This microprocessor is the result of reverse engineering of the Intel 8088. It was created by the team of Alfred Vitoldovich Kobylinsky in Kiev. You definitely need to find the K1810VM86M version. It was a fork from Intel, capable of executing some of the 80286 instructions.
I can confirm that. I have visited the Kiev Kristall enterprise, where all this was happening, and spoke with a number of engineers from Kobylinsky's team and his wife Katya IIRC. The chip could not be made an exact copy of Intel's design because of the differences between the US and the USSR semiconductor fab technologies. Ukrainian engineers have been able to recover and reverse engineer _most_ of the chip logic by taking pictures of the layers, but not everything, so the missing parts had had to be designed from scratch.
So cool! The Soviets did produce some extremely high resolution lenses back in the 80's that were used for microchip design, like the ERA line, so wouldn't surprise me if they reverse engineered it 'from scratch'.
they reverse engineered it CPU in Kyiv on the "Kvazar" factory. why ussr don't make copy of i286 and i386 cpu ? bcz it is too complex and expensive to reproduce it for ussr factory , but cant revese as first.
It would be interesting to try out some overclocking and see if the limit is different. Because we are dealing with two chips from different foundries I'd expect some differences, maybe even in the electrical characteristics.
East german, bulgarian and russian institutes do chip copying layer by layer for ussr and warshavian block chip production. But also i know original chips, compatible by software but not direct “layout” copied. Interesting story. But main problem in USSR was not hardware, but software - low quality, small selection, approx 5 or more years behind unfortunately. Construction of USSR computers was also compromised becouse of difficult to obtain parts and rather rubbish production and design. But some of them was interesting, and even dont have analogs like bk0010 and 11 or UKNC (ms 511) they was very concurent to modern western computers. But only couple of them. Most lines was terrible 🤷♂️😎
@@amedvedev I think that the Electronika BK0010, part of a line of computers, were based on Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11. It is ironic because DEC really did have some superior technology, perhaps most notably in networking, but they made serious business blunders, and became bankrupt and shut down. It's too bad. As it was, DEC made some very unsuccessful desktops, because they didn't understand the market.
@HoboWild Looking of sheer quantity of original 8088 producers, i think obtaining drawings wasn't act of extremely hard espionage, especially knowing that 8088 was still relevant but anywhere near cutting age technology at 80's
@@amedvedev If i remember correctly, this technology of copying was also loved by mid-size taiwanese manufacturers at the time. Also, USSR industry managers had really strange obcession with similarly keep all standardized and to try to be as close to relevancy as possible. I really can't understand how that ES computers line could be rationally kept with this requiriments. And producing that many chips in small quantity of fabs (and undersupported ones) also doesn't make things lighter
@@yoppindia Pretty good, but I grade Russians not on how well they speak Russian, but on how well I can understand them. This prekrasnaya rossiyanka I could understand pretty well. The translation left out a lot, btw.
You both look like a lovely couple! It's hard to wrap my mind around the combination of English, German, and Russian that you both deal with. Great video, and involve her more :)
I said that because I reviewed the video and you indeed said "my lovely wife" I did not notice in the first place. My wife is 14 years younger too! ... greetings from Romania!
The Soviets reverse engineered the 8088, just like East Germans, Czechs and Hungarians did to the Z80 and 8080. And by today, those reverse engineered copies are real gems of chip collections.
@Paol Vrobel My guess is different. Each mentioned country had enough talented engineers to perform such a task, and each country had - at that time - manufacturing capacity to utilize the results of reverse engineering. However, if you have some documents or proofs that can prove your right, I am keen to know. :)
XT and AT incompatibilities are always interesting. Like, a model F keyboard uses the XT interface, not the AT interface (even though the connectors are the same).
yeah, I forgot to mention that in the video that a compatible keyboard is needed as well. Interesting is that I have a keyboard which works on all Pcs.
I’ve never heard of a keyboard that auto-detected. I used to have one with a switch in the bottom. Shame it’s long gone. But there are PC/XT as well as AT versions of the model F, with different layouts and they speak different protocols. Easy way to tell at a glance, the PC model has no lock lights.
@@AiOinc1 Very strange may be it is the later revision without detachable cable. Mine is this with detachable one and it works on XTs and ATs and modern PCs as well, it is my daily driver :) and it detects the system automaticly just plug it and power on the PC :)
Fantastic video! Was interesting that it performed identically, but I guess no surprise - if you want 100% compatibility, going for cycle exact timing is what you want, and it's then going to be 100% compatible and also give the exact same performance. If you start reducing the cycle count on certain instructions, compatibility goes down.
I'm from Lithuania and I distictly remember a professor in chip design class at uni reminiscing about how they would do analysis and direct copying of chips during the soviet times, that with all the other rumors out there suggest to me that these are indeed 1 to 1 exact clones.
My late grandfather told me stories about how him and his friends were tasked with studying and reverse engineering all kinds of chips and other electronics, so i figured the same. I think i even have a handful of these exact chips somewhere in his stuff.
Einfach ein ABSOLUT sympathischer Kanal über diese herrliche Technik unserer Kindheit/Jugend. :) Danke für all die tollen Videos, Einblicke, Vergleiche- und die Art, wie das alles präsentiert wird! Ich (40) bin auch gerade dabei, den Keller des Elternhauses umzukrempeln, um dort all die alten Schätze, die zum Glück überdauert haben, wieder flott zu machen. Ein Kanal wie dieser hier gibt einem das Gefühl, kein Einzeltäter zu sein- sondern einer von mittlerweile vielen Burschen/Mädels, welche sich in der beginnenden Midlife-Crisis damit beschäftigen. :D Mach weiter so! Meiner Ansicht nach einer der besten Kanäle zu diesem Thema- ganz klar! Viele Grüsse aus Bayern, Matthias ;)
Peteeeeer, you will build an empire with this channel. Loved the idea of the russian competitor displayed by the russian wife, and the game sound detail
Great video and excellent channel, I really like it. Seems we have many things in common since my wife is Russian too and I'm a retro collector as well 😉 I used some of the Soviet computers back in the USSR days, I guess I also need to make some video about this. Keep up the great job!
