Everything you said about Calavera has gone through my mind as I used to ride there a few years ago. I saw the signs, I understood it to be a preserve. But I never saw and indication of preservation. No new plants, no erosion control, no new hiking trails, no trail signs, no education on native species and animals. Seems like CA just wants to own the land until the right developer comes along perhaps? Maybe for the right price they’d develop it. They sure as hell aren’t spending any money to “preserve” the place.
The nature of the land swaps make this land safe from development as of now. The CNLM land owned by the city was given to them to offset local development. The CDFW land would have to change designation before it ever got developed. So, while I dislike the complete lack of management done by the CDFW, at least its preserved open space as of now.
Thanks for the work here to understand the MASSIVE frustration we have had with CDFW. We are grateful that we finally got some impactful trail work done in 2024 in partnership with the City of Carlsbad!
@@outdoorsandiego Yeah my buddy Tyler and I Built that line! We spent a lot of time out there riding and building. keep nut the good fight because we need more good riding bin the area! Respect!
Living in oside for 20 years i got to ride that whole place including the now closed flightline area that connected to the south. In the early 2005 days, i remember being told that they needed to close flightline due to environmental concerns. Hundreds of trail users lobbied city council meetings to keep trails open. A yesr later, developers levelled the area, extended faraday and build industrial space and retirement homes. At that point i knew corruption was deep and government will use environment for their agenda. Same is happening to south calavera. The plan is to build houses and extend canon. Sage creek HS was built in environmental area too. I concluded its all BS and ride everywhere while flipping the finger at the rangers. The strategy is to drive out users and then sale to developers. Luckily i left SD and now in AZ where there is much better riding, more freedom and less nannies watching over you. Out here i wave to law enforcement and we both wish each other a nice day.
Shorten this a bit and send it to the local state reps, county reps, and congressman. Ask for support and an official review of the public access issue. Perhaps a specific recreational designation. Get some guys to collect signatures at the local trails and include that in letters to the reps.
San Diego needs a stronger MTB association backed by major bike brands. Specialized has a north county shop now, they could help majorly in financial backing. Ultimately people don't want to support or spend their time digging XC trails at PQ or jumpless old hiking trails with some pavers and a few rocks covered with dirt as berms. Instead of trying to maintain access to mix use trail networks where problems will always occur, which are not purpose built for MTB.. They should be trying to secure a piece of land from one or two cities that is MTB ONLY, get a budget, and hire professional builders to do them. This happens all over the PNW and why their networks are SOO good.
@@outdoorsandiego No doubt about it but in order to attract people you need to give them a vision they can agree with. I'm not putting my time or money into keeping our current trails in running order. They aren't even mountain bike trails. They are almost ALL hiking and mix use trails. Hell is there even ONE jumpline they maintain? Come with a vision, promote it, you'll get the support you want.
@teraengineering8239 sadly that's not actually how it works. Once a property is designated a Reserve it takes an act of God or a $hit ton of $$$ to create a Land swap.
@calaveratrails6787 elected representatives have a lot more influence than you might think. If they see momentum and public interest in a project, they can can get quite a bit done by simply requesting information from the appropriate agency.
There are signs at the Sage creek school entrance and at the top of the hill from the lake entrance. The closure really hasn't stopped the mountain biking on the reserve, but it has stopped a lot of trail maintenance efforts that would help to improve the spot, both environmentally and as a recreation spot
good video. I have been saying that about membership in SDMBA forever. I am a long time member in IMBA and SDMBA. Most mountain bikers in San Diego are pretty entitled and don't think through the facts of political action. They literally say things like SDMBA just wants manicured kitty litter trails. They just don't get the struggle. I rode Calaveras from 2003ish to 2018ish. Everyone with ADD, blind optimism a shovel and a dream was building there at the end. People were cutting new track across old tracks. Blind jumps over trails and cutting any climbing out they could. Cheeter line galore. They shot themselves in the foot. Yes they got rangers in Calaveras. Someone was worried about the endangered humping ridgeback toad and they complained and complained and complained.....And guess how many people belong to the local sierra club or audobon society, a lot more than 1800. I see this same fate befalling my next most liked local place because the trails are in a grey area. Grey areas stay grey until someone gets pissed or someone retires. God forbid you say that is poorly thought out building or why build when there are 30 trails in heavy neglect. Does not matter the YT Mob needs to get footy or local Instagram pro needs a line to jerk the ego. I don't care if they are a grey area. Fly under the radar or expect to get shutdown eventually. There is another spot in the area with a trailboss that does not condone anyone doing anything. Though he is a bit out of his mind he does stop reckless building ( of course he also stops improvements he does not like). The riders at Calaveras could have gotten together and policed themselves - it would have been hard because if I have a shovel and a dream to build on this illegal trail then who are you to stop me. But they could have done that. There is no place I can think of that I ride that does not have its days numbered. Grey area or not there's a few million people out there who want McMansions and that just squeezes more people into more trails. Just cause XYZ trail has been there for 20 years everyone thinks it wont go? It will, could be 1 year could be 20 but the day will come. That goes for all other grey areas.
