Way back in 2002 I was a MP in a Reserve GSU mobilized to our active duty component. We had fully integrated with them and eventually over half of our SRT was made up of Reservists. At that point we had zero rifles at all, just our M9’s and Winchester 1300 shotguns. Mine had been modified long before me with one of those top folding stocks. Eventually we begged and borrowed 5 M4’s from the local CID, alongside our 3 M24’s that made up our entire armory. M9’s with LaserMax internal laser sights was the coolest gear we had. We had to beg for smoke grenades and even access to up armored vehicles in case we needed them.
As is usually the case, having to stop the video because of a time constraints and making a comment prior to completion bites me in the butt. Tim Kennedy has talked at length about him being either in the stack or watching the breach as an observer when that 870 discharges into the thigh of the guy in the course. As to the powdered substance in the breaching shells, I’m pretty sure that they use magnesium and some use tungsten. Though I’d imagine graphite would do a better job of reducing potential harm to nearby hostages during a breach. Early on as an MP we rarely ever had actual breaching shells and had to rely upon Winchester-Olin green hull 00 buck. The standard training was 2 shots for the door knob/bolt, and if you had to breach the hinges then each hinge got 3. Not sure why y’all were getting commercial shiny hull/brass loads. Even in ‘02 we had the contract green hull/lacquered brass loads. Even prior to my enlistment in 2000 I had seen contract overrun loads sold at Walmart. I suspect it’s because as MP’s we already had the distribution system in place. I would prefer to see the use of Remington 8 pellets flight control as opposed to the Winchester/Olin 9 pellet. It tends to group better and have less deformation allowing better terminal performance as well.
"Best damn gun-related channel" how ? how did you measured that? not saying the contrary,but genuinely interested in how did you scaled that classification? (other than your personal opinion)
Carried the 590 in the Army and as a Police Officer. I learned long ago to change the mag spring to a Wolf +power spring. You are 100% right. The mag spring is the achilles heel for the 590. I also changed the mag follower. The small stamped sheet metal was junk. Besides that, it ran fine.
OMG, I sometimes wondered if I was the only one. I got a 18.5" (6+1) version of the 590A1 and out of the box, feeding that last shell was sometimes iffy and manually unloading it was a huge pain for that last shell. Upon removing the mag tube cap, the mag tube spring was very short and barely stuck out a inch. I contacted Mossberg about my issues and they sent me a new shell interrupter and stopper plus a new mag tube spring but the problem persisted. Having had positive experience previously with Wolff Springs for my 1911 recoil spring, I searched for and found a replacement mag tube spring and it has run flawlessly ever since. I also swapped that cheap follower for a more high visibility red aluminum replacement. Aside from those initial issues, my 590A1 works fantastic and it's my go-to home defense boomstick.
Wow, tactical shooting that ACTUALLY involves tactics. Best shotgun video I have seen. I’m a retired police officer from the days when we used shotguns on many many calls. The only things I can add is that i carried empty chamber with the hammer down (dry fired) much like your fired round carry. I actually developed that from dove hunting where I was shooting a lot and as hunters can tell you, when shooting a lot it is easy to forget the safety is on. That will cause you to miss a bird in the field but it will get you killed on the street. I loaded two buckshot in the tube, then a slug, then another buckshot. That way I could rack the gun and have buckshot going into the situation. If I needed to shoot further I just racked the gun again (sent him some buckshot first or hit the slide release) and I could switch to slug. To switch back to buckshot just repeat the process. With the last two buckshot in the magazine, if you want a slug there is room in the magazine to slip in a slug and rack the slide again. I also think all reloading should be done into the magazine to avoid a double feed by placing a shell into the ejection port and finding you still had a shell in the magazine. I don’t like shotgun shells in loops because they fall out especially when the elastic starts to get loose. I like the duck hunters neoprene belts and holders that are sewn closed at the bottom
0:39 - Winchester 1200 1:30 - Remington 870 SBS w/Top-folder 1:54 - Mossberg 590 (#50694) 3:01 - 590 weak mag-tube spring 3:35 - 590 Traing at BLACKWATER 4:17 - Remington 870 SBS w/Pachmayr grip 6:09 - DIY Weapon catch for your belt 7:56 - Dry-hull technique 9:14 - Benelli M-2 11:49 - Benelli M-1014 12:06 - Keeping it fed 14:11 - M-2 vs M-1014 15:14 - Breachine rounds 17:31 - Running as a Primary 18:02 - Shell carriers 20:10 - Using shell strip carriers 20:43 - Alternatives to breaching shotguns . 16:59 - It's not brass, it's steel; or some other ferrous metal. Here in the tropical climates, so long as the black is intact, they don't rust.
This was a question I had for the longest time. There's plenty of material on how the Marines used their Benellis during GWOT, but never as much on the Army, let alone Special Forces. Thanks for the video.
Here's a fun Army fact Some US Army Postal units have received shotguns over the years so they can deal with suspicious packages without having to call EOD constantly.
I was a Marine helicopter aircrewman in OIF and I did a lot of prisoner transports. A lot of the Marines and Soldiers on prisoner guard duty were carrying shotguns on our helicopters. Mossberg and Benelli mostly, but a few Remington.
Excellent video Jeff. I ran the M1014 in Ramadi in 2004 and never felt undergunned going without my rifle on patrols. As a civilian, I'm partial to my mag fed Saiga 12.
My buddy has a saiga. He’s pretty good with it. We went to a shotgun golf course, and people were giving him crap until he smoked everyone’s score. Man can shoot, that’s for sure.
My favorite way to keep it. 12 gauge is my go to home defense. Backed up with a duty sized handgun. Gets the job done quickly if needed. Thank you for you confirmation on my choice and your service to our country 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Some winchester 1200's were still in inventory into early GWOT. Our company got about a dozen for our OIF III deployment. They were in a trench gun configuration; we replaced the stocks with pistol grips, and removed the bayonet lug/heatshield. Used them for breaching and EOF from gun truck turrets.
@@jasonbrown5014 They worked fine, I can't recall seeing one fail, though we didn't put a large amount of rounds through them though, especially compared to our machine guns and rifles.
I rocked a 590 in Afghanistan through 2004-2005 about 50% of the time. Our armorers did something to increase spring tension if they didn’t completely replace the spring. Other than that all the 590 and 500 held up great. I saw lots of Marines using super short 870s. When I got into LE I worked a couple of places with 870s, and I even became an 870 armorer. Truthfully, I could toss a coin on an 870 over a Mossberg.
@@ChevTecGroup did you see both extractors break in a 500/590? Did both pins walk out? Curious, just took my bolt out and it seems mechanically impossible for the pins to move once in the receiver.
@dudeguy8287 the problem is the aluminum receiver and poor fit of the pins. The pins will literally walk into the receiver and claw a groove out of it, while at the same time breaking or wearing themselves down. I see it more with he inner extractor/pin
I was law enforcement and we used Remington 870's exclusively. Mostly with 9 pellet 00 Buckshot, although we had slugs av available. I'm no longer in Law Enforcement due to injuries and my 870 would beat the hell out of my bad shoulder. I switched to a Remington 1100 Tactical. It holds 8 2 3/4" in the tube. I haven't shot slugs through it yet. The Winchester loads I've been shooting are still a little stout on my bad shoulder; but it's better than my 870. I'm planning on trying the Federal reduced recoil 00 buckshot loads. Oh, the ways we ways we have to compensate for old age.
These “History of [blank] in Special Forces” videos genuinely bring me so much happiness. I know you were a fantastic 18B by how professional and honest you are in these videos, too many loud clickbait videos around these kind of topics!
One good thing about the 590 is the safety position. Nobody can not argue that safety is slower than any other. Fully ambi, and much easier to manipulate, quickly
Great video! My Army infantry brigade purchased tons of off-the-shelf Mossberg 500s (from three states in all the Walmarts) on the way to Afghanistan (2006-8). There were few Mossberg 590s in the official supply system for infantry battalions that I saw. My gunner in our up-armored hummer had one of these Mossberg 500's and he used the pistol grip. As you know machine guns can't cover dead space along your own vehicle when people come up to you in small villages. He grabbed the Mossy for that duty. I saw a few gunners buy a few homemade shotguns made in Afghanistan/Pakistan out west.....not for me.🤦♂🤦♂
@@ModernTacticalShooting The Army's newest shotgun is $4k. Seems like a waste of money to me for a backup niche weapon. A $300 Mossy 500 was fine for us.
