The Physical Meaning of the Cross Product and Dot Product

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 91

  • @dialectphilosophy
    @dialectphilosophy 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +39

    Teaching the cross product through torque is a pretty smart way to go about it! Torque is (for the most part) fairly intuitive -- you have to push orthogonally to some lever or bar to rotate it about a pivot point, so that explains why you have y components multiplied by x components and vice-versa. The "minus" seems to come from the fact a rotation can be split into an "up and over" (counter-clockwise) or an "over and down" (clockwise) motion, which requires the moving components be oppositely signed. Still always some frustrating sense of abstraction that seems to linger when we use vectors, but that's hard to avoid. Thanks for another great video!

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      I really appreciate it! A comment I would make is that my goal in my explanation videos is not to reduce abstraction nor to make things intuitive. Abstractions are not bad or hard to understand if all the observations and reasoning steps required to see that they are true are explained. Similarly, intuitions are not something we should try to appeal to, because they aren't necessarily correct. I think "making things intuitive," or, "less abstract," are approximations for what we really need in an explanation: a complete connection to observational evidence.

  • @ryanjbuchanan
    @ryanjbuchanan 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    The best explanation of a dot product that I've heard is that it's basically like a Mario Kart turbo boost

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Let's a-go!

    • @user-lu6yg3vk9z
      @user-lu6yg3vk9z หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Inducticareal question is why people who are going into healthcare have to learn this?

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@user-lu6yg3vk9z I'm not sure, but it probably relates to government involvement in education.
      For a healthcare professional getting an advanced degree, like his MD, there is a decent argument that he should learn advanced mathematics to train his mind to think in a systematic, disciplined way.

    • @romado59
      @romado59 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@user-lu6yg3vk9z If your a tech in MRIs or Pets scan you might need give you some understanding?

  • @Li.Siyuan
    @Li.Siyuan 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Spoiled by not mentioning the significance of the i hat, j hat and k hat components in the solution to the cross product formulae. Shame.

    • @MechLearn-360
      @MechLearn-360 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That's nothing, it just a notation for writing vectors. If is typed then you bold it rather.

    • @krelly90277
      @krelly90277 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      There's a type of person who has to complain about everything. The video is well-done, but this commenter has to complain. Instead of complaining, make the video you want.

  • @hrishikeshaggrawal
    @hrishikeshaggrawal 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    cross product makes sense intuitively, but when I ask someone for the n'th time what the cross product is and they start explaining the formula i really do go to sleep. 10/10 direction

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You are exactly the kind of person I was trying to reach with this video. Thanks!

  • @kisho2679
    @kisho2679 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    When/where were first the cross/dot products "invented"?

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good question, I actually don't know!

    • @andrewseary
      @andrewseary 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Inductica Quaternions. See "A History of Vector Analysis", Crowe

  • @bpark10001
    @bpark10001 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    What you (& everyone else explaining this) are missing is WHERE the name "cross product" comes from.
    I ran into this when helping guy write CAD circuit board layout program. There is requirement to calculate the distance between a point (X,Y) & a line segment (X1,Y1), (X2, Y2). The calculation boils down to translating everything until one end of the line is at (0,0), then taking cross product of vectors (0,0) (X2',Y2') & (0,0) (X',Y'). These form angle which when extended form a parallelogram. The distance is the height of the parallelogram, which is the area divided by the base (the base is SQRT of dot product of line vector with itself). The area is the cross product of the 2 vectors (Result is scalar because we are working in the plane.)
    (So you can also describe the cross product as the area of a parallelogram formed by the 2 vectors in plane containing the 2 vectors.)
    When I worked out this formula, the terms have X1Y2 & X2Y1 in them (as your formula also shows). THE PRODUCT TERMS ARE CROSSED! This is my theory where the name came from. What do you think?

