Browning A5 Friction Ring Setup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- The annual question: How does an A5 friction ring setup work?
Remember, what we show here is what you need to go learn, not a tutorial. If you do not posses the skills to perform at this level, do NOT attempt. Support on Patreon: / anvil
The two things a gunsmith can count on are fixing Marlin 60s and cracked forearms on Browning A-5s. Excellent video, as always.
Sounds like you have seen this a time or two as well. Don't forget the dicked up slots on the fasteners on the A5.
my Remington mod 11 has a crack going down the wrist and a forend, and one of the back screws is messed up, I love the thing but she’s a bit fragile (I have not shot it much yet, I did not cause the damage, got it at an estate auction), I wish I could find some synthetic furniture for it, I love wood but I intend to hunt with it till I’m to old to hunt so I’ve gotta make it a lil more durable, thinking about getting it professionally dura blued. I gotta modify a mag tube cap for a sling swivel to, can’t find that aftermarket.
Buzzard 1860, I think Ramline made a synthetic set of stocks that may work. I put a set on an A-5 I had and it took some time to fit the buttstock up. I believe the mag tube caps with swivel studs are available from Uncle Mike’s. It would make sense to take it to a gunsmith for a good cleaning. Every new A-5 I have purchased over time needed a good cleaning and lubing before I did much shooting with them. I hope you enjoy your Remington!
All 4 types of Marlin 60 to boot...
Mark Novak, there’s that too! I have a bin full of spare parts!
Without a doubt, the best source of gunsmithing information on TH-cam.. Thanks for sharing...
Excellent video! Many people dont understand them and get quickly get frustrated with having FTE. This is the best shotgun design ever, 1898 to 1998, a 100 years of John Browning perfection. These guns will shoot 10,000's of rounds with just some grease on the mag tube and a couple drops of oil in various spots. Ive been shooting auto5 for 37 years it's the one gun does that does it all ! If you find your not ejecting in colder weather dont be tempted to use oil it will soak your stocks, instead use a lighter synthetic grease sparingly on the tube.
If they're the best ever and perfect, why are they discontinued?
@@randomidiot8142 Im not sure but I speculate it was expensive to manufacture. Also, I believe it would need a redesign to make it lawsuit proof....the safety doesn't block the firing pin.
My neighbor brought me a bag of parts, a receiver and a barrel. He didn't know what it was or how it went together. I didn't even know what it was until I had fully put it together, as I'd never worked on an A5 before. Needless to say I was laughing at how ingenious the braking system was, as it was pretty obvious immediately that's what was going on. I tried some of my nastiest recoiling no.4 buck from it after having shot my benelli M4 with it quite a bit, and I was stunned that the recoil was softer than my benelli. These guns are something else, I should try to get one sometime.
I have a 1906 Auto-5 and it still runs perfectly. Interesting thing is it has a straight stock and a Chinese police dept property stamp burned into the butt. If only it could talk
The manual that came with my 1957 Light Twelve says not to use grease, only a drop or two of oil, on the mag tube. It recommends removing oil, if using magnum loads, so as to increase friction (reducing felt recoil). The manual says it is safe, and will not harm the gun, to do so.
I really enjoyed the description of how the rings themselves function. Very informative!
I've had an A5 for over 65 years, Light Twelve. I set the rings for high brass, and it has never malfunctioned, even with light, low brass loads. Very dependable. Mine is Belgium made.
Hello, do you know how old the rifle is?
A buddy of mine had an A5 and man.....that gun kicked seriously hard....way harder than anything else using the same ammo. I figure now that he had the brake assembled wrong but back then I didn't know and for sure he didn't know. Next time I run into one it won't pull that again! Thanks for the lesson Mark....always entertaining.
2 kicks if too lite.....
I haven't seen an A5 in a long time. Gramps only bird hunted with his A5.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane 🙂🙂🙃
Like many, I inherited an A5 from dad, that was granddad's first. Granddad got it for an anniversary gift from my awesome grandmother. It is in my care now, and I love shooting it. It is the fancy deluxe version. Not shot much at all. I hear complaints all the time about A5's, but I love it. I see nothing to complain about. It is very reliable, beautiful, accurate, and just a good shotgun.
