@@omarcomming722 Hard pass. Any system has upsides and downsides. Make some friends and get the system working for you. Any system that plays towards people who are more likeable is ideal.
@@omarcomming722 You do realize there's guilds where your value is entirely performance based? These things exist and directly benefit you if you want it. Any argument against group loot is just an argument to find the group whos values line up with your expectations. You can still straight pug or even go into more casual groups that are less organised and have no pressure to trade whatever they win. Personal loot was purely a limitation for more organised settings and an active detriment to the those settings.
GDKP as a concept is absolutely great... as long as there are not milions of botted gold floating around on 3rd party RMT sites. The inability of Blizz to solve the bot situation made the GDKP primary incentive for people to bot even harder.
i disagree, i was a victim of loot counciling. I won the roll but then our RL believe that item is BiS for affliction warlock. That warlock dps really sucks. Losed the roll. Imagine you only have 52 chances a year on that item, then you have 100 rolls to beat? Useless people winning items, then eventually, quit the guild.
The mention of original DKP from EQ (EverQuest) is the real VIP info. I remember when they first implemented that into raids to make raiding "fair" for those who don't get loot. The raiders can save their "points" earned from boss kills to bid on items they need when one actually drops. That's how the original system worked.
In Everquest golden age and Vanilla WoW these "merchant raiders" were jokes among the community who weren't invited to raid guilds. People made fun of them in town endlessly. GDKP is still a joke.
An example of GDKP raiding vs Guild Raiding from a personal POV in WotLK Clasic: - My Main is part of my TBC guilds Wrath roster. We clear 10m and 25m weekly. Insufficient players in guilds for splits or alts run. - I have 2 alts, both of which I want to raid, but no guild raids to utilize. - I run my alts in GDKPs on off days. - End result? Spending 80k + on gear, having 2 alts who are MORE geared then my MAIN that raids in guild. - And it's not like I went broke or anything, if fact I now have 20k more gold then I did when starting wrath. PRO TIP: Find yourself a dedicated GDKP group to run weekly. You might need to spend some gold to get your foot in, but its a return on investment cause as you gear level rises, your power level rises, and then you find yourself not spending any gold on gear cause the item you wanted didnt drop. This is presuming your not doing this blindly and vet the groups you run with + ACTUALLY have a grasp of your class/spec where you can eventually become a carry and arent brain dead.
As someone who always played wow sporadicly, GDKP gave me a way to actually enjoy end game gear and big numbers I wanted but never had time to commit to a guild. So I don’t mind them.
I remember doing Sunwell runs back in BC that went just like this. We'd have a large raid and clear up to the first boss usually. At the end of the raid, people would bid on all the Boe things, and after that was done, the rest of us that didn't get loot got an equal share of the gold spent to buy the items. It went very well.
GDKP wouldnt bother me if gold buying wasnt a thing, the idea of a gdkp is really cool if everyone is farming this gold legitimately, but adding gdkp and gold buying together ruins the game for me turns it into a literal korean style p2w mmo.
i think id rather chew on glass then join a gdkp. just the thought of wasting my time in a raid full of people who don't know/care about me, sounds like the worst mmo experience ever. i rather just have shit gear. plus i have to invest gold and give it someone who is 100% scamming me. im glad its your fantasy asmon but every time you talk about your fantasy the more convinced i am i never wanna join a gdkp
GDKP was awesome when we temporarily shifted to it when we had holes in our raid on raid night. It was a great incentive for pugs to join. We even gave a little bonus if it they were a healer and were actually decent.
GDKP in ICC was my favorite part of Wrath. By the end of the expac, all of my alts were BiS and able to carry 4 runs per week for massive amounts of gold.
Im a big fan of a priority system for pugs, run it through a website and everyone gets 3-5 picks, if an item drops and you have the highest prio set for it and nobody else has that item chosen = instantly yours, if you have a tie for the set prio those people roll for it, that way you can set your own goal on which item is worth the most to you and even put a strategic twist on it with higher prio winning over lower prio
Germans used it since classic. Its called "Team Sahne Prio" - its a Website where you can easily chose your prio. People never leave, its fair for everyone and it worked since classic vanilla. Still in use today in wotlk.
@@Vihara2 i only raid pugs and since classic and i can count the times someone left because of their prio not dropping on one hand. Youre locked anyway, so you might as well just finish it. But germans are different bro. They are weird and old school. Many still using Teamspeak instead of discord.
GDKPs are only a threat for people who pug really. Personally I went in many to pay some epic flying in TBC, it was the most efficient and less boring gold farm. The issue with GDKPs though is the botting and gold selling that comes from it inflates the price of items because some people clearly have way more gold than others in the game. It's funny though that people in pugs always "have to go" or d/c, but in GDKPs I have yet to see somebody not there the full run. Pro tip, be a holy paladin or resto shaman, nobody needs your gear, you'll get it for minimum bid and get out of the raid with profit.
I did gdkp since vanilla. I think gdkp within guild is actually quite healthy. But when gdkp becomes prevalent, the huge downside is that, it becomes really difficult form new/returning players to catch up without RMT.
