The greatest thing about this channel is that Paul McGowan doesn't use any filters. Paul, you are so comfortable in your own skin that even those crazy tangents you occasionally sail off on - are very entertaining! In the land of TH-cam - this is quite refreshing!
I think subs are the biggest YMMV piece of home audio equipment there is. In the right circumstances, they can add the perfect amount of low-end punch to whatever you're listening to. But it's so tough to get them dialed into that sweet spot between inaudible and boomy/obnoxious, and that sweet spot seems to always change depending on what you're listening to. I've spent hours dialing my sub in to sound just right when playing music only to have it rattle the fillings out of my teeth when I switch to a movie.
Great comment but theres one very important and often overlooked factor Paul. The speakers ideal placement for the best soundstage & imaging is 99% of the time not the perfect placement for perfect bass performance. You'll always have to compromise placement in a stereo 2.0 setup. Setting up the speakers for perfect soundstage & imaging then adding a HPF + Sub and placing it in the perfect location for bass performance. This is the only way to get a perfect full range sound.
The PreSonus Temblor 10 sub woofer has a foot switchable high pass filter. So you connect the powered speakers to the powered sub-woofer (so it's all done at line level). In the recording/mixing studio this is so you can use your main monitor speakers full range and with a click of the foot switch in a crossover at the set frequency (a dial on the back) for checking your sub-frequencies in your mix.
I don't really need 20 Hz to wobble the cones of my main speakers when it can be reached routed to a subwoofer assuming even the subwoofer can go that low.
My Paradigm PS 800 does have a fixed high pass filter on the low-level input. For me, in my modest system, this works very well, but perhaps not for you, Paul.
I really like listening to you Paul. Every time i look for an answer to something on the net, you show up with the answer. I'm glad because you're willing to explain everything to us. I wish you all the best in life.
Emotiva's SE line of subwoofers offer high-pass filtering when connected through their line level input/output connectors. High-pass frequency is switch-selectable (60, 80, 100 Hz). I have an SE-8 in my desktop system, which has a low-wattage class A amp driving Klipsch stand mount speakers. The main speakers roll off at about 45 Hz. I have the high-pass set for 80 Hz, so the the power amp and main speakers aren't struggling to reproduce sub bass that the speakers can't reproduce, anyway. Class A amps usually don't have a lot of power, so every little bit helps. And they're not terribly expensive. The SE-8 runs $329 with free shipping to the Lower 48 states. Bottom line, I'm delighted with the improvement the SE-8 made in my system.
Car Audio Inc yes i did find that sound just before. I like how the prefix "infra" can somehow mean both above and below. But yes you are correct. ^^^idk what the fuck i was on about there. Brain fart too early in the morning
@@CarAudioInc infra means lower frequency than sound (you can hear) ultra means higher frequency. Sub sonic means slower than sound the opposite of super sonic planes like Concorde.
My main system has a pair of ancient Goodman Magister Speakers. They have a tweeter, a mid range both non vented and a 15 inch woofer. The cabinet is of infinite baffle design. You don't need a subwoofer with these. The frequency response goes as low as about twenty cps. They sound wonderful. The bass is there in spades but it isn't forced. The soundstage is solid with the main singer generally firmly between the speakers, even though they are positioned for aesthetical reasons rather than sonically. They are a trifle big but my wife knew what was coming with me when we got married. That was over thirty years ago. They are still perfect and this is because unlike some speakers they don't need to be driven hard. They are rated at 40watts rms each but 10 watts a channel is ear busting and china rattling. They probably need 5-7 watts to fill the room perfectly. Installing good quality speaker cables made a huge improvement in the bass attack and with the soundstage..
Acoustic Research must have believed the same as Paul; often their speakers had just a capacitor on the tweeter, no filter at all on the full range woofer. I have two AR models, AR-30B and AR Rock Partners. I have 2nd order xovers (poly caps and air core inductors) on both, the -30B @ 1.8K and the RPs @2.5 K. (I tried a 2nd order on the RPs @ 2k, their advertised xover frequency, but they did not sound good; I raised it to 2.5k and it made a big difference in fullness and warmth.) Both models sound really good as is. I am thinking of removing the xover from the RPs and going back to the way AR sent them out, with just a 5uF cap on the tweeter, to see if I can hear the difference. Fingers crossed! Got the mods done. I ended up with 13uF on the tweets and a .4mH inductor on the woofer (1st order Butterworth, 6 ohm T and 5 ohm W, @ 2K) Highs are bright, lows are solid. I had to add the inductor to the woofer to eliminate some distortion. Thanks Paul!
I always thought that adjusting the crossover on the sub would change the sound at the subwoofer out. Had I gotten a subwoofer I would have expected myself to roll off the bass on the main speakers. Thanks Paul! That was educational.
I have a pair of Audiostatic electrostatic speakers which are very bass shy and the diaphragms will slap against the stators causing arcing at medium volume.I believe they can't handle much below 100hz .I'm looking for a subwoofer that will stop those low frequencies from being fed back to them.
I know this video is now 5 years old but maybe I misunderstood the response and exactly how the question was asked. I was under the assumption that the viewer was asking about why a subwoofer that has a Low-Pass Crossover Built in that is from what I have seen most adjustable from 40hz-250hz, but these are Low Pass Filters rather than adding a High Pass Filter in combination to form a Bandwidth Filter which would filter the signal into the subwoofer amplifier to be High/Low Pass at such a rate that the subwoofer amplifier wouldn't receive the unusable frequencies that the subwoofer wasn't capable or desired to reproduce. I had realized that because in car audio subwoofer amplifiers a high pass filter is offered on selected amplifiers in the form of subsonic filter. This isn't a feature I've seen much of since the common usage of DSP Units being installed in the signal chain which allows active control of any frequency in a three octave range with adjustable attack delay and release. I will say the DSP unit making people duck when a gun shot is played because it sounds like an actual gunshot these days makes me smile when I see it happen.
You made the statement "A subwoofer should never be heard" 5:24 which I disagree with. It does depend on what type of music you listen to, but if you like bass heavy music (Electronic or Rap) then a subwoofer should be a huge part of your sound.
A subwoofer should never be heard because the woofer in your bookshelf or floorstanding speakers does the bass that you hear and the subwoofer what you should feel !!!
I like my mains left alone, no HP filter , then i match my sub LP filter to the spot the mains start losing steam. Think of it like adding octaves to an otherwise great speaker.
the music itself should provide that, and the playback system should be as flat as possible to recreate the feeling of heavy bass if you listen to tracks with heavy bass. What about tracks that dont need all that bass? what about natural sounding speech? Turning up a sub too much will ruin those things.
JL Audio make an external crossover for integrating subwoofer(s) and main speakers. And they, perhaps not surprisingly, advocate the separation of bass frequencies from the main speakers. However, it isn't cheap! I have no experience on which to base any judgement. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has used such a system
I am considering a MINIDSP HD for use as a crossover at say 70 hz. The reason is I have book shelf speakers with a 5" woofer and a higher volumes the cone excursion is high and I would assume distortion sets in and worried about blowing them. I am considering the trade off off of adding additional electronics, cost and complexity VS how the speaker is behaving at the lower registers. I do listen to a good amount of bass heavy music.
