Love the progress, looking great! One thing I'd mention... if your young fruit trees bear a bud that will turn to fruit... CUT IT OFF (this is where the phrase "nip it in the bud" came from)!!! The plant wastes tons of energy producing that fruit that it would otherwise be putting into growth. You are far better off planning for the long term, killing the fruit buds in the first couple years, and then your plant will grow much larger and bear more fruit in the long run. Keep up the good work!!
So much success in such a short time... Epic!!! Thanks for the update!!! Please keep them coming! The cooler temps will surely help your lettuce, spinach, and your aquaponics setup!
I had to use cotton swabs and dawn dish soap to get the aphids off greenhouse grapefruit.tops and bottoms every leaf.then clean water rinse.i just got water soapy, had a rinse water bucket. Washed leaves off first soapy, then did again clear water. I used the blue dawn that advertises safe for the environment.
Your fig looks like it might need pruning to encourage branching which will help production and harvesting. Most people keep them fat and squat for those reasons. Also, pomegranates need quite a lot of pruning cos the trunks and branches can get a bit out of hand, but that's probably not critical right now. I'm so glad to have found your videos of someone trying a geothermal sunken greenhouse. So cool and love the advice. Thanks!
I love the updates, and am eager to see how the suggestions in the comments, and your own adjustments work for you. Every part of the country has a different climate, so results may vary, but I think we can all learn a lot from your journey. I really hope the mangos work, and I'd love to see papaya, as well. Though, for me personally, the dragonfruit is the star. I look forward to every time I'm notified of your new videos. It's a highlight of the month. Keep it up and thanks for sharing!!
Starfruit is very difficult to grow if your growing circumstances are not stable. Also they don't like wind, so if they're close to your fans or in the airflow I'd move them to an area with less airflow and a more steady constant temperature.
Great videos. I also had aphids for which I purchsed Greenlace wing eggs which are suppose to hatch in 5 days and for 3 weeks eat the ahpids untill they get their wings. Sadly they havent hatched yet. Maybe was too hot but they would be in garden for 3 weeks because they cant migrate. Lady bugs fly away but they say release at dusk because they dont fly at night. I had outbreak after I gave good shot of fish imulsion and I read they get active late Aug. Sept as daylight shorten. I used peroxide and water and soapy solutions which both worked well. Watch peroxide strength ..test spray. I wanted to stay all organic im not sure about neem oil . I had this problem last two weeks so im just venting some sry. Hope you get good ideas. Keep the vids coming ty.
Set up very nicely. In your other video, you said you had cold water fish, i think you should go solely with koi or gold fish for the comfort of the fish because of hot temp inside. They are hardy ones because of their tolerance of both cold and hot water temps.
if you replant your tomatoes into the hydrotons or lava rocks in the aquaponics system, they will sure grow at least twice as fas and more tomatoes provided that your fish size and population and the growbed medias produce enough of the required nitrates.
I'm in Ohio and my mango trees doing well but it's had a lot of shade and we're not as dry as you are there. We have papaya as well and they are doing great
I’ve seen a few of Russ’ kits with reflective panels on the north walls. Is there a reason why you decided to not go with that option? Super excited more people building Mr. Finch’s awesome greenhouse. I truly believe this is the future of sustainable local farming
We decided to use spray on insulation on the North Wall and paint it. Its somewhat reflective. The Insulation was our main priority. I Agree the Greenhouse in the Snow is pretty awesome.
Have you thought of placing a humidifier on the fans in the suction room to improve the humidity? Also maybe a swamp cooler attached to the outside vent?
Parasitic wasps are expensive but work well it just takes time. I've used lots of beneficiasl but if you put them in you won't want to use neem oil or you'll kill them
if you want to produce more nitrates with your current growbed media and save space in greenhouse and provide more nutrient to your plants you can simply use additional barrel full of body or dish washing plastic mesh beside your barrel filter in the corner, it has three time more surface area for beneficial bacteria colony than hydroton pebbles. (of course, add more fish or let your fish grow in size-big fish like koi tend to lack in space, so goldfish in lots of numbers will do fine in your tank)
I've all kinds of problems with my walls clasping during construction, lots of rain in Arkansas, hope to get it in the dry soon, if your close to any chicken farmers, they use what is called a cool cell to control the heat in there chicken houses, l would like to talk to you if that's possible, keep up the good work,
I haven’t seen your videos before, and I can’t figure out where you are located. I’m interested in setting up something like this when I move to North Idaho. Thanks!
