How are BER and SNR Related for PSK and QAM?

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 67

  • @Timmay08TOTHELIMIT
    @Timmay08TOTHELIMIT 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Prof Iain Collings is that you? Legend of a lecturer mate!

  • @fadilhabibidanufane9593
    @fadilhabibidanufane9593 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Excellent explanation! For someone like me who's doing research on wireless communication with next to zero background in information theory, your videos are heaven's gifts. Can't wait to learn about more advanced concepts, perhaps polar codes or Non-orthogonal multiple access ;)

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks. Glad the videos are helpful! I've added your two suggestions to my "to-do" list (which is getting quite long).

  • @taniaguillot2580
    @taniaguillot2580 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just watched the 14 videos of this series and understand comms so much better now after 3 months of taking the subject and not knowing whats going on. I have the final exam in 2 weeks so thank you so much for the help!

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Glad the videos helped! Good luck in your exam.

  • @euqinuykcaj
    @euqinuykcaj 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, I'm going to enroll at next spring as a ECE graduate student, and I am appreciated for you channel which helps me a lot for picking up so many knowledge that I do not have.
    Thanks again!

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm so glad! Thanks for your comments. It's great to hear. Good luck with your future studies.

  • @NathanBi
    @NathanBi 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good video! Here is a question: At the time 8:31 in your video, you mentioned that BER for BPSK and QPSK are not the same. However, some text book say that the BER are the same for BPSK and QPSK. I wonder the intrinsic principle of this question.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Great question. It's something that often confuses people. You've given me the idea that I should add this as a topic for a future video. To be precise, I didn't say that the BER are not the same. I said that the SER are not the same. There's a difference. In summary, a BPSK symbol exactly corresponds to a bit, so BER = SER for BPSK. But for QPSK, each symbol corresponds to 2 bits, and so the BER and SER are not the same. For QPSK, the SER is higher than the BER, since when you make symbol errors in QPSK, often only 1 of the 2 corresponding bits is in error.

  • @georgepalafox5967
    @georgepalafox5967 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Professor! Excellent explanation. I now have a better understanding in regards to when it is better to use PSK vs QAM. Q: why do we care about 10^-6 or higher BER? It's one but effort every 1M or higher bits. Doesn't seem like something noticeable. Why not go with 10^-4 and and conserve EBNO? I guess perhaps a better question would be what applications require extremely low BER? Thanks.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's a great question. Most applications wouldn't be overly affected by 1 error in a million, but some would - for example, financial records transfer, etc. In any case, even 1 error in a million will cause the TCP layer to request a re-transfer of that frame.

  • @AbuSous2000PR
    @AbuSous2000PR ปีที่แล้ว

    The ending is amazing. Many thx Prof.

  • @cr1901
    @cr1901 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is the SNR for 16-QAM worst-case, where you're choosing two symbols out of the constellation with the minimum amplitude 50% of the time? Or are you calculating SNR based on equal probability (1/16) for all symbols in the constellation?
    For instance, I see "PAM4 has an SNR 9.5dB worse than NRZ for an equivalent amplitude" in a number of references. But this calculation only works for unipolar PAM4, where you're only sending either 0 or A/3 50% of the time, compared to NRZ sending 0 or A 50% of the time:
    10*log(A^2/2) - 10*log(A^2/18) = 10*log(9) = 9.54
    Any other probability for symbols {0, A/3, 2A/3, A} (or different DC bias, for that matter) will give a different SNR reduction compared to NRZ {0, A} 50% of the time.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  ปีที่แล้ว

      SNR is the ratio of the power of the signal, divided by the power of the noise. So yes, the power of the signal is a function of the probabilities of each symbol in the constellation being sent. In general it is assumed that the data is sufficiently compressed (or random) such that each constellation point is equally likely.