Spasibo, tovarisch! I own a newly made copy of the Soviet home-pc Poisk-2. It is powered by the Soviet clone of 8086 at 8 MHz and could hold up to 2 Mb of RAM. Then in 1991 it was a brilliant PC for home use, now it is good for running all xt's and many of the 286's games.
@@adamuk5037 I'm married and probably older than you. But your taunt is irrelevant. Treat women with respect for who they are, not like pretty objects for men to collect.
Very interesting, thanks for showing this crazy russin chip! It actually runs more games than I thought! Haha too bad the russin chip didn't run Tetris, that would be cool! Thanks for the video, interesting content as always!
Interesting, especial the out-takes You've got me somewhat interested in seeing if I can dig up some XT class IDE from my 'ancient junk' I knew there was some very early IDE incompatibilities, I didn't realise it was 8 vs 16 bit.
These clone CPUs and CPUs named Gauja and Riga were designed and made in Riga, obviously, the earlier models shown in this video were really close copies and I'd had to find one of the original engineers to tell you more about them, sadly that's a harder task than you might think as it's not a piece of public information about who worked on them here in Latvia.
Смотришь канал так уже месяцами и вдруг: "Чего чего? Куда я попал?" Ему идею подкинуть, чтобы жена для Русских делала перевод клипов. Ему бы зрителей подвалило. Он тут процессорами завлекает, а настоящее сокровище прячет. Нужно к процессу подключать, коли канал так здорово растет.
@@Ozfrank Мозг даже не может переключиться. Привычно, когда на Русском канале вдруг что-то иностранное звучит. А тут противоположное. Появляется вопрос о том, сколько еще Русских жен прячется за кадрами других каналов? Другой ретро канал "Retro Recipes" - тоже комманда мужа и жены из разных стран. Жена время от времени в кадре появляется. Надеюсь новый формат будет продолжаться. К нему вся Россия присоединится.
loved the video :) ... 2 things: You look a bit like Danzel (singer) and you and your wife made me feel as if I'm watching european version of Retro Recipes :D
@@CPUGalaxy This one dude on facebook was telling me how this russian CPU could run x86 style code in a parallel sort of way, but the memory speed and memory controller was basically trash comparatively. Coreteks also made a video, I cant recall which, where an A.I. basically rearranges the OS kernal in pretty much real time which allowed otherwise single thread apps to use more hardware threads without context switching nonsense. I mean the old stuff is cool, but some relics belong permanently in a museum rather than walking around serving us fresh orange juice with smiles on their face. We should be careful to preserve what really benefits future generations, and there is no more ethical way to do it, I think than CRISPR and the newly emerging branches from that tree. Hell, beam me up scotty. Ill gladly experiment with known mutations at known good junctions.
There's something oddly disconcerting seeing hardware that was the bleeding edge of technical progress when I was a child now being relics in rare CPU collections.
they are not that rare, there were literally millions of those CPUs manufactures for over 15 years used many different applications. The reason they are harder to find today is most have been recycled but there are still plenty out there if you know where to look. Also the patent on those older CPUs are long past and are very easy to manufacture today due to the simplistic process used to create them compared to modern CPUs.
That IDE sound. I believe I had an HDD of that caliper into the early 2k's. So nostalgic to hear the windings and see the old flat grey cables. Reminds me of a modern day pi board with their 40 pin header.
How she introduces the Soviet CPU in Russian is priceless :D The chip is beautiful too (and it's not alone). As for the results: I'm not too surprised that it's a 1:1 clone though it was really interesting and somewhat exciting too as I wasn't particularly sure that this is the case. Thumbs up for everything.
For info: these old hard drives should be parked before power off with some utility as HDPARK. These drives hasn't parking feature built-in and spindle may be locked by head landed on outer region (where root directory is located in FAT filesystems).
Very interesting, never saw that chip before. Cool! :) If possible, I'd love to see and hear more of the eastern clones, it's a fascinating topic I know almost nothing about. Nice to meet your wife as well! I'd welcome her back any time. :)
So pretty much an exact clone, but white ceramic packages are always nice. I'd be curious to know if it worked in a 5150 with something like 8088 MPH or one of the other IBM PC demos that relies on 'real' Intel 8088s and IBM CGAs (i.e. does it clone all of the corner cases and potentially undefined behavior too?)
I know that Tesla in Czechoslovakia has reverse engineered the 8080. Their engineer, Mr. Černoch, was able to recreate the CPU from pictures of the die. The end result was the Tesla MHB8080A in a plastic DIP package and MHB8080AC in a ceramic DIP package. Tesla also made the MHB8088, used in the SMEP PP-06 computer, which was XT compatible. I don't know for sure if it was reverse engineered again by Mr. Černoch or not. Since even the humble Z80 was on the COCOM list (at least AFAIK), this was the only way to keep up with the west behind the iron curtain.
Lovely couple, lovely review. :-) I used to own a clone XT with a Hitachi 20MB hard disk (a very well-made and reliable one). A game I liked on that machine were the ones you mentioned,: Monkey Island, Leisure Suit Larry, LOOM, etc (mostly played on an AT at work). One early game I had on the XT was this monochrome game concerning navigating medieval junks or ships in some sort of naval game. Can't recall the name of the game tho. Thanks again for this review. And yes, the white ceramic and gold pins win. :-)
Any differences in execution cycle timings is probably hidden by the limiting RAM speed. It can't execute instructions any faster than it can fetch them through that 8-bit bus. Common logical instructions probably have the same general cycle count because of the general architecture, even if it's different in detail. You need to perform specific benchmarks on "hard" or complex instructions; e.g. MUL and DIV which are microcoded.