I’m not against GDKP and I love the idea of stealing gold from the gold buyers but to not acknowledge that GDKP literally exists to cater to gold buyers is intellectually dishonest. Every single buyer I have talked to in GDKP is real money trading and I highly doubt GDKP would be as popular without gold buyers
Let's face it, all the "benefits" of the GDKP stated can only be true if botting and gold services outside of the game are a thing and that's the real issue as to why GDKP is bad and I'm against it. Literally one cannot exist without the other because the reason you get to split a substantial and worthwhile amount of gold at the end of the raid is because items have been sold for CRAZY amounts of gold, amounts that would be unachievable by actual natural gameplay. So if you support and like GDKP you are supporting botting and the gold market, and trying to separate one from the other to create some sort of false ethical line for yourself just makes you look either dumb or a hypocrite.
But... Naxx is SO easy people don't want to invite Carries because they don't increase the pot and aren't really needed. Ulduar will see a weird split within the gdkp crowd.
I’m a huge fan of GDKP / I don’t have the time I used to to grind out runs. GDKP allows me to get the gear I need in 2-3weeks of runs and then grind as needed for the final BIS pieces
If you belong to a guild and players were invited based off of performance, parses etc then everyone should be on a same level so a loot council would probably be a good idea. If you belong to a casual guild that invite casual friendly players and have a broad spectrum of players that use a roll for loot system I think they should keep that same system. Changing to a loot council right before Uld or ToC is probably going to create issues in a guild. Each system is good for a certain style of guild.
@@Babyjoker2222 On the other hand it also ensures your guild wont die tho. If you only give gear to high achievers, why would the others even show up? Even when everyone is a hardcore gamernerd, some people will perform better than others, so eventho you invest A LOT of time, you might still get treated like shit and get no loot. For not to talk about all the loot drama from officers who gives gear to friends over others.
@@Ascasc1980 nah it just weeds out the underachievers, like now my guild is hard stuck on H Dathea due to lack of dps n they’re all 390+ barely doing 30K dps while the ones that are carrying are low to mid 40s n the over achievers are high 40s n low 50s.
@@Ascasc1980 theres under n over achievers with everything damn. All because its a game doesn’t make it irrelevant. This is time, energy, n financial investment. Its more than just a game. Hell there is ppl playing games making more than your next three generations combined. Stop it fam
GDKP is great. Just get 10-15 guildies, put a big bunch of performance based incentives etc. in to make the calculations really complex and then tell all the guildies to bid for stuff they don't need to jack up the prices. Ez money. (Also in classic now, Blizz refuses to do anything about trade disputes so you don't even need to pay people their cuts lol)
My first and only experience with GDKP was carrying in ICC. The raid leader ninja logged and kept all of the gold. I reported him but doubt anything ever happened to him.
Love asmon but yeah when you have time on your side its easy to say 'get best gear then carry people for gold', most normal player can't even get enough gold to even get min bid on items. That said yeah, doing is is your own choice.
big thing about gold selling/RMT is that basically any friend group that is competitive will be selling/buying gold from each other amongst themselves, because not every class can farm the same rate and will have different gear level and will sometimes play more sometimes play less it just ends up like that. so I feel like buying it from farmers is ok. as long as we actively work against bots its ok.
I am more on the side of WillE in this case. Asmon has his memories of ninja looking and scamming people. but just like in the video. People are motivated by different things. I do wish that blizzard would do more about bots and RMT to keep GDKP more reasonable but oh well. we shall see how things work out.
Selling gear essentially creates the problem of " bad performing players" who have good gear but are unable to contribute to raids. Boost system does exactly that. The scores and rating can also be bought if you are rich enough, so only way to eventually find out if the person in your group is even carrying their weight is to see them in action. I know money is always a strong factor in games, but when ppl complain about PtW mechanics then go and basically do the same in WoW- just baffles me. Ask yourself- why do you play this game? If you going to buy your way through, why even play? You pay monthly sub or gold to pay more gold to have gear you suck in? Show off the lack of skills? Not sure the reasoning behind it all.
GDKPs, loot councils etc all make me glad that Personal Loot, for all its flaws, exists. Players have proven time again that they'll only ever use control over loot to exploit. Whether for gold, contrived pyramid schemes or arbitrarily denying players loot access despite their participation to ninja loot for self or friends.
I regularly had over 100k gold at any time in Classic WOW which I farmed legitimately. I did however spend money to achieve this though. On OCE, there was a dead server called Felstriker and I levelled a 60 mage there that would farm Plaguebloom and Black Lotus uncontested because the server was pretty dead. I'd fill up a level 10 Paladin (which I could level in 1 hour) with full 14/16 slot bags filled with Mongoose Potions and Black Lotus' and transfer him to Arugal/Yojamba. I'd easily make 40k+ gold per transfer doing this. I'd use the gold in GDKP's and/or sell it to my guild mates (gold was $20/1k at the time) I was very surprised that only 1 other person did this on Felstriker.
We need iron man mode from RuneScape where it's only items you earned yourself, no AH. Maybe these servers can have raiding where dungeon loot is simply rolled and only classes that can benefit from the gear are eligible. It auto-rolls and distributes, no trading amongst yourselves. You get what you get distributed by the game. Everything is earned, no GDKP either. I would play on the iron man server realms.
From my knowledge I'm pretty sure only guild to do zero lights in the dark prenerf was a Chinese guild called STARS and they had it revoked for glitching or bugging adds on phase 3 with a hunter. Could be wrong about this it's been over a decade now lol
I dont really care about GDKP's even though I dont really like em, if people enjoy it then badass keep it. I dont need to like the same thing as another player of the same game, theres a lot to enjoy in the game for different players. The problem I DO have with it is that it essentially forced WOW's design direction into a semi-permanent shift into dungeon and raid only content, up to and until literally this expansion (dragonflight) where most all of the design was put toward raid content and dungeon groups at the detriment of the rest of the WOW experience either through direct plan (like the limited talents part for easier tuning, removing pvp items because iLevel, etc) or design negligence. Unfortunate that it affected the game in such a way to the point were only now getting out of its muck and grime, but not necessarily the GDKP's fault even though it was a cog in the machine that brought WoW to where it is and what players hated about modern wow
Doing it for gold was totally fine, I have no problems with it. The main problem is the exploiting for the gold, like buying gold, botting for gold or anything else.