Russ Finch told me in May 2021 when I toured his Alliance NE original greenhouse, that for the first time in 18 years he has aphids. So he released praying mantis.
Hello again, and thanks for these great videos. For the pipes you recommend doubling from 12 to 24. Where is the other inlet for that system, other than the one in the entry room. Are they piped to help cool the system? Nevermind I rewatched and noticed that you said the run 50ft and end in the yard.
I've tried them but the clog up quickly. I use well water - I think that's why. If you have any good recommendations, I think misting really helps during hot summer.
@@trailbreakfarms I noticed you don’t have the air return along the top of the greenhouse like they are using in the new one... Also for the summer I have wondered about a screened window in the middle of the north wall, maybe a thin horizontal one??? Just something to think about?
Its all cool. Their is a old boy in Nebraska who has been growing citrus for almost 30 years. I don't know his name, but do some research and reach out to him.
Did you mesure soil temperature? While subtropical trees such as citruses will do great with cool soil temperature, the true tropical ones (bananas, mangos, starfruit) need warmer soil temperature. Your banana plants should be 5-8ft tall by now. I would keep them in pots on a heating mat to maintain 68F+ soil temperature year round. Even tomatoes will stop absorbing phosphorus when soil temperature drops below 59F.
Definitely agree. Our Bananas grow very little when its cold. Most of the growth came during Summer. I like the idea of putting a heating pad underneath one of the pots. I'm trying to get my bottom temperature higher with a tweak here and a tweak there. Thanks for the feedback.
@@trailbreakfarms Good morning, I binge watched all your updates yesterday so bear with me, I might have a slew of question/commentaries in a very short time. I kept thinking about your water table being so close to the greenhouse floor. Have you thought about using the water as a cooling/heating mean? It seems to me you wouldn't have to dig deep to guarantee a permanent reserve of water through which you could run a coil of copper linked to a heat exchanger (such as a car radiator). It would give you access the the water's thermal storing capacity for cooling in the summer and heating in the winter without having to actually having to move air in and out of the greenhouse. By running a coil inside your fish tank, you could probably also cool down the water's temperature during the summer months. I am going to keep following your updates since your project resembles pretty much what I intend to buid in the next five years.
Neem is not that good of either an insecticide or fungicide. Combining it with Pyrethrin may help. If you'd prefer to stay organic, Spinosad works very well for me in PG.
Doubling the number and length of your tubes will leave you in exactly the same position thermally but poorer financially. The issue is that existing tube nimber and length limit the amount of air you can move per unit of time. To move heat you have to move air and lots of it. The fan inlet and outlet temp/RH% on one of Russ greenhouses show the cooling performance is equivalent of 1000w of heat removed per 5000 cubic feet of airflow. th-cam.com/video/ZD_3_gsgsnk/w-d-xo.html If the greenhouse glazing area is 50m2, the system will need to remove 50kw/hr just to keep pace assuming the temperature and rh% levels remain constant (whichthey wont). How much air would it take? approximately 4,166cfm. At that flowrate, each of the 12 tubes gets 347cfm (assuming the tubes are perfectly balanced), A 4" smooth bore rigid pvc tube 230ft long at that flowrate will incur a loss of 13.4" wc, be aware that 4" ADS tubing will have losses several magnitudes higher than this. In short, the tube length effectively prevents you from running the airflow required to provide effective cooling. Airflow is THE most important variable. Consider the surface area of 12x 230ft tubes and 48x 57.5ft tubes is exactly the same. The heat transfer potential is also exactly the same for both. The difference is with 4166cfm, the 48 tube system will have 86.8cfm per tube and a loss of just 0.26" wc. Compare it to the 12x 230ft numbers above and it should be a light bulb moment. The 48 tube system stands a reasonable chance of cooling the greenhouse, the 12 tube system stands no chance at all. Fwiw, its more efficient to install several lower flowrate systems than a single high flowrate system. It reduces losses (lower flowrates), requires smaller manifolds (less $$), provides for greater flexibility and economy, delivers a more even airflow and temperature distribution in the greenhouse.