@@ModernTacticalShooting @TheChieftainsHatch (Nicholas Moran) has a video where he mentioned that a shotgun was issued along with his tank (along with some other small arms).
I use either #4 buck ( the smallest buck 24 pellets at .24 inches across) and 00 buck, second largest buck, 9 buckshot at .33 I chest across). Also use solid sabot hollowpoint and Breneke slugs.
@@ScreamiNarwhals after soaking up hundreds of hours drone tactics employed in Ukraine, you seem to be relying on what is "standard" and not what is really happening on a daily basis. They are getting extremely close, close enough to drop munitions from overhead with a very small drone. Many of these are in range for certain shotgun loads, #2 included. I would say, reassess that train of thought.
@mikebarker6628 no drone can fly higher than a bullet except for recon drones which litterally only do that recon. Drones used for fighting have to fly low and are usually standard civilian drones anyone can but
I know a guy who killed a whitetail at 500 yards in front of witnesses with a 1oz 12 gauge slug. I saw him hit a 55 gallon steel drum at a measured quarter mile. A slug can kill a lot further than most people think.
I did two gun training with my sidearm and shotgun. I carried a Winchester model 1300 with an 18" barrel and a Hogue LOP stock. I love the model 1300. It is smooth and you can slam fire it. I also have a Winchester model 12 trench gun from 1957. It was not military issue, but LE issue for riot control. The Mossberg 590A1 came later as well as the Benelli M4. Needless to say, I like shotguns for home defense.
I have a Defender and it’s my 3rd I’ve owned at one time or another. New ones are junk but the old US models rock . They are going for $7 to $800 dollars these days . I’ve also heard they have incredibly strong steel in the barrels also .
Thank you for the outstanding vid. As a Canadian living remotely, I have my gear set up for my 870 . I've done some extensive training with the 870 and if I had to grab one firearm and run...it would be my 870.
Part of my job is training working professionals in technical subjects. This video is a great example of how to do that at a Master level. Real-world examples to illustrate that the instructor has Been There/Done That, but always with the caveat and in the context of it being their own personal experience. Concise enough to keep interest levels high, yet thoroughly covering the essentials. Really, really nicely done. An awesome follow-up on the esoteric subject of military shotgun usage would be to talk to some of the vets who carried them in WW2 and Vietnam. I found Patches Watson's description of how/why he frequently carried an Ithaca 37 in preference to other options to be fascinating reading. Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!
awesome video again Jeff! at 10th group i helped the teams build doors for them to breach during sfauc every summer. really badass to see them employ the shotguns in the shoothouse. I've only ever had to repair 1 590 last year and it was the missing front sight. good times man keep the content going!!
I feel outnumbered, all my friends are rifle guys, however I've always been more of a shotgun guy. I own more Shotguns than rifles. Idk maybe because my dad was a shotgun guy. My go- to home defense gun is my mossberg 590 Shockwave. Thank you for this video and for your service sir, god bless America 🇺🇸
I’ve been a Mossberg owner and user since I turned 18 in ‘98. A 590 Special Purpose was the first gun I ever bought, special ordered it from the Walmart gun counter if anyone can believe that. One of the first things I learned from old school pump shotgun guys was to replace the OEM magazine tube spring with a Wolff Xtra Power spring. I do this on any new shotgun I buy ever since and haven’t had any issues, but I also haven’t ran them in talcum powder sandy environments either. Other things I do is to replace the OEM plastic safety lever with a steel or aluminum one (590A1’s come with a OEM steel lever). Replace the magazine tube follower with a high visibility stainless steel follower, I like the ones from GG&G. Next I replace the trigger group housing with the OEM steel one.
Great video Jeff. I've been shooting 2 gun for 6 years now but only recently did my first 3 gun. I've experimented with DIY breaching rounds years ago by cutting down bird shot and refilling it with iron powder (bought cheap online) and then sealing with high melt beeswax (150 degree melt). I tested it on 3/8 inch plywood and it made great holes with little frang.
I like the dry hull for a breaching shotgun. For a fighting gun I think it could be a liability. It’s the same reason I train to present my pistol with the trigger prepped. I figure I don’t have the quarter second it takes to get on the trigger. Same thing may apply here. I train with my safety while reloading. When I’m practicing going from cold to hot I train cruiser ready since I would be roving with it and cruiser ready is a good safety compromise. I’m just loving the opportunity to talk BS with other shotgun folks. It’s lonely at the range…😢
The Browning 5 was one of the first semiautomatic shotguns and was used in WW1 when the Germans complainants about their use- in trench warfare loaded with buckshot a single soldier could clear a large area, the nozzles that were attached to a muzzle could throw a 10 inch high and 3 foot long pattern.
Great video as always!Like to hear that the Shotgun still gets a professionals endorsement as a viable weapon in CQB.Great home defense weapon especially in restrictive states.Rock On!
Well done Jeff. Back in the 80/90s 1/5th and 1/10th I was using the Win 1200s. When we stood up A/1/5 we had the shorty 870s. One other shotgun that was around was the Remington 870 MCS from 04'-12' in Iraq and Astan that had 10,14 and 18" bbls. Later in Afghanistan ODAs had Mossberg 500/590s, Benelli M1014 and one or two 1200s on TPE (17-21'). Only see Mossbergs in Iraq presently.
Great video, Jeff. Really good info. When we went to Miami with 2/504 PIR after Hurricane Andrew, they'd found some old Ithaca and Mod. 12 Winchesters that had the trench gun heat shields and bayonet lugs. The coolest thing though, were the M1917 bayonets issued with those guns. You know, in case you had to founder a looter's horse.😂
TFB did a video on the "Elite Spanker" shotgun cards, they are pretty cheap and handy, velcro onto the left side of the shotgun and store extras like your custom ones in M4 mag pouches. Definitely seem like a must now and in my opinion make plastic and hard mounted ones 100% redundant. Thanks for the video.
I remember going into an underground bunker range type set up. They gave us old wooden stock model 12's as part of some hokey urban warfare type training. As we got online.. they told us to "aim low".. at the legs of the advancing targets. Of course, we all shot them in the face multiple times. 11B 89-93
That shotty retention rig is the most grunts and crafts thing I've seen in a while, and I love it. I would 100% pick this over the Army's M26 shotgun any day of the week.
Very Cool Video! I remember those outlaw 3 gun match days of the late 90s and early 2000s and the use of shotgun shell pouches like the ones you showed. I used a Mossberg 590 on heavy metal matches in the late 90s but during my time in the NAVY I remember bringing to the attention of the GM1 that was doing the Shotgun CQB course about why the armory was not using Wolff Extra Power Magazine Spring because during one of the evolutions I had a feeding issue that cost me the course record. The GM1 asked me how I knew about that and I told him about my background and he asked me what why I was not a GM instead of a Airedale and I answered with fate!
Love this channel , it’s always like here is a pic of the type of gear and kit I used overseas and then it’s like here is the literal actual kit and gear I used overseas.
As always sir, excellent video. I too agree on the versatility of the shotgun in CQB. Buck Shot, slugs, breaching, and less-lethal bean bags rounds. Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍🏽🇺🇸🦅. .. CW2
That's really interesting -- I've never seen anyone use the shockwave (or shockwave-type shotgun) primarily as a door breacher... but it makes total sense
One way it makes sense to me is because of consistency. If the door guy knows how most doors breach he can be ready at the right moment and move more smoothly. It seems that the chance of a kick not getting the job done could get someone killed. That alone would cause me to switch to a shotgun breach. That’s not a criticism in anyway though. Most of the stuff I’ve learned but never thought of are simple and make sense. I also wonder how we never thought of these things before now. Most things make sense in hindsight.
I think that is a great breakdown of the shotgun system. I l Is love the mossberg 500 . I have not been able to find a good one around my area. So I adopted the mossberg 88 As well as added the.m4 stalk to it. As a home defense weapon but we do use it for hunting. As well and has proved out strong as heck . As well as most of the parts from the mosberg 500 are interchangeable.. Great breakdown of your experience thank you sir.
Wow, I feel like I just got done watching the History Channel - thankyou so much and I wish you all the success.. I especially enjoyed hearing about the influence of competition shooting and how you developed equipment on the fly/in the field. I also thought it was very interesting in the early 2000's it was cops teaching techniques whereas now it's much more common for former military to be teaching the cops. Sincerely...
