Correction: at the time Spelljammer came out a round was not 6 seconds long, it was 1 minute long. Thus a turn (which was 10 minutes long, as you say) was 10 rounds. It wasn't until the Player's Option and DM's Option books came out that a round was shortened from 1 minute (although even then it wasn't reduced to 6 seconds yet, but was rather described as "about 10 to 15 seconds"), and by that time Spelljammer had been discontinued for some time.
@@Jorphdan no problem, it's one of the weird things that makes things from 1e and 2e not quite translate as directly as you'd think (although most of the time it makes no difference to how the game plays)
I want to clarify that the operators of spelljamming helms are also sometimes referred to as spelljammers. So, spelljammers spelljam their spelljammers to the Spelljammer in Spelljammer.
My Lich captain had a fouled atmosphere at all times. Undead crew do not need it. Share the same hex = share the same atmosphere. Toxic hello. Negatives to all our prey.
Since we're running a weekly 5e Spelljammer campaign, I've read the manuals that explain this so many times. And this is BY FAR the best explanation I've how it all works, that I've come across. I learned a bunch from this!
I Loved hearing you explain the old THACO vs AC scores like a grade school teacher to a class. As I was in grade school when I learned it and wish someone had explained it like that to me at the time.
Spelljammer was one of the first published campaign settings I played in when I started playing AD&D 2E back in 1991. I am currently playing in a 5E campaign that uses Spelljammer ships and Wildspace frequently. I am really enjoying these videos Jorphdan!
I played AD&D back in the day and from what i remember, your use of THAC0 looks right to me. I had a campaign that went into Spelljammer after I randomly bought the box set on clearance at a book store, and we loved it. We adapted it into 3e and then 3.5e and haven't played anything newer since. We were happy with it and our Epic level settings in space. My favorite character was a Favored Soul that traveled through the stars became a god.
Just FYI Dungeon Magazine Issue #92 did a update from 2nd edition to 3rd edition for spelljammer, which may be easier to update to a 5th edition rules. The issue has updated rules for spelljammer combat, ship stats, planets, feats, skills, and prestige classes. I really like the elven Arrowing class spelljammer ship.
I can't wait for Spell Jammer come to 5e! So overdue! And I'm pretty sure its pronounced thay ko. Thats how we said it for a 20 years anyway. Thacko sounds so harsh lol
Last time I checked I still had an Oger Mammoth in dry dock Repair/rebuild at 81 hull points of the 90 max. Mostly original gear with 3 +2 heavy ballista. Helm not included.
Ahh, the memories of running Spelljammer combat scenarios late into the night with my friends. My personal favorite trick was the clipper bombard broadside. If you didn't have that kind of broadside, your best option was typically ramming. Re: three-dimensional space -- if there's only two ships they'll always share a common plane, so combat between the two will always effectively be in a two-dimensional space. (And if they both have 360-degree firing arc, the relationship between the two of them can be abstracted down to a single dimension.)
Just hearing someone say THAC0. Find memories. I was playing ADD when it was brand new! We tried SpellJammer. The truth is just about the same time, the godfall. Time of Troubles, we couldn't spare a single night sailing the stars with the actual gods running about in the land! The time of troubles was all encompassing. Our characters were following in the footsteps of mortals about to become gods. This would have gone a lot better if they would have adjusted their timing. Thank you for the smile you have given me
@@DStrormer www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=2 is one of the larger groups, but the real thing I would suggest you do from there if you want to find out about all the different groups is get in touch with "big mac" from those forums. I know he's in touch with a lot of different spelljammer fan groups.
Really loving the dive into SpellJammer! I've wanted to play in this setting since it was released, when I was a kid. Your videos have inspired me to brew a campaign in the SpellJammer setting and hopefully I can get my group onboard!
I still DM a 2E game. You got the Thac0 right. Thac0 - AC = Die roll needed to hit. But for initiative, you roll a d10, and the lower number goes first.
When you wake up in a dark cage with a dark elf guard unlocking the door to drag you out ....I can understand why you as a player think ok Underdark ... Menzoberanzan or something..... But the guard grabs you and drags you out of the dark cage and up the stairs to the door. Kicking it open he tosses you out onto the deck of this Dark Elf Man O War. The light from the stars dazzles your eyes as a large black skinned Orc walks up to you. Asking in perfect High Elven with accent " Will you serve as crew or be tossed into the void?" As he gestures over his shoulder at 2 more of the biggest nasties black skinned orcs Bigger than any orcs you have ever seen toss your Legion Commander screaming over the rail.
Very engaging description. However, given how gravity works in Spelljammer, the Legion Commander would simply bob up and down next to the ship. However, the captives likely don't know this, so it'd still be effective. Plus, the LC would be stuck near the ship until someone lassoed him to reel him back in. Come to think of it, the whole situation would be so disorienting to the captives that they'd likely be quite demoralized.