Brian Simmons why not use a passive crossover network rather than an active one? A dsp will only reduce the quality of the sound passing through, add latency, and cost much more money than an passive crossover.
Yeah, that idea about having a very simple signal path is nice and everything, but if you don't have a lot of heavy acoustic treatment in your room, EQ is the way to go. And that's the biggest advantage of having a DSP. And MiniDSP has a very powerful EQ.
AS I understand it, there are issue with correct cut off frequency Vs impedance, efficiency loss, no flexibility on frequency or slope or type of filter and I wonder about the availability of a 70Hz high pass filter. I do have a pair of FMODs line level high pass filters but I have never been a fan of them. For $200 USD you get a crazy flexible crossover, a great parametric EQ and time alignment. So maybe for $100 more than a passive you get all of that. EQ is really the main point of MINIDSP but comes in second for what I am looking for.
I love that expression you make and the look of your face when pausing at 1:32. I also love the channel Paul, always interesting topics and good answers given to the question at hand.
mindtraveller100 Other way around afaik. Think about a transformer - Transformers work only on AC so the closer to DC the less signal they pass. So a coil is a high pass filter. And capacitors at the right specs will close the “gaps” in high frequency signals leaving only the low frequencies behind, so capacitor = low pass filter.
Following part of the last things you just said about assuming the speakers is fine as it is, are you saying that when we add subwoofers to a stereo system we shouldn't also highpass the signal of the "main" speakers? If we don't do that then we could risk not having a controlled "flatter" response and also not being able to improve that main speaker mid ranges behaviour by removing the lower frequencies. Does it hurt so much do this?
Excellent explanation! Thanks. I have the PVxp sub with 2 high pass outputs for full range speakers. This is the maim reason i bought it. For that convenience! I should now theoretically leave my electronic xover home and just use the built in xover in the sub! Well....The full range cabs sounded muddy AND their volume dropped down drastically. I immediately reconfigured it to mixer to full range cabs to sub and it was clear loud and natural again. However i had to be careful not to overdrive the fullrange cabs by backing down on the bass a bit. Guess it was too good to be true.! Are there hipass inline XLR. gadgets for powerd fullrange speakers? I've seen some by SURE but I'm guessing they're only for mics?
On my vacation I visited some large churches in France build by the great caivaille coll. These things go awesome low to 16. Hz. A visceral and musical experience and intended by the composer. Now I am trying to convince my wife for a rel t9i.....
Mal Reynolds with the rel I am not going for quantity more for precision and nuance. There are two 10 inch drivers one is passive. And the filters are the best. Horses for courses. So with my bookshelf speakers they wil probably work fine.
The best filter is no filter. And that's the thing, the more you add, the more downsides you'll add. Also, I don't know the technical reasons for it, but I generally prefer a speaker unit that uses its natural roll-off characteristics as much as possible. Which is probably also why I always end up with 2-way speakers. Way less filtering and only two 'sides' of the frequency curve don't roll off naturally. Subwoofers should enhance, not repair. Still, I never ever heard one that worked properly. And I've had so many people try to prove it to me, they always sound added. It goes right for one or two songs, and then all of a sudden it's obvious that it's there.
I was always impressed with the sound of desktop computer systems for the money. The sound I get from my little Klipsch system is pretty amazing for $200. Does the little sub have a high pass filter or does the full signal go to the sub and monitors ? What I would like to do is imitate this and the closest I get is the SVS prime wireless sound base which has a sub out. But there is no filter either so I guess you are just adding bass to your monitors. And I guess these big companies have thought about that too but they are doing things for a good reason.When you look around computer speaker systems are all very small but I don't think that I'm the only one who wishes they could have the same thing in a much larger more powerful system that still sounds good.
I always find a lot of useful info here. Even when I know most of it already there's always something new to learn. A different angle to look at it I haven't thought of. Thanks and greetings from The Netherlands.
I thought the crossovers in most pa subs did just that low passed below the frequency and high passed above the frequency to different outputs (ie your mid/high out gets high passed, the internal amp gets low pass on its input) am I wrong?
I live in a caravan, and want a sub; it might be helpful to be able to high-pass it, the lowest of the lows might REALLY boom out of this place. Looks like i'm not going to be able to HP it though, not on the sub, nor in the AVR, coz there is not a demand for that function.
First do no harm? Nice principle. Wonder where I heard that before? Not sure to what extent lathe rumble, or the sound of a truck passing the recording studio adds, so I've eschewed a sub-woofer so far. In any event, my VAF DC-X speakers reproduce all but the bottom octave and that's good enough for me. OTOH I broke the don't change it maxim. My listening room is over bright, so I wired a small value resistor in series with the capacitor that feeds the tweeter. That's the only electronic crossover part in the DC-Xs. Frequency control of the woofer is by mechanical means.
Vandersteen speakers, starting with the "Quatro" model, and up, all use high pass filters. The high pass filter reduces the strain on your amplifier(s), by reducing the bass inputted to them. This means less bass to amplify. The speakers reverse the bass reduction, by way of their built-in amplifiers. The speaker's built-in amplifiers take on the job of compensating for the reduced bass. The result is that your main amplifiers work less hard (allowing them to do a better job with the mids and the highs), and the final output from the speakers are full range (well, I believe the Quatros go down to 30 hertz -- but the higher models are truly full range). These speakers are not cheap. But they do an amazing job. At their respective price points, they compete with speakers from other manufacturers that cost much more. Vandersteen also has sub-woofers, which are designed to work with the above mentioned speakers. The benefit is that the sub-woofers will allow the floor standing speakers to produce less bass (the subs will make up the difference). This means that the floor standing speakers will vibrate less, giving you an even better focused presentation. I have heard the above, using all flagship equipment, at an audio store. I heard an amazing Led Zeppelin II pressing (RL/SS stamper). It was spooky real.
Many high-end subs DO offer high pass filters. SVS, Velodyne and I am sure many others offer this feature. Perhaps this is not the same as what is being asked, but I believe it is. My SVS SB-13a Ultra has this features but I have never used it.
Thanks. the problem I have is that I use it for home theater and for 2 channel audio. I control all of my cross-over points, delay, volume, and frequency matching, using my receiver. I found this the best way when using a home theater receiver. If I only did two channel and had a pre-amp with no front delay or sub controls, then I would definitely use this method. My Pioneer SC-97 Elite supports both LFE and 2 channel audio for subs. I switch back and forth depending on whether I am listening to music or watching a movie. I wish standard stereo pre-amps had the capability to delay the front for proper phasing. The only pre-amps I could find, are models which support ARC or other room compensation. If this option were standard on regular pre-amps, then I would use a good pre-amp for two channel and switch to my HT receiver for movies. Oh well. Using my HT receiver, my bass is tight, phased correctly, and rolls off smoothly.