Pretty sure Sgt first class Colin Fitts used a mossberg 500 or 590 in Fallujah when fighting along side David Bellavia. He used it against the enemy pretty effectively, he also used slugs or buckshot.
Thanks for that comprehensive discussion. Your system of quick deploy reloads & storage retrieval of shotgun shells gave me some valued pointers. Thanks, stay safe & keep on keepin' on.
Great Video! About time someone did a video like this. Everyone talks about the Benelli M4 and the old Winchester Trench Gun with the "slam fire capability". I was in the Marine Corps from 1992-2012 and was a Security Guard for the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing from late 1993 to April of 1996. We guarded the Armory, Ordnance area, and Commanding Generals bldg and accompanied the Commanding Gen on some trips. Its rare for a young LCpl other than Air Crew or MP to be qualified on the M9 Pistol and very rare to get training with the 590A1 Shotgun. We also had the Remington 870's I was very fortunate. Being that I was friends with our Armorer I got my pick between the 590A1 or Rem 870 and chose the 590A1 with wood furniture because I had been shooting a Mossberg 500 since Christmas of 1986 (I was 12 and got one for Christmas). We did the same training course or Familiarization Course (Fam Fire) that the MP's did and some of the drills that Marine Sec Forces and Embassy Guards practice. I loved it and did the course 3 times while I was a Security Guard, which sadly came to an end in spring of 1996 and I had to go back to much hated MOS and never fooled with a Military shotgun again. Until I was on the USS Boxer on my way to Iraq in 2003. We got a familiarization with the Benelli M4. I wanted to take one into Iraq but the Boss said NO. So I went with my M9 and an M16A2. probably the better choice. For folks that have hunted fast moving doves, ducks, geese, rabbits on the run, squirrels, etc. And deer with slugs or .00 .000 buck their entire life, a shotgun just comes natural. I was and still do feel very comfortable with a shotgun. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the Mossberg. they have served me well for almost 40 yrs. I still have and use that old Mossberg 500 I got when I was 12 yrs old in 1986. Its been to the bottom of a lake, submerged in saltwater, left in a boat in an ice storm, dropped out of a tree, sand dirt, etc. Still my primary only hunting shotgun. I have since bought a 8+1 Mossberg 590 tactical, and my wife has a Mossberg 500 in 20ga with wood furniture. The controls and safety are as familiar to me as an AR platform. Although I can afford a Benelli, Stoeger, Winchester, Browning, or any of the more desirable auto loading shotguns, I stick with my Old Trusty Rusty almost 40 yr old Mossberg 500 just to prove a point to the younger generations with their fancy 3 1/2" magnum duck, goose and turkey guns. Its almost out of spite now. LOL. Sorry for writing a book here. Thanks for a great video.
Thanks for your service, glad you got through it then. You are still serving these days with your good, experienced instruction. As a Fleet Marine Force Navy Corpsman my issued weapon in RVN 1970 was a Remington Rand 1911A1. Later I was assigned to a river patrol boat base in the delta area and also toted an Ithaca 12 ga USGI version of the model 37.
I picked up an SOE shotgun rig that holds 24 shells and i can stash another 4 cards in the pouch for 48 in the rig and 13 on the gun. I have another 2, 16 shell carriers on my belt. I don't like to run out. I run 9 pellet buckshot that i cast and load and i make a 600gr slug that doesn't discriminate. That SOE rig is well worth the money, a must have for any shotgunner in the field hunting or on the battlefield.
Brent here, you bring honor to the uniform with your knowledge and delivery of that knowledge. My Winchester 1200 has served although not in combat. Thank you Jeff, well done!!!
I can guarantee you this guy is a bad ass and will always be a bad ass! Thank you sir for your service and just thanking you for that service is not near what we the free owe you. Thank you for sharing this info. While I do have a Vang Comp 590A1 and a Vang Comp 870 I too have replaced the factory mag springs with Nordic Components springs and followers.
Thanks, Jeff. My goal is learning something new every day. You filled my daily quota. In 1976 I saw Marine guards at the Tustin helicopter base (then it was Santa Ana) with Marine-spec Remington 870 shotguns. They had shell pouches for their cartridge belts (pistol belts in the US Army) and also had M7 bayonets--since their helicopter flight line ammo was five #8 trap loads (not buckshot) those bayonets were probably a good idea. In 1981 through 1984 I served as the shift armorer for a quick reaction force in a secure installation. There were three shotguns for the Military Police stored with the QRF weapons complete with M1917 bayonets--two Winchester 1200's and a Stevens 520 win an inoperative safety. I had the installation commander give it a circle-x status since there was no repairing it--the red tag restricted the shotgun to being carried with the chamber empty until the MP was shooting it. When the MP finished shooting and it was okay to do so, the chamber was to be unloaded. Yeah, not good, but the alternative was no shotgun because there was no replacement. I wound up in the Property Book Office of the Nevada Army National Guard for several years and the military police companies were equipped with Mossberg Model 500 shotguns--taking the M7 bayonet. All I did in Nevada was verify serial numbers, something up close and personal, but not maintaining the weapons or firing them. Some of the shotguns were in sorry shape because they were old, shotguns are not part of the Unit Armorer's Course (I graduated from the First Infantry Division's Unit Armorer Course in 1985) and parts availability was low. When I suggested buying commercial replacement parts, I was shown the error of my ways. I could have fixed the Stevens but wasn't authorized to. Most of the shotguns worked as advertised. There's little to go wrong with shotguns. The M1 and M4 semiautomatic shotguns have fewer operator-induced malfunctions than do the pump shotguns, but when a jittery MP puts the shotgun shell in backwards, things get awkward. The Remington and Mossberg remain in service simply because of numbers. I retired in 2010 so I'm not up to speed on what is being carried and what has been relegated to storage for accountability purposes. Various military outfits are required to have shotguns and most commanders would rather keep inoperative guns in their arms room than turn in the broken guns and hold onto a requisition. I would rather not have to drag around a broken weapon that I am not authorized to get repaired commercially (far more possible in the National Guard than in the Big Army--I hope the spec ops community can use commercial gunsmiths when necessary) and a requisition proving that it has been on order for years is superior to an inoperative shotgun that has to be accounted for. Your experience tells me that even in the spec ops community the shotgun isn't well supported.
Those stand-offs do some good. I have an 181/2 inch Mossberg 500 with the stand-off and I run copper "dust" for doors. Hasn't spattered back. I also run a duplex load of #2 buckshot and 4 shot for other things.
A 1980s submarine service veteran we had the Mossberg 500 I remember training reloading Barrel up semi squatted down reloading as you fire not a lot of room for muzzle of a shotgun in a submarine
Outside of breaching, a SMG can do everything a shotgun can do with more accuracy, more round and versatility. In the middle of a firefight, I don’t want to be hand reloading individual shotgun round, when I could do a quick mag change.
8:00 The "dry hull" technique is one of those things that makes so much that I'm kinda pissed I didn't think of it! Hah, but seriously, this was a stellar video, and I am now a subscriber.
Benelli M4 or M1014 is a gas only operated system. The M2 is inertia driven ( one type of the many different recoil systems). The M4/1014 looks internally almost identical to the M2 but does not have the massive spring between the bolt assembly and the locking head assembly. Instead (as you mentioned) it utilizes the ARGO twin piston system. I rabbit hunt and with fractions of second time to shoot. It is easy to not properly shoulder the gun a cause a cycling malfunction the gas system is much less susceptible to this than recoil systems and better with dealing with the the "birds nest" of twigs and thorns that form inside the the gun when pushing through brairs.
Wolff extra power heat treated rocket wire springs resist setting and I have used these in my Mossberg 590SP for 15 years and leave it loaded for long periods with no issues.
@@ModernTacticalShooting that's fair, I might know damn near everything there is to know about Mossberg shotguns, but I'm still a slackjawed civvie. I sure as hell swap every single mag spring out to a Wolff asap. Though in use, I find the Mossberg springs are okay for the first few hundred cycles, you've got to change them super often in heavy use.
My Uncle (5th USSF, Vietnam - '71-'72) used both a Stevens and a Ithica Model 37 12 ga. . He said it was good for clearing trees of snipers and Ambush.
I was in Panama in 90-91 Infantry as a grenadier and we were allowed to use the old Remington 870 instead of our M203s since they changed the ROE so we couldn't use them anyway. We trained with them a little and I enjoyed them but unfortunately not enough to get really familiar. They were really old though, actually from Vietnam era.