@@tomkerruish2982 Not entirely correct. While they would "bob" back and forth through gravity plane, it wouldn't slow their horizontal movement. They basically follow a sine wave path to the edge of the air envelope and then float off into wild space.
@@Tzimisce True. I hadn't considered there being a horizontal component to the velocity. That certainly can add to the adventure. "Surrender, or we'll simply let your commander drift off into space. The choice is yours."
@@tomkerruish2982 All well as the ship moves on and when the air bubbles reach the edges the sound of his cries will stop. instantly. No worries the Scavvers that follow the ship will enjoy the food.
I wonder what others think of the war machine/siege machine rules from basic. They have pretty good large scale combat rules for ships, including those that can fly. I used a modified version to fight the 2nd Unhuman war and the players loved it!
This was good refresher. I am looking for ways to expand the new 5e Spelljammer combat experience. I forgot how much the 2e base rules influenced combat in ship to ship, like the the inclusion of flight maneuvering in 2e Spelljammer. Probably the #1 reason there is less rules presented in the 5e reintroduction... there is simply less rules in 5e to be addressed to bring spelljammer as a setting into the system minimally** and as I recall the War Captains Companion with its ~30+ page ship combat focused 'Book 3' came out two and half years later. Adding much more combat crunch to the crunch hungry grognards delight. Including the originally omitted advise on managing the third dimension in combat! and gave us naval-battle-sim-neck-beards that were not happy with what spelljammer brought to the space naval battle scene in 1989... something more to chew on 1992 (Hint: half of us still weren't happy either, cause that's our schtick, sides were drawn...) We had the same grievances then as we do now to a degree. This is all very adaptable stuff with a little blood, sweat, and tears... of the players... It always has been. I think folks are just grump the new stuff is not 100% fulfilling their endless spells in space adventure dreams with a small three set book set... But I digress. Thank you for the refresher on the 2e ways... **Assuming we agree that 5e is intentionally meant to be rules minimal by design and in approach... I've always thought it more of a throw back to the earliest days with an addition large publish polish. Those rules light spaces are akin to the "gaps" we often saw attributed to "missing" gaps in the rules in the likes of Chainmail... (ok that was missing entire sets of stats and other pieces...) and with that great gaming tables were born in the spaces between rules with the freedom to create whatever we wanted/needed... and the need was strong at times... One thing 5e shoots for is is the middle, so no one is happy when its all compromise :D... How does that saying go... "A rule set whose core is 100% compromise is at its core compromised." A design tradeoff gone too far at times... I don't think it goes that far, because it has space to have mutually exclusive ideas and options be used instead. So we can fix a compromise we don't like! ;) I think there is room for some glory to be had in this new space... and if it sucks... There is always the old ways to learn from if we are 'open' and 'want' to. :) and if they don't work... we bury them with new ways and ideas, just because they did not please us...
Spelljammer would be quite destabilizing in the Golarion setting of Pathfinder. One definite example is that there's a rift to the Abyss on the moon, which has led to a colony of succubi. Currently, it takes them two years to fly from there to Golarion, keeping the planet somewhat safe. That would be cut to a few minutes plus gravity well time (don't have the exact figures, but roughly an hour total). Still, they're both settings I like, so I'd like there to be some way to mash them together. Thanks for another outstanding video. Except, of course that it lacked GIANT 👏 SPACE 👏 HAMSTERS 👏
I mean, they'd need to have helms that work for them. they aren't spellcasters, so a regular spelljamming helm wouldn't work, and they'd need a series helm specifically built for a succubus to use that (and those aren't exactly a thing that is going to crash land on the moon), so they'd still have to fly at their normal speed, and it would still take a long time.
@@sharkforce8147 Thanks. I only have a vague memory of how it works, and somehow thought they could just spelljam themselves like they were mi-go or something.
Do you think Starfinder starship combat rules can be used to supplement spelljammer combat rules? They have a phases per turn system and crew mate positions perfect for each stat so everyone can be useful for something.
Just hearing someone say THAC0...... Fd memories. I was playing ADD 2nd when spell Jammers came out. Right around this time was the godfall.The Time of Troubles was all encompassing! We could not spare a single gaming night sailing the Stars. With the actual gods roaming the countryside. Our characters were following in the footsteps of mortals about to become gods. TSR would have done more successful with this if they would have changed the timing on release. Thank you for the smile on my
I have two actually! The Saturday Morning D&D Show, which is my weekly podcast - th-cam.com/users/SaturdayMorningDnDShow And I just started Jorphdan's Jocular Junction - th-cam.com/channels/O1HvISVLDqwUOzmviTRECw.html The Junction has little content at the moment, fresh channel but I was going to use it to showcase other TTRPG systems I enjoy, video games, and projects that I want to try but aren't ready for the main channel. TH-cam gets picky about stuff and if I experiment too much I end up hurting this channel. :)
oh, you want a lifejammer for that. death helms are weird, but importantly the person being used as fuel is definitely also the pilot (it is... unclear at best if the fuel is the pilot in lifejammers in the rules, but the implication so far as I can tell is that they are not).