An active crossover IN the subwoofer case with an output for the main amplifier with their main speaker? Did I understand correctly? It is hard for me been a Mexican with a little Shakespeare , sorry
They just can't reproduce higher frequencies. It is a good idea to limit the upper frequencies, but they don't go much into the lower midrange frequencies. The other problem is that it takes an active crossover to do so.
I totally agree 😊 My large/ fullrange speakers is always set to large, and sub adds on top of that up to 80hz. One sub is actually close to me in the rear but I can never hear it. I do howerver FEEL the subs 🤪 which kind of is the point 🤣 (measured them to 8 hz, even though info on the subs say they are good down to 11hz.) That is probably roomgain or whatnot... 😊
I can't understand why doing the crossover in the line level would make the system worse. It would make sense to make the sub do more of the work, and the power amplifier would have less work to do on the main speakers.
From my background in car audio i would always HP the mains.... but you would try and get this to as low a frequency as possible. Occasionally i would also use a subsonic filter on the subwoofer.... just to protect it a little. This is probably because of the limitations of the installation of the speakers in a vehicle.
Well, subsonic filter is kinda dumb because subsonic is defined as below 20Hz and recordings never go below 20Hz, with CD is literally impossible. So subsonic filter only really filters what doesn't exist.
Why do you think below 20Hz is impossible on a CD? Because in theory, you can even encode DC in PCM which equals to 0Hz, in practice the low limit of a CD is 2Hz. But that's not the only reason why subsonic filters exist, but why would I explain that to you...
Now I think about it, I always read that CD's frequency range was from 20Hz to 22kHz, but never really thought about why, now I think about it, I'm not seeing why not since PCM data is just a set of amplitude samples over time, I guess I will have to go read a bit more about PCM, as for the subsonic filter, still the only way I can imagining is being necessary is if the amp (or some part of the signal chain) is introducing infra-sound into the signal but that would be wiser to fix the faulty component rather than adding/enabling a subsonic filter to it. (Yes I know amps have DC bias current and DC offset, but that's not what I'm talking about)
God you have a lot of content below 20Hz in movies, you can also get it from mic in PA. And subsonic filter is not sub-20, it's for filtering eveything the woofer can't play, whether it's below 30 or below 15Hz
They DO! It's called a Sub-sonic or infrasonic filter, more common in car audio than Home audio, helps prevent the woofer from unloading under the tuning freq. of big watt ported setups
What I've discovered is the sub puts out too much energy at 80Hz..so I've left the HP off and trimmed the LP to 50Hz and let the main speakers work down to their designed 45Hz..which is already rolling off -6DB from about 70Hz anyway.. To my ears this sounds best. My mains are Adam T5V
One issue is the attenuator on the sub only goes to -30dB.. So.. For my small project studio that isn't low enough.. I've compensated by sending a lower volume signal to the sub and then calibrated the SPL of the mains to my preferred level (79). OK confession time.. The sub is too large.. Some times in life we need to compromise and find solutions. Still tweaking but to my ears I think its sounding good. Interesting note. The T10 has a foot switch that cuts the sub out.. Very handy for listening with and without sub content. Note this is a mixing studio set up and not a music listening room per say.
Last words.. Like Paul says.. A system without a sub is not ideal.. It adds so much subtle contend that exists in the recordings or in my case electronic music creations.
My B&W ASW1000 subwoofer has speaker level in and high pass filtered speaker level out. They have proven themselves to be very competent speaker designers. Having said that. I've never found any benefit to not running any of my speakers full range.
Many subwoofers DO have high-pass filters for the mains. And many subwoofers have HP filters themselves (subsonic filters). So the answer to the question is just "they do," period. And obviously, they SHOULD, or else there will be extremely noticeable phase issues.
Of course, it's generally an active filter, as passive filters should not be used under any circumstances except by the poor. And the "way" good active filters sound is "perfect." Time correction is easy. Though I understand a lot of people like to use only technology available to the Pilgrims.
And I'm not really disagreeing with you Paul, more I'm saying there should be no mixing and matching. If you use a separate subwoofer enclosure, it should be part of a purpose-built system.
passive filter for a subwoofer is definitely not a thing for the poor :D active filter is much cheaper, especially in this case (low frequency) and of course it's also the better option.
Well sure, you're right of course, if we're comparing WELL-DESIGNED filters. A cheap passive filter is cheaper still than a cheap active filter, but is very unsatisfactory. But in the end you're right, active filters are better because they're cheaper FOR THE SAME PERFORMANCE. But the cheapest option regardless of performance is always a poorly-performing passive filter.
Great videos Paul, great info! Personal point of view: there is no need to stop hi frequencies for a woofer or sub, the driver is incapable to move so fast for hi frequencies (due mass), I have a prototype of driver that only render mid bass and low bass, there is a mechanical crossover built in it.
I got shitty speakers in my car and I'm going to add a subwoofer. I think in this scenario, a high pass filter is the right choice. Of course, when I got enough money to also replace the shitty speakers, I would probably remove the low pass filter.
I big problem with un-filtered front speakers is that if they are in a vented box you will get some nasty phase shifts when it starts to dropp off in the lower bass frequencys, if you add a subwoofer to that you will get a huge dipp around that frequency nomather how you turn that crossover knob at the woofer it will be wrong.. Thats why hi-pass filter most times makes it better, just get a really good filter.
I use a DSP for my 5.1 and when I put a high pass on the front speakers it sounds a bit flat in the mid bass range. with the way everything is set atm the bass from the sub does sound like its coming from the front speakers. I wont bother you with the weeks it took to get it to sound that way :P.
I have two SVS SB-13a which are 1500 watts each. Again, it isn't about hearing the subs, but blending them in properly. You can still have pounding bass but, if done correctly, the bass should be tight, and sounding as if it is coming from only the loudspeakers. While bass is not directional, I can clearly hear sub woofers which are not set up properly. You may not be able to tell where the bass is coming from but you can clearly differentiate the loudspeaker from the subs. It took me six months of moving subs around, speakers and playing with speaker delay. I have found tricks to make the bass match perfectly when using a home theater receiver.
If you think you're hearing or feeling 1500 watts peak, you're fooling yourself. By the time that thing produces that much power at any infrasonic frequency, it will sound extremely distorted and probably break something in your house. Especially if it's two. Ask yourself how many clean realistic watts can you get from a household 15 or 20 amp circuit. Use the Ohms law...it's all marketing hype. With two SVS's installed like you described, you're only hearing and feeling a few hundred watts depending on gain, volume and frequency. If you're level matching for good sound, it's even less...
No one said that we have the subwoofer cranked to max. Did we? I don't get your statement. Just as my 900 watt capable amp for my loudspeakers are not pushing 900 watts unless it is cranked and a 2 ohm load is present. I am not sure why you think because many have 1,000 watt amps or greater that we have to use all of the power. In most cases, my amps are only pulling between a 2 - 5 amp load. In comparison, a person may have a 700hp Ferrari, but it doesn't mean that you are using all 700 horses,, but it doesn't mean that you don't have the ability either. In regards to amps, your outlets or power conditioners come into play as well but NO ONE here is saying that they are utilizing all of their power. I run network switches which have 6,000 watt power supplies but they typically run at a 2,600 watt load. It doesn't mean that it CAN'T but typical use will be well under the max ratings. A 15 amp circuit will provide 1,800 watts max, on a dedicated outlet and a 20 amp can support up to 2,200 watts. There is power there being that I have several dedicated 15amp outlets in my house for my subs and another pair of dedicated 20 amp outlets for my amps. No they are not shared outlets.