I did have most of these benchmarking programs, and it's great to see some of them in German. I'd never heard of the 8088sky, and thank you to Mrs CPU Galaxy for the introduction in Russian! Hopefully, Bald and Bankrupt hasn't heard of the K1810VM88 either.
The fact that the Soviet clone performed exactly like the original makes me think it was obtained via espionage and not independently designed/reverse engineered.
As Lassi said, I think these were cloned "simply" by x-raying legally obtained examples. The lithography was around 1,000x larger and the transistor count was literally 1,000,000 times smaller than that of a modern, higher end desktop CPU.
@@ocudagledam I posted this elsewhere: I think some of the Soviet microprocessors were copies and some were independent developments. The Soviet 580, a compatible cpu with the Intel 8080, was used in many Soviet computers and does not have an identical die layout as the 8080. On the other hand, the Soviet 1858, compatible with the Zilog Z80, has a die layout identical to the Z80, and was probably made directly by buying or stealing original semiconductor fabrication masks. The 1801 was a completely Soviet native design that happened to implement the PDP-11 instruction set. I don't know about the Soviet 1810/Intel 8088. I would like to see a comparison between an LSI-11 (PDP-11 reduced to one or two chips) and the Soviet 1801. Though, I don't think the LSI-11 and the 1801 are pin compatible. Perhaps a 580/8080 would be a better matchup.
Clock cycles for each instruction was public knowledge, and there was no cache or superscalar or prediction of any sort. Anyone making a "clone" would have exactly the same performance even if it's done by some college freshman (yes, I did make a CPU with few instructions exactly like 8088 when I was in school)
You are wrong. I can hardly imagine infiltration in relatively small Intel back than. It’s very well known technic, widely used by many western companies as well - they simply cut silicon layer by layer and make a photo of each layer. Simple. I only wonder why this took long four years to? They probably had too many tea breaks in their “research” institutes
Oh, btw, my money would be on the russian chip being an exact clone of the intel. Probably etched the top off one and reverse engineered it. A feat in it's own right I will add
I haven't watched the whole video yet, but there's a great story how DEC engineers engraved on one of their chips, the Russian words in Cyrillic: "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best" (I'm not sure how they transliterated VAX) I've actually heard a Russian brag about how exactly this was copied with the rest of the chip, which, as you mentioned, is a feat in its own right.
Very interesting video. I didn't expect the Soviet chip to perform exactly the same. It's an exact copy, I guess the Soviet engineers weren't afraid of Intel sueing them because it never meant to get outside the Iron Courtain. By the way, thanks for introducing your lovely wife to us.
Your wife seems delightful. I am glad she was a part of this. As a kid growing up in the US I recall seeing a news program about how the soviets were “copying” American ICs. The producers of the program produced a sting operation be having a custom IC produced with embedded watermarks in the metal patterns. They then proceeded to de-cap the Soviet clone and revealed the same watermarks. I know this was during the Cold War and all of the nationalism that went along with this. So don’t think however that this was faked. It is conceivable however if they blindly copied an IC that a hidden watermark would also be copied. So maybe at the transistor level these two IC may be identical.
Very nice collection of 8088 sir, I've never seen the AMD 8088, it's fantastic to see the logo on this historic chip. It powered the PC of my childhood, the Tandy 1000SX.
Your wife is lovely, there's nothing like a physically attractive smart woman! Love your channel bud, I'm super interested in these old chips. Very cool.
Вы двое - чертовски милая парочка! Be good and kind to each other always. :) Another very fast XT board you may find interesting is the NuXT from Monotech. It is interesting because it's highly intergrated, has AT IDE on it, FDD and optional SVGA. Most interesting part though is the SDRAM though. No RAS/CAS refresh needed to be cotnrolled by the CPU so the processor can run faster. If your benchmarks are limited by slow memory speed (I noticed your DRAM was @80ns refresh ..so probably slower effective access time whilst typical XT is 120-350ns), you may find this interesting. Best wishes to you both!
I've seen a debate about it now. One guy claims he has a prototype but he states it might be a soviet chip inside and there were also fakes on ebay. Only CPU that was definitely produced was MHB8080A...
I was not expecting this. If this was even partially reverse-engineered for pin & instruction compatibility (similar to what Compaq did for their clones of the IBM BIOS) then there would be some deviation, at least 1%: There is more than one way to solve the specific problems like logic and arithmetic circuits, and even using different manufacturing processes would show up the tiniest bit. This looks like they scraped off the lid, looked at every transistor with a microscope and built exact copies. Excellent video, great to see this old tech working so smoothly (big nostalgia points for me), and the presentation from your lady added a lovely little flair of authenticity given the content :)
Thing is, the CPUs of these days had simple enough specifications that there wasn't room for deviation. You had lists of each OP code, and how many clock cycles they took, and no room on the chip for "hidden" things like caches with undocumentated behaviors. In other words, in those days, the specifications in the manual were tight enough to predict, clock for clock, the performance of a given piece of code. So how do we tell how similar the silicon is beneath the lid, when from the outside it's doing exactly the same thing? Well, assuming that we don't want to destroy the chip by physically taking it apart, and assuming we don't have a decent oscilloscope handy, this is actually a bit tricky. An obvious thing would be to increase the clock speed, and check whether both systems start becoming unstable at the same speeds. If they have significant differences there, it's suggestive that they are actually different inside, although we have to remember that there will still be varience from chip to chip even for identical chips just due to manufacturing irregularity. However, if they do perform the same, we still don't know the answer for sure, since in this case it could be some other part of the system, such as the RAM, that can't handle the clock speed before either CPU hits its limits.