"Small weapons can inflict hull point damage as well. For every 10 cumulative hit points of damage inflicted on a ship, the ship takes one hull point of damage. The damage must be to the same exact location (a volley of 20 arrows that sticks in the side of a ship and inflicts a total of 60 points of damage causes no damage to the ship's hull; each arrow hit a different spot. A character chopping at the hull with an axe, however, could inflict hull damage)." "Magic which inflicts damage in points has the same effect as personal weapons. For every 10 points of damage inflicted by a spell that is directed against a ship, it inflicts one point of hull damage. A 10-HD fireball which causes 30 points of damage inflicts 3 points of hull damage (and starts a fire, if possible)."
How do you recommend making spell jammer combat interactive for all the players? As explained it seems like there isn't much for the players to do (besides whosever controlling the ship).
Depending on the number of players you can separate the different functions. 1 Player handling course and movement, different players manning different weapons, and extra players handling damage control (alternate rules I'd love to see Jorphdan make up).
Set them to command the ship weapons. Use their combat to run just that crew and weapon so each has work to focus on as part of the action. Lots of tasks to do during game time running a ship. Jobs on board can lead to some nice crew involved sessions. I have index cards with each of my npc crew set up on ,stats gear, notes of personality if any has come up in game sessions. Makes it more fun if the DM decides a BOARDING action is going to happen on MY DECK. OK Bring it on lol. There are proficiency skills players can take in ship weapons that and crew training on the weapon type can improve hit and damage plus reloading.
To add to that, I'd say anyone with spells or a bow of that range could use those, though I doubt they'd be able to do any hull damage, they'd likely be able to attack the crew.
So more in depth the crew can assist to fire weapons, and if close enough actually attack the ship or crew. I would have the pilot maneuver the ship and the other players attack with weapons or repair. I hope to figure out some more robust rules.
@@Jorphdan Most rules for siege weapons and combat work here. Including player skills and crew training. spend 2 weapon prof slots in ballista as a weapon have no negatives. spend 3 and gain +\ Some Giff sailors take all their weapon skills and profs for ship deck weapons Bombards. they do not like to MISS.
So, is all forward movement arrested if not being constantly contributed to? I feel like, besides devising a way to demonstrate and track 3-D combat, I may want to try to think of a way to re-write the rules to reflect the lack of friction in space.
@@Jorphdan An idea for a adventure in Pathfinder the party somehow gets off the planet an to Absalom Station where everyone asks the party: How in the name of God did you get off a missing planet?!
@@Auriorium The flavour of Spelljammer is completely different from Starfinder though. If you wanted to play Spelljammer, you'd need to have spelljamming rules.
I don't understand how spelljammer works with the planes? Is the universe, including the wildspace and crystal spheres and flogistum, all on the prime material plane? Or do the planes have there own crystal spheres?
Yeah all crystal spheres are part of the prime material plane. It's kind of weird and I don't think was intended to 100% be compatible with planescape.
Each crystal sphere contains it's own prime material plane, floating in the phlogiston. From the prospective of a native of any given crystal sphere, any other crystal sphere is an "alternate material plane." I don't know if there's any official material regarding planar travel between settings with different planar structures, but I would treat each crystal sphere as having it's on separate planar system (material plane, astral, inner, outer planes or whatever the setting has) connected only to other crystal spheres through the deep ethereal or the phlogiston. The phlogiston is only connected to prime material planes.
Most crystal spheres are in the same Prime Material Plane. So most of the main places like Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Birthright, Dark Sun, etc are part of the same Prime Material Plane. You could leave Forgotten Realms crystal sphere and sail through the phlogiston and end up in Dragonlance. Some places are more remote and harder to get to, like Dark Sun/Athas, but that is just DM fiat or textual flavour. Some places, if it says it is not in the Prime Material Plane, like Ravenloft, Feywild, the elemental planes, are not reachable sailing through the phlogiston. I am not sure, but Mystara, from older D&D editions, are also on another Prime Material Plane
@@jamesonstalanthasyu it is worth noting that crystal spheres *do* block most everything, including setting-specific rules, from crossing through them. including the laws of reality that control how some things work in various different settings. there is no shadow weave once you leave the crystal sphere of the forgotten realms. the way the planes are connected in dragonlance ceases to apply the instant you leave that sphere (although you won't notice until you enter another sphere, since you can't access *any* planes in the phlogiston). basically, a crystal sphere keeps the rules of a given campaign setting to that setting and no further.
