Do UK trains have high and low beams? In Italy the trains have 3 white lights and 2 red lights, the lower ones have 3 levels: marker lights, low beam and high beam, the third light is only high beam (the last trains have the third LED light always on but at reduced intensity, as required by UIC regulations, the light can always be increased by pressing a button). With the arrival of the LED headlights, the dipped headlights are eliminated, there are only marker lights and high beams, the marker lights are so bright that the low beam is no longer needed, many trains have LED marker lights and high beams with halogen lamps but in the recent years even high beams are LED, light is very strong and white.
I remember the original PEP units when they operated out of Waterloo. Our flat looked out on to the railway at Tolworth, on the Chessington branch. The doors weren't operated by push buttons, they had long vertical aluminium handles on the edge of the doors, you had to pull the doors apart slightly then they would sense the movement and open pneumatically. It wasn't a good system, useless for some disabled people, elderly, or for passengers with lots of baggage or shopping etc. I also saw the 508s in service on the same route. They ran as four car sets and looked really smart in in their new gleaming blue-grey livery. A big change from the old 4 SUBs and 2 or 4 EPBs that they replaced. Hopefully I'll be moving this year, and my local trains will be class 507s and 8s, soon to be replaced by 777s.
I will really miss these train when they’re gone. 313s especially since they were closest to me. I always saw them in NSE, the white livery, FCC and Silverlink. One thing that bothers me though. Looking at an old railway magazine showing the prototypes which were very different to the production models (Scharfenberg couplers, 3 doors per side, Mk3, carriage style bogies) what I’m confused about is that the trains didn’t seem to have any lights. Where are they? Another thing is: why would the trains be rebuilt with two headlights and three marker lights if only one headlight and two marker lights were used just like in the original light cluster
I had to include the 507s / 508s as they are very much part of the PEP story. Happily I had some footage I could use which I filmed some years ago. Whats missing was the Class 316 trains, but thats because they were never built (similar trains but for Manchester and the aborted subterranean Picc-Vic link.
In addition to the Southern Class 313's, at present (October 2020) Merseyside still has its Classes 507/508 PEP trains, plus a few Class 315's are still in service on TfL Rail.
If only there were a way to keep these adorable little units going! It's funny how the people guarding the nation's coffers always throw out the excuse "we need to save money" when talking about rail projects (funnily enough, not road projects though...) but when buying rolling stock, they seem adamant to buy new, expensive stock instead of getting low-cost hand-me-downs. I'm a proponent of re-instating what was a suburban railway in the east suburbs of Liverpool (North Liverpool Extension Line) into an overhead line electrified commuter line, using old PEP stock (converting 507/8s into OLE-compatible, and also using other PEPs that already have dual-voltage functionality) to run on this line (which is now a bike path but retains legal protection for rail use) and potentially run on 3rd rail sections of line if need be. It's a shame we don't have a functioning democracy, because I know many people who'd rather have easy, efficient, cheap and clean travel around the city than some dirty, run-down bike path that's been heavily neglected and is notorious for crime.
I have heard about disused railways in Liverpool that some people would like to see reopened. I think it should become a reality. But I am unsure if these trains would be used / could be used. I can understand how some passengers would like it, and for the trains to combine battery and third rail power.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Given the restrictions surrounding the building of new 3rd rail track, Merseytravel are left with two feasible options: begin the transition from 3rd rail to OLE, or use a bodged battery system. Given batteries are much worse for the environment than OLE, and restrict the range and scope of what distance they can cover (both literal distance covered by the trains, and network access throughout a given geographical area), OLE is the obvious choice. This aforementioned line being reinstated with stock featuring the dual-voltage functionality most PEP stock are known for (the 507/8 classes would need pantographs added) could be a fantastic first step in this transition, as well as a great benefit for both the environment and local congestion! Even if this doesn't get done, it's a shame to send them to the scrapyard instead of being passed down to lines that may otherwise not be able to have a service to begin with, e.g. rural lines, or being used in experimental programmes like the Class 799...