So basically you can't have a classic MMORPG in modern times, because people. . . i disagree that people being shady is a good thing. I think that's just cope dude. It's not a good thing, least of all to newbies, and these people exist by your own admission. As far as i'm concerned the launch of classic wasn't handled well. They should have gone the EverQuest route with TLP servers (Time locked progression) where the community votes when it's time for the servers to move on to the next expac. This goes on for a few years, then rinse repeat. MOST people would want to get to Wrath and stop.
GDKP's are the only way to reliably keep people in raid after their item doesn't drop. If you're not in a guild on a regular schedule its the only real way to do content.
I leveled other characters. I leveled up professiones (goblin) engineer & jewelcrafter Deathknight (druid) Herb and Alchemist with Alchemist transmutation for crafting more gems (not potions) and Minning and skinning Priest. Life was very simple... VERY simple... JUST take your time Just enjoy the questing... Later on... There will be World pvp to take control of a base to enter the raid dungeon that have Single bosses that drop RANDOMISED loot.
I think GDKP is bad because it incentivizes gold buying and therefore makes the game Pay 2 Win. I personally believe it should be a bannable offense for that reason, but sadly Blizzard and a lot of zoomers think Pay 2 Win is completely fine these days.
GDKP back then with legit gold sure but GDKP now where gold sellers are abundant and the only raids happening are GDKPs no thanks, Quit wrath classic for this reason just people caring about GS and how much gold you bought nothing more nothing less, Sure you can say find a guild but even that can become difficuilt when a server such as Gehennas EU is just a gdkpfest, I prefer the whole SR MS>OS raids to GDKP some disagree with me and many get angry towards me when I say that, Classic now is just no longer fun, TBC was good but since SOM came out TBC/Wrath have fallen very toxic and gold orientated, Back to retail, DF is a saviour
Back in vanilla WoW our guild did DKP (Dragon Kill Points) which were earned by showing up to the MC/ BWL raids and doing clearing runs, giving to guild bank/ other guild events. No loot council or rolls because everyone bids their DKP points for gear and the points are kept recorded on the guilds website. Best system if you have a consistent guild 🤟 and if some people already have the loot you can still get it for cheap.
DKP system is the best, i got full BiS in classic wow thx to that Loot system, then in tbc i joined a loot council and got nothing bc my class wast a priority to get loot lol then gquit and GDKP was the way to go
I’m sorry but asmon saying Thoridal is only slightly better than Golden Bow is so triggering. Steady shot doesn’t factor in ammo when calculating damage, just weapon topend. Do the math.
A person named Asmongold who call on people to trade him gold and loot every item he needs from the raids he do is an GDKP enjoyer... Huh, who could of gues that... 😂
not a bad vid till asmons delusional idea that GDKP was self contained and if you didnt like you can just not do them. it's unquestionable that its affects polluted into the entire game, i took advantage of that personally, but dont pretend you could avoid its impact
I did a gdkp in classic aq40 on my warrior and was bidding on something got to like 7000g and then a fucking mage bid 8000g on the item. I guess he was thinking that he was gonna make me pay more get fucked instead.
@@Xulah It's common yeah but there are so many quirks in every game. He just cares about WoW and it's gone through a lot of bad shit recently. If there was any good time to hop in I think it would be now. New xpac with so many DECENT changes. Lots to learn too but you could just make it a tiny hobby no need to give your life away for it.
@@EQOAnostalgia A (VERY) quick google search didn't bring anything up, but like nah dude, I just love watching Asmongold. The only reason I'll watch his WoW videos just because it's Asmon content.
Selling gear for gold in mmos is as old as the mmos themselves. I never thought badly of it. If I can't utilize the gear that drops, there's no point for me to run this content. Selling loot rights gives you another incentive to run group content after you are fully geared.
i think the worst thing to happen in MMOs was equipment binding- bind on equip, bind on pickup, etc. In MMOs everything should be tradeable, more over the BEST gear should be crafted gear (have those top tier raid bosses drop top tier mats instead of direct equipment).
We did all sorts of shenanigans during OG wotlk. We were doing GDKP during SWP (TBC). Trash before first boss dropped all sorts of epic patterns and gems. That is where I first became wealthy, as a trash player, no gold, no gear.
I remember those Sunwell trash runs lol. Did that shit for hours somedays. I was partly responsible for running the B-team raids and getting gear (a-team were competitive, b-team more casual, basically friends and alts of guildies). After a couple bad runs on gruul and mags, I said "screw it, everyone go to sunwell. We're farming trash today."
@@DrDipsh1t good times! Gorgonnash Horde Us had a strong enough population to pug SWP trash runs all day. There was mutual incentive to bring in anyone because that could be a bigger pie for everyone.