U.S. Marines Infantry Active Duty. 1999 to 2003. Was trained in both The Benelli M4 Super 90 and the Mossberg 500. Everything in 12 Gauge. We used them mainly for security details. My main home defense shotgun is an old Ithaca M37.
Very interesting video on the Military usage of shotguns. I had a career Army brother who did tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. I liked hearing about the tactics employed by the teams. Thank you for sharing your experiences
love your channel, ill be honest a lot of vets come across as like trying to sound cool etc sometimes and ive never felt that ever in your vids, you come across as a very humble man, and im cross eye dominant too, assuming you are by lefty rifles and right pistols bc i do the same, luckily found out right after I got my first pistol so ive always shot rifles left so didnt have to unlearn anything
That was a great video. I'm always glad to get a left hander's perspective on different techniques. (Most instructional videos just assume everyone is right handed.)
I carried the 870 on patrol. I would encourage you to spend more time with 12 gauge slugs shooting at longer ranges. A 12 gauge slug can shoot easily out to 300 yards with reasonable accuracy, they're not limited to 100 yards whatsoever. I don't know why they have fallen out offavor, other than perhaps being a fad and inexperienced shooters, but it is absolutely hard to beat the 12 gauge in close quarters, or even outside within 300 yards. If you have a well dialed in shotgun, running slugs at a distance or 00/000 under a yards, they're absolutely devastating. Rifles are great and all, but I think people completely underestimate the versatility, capabilities and lethality of shotguns.
I really liked his loading technique at the end of the video. Using the loop at the end of the Velcro card around your finger to get ammo closer to the loading port. It’s a combination of 3 gun with a military/LE application. I also thought cutting a bandolier into pieces was an economical smart idea. However “Estac” brand cards already come with a loop at the end.
Your videos are always very well thought out and planned, and they’re also always very informative. When I was in the 75th every rifle team leader carried a rem870 breaching shotgun. Most chose to attach it to their kit with a bungee cord, as you said, and we had the purpose built “weapons catches” by Eagle Industries, if I remember correctly. One guy got so tired of it bouncing around on his kit that he went to the riggers and asked them to sew in some rare-earth magnets into his weapons catch so it would stick better. He swore by that little modification. Of course, that wouldn’t work with the Mossbergs because their receivers are made with aluminum and not steel. Anyway, we always did a TON of training with them but I, personally, never even used one on target. Nice to have and not need, I guess.
I suppose different shotguns of the same make are different. I have a 590SP that has never had an issue. The best thing I upgraded was an oversized safety. This OS safety is made by Elite Tactical Advantage. A triangular shaped device that allows many more ways to work the safety. The other upgrade was to switch over that traditional buttstock to a Knoxx Spec-Opps recoil reduction butt stock. I configured enough shell holders that 44 shells can be internal or external on the shotgun. Very satisfied with the 590SP.
Mid 2010s southeastern US our LE Tac teams used the empty hull technique for breachers. Some guys were starting the 3gun style reload. For patrol, if fortunate enough to have two man cars, 1 AR and 1 fighting shotgun I think is a great combo. The downside is the massive increase in less lethal use for shotguns, and frankly the slow decline in standards of LE Officers, many agencies have gone to shotguns are less lethal only. I mean makes sense, but you do lose a lot fire power at point blank range. Lowest common denominator I guess.
the old Remington 870s were JAM QUEENS if short stroked even a bit. It was my 1st shotgun in 3 gun competition and I quickly sold it, 18" barrel and all. Mossberg 500 shotguns are RELIABLE and don't jam! They feel "tinny" burt never fail. But I own a Benelli M1 and used it for many days of due hunting and a few turkey hunts (changed over to short barrel, pistol grip stick and Benelli's ghost ring sights.0 So, yeah, I own 2 barrels, long and short, 2 magazines, short and long, and w stocks, standard and pistol grip. One gun but its, you know, "MODULAR". ;o0
So, the new way to roll with carrying and rounds is velcro 6 or 7 round cards right on the side of the receiver and butt stock. Just like the stuff you carry, two of them will fit inside an M4 pouch. And we can stick them to open velcro on the outside of your kit.
We ran 500s in our Cav squadron for anti rkg-3, breaching, non lethal and just personal weapon. My primary was a 500 with mesa m4 stock setup, side saddle, surefire on my pump handle, and paq on my top rail. Ran Blackhawk shell carrier's. We ran them different then other units. This was 08-09 Iraq.
Best damn gun-related channel on TH-cam.
Thank you!
Way back in 2002 I was a MP in a Reserve GSU mobilized to our active duty component. We had fully integrated with them and eventually over half of our SRT was made up of Reservists. At that point we had zero rifles at all, just our M9’s and Winchester 1300 shotguns. Mine had been modified long before me with one of those top folding stocks. Eventually we begged and borrowed 5 M4’s from the local CID, alongside our 3 M24’s that made up our entire armory. M9’s with LaserMax internal laser sights was the coolest gear we had. We had to beg for smoke grenades and even access to up armored vehicles in case we needed them.
As is usually the case, having to stop the video because of a time constraints and making a comment prior to completion bites me in the butt.
Tim Kennedy has talked at length about him being either in the stack or watching the breach as an observer when that 870 discharges into the thigh of the guy in the course.
As to the powdered substance in the breaching shells, I’m pretty sure that they use magnesium and some use tungsten. Though I’d imagine graphite would do a better job of reducing potential harm to nearby hostages during a breach.
Early on as an MP we rarely ever had actual breaching shells and had to rely upon Winchester-Olin green hull 00 buck. The standard training was 2 shots for the door knob/bolt, and if you had to breach the hinges then each hinge got 3.
Not sure why y’all were getting commercial shiny hull/brass loads. Even in ‘02 we had the contract green hull/lacquered brass loads. Even prior to my enlistment in 2000 I had seen contract overrun loads sold at Walmart. I suspect it’s because as MP’s we already had the distribution system in place. I would prefer to see the use of Remington 8 pellets flight control as opposed to the Winchester/Olin 9 pellet. It tends to group better and have less deformation allowing better terminal performance as well.
This man and mr. Paul Harrell.
"Best damn gun-related channel" how ? how did you measured that? not saying the contrary,but genuinely interested in how did you scaled that classification? (other than your personal opinion)
“I never used it against an enemy combatant, even though a tried.” Lol
Made me chuckle how he sounded sad he hadn’t been able to
That and the way of the gun reference made me smile
Don't wish it unless you have the stomach to see a chunk of meat from the ground at close range.
@@eagleace67 I’d say he probably knows that bud. He’s a SF career combat vet
should be "...I tried...."
Carried the 590 in the Army and as a Police Officer. I learned long ago to change the mag spring to a Wolf +power spring. You are 100% right. The mag spring is the achilles heel for the 590. I also changed the mag follower. The small stamped sheet metal was junk. Besides that, it ran fine.
Yes due to video length I didn't mention 590 must do upgrades..Wolf springs for the win.
I carried a 590 as a duty gun for about three years, and yeah, their springs suck. The rest of the gun was great, though.
@@dangvorbei5304 agreed. Changed out the springs and it’s been solid.
@@emersonchattin9512 The follower, too. It takes nothing at all to rust.
OMG, I sometimes wondered if I was the only one. I got a 18.5" (6+1) version of the 590A1 and out of the box, feeding that last shell was sometimes iffy and manually unloading it was a huge pain for that last shell. Upon removing the mag tube cap, the mag tube spring was very short and barely stuck out a inch. I contacted Mossberg about my issues and they sent me a new shell interrupter and stopper plus a new mag tube spring but the problem persisted. Having had positive experience previously with Wolff Springs for my 1911 recoil spring, I searched for and found a replacement mag tube spring and it has run flawlessly ever since. I also swapped that cheap follower for a more high visibility red aluminum replacement. Aside from those initial issues, my 590A1 works fantastic and it's my go-to home defense boomstick.