Thanks for your feedback, John. My reason for recommending more pipes is because I need to move more air and would like to draw that extra air from the geothermal pipes in my Suction Room rather than from the outside air. I can control the air flow my reducing or increasing fan speed. But the ideal fan speed needed to get the cooling I want requires more air to pull from. So that's what I'd do. My reason for adding length to the suction room pipes is similar to the reason why we have 230 feet length on the pipes in the main growing room - more cool air. I can pull the air quicker or slower depending on where I set my fan speed.
@@trailbreakfarms Most folks only consider cooling capacity in terms of tube length, primarily tube surface area and temperature difference. They overlook the issue that the tube length affects the amount of air the fan can deliver through that length of tube. Without sufficient air you cant make use of the surface area :) If you run a fan into a tube with a closed end it wont matter how far you turn it up, you`ll have a zero flow rate. Long tubes are similar in that they present a resistance to flow. If you increase the flow rate you also increase the velocity and the resistance.Doubling the flow rate increases the loss by a factor of 4. so if the fan is struggling to begin with its unlikely to deliver a higher flow against a higher resistance.. If you can measure the current draw of the fan that will give you an idea of what its doing. The higher the current, the more air its delivering. If you increase the fan speed and dont see an increase in current, the fan is at its limit (coasting) due to the tube resistance and isnt able to deliver more air. If the blower came with a spec sheet it should have a fan curve showing what flow rates the blower can deliver at various pressures. As an example, if you need to run 100cfm through a 4" (230ft) smooth bore pvc tube (no bends) you will need a fan capable of delivering 100cfm @ 3.2" wc. If you halved the flow to 50cfm you`d need a fan capable of 50cfm @ 0.38" wc. If you cut the 230ft tube into 10x 23ft lengths you could run 100cfm through each with a fan capable of delivering 2300cfm @ 0.13" wc. It isnt possible to run 2300cfm through a single 230ft tube (same surface area as the 10x 23ft tubes), but even at half that flow, 1150cfm, you`d be looking at 181" wc, which is pretty close to 7psi :)
@JohnGuest45 I see we are getting to the next level here. It's almost rocket science now. Elon Musk will hire you to build these on Mars. You should run a new greenhouse business called "John in Tha house" or smth. Anyway, good read! I got 3 little greenhouses already (in Europe, Estonia). Also, planning on building this eco type sometimes in future. Wish you had drawings for ideal placement for ventilators and tubes. You should write a book about it!
@@musaire Its not rocket science, its just physics and thermodynamics. It sounds much worse than it is. The system has two basic operating modes, cooling and heating. The cooling side involves the evaporation of water, which in a greenhouse is predominantly from the laves of plants during normal transpiration. To get water to evaporate (change phase from a liquid to a gas, namely water vapor) it needs a lot of energy. It takes this energy from the nearby warm air or surface. The energy it takes is in a sensible form, Its important to remenber that sensible heat is heat you can feel.The loss of sensible energy from the air or surface causes a drop in temperature. The sensible energy used for the phase change is now in a latent form, its essentially locked up and has no effect on the temperature. You cant feel latent heat, its hidden.It simply increases the RH% of the air. When the air flows through the underground tubing it cools to dew point and the water begins to condense. This is also involves phase change, the energy that was gained to convert the liquid water into water vapor (gas) is given back..in its sensible form. The now drier air continues through the tubing losing sensible heat and exits as cool air. When you run cool air through a warm mass it gains both sensible and latent forms of energy. The sensible energy needed for the liquid to gas phase change can only be sourced from the mass or from the air itself, typically its a combination of the two as the the temperature differences and RH% changes dynamically as the air passes through the tubing . The thing to take away from this is that during heating you can expect warm air from the tubes but it will have a very high RH%. A percentage of the valuable sensible heat you stored in the mass to heat the greenhouse will be used to increase the RH% of the air, not raise its temperature Warm air exiting at 90+RH% into the greenhouse at night in winter is a recipe for condensation running down the walls and dripping from the roof, not to mention mold, etc.. If you are aware of this issue,you can solve it in the design phase. Some folks try to fix the issue with a dehumidifier. If you have temps above 65F it may be an option. If its much less you`ll have condenser icing issues. I personallly wouldnt use a domestic dehuey in a greenhouse due to the potential shock hazard :)