  • @scienceclick9092
    @scienceclick9092 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Nowadays, learning mathematical physics depends a lot on books. In some books the way a law/formula is derived that it seems really tough to understand. When I first learned about vectors from book I was fully confused. But when I changed book it was not so difficult for me to understand. The proof of theories are written in such a way that you dont have to be a very high IQ person to understand it on that book. While in the first book it was really really tough to understand. So books are my first priority to learn mathematics for physics

  • @allenanderson5529
    @allenanderson5529 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    The cross product is the determinant of a 3x3 matrix, where row 1 is x-hat, y-hat, z-hat. Row 2 is Ax, Ay, Az. Row 3 is Bx, By, Bz.

    • @tomctutor
      @tomctutor 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes that's a very good way to remember it.
      The dot product is simply A⁺ B where A⁺ means transpose matrix. (A vector is simply a column nX1 matrix remember). This pictorially looks like..⍈ ⍗.
      The matrix representation allows easy change of basis (we do not need to stick to *i,j,k* thing) and can compute the result.
      We can further determine vector triple products and scalar triple products with ease using matrices.

  • @markszlazak
    @markszlazak 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Yours is a description or definition as opposed to a real derivation which you won’t find in math of physics books unless you know where to look. Cross products and the rest come from quaternions which were then simplified to vectors and their operators. Quaternions are complicated (see Eater and 3blue2brown Visualizing Quaternions) but recently there was a derivation of the dot and more complicated cross product from a linear combination of vectors that was published in 2018.
    "The linear combination of vectors implies the existence of the cross and dot products" by Jose Pujol. International Journal of Mathematical Education in Science and Technology Volume 49, 2018 - Issue 5.

  • @perseus4hire210
    @perseus4hire210 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If rxFy and ryFx are both producing torque in the negative z direction, why is one subtracted from the other? Also, what is the significance of the negative sign for the 'j' vector?

  • @hansfrancsco71
    @hansfrancsco71 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Is there like a book that would help learn k-12 mathematics conceptually instead of rote memorization from government schooling?

    • @ryantellez2871
      @ryantellez2871 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Mathnasium is pretty good if you want to homeschool a kid.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The Singapore method and the Japanese method are really good for the early years. The Japanese method is more inductive, but that might only work when you have an actual teacher trained in their school system; the Singapore method might be better if you are just teaching yourself out of a book (less inductive though) I would sample both if I were you. Neither are perfectly inductive.

  • @rainerzufall42
    @rainerzufall42 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Oh, I've almost expected Quaternions, but that would be longer than 16:35...

  • @stanbleszynski8825
    @stanbleszynski8825 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Dot products and cross products are two components of general vector product representing superposition of operators in Clifford algebra.

  • @AlbertTheGamer-gk7sn
    @AlbertTheGamer-gk7sn 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The dot product is also used in matrix multiplication. Vector dot products is equal to multiplying a row matrix by a column matrix. For example, ∙ = [[1, 2]] * [[5], [7]] = 5+14=19. Dot products are derived from projections, where proj(a, b) = [(a ∙ b)/(b ∙ b)]*|b|. Cross products, however, comes from the cross-operation sequence. The cross operation involves taking a vector or a group of vectors and outputting a vector that is orthogonal to all vectors being used. For example, a vector in 2D can be crossed to find its perpendicular vector, which proves the perpendicular slope formula, and vectors in 3D can have cross products with 2 vectors, vectors in 4D with 3 vectors, and so on. Area can be interpreted by a cross product of 2 length vectors, as A = bh, with b being a length vector and h being the perpendicular component of the second length vector. Volume can be interpreted by using 3 vectors and using the 4D cross product, as V = Bh, where B is the area of the base, a cross product itself, and h being a perpendicular component of the third vector, so V = Bh = (r ⨉ r)h r ⨉ r ⨉ r (as h = r⊥), but in our 3D world, volume can also mean the DOT product of length and area, due to the box product. Finally, comes the interpretation of cross products in Flatland. We all know that in Flatland, angles exist, so rotations exist. 2D shapes and planar laminae have rotational inertia, so angular momentum and torque exists in Flatland, but since Flatlanders cannot really see the objects rotating due to a 1D vision, they usually don't think about torque, as the torque will be bending into the 3rd dimension. We 3D beings can see objects rotate about an axis, but we cannot interpret solid angular motion. This is because solid angular momentum is changed by 3-torque, which is equal to r ⨉ A ⨉ F, which goes into the 4th dimension. However, 4D beings can comprehend solid angular velocity and objects rotating about a plane rather than an axis. Finally, comes the 2nd moment of area, which is equal to A ⨉ A, or (r ⨉ r) ⨉ (r ⨉ r). This requires 6 dimensions, as the first cross product gives 3 dimensions, and the second gives 3 more dimensions.