I understand his answer and which made sense, but i also think he knows a little too much in order to break it down into layman’s terms for most people ha.
You fail to mention that if the main speakers and sub are overlapping their frequencies that it can cause an uneven response at their crossover points. You dont want a sub playing 20-80Hz and then the main speakers also playing down to 40-80 Hz as well. This is where parametric equalization (DSP correction) can help, often times found on very high end home theater receivers.
I found this looking through ideas for my setup at home. I'm not setting up a theater, or anything near that large. I'm wanting a high quality audio setup for my pc. I intend to be able to add on as necessary. The first part is just a headphone amp which will get me by for now. But it has pre-outs straight from the dac to go to another amp for later down the line attached to a pair of passive bookshelf speakers, then after that add a sub to the mix ... maybe. Stage 1(current): pc -> dac/amp -> headphones www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TW2JQNN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Stage 2: pc -> same dac -> new amp -> speakers(headphones obv still an option) www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GRt.FbG26AFW2 speakers www.amazon.com/TDA7498E-Amplifier-Receiver-Bluetooth-Integrated/dp/B07ZVS261F or www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7NJ4QN/?coliid=I2FUHBK30M28VJ&colid=2EHSKCVH5O4BN&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (with this stage 3 would just be to add a sub, no extra amp needed unless I want to get one later that's over 100W like below) Stage 3: $stage 2, but split the rcas from the dac pre-outs so that one goes to a separate mono amp for the sub. www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHG2LR9/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_NOt.FbQSTM0AH The mono amps I'm looking at all have a crossover frequency adjustment. I've been scraping everywhere I can searching for something that lets me split off so that only the sub got that low signal. What I get from this is that I wasted all that time? At stage 3, I don't need to worry about using any kind of hi/lo pass filters or find an impossible to find(for a reasonable price according to my budget constraints) active crossover to sit after the pre-outs and split to the 2 amps? The other option would be to get a 2.1 amp that has outputs for a sub, but most of those I can find have everything in my stage1 dac/amp, making it redundant except for the headphone amp. I'd prefer to addon rather than replace. The one linked above only has bluetooth as an extra source, which I would be skipping as I have no need of it. It's somewhat wasteful, but at least I won't have any major redundancy.
Answering the question before watching the video again. The truth is twofold. 1) Many subwoofers DO have a high pass filter, specifically for the subwoofer itself. This is done to prevent the sub amp from sending high power to the woofer at frequencies where the subwoofer is unloaded (such as about 16 Hz). Below the tuning frequency of a vented or passive radiator subwoofer, the enclosure and port/PR provide no meaningful acoustical load to the driver, and the only thing preventing the driver hitting its mechanical limit (with a loud "pop") is the stiffness of the suspension, but to get the resonant frequency of the driver pushed as low as possible, the suspension has already been made fairly soft. So you have to avoid driving the subwoofer below the tuning frequency (and this is true of most any speaker using a bass reflex enclosure), and a high pass filter is provided (usually around 20 Hz) to prevent that. The high pass filter in this case is not user selectable or user adjustable, because it is included in order to prevent possible damage to the driver from hitting its limits frequently. As for why subwoofers don't include a high pass filter for the main speakers, this is because your full range signal would need to pass all the way from the head amp (receiver or preamp/processor) to the subwoofer, then back again, passing through lots of cable and through active filtering electronics that, in the case of most powered subwoofers, would be of dubious quality for full range audio. That's why when there is a high pass crossover for the main speakers in a system, it is provided by the receiver or processor. There's one more wrinkle: Because speakers vary most greatly from one model to another in the area of bass extension and bass roll-off shape, you can't expect to use just one crossover "knob" setting on the subwoofer and obtain a perfect match between the subwoofer and your main speakers. If the speakers have a roll-off shape that doesn't complement the room's bass response and you end up with a hump, or a tapering-off of the speaker's response (though we're most concerned about the hump), there's no way to take care of the hump by setting the low pass to one frequency, then setting the high pass a bit higher than what would normally be needed, to pull down that hump. It would just be there.
Less neurotic behavior is better. Don't be so self-referential, it reminds the viewer that you're talking to a camera, and it makes the thing needlessly longer.
The greatest thing about this channel is that Paul McGowan doesn't use any filters. Paul, you are so comfortable in your own skin that even those crazy tangents you occasionally sail off on - are very entertaining! In the land of TH-cam - this is quite refreshing!
I think subs are the biggest YMMV piece of home audio equipment there is. In the right circumstances, they can add the perfect amount of low-end punch to whatever you're listening to. But it's so tough to get them dialed into that sweet spot between inaudible and boomy/obnoxious, and that sweet spot seems to always change depending on what you're listening to. I've spent hours dialing my sub in to sound just right when playing music only to have it rattle the fillings out of my teeth when I switch to a movie.
Great comment but theres one very important and often overlooked factor Paul. The speakers ideal placement for the best soundstage & imaging is 99% of the time not the perfect placement for perfect bass performance. You'll always have to compromise placement in a stereo 2.0 setup. Setting up the speakers for perfect soundstage & imaging then adding a HPF + Sub and placing it in the perfect location for bass performance. This is the only way to get a perfect full range sound.
The PreSonus Temblor 10 sub woofer has a foot switchable high pass filter. So you connect the powered speakers to the powered sub-woofer (so it's all done at line level). In the recording/mixing studio this is so you can use your main monitor speakers full range and with a click of the foot switch in a crossover at the set frequency (a dial on the back) for checking your sub-frequencies in your mix.
I don't really need 20 Hz to wobble the cones of my main speakers when it can be reached routed to a subwoofer assuming even the subwoofer can go that low.
My Paradigm PS 800 does have a fixed high pass filter on the low-level input.
For me, in my modest system, this works very well, but perhaps not for you, Paul.
I really like listening to you Paul.
Every time i look for an answer to something on the net, you show up with the answer. I'm glad because you're willing to explain everything to us. I wish you all the best in life.
Emotiva's SE line of subwoofers offer high-pass filtering when connected through their line level input/output connectors. High-pass frequency is switch-selectable (60, 80, 100 Hz). I have an SE-8 in my desktop system, which has a low-wattage class A amp driving Klipsch stand mount speakers. The main speakers roll off at about 45 Hz. I have the high-pass set for 80 Hz, so the the power amp and main speakers aren't struggling to reproduce sub bass that the speakers can't reproduce, anyway. Class A amps usually don't have a lot of power, so every little bit helps.
And they're not terribly expensive. The SE-8 runs $329 with free shipping to the Lower 48 states.
Bottom line, I'm delighted with the improvement the SE-8 made in my system.
I would redo this video with a different title. Because I thought you were talking about infrasonic filter on the sub.
Car Audio Inc in car audio we call it SUBsonic filtering. And i too fell for the title.