Actually, just checking FMAX wouldn't be good enough to determine whether the chips were clones. Since even if they copied it transistor for transistor, if they weren't using exactly the same fabrication process, you'd see differences in transistor performance. Short of delidding, I think you would have to carefully analyze things with an oscilloscope. By paying close attention to the timings, you can prise out hints about internal layout, where even if things are moved around a bit on the chip die, some signal paths will become relatively longer or shorter (and thus slower or faster).
I absolutely loved this video! I was actually hoping for some differences a-la V20 but I guess just a clone. Super neat!
Without any further ado, Adrian is here, too! And it amazes me every time 😋.
@@BreakingBrick Look at that!
@@OzRetrocomp Oooh, there's Rammy, look how happy he is!
Dang speaking of cloning.
Makes sense as there is no pipelining in this era of computing, and each instruction probably took the same number of clock cycles.
This microprocessor is the result of reverse engineering of the Intel 8088. It was created by the team of Alfred Vitoldovich Kobylinsky in Kiev. You definitely need to find the K1810VM86M version. It was a fork from Intel, capable of executing some of the 80286 instructions.
I can confirm that. I have visited the Kiev Kristall enterprise, where all this was happening, and spoke with a number of engineers from Kobylinsky's team and his wife Katya IIRC. The chip could not be made an exact copy of Intel's design because of the differences between the US and the USSR semiconductor fab technologies. Ukrainian engineers have been able to recover and reverse engineer _most_ of the chip logic by taking pictures of the layers, but not everything, so the missing parts had had to be designed from scratch.
ig kgb stole it, idk ???
I never seen in my life young women tallking about old technology so fluently, more videos with this lady please !
Best video I've seen today
Cause she is soviet equivalent of Kara from the game : Detroid become human
Simp
@@megapro1725 I lol'd
You might rather see young women talking about her old boyfriends instead.
So cool! The Soviets did produce some extremely high resolution lenses back in the 80's that were used for microchip design, like the ERA line, so wouldn't surprise me if they reverse engineered it 'from scratch'.
they reverse engineered it CPU in Kyiv on the "Kvazar" factory.
why ussr don't make copy of i286 and i386 cpu ? bcz it is too complex and expensive to reproduce it for ussr factory , but cant revese as first.
@@EKrava There was Soviet and East Germany 286 clone. But it wasn’t in mass production. And 386, it is late 80s, Soviet Union was dying at that time.
@@user-oj4gm3si5q nice joke.
It's 8088 Intel copy,
Soviet Union died in 1991
@@EKrava dying ≠ died
@@user-oj4gm3si5qcan you show us this soviet 286?
It’s nice to see a couple like you sharing this passion for hardware.
It would be interesting to try out some overclocking and see if the limit is different. Because we are dealing with two chips from different foundries I'd expect some differences, maybe even in the electrical characteristics.
То чувство, когда говорят на русском на зарубежном канале. Эх 😆
то чувство, когда запарили писать под каждым видео "то чувство" = деградация
Лично меня забавляет, что я английскую речь понимаю, а они мою - нет. Такое странное...преимущество.
@@xmax2011 Как минимум, у казахов преимущество над тобой. XD
@@Make_it_easy001 Ладно бы казахи! Так ещё вся татарская родня жены!
То чувство, когда "то чувство" употребляют неправильно.
I've heard stories of East-German engineers with microscopes, tracing tools and a LOT of patience.
East german, bulgarian and russian institutes do chip copying layer by layer for ussr and warshavian block chip production. But also i know original chips, compatible by software but not direct “layout” copied. Interesting story. But main problem in USSR was not hardware, but software - low quality, small selection, approx 5 or more years behind unfortunately. Construction of USSR computers was also compromised becouse of difficult to obtain parts and rather rubbish production and design. But some of them was interesting, and even dont have analogs like bk0010 and 11 or UKNC (ms 511) they was very concurent to modern western computers. But only couple of them. Most lines was terrible 🤷♂️😎
@HoboWild That's also my suspicion.
@@amedvedev I think that the Electronika BK0010, part of a line of computers, were based on Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11. It is ironic because DEC really did have some superior technology, perhaps most notably in networking, but they made serious business blunders, and became bankrupt and shut down. It's too bad. As it was, DEC made some very unsuccessful desktops, because they didn't understand the market.
@HoboWild Looking of sheer quantity of original 8088 producers, i think obtaining drawings wasn't act of extremely hard espionage, especially knowing that 8088 was still relevant but anywhere near cutting age technology at 80's
@@amedvedev If i remember correctly, this technology of copying was also loved by mid-size taiwanese manufacturers at the time. Also, USSR industry managers had really strange obcession with similarly keep all standardized and to try to be as close to relevancy as possible. I really can't understand how that ES computers line could be rationally kept with this requiriments. And producing that many chips in small quantity of fabs (and undersupported ones) also doesn't make things lighter
Oh, Mrs. CPU Galaxy, nice to meet you :)
Это... было неожиданно услышать русскую речь на этом канале.
Офигенно!
That was unexpected to hear russian speech on this channel!
Great!
Seeing Norton SI and CheckIT again for the first time after >30 years: priceless!!
Another great video, your really pushing them out at the moment. The bloopers at the end were brilliant too 🤣
I agree the bloopers were fun
That hard disk sound spinning up.. I heard it, and it was so familiar, gave me shivers and instant flashback to the 80's.
тот редкий случай когда смотрю и слушаю канал не отматывая назад что бы вникнуть в сказанное.
Почти что жиза(*-*)
How was her russian?