The new Class 777 trains due to enter service on Merseyrail can be upgraded to use overhead wires. Several units will also be BEMUs, as the Northern Line terminus is being extended from Kirkby to the new Headbolt Lane station, and this stretch of track will not be electrified. In theory, the hope is for 777 trains to run from Ormskirk to Preston and back on unelectrified track. The 507 and 508s are old, heavy and power hungry compared to the new trains, which are lighter and have more powerful motors. I'm sure one or two units will be preserved, but these particular units have reached the operational limit. They've had a good run though.
@@mccpcorn2000 Do you have material regarding the 777 OLE upgrade (articles, press releases, etc)? That sounds interesting. As I mentioned earlier, reliance on battery power is short-sighted and terrible for the environment. This tactic only exist to save PTEs money in the short term, instead of investing in infrastructure for the long term; consequences on the planet be damned. Did you not read what I wrote? I'm not saying we should throw the 777s in the sea because I 'prefer the 507/8s' or something. I'm saying that it's a waste they're being scrapped instead of being used on lines that need it, being upgraded to go on other lines (OLE, diesel, hydrogen, etc) that wouldn't otherwise get the funding for new rolling stock, being used to expand the network, etc. Less efficient? Sure. Better than nothing? Definitely.
@@caramelldansen2204 I never said you said anything of the sort. I just described why it's unlikely the 507s or 508s could be retained. Third rail lines seem to be out of favour right now, so if disused lines on Merseyside or elsewhere were to be brought back into use, these particular trains wouldn't be considered. From videos I've seen, 313s and other variants use overhead wires, but it likely isn't considered cost effective to upgrade the 507/8s at this point in their lives. They could maybe used for spares to keep other variants running though. Re the 777s, the Wiki article describes them being future proofed for using overhead wires, as Merseyrail anticipates they won't be able to expand the third rail network. I've been aboard the trains during open days and spoken with Merseyrail reps who have pretty much said the same thing. Having seen the trains up close, you can see areas on the carriage roofs that show where the equipment would go should they be upgraded.
There's always something new to learn. Whilst I'm familiar with this class of train, the term "PEP" is new to me. I found this video after accidentally finding a promotional video about the class Prototype trains which were called "PEPs" and then, after a lot of searching, found the term "Prototype Electric Pneumatic" which I think is the correct meaning of "PEP". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this term relates to the prototypes. It would be great if there was some footage of those.
Hello, alas but I never saw or rode on the prototypes when they were carrying passengers. I did see them a few times in Wimbledon depot but this was after they had been withdrawn.
Not me. I have some footage of them and indeed earlier this year (2020 - before the virus lockdown) I went out of my way to get some footage riding them on London Overground services. I also have some GA footage, as well as Network SouthEast photos at Barbican.
Haven't the 315s life been extended for a little while due to the Crossrail delays, the fact the 345s have to go elsewhere to get the additional two carriages fitted to make them 9 cars and because platforms 16 & 17 at Liverpool Street need extending before hand? There's still a few of them about as of May 2020 Edited: Second paragraph answered in the video so removed :)
sorry but I have lost track, because of the 2020 virus pandemic lockdown I've not been on the trains for 3 months, I think the 315's are still used on the West Anglia routes and they have some in TfL Rail livery too - on the Great eastern service they mostly use the 345's and only use a few 315's which are changed daily to keep them fully serviceable until the situation improves
Personally speaking, all they needed was a third, high-intensity, light adding in the dome which would have been a lot cheaper and quicker and created the same effect. Less ugly too.
The Class 313 and Class 314 that have gone for scrap haven’t they. With Southern keeping the Class 313 “Coastway” for bit longer and Merseyrail to replace the Class 507 and Class 508 with the new Class 777 Stadler trains that are coming into service later this year (2022). And of course TfL Rail and London Overground have replaced the Class 315 with the Class 345 and Class 710 Aventras.