Liam Cooper that's a common misconception. Infrasonic is the proper term lol
Car Audio Inc yes i did find that sound just before. I like how the prefix "infra" can somehow mean both above and below. But yes you are correct.
^^^idk what the fuck i was on about there. Brain fart too early in the morning
clickbait at its finest
@@CarAudioInc infra means lower frequency than sound (you can hear) ultra means higher frequency.
Sub sonic means slower than sound the opposite of super sonic planes like Concorde.
My main system has a pair of ancient Goodman Magister Speakers. They have a tweeter, a mid range both non vented and a 15 inch woofer. The cabinet is of infinite baffle design. You don't need a subwoofer with these. The frequency response goes as low as about twenty cps. They sound wonderful. The bass is there in spades but it isn't forced. The soundstage is solid with the main singer generally firmly between the speakers, even though they are positioned for aesthetical reasons rather than sonically. They are a trifle big but my wife knew what was coming with me when we got married. That was over thirty years ago. They are still perfect and this is because unlike some speakers they don't need to be driven hard. They are rated at 40watts rms each but 10 watts a channel is ear busting and china rattling. They probably need 5-7 watts to fill the room perfectly. Installing good quality speaker cables made a huge improvement in the bass attack and with the soundstage..
Acoustic Research must have believed the same as Paul; often their speakers had just a capacitor on the tweeter, no filter at all on the full range woofer. I have two AR models, AR-30B and AR Rock Partners. I have 2nd order xovers (poly caps and air core inductors) on both, the -30B @ 1.8K and the RPs @2.5 K. (I tried a 2nd order on the RPs @ 2k, their advertised xover frequency, but they did not sound good; I raised it to 2.5k and it made a big difference in fullness and warmth.) Both models sound really good as is. I am thinking of removing the xover from the RPs and going back to the way AR sent them out, with just a 5uF cap on the tweeter, to see if I can hear the difference. Fingers crossed!
Got the mods done. I ended up with 13uF on the tweets and a .4mH inductor on the woofer (1st order Butterworth, 6 ohm T and 5 ohm W, @ 2K) Highs are bright, lows are solid. I had to add the inductor to the woofer to eliminate some distortion. Thanks Paul!
I always thought that adjusting the crossover on the sub would change the sound at the subwoofer out. Had I gotten a subwoofer I would have expected myself to roll off the bass on the main speakers. Thanks Paul! That was educational.
Why not use DSP crossovers instead of electronic ones? Wouldn't DSP crossovers correct phase shift?
Very well said, Paul. Subwoofers enhance.
I have a pair of Audiostatic electrostatic speakers which are very bass shy and the diaphragms will slap against the stators causing arcing at medium volume.I believe they can't handle much below 100hz .I'm looking for a subwoofer that will stop those low frequencies from being fed back to them.
so in my case, my sub does have a High pas OUTPUT what can I plug to my HIGH PASS OUTPUT or what is the out put for if this is an active sub
I know this video is now 5 years old but maybe I misunderstood the response and exactly how the question was asked. I was under the assumption that the viewer was asking about why a subwoofer that has a Low-Pass Crossover Built in that is from what I have seen most adjustable from 40hz-250hz, but these are Low Pass Filters rather than adding a High Pass Filter in combination to form a Bandwidth Filter which would filter the signal into the subwoofer amplifier to be High/Low Pass at such a rate that the subwoofer amplifier wouldn't receive the unusable frequencies that the subwoofer wasn't capable or desired to reproduce. I had realized that because in car audio subwoofer amplifiers a high pass filter is offered on selected amplifiers in the form of subsonic filter. This isn't a feature I've seen much of since the common usage of DSP Units being installed in the signal chain which allows active control of any frequency in a three octave range with adjustable attack delay and release. I will say the DSP unit making people duck when a gun shot is played because it sounds like an actual gunshot these days makes me smile when I see it happen.
I'm building a speaker and was just googling around the web. But this is the best explanation videoi could've landed on haha. thanks you're great
You made the statement "A subwoofer should never be heard" 5:24 which I disagree with. It does depend on what type of music you listen to, but if you like bass heavy music (Electronic or Rap) then a subwoofer should be a huge part of your sound.
Zatore I think you misunderstood the statement.
A subwoofer should never be heard because the woofer in your bookshelf or floorstanding speakers does the bass that you hear and the subwoofer what you should feel !!!
I like my mains left alone, no HP filter , then i match my sub LP filter to the spot the mains start losing steam. Think of it like adding octaves to an otherwise great speaker.
the music itself should provide that, and the playback system should be as flat as possible to recreate the feeling of heavy bass if you listen to tracks with heavy bass. What about tracks that dont need all that bass? what about natural sounding speech? Turning up a sub too much will ruin those things.
Steevenoo Humans do hear down to about 20hz so... Subwoofers that produce stuff that we can NOT hear are VERY rare!
Awesome explanation,
Science and art.
God bless you
JL Audio make an external crossover for integrating subwoofer(s) and main speakers. And they, perhaps not surprisingly, advocate the separation of bass frequencies from the main speakers. However, it isn't cheap! I have no experience on which to base any judgement. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has used such a system
they do, subsonic filters are used in car audio frequently.
I am considering a MINIDSP HD for use as a crossover at say 70 hz. The reason is I have book shelf speakers with a 5" woofer and a higher volumes the cone excursion is high and I would assume distortion sets in and worried about blowing them. I am considering the trade off off of adding additional electronics, cost and complexity VS how the speaker is behaving at the lower registers. I do listen to a good amount of bass heavy music.
Brian Simmons why not use a passive crossover network rather than an active one? A dsp will only reduce the quality of the sound passing through, add latency, and cost much more money than an passive crossover.
Yeah, that idea about having a very simple signal path is nice and everything, but if you don't have a lot of heavy acoustic treatment in your room, EQ is the way to go. And that's the biggest advantage of having a DSP. And MiniDSP has a very powerful EQ.
AS I understand it, there are issue with correct cut off frequency Vs impedance, efficiency loss, no flexibility on frequency or slope or type of filter and I wonder about the availability of a 70Hz high pass filter. I do have a pair of FMODs line level high pass filters but I have never been a fan of them. For $200 USD you get a crazy flexible crossover, a great parametric EQ and time alignment. So maybe for $100 more than a passive you get all of that. EQ is really the main point of MINIDSP but comes in second for what I am looking for.
I love that expression you make and the look of your face when pausing at 1:32. I also love the channel Paul, always interesting topics and good answers given to the question at hand.
Do tweeters simply use series capacitors to filter lower frequencies?
A capacitor functions like a high pass filter and a resistance functions like a low pass filter. So, yes, generally.
mindtraveller100 Other way around afaik. Think about a transformer - Transformers work only on AC so the closer to DC the less signal they pass. So a coil is a high pass filter. And capacitors at the right specs will close the “gaps” in high frequency signals leaving only the low frequencies behind, so capacitor = low pass filter.
Can a speaker be used as a subwoofer or are they constructed differently for the different frequencies?