That has to be one of the best explanations.
I liken it to a compression pipe fitting a nut and ferrel so to speak.
Took me 2 years and 3 boxes of parts to build my first A500. I refer to Brownings Shotgun as one of the most quintessential steps in the development of Automata. It operates in a simple reliable way to perfom a repeated action...robot?
IMHO The Browning A5 is by far and away the very best Automatic Shotgun Rifle I have ever had the extreme pleasure of shooting and learning how to build and dismantle. John Moses Browning is the father of the modern firearm and the A5 will most likely be around for many generations to come.
If you cannot tell the A5 is my very favorite firearm right next to my AK's with the two and a handfull of ammo some targets to vaporize I am virtually guaranteed to exceed grin factors unknown.
Mine is a 1954 and it has been in my family since new. It has harvested a staggering amount of game. Thank you for all of your videos sir.
I’ve had an A5 since 1972 and have never lubed that tube. I’ve always cleaned and put it back together. Thanks for the info. I’ll start lubing it now.
Now, the questions will start...'What do I do with the other stuff?', from the guys with the 3 inch magnum guns! It works exactly the same, you just have two friction rings and multiple cone rings. I get the same question because everyone wants to soften the gun for dove and quail loads early, then punch it up for Magnum buckshot.
BTW, The A5 magnum that was left to me by my late father, will run the lightest loads fine, when set correctly. Correctly also means all the parts in the gun, not some taken out and in your pocket!
Great video and you will probably have to repost this every summer before hunting season!
Take Care and be safe, John
Didn't have a magnum to show, but twice the parts are twice as good!
@@marknovak8255 Yep! Take Care buddy! I wish I knew where to email or msg you and I would send pics or video of a A5 magnum system for you to use.
Great Work friend, John
Wow you fixed my problem with ejection issues. Keep the education coming.
The A5 and all variants are the best semi auto's ever made. If you maintain them like Mark showed they'll run forever problem free.
Brakes are consumables, so how they going to run forever?
@@randomidiot8142 Not like brakes on a car. If you don't know what your talking about better not to talk.
@@skigdividerx4991 oh right, like the synchronizers in a transmission. That wear out..
@@randomidiot8142 Ooookay calm down waterhead.
Just what I needed.
I took granddad's Rem 11 to the range last weekend and let it beat the piss out of me.
Replace the springs on it if you dont have the correct screws for it send it to art gun shop in Missouri if your confident in dissembling it buy a rebuild kit from him will ease up the recoil as well as keep the forearm from cracking
My first gunsmithing experience was with a A5. The bolt block that rolls up into the square in the top of the barrel was wore out. The gunsmiths at the shop ordered the part for $35 and I got to machine it to fit. The curved lip that rolls it I to place when the bolt is closed and the sides were too big and they taught me how to machine them down to fit. My dad bought the Browning at a garage sale in the suburbs of Denver for $2.50 because the guy said it was a wall hanger. That was one good deal. The guy didn't think that the other parts were worth money. It took about 20 minutes to figure out what was wrong. I still have the old bolt block as a reminder. I would never work on someone else's firearm but I do work on my own. I can't tell you how many 1911 triggers I have destroyed before I got it right.
Final Test in my first year of Gunsmith School, 1 question, describe the Complete Cycle of Operation of an A5 from the point where the cartridge is ejected to the point the next cartridge is ejected. I was very unpopular, I blew the curve, it would take me a week of studying to attempt that again. A5 is proof that St John was doing drugs, performance enhancing drugs!
But did you pass again???
And honestly, given the time period he was alive, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did cocaine, opium or some other drugs occasionally lol.
Yup, getting asked so much about this, it's smart to just make a video about it and direct people to watch it! Plus it's interesting to me to learn all I can from you and your experience. Much appreciated sir!
Just yesterday I had short stroking issues with my Rem Model 11, despite being set on no friction. The lithium grease worked like a charm. Thanks Mark!
