborough {aka the Spencer - Churchill family} birthplace of Winston Churchill ).
Re the opening title: Why did early 20th century naval powers dispose of cardboard recycling by the use of main battery broadsides? Did carronades use recycle cardboard as wadding to increase velocity, hence range?
Seriously, an excellent collection of naval knowledge that rolls out at an astonishing rate.Get some paint and stencil a big E on whatever you use to put it together.
How kind of the French and Spanish Navies to contribute their ships to the Royal Navy
did they have trouble with ships named ali baba
The French Navy, building ship for the Royal Navy since the 16th century
When you have to arm the poop deck ... shit is gonna get real.
I can't imagine how much it would cost to build a sailboat today using copper nails.
I-400 series Japanese super submarines would be good subject matter.
I feel robbed! a 5 minute video that only lasts 8 minutes? LOL
How did the Royal navy limit corrupt shipyard practices. Didn't they survey the ships before acceptance?
Yes they did - but it was usually a bit late once the ship was built - that ship was needed at sea now, not tied up and deteriorating whilst a court case was being deliberately dragged out. Plus the shipyard owners usually had friends in high places, or were in high places, having brought the local election. Plus there was a bit of 'you didn't see that DID YOU' going on - the people from the RN Shipyards doing the surveying were not going to have to go to sea or fight in them.
Corruption was very much a thing in this era, although the RN was one of the least corrupt areas of society, storms, hurricanes and the enmey being essentially un-bribable. Dockyard salaries were set with the expectation that they would be made up through 'Capabar' (spelt wrong) - corruption and theft withing certain traditional limits. Those outside the navy were scandalised when they couldn't simply buy their nephew (IIRC from the incident I have in mind) a promotion. These ships had a reputation for doing things like falling apart in storms, but then who cares if some poor people commanded by Middle Class nobodies disappear without any embarrassing evidence being left around?
@@rickansell661 Thanks Rick.
0:56 God helps those that help themselves.
Well, it's not like they were using them for anything useful.
I remember from the Patrick O’Brian novels (Fiction obviously) he said that the copper fastening bolts used on the ‘forty thieves’ ships was often not attached internally. That due to the relatively high price of copper the ship builders put the end fittings on to make it look correct but had stolen much of the internal bolt copper. Of course in a big wind this would allow the seams of the ship to open. I was wondering if this was true?
Esteemed Mr. Drachinifel !
I've been following your channel with some interest these last months and I really appreciate your work. Being a curious sort I have wondered about your name; What does it mean ? Where is it from ? In this video your pronunciation of the word 'deliberated' at 3:16 had me wondering (www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=deliberating). You seem to put the stress on the wrong syllable suggesting that you are either unfamiliar with the word or not a native English speaker. Let me hurry to say that I think your spoken English is very good and that I myself am half British & half Norwegian, and my spoken English is AWFUL so this is not about that - as I said : I am just curious :-)
Anyhow : Merry Christmas & keep up your excellent work ! It's guys like you who make TH-cam an interesting place :-)
from a Norwegian woodworker
8:03 - Trenail, pronounced "tree-nail"
Lucky they came in too late for the war, it no doubt saved a lot of British sailors' their lives. That fact also helped to cover the boondoggle in their construction.
Great story, it was all new to me but my focus is pre-1812 so I'm not surprised I'd never come across it. Thanks for updating my knowledge bank.
In German, the tale of Aladdin actually is about 40 "robbers", not thieves.
40 Thieves, an apt nickname. A bit of history that I had no idea existed, though corruption (i.e. 'cost overruns') has been around as long as man has been building ships or anything else under government contract.
Damn commercial yards! Can never trust them even when the nation is at risk.
Where's Aladdin
Or Ali Baba even.
@@Philistine47 Ali Baba? Didn't he get caught trying to rob a bank? He was stood outside the vault door shouting 'Open Sesame.'
@@bigblue6917 The story in The 1001 Tales is "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves." "Open Sesame" is the magical password to open the thieves' hideout in that story.
Planned obsolescence and $20,000 coffee maker mentality,
British shipyards were ahead of their time!
Why they painted like American ships? o_0
The Nelson Checker was popular during, but wasn't standardized until after the Napoleonic Wars.
So, it turns out, privatization has always been a bad idea.
The best modern US Navy Surface combatants were built at the Bath Iron Works, a private yard. Some of the worst were built by Marinette Marine, also a private yard.
@@johnshepherd8687 seeing how the US doesn't actually HAVE federally owned naval yards building ships to compare it to, your point is moot.
The US Navy has historically used both. Production was completely privatized in the 1960s. And even the Navy used contract labor.
first
What prize do I get Drach?
second
Third
I can give you a WOWS starter code if you like....
It was the Royal Navy's fault if they had regularly bought commercially built ship's the builders would have been looking for long term relationships instead of short term profiteering. Of course instead of trying to get the money back press ganging the thieves running the civilian yards sounds like an effective punishment.
There was a very good reason that the RN didn't buy commercially - relatively few yards could build ships this big, at least previous to this time. Remember that a 80 gun ship was 'to big' for the technology of the time. And in peacetime the contracts would have been so infrequent that any long-term relationship would have been a series of short-term contracts. The RN dockyards were needed to provide capacity to deal with wartime repairs so it made sense to also build whole ships there, especially when a 'Great Repair' was often close to 'take it all apart and build a new one'.
Also they knew from past experience about the quality and corruption issues, both with previous shipbuilding contracts and with things like Victualling. Victualling was for a long time contracted out as 'long term arrangements' but, many poisoned and starved crews and a lot of 'improving the inspection' attempts later, brought in-house. Part of the problem was that corruption wasn't just at the top - there was a reason why the Royal Yards had large walls around them and guards, and it wasn't foreign attack - stuff had a habit of disappearing and workers purses getting heavier. The commercial yards had this problem when they were dealing with items of the quality that the RN demanded or supplied, which was, by necessity (Ships of War being at sea when any sensible Trader was in port) much better than that usually used in the commercial trade. Any long-term contract wouldn't have been a long term contract with the workmen. The commercial just weren't set up with the measures to reduce this theft - which were not needed (at the same level at least) for commercial work and would have added to costs which would have impacted competitiveness for commercial work.
@@rickansell661 Ropes made for the Royal Navy had a coloured strand woven into them known as the 'Rogue's Yarn' because it allowed the rope to be identified as RN property if it got stolen
Esteemed Mr. Drachinifel !
I've been following your channel with some interest these last months and I really appreciate your work. Being a curious sort I have wondered about your name; What does it mean ? Where is it from ? In this video your pronunciation of the word 'deliberated' at 3:17 had me wondering (www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=deliberating). You seem to put the stress on the wrong syllable suggesting that you are either unfamiliar with the word or not a native English speaker. Let me hurry to say that I think your spoken English is very good and that I myself am half British & half Norwegian, and my spoken English is AWFUL so this is not about that - as I said : I am just curious :-)
Anyhow : Merry Christmas & keep up your excellent work ! It's guys like you who make TH-cam an interesting place :-)
from a Norwegian woodworker