The Class 316 was never built (intended for Manchester but they go T68's instead). I wonder what Tyneside would have got had its third rail trains survived long enough to be replaced by PEP type trains? Perhaps more 507's / 508's as per Merseyside?
the Class 316 number was for the trains that would have been used in Manchester on the Picc-Vic underground link. But the London politicians pulled the financial plug and as a result this link was never built and no Class 316 trains were built either. Class 317 trains were overhead wire suburban derivatives of the Mk3 InterCity passenger carriages. The third rail versions were class 455 and the experimental diesel versions were the Class 210. But only two of the 210's were built as these too were deemed 'too expensive'.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Ohh makes sense, can a vid be made about trains with tightlock couplers f.e a class 317 couple to a 321 ik these trains aren't in service anymore but any old footage
I think its a European thing, but I'm not really sure why they need this - far better is to have high intensity lights so that the train can be seen from a distance away
I Love How Some 315 Units Have Electrostar Headlights
The 315 sounds great
Yes.
Do UK trains have high and low beams? In Italy the trains have 3 white lights and 2 red lights, the lower ones have 3 levels: marker lights, low beam and high beam, the third light is only high beam (the last trains have the third LED light always on but at reduced intensity, as required by UIC regulations, the light can always be increased by pressing a button). With the arrival of the LED headlights, the dipped headlights are eliminated, there are only marker lights and high beams, the marker lights are so bright that the low beam is no longer needed, many trains have LED marker lights and high beams with halogen lamps but in the recent years even high beams are LED, light is very strong and white.
The good thing is Southern still have their PEP's in service, i'm not sure wether or not they will intend to replace them though.
I remember the original PEP units when they operated out of Waterloo. Our flat looked out on to the railway at Tolworth, on the Chessington branch. The doors weren't operated by push buttons, they had long vertical aluminium handles on the edge of the doors, you had to pull the doors apart slightly then they would sense the movement and open pneumatically. It wasn't a good system, useless for some disabled people, elderly, or for passengers with lots of baggage or shopping etc.
I also saw the 508s in service on the same route. They ran as four car sets and looked really smart in in their new gleaming blue-grey livery. A big change from the old 4 SUBs and 2 or 4 EPBs that they replaced.
Hopefully I'll be moving this year, and my local trains will be class 507s and 8s, soon to be replaced by 777s.
I will really miss these train when they’re gone. 313s especially since they were closest to me. I always saw them in NSE, the white livery, FCC and Silverlink. One thing that bothers me though. Looking at an old railway magazine showing the prototypes which were very different to the production models (Scharfenberg couplers, 3 doors per side, Mk3, carriage style bogies) what I’m confused about is that the trains didn’t seem to have any lights. Where are they?
Another thing is: why would the trains be rebuilt with two headlights and three marker lights if only one headlight and two marker lights were used just like in the original light cluster
Nice one mate. I am glad that you actually included the 507/508 trains because I'm really close to them
I had to include the 507s / 508s as they are very much part of the PEP story. Happily I had some footage I could use which I filmed some years ago. Whats missing was the Class 316 trains, but thats because they were never built (similar trains but for Manchester and the aborted subterranean Picc-Vic link.
I remember when the 508's were first introduced on the Southern Region. They were SO different from the slam door stock!
I think the MerseyRail 507 an 508 look the best
As a Scouser, I have to agree!
It's a shame Merseyrail bungles, among many things, their liveries.
oh wow i love these trains some of them are on the southern coastway in West and East Sussex
It is sad that they are going. For example: The only class 313s remaining is on the Southern Coastway Lines. I am really going to miss them.
In addition to the Southern Class 313's, at present (October 2020) Merseyside still has its Classes 507/508 PEP trains, plus a few Class 315's are still in service on TfL Rail.
In-case anyone was wondering, I vanquished my ignorance by finding; PEP = Prototype Electro-Pneumatic.
I think the class 315 sounds slightly different to the rest of the PEP, because when accelerating, they have a very low whining motor
I think they use a different type of electric motors
If only there were a way to keep these adorable little units going! It's funny how the people guarding the nation's coffers always throw out the excuse "we need to save money" when talking about rail projects (funnily enough, not road projects though...) but when buying rolling stock, they seem adamant to buy new, expensive stock instead of getting low-cost hand-me-downs.
