Blind Hearing Test - Pipe Organ vs. Digital Organ
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Hosted by Hamish Ogston CBE at St. Giles' Cripplegate Church in London on July 26th 2018, a group of individuals were invited down to see if they could tell the difference between the sound of a pipe organ and a digital organ.
Participants were blindfolded, then asked to listen to pieces of music performed by Professor Ian Tracy, Organist Titulaire of Liverpool Cathedral, on both a 15 stop Mander pipe organ and a 20 stop Makin Rydal digital organ before casting their vote to see if the human ear could tell the difference between the two.
Following interesting results from the group, Hamish Ogston CBE speaks about the economics of a pipe organ compared to a digital organ and his plans for promoting digital organ use in churches around the country.
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On real organ you can clearly hear the tracker action, the air striking the pipes, the beautiful organic sound of every pipe, the unique colour of that particular instrument. Digital organs have become excelent over the past couple of decades, but there's a reason mechanical organs are still being made today. Nothing digital compares to real sound of an organ, even if a real organ was recorded for digital organ's sample set, the microphones and speakers still make the sound different than the real thing.
Digital organs, Allen Quantum, work very well. Regardless of the brand you can not just drop them in a space. They need to be regulated to sound best. Beauty is you can combine the digital if you desire to keep a few ranks of pipes.
😊
@pavaomrazek, You said organic 😊😁
First of all, they are not tuned the same way (this is very apparent in the transition between the two at 4:07, seems like the digital one is tuned lower). And seems neither of them is tuned in Equal temperament 440Hz. And secondly, the real organ has all kinds of tiny little imperfections in the sound (like i.e some pipes are slightly out of tune), which makes it sound real (but not neccecarily any better). I have to say I’m actually quite impressed over the digital one. But then again, listening on youtube probably not make this any justise as listening to a real pipeorgan (and literally feel the room shaking of the sound) and listening to it on headphones are two completely different worlds. Cheers
I can tell there is a big difference! The pipe organ sounds real! It has life in it
The electronic organ has no life let alone value. It wont last more than 10 to 30 years give or take. The sound of tbe pipe organ is multi demetional! The electronic irgan has that beam affect.
Although, I think digital organs are a real gift for organists at home and in other locations! I would rather a good digital organ than no organ! Not everyone has hundreds of thousands to spare! In fact, the digital organ is making the organ and it’s music more accessible than it has ever been! Moreover, digital organs sound better in homes and are less limiting than home organs!
Regulation of the digital is key to the space it’s in. Part of the regulation is you can “ adjust “ how the manuals respond. Are pile organs still nice, sure but Digital from top manufactures also do a very good job .
Judging by the age of the contestants, they are certainly to have lost the highest partials of the hearing spectrum. This would make it difficult to judge, as many of the intricate details of sound would be mute. It also depends on WHICH digital organ you are talking about. Some produce sounds by reproducing actual recordings of organ pipes, others, mostly older digital, replicate the sounds by tone modulation in the computer itself.
The pipe organ costs 450,000 pounds up front. The interest alone on that money will buy a new digital organ every year and the digital organs will improve over time. The economics are overwhelmingly in favor of the digital organ, which while slightly inferior to the pipe organ is good enough for all but the most discriminating listener.
In the mid-80s, Howard Goodall conducted a similar blind test with music students, pipe sound versus digital. Even then it was no doddle differentiating 'twixt the twain, leaving some embarrassed faces of those who felt they wouldn't screw up! Modern sample sets are so good that they even have some of the chuffing and tracker clatter if emulating an older mechanical organ. It is a sweeping statement to claim it is easy to tell the difference. Listen to Andre van Vliet playing the great Hinsz organ of Kampen then one of the larger Johannus digitals and you'd be hard pressed to tell if you didn't know beforehand, even if you're an organ buff.
but the sound is dead. real pipes are living. that's why organs are from the same word as the organs in your body .. organum.
One can clearly hear speaker colouration when the digital organ is being played; this does not arise for the pipe organ.
Coloration?
Why won’t he mention brand names?! Be great to know what it was we need to look for! Fabulous playing and sounds! I’d really like more information on the types of organs as I’d like to buy one
The digital organ is a Makin Rydal 2-20T, the pipe organ was built by Mander Organs.
Specification : mander-organs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/stgiles_without_spec.pdf
That's the pipe organ Rick Wakeman played Close To The Edge on.
The deeper sounding 32 footers give it away. A pipe organ will REALLY rumble and shake the ground, where as a Digital Organ with Replica 32 footers can unfortunately make the subwoofer sound like it's on the brink of giving out.
It is easy to hear the difference. The pipe organ is much clearer and lively sound. The digital organ sounds "boxy".
Why were all the listeners in their 80s? That's well past the point when presbycusis renders a great deal of high-frequency information inaudible, the kind of thing that would make this task much more reliable. I wonder if they were even musical? As the pipe organ was clearly slightly out of tune that's a complete giveaway surely for starters.
They all knew that it was the pipe organ first because they know where it is in the building as compared to the electric organ. So there's the difference right there!
Rosy’s voice is soothing
The Digital Organ is really a bigger version of the Transistor Organ.
What brand of digital Organ is this?
Makin Organs
Model is Rydal 2-20T
Although an average person may not be able to hear any difference, a skilled organist can readily identify that the digital organ is inferior.
🙂🙂🙂 Disagree, I know organist who have played for decades, yes they think like organs are very good but the have as
So embraced current digital from Allen and Rodgers, but spent time having them regulated to the space. Regulation and speaker placement are key. It takes experience of the organist and tech spending a lot of time fine tuning each stop and other factors.😊
Disagree. Moving-diaphragm speakers (i.e. cone speakers) are the weak link, wherever they are placed. There is Doppler shift associate with cone/diaphragm motion that cause harmonic distortion, especially at high volumes where pipe organs are supposed to sound the most impressive. Skilled staff may be able to partially mask the effects of harmonic distortion, but will not be able to eliminate it. Pipe organs do not significantly suffer Doppler harmonic distortions because their pipes are stationary in space when making their respective sounds. @@brianglock3099
I think it should be " deaf" comparison...you'd have to be to not hear the difference
Please what songs did he play
He played tunes.
they are not specialised. Of course you can hear the difference directly...
Very obvious. The electronic organ sounds horrible as always
Definitely not horrible but yes it's obvious
This is a very very poor electronic organ. Ghastly.
The digital organ appears awful; its casework looks like cheap veneered chipbaord.
Snobbery at it's best. Most churches would struggle to afford the electric organ. Even cathedrals have electric organs now because pipe organs are so expensive to purchase and maintain. This is the real world nowadays, whether we like it or not and it's getting better all the time.
@@nickinman4966 Cheaper to have a CD or MP3 player coupled to a hifi sound system, with pre-recorded hymns and organ voluntaries; this saves the organist's fee as well.
@@thewiseperson8748 For a "wise person" you clearly don't understand the value of LIVE music :)
@@nickinman4966 You do not understand the benefit of pre-recorded music for small parishes that are economically challenged and do not have the services of an organist.
You could have played anything and you played 565. Cringe
... and too fast.
Why is that piece ‘cringe’? 🤷🏻♂️
@@Knappa22 cliche and way overplayed its just an eye roll. Not quite the fugue but the toccata for sure
@@SoggySandwich80 Seems a rather snooty stance to me. He wasn’t playing in concert. He was playing something well known so the listeners could easily compare the two organs.