Following part of the last things you just said about assuming the speakers is fine as it is, are you saying that when we add subwoofers to a stereo system we shouldn't also highpass the signal of the "main" speakers? If we don't do that then we could risk not having a controlled "flatter" response and also not being able to improve that main speaker mid ranges behaviour by removing the lower frequencies. Does it hurt so much do this?
Great video and explanation. Thank you..
Excellent explanation! Thanks. I have the PVxp sub with 2 high pass outputs for full range speakers. This is the maim reason i bought it. For that convenience! I should now theoretically leave my electronic xover home and just use the built in xover in the sub!
Well....The full range cabs sounded muddy AND their volume dropped down drastically. I immediately reconfigured it to mixer to full range cabs to sub and it was clear loud and natural again. However i had to be careful not to overdrive the fullrange cabs by backing down on the bass a bit. Guess it was too good to be true.!
Are there hipass inline XLR. gadgets for powerd fullrange speakers? I've seen some by SURE but I'm guessing they're only for mics?
On my vacation I visited some large churches in France build by the great caivaille coll. These things go awesome low to 16. Hz. A visceral and musical experience and intended by the composer. Now I am trying to convince my wife for a rel t9i.....
Mal Reynolds with the rel I am not going for quantity more for precision and nuance. There are two 10 inch drivers one is passive. And the filters are the best. Horses for courses. So with my bookshelf speakers they wil probably work fine.
Mal Reynolds at least I am not the one insulting people’s intelligence and preferences.
What about digital crossovers before the signal reaches the DACs? Well designed DSP has no delay or extra THD like analog circuits do, right?
The best filter is no filter.
And that's the thing, the more you add, the more downsides you'll add.
Also, I don't know the technical reasons for it, but I generally prefer a speaker unit that uses its natural roll-off characteristics as much as possible.
Which is probably also why I always end up with 2-way speakers. Way less filtering and only two 'sides' of the frequency curve don't roll off naturally.
Subwoofers should enhance, not repair.
Still, I never ever heard one that worked properly. And I've had so many people try to prove it to me, they always sound added.
It goes right for one or two songs, and then all of a sudden it's obvious that it's there.
You haven't heard the TBI Emperor DPM-8 subwoofers, which are a truly unique design. All else is compromised and reshuffled BS.
subwoofer should be an integral part of the system, not an extension or you'll end up with an unsolvable peak.
I can't agree more... with the person that makes the question 😅
My Harman Kardon AVR3600 does exactly that. It is called Bass Management.
I was always impressed with the sound of desktop computer systems for the money. The sound I get from my little Klipsch system is pretty amazing for $200. Does the little sub have a high pass filter or does the full signal go to the sub and monitors ? What I would like to do is imitate this and the closest I get is the SVS prime wireless sound base which has a sub out. But there is no filter either so I guess you are just adding bass to your monitors. And I guess these big companies have thought about that too but they are doing things for a good reason.When you look around computer speaker systems are all very small but I don't think that I'm the only one who wishes they could have the same thing in a much larger more powerful system that still sounds good.
I always find a lot of useful info here.
Even when I know most of it already there's always something new to learn. A different angle to look at it I haven't thought of.
Thanks and greetings from The Netherlands.
Very nice explanation, I've wanted to know this for a while
I thought the crossovers in most pa subs did just that low passed below the frequency and high passed above the frequency to different outputs (ie your mid/high out gets high passed, the internal amp gets low pass on its input) am I wrong?
That noted I don't use them I use subs kn a send because when mixing a band certain things you don't want in subs like the vocal mics or the cymbals.
I live in a caravan, and want a sub; it might be helpful to be able to high-pass it, the lowest of the lows might REALLY boom out of this place. Looks like i'm not going to be able to HP it though, not on the sub, nor in the AVR, coz there is not a demand for that function.
In the very next breath Paul will extoll the virtues of a highly complex preamplifier in the path. Basically anything Paul doesn't sell is bad.
First do no harm? Nice principle. Wonder where I heard that before? Not sure to what extent lathe rumble, or the sound of a truck passing the recording studio adds, so I've eschewed a sub-woofer so far. In any event, my VAF DC-X speakers reproduce all but the bottom octave and that's good enough for me.
OTOH I broke the don't change it maxim. My listening room is over bright, so I wired a small value resistor in series with the capacitor that feeds the tweeter. That's the only electronic crossover part in the DC-Xs. Frequency control of the woofer is by mechanical means.
So much awesome info from you Paul. Thank you.
Vandersteen speakers, starting with the "Quatro" model, and up, all use high pass filters.
The high pass filter reduces the strain on your amplifier(s), by reducing the bass inputted to them. This means less bass to amplify.
The speakers reverse the bass reduction, by way of their built-in amplifiers. The speaker's built-in amplifiers take on the job of compensating for the reduced bass. The result is that your main amplifiers work less hard (allowing them to do a better job with the mids and the highs), and the final output from the speakers are full range (well, I believe the Quatros go down to 30 hertz -- but the higher models are truly full range).
These speakers are not cheap. But they do an amazing job.
At their respective price points, they compete with speakers from other manufacturers that cost much more.
Vandersteen also has sub-woofers, which are designed to work with the above mentioned speakers. The benefit is that the sub-woofers will allow the floor standing speakers to produce less bass (the subs will make up the difference). This means that the floor standing speakers will vibrate less, giving you an even better focused presentation.
I have heard the above, using all flagship equipment, at an audio store. I heard an amazing Led Zeppelin II pressing (RL/SS stamper). It was spooky real.
Many high-end subs DO offer high pass filters. SVS, Velodyne and I am sure many others offer this feature. Perhaps this is not the same as what is being asked, but I believe it is. My SVS SB-13a Ultra has this features but I have never used it.
Thanks. the problem I have is that I use it for home theater and for 2 channel audio. I control all of my cross-over points, delay, volume, and frequency matching, using my receiver. I found this the best way when using a home theater receiver. If I only did two channel and had a pre-amp with no front delay or sub controls, then I would definitely use this method. My Pioneer SC-97 Elite supports both LFE and 2 channel audio for subs. I switch back and forth depending on whether I am listening to music or watching a movie. I wish standard stereo pre-amps had the capability to delay the front for proper phasing. The only pre-amps I could find, are models which support ARC or other room compensation. If this option were standard on regular pre-amps, then I would use a good pre-amp for two channel and switch to my HT receiver for movies. Oh well. Using my HT receiver, my bass is tight, phased correctly, and rolls off smoothly.
An active crossover IN the subwoofer case with an output for the main amplifier with their main speaker? Did I understand correctly? It is hard for me been a Mexican with a little Shakespeare , sorry
They just can't reproduce higher frequencies. It is a good idea to limit the upper frequencies, but they don't go much into the lower midrange frequencies. The other problem is that it takes an active crossover to do so.
I totally agree 😊
My large/ fullrange speakers is always set to large, and sub adds on top of that up to 80hz. One sub is actually close to me in the rear but I can never hear it. I do howerver FEEL the subs 🤪 which kind of is the point 🤣 (measured them to 8 hz, even though info on the subs say they are good down to 11hz.) That is probably roomgain or whatnot... 😊
also, maybe eq and room correction should happen before the dac makes it into an analog signal
and crossover slopes
Amazing video thank you 🙏🏽
My Revel SUB 30 has a high pass filter.