I play Spelljammer for years and I understand all the rules . One thing that always got me was the tonnage and helms I rules I understand but if you take sea going vessels like a Spanish gallon a typical Spanish gallon was 500 tons the biggest was 1500 tons the spell jamming helms even a major helm could not move them in to space . What do you think the fix could be if you wanted a large ship like that
So the tonnage represents displacement in space and not actual weight. I would argue that the spanish gallon has a lower tonnage in spelljammer terms than in real life weight.
@@Jorphdan you would think that. How would you just say the HMS victory which has a displacement of 3500 tons and 104 guns would translate and a compliment of 850 crew?
I can only assume the tonnage used in Spelljammer is a different relative unit of measurement than our standard tonnage. The Spelljammer setting list a Caravel as Tonnage: 10 tons; Cargo: 5 tons; Keel Length: 70'; Beam Length: 20' and Galleon as Tonnage: 40 tons; Cargo: 20 tons; Keel Length: 130'; Beam Length 30'.
It was an improvement over the DM constantly having to check the tables on the DM screen. That's right, in 1e, the players didn't know what they had to roll in order to hit.
@@tomkerruish2982 THAC0 is actually not that complicated once you understand it. the trick is getting to the point where you understand it. ultimately, it's still just basic addition and subtraction, it's just a lot less intuitive.
5:24 just wanna say the original box set 'space combat' map was awful; in the War Captain's Companian they ha much better ships that made combat a lot easier to visualise.
Correction: at the time Spelljammer came out a round was not 6 seconds long, it was 1 minute long. Thus a turn (which was 10 minutes long, as you say) was 10 rounds. It wasn't until the Player's Option and DM's Option books came out that a round was shortened from 1 minute (although even then it wasn't reduced to 6 seconds yet, but was rather described as "about 10 to 15 seconds"), and by that time Spelljammer had been discontinued for some time.
Thanks for the information!
@@Jorphdan no problem, it's one of the weird things that makes things from 1e and 2e not quite translate as directly as you'd think (although most of the time it makes no difference to how the game plays)
Correct. But never been the one to rule bash the man running the show. his game = my pleasure to play. DM's are rare.
@@Reshtarc Really? In my experience, players are rare :(
Beat me to it! haha
I want to clarify that the operators of spelljamming helms are also sometimes referred to as spelljammers.
So, spelljammers spelljam their spelljammers to the Spelljammer in Spelljammer.
haha!
I have done that ;)~
Yo dawg I heard you like to spelljam... 🤣
heck yeah they do
spelljam sounds like what wizards put on their toast for breakfast
I just want to say, you explained both Spelljammer combat specifically and that THAC0 system specifically better than any AD&D book. Thank you.
Thanks!
My Lich captain had a fouled atmosphere at all times. Undead crew do not need it. Share the same hex = share the same atmosphere. Toxic hello. Negatives to all our prey.
Since we're running a weekly 5e Spelljammer campaign, I've read the manuals that explain this so many times. And this is BY FAR the best explanation I've how it all works, that I've come across. I learned a bunch from this!
W00T! Happy to help :)
Coming back to this as this years 5e supplement had surprisingly NO RULES for Ship Combat!
I Loved hearing you explain the old THACO vs AC scores like a grade school teacher to a class. As I was in grade school when I learned it and wish someone had explained it like that to me at the time.
I think it helps, even researching it I had to reread it several times to make sure I was getting it correctly
Spelljammer was one of the first published campaign settings I played in when I started playing AD&D 2E back in 1991. I am currently playing in a 5E campaign that uses Spelljammer ships and Wildspace frequently. I am really enjoying these videos Jorphdan!
That's awesome! :) Sounds like an exciting campaign!
Loving these Spelljammer videos. Thanks!
Glad you like them!
I see a new adventure coming called "Space Jam"
*Laughs in Monstar*
Well now you got me making a Spell Jammer campaign haha. Space pirates, mindflayers, and hippo men oh my!
When Spelljammer came out when I was like in the 8-9th grade I fell in love. It is such a great setting!
I guess this is what we’ll have to use since the box set that was recently released doesn’t have any actual rules for it
I played AD&D back in the day and from what i remember, your use of THAC0 looks right to me. I had a campaign that went into Spelljammer after I randomly bought the box set on clearance at a book store, and we loved it. We adapted it into 3e and then 3.5e and haven't played anything newer since. We were happy with it and our Epic level settings in space. My favorite character was a Favored Soul that traveled through the stars became a god.