Wow, tactical shooting that ACTUALLY involves tactics. Best shotgun video I have seen. I’m a retired police officer from the days when we used shotguns on many many calls. The only things I can add is that i carried empty chamber with the hammer down (dry fired) much like your fired round carry. I actually developed that from dove hunting where I was shooting a lot and as hunters can tell you, when shooting a lot it is easy to forget the safety is on. That will cause you to miss a bird in the field but it will get you killed on the street. I loaded two buckshot in the tube, then a slug, then another buckshot. That way I could rack the gun and have buckshot going into the situation. If I needed to shoot further I just racked the gun again (sent him some buckshot first or hit the slide release) and I could switch to slug. To switch back to buckshot just repeat the process. With the last two buckshot in the magazine, if you want a slug there is room in the magazine to slip in a slug and rack the slide again. I also think all reloading should be done into the magazine to avoid a double feed by placing a shell into the ejection port and finding you still had a shell in the magazine. I don’t like shotgun shells in loops because they fall out especially when the elastic starts to get loose. I like the duck hunters neoprene belts and holders that are sewn closed at the bottom
Had 1200’s in Vietnam. Used to use them to shoot flèche rounds into the perimeter wire at nights.
I was there 65, 66 and 67.
I still have a 1200.
Awesome!
Did you ever find out you hit something/someone in the morning?
@@williamflowers9435grow up dude. Leave the man alone.
@@Hadouken5150it’s a fair question. If the guy is willing to comment that they did that he’s probably not too F’d up about answering.
Are they better than buckshot, or better for a certain distance?
0:39 - Winchester 1200
1:30 - Remington 870 SBS w/Top-folder
1:54 - Mossberg 590 (#50694)
3:01 - 590 weak mag-tube spring
3:35 - 590 Traing at BLACKWATER
4:17 - Remington 870 SBS w/Pachmayr grip
6:09 - DIY Weapon catch for your belt
7:56 - Dry-hull technique
9:14 - Benelli M-2
11:49 - Benelli M-1014
12:06 - Keeping it fed
14:11 - M-2 vs M-1014
15:14 - Breachine rounds
17:31 - Running as a Primary
18:02 - Shell carriers
20:10 - Using shell strip carriers
20:43 - Alternatives to breaching shotguns
.
16:59 - It's not brass, it's steel; or some other ferrous metal. Here in the tropical climates, so long as the black is intact, they don't rust.
Thank you
This was a question I had for the longest time. There's plenty of material on how the Marines used their Benellis during GWOT, but never as much on the Army, let alone Special Forces. Thanks for the video.
Here's a fun Army fact
Some US Army Postal units have received shotguns over the years so they can deal with suspicious packages without having to call EOD constantly.
@@joet.s.6283 I appreciate the fun fact, friend. Thank you.
I was a Marine helicopter aircrewman in OIF and I did a lot of prisoner transports. A lot of the Marines and Soldiers on prisoner guard duty were carrying shotguns on our helicopters. Mossberg and Benelli mostly, but a few Remington.
Excellent video Jeff. I ran the M1014 in Ramadi in 2004 and never felt undergunned going without my rifle on patrols. As a civilian, I'm partial to my mag fed Saiga 12.
Hell Yeah
You should’ve bought a M4. Saigas are trash.
....and you ran a shotgun in what theatre of action....?@@Hadouken5150
My buddy has a saiga. He’s pretty good with it. We went to a shotgun golf course, and people were giving him crap until he smoked everyone’s score. Man can shoot, that’s for sure.
@@Hadouken5150 saigas are trash but veprs aren't
The Dry Hull technique is also known as Cruiser Ready. For those of you starting out taking shooting classes.
Yes...Cruiser Ready Law Enforcement term
My favorite way to keep it. 12 gauge is my go to home defense. Backed up with a duty sized handgun. Gets the job done quickly if needed. Thank you for you confirmation on my choice and your service to our country 🇺🇸🇺🇸
This is how i keep my Remington by my bed.
Dry hull involves a spent shell in the chamber. Cruiser ready is similar but doesn’t involve the spent shell in the chamber.
Dry hull involves a spent shell in the chamber. Cruiser ready is similar but doesn’t involve the spent shell in the chamber.
Some winchester 1200's were still in inventory into early GWOT. Our company got about a dozen for our OIF III deployment.
They were in a trench gun configuration; we replaced the stocks with pistol grips, and removed the bayonet lug/heatshield.
Used them for breaching and EOF from gun truck turrets.
How did they hold up? Were they reliable and durable?
@@jasonbrown5014 They worked fine, I can't recall seeing one fail, though we didn't put a large amount of rounds through them though, especially compared to our machine guns and rifles.
ty sir@@charlesstanavich8648
I rocked a 590 in Afghanistan through 2004-2005 about 50% of the time. Our armorers did something to increase spring tension if they didn’t completely replace the spring. Other than that all the 590 and 500 held up great. I saw lots of Marines using super short 870s. When I got into LE I worked a couple of places with 870s, and I even became an 870 armorer. Truthfully, I could toss a coin on an 870 over a Mossberg.
590 vs 870 is a toss up. The 500s are junk. I've fixed so many that broke from normal wear
@@ChevTecGroup What broke? The extractors?
@@fredsmith9788 that and the extractor pins would walk out and gouge out the aluminum receiver
@@ChevTecGroup did you see both extractors break in a 500/590? Did both pins walk out? Curious, just took my bolt out and it seems mechanically impossible for the pins to move once in the receiver.
@dudeguy8287 the problem is the aluminum receiver and poor fit of the pins. The pins will literally walk into the receiver and claw a groove out of it, while at the same time breaking or wearing themselves down. I see it more with he inner extractor/pin
I was law enforcement and we used Remington 870's exclusively. Mostly with 9 pellet 00 Buckshot, although we had slugs av available. I'm no longer in Law Enforcement due to injuries and my 870 would beat the hell out of my bad shoulder. I switched to a Remington 1100 Tactical. It holds 8 2 3/4" in the tube. I haven't shot slugs through it yet. The Winchester loads I've been shooting are still a little stout on my bad shoulder; but it's better than my 870. I'm planning on trying the Federal reduced recoil 00 buckshot loads. Oh, the ways we ways we have to compensate for old age.
I owned a 1100 Police for quite some time
There is a leather" Orginal Power" brand pad that works so well on my shoulder
These “History of [blank] in Special Forces” videos genuinely bring me so much happiness. I know you were a fantastic 18B by how professional and honest you are in these videos, too many loud clickbait videos around these kind of topics!
I wish I took way more pics in the early days!
One good thing about the 590 is the safety position. Nobody can not argue that safety is slower than any other. Fully ambi, and much easier to manipulate, quickly
True
This is a very cool video. Thanks for making it.
Great video! My Army infantry brigade purchased tons of off-the-shelf Mossberg 500s (from three states in all the Walmarts) on the way to Afghanistan (2006-8). There were few Mossberg 590s in the official supply system for infantry battalions that I saw. My gunner in our up-armored hummer had one of these Mossberg 500's and he used the pistol grip. As you know machine guns can't cover dead space along your own vehicle when people come up to you in small villages. He grabbed the Mossy for that duty. I saw a few gunners buy a few homemade shotguns made in Afghanistan/Pakistan out west.....not for me.🤦♂🤦♂
Yes I failed to mention shotguns in turrets, very popular
@@ModernTacticalShooting The Army's newest shotgun is $4k. Seems like a waste of money to me for a backup niche weapon. A $300 Mossy 500 was fine for us.
@@branned A whole batch of guns is worth less than a tomahawk. give the infantry some love.
@@ModernTacticalShooting @TheChieftainsHatch (Nicholas Moran) has a video where he mentioned that a shotgun was issued along with his tank (along with some other small arms).
@@kevinalmgren8332I believe they stuck the pistol grip stock and fore end on theirs.
Big future for shotguns in the military. #2 shot goes pretty far to reach out and say hello to a drone.
I use either #4 buck ( the smallest buck 24 pellets at .24 inches across) and 00 buck, second largest buck, 9 buckshot at .33 I chest across). Also use solid sabot hollowpoint and Breneke slugs.
Good luck with that. Standard drone tactics say to fly too high for shotguns and the like on purpose.
@@ScreamiNarwhals after soaking up hundreds of hours drone tactics employed in Ukraine, you seem to be relying on what is "standard" and not what is really happening on a daily basis. They are getting extremely close, close enough to drop munitions from overhead with a very small drone. Many of these are in range for certain shotgun loads, #2 included.
I would say, reassess that train of thought.
Bird shot for them drones you forget drones are 90 percent ts cheap plastic
@mikebarker6628 no drone can fly higher than a bullet except for recon drones which litterally only do that recon. Drones used for fighting have to fly low and are usually standard civilian drones anyone can but
Slugs are lethal out of a 12 gauge, reliably, out to 400 yards. Buck out to 150 yards. In case anybody is curious. Great video!