@@JohnGuest45 Ahh yeah, all that makes sense. :) Good overview. Temperature is a weird way of measuring things (try it in plasma). After all I think we should be happy that the energy from the warm humid air is released somewhere in the greenhouse while the water condenses. I guess, in the end, plants also use up the energy from the condensed water on their leaves (no?) in case some dew forms, and added energy to the greenhouse from all the condensations to walls/also to the coldest parts of GH. As I have no experience with all this geothermal tubing and what is the most efficient, that's why it feels like rocket science, modeling all those combinations. :D How many sets of tubes, fans. Lots of things to factor in alongside. I have water dripping down the walls of my greenhouses as I write here. :l I closed them for night... Yes, molds and rotting of leaf and flowers are what I'm most worried about. I'm constantly spraying my tomato plants (not all varieties are that vulnerable but my Black Cherries are) with garlic infusion to combat that - it is surprisingly effective (I use 1 clove of garlic on 1.5liter of water and make sure it is sprayed to hovering mist - once in every 2 weeks for prophylaxis, in every week or few days if diseased plants).
Building a 40 ft kit right now and have ordered another 2 six foot sections for the "suction" room. Any advice for ordering Fans? looks like you've made changes on the go... thought Id ask before ordering. I'm in Canada and the kit supplied fans did not have the proper sticker for customs. Thank you for posting these videos we have def. learned a few things already ! E
I have ordered my fans from Greenhousemegastore.com. I have (2) 24" fans that work with 30" vents on the other side and one 20" fan that I use in the Winter. With the Fans, you want to make sure you have somewhere to draw air from (hopefully the geothermal pipes) and somewhere for the air to go. When you have fans on the suction room wall, you are pulling air from the suction room and creating pressure in the main growing room. Thats what the vent pipes are for. Lots going on here, let me know if you have any questions. And good luck with your GH
what is the temperature difference between inside air temp and fish tank temp? rough estimation? for example over the course of 3-5 days with daytime outside temps ranging between 30-35 degrees celsius. also, you said your greenhouse inside temp is 5-10 degrees celsius cooler than that of the ourside temp. is the this reduced temp is reached by using all of the cooling systems in the greenhouse, that is, the two groups of pipes and 2 fans?
The Fish tank reached a high temperature during the summer of about 69 degrees. It will be interesting to see what the temperature is during Winter. I'll keep the data and pass it along. For cooling the Greenhouse during the Summer, we used a number of things; First, the Greenhouse is built below grade, which helps. We have geothermal pipes, a shade cloth, a misting system, and fans. All of these helped us keep the temperature cooler inside than outside during the hot, hot summer.
Be careful with the dragonfruit - when they get bigger and full of fruit they can be incredibly heavy and weigh hundreds of pounds. Might be better to let them climb rock or cork or wood walls/posts and let their aerial roots grow into it like mounted orchids (it’s how they naturally grow) and that will support the plant. You don’t want hundreds of pounds of cactus falling, believe me lol
Green or brown lacewings and praying mantises are also good predators against aphids and are commercially available.
Love the progress, looking great! One thing I'd mention... if your young fruit trees bear a bud that will turn to fruit... CUT IT OFF (this is where the phrase "nip it in the bud" came from)!!! The plant wastes tons of energy producing that fruit that it would otherwise be putting into growth. You are far better off planning for the long term, killing the fruit buds in the first couple years, and then your plant will grow much larger and bear more fruit in the long run. Keep up the good work!!
This is good advice!
I am seconding this!
Ladybugs are unionized!🤣. Sacrifice plants always helps.
So much success in such a short time... Epic!!! Thanks for the update!!! Please keep them coming!
The cooler temps will surely help your lettuce, spinach, and your aquaponics setup!
Love the update video, great to see the plants thriving
Man, this is so nice. Your updates really are appreciated to follow up. Looks terrific.