@@boburanus69 it was also an opportunity for us to make connections with other people. We poached a few good members from casual guilds, found some good free agent people, and made some side money with professions (at that point I had every available enchantment learned and max enchant level so I'd befriend people to sell enchants as I wasn't one of those people who just logged in every week to raid, I was on 10hrs a day every day lol).
i agree. GDKP is probably the fairest and best loot system. I don't understand the hate. I don't buy gold. I play the game a lot and i have learned how to make money. I ran a gdkp because i had so much gold and nothing to spend it on. I was getting sick of losing rolls to bad players that barely played and i felt like i was carrying them in our guild. They don't enchant, don't even make an effort to get pre raid bis. Yet they were winning roles and worse, they were given loot because " it was a bigger upgrade for them". Also a lot of players raid log now. So GDKP rewards the players that actually play the game and earn gold. time is money and gdkp rewards the most dedicated players.
"Rewards the players that actually play the game and earn gold". Except a large amount of players buys gold > get boosted in Halls of Stone > buys gear in gdkp's.
@@BalanceTycon for sure. Cheating is cheating. I am sure if we knew that people used cheats to hack the system and always get a high roll number then we would say that rolling isn't fair and should't be used. But if they could prevent gold buying then i think it is the best system. I also see a lot. and I mean A LOT of players that are just lazy. they barely have gold for repairs. they can't afford to buy the best enchant. they just pop in on raid night. And i am setting on 70k gold easily after the first month of wrath from playing and selling stuff. and like i said, the Raid leader gives these players gear because "its a bigger upgrade for them". that isn't really a good system either.
I'm all for options, but so long as GDKP directly incentivizes gold buying... I can't really support it. I'd also say that the entire system pretty much encourages the exact same behavior that you see in whales. Dunno... something feels a bit duplicitous about being perfectly fine with a GDKP (that you benefit from), but being completely anti-whales (which the company benefits from). Sure you can practice mental gymnastics if you want, but to me the behavior that you're encouraging seems pretty darn similar to me.
32:00 This is how I feel when Asmon malds about store mounts, wow tokens, personal loot. Store mounts/wow tokens are great, it's why the game is still even breathing. And honestly get the f over it lol.
Idk how it is now since I haven't played since TBC SSC and TK, but in vanilla classic, gdkp was nice because then I got enough to pay for consumes for my main raid from helping carrying other raids. Bots and gold buying inflated the market so much that gdkp allowed regular players to survive since it puts some of the gold back in the hands of regular players. I would've quit way earlier otherwise because I simply couldn't put in the time gold farming as a priest to keep raiding
When guild stop raiding I stopped playing. GDKP was not worth my time. There was no satisfaction in being dragged along in content and no progression guilds that wanted to learn. So why play?
OFC the most popular person in the raid loves the idea of friend council loot.
Gear your friends first and then give them the bigger cut of the gold cause they are now doing moar damage. Win/win 🤣
Justice for grenades
@Z sometimes they invite you back
@@omarcomming722 Hard pass. Any system has upsides and downsides. Make some friends and get the system working for you. Any system that plays towards people who are more likeable is ideal.
@@omarcomming722 You do realize there's guilds where your value is entirely performance based? These things exist and directly benefit you if you want it. Any argument against group loot is just an argument to find the group whos values line up with your expectations. You can still straight pug or even go into more casual groups that are less organised and have no pressure to trade whatever they win. Personal loot was purely a limitation for more organised settings and an active detriment to the those settings.
GDKP as a concept is absolutely great... as long as there are not milions of botted gold floating around on 3rd party RMT sites. The inability of Blizz to solve the bot situation made the GDKP primary incentive for people to bot even harder.
people acting like 14 yo lol kids from 2012 in gdkp
@@Vihara2 buying gold or bots are not common? Nvm doesn't matter. Both are very common.
@@Vihara2 Buying gold is extremely common.
@@Vihara2 Youd guesstimate wrong
if we spit at people that buy boost on retail we should spit at people that buy gear in gdkp
No cause GDKP benefits Asmongler, as he never has to farm for the gold he has, he just needs to login and empty his mailbox.
Asmongold pays his raid team in "Exposure"
i disagree, i was a victim of loot counciling. I won the roll but then our RL believe that item is BiS for affliction warlock. That warlock dps really sucks. Losed the roll. Imagine you only have 52 chances a year on that item, then you have 100 rolls to beat? Useless people winning items, then eventually, quit the guild.
The mention of original DKP from EQ (EverQuest) is the real VIP info. I remember when they first implemented that into raids to make raiding "fair" for those who don't get loot. The raiders can save their "points" earned from boss kills to bid on items they need when one actually drops. That's how the original system worked.
Problem with dkp is new guild members don’t get shit
In Everquest golden age and Vanilla WoW these "merchant raiders" were jokes among the community who weren't invited to raid guilds. People made fun of them in town endlessly. GDKP is still a joke.
I spent my real life time raiding foe that epic and won the roll..and now I gotta put more of my time farming gold foe it too? Stupid idea honestly.
nothing like seeing a character with mostly greens and then one or two really rare purples
An example of GDKP raiding vs Guild Raiding from a personal POV in WotLK Clasic:
- My Main is part of my TBC guilds Wrath roster. We clear 10m and 25m weekly. Insufficient players in guilds for splits or alts run.
- I have 2 alts, both of which I want to raid, but no guild raids to utilize.
- I run my alts in GDKPs on off days.
- End result? Spending 80k + on gear, having 2 alts who are MORE geared then my MAIN that raids in guild.
- And it's not like I went broke or anything, if fact I now have 20k more gold then I did when starting wrath.