    • @EnriqueAnt.Raudales
      @EnriqueAnt.Raudales 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      thank you. The lack of linear algebra in this video was annoying, and i still do t unferstand the connection between the angles shown in the generalized form and the way the operacions are done between column vectors or taking the discriminant of a group of vectors put together

    • @tomctutor
      @tomctutor 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@EnriqueAnt.Raudales That is why Linear Algebra is such a rich source of information. We think of spaces made up of groups of vectors, the algebra defines how we can manipulate these spaces to get answers to otherwise intractible problems,e.g. as mentioned in ATG's post. Can use Linear Algebra methods to work in other number-fields like complex spaces and so on. Not so academic as used a lot in Electrical Engineering, Quantum Mechanics, Relativity to name a few.

  • @BuckPowers
    @BuckPowers 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Loving the humor bits. Just the right amount. And nice editing for those bits, as well. Humor can easily die in a bad edit. But you nailed it.
    This content also dovetails well with the angular momentum lecture. Including some portion of this as a sidebar might even make that lecture more effective.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thank you very much!

  • @zyansheep
    @zyansheep 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Dot Product + Cross Product = Geometric Product

    • @tomctutor
      @tomctutor 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thinking outa the box, scalar + vector =?
      You might try ( AB= A.B + iAxB, imaginary 'i' here) this is actually used in relativistic mechanics as it can be shown that
      |AB| = √{(A.B)² - |AxB|²}

  • @gary.richardson
    @gary.richardson 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    In track and field, runners time based on distance also accounts for headwinds and tailwinds.
    I imagine these dot products come into play here.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, I think it would.

  • @heronimousbrapson863
    @heronimousbrapson863 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Mathematics: how to make simple concepts horrifically complicated.

    • @bradleygaddis5155
      @bradleygaddis5155 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Right on, as I like to say they really enjoy keeping the club small

  • @Serghey_83
    @Serghey_83 หลายเดือนก่อน

    (·) product - скалярное произведение
    (×) product - векторное произведение

  • @oversquare6625
    @oversquare6625 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Stop - you are hurting my head. At 1:54 you show F*Cos*D, but you say F*D*Cos, then at 2:24 you show F*D*Cos and correlate it to A*B*Cos which is algrabracially parallel to D*F*Cos. While sure this is a commutative property of multiplication, it turns your example into a conceptual train wreck. Did you see what I did there? its a train joke. But seriously, it needlessly confuses an otherwise simple idea.

  • @timothyjohnson1511
    @timothyjohnson1511 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Vortrix algebra used to describe Etheral Mechanics by Robert Distinti overcomes weaknesses of the Cross and Dot Product.

  • @jnhrtmn
    @jnhrtmn 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Cross product works analogously for torque AFTER a right-hand rule, so everything after a right hand rule is void of any mechanism. Maxwell's equations use a cross product between electricity and magnetism, which means no one understands anything mechanically between those two. Modern science is happy merely describing what they see it do. "The wheels on the bus go round and round." This song describes everything you see a bus do exactly like math does, but you certainly can't claim to understand the bus with that "description," and an accurate analogy can be completely fake making fools out of lots of people. The variables in gravity math are not causal, and that's clue #1 to the Universe. Look at my gyro explanation to see what causality looks like.