Can’t write to see how it rolls this winter
I had to use cotton swabs and dawn dish soap to get the aphids off greenhouse grapefruit.tops and bottoms every leaf.then clean water rinse.i just got water soapy, had a rinse water bucket. Washed leaves off first soapy, then did again clear water. I used the blue dawn that advertises safe for the environment.
Your fig looks like it might need pruning to encourage branching which will help production and harvesting. Most people keep them fat and squat for those reasons. Also, pomegranates need quite a lot of pruning cos the trunks and branches can get a bit out of hand, but that's probably not critical right now. I'm so glad to have found your videos of someone trying a geothermal sunken greenhouse. So cool and love the advice. Thanks!
Thanks for your feedback. Yes, I need to do some pruning.
I love the updates, and am eager to see how the suggestions in the comments, and your own adjustments work for you. Every part of the country has a different climate, so results may vary, but I think we can all learn a lot from your journey. I really hope the mangos work, and I'd love to see papaya, as well. Though, for me personally, the dragonfruit is the star.
I look forward to every time I'm notified of your new videos. It's a highlight of the month. Keep it up and thanks for sharing!!
Starfruit is very difficult to grow if your growing circumstances are not stable. Also they don't like wind, so if they're close to your fans or in the airflow I'd move them to an area with less airflow and a more steady constant temperature.
keep it up!!
It's grown so much! Well done!
Great videos. I also had aphids for which I purchsed Greenlace wing eggs which are suppose to hatch in 5 days and for 3 weeks eat the ahpids untill they get their wings. Sadly they havent hatched yet. Maybe was too hot but they would be in garden for 3 weeks because they cant migrate. Lady bugs fly away but they say release at dusk because they dont fly at night. I had outbreak after I gave good shot of fish imulsion and I read they get active late Aug. Sept as daylight shorten. I used peroxide and water and soapy solutions which both worked well. Watch peroxide strength ..test spray. I wanted to stay all organic im not sure about neem oil . I had this problem last two weeks so im just venting some sry. Hope you get good ideas. Keep the vids coming ty.
Set up very nicely. In your other video, you said you had cold water fish, i think you should go solely with koi or gold fish for the comfort of the fish because of hot temp inside. They are hardy ones because of their tolerance of both cold and hot water temps.
if you replant your tomatoes into the hydrotons or lava rocks in the aquaponics system, they will sure grow at least twice as fas and more tomatoes provided that your fish size and population and the growbed medias produce enough of the required nitrates.
Really appreciate the updates!! On a side note when you first started talking I thought Clint Eastwood was talking. Looking Great!
I'm in Ohio and my mango trees doing well but it's had a lot of shade and we're not as dry as you are there. We have papaya as well and they are doing great
Just ordered my first Papaya today!
Great Job! I love your updates!
I’ve seen a few of Russ’ kits with reflective panels on the north walls. Is there a reason why you decided to not go with that option? Super excited more people building Mr. Finch’s awesome greenhouse. I truly believe this is the future of sustainable local farming
We decided to use spray on insulation on the North Wall and paint it. Its somewhat reflective. The Insulation was our main priority. I Agree the Greenhouse in the Snow is pretty awesome.
Aphids are a excessive nitrogen problem. Water more often and cut back on nitrogen.
Have you thought of placing a humidifier on the fans in the suction room to improve the humidity? Also maybe a swamp cooler attached to the outside vent?
Yes. Great Feedback. We are going to do a Water Wall on the West Wall.
Maybe try another variety of mango? Mangos grow well in east africa and india so i cant see the heat being a problem. Keep up the good work.
Stefan Sobkowiak has a good TH-cam on aphids. ( aphids are a great indicator of ...)
Have you guys tried lacewing larvae? I'm in the process of giving them a shot.
We've used ladybugs. I think I want to add some lacewing larvae in the spring and try both.
Parasitic wasps are expensive but work well it just takes time. I've used lots of beneficiasl but if you put them in you won't want to use neem oil or you'll kill them
if you want to produce more nitrates with your current growbed media and save space in greenhouse and provide more nutrient to your plants you can simply use additional barrel full of body or dish washing plastic mesh beside your barrel filter in the corner, it has three time more surface area for beneficial bacteria colony than hydroton pebbles. (of course, add more fish or let your fish grow in size-big fish like koi tend to lack in space, so goldfish in lots of numbers will do fine in your tank)
I've all kinds of problems with my walls clasping during construction, lots of rain in Arkansas, hope to get it in the dry soon, if your close to any chicken farmers, they use what is called a cool cell to control the heat in there chicken houses, l would like to talk to you if that's possible, keep up the good work,
You bet. Any time. My email is steve@amsource.com
I haven’t seen your videos before, and I can’t figure out where you are located. I’m interested in setting up something like this when I move to North Idaho. Thanks!