I called out someone on IG recently for posting on a grey area ride spot. This person was calling the spot a bike park with the name of the area. It is not a bike park. Its a grey area. Someone actually said that "they did not see this place getting overrun because there were too many other place close by that are popular" Short sighted. When you've watch this story for 30 yeas like I have you know it a long game. 1 Fire, law suit or irate tree hugger is all it takes because the pressure just builds with more houses and more people. Flight line went and everyone showed up at Calavera. Take that scenario to some other spots. Greer?
It’s unclear what you are saying about Greer? It is however a great example of how illegal trail systems can take care of the land. It’s clean, animals thrive there, and there’s only one builder aside from the people not getting it and doing minor stuff but that gets shut down pretty quick.
@birdsandtrees just commenting that if that gets closed that is a lot of displaced users . Where will those people go. Just to the next grey area area......
One trip to Washington and you'll see the difference in their mtb trail associations. Name one spot in southern CA that's like Galbraith, (One of probably 20 mountains that have MTB specific trail use) There wouldn't be such a need for unsanctioned trail networks if there we a few designated spots that were professionally built.. but alas...
That's a bummer to hear. I feel like mountain bike options in San Diego are already very limited. I myself invested in a fat tire bike just so I could bike out in the desert on off-road trails. There are great spots out near jacumba if you don't mind hills and a little hike-a-bike.
We have more options than you'd think. The problem is most of them are gray area riding spots. We Are One land manager or when land swap away from losing just about every good riding spot in San Diego
I think everyone in North County has a soft spot for Calavera. One of my first rides back on a mountain bike after 20 plus year hiatus was at Calavera.
Its been 15 YEARS since SD MTB Assoc has produced even a single MILE of new trail in San Diego county. Zero new trails for SD county for over a DECADE and yet other counties throughout California have miles and miles of new trails. And we've had massive increase of new riders and yet ZERO new trails for those riders. What is the purpose of SDMBA?? Perhaps revenue and salary for 3 people that run it? Everyone needs to STOP membership renewal until we get new trails!!
@@J2XJ there's 1800 members what the hell are they supposed to do with that kind of support. Before you get heat from a fire you'll be surprised to hear you have to put wood in
Here is a list if trails that SDMBA has built or assisted in building: Cold Spring Trail, Cuyamaca State Park -Appendix Trail PQ -Barrel roll PQ -Tony’s Way, Pacific Highlands Ranch -Crestridge trails in Crest -black mountain - Black widow, night hawk connector, little black, roadrunner, ahwee trail, lilac
San Diego and SoCal faces multiple issues that makes it hard enough to keep our current trails, let alone build new trails. Do you know any land manager in San Diego that would be OK with a 20ft gap jumpline? How about a trail with sketchy tech features and a 15 ft near vertical rock roll? I know that's what we want to ride as modern mountain bikers, but I just don't see that happening. The SDMBA is doing the best they can with the cards they are dealt
If you are hiking on CNLM land at Calavera anywhere other than the fireroads, that trail was most likely cut by a mountain biker, or possibly a Moto rider way back in the day. This should not be an us vs. them situation. We could have all worked together to improve the reserve and allow for responsible recreation, but the current designation makes that impossible, and the land is worse off for it.
@zorrofox8950 there are no "legal" hiking trails on this property, ok, just one fire road that runs East/West across the property. Nothing on the Volcano or any other single track is technically designated as a trail. However CDFW will NEVER enforce use rules against hikers due to the true PR $hit storm it would cause them.
theres easily enough space and parking to accomodate everyone. its just nimbys and whiners that ruined it. this place was awesome back in the day. whenever i visit theres noone there and its just an overgrown rutted mess of brush and the whiners arent even using it @outdoorsandiego
Everything you said about Calavera has gone through my mind as I used to ride there a few years ago. I saw the signs, I understood it to be a preserve. But I never saw and indication of preservation. No new plants, no erosion control, no new hiking trails, no trail signs, no education on native species and animals. Seems like CA just wants to own the land until the right developer comes along perhaps? Maybe for the right price they’d develop it. They sure as hell aren’t spending any money to “preserve” the place.
The nature of the land swaps make this land safe from development as of now. The CNLM land owned by the city was given to them to offset local development. The CDFW land would have to change designation before it ever got developed. So, while I dislike the complete lack of management done by the CDFW, at least its preserved open space as of now.