  • @jimmonroe5801
    @jimmonroe5801 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The wedge product is superior to the cross product in every possible way. Why the wedge product is not taught boggles my mind.

  • @РайанКупер-э4о
    @РайанКупер-э4о 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Instead of the cross product you should really use the geometric product and the bivectors from the geometric algebra. Also bivector lies in the plain of the rotation, not in some random axis.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It would be interesting to know the physical meaning of those concepts of in geometric algebra, but the cross-product has a straightforward physical meaning that we can hold in mind to understand it, and it works for many applications. We don't need something fancy in cases where something simple will suffice.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      And part of my point is that the cross-product does not lie in a random direction, it lies along the axis of rotation!

    • @РайанКупер-э4о
      @РайанКупер-э4о 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Inductica, geometric algebra isn't fancy. It's straight forward and intuitive. The multivectors are so good you can do calculus directly with them. The torque bivector that we will get by multiplying the r with the F will be numerically same as the vector that we will get with the cross product but it will have so much better and useful algebraic properties that after using it once you will never use cross product again. The geometric algebra is just so good you need to try it and you will love it. There are a swift introduction to it on TH-cam, it's short and it presents you with applications, in the end you'll see how Maxwell equations become just one simple differential equation with one differential operator and two multivectors and it is computable in this form it will blow your mind how easy all the math becomes.

    • @РайанКупер-э4о
      @РайанКупер-э4о 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Inductica, I know that cross product lies on the axis of rotation, I know how it works, I've learned it in school and uni. You don't have axis of rotation in 2 or 4 dimensions. But you'll always have the plain of rotation in any number of dimensions where rotation is possible. That's why that the object describing rotation should line in the plane of rotation and not on the axis of rotation and that's what bivectors give you. Bivector is a part of a plane that has area and sign same way as a vector is a part of a line with length and sign. This works so well you'll love it, please look into it.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@РайанКупер-э4о That's very interesting! I've watched the swift introduction and found it interesting. Perhaps one day I'll do my own video on it if I find it to be essential to my project. Thanks for telling me about it!

  • @alphalunamare
    @alphalunamare 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    7:35 This is briliant :-) I'd make it easier to understand though and label i^ as x^, j^ as y^ and k^ as z^.

  • @bjornfeuerbacher5514
    @bjornfeuerbacher5514 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The explanation starting at 4:00 is a bit similar to the one I'm using when I'm teaching this, but simpler - I'll try if I can incorporate this into my own teaching, thanks! :) (My own way of doing it goes like this: first I argue, using the angle formula, that for two parallel vectors, the dot product just gives the product of their magnitudes, and for two orthogonal vectors, the dot product is zero. Then I decompose the vectors A and B into their components along the axes, similar to what you are doing, and then simply multiply out the two sums and use the facts I showed before in order to calculate the dot products of the coordinate vectors with each other.)
    However, a crucial step is missing here: For that argument to work, you first have to show (or at least give an argument in words) why the dot product is distributive, i. e. why the dot product of a sum of vectors with another vector is the same as the sum of all the dot products of the partial vectors with the other vector. I tried to gave an argument for that in my own lectures, but unfortunately, it's in German. Would you like to have a link to that argument anyway?

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That's a good point. I did think about that while writing the script and decided I didn't need to explain that, but revisiting this, I think I do. Yeah, let's see that video!

    • @bjornfeuerbacher5514
      @bjornfeuerbacher5514 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Inductica I don't have a video, only a text document. I try to provide the link, but probably TH-cam will delete it. :/
      www.feuerbachers-matheseite.de/Eigenschaften_des_Skalarprodukts.pdf

  • @dinsefateshome8412
    @dinsefateshome8412 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    welcome back boss

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks chief!

  • @munchingdragon6
    @munchingdragon6 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    this was fun to watch!

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks!

  • @kptib1988
    @kptib1988 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    sticking the middle finger.. in the F direction..