@@yoppindia It was flawless. Coming from another CPU collector with a Russian wife. And I'm dead serious.
@@yoppindia ideally, her Russian language is no different from what I hear every day.
@@yoppindia Pretty good, but I grade Russians not on how well they speak Russian, but on how well I can understand them. This prekrasnaya rossiyanka I could understand pretty well. The translation left out a lot, btw.
You both look like a lovely couple! It's hard to wrap my mind around the combination of English, German, and Russian that you both deal with. Great video, and involve her more :)
Thank you. :). But Alisa speaks fluently German as well. 😉
@@CPUGalaxy Gosh! I thaught she's your daughter...
I said that because I reviewed the video and you indeed said "my lovely wife" I did not notice in the first place. My wife is 14 years younger too! ... greetings from Romania!
The Soviets reverse engineered the 8088, just like East Germans, Czechs and Hungarians did to the Z80 and 8080. And by today, those reverse engineered copies are real gems of chip collections.
Poland too.
They new that Western people would make mistakes, so they decided to correct them. As usual...
they just xrayed them
@Paol Vrobel My guess is different. Each mentioned country had enough talented engineers to perform such a task, and each country had - at that time - manufacturing capacity to utilize the results of reverse engineering. However, if you have some documents or proofs that can prove your right, I am keen to know. :)
@Paol Vrobel Aaaaahhhh...is this a document or proof? :)
XT and AT incompatibilities are always interesting. Like, a model F keyboard uses the XT interface, not the AT interface (even though the connectors are the same).
yeah, I forgot to mention that in the video that a compatible keyboard is needed as well. Interesting is that I have a keyboard which works on all Pcs.
@@CPUGalaxy model M works on bouth automaticly :)
@@intel386DX Ah, unfortunately I've never been able to get my Model M to work on my XT clone.
I’ve never heard of a keyboard that auto-detected. I used to have one with a switch in the bottom. Shame it’s long gone. But there are PC/XT as well as AT versions of the model F, with different layouts and they speak different protocols. Easy way to tell at a glance, the PC model has no lock lights.
@@AiOinc1 Very strange may be it is the later revision without detachable cable. Mine is this with detachable one and it works on XTs and ATs and modern PCs as well, it is my daily driver :) and it detects the system automaticly just plug it and power on the PC :)
Fantastic video! Was interesting that it performed identically, but I guess no surprise - if you want 100% compatibility, going for cycle exact timing is what you want, and it's then going to be 100% compatible and also give the exact same performance. If you start reducing the cycle count on certain instructions, compatibility goes down.
Алиса либо забыла великий могучий, либо хорошо его знает.
Когда ты с рождения живёшь в стране, где говорят на другом языке, говорить по-русски like a native speaker это уже непросто.
Dude your wife is a total 10. Congrats. Gorgeous and smart, you win in life.
I'm from Lithuania and I distictly remember a professor in chip design class at uni reminiscing about how they would do analysis and direct copying of chips during the soviet times, that with all the other rumors out there suggest to me that these are indeed 1 to 1 exact clones.
My late grandfather told me stories about how him and his friends were tasked with studying and reverse engineering all kinds of chips and other electronics, so i figured the same. I think i even have a handful of these exact chips somewhere in his stuff.
Good old 80's times when I used to assembly and disassembly such beauties with my eyes shut. Thanks for bringing back good memories!
Einfach ein ABSOLUT sympathischer Kanal über diese herrliche Technik unserer Kindheit/Jugend. :)
Danke für all die tollen Videos, Einblicke, Vergleiche- und die Art, wie das alles präsentiert wird!
Ich (40) bin auch gerade dabei, den Keller des Elternhauses umzukrempeln, um dort all die alten Schätze, die zum Glück überdauert haben, wieder flott zu machen. Ein Kanal wie dieser hier gibt einem das Gefühl, kein Einzeltäter zu sein- sondern einer von mittlerweile vielen Burschen/Mädels, welche sich in der beginnenden Midlife-Crisis damit beschäftigen. :D
Mach weiter so! Meiner Ansicht nach einer der besten Kanäle zu diesem Thema- ganz klar!
Viele Grüsse aus Bayern,
Matthias ;)
Thank you! ☺️
Peteeeeer, you will build an empire with this channel. Loved the idea of the russian competitor displayed by the russian wife, and the game sound detail
Thank you Fabio! ☺️
Great video and excellent channel, I really like it. Seems we have many things in common since my wife is Russian too and I'm a retro collector as well 😉
I used some of the Soviet computers back in the USSR days, I guess I also need to make some video about this.
Keep up the great job!
Spasibo, tovarisch! I own a newly made copy of the Soviet home-pc Poisk-2. It is powered by the Soviet clone of 8086 at 8 MHz and could hold up to 2 Mb of RAM. Then in 1991 it was a brilliant PC for home use, now it is good for running all xt's and many of the 286's games.
love outtakes at the end. great video, like always!
aw shes so pretty... you guys make a great couple. She might be even more beautiful than your CPU collection.
😄 Good point mate
huba huba... who says nerds don't get the girl?
Just gonna call out the misogyny of treating a woman who is a competent engineer as if she's just her husband's prize.
@@BlueBenGo grow up and get a girlfriend. Perhaps then you will understand.
@@adamuk5037 I'm married and probably older than you. But your taunt is irrelevant. Treat women with respect for who they are, not like pretty objects for men to collect.
This is great, I was really expecting more of a difference. Love the white ceramic chips, reminds me of the early 4004s
Can't believe I've only just discovered your channel, brilliant stuff and what a collection.🙂
Your Wife is Absolutely wonderful at explaining Technology in such a wonderful and soothing way.