Thanks for the work here to understand the MASSIVE frustration we have had with CDFW. We are grateful that we finally got some impactful trail work done in 2024 in partnership with the City of Carlsbad!
Thank you for your help and understanding the situation and thank you for all that you did in order to try to get the area reopened
That was my go to mtb spot when I was stationed at Camp Pendleton. Really helped with my mental health and stress levels
For so many of us, mountain biking is our therapy.
Great video! I spent hundreds of hours out there building and riding. They tore down everything good that I built. Keep fighting the good fight!
I rode for a while back there in 2004 and then got back into it in 2020. I'm really bummed I missed the Sesame Street days. That trail looked awesome
@@outdoorsandiego Yeah my buddy Tyler and I Built that line! We spent a lot of time out there riding and building. keep nut the good fight because we need more good riding bin the area! Respect!
Living in oside for 20 years i got to ride that whole place including the now closed flightline area that connected to the south. In the early 2005 days, i remember being told that they needed to close flightline due to environmental concerns. Hundreds of trail users lobbied city council meetings to keep trails open. A yesr later, developers levelled the area, extended faraday and build industrial space and retirement homes. At that point i knew corruption was deep and government will use environment for their agenda. Same is happening to south calavera. The plan is to build houses and extend canon. Sage creek HS was built in environmental area too. I concluded its all BS and ride everywhere while flipping the finger at the rangers. The strategy is to drive out users and then sale to developers. Luckily i left SD and now in AZ where there is much better riding, more freedom and less nannies watching over you. Out here i wave to law enforcement and we both wish each other a nice day.
Shorten this a bit and send it to the local state reps, county reps, and congressman. Ask for support and an official review of the public access issue. Perhaps a specific recreational designation. Get some guys to collect signatures at the local trails and include that in letters to the reps.
San Diego needs a stronger MTB association backed by major bike brands. Specialized has a north county shop now, they could help majorly in financial backing. Ultimately people don't want to support or spend their time digging XC trails at PQ or jumpless old hiking trails with some pavers and a few rocks covered with dirt as berms. Instead of trying to maintain access to mix use trail networks where problems will always occur, which are not purpose built for MTB.. They should be trying to secure a piece of land from one or two cities that is MTB ONLY, get a budget, and hire professional builders to do them. This happens all over the PNW and why their networks are SOO good.
San Diego would have stronger MTB association if we gave it more support. That support would lure bigger sponsors.
@@outdoorsandiego No doubt about it but in order to attract people you need to give them a vision they can agree with. I'm not putting my time or money into keeping our current trails in running order. They aren't even mountain bike trails. They are almost ALL hiking and mix use trails. Hell is there even ONE jumpline they maintain? Come with a vision, promote it, you'll get the support you want.
@teraengineering8239 sadly that's not actually how it works. Once a property is designated a Reserve it takes an act of God or a $hit ton of $$$ to create a Land swap.
@calaveratrails6787 elected representatives have a lot more influence than you might think. If they see momentum and public interest in a project, they can can get quite a bit done by simply requesting information from the appropriate agency.
Hmmmm I moved down to vista last year and started riding my mtb there almost every weekend and have never been told it’s closed to bikes
There are signs at the Sage creek school entrance and at the top of the hill from the lake entrance.
The closure really hasn't stopped the mountain biking on the reserve, but it has stopped a lot of trail maintenance efforts that would help to improve the spot, both environmentally and as a recreation spot
good video. I have been saying that about membership in SDMBA forever. I am a long time member in IMBA and SDMBA. Most mountain bikers in San Diego are pretty entitled and don't think through the facts of political action. They literally say things like SDMBA just wants manicured kitty litter trails. They just don't get the struggle. I rode Calaveras from 2003ish to 2018ish. Everyone with ADD, blind optimism a shovel and a dream was building there at the end. People were cutting new track across old tracks. Blind jumps over trails and cutting any climbing out they could. Cheeter line galore. They shot themselves in the foot. Yes they got rangers in Calaveras. Someone was worried about the endangered humping ridgeback toad and they complained and complained and complained.....And guess how many people belong to the local sierra club or audobon society, a lot more than 1800. I see this same fate befalling my next most liked local place because the trails are in a grey area. Grey areas stay grey until someone gets pissed or someone retires. God forbid you say that is poorly thought out building or why build when there are 30 trails in heavy neglect. Does not matter the YT Mob needs to get footy or local Instagram pro needs a line to jerk the ego. I don't care if they are a grey area. Fly under the radar or expect to get shutdown eventually. There is another spot in the area with a trailboss that does not condone anyone doing anything. Though he is a bit out of his mind he does stop reckless building ( of course he also stops improvements he does not like). The riders at Calaveras could have gotten together and policed themselves - it would have been hard because if I have a shovel and a dream to build on this illegal trail then who are you to stop me. But they could have done that. There is no place I can think of that I ride that does not have its days numbered. Grey area or not there's a few million people out there who want McMansions and that just squeezes more people into more trails. Just cause XYZ trail has been there for 20 years everyone thinks it wont go? It will, could be 1 year could be 20 but the day will come. That goes for all other grey areas.