I'm a proponent of re-instating what was a suburban railway in the east suburbs of Liverpool (North Liverpool Extension Line) into an overhead line electrified commuter line, using old PEP stock (converting 507/8s into OLE-compatible, and also using other PEPs that already have dual-voltage functionality) to run on this line (which is now a bike path but retains legal protection for rail use) and potentially run on 3rd rail sections of line if need be. It's a shame we don't have a functioning democracy, because I know many people who'd rather have easy, efficient, cheap and clean travel around the city than some dirty, run-down bike path that's been heavily neglected and is notorious for crime.
I have heard about disused railways in Liverpool that some people would like to see reopened. I think it should become a reality.
But I am unsure if these trains would be used / could be used. I can understand how some passengers would like it, and for the trains to combine battery and third rail power.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Given the restrictions surrounding the building of new 3rd rail track, Merseytravel are left with two feasible options: begin the transition from 3rd rail to OLE, or use a bodged battery system. Given batteries are much worse for the environment than OLE, and restrict the range and scope of what distance they can cover (both literal distance covered by the trains, and network access throughout a given geographical area), OLE is the obvious choice. This aforementioned line being reinstated with stock featuring the dual-voltage functionality most PEP stock are known for (the 507/8 classes would need pantographs added) could be a fantastic first step in this transition, as well as a great benefit for both the environment and local congestion!
Even if this doesn't get done, it's a shame to send them to the scrapyard instead of being passed down to lines that may otherwise not be able to have a service to begin with, e.g. rural lines, or being used in experimental programmes like the Class 799...
The new Class 777 trains due to enter service on Merseyrail can be upgraded to use overhead wires. Several units will also be BEMUs, as the Northern Line terminus is being extended from Kirkby to the new Headbolt Lane station, and this stretch of track will not be electrified. In theory, the hope is for 777 trains to run from Ormskirk to Preston and back on unelectrified track.
The 507 and 508s are old, heavy and power hungry compared to the new trains, which are lighter and have more powerful motors. I'm sure one or two units will be preserved, but these particular units have reached the operational limit. They've had a good run though.
@@mccpcorn2000 Do you have material regarding the 777 OLE upgrade (articles, press releases, etc)? That sounds interesting. As I mentioned earlier, reliance on battery power is short-sighted and terrible for the environment. This tactic only exist to save PTEs money in the short term, instead of investing in infrastructure for the long term; consequences on the planet be damned.
Did you not read what I wrote? I'm not saying we should throw the 777s in the sea because I 'prefer the 507/8s' or something. I'm saying that it's a waste they're being scrapped instead of being used on lines that need it, being upgraded to go on other lines (OLE, diesel, hydrogen, etc) that wouldn't otherwise get the funding for new rolling stock, being used to expand the network, etc. Less efficient? Sure. Better than nothing? Definitely.
@@caramelldansen2204 I never said you said anything of the sort. I just described why it's unlikely the 507s or 508s could be retained. Third rail lines seem to be out of favour right now, so if disused lines on Merseyside or elsewhere were to be brought back into use, these particular trains wouldn't be considered. From videos I've seen, 313s and other variants use overhead wires, but it likely isn't considered cost effective to upgrade the 507/8s at this point in their lives. They could maybe used for spares to keep other variants running though.
Re the 777s, the Wiki article describes them being future proofed for using overhead wires, as Merseyrail anticipates they won't be able to expand the third rail network. I've been aboard the trains during open days and spoken with Merseyrail reps who have pretty much said the same thing. Having seen the trains up close, you can see areas on the carriage roofs that show where the equipment would go should they be upgraded.
It’s the end of the line for some trains this year
315s have already started going for scrap.
and the 314s
@@silenthunteruk NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! 😢💔
i never knew there was a first great eastern
oforid222 Official Same
yh ikr lol
First great eastern is the opposite of First great Western. Which they can work in partnership.