PRO TIP: Find yourself a dedicated GDKP group to run weekly. You might need to spend some gold to get your foot in, but its a return on investment cause as you gear level rises, your power level rises, and then you find yourself not spending any gold on gear cause the item you wanted didnt drop. This is presuming your not doing this blindly and vet the groups you run with + ACTUALLY have a grasp of your class/spec where you can eventually become a carry and arent brain dead.
we have our main raids with loot council but run GDKPs with alts and filled with pugs best of both worlds
"if you don't like it just don't do it"
I mean that is what people did. They quit the entire game. Nobody is telling others not to do GDKPs.
As someone who always played wow sporadicly, GDKP gave me a way to actually enjoy end game gear and big numbers I wanted but never had time to commit to a guild. So I don’t mind them.
I remember doing Sunwell runs back in BC that went just like this. We'd have a large raid and clear up to the first boss usually. At the end of the raid, people would bid on all the Boe things, and after that was done, the rest of us that didn't get loot got an equal share of the gold spent to buy the items. It went very well.
GDKP wouldnt bother me if gold buying wasnt a thing, the idea of a gdkp is really cool if everyone is farming this gold legitimately, but adding gdkp and gold buying together ruins the game for me turns it into a literal korean style p2w mmo.
i think id rather chew on glass then join a gdkp. just the thought of wasting my time in a raid full of people who don't know/care about me, sounds like the worst mmo experience ever. i rather just have shit gear. plus i have to invest gold and give it someone who is 100% scamming me. im glad its your fantasy asmon but every time you talk about your fantasy the more convinced i am i never wanna join a gdkp
GDKP was awesome when we temporarily shifted to it when we had holes in our raid on raid night. It was a great incentive for pugs to join. We even gave a little bonus if it they were a healer and were actually decent.
GDKP in ICC was my favorite part of Wrath. By the end of the expac, all of my alts were BiS and able to carry 4 runs per week for massive amounts of gold.
Im a big fan of a priority system for pugs, run it through a website and everyone gets 3-5 picks, if an item drops and you have the highest prio set for it and nobody else has that item chosen = instantly yours, if you have a tie for the set prio those people roll for it, that way you can set your own goal on which item is worth the most to you and even put a strategic twist on it with higher prio winning over lower prio
Germans used it since classic. Its called "Team Sahne Prio" - its a Website where you can easily chose your prio.
People never leave, its fair for everyone and it worked since classic vanilla. Still in use today in wotlk.
@@capitaldcolon1795 >Germans
Last time Germans organised things they ruined Europe, not gonna take that chance
@@Vihara2 i only raid pugs and since classic and i can count the times someone left because of their prio not dropping on one hand.
Youre locked anyway, so you might as well just finish it.
But germans are different bro. They are weird and old school. Many still using Teamspeak instead of discord.
GDKPs are only a threat for people who pug really. Personally I went in many to pay some epic flying in TBC, it was the most efficient and less boring gold farm. The issue with GDKPs though is the botting and gold selling that comes from it inflates the price of items because some people clearly have way more gold than others in the game. It's funny though that people in pugs always "have to go" or d/c, but in GDKPs I have yet to see somebody not there the full run. Pro tip, be a holy paladin or resto shaman, nobody needs your gear, you'll get it for minimum bid and get out of the raid with profit.
Our guild hosted gdkp nax 25 runs have cleared upwards of 8k payout per player.
I did gdkp since vanilla.
I think gdkp within guild is actually quite healthy.
But when gdkp becomes prevalent, the huge downside is that, it becomes really difficult form new/returning players to catch up without RMT.
What is rmt
I’m not against GDKP and I love the idea of stealing gold from the gold buyers but to not acknowledge that GDKP literally exists to cater to gold buyers is intellectually dishonest. Every single buyer I have talked to in GDKP is real money trading and I highly doubt GDKP would be as popular without gold buyers
GDKP totally ruined TBC pug life for me.
Let's face it, all the "benefits" of the GDKP stated can only be true if botting and gold services outside of the game are a thing and that's the real issue as to why GDKP is bad and I'm against it. Literally one cannot exist without the other because the reason you get to split a substantial and worthwhile amount of gold at the end of the raid is because items have been sold for CRAZY amounts of gold, amounts that would be unachievable by actual natural gameplay. So if you support and like GDKP you are supporting botting and the gold market, and trying to separate one from the other to create some sort of false ethical line for yourself just makes you look either dumb or a hypocrite.
But... Naxx is SO easy people don't want to invite Carries because they don't increase the pot and aren't really needed. Ulduar will see a weird split within the gdkp crowd.
I’m a huge fan of GDKP / I don’t have the time I used to to grind out runs. GDKP allows me to get the gear I need in 2-3weeks of runs and then grind as needed for the final BIS pieces
in oldskool vanilla it was a big thing to let people pay for the raidspot instead of the loot itself
I wonder if gdkp will die down when the raid content can't be facerolled while carrying half the raid
If you belong to a guild and players were invited based off of performance, parses etc then everyone should be on a same level so a loot council would probably be a good idea. If you belong to a casual guild that invite casual friendly players and have a broad spectrum of players that use a roll for loot system I think they should keep that same system. Changing to a loot council right before Uld or ToC is probably going to create issues in a guild. Each system is good for a certain style of guild.
yea that rewards all the low dps players with all the gear because they magically roll high.
@@Babyjoker2222 On the other hand it also ensures your guild wont die tho. If you only give gear to high achievers, why would the others even show up?