  • @stringstoparadise2392
    @stringstoparadise2392 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    hello sir, @13:50 why in psk we need not to worry about the amplitude of the received waveform after all its the amplitude of the I/q components which is deciding the phase of the received symbol (like in qpsk I=SQRT(Eb/2), q=SQRT(Eb/2) ) where phase = arctan(q/i) Eb=Ac^2*T/2 which is depending upon the amplitude of the received signal

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but yes of course you would like to have a system with a strong signal amplitude, so in that sense you "care" are it - but that's not what I meant. What I meant was that you can tolerate errors in the amplitude estimate and yet still detect the data correctly, because all of the data symbols have the same amplitude. This would not be possible if you were using a modulation format that encoded some of the data into the amplitude, such as in QAM, ASK, and APSK.

  • @mattsymington487
    @mattsymington487 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does the BPSK graph represent what you’d see on a spectrum analyzer? Great video btw helped me learn a lot more about my job

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Spectrum analysers show you the "spectrum". ie. the signal in the frequency domain. Glad you liked the video. Perhaps this one will help to understand the frequency domain a bit more: "How are Data Rate and Bandwidth Related?" th-cam.com/video/ZBSvMbO0mPQ/w-d-xo.html

  • @TheBartona
    @TheBartona 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Video! However, you define SNR as A^2/N_0. Shouldn't this be A^2/(N_0/2*BW) as N_0 is the noise power spectral density, not the noise power itself?

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ah yes, this is a very common cause for confusion. I'm going to make a couple of videos to explain this in more detail, so keep a look out for them in the next week or so on the channel. The problem comes from the fact that bandwidth hasn't even been mentioned at all! Technically, non-band-limited white noise has infinite power, so if we are going to consider signals with finite energy, sent over infinite bandwidth channels, then the SNR would be zero. To get around this, many textbooks implicitly define SNR to be "Signal Power to Noise Power Spectral Density" (or in other words, noise power per unit bandwidth), but they often don't make this explicit, or try to explain it. Hopefully my upcoming videos on this topic will help.

  • @eswnl1
    @eswnl1 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder why this graph uses SER vs SNR and the other graph in the other video is BER vs Eb/No? Is it to do with SER and SNR being connected to bandwidth while the other graph isn’t?

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  ปีที่แล้ว

      This video might help: "What are SNR and Eb/No?" th-cam.com/video/bNYvXr6tzXQ/w-d-xo.html

  • @igorpetrov6683
    @igorpetrov6683 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent explanation !

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad you liked it!

  • @soumyaneogy9522
    @soumyaneogy9522 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the excellent video . As always you made an awesome video and with utmost clarity . I had one question . I am unable to understand that while plotting the graph at 1:14 in your video why the gaussian noise is shifted with mean of +A . The gaussian noise must have a zero mean as you mentioned . So my question is about why the pdf is shifted by +A .

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It is the (conditional) probability density function for the output of the channel - not the p.d.f. of the noise. Check out this video for more insights (starting at the 9:06 mark): th-cam.com/video/X2cJ8vAc0MU/w-d-xo.html

  • @youcefboukezzoula4479
    @youcefboukezzoula4479 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good presentation

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad you think so!

  • @laughingtweets
    @laughingtweets 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Hi prof. Which book do you recommend to read for these concepts?

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      J.G. Proakis, “Digital Communications”

    • @laughingtweets
      @laughingtweets 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@iain_explains thanks

  • @falcon-xm3uo
    @falcon-xm3uo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the excellent video series - very clear. Can you plz make a video on Signal to Quantization Noise Ratio (SQNR)? Thanks

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for the suggestion, I've added it to the "to do" list.

  • @mohammedbenlamlih8957
    @mohammedbenlamlih8957 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent explanation. Another lesson to learn from this video: PPT slides is NOT the best way to teach. White board is the way to go. Thanks again.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Glad it was helpful! And yes, I made a decision back in 2018 when I started making these videos, that I wanted to focus on the ideas, and not on wiz-bang video production and animated graphics technologies, which quite often distract from the message. For example, I'm determined never to make a video where I'm writing on a glass wall 😉

  • @ana-rl1mw
    @ana-rl1mw 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great explanation, thanks prof. !

  • @mickey11324
    @mickey11324 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You are amazing. keep the great work ! thank you !

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks. I'm glad you like the videos.

  • @aetrew5499
    @aetrew5499 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for the video, much appreciated.

  • @balcofono666
    @balcofono666 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Could you cover APSK Vs QAM?