I love the idea of going full Wrath of Kahn and pulling out some dragonchess maneuvers on a foe
Just FYI Dungeon Magazine Issue #92 did a update from 2nd edition to 3rd edition for spelljammer, which may be easier to update to a 5th edition rules. The issue has updated rules for spelljammer combat, ship stats, planets, feats, skills, and prestige classes. I really like the elven Arrowing class spelljammer ship.
The Enemy's gate is Down
Bean was always cool
I can't wait for Spell Jammer come to 5e! So overdue! And I'm pretty sure its pronounced thay ko. Thats how we said it for a 20 years anyway. Thacko sounds so harsh lol
there are actually 3d combat rules in the war captain's companion.
Last time I checked I still had an Oger Mammoth in dry dock Repair/rebuild at 81 hull points of the 90 max. Mostly original gear with 3 +2 heavy ballista. Helm not included.
So need this series right now for the homebrew! Thanks!!!
Spelljammers versus Spelljammers.
Does a Spelljammer have the ability to spelljam? Or can a Spelljammer spelljam another Spelljammer's spelljammer?
Spelljammers don't jam spelljammers, unless you're jamming your spelljammer into another spelljammer to stop it spelljamming.
Ahh, the memories of running Spelljammer combat scenarios late into the night with my friends. My personal favorite trick was the clipper bombard broadside. If you didn't have that kind of broadside, your best option was typically ramming.
Re: three-dimensional space -- if there's only two ships they'll always share a common plane, so combat between the two will always effectively be in a two-dimensional space. (And if they both have 360-degree firing arc, the relationship between the two of them can be abstracted down to a single dimension.)
5:00 always good to see some ender love
Just hearing someone say THAC0. Find memories. I was playing ADD when it was brand new! We tried SpellJammer. The truth is just about the same time, the godfall. Time of Troubles, we couldn't spare a single night sailing the stars with the actual gods running about in the land! The time of troubles was all encompassing. Our characters were following in the footsteps of mortals about to become gods. This would have gone a lot better if they would have adjusted their timing. Thank you for the smile you have given me
Watching this after seeing the new Spelljammer ship combat "rules" makes me sad.
I'm going to do a followup video to kind of highlight the differences. I bet we can homebrew a happy result.
Loving this series and I can't wait to see your Spelljammer rules. Will they be patreon, dm's guild, or something else?
I need to know
You can download all the spelljammer stuff online
It'll be just a free "interpretation" but if you're interested now google. There is a pretty robust 5e spelljammer fan base on the web.
@@Jorphdan I'll have to do that, thank you. 😁
@@DStrormer www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=2 is one of the larger groups, but the real thing I would suggest you do from there if you want to find out about all the different groups is get in touch with "big mac" from those forums. I know he's in touch with a lot of different spelljammer fan groups.
Really loving the dive into SpellJammer! I've wanted to play in this setting since it was released, when I was a kid. Your videos have inspired me to brew a campaign in the SpellJammer setting and hopefully I can get my group onboard!
Spelljammer 5E just got more likely now that it looks like Dragonlance is in legal limbo.
I still DM a 2E game. You got the Thac0 right. Thac0 - AC = Die roll needed to hit. But for initiative, you roll a d10, and the lower number goes first.
I love ya as the dm for rod of the seven parts over on nerd immersion hope you start dm more for us
Thanks so much!
When you wake up in a dark cage with a dark elf guard unlocking the door to drag you out ....I can understand why you as a player think ok Underdark ... Menzoberanzan or something..... But the guard grabs you and drags you out of the dark cage and up the stairs to the door. Kicking it open he tosses you out onto the deck of this Dark Elf Man O War. The light from the stars dazzles your eyes as a large black skinned Orc walks up to you. Asking in perfect High Elven with accent " Will you serve as crew or be tossed into the void?" As he gestures over his shoulder at 2 more of the biggest nasties black skinned orcs Bigger than any orcs you have ever seen toss your Legion Commander screaming over the rail.
Very engaging description. However, given how gravity works in Spelljammer, the Legion Commander would simply bob up and down next to the ship. However, the captives likely don't know this, so it'd still be effective. Plus, the LC would be stuck near the ship until someone lassoed him to reel him back in. Come to think of it, the whole situation would be so disorienting to the captives that they'd likely be quite demoralized.
@@tomkerruish2982 Not entirely correct. While they would "bob" back and forth through gravity plane, it wouldn't slow their horizontal movement. They basically follow a sine wave path to the edge of the air envelope and then float off into wild space.
@@Tzimisce True. I hadn't considered there being a horizontal component to the velocity. That certainly can add to the adventure. "Surrender, or we'll simply let your commander drift off into space. The choice is yours."
@@tomkerruish2982 That groundling thinking will get you every time.