Love the A-5, but my field gun is a Franchi 48 in 20 gauge. A lot lighter than my all steel A-5 Magnum. Coolest action ever. Going deer hunting with a Remington 81 this year too.
Such a elegantly simple system.
my hell Browning was truly a freaking Genius. so beautifully simplistic
When I was a kid, only the Townies with more money than sense got those expensive semi automatic guns. Only local who got one loaded all rifled slugs for deer season. He got buck fever so bad he did a mag dump first buck he saw. His muzzle was pointed skyward and Lord only knows where his rounds went!
Excellent Job explaining that.
Browning was a genius....
A preemptive video. Outstanding! \m/
I've never used grease, just a bit of light oil. Replacing the spring and friction rings periodically is required maintenance as far as I'm concerned. Excessive slamming from worn parts and improper setup is what cracks the forend.
Looks like my 1909 A5 I bought used for $30 dollars in 1991. Restored it looks mint.
Best video i watch on these a-5s i have 2 remingtons with browning barrels. Excellent
Nice simple video! We had our auto 5’s not cycling this early dove season.
Do you have one of the new A5 , because my A5 does not shoot cheap 2 3/4 shells such as challenger shells
I have an early Remington Model 11-48 from 1948. The beveled friction piece is labeled for either light or heavy loads so there's no confusing which way it goes. fjb
I just pulled apart a 1964 Savage 775A with exactly the same action. I learned I need to pull it back apart and align the ring gaps and white lithium the tube. Thanks!
I have a early 1960's sweet sixteen. Inside the forearm there is a diagram on friction ring placement, light loads and heavy loads. Very helpful.
Just something about the old humpback’s that you gotta love! 👍🏻
Great video. I just came across a Franchi 48 AL, which as I understand is a licensed version of the A5. The previous owner had it assembled with the steel governor ring between the receiver and the spring for no braking action, as you said. I've had a bit of trouble finding official information on it, so you've helped me see just how similar the two firearms' recoil rings are when reduced to their parts like this. Not sure if it's a difference specific to the Franchi, but the only manual I've been able to find online (an old 'American Arms, Inc.' publication) INSISTS in big bold warning letters that the magazine tube should never be oiled, and should be wiped dry after cleaning contrary to what you've mentioned on the A5, and what I would have thought should be done.
I love these short videos like this... so much useful information in just a few minutes
Great video as always!! I am always impressed regarding the ideas Mr. Browning came up with, he really was ingenious.
I find using Lithium grease provides a little TOO much lubrication causing the friction rings to lose the ability to brake effectively, causing undue stress on the bolt by slamming it to the rear. It also causes the A5 to kick much harder causing a longer reacquisition of the target. Just a few and I mean a few drops of gun oil works fine once the gun is properly broken in.
Save the lithium grease for the wheel bearings on your boat trailer, and use gun oil on your guns.
You may be using too much. I have experienced none of these issues in the 30+ years of doing it this way. That, however, is why we talk about the double kick, as it DOES injure the equipment, as you mentioned
James - if it spins, oil it. If it slides, grease it. Doesn’t matter if it’s you boat, your gun, or your door knob.
I totally agree, I use maybe 5% of the grease shown in the video, the only time I have to use it is when I shoot trap loads from my 3 Inch Magnum A-5 when I go for birds or deer wipe the grease completely off set the friction rings for the load you are shooting them just a few drops of gun oil does the trick.
Thank you for explaining this to people. I'm so tired of finding A5s beat to death because bubba doesn't know what a friction ring is.
Or never replacing the spring. The one that came out of my Model 11 was banana-shaped...
One guy I know swears the A5 is prone to blowing up randomly and "kicks too hard." Funny how there was a gaggle of 10-14 year old kids breaking clays with my 12 gauge this weekend without a one complaining about recoil...
@@immikeurnot yeah common fuddlore that a5s recoil your tits off. They shoot softer than a normal 12ga if you aren't abusing it.