"Наш советский сою.." - sorry, I couldn't resist sending you to Red Alert)) Thank you for the video)
над Землёй везде будут петь: "столица, водка, советский медведь!"
;D
Interesting chip! And more importantly, a lovely cameo from Mrs. CPU Galaxy! Hopefully you have more Russian chips in the future for her to present!
Elbrus, eh!
That motherboard in the background is one of the cleanest-looking motherboards I've ever seen. The layout looks so clean and organized.
You guys are awesome, take good care of your wife :)
And please do more soviet era computing things!
You lucky guy ..she's definitely a keeper )). Great video. Spasibo comrade
Very interesting, thanks for showing this crazy russin chip! It actually runs more games than I thought! Haha too bad the russin chip didn't run Tetris, that would be cool! Thanks for the video, interesting content as always!
What a lovely person Alisa. Congrats to both of you
Very interesting to see a soviet chip reviewed. Great video as usual Peter and Alisa!
Your wife is the most valuable treasure in your collection :)
I love your collections, Never seen an XT with so much integration before
Привет из России)давно смотрю канал,приятно удивлён)Алиса появляйся на канале ещё!
Interesting, especial the out-takes
You've got me somewhat interested in seeing if I can dig up some XT class IDE from my 'ancient junk'
I knew there was some very early IDE incompatibilities, I didn't realise it was 8 vs 16 bit.
That Phillips mainboard says "Made in Canada" .... definitely very unique. Great video and loved that you included the outtakes at the end.
hey, I'm Russian subscriber, just passing by...
That's a weird way of saying "hi, I'm a spy"
@@bevis71 are u KGB?
посмотрев на жену сразу понял что наша
@@valdisblack1541 о! Привет, спонсор комментариев для Изи. Я тебя узнал
@@ranid0072 меня раскрыли...
These clone CPUs and CPUs named Gauja and Riga were designed and made in Riga, obviously, the earlier models shown in this video were really close copies and I'd had to find one of the original engineers to tell you more about them, sadly that's a harder task than you might think as it's not a piece of public information about who worked on them here in Latvia.
damn. did not expect that they were made in my homeland. at the time there was a lot of electronics produced here, but cpus?
@@f0gpie yeah, well most of high tech at the time was made in baltics, a lot of it under VEF
Очень неожиданно! Приятно услышать русскую речь! Очень красивая и симпатичная жена-инженер! Желаю процветания и развития каналу!
Смотришь канал так уже месяцами и вдруг: "Чего чего? Куда я попал?" Ему идею подкинуть, чтобы жена для Русских делала перевод клипов. Ему бы зрителей подвалило. Он тут процессорами завлекает, а настоящее сокровище прячет. Нужно к процессу подключать, коли канал так здорово растет.
Прям офигел когда услышал)
@@Ozfrank Мозг даже не может переключиться. Привычно, когда на Русском канале вдруг что-то иностранное звучит. А тут противоположное. Появляется вопрос о том, сколько еще Русских жен прячется за кадрами других каналов? Другой ретро канал "Retro Recipes" - тоже комманда мужа и жены из разных стран. Жена время от времени в кадре появляется. Надеюсь новый формат будет продолжаться. К нему вся Россия присоединится.
@@enilenis время от времени - это у 8-bit guy :) Семейство фрактиков вообще канал втроем ведет:)
@@enilenis Это верно! Канал бы процветал еще быстрее с ее помощи. Так и делает Retro Recipes (они еще собаку туда же притянули, все вперёд!)...
This is the first time I've seen you and that's not what I expected at all. I'm not really sure what I was expecting to be fair.
Bald white dude with a white stubbly beard.
Me too. He looks pretty cool, in my opinion.
@@Voidsworn Peter has so much style, he should be in an 80s collection himself. ;-)
loved the video :) ... 2 things: You look a bit like Danzel (singer) and you and your wife made me feel as if I'm watching european version of Retro Recipes :D
haha. thats funny. Coz my wife asked what she should wear for the video and I checked with her Retro Recipies 😂😂. Thanks for the positive feedback.
@@CPUGalaxy haha, well, good job then :D it really reminded me of retro recipes. :)
I love the chemistry between you. You are a great couple.
Coupled like an 8088 and 8087 ;)
😅👍🏻
So one of you is better at floating point maths?
yes. of course my wife. 😉.
@@CPUGalaxy
This one dude on facebook was telling me how this russian CPU could run x86 style code in a parallel sort of way, but the memory speed and memory controller was basically trash comparatively. Coreteks also made a video, I cant recall which, where an A.I. basically rearranges the OS kernal in pretty much real time which allowed otherwise single thread apps to use more hardware threads without context switching nonsense.
I mean the old stuff is cool, but some relics belong permanently in a museum rather than walking around serving us fresh orange juice with smiles on their face. We should be careful to preserve what really benefits future generations, and there is no more ethical way to do it, I think than CRISPR and the newly emerging branches from that tree.
Hell, beam me up scotty. Ill gladly experiment with known mutations at known good junctions.
You don't need to hunt for any more treasures. You already have the biggest one. 💎
There's something oddly disconcerting seeing hardware that was the bleeding edge of technical progress when I was a child now being relics in rare CPU collections.
Same here 🤣
they are not that rare, there were literally millions of those CPUs manufactures for over 15 years used many different applications. The reason they are harder to find today is most have been recycled but there are still plenty out there if you know where to look. Also the patent on those older CPUs are long past and are very easy to manufacture today due to the simplistic process used to create them compared to modern CPUs.
@@aegisofhonor I''m not referring to this specific CPU, I'm referring to his entire channel in a general sense.
@@aegisofhonor I think my toaster uses one to count down thirty seconds after I hit the lever. Uses all 640k.
A true Russian classic! An absolute gem. Unbelievable quality, and performance. They don't make wives like that anymore!