@@tomkerruish2982 All well as the ship moves on and when the air bubbles reach the edges the sound of his cries will stop. instantly. No worries the Scavvers that follow the ship will enjoy the food.
I wonder what others think of the war machine/siege machine rules from basic. They have pretty good large scale combat rules for ships, including those that can fly.
I used a modified version to fight the 2nd Unhuman war and the players loved it!
This was good refresher. I am looking for ways to expand the new 5e Spelljammer combat experience. I forgot how much the 2e base rules influenced combat in ship to ship, like the the inclusion of flight maneuvering in 2e Spelljammer. Probably the #1 reason there is less rules presented in the 5e reintroduction... there is simply less rules in 5e to be addressed to bring spelljammer as a setting into the system minimally** and as I recall the War Captains Companion with its ~30+ page ship combat focused 'Book 3' came out two and half years later. Adding much more combat crunch to the crunch hungry grognards delight. Including the originally omitted advise on managing the third dimension in combat! and gave us naval-battle-sim-neck-beards that were not happy with what spelljammer brought to the space naval battle scene in 1989... something more to chew on 1992 (Hint: half of us still weren't happy either, cause that's our schtick, sides were drawn...) We had the same grievances then as we do now to a degree. This is all very adaptable stuff with a little blood, sweat, and tears... of the players... It always has been. I think folks are just grump the new stuff is not 100% fulfilling their endless spells in space adventure dreams with a small three set book set...
But I digress. Thank you for the refresher on the 2e ways...
**Assuming we agree that 5e is intentionally meant to be rules minimal by design and in approach... I've always thought it more of a throw back to the earliest days with an addition large publish polish. Those rules light spaces are akin to the "gaps" we often saw attributed to "missing" gaps in the rules in the likes of Chainmail... (ok that was missing entire sets of stats and other pieces...) and with that great gaming tables were born in the spaces between rules with the freedom to create whatever we wanted/needed... and the need was strong at times... One thing 5e shoots for is is the middle, so no one is happy when its all compromise :D... How does that saying go... "A rule set whose core is 100% compromise is at its core compromised." A design tradeoff gone too far at times... I don't think it goes that far, because it has space to have mutually exclusive ideas and options be used instead. So we can fix a compromise we don't like! ;) I think there is room for some glory to be had in this new space... and if it sucks... There is always the old ways to learn from if we are 'open' and 'want' to. :) and if they don't work... we bury them with new ways and ideas, just because they did not please us...
Spelljammer would be quite destabilizing in the Golarion setting of Pathfinder. One definite example is that there's a rift to the Abyss on the moon, which has led to a colony of succubi. Currently, it takes them two years to fly from there to Golarion, keeping the planet somewhat safe. That would be cut to a few minutes plus gravity well time (don't have the exact figures, but roughly an hour total). Still, they're both settings I like, so I'd like there to be some way to mash them together.
Thanks for another outstanding video. Except, of course that it lacked GIANT 👏 SPACE 👏 HAMSTERS 👏
I mean, they'd need to have helms that work for them. they aren't spellcasters, so a regular spelljamming helm wouldn't work, and they'd need a series helm specifically built for a succubus to use that (and those aren't exactly a thing that is going to crash land on the moon), so they'd still have to fly at their normal speed, and it would still take a long time.
@@sharkforce8147 Thanks. I only have a vague memory of how it works, and somehow thought they could just spelljam themselves like they were mi-go or something.
Thanks Jorphdan! I think you explain it well :) sounds fun. Makes me want to surprise my players with a space session!!
Do you think Starfinder starship combat rules can be used to supplement spelljammer combat rules? They have a phases per turn system and crew mate positions perfect for each stat so everyone can be useful for something.
Thank you for the combat rundown! Can't wait for planets!
Just hearing someone say THAC0...... Fd memories. I was playing ADD 2nd when spell Jammers came out. Right around this time was the godfall.The Time of Troubles was all encompassing! We could not spare a single gaming night sailing the Stars. With the actual gods roaming the countryside. Our characters were following in the footsteps of mortals about to become gods. TSR would have done more successful with this if they would have changed the timing on release. Thank you for the smile on my
I learnt THAC0 from stars without number and it's sooo stupid.
I just watched your DCC stream. Would love to see some DCC videos!!!
I'd love too, it wouldn't be very on brand though so maybe on my other channel 🙂
@@Jorphdan you have another channel!?
I've been working too much, how could I not know that?
I have two actually!