Clear as mud. And i own many A5's and model 11's.
JMB The man the mormon the legend.
❤ I need to get a5 to my collection!
That was great. Just picked up my first A5. Will be watching this many times
Just picked up my a5 light twelve made in 1964 mint condition for 800 bucks. Covered in engravings
The #1 thing I've seen start arguments about A5's is what lubricant to use on the mag tube for the rings. My grandpa taught me motor oil, but after seeing it here, I started using grease.
EDIT: the gun in question is a 60's FN produced 12 magnum.
One of the best bird guns ever made. (Have three)
They're great for more than shooting birds.
Love my dads old A5 Light 12 Belgium and so did he. I was told I should change the recoil and breech springs as they get weak and it kicks harder
My son as just given one of these by his grandfather. So glad it was you here to explain it’s correct function.
I loved it! What a great engineering idea and great explanation.
I'll try the lithium grease next time I clean my Model 11. A former Browning smith swears a drop of motor oil on the tube (then spin the spring to spread the oil) is the way to go.
I'm a fan of using grease over oil for lubrication on firearms. It stays where you put it...
The oil will work as far as function goes. However, most of the failure forends are jet black from oil, so I have to draw my conclusions
I have never shot an A5. I hope to some day. I would like to own one also. Very interesting action.
That is a fine shotgun....Thanks my friend
FYI, Sir Isaac Newton stated, "To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction" NOT, For every reaction there is an equal and opposite counter reaction. That's similar to a double negative. Also you did not really explain what position the friction ring should be in with regards to light loads vs heavy loads. Or did i just miss it? Just sayin.....hope your not offended. LOL.
The point is that it is a brake. Heavier loads, more brake necessary. Thats it.
That spring is compressed… need a new spring. When new, the friction ring will sit out nearer the threads prior to assembly.
Hey Mark!, I've got a whole collection of A5 Belgium Browning Shotguns for sale!
Thank you, I had no idea but now it all makes sense!
that's beautifully simple
Nice. Very good information that I can use for my Savage 720.
Isn't grease of any kind on the tube overkill ? Light oil works a lot better in any condition. I've seen greased Auto 5 mag tubes freeze up in cold weather hunting. It looked like a pogo stick in slow motion. I loved hunting with mine and was my go to gun for years during pheasant season. Even my dog would get excited when it came out of the safe.
I am so sad that he didnt upload all the videos here but i get it, youtube sucks, demonetization, deleting chanels and so on,... Really nice videos.
Thanks, and please help spread the word
@@marknovak8255 Sure I WIll.
@@marknovak8255 I am not a a gunsmith and i dont own any guns, but i find the videos very relaxing and entertaining.
If y'all think this is silly, just take a Winchester Model 11 apart. Now THAT is a piece of work.
Good video but didn’t show how to adjust for heavy or light loads??
At @3:03 he shows how to do it for light loads. Previously in the video\ (with brass friction ring between the 2 cones) it is being set up for heavy loads.
I have a 16 ga a5 built in 1937. The slide or bolt. Will now go all the to the barrel
Is the A5 the same as a model 11 sportsman? My father in law just gave me his built in 1943. He never shot it and I am having problems with the first shell hanging up after it fires while I have two in the tube. So put two in tube close the bolt to load one from the tube and then add another one to the tube. The first one won't eject after it fires but then the other two fire and eject fine.
Oh thank you sir Browning Auto 5 1983 pretty much new in the box it's a little gritty and I forgot the ring positioning it's been a long time thank you for the schooling
You know I learned to shoot a shotgun on the A5. And don't have a video on it. I'm gon'a fix that this week.
Strong video! It helped me correct my issues on my A5--Thank you. 2 Dumb Ass approved
Would Lubriplate for an M1 Garand be a suitable replacement for lithium grease?
I learned a lot, thanks.
WOW... What a clever set up... Is it a bad idea to grease the top sliding area that telescopes where the breach is? other then any excess later getting on your coat..?
Thanks. Interesting and helpful.