Even when everyone is a hardcore gamernerd, some people will perform better than others, so eventho you invest A LOT of time, you might still get treated like shit and get no loot. For not to talk about all the loot drama from officers who gives gear to friends over others.
@@Ascasc1980 nah it just weeds out the underachievers, like now my guild is hard stuck on H Dathea due to lack of dps n they’re all 390+ barely doing 30K dps while the ones that are carrying are low to mid 40s n the over achievers are high 40s n low 50s.
@@Babyjoker2222 Ahhh yes, over- and underachievers in a GAME. Goddamn I'm glad I don't really give a fuck how a video game goes.
@@Ascasc1980 theres under n over achievers with everything damn. All because its a game doesn’t make it irrelevant. This is time, energy, n financial investment. Its more than just a game.
Hell there is ppl playing games making more than your next three generations combined. Stop it fam
GDKP is great. Just get 10-15 guildies, put a big bunch of performance based incentives etc. in to make the calculations really complex and then tell all the guildies to bid for stuff they don't need to jack up the prices. Ez money. (Also in classic now, Blizz refuses to do anything about trade disputes so you don't even need to pay people their cuts lol)
My first and only experience with GDKP was carrying in ICC. The raid leader ninja logged and kept all of the gold. I reported him but doubt anything ever happened to him.
looking forward to the development of gdkp in combination with true hard mode encounters. Way less groups and way higher prices.
Love asmon but yeah when you have time on your side its easy to say 'get best gear then carry people for gold', most normal player can't even get enough gold to even get min bid on items. That said yeah, doing is is your own choice.
Blizz mishandled classic. Should have done TLP and made sure this kind of backhanded bs didn't happen.
big thing about gold selling/RMT is that basically any friend group that is competitive will be selling/buying gold from each other amongst themselves, because not every class can farm the same rate and will have different gear level and will sometimes play more sometimes play less it just ends up like that. so I feel like buying it from farmers is ok. as long as we actively work against bots its ok.
I am more on the side of WillE in this case. Asmon has his memories of ninja looking and scamming people. but just like in the video. People are motivated by different things. I do wish that blizzard would do more about bots and RMT to keep GDKP more reasonable but oh well. we shall see how things work out.
gdkp is fine but when old bob says he doesnt want to farm gold because he can make $30 an hour and swipe then you know your game has a problem
GDKP's would be better imo if heroic runs were locked to guilds, and guild members need friendly rep
Selling gear essentially creates the problem of " bad performing players" who have good gear but are unable to contribute to raids. Boost system does exactly that. The scores and rating can also be bought if you are rich enough, so only way to eventually find out if the person in your group is even carrying their weight is to see them in action. I know money is always a strong factor in games, but when ppl complain about PtW mechanics then go and basically do the same in WoW- just baffles me. Ask yourself- why do you play this game? If you going to buy your way through, why even play? You pay monthly sub or gold to pay more gold to have gear you suck in? Show off the lack of skills? Not sure the reasoning behind it all.
ehrm, we did gdkps back in vanilla, some in MC and especially BWL gdkp was really common
GDKPs, loot councils etc all make me glad that Personal Loot, for all its flaws, exists.
Players have proven time again that they'll only ever use control over loot to exploit. Whether for gold, contrived pyramid schemes or arbitrarily denying players loot access despite their participation to ninja loot for self or friends.
i cant wait for Deathbringers Will drama unfolding again, and its gdkp prices hitting goldcap
I regularly had over 100k gold at any time in Classic WOW which I farmed legitimately. I did however spend money to achieve this though. On OCE, there was a dead server called Felstriker and I levelled a 60 mage there that would farm Plaguebloom and Black Lotus uncontested because the server was pretty dead. I'd fill up a level 10 Paladin (which I could level in 1 hour) with full 14/16 slot bags filled with Mongoose Potions and Black Lotus' and transfer him to Arugal/Yojamba. I'd easily make 40k+ gold per transfer doing this.
I'd use the gold in GDKP's and/or sell it to my guild mates (gold was $20/1k at the time)
I was very surprised that only 1 other person did this on Felstriker.
I did this, killing the indo hunters trying to farm lotus was so much fun, used to lock down silithus and burning steppes for days.
We need iron man mode from RuneScape where it's only items you earned yourself, no AH. Maybe these servers can have raiding where dungeon loot is simply rolled and only classes that can benefit from the gear are eligible. It auto-rolls and distributes, no trading amongst yourselves. You get what you get distributed by the game. Everything is earned, no GDKP either. I would play on the iron man server realms.
This also means you have to mine rocks yourself, collect your own mats for professions. Just entirely self sufficient gameplay.
From my knowledge I'm pretty sure only guild to do zero lights in the dark prenerf was a Chinese guild called STARS and they had it revoked for glitching or bugging adds on phase 3 with a hunter. Could be wrong about this it's been over a decade now lol
I dont really care about GDKP's even though I dont really like em, if people enjoy it then badass keep it. I dont need to like the same thing as another player of the same game, theres a lot to enjoy in the game for different players.
The problem I DO have with it is that it essentially forced WOW's design direction into a semi-permanent shift into dungeon and raid only content, up to and until literally this expansion (dragonflight) where most all of the design was put toward raid content and dungeon groups at the detriment of the rest of the WOW experience either through direct plan (like the limited talents part for easier tuning, removing pvp items because iLevel, etc) or design negligence.
Unfortunate that it affected the game in such a way to the point were only now getting out of its muck and grime, but not necessarily the GDKP's fault even though it was a cog in the machine that brought WoW to where it is and what players hated about modern wow
Doing it for gold was totally fine, I have no problems with it. The main problem is the exploiting for the gold, like buying gold, botting for gold or anything else.