Well known quality from a country which does not exist anymore? Hell yeah
@@lksr.6938 about the quality... it's fake too. I've seen this "quality" and talked to engineers from USSR era. No, I prefer Intel originals)
@@valdisblack1541 moreover, there is nothing russian in ussr engineering!))
@@lksr.6938 верно
That IDE sound. I believe I had an HDD of that caliper into the early 2k's. So nostalgic to hear the windings and see the old flat grey cables. Reminds me of a modern day pi board with their 40 pin header.
Great video as always! Sovjetsky technologisky from the 80's is winning the beauty constest. Great takeouts at the end!
Nice to see you and your misses. Please thank her for taking part :)
How she introduces the Soviet CPU in Russian is priceless :D
The chip is beautiful too (and it's not alone).
As for the results: I'm not too surprised that it's a 1:1 clone though it was really interesting and somewhat exciting too as I wasn't particularly sure that this is the case.
Thumbs up for everything.
For info: these old hard drives should be parked before power off with some utility as HDPARK. These drives hasn't parking feature built-in and spindle may be locked by head landed on outer region (where root directory is located in FAT filesystems).
Wow, they are evenly matched - I honestly didn't expect that one honestly.
Honestly?
True. Also the chips were quite similar.
Very interesting, never saw that chip before. Cool! :)
If possible, I'd love to see and hear more of the eastern clones, it's a fascinating topic I know almost nothing about.
Nice to meet your wife as well! I'd welcome her back any time. :)
Love the channel, greetings from Belgium
Thank you! Greetings back from Austria 🇦🇹
You keep delivering on the content. It is amazing the old hardware that you obtain and show off here.
So pretty much an exact clone, but white ceramic packages are always nice. I'd be curious to know if it worked in a 5150 with something like 8088 MPH or one of the other IBM PC demos that relies on 'real' Intel 8088s and IBM CGAs (i.e. does it clone all of the corner cases and potentially undefined behavior too?)
Great video. Beautiful CPU and your wife is very beautiful as well. Thanks for sharing.
You and your wife look very happy which is nice to see. Does she happen to have any sisters living in Canada.
This is just brilliant. I love the idea of seeing if intel old chips stack up against others of the era from other countries.
Another brilliant video. Really nicely done! Your co host is superb, please invite her back again!
Thanks for your feedback! Okay, she will appear for sure again on my channel. ☺️
Super cool to see such a cute couple presenting! Thanks for the video!
Вау, не ожидал услышать русскую речь. Спасибо)
Wow, that is the most advanced XT mobo i've ever seen! Greetings to your wife, she is very cool! :D
Love the bloopers at the end! Keep going!!!!!!
I was very surprised, somebody still have that vintage devices. I had something similar about 30 years ago. Thanks for your video.
She looks breathtaking, and an engineer, also? You are incredibly lucky! She reminds me of my lovely wife. ❤️
I know that Tesla in Czechoslovakia has reverse engineered the 8080. Their engineer, Mr. Černoch, was able to recreate the CPU from pictures of the die. The end result was the Tesla MHB8080A in a plastic DIP package and MHB8080AC in a ceramic DIP package. Tesla also made the MHB8088, used in the SMEP PP-06 computer, which was XT compatible. I don't know for sure if it was reverse engineered again by Mr. Černoch or not. Since even the humble Z80 was on the COCOM list (at least AFAIK), this was the only way to keep up with the west behind the iron curtain.
Your marriage is saved! 😄 Very interesting test. Obviously the Soviet chip manufacturers did a good job of reverse engineering 😊👍
Lovely couple, lovely review. :-)
I used to own a clone XT with a Hitachi 20MB hard disk (a very well-made and reliable one). A game I liked on that machine were the ones you mentioned,: Monkey Island, Leisure Suit Larry, LOOM, etc (mostly played on an AT at work). One early game I had on the XT was this monochrome game concerning navigating medieval junks or ships in some sort of naval game. Can't recall the name of the game tho. Thanks again for this review. And yes, the white ceramic and gold pins win. :-)
Any differences in execution cycle timings is probably hidden by the limiting RAM speed. It can't execute instructions any faster than it can fetch them through that 8-bit bus.
Common logical instructions probably have the same general cycle count because of the general architecture, even if it's different in detail. You need to perform specific benchmarks on "hard" or complex instructions; e.g. MUL and DIV which are microcoded.
I did have most of these benchmarking programs, and it's great to see some of them in German.
I'd never heard of the 8088sky, and thank you to Mrs CPU Galaxy for the introduction in Russian! Hopefully, Bald and Bankrupt hasn't heard of the K1810VM88 either.
I was surprised that they performed evenly, I was actually sure that the Soviet clone is slightly faster.
This I was expecting as well.
@@CPUGalaxy They both have the same clock speed
Love this video! Nice work. I was expecting at least some differences. I think it's a soviet clone from the 8088
The fact that the Soviet clone performed exactly like the original makes me think it was obtained via espionage and not independently designed/reverse engineered.
initial models were obtained via espionage, later models such as Riga and Gauja were independently made
As Lassi said, I think these were cloned "simply" by x-raying legally obtained examples. The lithography was around 1,000x larger and the transistor count was literally 1,000,000 times smaller than that of a modern, higher end desktop CPU.
@@ocudagledam
I posted this elsewhere: I think some of the Soviet microprocessors were copies and some were independent developments. The Soviet 580, a compatible cpu with the Intel 8080, was used in many Soviet computers and does not have an identical die layout as the 8080. On the other hand, the Soviet 1858, compatible with the Zilog Z80, has a die layout identical to the Z80, and was probably made directly by buying or stealing original semiconductor fabrication masks. The 1801 was a completely Soviet native design that happened to implement the PDP-11 instruction set. I don't know about the Soviet 1810/Intel 8088. I would like to see a comparison between an LSI-11 (PDP-11 reduced to one or two chips) and the Soviet 1801. Though, I don't think the LSI-11 and the 1801 are pin compatible. Perhaps a 580/8080 would be a better matchup.