The Saturday Morning D&D Show, which is my weekly podcast - th-cam.com/users/SaturdayMorningDnDShow
And I just started Jorphdan's Jocular Junction - th-cam.com/channels/O1HvISVLDqwUOzmviTRECw.html
The Junction has little content at the moment, fresh channel but I was going to use it to showcase other TTRPG systems I enjoy, video games, and projects that I want to try but aren't ready for the main channel. TH-cam gets picky about stuff and if I experiment too much I end up hurting this channel. :)
@@Jorphdan Radical. I'll check them out👍🏽
Hammer driver here. Love my Scro Battle Mage. " Toss a fresh Elf Lord into the death helm and prepare for ramming speed."
oh, you want a lifejammer for that. death helms are weird, but importantly the person being used as fuel is definitely also the pilot (it is... unclear at best if the fuel is the pilot in lifejammers in the rules, but the implication so far as I can tell is that they are not).
How would damage that players do translate when they try to damage a ship? eg greataxe/fireball
"Small weapons can inflict hull point damage as well. For every 10 cumulative hit points of damage inflicted on a ship, the ship takes one hull point of damage. The damage must be to the same exact location (a volley of 20 arrows that sticks in the side of a ship and inflicts a total of 60 points of damage causes no damage to the ship's hull; each arrow hit a different spot. A character chopping at the hull with an axe, however, could inflict hull damage)."
"Magic which inflicts damage in points has the same effect as personal weapons. For every 10 points of damage inflicted by a spell that is directed against a ship, it inflicts one point of hull damage. A 10-HD fireball which causes 30 points of damage inflicts 3 points of hull damage (and starts a fire, if possible)."
Excellent video Jorphdan keep it up! Oh also are you going to do a spelljammer races video?
yep, I gotta talk about the Giff at some point.
@@Jorphdan awesome!
That was super informative!
As someone who played during that era.....you got Thac0 right. Simplicity is AC0= AC20.
2=5
Thac0, he speaks in the old tongue! 2nd is my system. Doing a little subtraction is easy. Its like people only want to add these days.
my new band: 36 days to plutor
Thumbs up for Ender.
How do you recommend making spell jammer combat interactive for all the players? As explained it seems like there isn't much for the players to do (besides whosever controlling the ship).
Depending on the number of players you can separate the different functions. 1 Player handling course and movement, different players manning different weapons, and extra players handling damage control (alternate rules I'd love to see Jorphdan make up).
Set them to command the ship weapons. Use their combat to run just that crew and weapon so each has work to focus on as part of the action. Lots of tasks to do during game time running a ship. Jobs on board can lead to some nice crew involved sessions. I have index cards with each of my npc crew set up on ,stats gear, notes of personality if any has come up in game sessions. Makes it more fun if the DM decides a BOARDING action is going to happen on MY DECK. OK Bring it on lol. There are proficiency skills players can take in ship weapons that and crew training on the weapon type can improve hit and damage plus reloading.
To add to that, I'd say anyone with spells or a bow of that range could use those, though I doubt they'd be able to do any hull damage, they'd likely be able to attack the crew.
So more in depth the crew can assist to fire weapons, and if close enough actually attack the ship or crew.
I would have the pilot maneuver the ship and the other players attack with weapons or repair. I hope to figure out some more robust rules.
@@Jorphdan Most rules for siege weapons and combat work here. Including player skills and crew training. spend 2 weapon prof slots in ballista as a weapon have no negatives. spend 3 and gain +\ Some Giff sailors take all their weapon skills and profs for ship deck weapons Bombards. they do not like to MISS.
Enemy gate is down is from enders game the novel, that's interesting to know they used that in homeworld
Space Fantasy, Here We Come!!!
Ships sharing same air in space.... call it a Giff Fart.
Ship crews .... when the deck boy is a level 4 warrior you stowed away on the wrong tug son.
Yikes. 2e was unnecessarily complicated. I knew that before, but this kind of made my whole brain glaze over.
SpellJammer 5e , cmmon WotC
I'd like to point out that the War Captain's Companion had rules for 3-D combat.
about a week late but please discuss Large Luigi, the best character ever created for dnd
Supposedly WOTC is working on a new Spell jammers book for 5e. It’d be cool to see the mechanics for 5e
So, is all forward movement arrested if not being constantly contributed to? I feel like, besides devising a way to demonstrate and track 3-D combat, I may want to try to think of a way to re-write the rules to reflect the lack of friction in space.
THACO.It is not easy, but it makes sense. I do prefer today's 5e ac as THACO feels like needless complication and gate keepy.
Also you dont need Spelljammer rules for Pathfinder since you have Starfinder that is the Pathfinder universe in the future.
true! I "spaced" starfinder ;)
@@Jorphdan An idea for a adventure in Pathfinder the party somehow gets off the planet an to Absalom Station where everyone asks the party: How in the name of God did you get off a missing planet?!
Starfinder is sci-fi using Pathfinder rules. Spelljammer is fantasy in space.
@@Tzimisce yes but like the Spelljamer Starfinder is in the same universe as Pathfinder.