There's always something new to learn. Whilst I'm familiar with this class of train, the term "PEP" is new to me. I found this video after accidentally finding a promotional video about the class Prototype trains which were called "PEPs" and then, after a lot of searching, found the term "Prototype Electric Pneumatic" which I think is the correct meaning of "PEP". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this term relates to the prototypes. It would be great if there was some footage of those.
Hello, alas but I never saw or rode on the prototypes when they were carrying passengers. I did see them a few times in Wimbledon depot but this was after they had been withdrawn.
Was that DMU Class 140 was similar of PEP (front driving) but belong to PACER?
Everyone forgets about the class 317, which I as a Greater Anglian (is that a word?) on the Lee Valley Line find rather disappointing
Not me. I have some footage of them and indeed earlier this year (2020 - before the virus lockdown) I went out of my way to get some footage riding them on London Overground services. I also have some GA footage, as well as Network SouthEast photos at Barbican.
I always thought these lamps displayed the headcode..
Another quirk, I didn't notice!!
I prefer the class 315s out of the PEP series. Because it had the most powerful motor.
Haven't the 315s life been extended for a little while due to the Crossrail delays, the fact the 345s have to go elsewhere to get the additional two carriages fitted to make them 9 cars and because platforms 16 & 17 at Liverpool Street need extending before hand? There's still a few of them about as of May 2020
Edited: Second paragraph answered in the video so removed :)
sorry but I have lost track, because of the 2020 virus pandemic lockdown I've not been on the trains for 3 months, I think the 315's are still used on the West Anglia routes and they have some in TfL Rail livery too - on the Great eastern service they mostly use the 345's and only use a few 315's which are changed daily to keep them fully serviceable until the situation improves
315 trains er still here just here
Personally speaking, all they needed was a third, high-intensity, light adding in the dome which would have been a lot cheaper and quicker and created the same effect. Less ugly too.
Why didn't you show the 317? The 317/7 units use the same time of headlights at the 507/508 trains.
They’re newer MK3 EMUs not older PEP stock
Could showing of Class 317 along with DEMU 210 (also 457/316) and EMUs 318 & 455.
I like the Music
The Class 313 and Class 314 that have gone for scrap haven’t they. With Southern keeping the Class 313 “Coastway” for bit longer and Merseyrail to replace the Class 507 and Class 508 with the new Class 777 Stadler trains that are coming into service later this year (2022). And of course TfL Rail and London Overground have replaced the Class 315 with the Class 345 and Class 710 Aventras.
The Class 316 was never built (intended for Manchester but they go T68's instead). I wonder what Tyneside would have got had its third rail trains survived long enough to be replaced by PEP type trains? Perhaps more 507's / 508's as per Merseyside?
Do 316s and 317s count those are mt favorite
the Class 316 number was for the trains that would have been used in Manchester on the Picc-Vic underground link. But the London politicians pulled the financial plug and as a result this link was never built and no Class 316 trains were built either.
Class 317 trains were overhead wire suburban derivatives of the Mk3 InterCity passenger carriages. The third rail versions were class 455 and the experimental diesel versions were the Class 210. But only two of the 210's were built as these too were deemed 'too expensive'.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Ohh makes sense, can a vid be made about trains with tightlock couplers f.e a class 317 couple to a 321 ik these trains aren't in service anymore but any old footage
The people at Stratford stood waaayy to close to the platform edge
During rush hour you can sometimes be unable to stand further back due to the island platforms
Are the new lights LED?
By the looks of it, the marker lights and tail lights are, but the headlights (the large lights) are not
Where?
Why _do_ they need 3 front lights, anyway?
I think its a European thing, but I'm not really sure why they need this - far better is to have high intensity lights so that the train can be seen from a distance away
Sadly the PEP Family will be retired progressively
soon, but not yet - and one might survive for a while on the Romford - Upminster shuttle.
There is no indication that Southern are going to get rid of their fleet.
Can name me list of Rail-Bus operators in the UK?
Norman Hughedicko As in Pacer units? Currently Transport for Wales, Northern and GWR operate Pacers
Andrew Gwilt I said Northern...