  • @pixelapse9613
    @pixelapse9613 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    5:05 How my math teacher teaches in class using power point

  • @spelunkerd
    @spelunkerd หลายเดือนก่อน

    Outstanding review!

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks!

  • @kottybeats
    @kottybeats 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Good explanation, well done

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you very much!

  • @aek03030731
    @aek03030731 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Why is it called the dot product? Also, the only cross product I remember is used in comparing fractions.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@aek03030731 These are concepts which are covered in a 3rd semester calculus class.

  • @jeanlucas2834
    @jeanlucas2834 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I've never seen it like this before, even in books. Thank you! Make more videos like this.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks! My inductive videos, which will begin in two weeks, will explain every concept of math and physics in this kind of way!

    • @xninja2369
      @xninja2369 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Tell me you haven't read any books without telling me you haven't read any books 😂

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@xninja2369 i’d be interested to know which textbook actually explains the cross product in the way I do. Not trying to nail you, just actually curious. I checked pretty thoroughly to make sure there wasn’t another video that explained it this way before making this.

    • @jeanlucas2834
      @jeanlucas2834 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@xninja2369 Haha good one 😂. I mean, learning physics by operational definition is easy but it's not the physics you want, is it? In my opinion we constantly need to innovated and find new connections between things we already know. A lot of mathematical tools that were created without any practical applications have found a place in physics because someone tried to explain something differently and it worked, that is awesome. Oh boy, you just don't know me. But read isn't enough. We read novels but books like these we have to study, practice and apply or you're wasting your time. If you are here I believe you think books sometimes isn't enough, because by the end of the day the books were made by professors like him.

  • @sinfinite7516
    @sinfinite7516 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video!!!!

  • @cleison-em7bk
    @cleison-em7bk 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Its only a physics example . Main idea i guess is when a thing(vector of any physical variable) gets maximum or 0 , with cross or dot product

  • @antomarioni
    @antomarioni 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    muy buen video, muchisimas gracias

  • @poet.in.flight
    @poet.in.flight 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Such a fun video 🎉

  • @Serghey_83
    @Serghey_83 หลายเดือนก่อน

    У тебя 100% - ная эталонная дикция. Отчётливо слышно каждое слово. Для изучающих американский английский это идеальный вариант.

  • @anirbanmukhopadhyay6902
    @anirbanmukhopadhyay6902 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A beautiful explanation of the dot product is here. Thank you.

  • @solapowsj25
    @solapowsj25 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Collide dot products and charge cross ❌products.

  • @nitinjain1605
    @nitinjain1605 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks a lot ... Very intuitive ... I always had issue with cross produc, why someone came up with such a weird type of product but it makes sense now ... while watching your video I was able to imagine and understand the crux behind Cross product as well as Dot products ...

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you! I should mention though that my purpose was not to appeal to intuition, but rather to show you the actual evidence behind the concept. Once you see the evidence behind an idea, you might find it intuitive and simple to understand, but the real goal is to connect these ideas to reality, not just to make it feel natural.

  • @gabe-d8u
    @gabe-d8u หลายเดือนก่อน

    question: where does the minus in the equation at 13:36 come from?

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good question, it comes from the fact that if Fx is positive, and rx is positive, then the torque produced by that force across that arm will be negative (into the screen.)

    • @ScienceReDiscovered
      @ScienceReDiscovered หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@Inductica But why? Two positives make a negative?

    • @ScienceReDiscovered
      @ScienceReDiscovered หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@Inductica5:57 Does the door go up or down?

  • @sinfinite7516
    @sinfinite7516 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hmm I’m looking at the rest of your channel and I wish you did more content like this.

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@sinfinite7516 noted!

  • @ricshaw4358
    @ricshaw4358 หลายเดือนก่อน

    excellent explanation

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks!

  • @bernardofitzpatrick5403
    @bernardofitzpatrick5403 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    😂 nice one ! Subd

    • @Inductica
      @Inductica  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@bernardofitzpatrick5403 thanks!