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for the suggestion, I've added it to my "to do" list.

  • @tuongnguyen9391
    @tuongnguyen9391 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a question
    Does the receiver actually know the SNR. Recall that SNR is signal power over noise power. It is quite easy to measure to signal power given the appropriate apparatus but how can we measure noise power ?

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's an excellent question. The noise power can be estimated from measuring the "received signal" when there is no signal being transmitted. The received signal power is only really able to be estimated by measuring the received signal when known training data is being transmitted, and averaging over many training symbols in order to "average out" the noise.

  • @nikhilv3231
    @nikhilv3231 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Sir, could you make videos on How pulse shaping affects the wave form of a Phase modulated Signal(BPSK/QPSK). When there is no pulse shaping is present, the Envelope of the Signal happens to be Constant and only the phase is affected. But for the case when the message is shaped using any pulses other than ON_OFF keying (say a Raised Cosine Pulse), will the envelope of the Signal will still remain a constant.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good question. I've added it to my "to do" list. In short though, PSK does not need to have the same amplitude for the entire symbol period (ie. it can have pulse shaping applied, to reduce the bandwidth). The important thing is that all the symbols have the same magnitude at the output of the matched filter in the receiver - so that it is immune to nonlinearities in the receiver amplifier (ie. all symbols are affected to the same degree). There is a modulation scheme that has a constant modulus for the entire symbol period (CPM) but it requires a much more complex receiver.

  • @falguni.bonaparte
    @falguni.bonaparte 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks Sir!

  • @lutzvonwangenheim9682
    @lutzvonwangenheim9682 ปีที่แล้ว

    hey lain @ 13:50 you have made a statement that we don't have to bother about amplitude in case of 16 psk why is it so .
    can you spread some light on this ? and why you have made the statement that 64 QAM is better in case of AWGN CHANNEL and why not in case of RAYLEIGH FADING whwere as in both cases amplitude is being affected

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  ปีที่แล้ว

      All the symbols in PSK have the same amplitude, so all you need to do to detect them at the receiver, is to track the phase. You don't need an accurate estimate of the channel gain. For QAM, you need to estimate the channel gain accurately, since not all symbols have the same amplitude. And I think you're confusing the AWGN channel - it does not affect the gain - as the name indicates, it only adds noise.

    • @lutzvonwangenheim9682
      @lutzvonwangenheim9682 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@iain_explains but its not like that even to make a correct estimate of the phase we need an correct estimate of I and Q component at the receiver which also requires a estimated correct gain of the channel to do so as phase is arctan(I/q)

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, but that doesn't mean you need accurate estimates of I and Q. As long as I and Q are both "inaccurate in the same way" - which is what happens in non-linear amplifiers. In other words, you only need the _ratio_ of I and Q to be accurate.

  • @MagicGirlsOnly
    @MagicGirlsOnly 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another banger!

  • @DrDeuteron
    @DrDeuteron 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How does the algo know I am simulating q am and psk at work? My work computer and phone has no connection to me irl, for…reasons

  • @SADEEM-ART
    @SADEEM-ART 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    4:14
    This constellation diagram for QAM or QPSK?

  • @milfinu
    @milfinu 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I don't get it, Do you have a special ed version ?

  • @streetvendour1287
    @streetvendour1287 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Do anyone know how to calculate SER or is it the same as BER

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This video should help: "How are Bit Error Rate (BER) and Symbol Error Rate (SER) Related?" th-cam.com/video/du-sExIUV-Y/w-d-xo.html and you might like to check out other videos on the channel, that are listed in categorised order here: iaincollings.com

  • @mandarmoksha
    @mandarmoksha 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish you were my professor in my bachelor's and master's. Do nt mean to demean the great work but I feel there will b good response to donation/contribution if you setup one...

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it some thought.

  • @gopalsolanki1519
    @gopalsolanki1519 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shouldn’t SNR be A^2/(No/2). Noise variance I thought was No/2.

    • @iain_explains
      @iain_explains  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hopefully this video might help: "What is Noise Power in Communication Systems?" th-cam.com/video/_qn4RzMrXBc/w-d-xo.html

  • @edwinr4378
    @edwinr4378 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank u sir