Russ Finch told me in May 2021 when I toured his Alliance NE original greenhouse, that for the first time in 18 years he has aphids. So he released praying mantis.
Lady Bugs and Lacewing also good
Hello again, and thanks for these great videos. For the pipes you recommend doubling from 12 to 24. Where is the other inlet for that system, other than the one in the entry room. Are they piped to help cool the system? Nevermind I rewatched and noticed that you said the run 50ft and end in the yard.
if I were to do it again I would run them 150 feet so as to keep them in the ground longer
You might want to try misters to lower the temperature and help your mangos???
I've tried them but the clog up quickly. I use well water - I think that's why. If you have any good recommendations, I think misting really helps during hot summer.
@@trailbreakfarms I noticed you don’t have the air return along the top of the greenhouse like they are using in the new one...
Also for the summer I have wondered about a screened window in the middle of the north wall, maybe a thin horizontal one??? Just something to think about?
Its all cool. Their is a old boy in Nebraska who has been growing citrus for almost 30 years. I don't know his name, but do some research and reach out to him.
Russ Finch. This is his GH Kit which is sold commercially. Greenhouse in the Snow.
Did you mesure soil temperature? While subtropical trees such as citruses will do great with cool soil temperature, the true tropical ones (bananas, mangos, starfruit) need warmer soil temperature. Your banana plants should be 5-8ft tall by now. I would keep them in pots on a heating mat to maintain 68F+ soil temperature year round. Even tomatoes will stop absorbing phosphorus when soil temperature drops below 59F.
Definitely agree. Our Bananas grow very little when its cold. Most of the growth came during Summer. I like the idea of putting a heating pad underneath one of the pots. I'm trying to get my bottom temperature higher with a tweak here and a tweak there. Thanks for the feedback.
@@trailbreakfarms Good morning, I binge watched all your updates yesterday so bear with me, I might have a slew of question/commentaries in a very short time. I kept thinking about your water table being so close to the greenhouse floor. Have you thought about using the water as a cooling/heating mean? It seems to me you wouldn't have to dig deep to guarantee a permanent reserve of water through which you could run a coil of copper linked to a heat exchanger (such as a car radiator). It would give you access the the water's thermal storing capacity for cooling in the summer and heating in the winter without having to actually having to move air in and out of the greenhouse. By running a coil inside your fish tank, you could probably also cool down the water's temperature during the summer months. I am going to keep following your updates since your project resembles pretty much what I intend to buid in the next five years.
Mangos need super high humidity.
It is called retire grows fruit in snow. I think.
Neem is not that good of either an insecticide or fungicide. Combining it with Pyrethrin may help. If you'd prefer to stay organic, Spinosad works very well for me in PG.
I'll look into Spinosad. Thanks for the tip.
Doubling the number and length of your tubes will leave you in exactly the same position thermally but poorer financially. The issue is that existing tube nimber and length limit the amount of air you can move per unit of time. To move heat you have to move air and lots of it. The fan inlet and outlet temp/RH% on one of Russ greenhouses show the cooling performance is equivalent of 1000w of heat removed per 5000 cubic feet of airflow. th-cam.com/video/ZD_3_gsgsnk/w-d-xo.html
If the greenhouse glazing area is 50m2, the system will need to remove 50kw/hr just to keep pace assuming the temperature and rh% levels remain constant (whichthey wont).
How much air would it take? approximately 4,166cfm. At that flowrate, each of the 12 tubes gets 347cfm (assuming the tubes are perfectly balanced), A 4" smooth bore rigid pvc tube 230ft long at that flowrate will incur a loss of 13.4" wc, be aware that 4" ADS tubing will have losses several magnitudes higher than this. In short, the tube length effectively prevents you from running the airflow required to provide effective cooling.