I know a guy who killed a whitetail at 500 yards in front of witnesses with a 1oz 12 gauge slug. I saw him hit a 55 gallon steel drum at a measured quarter mile. A slug can kill a lot further than most people think.
17 years - thank you for your service! Also - your videos are awesome, thanks for spending the time and effort to share.
Thanks
I did two gun training with my sidearm and shotgun. I carried a Winchester model 1300 with an 18" barrel and a Hogue LOP stock. I love the model 1300. It is smooth and you can slam fire it. I also have a Winchester model 12 trench gun from 1957. It was not military issue, but LE issue for riot control. The Mossberg 590A1 came later as well as the Benelli M4. Needless to say, I like shotguns for home defense.
I have a Defender and it’s my 3rd I’ve owned at one time or another. New ones are junk but the old US models rock . They are going for $7 to $800 dollars these days . I’ve also heard they have incredibly strong steel in the barrels also .
Thank you for the outstanding vid. As a Canadian living remotely, I have my gear set up for my 870 . I've done some extensive training with the 870 and if I had to grab one firearm and run...it would be my 870.
I was so excited to see some real world experience and shotgun content. Thanks for sharing!
Great info! I’ve always been fascinated with shotguns in the US military starting back in WW1
Part of my job is training working professionals in technical subjects. This video is a great example of how to do that at a Master level. Real-world examples to illustrate that the instructor has Been There/Done That, but always with the caveat and in the context of it being their own personal experience. Concise enough to keep interest levels high, yet thoroughly covering the essentials. Really, really nicely done.
An awesome follow-up on the esoteric subject of military shotgun usage would be to talk to some of the vets who carried them in WW2 and Vietnam. I found Patches Watson's description of how/why he frequently carried an Ithaca 37 in preference to other options to be fascinating reading.
Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your input!
awesome video again Jeff! at 10th group i helped the teams build doors for them to breach during sfauc every summer. really badass to see them employ the shotguns in the shoothouse. I've only ever had to repair 1 590 last year and it was the missing front sight. good times man keep the content going!!
I feel outnumbered, all my friends are rifle guys, however I've always been more of a shotgun guy. I own more Shotguns than rifles. Idk maybe because my dad was a shotgun guy. My go- to home defense gun is my mossberg 590 Shockwave. Thank you for this video and for your service sir, god bless America 🇺🇸
I'm with you. Scatter guns for defense are great. Only downside is keep em full and have a handgun to fill in the blank spots when needed
I think we need more of you!! Like bass players!! All bands/groups need one but everyone wanna play guitar(carbine)
I just saw a video that stated shotgun guys are built different. We are. Accept it and let your shotgun freak flag fly brother.
@@mikewithers299keeping it full just means we’re better at reloading. Shotguns are how civilian shooters separate the men from the boys.
@LFDNC absolutely brother. We are a different breed and we know it. I keep the same mentality during gaming. I always have a scattergun by my side.
I’ve been a Mossberg owner and user since I turned 18 in ‘98. A 590 Special Purpose was the first gun I ever bought, special ordered it from the Walmart gun counter if anyone can believe that. One of the first things I learned from old school pump shotgun guys was to replace the OEM magazine tube spring with a Wolff Xtra Power spring. I do this on any new shotgun I buy ever since and haven’t had any issues, but I also haven’t ran them in talcum powder sandy environments either.
Other things I do is to replace the OEM plastic safety lever with a steel or aluminum one (590A1’s come with a OEM steel lever). Replace the magazine tube follower with a high visibility stainless steel follower, I like the ones from GG&G. Next I replace the trigger group housing with the OEM steel one.
Great video Jeff. I've been shooting 2 gun for 6 years now but only recently did my first 3 gun. I've experimented with DIY breaching rounds years ago by cutting down bird shot and refilling it with iron powder (bought cheap online) and then sealing with high melt beeswax (150 degree melt). I tested it on 3/8 inch plywood and it made great holes with little frang.
I really like the idea of the dry hull technique. Similar to a cruiser ready style of carry and makes a lot of sense given the use
I like the dry hull for a breaching shotgun. For a fighting gun I think it could be a liability. It’s the same reason I train to present my pistol with the trigger prepped. I figure I don’t have the quarter second it takes to get on the trigger. Same thing may apply here. I train with my safety while reloading. When I’m practicing going from cold to hot I train cruiser ready since I would be roving with it and cruiser ready is a good safety compromise.
I’m just loving the opportunity to talk BS with other shotgun folks. It’s lonely at the range…😢
The Browning 5 was one of the first semiautomatic shotguns and was used in WW1 when the Germans complainants about their use- in trench warfare loaded with buckshot a single soldier could clear a large area, the nozzles that were attached to a muzzle could throw a 10 inch high and 3 foot long pattern.
Great video as always!Like to hear that the Shotgun still gets a professionals endorsement as a viable weapon in CQB.Great home defense weapon especially in restrictive states.Rock On!
Well done Jeff. Back in the 80/90s 1/5th and 1/10th I was using the Win 1200s. When we stood up A/1/5 we had the shorty 870s. One other shotgun that was around was the Remington 870 MCS from 04'-12' in Iraq and Astan that had 10,14 and 18" bbls. Later in Afghanistan ODAs had Mossberg 500/590s, Benelli M1014 and one or two 1200s on TPE (17-21'). Only see Mossbergs in Iraq presently.
Great video, Jeff. Really good info. When we went to Miami with 2/504 PIR after Hurricane Andrew, they'd found some old Ithaca and Mod. 12 Winchesters that had the trench gun heat shields and bayonet lugs. The coolest thing though, were the M1917 bayonets issued with those guns. You know, in case you had to founder a looter's horse.😂
Found, as in tactically acquired by force in an unconstitutional door to door fashion a la Hurricane Katrina?
Just timely, I'm on a tactical shotgun binge! Thank you Sir
TFB did a video on the "Elite Spanker" shotgun cards, they are pretty cheap and handy, velcro onto the left side of the shotgun and store extras like your custom ones in M4 mag pouches. Definitely seem like a must now and in my opinion make plastic and hard mounted ones 100% redundant. Thanks for the video.
Haha, "spanker" makes some good stuff, although now they are not so cheap , not like the other Chinese manufacturers.
I remember going into an underground bunker range type set up. They gave us old wooden stock model 12's as part of some hokey urban warfare type training.
As we got online.. they told us to "aim low".. at the legs of the advancing targets.
Of course, we all shot them in the face multiple times.
11B 89-93
That shotty retention rig is the most grunts and crafts thing I've seen in a while, and I love it. I would 100% pick this over the Army's M26 shotgun any day of the week.
I’m going to give the retention rig a shot. It’s simple and makes sense. Plus I have multiple rolls of 100 mph tape in my car.
Very Cool Video! I remember those outlaw 3 gun match days of the late 90s and early 2000s and the use of shotgun shell pouches like the ones you showed. I used a Mossberg 590 on heavy metal matches in the late 90s but during my time in the NAVY I remember bringing to the attention of the GM1 that was doing the Shotgun CQB course about why the armory was not using Wolff Extra Power Magazine Spring because during one of the evolutions I had a feeding issue that cost me the course record. The GM1 asked me how I knew about that and I told him about my background and he asked me what why I was not a GM instead of a Airedale and I answered with fate!
Love the system series. Please do one on the dip cans and belt feds. Keep them coming.
Love this channel , it’s always like here is a pic of the type of gear and kit I used overseas and then it’s like here is the literal actual kit and gear I used overseas.
What an excellent video. I was recently wondering about how SF use shotguns and this basically was everything I wanted to know. Great channel.
As always sir, excellent video. I too agree on the versatility of the shotgun in CQB. Buck Shot, slugs, breaching, and less-lethal bean bags rounds. Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍🏽🇺🇸🦅. .. CW2
That's really interesting -- I've never seen anyone use the shockwave (or shockwave-type shotgun) primarily as a door breacher... but it makes total sense
One way it makes sense to me is because of consistency. If the door guy knows how most doors breach he can be ready at the right moment and move more smoothly. It seems that the chance of a kick not getting the job done could get someone killed. That alone would cause me to switch to a shotgun breach.
That’s not a criticism in anyway though. Most of the stuff I’ve learned but never thought of are simple and make sense. I also wonder how we never thought of these things before now. Most things make sense in hindsight.