No GDKPs but ppl were already selling items in early Vanilla
Dragonstrike wasn’t cheap either for a bc sink
So basically you can't have a classic MMORPG in modern times, because people. . . i disagree that people being shady is a good thing. I think that's just cope dude. It's not a good thing, least of all to newbies, and these people exist by your own admission.
As far as i'm concerned the launch of classic wasn't handled well. They should have gone the EverQuest route with TLP servers (Time locked progression) where the community votes when it's time for the servers to move on to the next expac. This goes on for a few years, then rinse repeat. MOST people would want to get to Wrath and stop.
3:38 Action house for the item with gold and gold divided among the players? Just like Lost Ark does?
The thing is you can get Naxx gear from heroic+ dungeons so people will have decent gear they will not be trashos, mybe.
First Thori'dal went to Kungen (Warrior MT for Nihilum)
Gold for items… in original… good times.
And duel boxing at the same time.
We had GDKP runs in vanilla for BWL on Darkspear.
Remind me again why i dont play wow. The loot system is so toxic
GDKP's are the only way to reliably keep people in raid after their item doesn't drop. If you're not in a guild on a regular schedule its the only real way to do content.
If blizzard was to fix GDKP they would need to fix the loot system to be better than pure RNG
I love how i can kinda understand wow videos way more now that i played for a bit lv 43 undead fury warror wotkl classic
I played WoW: Wrath Of The Lich King Years ago... WITH NO GDKP AT ALL...
I continued to DO pugs and dungeons and used tokens to collect gear.
I leveled other characters.
I leveled up professiones
(goblin) engineer & jewelcrafter Deathknight
(druid) Herb and Alchemist with Alchemist transmutation for crafting more gems (not potions)
and Minning and skinning Priest.
Life was very simple... VERY simple... JUST take your time
Just enjoy the questing...
Later on... There will be World pvp to take control of a base to enter the raid dungeon that have Single bosses that drop RANDOMISED loot.
also i dont think banning goldbuyers will be enough anymore the damage has been done there is just too much gold in circulation already
I think GDKP is bad because it incentivizes gold buying and therefore makes the game Pay 2 Win. I personally believe it should be a bannable offense for that reason, but sadly Blizzard and a lot of zoomers think Pay 2 Win is completely fine these days.
Lmao / the breakdown on “buy this buy that buy this etc then you can play the game”
I fucking love it
GDKP back then with legit gold sure but GDKP now where gold sellers are abundant and the only raids happening are GDKPs no thanks, Quit wrath classic for this reason just people caring about GS and how much gold you bought nothing more nothing less, Sure you can say find a guild but even that can become difficuilt when a server such as Gehennas EU is just a gdkpfest, I prefer the whole SR MS>OS raids to GDKP some disagree with me and many get angry towards me when I say that, Classic now is just no longer fun, TBC was good but since SOM came out TBC/Wrath have fallen very toxic and gold orientated, Back to retail, DF is a saviour
I GDKP Naxx 25 because I dont have a dedicated raid team and that is literally the only way I can raid anymore....
Back in vanilla WoW our guild did DKP (Dragon Kill Points) which were earned by showing up to the MC/ BWL raids and doing clearing runs, giving to guild bank/ other guild events. No loot council or rolls because everyone bids their DKP points for gear and the points are kept recorded on the guilds website. Best system if you have a consistent guild 🤟 and if some people already have the loot you can still get it for cheap.
DKP system is the best, i got full BiS in classic wow thx to that Loot system, then in tbc i joined a loot council and got nothing bc my class wast a priority to get loot lol then gquit and GDKP was the way to go
I’m sorry but asmon saying Thoridal is only slightly better than Golden Bow is so triggering. Steady shot doesn’t factor in ammo when calculating damage, just weapon topend. Do the math.
A person named Asmongold who call on people to trade him gold and loot every item he needs from the raids he do is an GDKP enjoyer... Huh, who could of gues that... 😂
The fact chats says yes that the world first Thori'dal was given to a rogue 🤦♂
On the Fresh maladath that it's good to see there isn't a single gdkp I've seen
not a bad vid till asmons delusional idea that GDKP was self contained and if you didnt like you can just not do them.
it's unquestionable that its affects polluted into the entire game, i took advantage of that personally, but dont pretend you could avoid its impact
Last piece - I hate the “no power leveling” crap they put in for instances - just garbage to force people into buying level boosts from blizzard
time = money, big shocker
I did a gdkp in classic aq40 on my warrior and was bidding on something got to like 7000g and then a fucking mage bid 8000g on the item. I guess he was thinking that he was gonna make me pay more get fucked instead.
GDKP would be ok IF gold buying and botting was banned. As gold buying is running rampant, it's a nono.
GDKPs were happening back in EQ
people from private servers will speed run ulduar like its a normal 5 man dungeon they played in wotlk for years there with boosted difficulty servers
So?
right when i finish watching one new video, you guys have already uploaded another. absolutely legendary
Yo wtf is wrong with me. I don't even play WoW, I've only ever played the trial... Yet I watch every single WoW video from Asmongold...
You're only a few clicks away from becoming one of us 👺
@@Kilroy098 every time I think about it asmon releases a video of him complaining about wow
@@Xulah It's common yeah but there are so many quirks in every game. He just cares about WoW and it's gone through a lot of bad shit recently. If there was any good time to hop in I think it would be now. New xpac with so many DECENT changes. Lots to learn too but you could just make it a tiny hobby no need to give your life away for it.