I wish I could get the carrier screws out of my Model 11.
good work
I have a Winchester Model 11- the old Widow Maker...never been brave enough to shoot it. The issue is they tried to bypass Browning's patents and failed.
Well, they succeeded in bypassing the patents. What they failed at was doing so in a practical and ergonomic manner.
Very good.
Hi Mark,
I assembled an A5 just last week using molybdenum grease (Is this bad?only just saw your video!)
Is Lithium grease the best option for the majority of slides, bolts and friction tubes, or do different mechanisms suit different greases/lubes?
And thank you very much for the fantastic videos!
Moly works just fine, but the MESS!
I had to get familiar with all that set up on a Remington Model 11 I had.
Love this. I actually own a '57 fn made 16( not the sweet). The stock was damaged during Harvey, has a little bit of cosmetic rust.... at some point I'm going to re-oil the stock, and try my hand at carding.
It developed the classic a5 worn out rear pin hole in the stock, as a teen i cleaned the hole up and bedded a piece of metal into it to tighten it up. Looking back on it I probably should have drilled it out, either put a wood plug or metal ferrule in, and bedded that with acriglass or similar, but many hundreds of rounds later it has no stock walk.... thinking ain't brok, don't fix it.
Clear explanation
So something else you can do with the friction setting if you want to shoot singles trap if you set it to the heaviest recoil setting it will not eject at all and will act as a shell catcher.
YES......
Brother, Is 1oz loads considered light and 1&1/8oz heavy for a 1987 Sweet 16? Thanks!
I have the Model 11. For the recoil spring, I use Lucas Red-n-Tacky #2.
Like the Outro!
Lucid and authoritative! It would seem (I have never handled an A5) quite the fussy mechanism to tune optimally?
Generally speaking it's almost a set it and forget it system. I'm sure you would eventually find a shell that didn't like how you had it set but it's got a pretty good range before that happens.
And it works the same on the Remington version
BIRDSHOT: 2' 3/4, Remove brakes completely
Sometimes, yes, depending on the particular gun and how worn it is...
Fancy doing a video for the magnum too? The rings are different.
Magnum has 2 sets of the same thing. The principle of setup is identical, just two in series.
@@marknovak8255 Thank you! Apparently my manual got lost at some point in the last 66 years!
So the way you set it up in this video, is that the correct way for slugs?
Love your videos Mark. I have a 1958 A5 in 20 ga. Sweet shooting ,but it ejects the shells usually 8 to 10 feet away. Is this caused by the friction ring setup?
My roommate has a Franchi 48AL he picked up for absurdly cheap that's being difficult, I was wondering, would setting it up in this manner work on it as well? From stripping it down and cleaning it per the owner's manual, the parts look strikingly similar.
The principle of operation is the same, the physics are the same.
@@marknovak8255 Awesome. Thanks much.
I don’t get it. I have the Remington Model 11 and it beat the shit out of me, new springs, no help, Browning’s long round spring still beat me up, clocked the friction ring gaps like the gas rings on AR and suddenly I had to rearrange the friction setup to cycle light loads. On the verge of buying the wood and magazine tube to change it from a Sportsman to a 5 shot Model 11
Can this function without those 3 ring peices?? I have an old belgium a5 but these peices are missing?
With light loads
You definitely want to acquire those pieces.
The old FN guns are WAY too cool to subject them to that.
Thanks for that.
Tengo una igual agesa marcar pero tiene una faya solo revientan 4 o 5 cartuchos illa no quiere rebentar los cartuchos porque gracias
i need help with a browning A5 Action Spring Tube. how to weld a new one on?
Why is there a wide brass ring with the friction spring around it like you show and others that have one thin brass ring and NO friction spring?
I'm a pump kind of guy. Just adding a comment to help out.
Have you ever owned a J.C. Higgins Model 20? They were made by High Standard for Sears in the 50's and early 60's. Best pump for the money. Mossberg copied their action but used an alloy receiver. The JC's are steel and the barrel is screwed into the receiver. Super tough.
Splendid. 11-87 version next?
I just educated my daughter on JMB.