Another informative video Jeff!
Never carried a shotgun as a Ranger, but carried a Remington 870P as a deputy back in the 1980s.
I think that is a great breakdown of the shotgun system. I l Is love the mossberg 500 . I have not been able to find a good one around my area. So I adopted the mossberg 88 As well as added the.m4 stalk to it. As a home defense weapon but we do use it for hunting. As well and has proved out strong as heck . As well as most of the parts from the mosberg 500 are interchangeable.. Great breakdown of your experience thank you sir.
9:28 "as much as I tried" . Were you flecking combatants and they were giving you shoulder shrugs ?
Love it anytime Jeff drops a new history video.
Wow, I feel like I just got done watching the History Channel - thankyou so much and I wish you all the success.. I especially enjoyed hearing about the influence of competition shooting and how you developed equipment on the fly/in the field. I also thought it was very interesting in the early 2000's it was cops teaching techniques whereas now it's much more common for former military to be teaching the cops. Sincerely...
That's my goal capture history from what I saw
Pretty sure Sgt first class Colin Fitts used a mossberg 500 or 590 in Fallujah when fighting along side David Bellavia. He used it against the enemy pretty effectively, he also used slugs or buckshot.
Nice, thanks for your service and the real world information. Myself, I am just a retired LEO and used a shotgun for various uses.
Thanks for that comprehensive discussion. Your system of quick deploy reloads & storage retrieval of shotgun shells gave me some valued pointers. Thanks, stay safe & keep on keepin' on.
I love this channel. Real guy, real info.
Thanks!
Great Video! About time someone did a video like this. Everyone talks about the Benelli M4 and the old Winchester Trench Gun with the "slam fire capability".
I was in the Marine Corps from 1992-2012 and was a Security Guard for the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing from late 1993 to April of 1996. We guarded the Armory, Ordnance area, and Commanding Generals bldg and accompanied the Commanding Gen on some trips. Its rare for a young LCpl other than Air Crew or MP to be qualified on the M9 Pistol and very rare to get training with the 590A1 Shotgun. We also had the Remington 870's I was very fortunate.
Being that I was friends with our Armorer I got my pick between the 590A1 or Rem 870 and chose the 590A1 with wood furniture because I had been shooting a Mossberg 500 since Christmas of 1986 (I was 12 and got one for Christmas). We did the same training course or Familiarization Course (Fam Fire) that the MP's did and some of the drills that Marine Sec Forces and Embassy Guards practice. I loved it and did the course 3 times while I was a Security Guard, which sadly came to an end in spring of 1996 and I had to go back to much hated MOS and never fooled with a Military shotgun again. Until I was on the USS Boxer on my way to Iraq in 2003. We got a familiarization with the Benelli M4. I wanted to take one into Iraq but the Boss said NO. So I went with my M9 and an M16A2. probably the better choice.
For folks that have hunted fast moving doves, ducks, geese, rabbits on the run, squirrels, etc. And deer with slugs or .00 .000 buck their entire life, a shotgun just comes natural. I was and still do feel very comfortable with a shotgun.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the Mossberg. they have served me well for almost 40 yrs. I still have and use that old Mossberg 500 I got when I was 12 yrs old in 1986. Its been to the bottom of a lake, submerged in saltwater, left in a boat in an ice storm, dropped out of a tree, sand dirt, etc. Still my primary only hunting shotgun. I have since bought a 8+1 Mossberg 590 tactical, and my wife has a Mossberg 500 in 20ga with wood furniture. The controls and safety are as familiar to me as an AR platform.
Although I can afford a Benelli, Stoeger, Winchester, Browning, or any of the more desirable auto loading shotguns, I stick with my Old Trusty Rusty almost 40 yr old Mossberg 500 just to prove a point to the younger generations with their fancy 3 1/2" magnum duck, goose and turkey guns. Its almost out of spite now. LOL.
Sorry for writing a book here. Thanks for a great video.
Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for your service, glad you got through it then. You are still serving these days with your good, experienced instruction.
As a Fleet Marine Force Navy Corpsman my issued weapon in RVN 1970 was a Remington Rand 1911A1.
Later I was assigned to a river patrol boat base in the delta area and also toted an Ithaca 12 ga USGI version of the model 37.
I picked up an SOE shotgun rig that holds 24 shells and i can stash another 4 cards in the pouch for 48 in the rig and 13 on the gun. I have another 2, 16 shell carriers on my belt. I don't like to run out. I run 9 pellet buckshot that i cast and load and i make a 600gr slug that doesn't discriminate. That SOE rig is well worth the money, a must have for any shotgunner in the field hunting or on the battlefield.
Learned more real-world tips and tricks to run a pump or semi from this here video than years of TH-cam. You have my sub now!
Awesome
Empty hull deployment, excellent tactics! 👍 thanks Sir. Going to unload my M590A1!
Brent here, you bring honor to the uniform with your knowledge and delivery of that knowledge. My Winchester 1200 has served although not in combat. Thank you Jeff, well done!!!
Thank you..too kind
I can guarantee you this guy is a bad ass and will always be a bad ass! Thank you sir for your service and just thanking you for that service is not near what we the free owe you. Thank you for sharing this info. While I do have a Vang Comp 590A1 and a Vang Comp 870 I too have replaced the factory mag springs with Nordic Components springs and followers.
@@robertezell1916 I at one time owned a 590A1 wish I had held onto it.
Thanks, Jeff. My goal is learning something new every day. You filled my daily quota.
In 1976 I saw Marine guards at the Tustin helicopter base (then it was Santa Ana) with Marine-spec Remington 870 shotguns. They had shell pouches for their cartridge belts (pistol belts in the US Army) and also had M7 bayonets--since their helicopter flight line ammo was five #8 trap loads (not buckshot) those bayonets were probably a good idea.
In 1981 through 1984 I served as the shift armorer for a quick reaction force in a secure installation. There were three shotguns for the Military Police stored with the QRF weapons complete with M1917 bayonets--two Winchester 1200's and a Stevens 520 win an inoperative safety. I had the installation commander give it a circle-x status since there was no repairing it--the red tag restricted the shotgun to being carried with the chamber empty until the MP was shooting it. When the MP finished shooting and it was okay to do so, the chamber was to be unloaded. Yeah, not good, but the alternative was no shotgun because there was no replacement.
I wound up in the Property Book Office of the Nevada Army National Guard for several years and the military police companies were equipped with Mossberg Model 500 shotguns--taking the M7 bayonet. All I did in Nevada was verify serial numbers, something up close and personal, but not maintaining the weapons or firing them.
Some of the shotguns were in sorry shape because they were old, shotguns are not part of the Unit Armorer's Course (I graduated from the First Infantry Division's Unit Armorer Course in 1985) and parts availability was low. When I suggested buying commercial replacement parts, I was shown the error of my ways. I could have fixed the Stevens but wasn't authorized to. Most of the shotguns worked as advertised. There's little to go wrong with shotguns. The M1 and M4 semiautomatic shotguns have fewer operator-induced malfunctions than do the pump shotguns, but when a jittery MP puts the shotgun shell in backwards, things get awkward.
The Remington and Mossberg remain in service simply because of numbers. I retired in 2010 so I'm not up to speed on what is being carried and what has been relegated to storage for accountability purposes. Various military outfits are required to have shotguns and most commanders would rather keep inoperative guns in their arms room than turn in the broken guns and hold onto a requisition. I would rather not have to drag around a broken weapon that I am not authorized to get repaired commercially (far more possible in the National Guard than in the Big Army--I hope the spec ops community can use commercial gunsmiths when necessary) and a requisition proving that it has been on order for years is superior to an inoperative shotgun that has to be accounted for. Your experience tells me that even in the spec ops community the shotgun isn't well supported.
Thanks for sharing
Those stand-offs do some good. I have an 181/2 inch Mossberg 500 with the stand-off and I run copper "dust" for doors. Hasn't spattered back. I also run a duplex load of #2 buckshot and 4 shot for other things.
A 1980s submarine service veteran we had the Mossberg 500 I remember training reloading Barrel up semi squatted down reloading as you fire not a lot of room for muzzle of a shotgun in a submarine
It really is/was different by Group. I got the team in 2000 and in 2002 we had 4 per team, two shorty 870s for breaching and two 590s.
Outside of breaching, a SMG can do everything a shotgun can do with more accuracy, more round and versatility. In the middle of a firefight, I don’t want to be hand reloading individual shotgun round, when I could do a quick mag change.