I called out someone on IG recently for posting on a grey area ride spot. This person was calling the spot a bike park with the name of the area. It is not a bike park. Its a grey area. Someone actually said that "they did not see this place getting overrun because there were too many other place close by that are popular" Short sighted. When you've watch this story for 30 yeas like I have you know it a long game. 1 Fire, law suit or irate tree hugger is all it takes because the pressure just builds with more houses and more people. Flight line went and everyone showed up at Calavera. Take that scenario to some other spots. Greer?
It’s unclear what you are saying about Greer? It is however a great example of how illegal trail systems can take care of the land. It’s clean, animals thrive there, and there’s only one builder aside from the people not getting it and doing minor stuff but that gets shut down pretty quick.
@birdsandtrees just commenting that if that gets closed that is a lot of displaced users . Where will those people go. Just to the next grey area area......
@@justinb8642 got it. You are completely correct.
One trip to Washington and you'll see the difference in their mtb trail associations. Name one spot in southern CA that's like Galbraith, (One of probably 20 mountains that have MTB specific trail use) There wouldn't be such a need for unsanctioned trail networks if there we a few designated spots that were professionally built.. but alas...
Miss that place, it was great in 2017. I’m ready to look for greener pastures.
Thanks for the video
That's a bummer to hear. I feel like mountain bike options in San Diego are already very limited. I myself invested in a fat tire bike just so I could bike out in the desert on off-road trails. There are great spots out near jacumba if you don't mind hills and a little hike-a-bike.
We have more options than you'd think. The problem is most of them are gray area riding spots. We Are One land manager or when land swap away from losing just about every good riding spot in San Diego
I used to love riding out there.....
I think everyone in North County has a soft spot for Calavera. One of my first rides back on a mountain bike after 20 plus year hiatus was at Calavera.
run for the open director job!
same crap there doing to Dirt bike trails Coral Canyon they took all good trails and limit rider area same crap hate Cali for that moving to UTAH
Shhhhh. Nothing to see here. There are no trails on CHER...
Agreed. I've never seen a rideable trail there...
Its been 15 YEARS since SD MTB Assoc has produced even a single MILE of new trail in San Diego county. Zero new trails for SD county for over a DECADE and yet other counties throughout California have miles and miles of new trails. And we've had massive increase of new riders and yet ZERO new trails for those riders. What is the purpose of SDMBA?? Perhaps revenue and salary for 3 people that run it? Everyone needs to STOP membership renewal until we get new trails!!
It’s called money laundering….
@@J2XJ there's 1800 members what the hell are they supposed to do with that kind of support. Before you get heat from a fire you'll be surprised to hear you have to put wood in
Here is a list if trails that SDMBA has built or assisted in building:
Cold Spring Trail, Cuyamaca State Park
-Appendix Trail PQ
-Barrel roll PQ
-Tony’s Way, Pacific Highlands Ranch
-Crestridge trails in Crest
-black mountain - Black widow, night hawk connector, little black, roadrunner, ahwee trail, lilac
@@outdoorsandiego To be fair most of those trails were already existing and they did renovations on it and added proper irrigation etc..
San Diego and SoCal faces multiple issues that makes it hard enough to keep our current trails, let alone build new trails. Do you know any land manager in San Diego that would be OK with a 20ft gap jumpline? How about a trail with sketchy tech features and a 15 ft near vertical rock roll? I know that's what we want to ride as modern mountain bikers, but I just don't see that happening. The SDMBA is doing the best they can with the cards they are dealt
Increase tickets to $750 and impound the bike of anyone riding on the hiking trails.
If you are hiking on CNLM land at Calavera anywhere other than the fireroads, that trail was most likely cut by a mountain biker, or possibly a Moto rider way back in the day.
This should not be an us vs. them situation. We could have all worked together to improve the reserve and allow for responsible recreation, but the current designation makes that impossible, and the land is worse off for it.
@zorrofox8950 there are no "legal" hiking trails on this property, ok, just one fire road that runs East/West across the property. Nothing on the Volcano or any other single track is technically designated as a trail. However CDFW will NEVER enforce use rules against hikers due to the true PR $hit storm it would cause them.
Or maybe you shutin the hell up, no tickets, and no impounding of bikes.
@zorrofox8950 OK Karen!
theres easily enough space and parking to accomodate everyone. its just nimbys and whiners that ruined it. this place was awesome back in the day. whenever i visit theres noone there and its just an overgrown rutted mess of brush and the whiners arent even using it @outdoorsandiego