@@Auriorium The flavour of Spelljammer is completely different from Starfinder though. If you wanted to play Spelljammer, you'd need to have spelljamming rules.
@Jorhpdan
That's right Ender, the enemies gate is down.
I don't understand how spelljammer works with the planes? Is the universe, including the wildspace and crystal spheres and flogistum, all on the prime material plane? Or do the planes have there own crystal spheres?
Yeah all crystal spheres are part of the prime material plane. It's kind of weird and I don't think was intended to 100% be compatible with planescape.
Each crystal sphere contains it's own prime material plane, floating in the phlogiston. From the prospective of a native of any given crystal sphere, any other crystal sphere is an "alternate material plane." I don't know if there's any official material regarding planar travel between settings with different planar structures, but I would treat each crystal sphere as having it's on separate planar system (material plane, astral, inner, outer planes or whatever the setting has) connected only to other crystal spheres through the deep ethereal or the phlogiston. The phlogiston is only connected to prime material planes.
Most crystal spheres are in the same Prime Material Plane. So most of the main places like Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Birthright, Dark Sun, etc are part of the same Prime Material Plane. You could leave Forgotten Realms crystal sphere and sail through the phlogiston and end up in Dragonlance. Some places are more remote and harder to get to, like Dark Sun/Athas, but that is just DM fiat or textual flavour.
Some places, if it says it is not in the Prime Material Plane, like Ravenloft, Feywild, the elemental planes, are not reachable sailing through the phlogiston. I am not sure, but Mystara, from older D&D editions, are also on another Prime Material Plane
@@jamesonstalanthasyu it is worth noting that crystal spheres *do* block most everything, including setting-specific rules, from crossing through them. including the laws of reality that control how some things work in various different settings. there is no shadow weave once you leave the crystal sphere of the forgotten realms. the way the planes are connected in dragonlance ceases to apply the instant you leave that sphere (although you won't notice until you enter another sphere, since you can't access *any* planes in the phlogiston). basically, a crystal sphere keeps the rules of a given campaign setting to that setting and no further.
When it comes to the space travel aspect, how do the sails on a Spelljammer work
They are for show. The HELM propels the ship with magic
This is the first time I've been able to understand THAC0 and yeah, it seems really stupid. Alas, that is the drawback of things being in the past.
I play Spelljammer for years and I understand all the rules . One thing that always got me was the tonnage and helms I rules I understand but if you take sea going vessels like a Spanish gallon a typical Spanish gallon was 500 tons the biggest was 1500 tons the spell jamming helms even a major helm could not move them in to space . What do you think the fix could be if you wanted a large ship like that
So the tonnage represents displacement in space and not actual weight. I would argue that the spanish gallon has a lower tonnage in spelljammer terms than in real life weight.
@@Jorphdan you would think that. How would you just say the HMS victory which has a displacement of 3500 tons and 104 guns would translate and a compliment of 850 crew?
I can only assume the tonnage used in Spelljammer is a different relative unit of measurement than our standard tonnage. The Spelljammer setting list a Caravel as Tonnage: 10 tons; Cargo: 5 tons; Keel Length: 70'; Beam Length: 20' and Galleon as Tonnage: 40 tons; Cargo: 20 tons; Keel Length: 130'; Beam Length 30'.
@@Tzimisce just say if I wanted to use an earth ship in spelljammer what do you think the conversion would be ?
If I wanted to use and earth ship in spelljammer. What do you think the conversion be?
Oh THAC0, I still don't miss you
thanks for the video!
My pleasure!
Looking forward for the combat rules
that intro though
this is awsome
Um, Actually(TM) The squid ship wouldn't actually take up two hexes
#BringSpelljammerTo5e
Do it, cowards!
Why would I use 5E?
Ah! A fellow Battle School alumni I see....#DragonArmy4Life
Ah, THAC0, what were they thinking when they came with that crap
It was an improvement over the DM constantly having to check the tables on the DM screen. That's right, in 1e, the players didn't know what they had to roll in order to hit.
@@tomkerruish2982 THAC0 is actually not that complicated once you understand it. the trick is getting to the point where you understand it. ultimately, it's still just basic addition and subtraction, it's just a lot less intuitive.
@@sharkforce8147 i agree. I was simply pointing out how it was an improvement over 1e in that it took some of the burden of the DM.
I thought AD&D rounds were 1 minute. 10 rounds per turn.
you're right, I was mistaken :/
@@Jorphdan Thought so, but there was a chance that I forgot. Long time ago.
5:24 just wanna say the original box set 'space combat' map was awful; in the War Captain's Companian they ha much better ships that made combat a lot easier to visualise.
THACO
I am so glad we ditched THACO. It seems so complicated and annoying to deal with.
THAC0 breaks my brain
THACO is wacko
Fricken Hated THACO