Inside 35 yards there is no other besides the 12. Full auto smg or not.
8:00 The "dry hull" technique is one of those things that makes so much that I'm kinda pissed I didn't think of it! Hah, but seriously, this was a stellar video, and I am now a subscriber.
Benelli M4 or M1014 is a gas only operated system. The M2 is inertia driven ( one type of the many different recoil systems). The M4/1014 looks internally almost identical to the M2 but does not have the massive spring between the bolt assembly and the locking head assembly. Instead (as you mentioned) it utilizes the ARGO twin piston system. I rabbit hunt and with fractions of second time to shoot. It is easy to not properly shoulder the gun a cause a cycling malfunction the gas system is much less susceptible to this than recoil systems and better with dealing with the the "birds nest" of twigs and thorns that form inside the the gun when pushing through brairs.
Wolff extra power heat treated rocket wire springs resist setting and I have used these in my Mossberg 590SP for 15 years and leave it loaded for long periods with no issues.
As a Mossberg master armorer, I'm shocked your armorer didn't drylube and replace your mag springs with wolf springs.
Commercial parts in Arms rooms don't exist. Do 18B go out and source better parts on their own? ...yes
@@ModernTacticalShooting that's fair, I might know damn near everything there is to know about Mossberg shotguns, but I'm still a slackjawed civvie. I sure as hell swap every single mag spring out to a Wolff asap. Though in use, I find the Mossberg springs are okay for the first few hundred cycles, you've got to change them super often in heavy use.
How does the 590a1 compare to a standard 590? Does it suffer from the same issues?
@@kgbreviews35 yeah, the magazine spring is the same. it's a simple fix though.
Great video . Clear and understandable for everyone. Excellent presentation
Thank you
Is that a Beretta M12 on the table at 1:05? Interesting video as usual too!
Benelli M4
As Infantry In the 1980's we still had the old Trench Guns in the arms room.
My Uncle (5th USSF, Vietnam - '71-'72) used both a Stevens and a Ithica Model 37 12 ga. . He said it was good for clearing trees of snipers and Ambush.
Thankyou for your service sir , God bless you !
I was in Panama in 90-91 Infantry as a grenadier and we were allowed to use the old Remington 870 instead of our M203s since they changed the ROE so we couldn't use them anyway. We trained with them a little and I enjoyed them but unfortunately not enough to get really familiar. They were really old though, actually from Vietnam era.
Thank You For Sharing The Dry Hull Technique. Excellent Presentation, As Usual !
Very cool. Any chance of a M9 experience focused video?
Perhaps maybe in the future
U.S. Marines Infantry Active Duty. 1999 to 2003. Was trained in both The Benelli M4 Super 90 and the Mossberg 500. Everything in
12 Gauge. We used them mainly for security details. My main home defense shotgun is an old Ithaca M37.
I always liked how the Benellis recoil felt.
82d still had Win 1200 in the first gulf war...never used them.
The " dry hull" technique is what i was taught in the Dept of Energy breeching course.
Very interesting video on the Military usage of shotguns. I had a career Army brother who did tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. I liked hearing about the tactics employed by the teams. Thank you for sharing your experiences
I love this inisght to small arms related to special forces and the us military... it really shows you dont need much to be effective. Thank you!
love your channel, ill be honest a lot of vets come across as like trying to sound cool etc sometimes and ive never felt that ever in your vids, you come across as a very humble man, and im cross eye dominant too, assuming you are by lefty rifles and right pistols bc i do the same, luckily found out right after I got my first pistol so ive always shot rifles left so didnt have to unlearn anything
Thank you, while I'm extremely proud of my time in SF, I try to ensure I don't come across as a douche bag over it!
@ModernTacticalShooting you did an awesome job of that. I subbed bcuz of that and the great content you provided 🇺🇸🇺🇸
I'm happy this channel was suggested, very valuable content
Your in!
That was a great video. I'm always glad to get a left hander's perspective on different techniques. (Most instructional videos just assume everyone is right handed.)
Loved the M2 with some badass slugs.
In 05 we had the 590 A1. The spring issue wasn't addressed then either. I own one now and it uses a different spring.
Outstanding Shotgun information!! Thanks for posting this video.
Sorry to hear that. My experience with Mossberg 500 and 590 has always been positive. Customer service interactions have been very good as well.
I carried the 870 on patrol.
I would encourage you to spend more time with 12 gauge slugs shooting at longer ranges.
A 12 gauge slug can shoot easily out to 300 yards with reasonable accuracy, they're not limited to 100 yards whatsoever.
I don't know why they have fallen out offavor, other than perhaps being a fad and inexperienced shooters, but it is absolutely hard to beat the 12 gauge in close quarters, or even outside within 300 yards.
If you have a well dialed in shotgun, running slugs at a distance or 00/000 under a yards, they're absolutely devastating.
Rifles are great and all, but I think people completely underestimate the versatility, capabilities and lethality of shotguns.
I really liked his loading technique at the end of the video. Using the loop at the end of the Velcro card around your finger to get ammo closer to the loading port. It’s a combination of 3 gun with a military/LE application.
I also thought cutting a bandolier into pieces was an economical smart idea. However “Estac” brand cards already come with a loop at the end.
We had the Mossberg 500s. Wish they had invested time in training us with them. The MLARM course opened my eyes to a lot. Great stuff Snake Eater!
Your videos are always very well thought out and planned, and they’re also always very informative. When I was in the 75th every rifle team leader carried a rem870 breaching shotgun. Most chose to attach it to their kit with a bungee cord, as you said, and we had the purpose built “weapons catches” by Eagle Industries, if I remember correctly. One guy got so tired of it bouncing around on his kit that he went to the riggers and asked them to sew in some rare-earth magnets into his weapons catch so it would stick better. He swore by that little modification. Of course, that wouldn’t work with the Mossbergs because their receivers are made with aluminum and not steel. Anyway, we always did a TON of training with them but I, personally, never even used one on target. Nice to have and not need, I guess.
I suppose different shotguns of the same make are different. I have a 590SP that has never had an issue. The best thing I upgraded was an oversized safety. This OS safety is made by Elite Tactical Advantage. A triangular shaped device that allows many more ways to work the safety. The other upgrade was to switch over that traditional buttstock to a Knoxx Spec-Opps recoil reduction butt stock. I configured enough shell holders that 44 shells can be internal or external on the shotgun. Very satisfied with the 590SP.
We told Mossberg of our magazine tube spring issue, hopefully its better now. But ready other's comments perhaps seems not.
Mid 2010s southeastern US our LE Tac teams used the empty hull technique for breachers. Some guys were starting the 3gun style reload.
For patrol, if fortunate enough to have two man cars, 1 AR and 1 fighting shotgun I think is a great combo. The downside is the massive increase in less lethal use for shotguns, and frankly the slow decline in standards of LE Officers, many agencies have gone to shotguns are less lethal only. I mean makes sense, but you do lose a lot fire power at point blank range. Lowest common denominator I guess.
the old Remington 870s were JAM QUEENS if short stroked even a bit. It was my 1st shotgun in 3 gun competition and I quickly sold it, 18" barrel and all. Mossberg 500 shotguns are RELIABLE and don't jam! They feel "tinny" burt never fail.
But I own a Benelli M1 and used it for many days of due hunting and a few turkey hunts (changed over to short barrel, pistol grip stick and Benelli's ghost ring sights.0 So, yeah, I own 2 barrels, long and short, 2 magazines, short and long, and w stocks, standard and pistol grip. One gun but its, you know, "MODULAR". ;o0
So, the new way to roll with carrying and rounds is velcro 6 or 7 round cards right on the side of the receiver and butt stock. Just like the stuff you carry, two of them will fit inside an M4 pouch. And we can stick them to open velcro on the outside of your kit.
Great info. Thank you and greetings from Finland.
As always, very informative and entertaining. Solid piece of knowledge without all the bells and whistles. Cheers!
Holy cow I'm old. I first went into the US Army in 1977. Had all I could tolorate in 1987. I was long gone when you went to boot camp.
We ran 500s in our Cav squadron for anti rkg-3, breaching, non lethal and just personal weapon. My primary was a 500 with mesa m4 stock setup, side saddle, surefire on my pump handle, and paq on my top rail. Ran Blackhawk shell carrier's. We ran them different then other units. This was 08-09 Iraq.