I have one
what if we put the filter on the output, why is that bad?
Great quest - great answer! I have been wondering this as I build my 2.1 desktop system. Thank you for explaining things clearly for a noob like me.
I'd just like to add that I notice a lot of subwoofers have low pass crossovers. I wonder why those might be okay instead of HPF?
No. A LPF does the opposite of what a HPF does.
I can't understand why doing the crossover in the line level would make the system worse. It would make sense to make the sub do more of the work, and the power amplifier would have less work to do on the main speakers.
That highpass filter suggested in the mail would only work, if your main speakers are wired to your subwoofer, which is rarely the case.
No the signal passes from the preamp to the sub and then to the power amp, in my sub anyway.
One day one I can afford your products . Can't wait.
Any update on speakers being available?
From my background in car audio i would always HP the mains.... but you would try and get this to as low a frequency as possible. Occasionally i would also use a subsonic filter on the subwoofer.... just to protect it a little. This is probably because of the limitations of the installation of the speakers in a vehicle.
I am of the same opinion .A capacitor will do a 90 degrees shift and smear the signal and that is a no-no !
My answer would be that usually the subwoofer is a single mono unit, its signal won't be useful to other speakers
which are all stereo pairs.
Wouldn't a high pass filter be good to limit cone excursion?
Yes, that's also what it's used for (subsonic filter)
Well, subsonic filter is kinda dumb because subsonic is defined as below 20Hz and recordings never go below 20Hz, with CD is literally impossible. So subsonic filter only really filters what doesn't exist.
Why do you think below 20Hz is impossible on a CD? Because in theory, you can even encode DC in PCM which equals to 0Hz, in practice the low limit of a CD is 2Hz. But that's not the only reason why subsonic filters exist, but why would I explain that to you...
Now I think about it, I always read that CD's frequency range was from 20Hz to 22kHz, but never really thought about why, now I think about it, I'm not seeing why not since PCM data is just a set of amplitude samples over time, I guess I will have to go read a bit more about PCM, as for the subsonic filter, still the only way I can imagining is being necessary is if the amp (or some part of the signal chain) is introducing infra-sound into the signal but that would be wiser to fix the faulty component rather than adding/enabling a subsonic filter to it.
(Yes I know amps have DC bias current and DC offset, but that's not what I'm talking about)
God you have a lot of content below 20Hz in movies, you can also get it from mic in PA. And subsonic filter is not sub-20, it's for filtering eveything the woofer can't play, whether it's below 30 or below 15Hz
Your sprout activates a high pass on the main speakers when a sub is connected 😉
And remember if you don't have a sub you don't have a pipe organ! Ha
They DO! It's called a Sub-sonic or infrasonic filter, more common in car audio than Home audio, helps prevent the woofer from unloading under the tuning freq. of big watt ported setups
Also popular in Pro Audio! I set my PA Subs to low pass at 100Hz and high pass at 35-40 depending on the room. Really helps keep things clean.
My presonus T10 high pass at 80Hz and a low pass from 50 to 130Hz
You always have the answers.. Amazing
What I've discovered is the sub puts out too much energy at 80Hz..so I've left the HP off and trimmed the LP to 50Hz and let the main speakers work down to their designed 45Hz..which is already rolling off -6DB from about 70Hz anyway.. To my ears this sounds best.
My mains are Adam T5V
One issue is the attenuator on the sub only goes to -30dB.. So.. For my small project studio that isn't low enough..
I've compensated by sending a lower volume signal to the sub and then calibrated the SPL of the mains to my preferred level (79). OK confession time.. The sub is too large.. Some times in life we need to compromise and find solutions.
Still tweaking but to my ears I think its sounding good.
Interesting note. The T10 has a foot switch that cuts the sub out.. Very handy for listening with and without sub content.
Note this is a mixing studio set up and not a music listening room per say.
Last words.. Like Paul says.. A system without a sub is not ideal.. It adds so much subtle contend that exists in the recordings or in my case electronic music creations.
lol i trust the manufacture has build the speaker + crossover ... to a price point my friend to a price point
i may need a sub-woofer, but i don't need to annoy my neighbor.
You definitely need one, and your neighbor is asking for it.
My B&W ASW1000 subwoofer has speaker level in and high pass filtered speaker level out. They have proven themselves to be very competent speaker designers.
Having said that. I've never found any benefit to not running any of my speakers full range.
@ 4:30 right on mr Paul
My revel sub has a low and high pass filter
Many subwoofers DO have high-pass filters for the mains. And many subwoofers have HP filters themselves (subsonic filters). So the answer to the question is just "they do," period. And obviously, they SHOULD, or else there will be extremely noticeable phase issues.
Of course, it's generally an active filter, as passive filters should not be used under any circumstances except by the poor. And the "way" good active filters sound is "perfect." Time correction is easy. Though I understand a lot of people like to use only technology available to the Pilgrims.
And I'm not really disagreeing with you Paul, more I'm saying there should be no mixing and matching. If you use a separate subwoofer enclosure, it should be part of a purpose-built system.
passive filter for a subwoofer is definitely not a thing for the poor :D active filter is much cheaper, especially in this case (low frequency) and of course it's also the better option.
Well sure, you're right of course, if we're comparing WELL-DESIGNED filters. A cheap passive filter is cheaper still than a cheap active filter, but is very unsatisfactory. But in the end you're right, active filters are better because they're cheaper FOR THE SAME PERFORMANCE. But the cheapest option regardless of performance is always a poorly-performing passive filter.
Great videos Paul, great info!
Personal point of view: there is no need to stop hi frequencies for a woofer or sub, the driver is incapable to move so fast for hi frequencies (due mass), I have a prototype of driver that only render mid bass and low bass, there is a mechanical crossover built in it.
I added 100hz @ 12db high-pass filters to the main out on my Dayton Sub-800 for $45. Problem solved.
Hi. What are these filters? Thx .. Are they line level? Or speaker level?
I got shitty speakers in my car and I'm going to add a subwoofer. I think in this scenario, a high pass filter is the right choice. Of course, when I got enough money to also replace the shitty speakers, I would probably remove the low pass filter.
I big problem with un-filtered front speakers is that if they are in a vented box you will get some nasty phase shifts when it starts to dropp off in the lower bass frequencys, if you add a subwoofer to that you will get a huge dipp around that frequency nomather how you turn that crossover knob at the woofer it will be wrong..
Thats why hi-pass filter most times makes it better, just get a really good filter.
Should have concluded with "using the lpf of the subwoofer" that's how you fill in those gaps.
there are subwoofers with high pass filters my asw 650 has a high pas filter
I use a DSP for my 5.1 and when I put a high pass on the front speakers it sounds a bit flat in the mid bass range. with the way everything is set atm the bass from the sub does sound like its coming from the front speakers. I wont bother you with the weeks it took to get it to sound that way :P.