Spectator generation... look it up.
@@EQOAnostalgia A (VERY) quick google search didn't bring anything up, but like nah dude, I just love watching Asmongold. The only reason I'll watch his WoW videos just because it's Asmon content.
Selling gear for gold in mmos is as old as the mmos themselves. I never thought badly of it. If I can't utilize the gear that drops, there's no point for me to run this content. Selling loot rights gives you another incentive to run group content after you are fully geared.
i think the worst thing to happen in MMOs was equipment binding- bind on equip, bind on pickup, etc. In MMOs everything should be tradeable, more over the BEST gear should be crafted gear (have those top tier raid bosses drop top tier mats instead of direct equipment).
We did all sorts of shenanigans during OG wotlk. We were doing GDKP during SWP (TBC). Trash before first boss dropped all sorts of epic patterns and gems. That is where I first became wealthy, as a trash player, no gold, no gear.
I remember those Sunwell trash runs lol. Did that shit for hours somedays. I was partly responsible for running the B-team raids and getting gear (a-team were competitive, b-team more casual, basically friends and alts of guildies). After a couple bad runs on gruul and mags, I said "screw it, everyone go to sunwell. We're farming trash today."
@@DrDipsh1t good times! Gorgonnash Horde Us had a strong enough population to pug SWP trash runs all day. There was mutual incentive to bring in anyone because that could be a bigger pie for everyone.
@@boburanus69 it was also an opportunity for us to make connections with other people. We poached a few good members from casual guilds, found some good free agent people, and made some side money with professions (at that point I had every available enchantment learned and max enchant level so I'd befriend people to sell enchants as I wasn't one of those people who just logged in every week to raid, I was on 10hrs a day every day lol).
i agree. GDKP is probably the fairest and best loot system. I don't understand the hate. I don't buy gold. I play the game a lot and i have learned how to make money. I ran a gdkp because i had so much gold and nothing to spend it on. I was getting sick of losing rolls to bad players that barely played and i felt like i was carrying them in our guild. They don't enchant, don't even make an effort to get pre raid bis. Yet they were winning roles and worse, they were given loot because " it was a bigger upgrade for them". Also a lot of players raid log now. So GDKP rewards the players that actually play the game and earn gold. time is money and gdkp rewards the most dedicated players.
"Rewards the players that actually play the game and earn gold". Except a large amount of players buys gold > get boosted in Halls of Stone > buys gear in gdkp's.
@@BalanceTycon for sure. Cheating is cheating. I am sure if we knew that people used cheats to hack the system and always get a high roll number then we would say that rolling isn't fair and should't be used. But if they could prevent gold buying then i think it is the best system. I also see a lot. and I mean A LOT of players that are just lazy. they barely have gold for repairs. they can't afford to buy the best enchant. they just pop in on raid night. And i am setting on 70k gold easily after the first month of wrath from playing and selling stuff. and like i said, the Raid leader gives these players gear because "its a bigger upgrade for them". that isn't really a good system either.
What you just said is a picture perfect way to gut a community and kill any buzz from newcomers lol.
I love GDKP in mmo's. Getting paid at the end of a raid feels good, or when I finally have the gold I can secure something.
I'm all for options, but so long as GDKP directly incentivizes gold buying... I can't really support it.
I'd also say that the entire system pretty much encourages the exact same behavior that you see in whales. Dunno... something feels a bit duplicitous about being perfectly fine with a GDKP (that you benefit from), but being completely anti-whales (which the company benefits from). Sure you can practice mental gymnastics if you want, but to me the behavior that you're encouraging seems pretty darn similar to me.
2:01 Taking after Artisan Builds much? their former staff and their boss mentality :D
If you win the roll on a item(PC) and if your not trying (low follower amount), You lose the roll (redraw)
I love bots, I love cheap gold. No way I would play this game if I had to pick flowers for fucking hours on end.
tshhh
The question is how much G2G changes the Gold buying
32:00 This is how I feel when Asmon malds about store mounts, wow tokens, personal loot. Store mounts/wow tokens are great, it's why the game is still even breathing. And honestly get the f over it lol.
I would try Wotlk if it wasn't for RMT an d GDKP, it's way to similar to how Chinese servers are, it's bad.
Id love to see a world where gold buying/botting is completely gone, what the bids will be for these items lol
i agree with gdkps being good
I just raid the raids with PUG's and we roll on the items we want. Thats it.
Duud i passed out i have to rewatch it now again.
Asmon: i like loot council
- more like i like to ninja everything i want
And then they just called me bald 🤣
Idk how it is now since I haven't played since TBC SSC and TK, but in vanilla classic, gdkp was nice because then I got enough to pay for consumes for my main raid from helping carrying other raids. Bots and gold buying inflated the market so much that gdkp allowed regular players to survive since it puts some of the gold back in the hands of regular players. I would've quit way earlier otherwise because I simply couldn't put in the time gold farming as a priest to keep raiding
I don't play classic cuz of the gear drama
GDKP's are the equivalent of the evolution of capitalism in society
Stun seed read backwards
When guild stop raiding I stopped playing. GDKP was not worth my time. There was no satisfaction in being dragged along in content and no progression guilds that wanted to learn. So why play?
My friends older brother dude was decked in naxx gear when it was fresh he would GDKP us lol and I loved it got tons of great shit for cheap