Airflow is THE most important variable. Consider the surface area of 12x 230ft tubes and 48x 57.5ft tubes is exactly the same. The heat transfer potential is also exactly the same for both. The difference is with 4166cfm, the 48 tube system will have 86.8cfm per tube and a loss of just 0.26" wc. Compare it to the 12x 230ft numbers above and it should be a light bulb moment.
The 48 tube system stands a reasonable chance of cooling the greenhouse, the 12 tube system stands no chance at all.
Fwiw, its more efficient to install several lower flowrate systems than a single high flowrate system. It reduces losses (lower flowrates), requires smaller manifolds (less $$), provides for greater flexibility and economy, delivers a more even airflow and temperature distribution in the greenhouse.
Thanks for your feedback, John. My reason for recommending more pipes is because I need to move more air and would like to draw that extra air from the geothermal pipes in my Suction Room rather than from the outside air. I can control the air flow my reducing or increasing fan speed. But the ideal fan speed needed to get the cooling I want requires more air to pull from. So that's what I'd do. My reason for adding length to the suction room pipes is similar to the reason why we have 230 feet length on the pipes in the main growing room - more cool air. I can pull the air quicker or slower depending on where I set my fan speed.
@@trailbreakfarms
Most folks only consider cooling capacity in terms of tube length, primarily tube surface area and temperature difference. They overlook the issue that the tube length affects the amount of air the fan can deliver through that length of tube. Without sufficient air you cant make use of the surface area :) If you run a fan into a tube with a closed end it wont matter how far you turn it up, you`ll have a zero flow rate. Long tubes are similar in that they present a resistance to flow. If you increase the flow rate you also increase the velocity and the resistance.Doubling the flow rate increases the loss by a factor of 4. so if the fan is struggling to begin with its unlikely to deliver a higher flow against a higher resistance.. If you can measure the current draw of the fan that will give you an idea of what its doing. The higher the current, the more air its delivering. If you increase the fan speed and dont see an increase in current, the fan is at its limit (coasting) due to the tube resistance and isnt able to deliver more air. If the blower came with a spec sheet it should have a fan curve showing what flow rates the blower can deliver at various pressures. As an example, if you need to run 100cfm through a 4" (230ft) smooth bore pvc tube (no bends) you will need a fan capable of delivering 100cfm @ 3.2" wc. If you halved the flow to 50cfm you`d need a fan capable of 50cfm @ 0.38" wc. If you cut the 230ft tube into 10x 23ft lengths you could run 100cfm through each with a fan capable of delivering 2300cfm @ 0.13" wc. It isnt possible to run 2300cfm through a single 230ft tube (same surface area as the 10x 23ft tubes), but even at half that flow, 1150cfm, you`d be looking at 181" wc, which is pretty close to 7psi :)
@JohnGuest45 I see we are getting to the next level here. It's almost rocket science now. Elon Musk will hire you to build these on Mars.
You should run a new greenhouse business called "John in Tha house" or smth.
Anyway, good read!
I got 3 little greenhouses already (in Europe, Estonia). Also, planning on building this eco type sometimes in future. Wish you had drawings for ideal placement for ventilators and tubes. You should write a book about it!
@@musaire
Its not rocket science, its just physics and thermodynamics. It sounds much worse than it is. The system has two basic operating modes, cooling and heating. The cooling side involves the evaporation of water, which in a greenhouse is predominantly from the laves of plants during normal transpiration. To get water to evaporate (change phase from a liquid to a gas, namely water vapor) it needs a lot of energy. It takes this energy from the nearby warm air or surface. The energy it takes is in a sensible form, Its important to remenber that sensible heat is heat you can feel.The loss of sensible energy from the air or surface causes a drop in temperature. The sensible energy used for the phase change is now in a latent form, its essentially locked up and has no effect on the temperature. You cant feel latent heat, its hidden.It simply increases the RH% of the air. When the air flows through the underground tubing it cools to dew point and the water begins to condense. This is also involves phase change, the energy that was gained to convert the liquid water into water vapor (gas) is given back..in its sensible form. The now drier air continues through the tubing losing sensible heat and exits as cool air. When you run cool air through a warm mass it gains both sensible and latent forms of energy. The sensible energy needed for the liquid to gas phase change can only be sourced from the mass or from the air itself, typically its a combination of the two as the the temperature differences and RH% changes dynamically as the air passes through the tubing . The thing to take away from this is that during heating you can expect warm air from the tubes but it will have a very high RH%. A percentage of the valuable sensible heat you stored in the mass to heat the greenhouse will be used to increase the RH% of the air, not raise its temperature Warm air exiting at 90+RH% into the greenhouse at night in winter is a recipe for condensation running down the walls and dripping from the roof, not to mention mold, etc.. If you are aware of this issue,you can solve it in the design phase. Some folks try to fix the issue with a dehumidifier. If you have temps above 65F it may be an option. If its much less you`ll have condenser icing issues. I personallly wouldnt use a domestic dehuey in a greenhouse due to the potential shock hazard :)
@@JohnGuest45
Ahh yeah, all that makes sense. :) Good overview.