Best is to have a seperate power amp for each speaker, no crossovers needed.
Yep mono blocks to me lifted my enjoyment of music so much more than previously
The next guy who tels me , "I have a 1000watt sub " again , gets it lol
I have a 1000 wattt sub. Do I win? What do I get? lol
I have two SVS SB-13a which are 1500 watts each. Again, it isn't about hearing the subs, but blending them in properly. You can still have pounding bass but, if done correctly, the bass should be tight, and sounding as if it is coming from only the loudspeakers. While bass is not directional, I can clearly hear sub woofers which are not set up properly. You may not be able to tell where the bass is coming from but you can clearly differentiate the loudspeaker from the subs. It took me six months of moving subs around, speakers and playing with speaker delay. I have found tricks to make the bass match perfectly when using a home theater receiver.
If you think you're hearing or feeling 1500 watts peak, you're fooling yourself. By the time that thing produces that much power at any infrasonic frequency, it will sound extremely distorted and probably break something in your house. Especially if it's two. Ask yourself how many clean realistic watts can you get from a household 15 or 20 amp circuit. Use the Ohms law...it's all marketing hype. With two SVS's installed like you described, you're only hearing and feeling a few hundred watts depending on gain, volume and frequency. If you're level matching for good sound, it's even less...
Nah I don't have a 1000 watt sub. I have 2 500 watt subs.
No one said that we have the subwoofer cranked to max. Did we? I don't get your statement. Just as my 900 watt capable amp for my loudspeakers are not pushing 900 watts unless it is cranked and a 2 ohm load is present. I am not sure why you think because many have 1,000 watt amps or greater that we have to use all of the power. In most cases, my amps are only pulling between a 2 - 5 amp load. In comparison, a person may have a 700hp Ferrari, but it doesn't mean that you are using all 700 horses,, but it doesn't mean that you don't have the ability either. In regards to amps, your outlets or power conditioners come into play as well but NO ONE here is saying that they are utilizing all of their power. I run network switches which have 6,000 watt power supplies but they typically run at a 2,600 watt load. It doesn't mean that it CAN'T but typical use will be well under the max ratings. A 15 amp circuit will provide 1,800 watts max, on a dedicated outlet and a 20 amp can support up to 2,200 watts. There is power there being that I have several dedicated 15amp outlets in my house for my subs and another pair of dedicated 20 amp outlets for my amps. No they are not shared outlets.
That's nerves Paul.
Ummm many do....
PreSonus subs have high pass filters. I have one.
He should simply use a volume-knob, close his eyes and simply listen during placement. If it sounds perfect, stop touching the speakers!
I understand his answer and which made sense, but i also think he knows a little too much in order to break it down into layman’s terms for most people ha.
You fail to mention that if the main speakers and sub are overlapping their frequencies that it can cause an uneven response at their crossover points. You dont want a sub playing 20-80Hz and then the main speakers also playing down to 40-80 Hz as well. This is where parametric equalization (DSP correction) can help, often times found on very high end home theater receivers.
Well, when i am start do it something ,always must go to toilet.
Srednio naJeza haha same
Dude your cool!!!!
i press play and.. Bam! nose itches
Dr. Bose (RIP) is turning in his grave today. Bose products seem to be defiant of this philosophy.
I found this looking through ideas for my setup at home. I'm not setting up a theater, or anything near that large.
I'm wanting a high quality audio setup for my pc. I intend to be able to add on as necessary. The first part is just a headphone amp which will get me by for now. But it has pre-outs straight from the dac to go to another amp for later down the line attached to a pair of passive bookshelf speakers, then after that add a sub to the mix ... maybe.
Stage 1(current): pc -> dac/amp -> headphones
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TW2JQNN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Stage 2: pc -> same dac -> new amp -> speakers(headphones obv still an option)
www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GRt.FbG26AFW2 speakers
www.amazon.com/TDA7498E-Amplifier-Receiver-Bluetooth-Integrated/dp/B07ZVS261F
or
www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7NJ4QN/?coliid=I2FUHBK30M28VJ&colid=2EHSKCVH5O4BN&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (with this stage 3 would just be to add a sub, no extra amp needed unless I want to get one later that's over 100W like below)
Stage 3: $stage 2, but split the rcas from the dac pre-outs so that one goes to a separate mono amp for the sub.
www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHG2LR9/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_NOt.FbQSTM0AH
The mono amps I'm looking at all have a crossover frequency adjustment. I've been scraping everywhere I can searching for something that lets me split off so that only the sub got that low signal. What I get from this is that I wasted all that time? At stage 3, I don't need to worry about using any kind of hi/lo pass filters or find an impossible to find(for a reasonable price according to my budget constraints) active crossover to sit after the pre-outs and split to the 2 amps? The other option would be to get a 2.1 amp that has outputs for a sub, but most of those I can find have everything in my stage1 dac/amp, making it redundant except for the headphone amp. I'd prefer to addon rather than replace. The one linked above only has bluetooth as an extra source, which I would be skipping as I have no need of it. It's somewhat wasteful, but at least I won't have any major redundancy.
Answering the question before watching the video again. The truth is twofold. 1) Many subwoofers DO have a high pass filter, specifically for the subwoofer itself. This is done to prevent the sub amp from sending high power to the woofer at frequencies where the subwoofer is unloaded (such as about 16 Hz). Below the tuning frequency of a vented or passive radiator subwoofer, the enclosure and port/PR provide no meaningful acoustical load to the driver, and the only thing preventing the driver hitting its mechanical limit (with a loud "pop") is the stiffness of the suspension, but to get the resonant frequency of the driver pushed as low as possible, the suspension has already been made fairly soft. So you have to avoid driving the subwoofer below the tuning frequency (and this is true of most any speaker using a bass reflex enclosure), and a high pass filter is provided (usually around 20 Hz) to prevent that. The high pass filter in this case is not user selectable or user adjustable, because it is included in order to prevent possible damage to the driver from hitting its limits frequently. As for why subwoofers don't include a high pass filter for the main speakers, this is because your full range signal would need to pass all the way from the head amp (receiver or preamp/processor) to the subwoofer, then back again, passing through lots of cable and through active filtering electronics that, in the case of most powered subwoofers, would be of dubious quality for full range audio. That's why when there is a high pass crossover for the main speakers in a system, it is provided by the receiver or processor. There's one more wrinkle: Because speakers vary most greatly from one model to another in the area of bass extension and bass roll-off shape, you can't expect to use just one crossover "knob" setting on the subwoofer and obtain a perfect match between the subwoofer and your main speakers. If the speakers have a roll-off shape that doesn't complement the room's bass response and you end up with a hump, or a tapering-off of the speaker's response (though we're most concerned about the hump), there's no way to take care of the hump by setting the low pass to one frequency, then setting the high pass a bit higher than what would normally be needed, to pull down that hump. It would just be there.
Less Schtick please
Your nose itches when you pick something up because you are allergic to work.
high pass to sub??? thats stupid
Less neurotic behavior is better. Don't be so self-referential, it reminds the viewer that you're talking to a camera, and it makes the thing needlessly longer.
Sub?