Clock cycles for each instruction was public knowledge, and there was no cache or superscalar or prediction of any sort. Anyone making a "clone" would have exactly the same performance even if it's done by some college freshman (yes, I did make a CPU with few instructions exactly like 8088 when I was in school)
You are wrong. I can hardly imagine infiltration in relatively small Intel back than.
It’s very well known technic, widely used by many western companies as well - they simply cut silicon layer by layer and make a photo of each layer. Simple.
I only wonder why this took long four years to? They probably had too many tea breaks in their “research” institutes
You and your wife are the best thing ever to happen to TH-cam tech videos. This is great! :)
Thank you! ☺️
Отличный пример, каким должен быть youtube!
I find Soviet clones of western technology fascinating, thanks for sharing!
Oh, btw, my money would be on the russian chip being an exact clone of the intel. Probably etched the top off one and reverse engineered it. A feat in it's own right I will add
I haven't watched the whole video yet, but there's a great story how DEC engineers engraved on one of their chips, the Russian words in Cyrillic: "VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best" (I'm not sure how they transliterated VAX) I've actually heard a Russian brag about how exactly this was copied with the rest of the chip, which, as you mentioned, is a feat in its own right.
Glad I found your channel guys!
Privet! Russian bear has won, I love it!
Very interesting video. I didn't expect the Soviet chip to perform exactly the same. It's an exact copy, I guess the Soviet engineers weren't afraid of Intel sueing them because it never meant to get outside the Iron Courtain. By the way, thanks for introducing your lovely wife to us.
Your wife is so beautiful 👌🏼
Your wife seems delightful. I am glad she was a part of this.
As a kid growing up in the US I recall seeing a news program about how the soviets were “copying” American ICs. The producers of the program produced a sting operation be having a custom IC produced with embedded watermarks in the metal patterns. They then proceeded to de-cap the Soviet clone and revealed the same watermarks. I know this was during the Cold War and all of the nationalism that went along with this. So don’t think however that this was faked. It is conceivable however if they blindly copied an IC that a hidden watermark would also be copied.
So maybe at the transistor level these two IC may be identical.
You and your wife look like a very lovely couple! :-)
Very nice collection of 8088 sir, I've never seen the AMD 8088, it's fantastic to see the logo on this historic chip. It powered the PC of my childhood, the Tandy 1000SX.
Your wife is lovely, there's nothing like a physically attractive smart woman! Love your channel bud, I'm super interested in these old chips. Very cool.
Вы двое - чертовски милая парочка! Be good and kind to each other always. :) Another very fast XT board you may find interesting is the NuXT from Monotech. It is interesting because it's highly intergrated, has AT IDE on it, FDD and optional SVGA. Most interesting part though is the SDRAM though. No RAS/CAS refresh needed to be cotnrolled by the CPU so the processor can run faster. If your benchmarks are limited by slow memory speed (I noticed your DRAM was @80ns refresh ..so probably slower effective access time whilst typical XT is 120-350ns), you may find this interesting. Best wishes to you both!
What a beautiful girl!
Видео понравилось! Вспомнил первый курс в институте. Лайк.
It will be interesting to see Czechoslovak Tesla too.
Czehoslovakia have 8088 clone too?!
I've seen a debate about it now. One guy claims he has a prototype but he states it might be a soviet chip inside and there were also fakes on ebay. Only CPU that was definitely produced was MHB8080A...
I was not expecting this. If this was even partially reverse-engineered for pin & instruction compatibility (similar to what Compaq did for their clones of the IBM BIOS) then there would be some deviation, at least 1%: There is more than one way to solve the specific problems like logic and arithmetic circuits, and even using different manufacturing processes would show up the tiniest bit. This looks like they scraped off the lid, looked at every transistor with a microscope and built exact copies.
Excellent video, great to see this old tech working so smoothly (big nostalgia points for me), and the presentation from your lady added a lovely little flair of authenticity given the content :)
Thing is, the CPUs of these days had simple enough specifications that there wasn't room for deviation. You had lists of each OP code, and how many clock cycles they took, and no room on the chip for "hidden" things like caches with undocumentated behaviors. In other words, in those days, the specifications in the manual were tight enough to predict, clock for clock, the performance of a given piece of code.
So how do we tell how similar the silicon is beneath the lid, when from the outside it's doing exactly the same thing? Well, assuming that we don't want to destroy the chip by physically taking it apart, and assuming we don't have a decent oscilloscope handy, this is actually a bit tricky. An obvious thing would be to increase the clock speed, and check whether both systems start becoming unstable at the same speeds. If they have significant differences there, it's suggestive that they are actually different inside, although we have to remember that there will still be varience from chip to chip even for identical chips just due to manufacturing irregularity. However, if they do perform the same, we still don't know the answer for sure, since in this case it could be some other part of the system, such as the RAM, that can't handle the clock speed before either CPU hits its limits.
Actually, just checking FMAX wouldn't be good enough to determine whether the chips were clones. Since even if they copied it transistor for transistor, if they weren't using exactly the same fabrication process, you'd see differences in transistor performance.
Short of delidding, I think you would have to carefully analyze things with an oscilloscope. By paying close attention to the timings, you can prise out hints about internal layout, where even if things are moved around a bit on the chip die, some signal paths will become relatively longer or shorter (and thus slower or faster).
Советский был не разработан а скопирован, слизан. Как и все остальное в советах.
Your wife is adorable. And that ceramic package with gold plated pins... priceless...