Temperature is a weird way of measuring things (try it in plasma). After all I think we should be happy that the energy from the warm humid air is released somewhere in the greenhouse while the water condenses. I guess, in the end, plants also use up the energy from the condensed water on their leaves (no?) in case some dew forms, and added energy to the greenhouse from all the condensations to walls/also to the coldest parts of GH.
As I have no experience with all this geothermal tubing and what is the most efficient, that's why it feels like rocket science, modeling all those combinations. :D How many sets of tubes, fans. Lots of things to factor in alongside.
I have water dripping down the walls of my greenhouses as I write here. :l I closed them for night...
Yes, molds and rotting of leaf and flowers are what I'm most worried about. I'm constantly spraying my tomato plants (not all varieties are that vulnerable but my Black Cherries are) with garlic infusion to combat that - it is surprisingly effective (I use 1 clove of garlic on 1.5liter of water and make sure it is sprayed to hovering mist - once in every 2 weeks for prophylaxis, in every week or few days if diseased plants).
Building a 40 ft kit right now and have ordered another 2 six foot sections for the "suction" room. Any advice for ordering Fans? looks like you've made changes on the go... thought Id ask before ordering. I'm in Canada and the kit supplied fans did not have the proper sticker for customs.
Thank you for posting these videos we have def. learned a few things already ! E
I have ordered my fans from Greenhousemegastore.com. I have (2) 24" fans that work with 30" vents on the other side and one 20" fan that I use in the Winter. With the Fans, you want to make sure you have somewhere to draw air from (hopefully the geothermal pipes) and somewhere for the air to go. When you have fans on the suction room wall, you are pulling air from the suction room and creating pressure in the main growing room. Thats what the vent pipes are for. Lots going on here, let me know if you have any questions. And good luck with your GH
@@trailbreakfarms I'll check out the link. Yeah lots to consider for airflow temp and humidity . Thank you!
what is the temperature difference between inside air temp and fish tank temp? rough estimation? for example over the course of 3-5 days with daytime outside temps ranging between 30-35 degrees celsius. also, you said your greenhouse inside temp is 5-10 degrees celsius cooler than that of the ourside temp. is the this reduced temp is reached by using all of the cooling systems in the greenhouse, that is, the two groups of pipes and 2 fans?
The Fish tank reached a high temperature during the summer of about 69 degrees. It will be interesting to see what the temperature is during Winter. I'll keep the data and pass it along. For cooling the Greenhouse during the Summer, we used a number of things; First, the Greenhouse is built below grade, which helps. We have geothermal pipes, a shade cloth, a misting system, and fans. All of these helped us keep the temperature cooler inside than outside during the hot, hot summer.
Be careful with the dragonfruit - when they get bigger and full of fruit they can be incredibly heavy and weigh hundreds of pounds. Might be better to let them climb rock or cork or wood walls/posts and let their aerial roots grow into it like mounted orchids (it’s how they naturally grow) and that will support the plant. You don’t want hundreds of pounds of cactus falling, believe me lol
Thanks for the feedback.
Are your trees dwarf variety? What is the height of your greenhouse?
yes I have many dwarf varieties. Others will be pruned as needed. Height is about 11 feet.
buy ladybugs for your aphid problem, you should be able to buy them online.
Yes, totally agree. We get them locally.