The New ZWO AM5N vs Old ZWO AM5 - Side By Side
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Hope you enjoy this one!! Thanks to ZWO for the opportunity to check this one out! :-)
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#astrophotography #space #stars #nebula #pixinsight #seestar #zwo #asiair - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Check out my good friend Cuiv's first vid of this mount too!! :-D
th-cam.com/video/wZvACsERnGI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eyt61wMDKF6UqN_T
People use the altitude scale when setting up, digital polar alignment is only for fine adjustment. It's a portable mount if you travel anywhere you will set that scale to what your GPS says so you have a rough alignment.
Luke this is such a great overview and comparison mate! And you spotted so much more than I did haha!
Thanks so much mate!! :-D your vid was great!!
@@lukomaticoTH-camrs helping youtubers is so wholesome, come from Cuiv’s video. Both amazing
@@mayurramudit Cuiv is awesome!! :-D thanks so much for coming to take a look mate 👍👍
@@lukomatico My pleasure, great video!
Both you guys do good reviews and keep us all informed. hats of to you both
I truly appreciate your fair, true, balanced, and in-depth reviews, Luke, this one included!
Thanks ever so much my friend!! Clear skies! :-)
Between you and Cuiv, I now know more than I need to about the AM5N. More than I need to because I have the AM5 and agree with you that the changes are not worth selling the old and buying the new. Congrats on the baby!
Excellent to hear that Jack!! It's a lovely mount but so is the original AM5! :-D
Thank you by the way! :-) Clear skies my friend!
Luke, you sure have a fine eye for detail. My AM5 has been amazing and at this point I doubt my wife could possibly understand why I’d be attracted to the new upgrade. Fortunately, after watching your video explaining that the differences are relatively negligibly minor, I’m going to relax a bit and continue to enjoy my “old” AM5 (while keeping harmony in my marriage 😂. PLEASE, please do consider making a video on how to adjust the AM4 to be used for visual astronomy, I haven’t found any videos that encourage me to take that leap. As always, brilliant insightful analysis.
Hey Joe!!
I think you're spot on mate, no major need to change out your perfectly good AM5!
Re: visual setup, that's a good idea, I'll have to do that! :-)
Clear skies mate!
looks like they dropped the bubble levels on the new AM5N. That was pretty convenient on the original AM5.
Some very nice upgrades on the new one, but agreed, I find the bubble levels on my AM5 very useful and don't like that they deleted them.
Good to see this review. If you test it i would be interested in understanding how OAG works with the mount. The previous version required autoguider refresh rates of 0.5 to 1s which is bad news for those of us with OAG which prefer 2s or more. Since they have upgraded the mount capacity this brings the mount very much into 8”SCT+ class which often use OAG. Would be helpful to learn how this works out.
Great in depth review Luke. I have the original AM5 and because of a back surgery gone bad, it’s the only mount I can pick up. The new improvements seem to be good ones and it’s good that they have listen to users suggestions to make a good product even better. Now if they would only allow other cameras and such on the ASIAIR plus it would be a real winning situation for us all. Thanks again for the great channel.
Best regards
Luis from NY
Agreed Luis! I wish asiair was open to other cams, that would be so nice! :-) Thanks for your support and clear skies my friend!
Oh man ZWO is going after all of the other mount companies business for this weight class! This is now the perfect mount! Thanks for video Luke!
Great! Ordered the N version yesterday. Curious about trying my C11 on it. I didn't with the original AM5. Where do you suggest attaching the ASIAIR? Although not recommended it worked great on the SIDE of the AM5.
Awesome! Congratulations :-)
I'd attach it to the OTA/dovetail if possible, then use the through-head wiring 👍
@@lukomatico THANK YOU. I will do that.
Common AP, Paramount, 10 micron! It is time to produce this type of mount. Many people are waiting such mount from you.
Great review Luke
Love my original AM5 but have to say I’m jealous of these improvements 😂
Cheers Simon
I really need a new mount and its definitely looking like the new am5 is the way to go. Would love to have a nice small mount instead of my current cgem dx taking up a chunk of the living room. Plus lighter weight and not taking up so much room in the car on the occasional astro outing. Now just gotta figure out what to do with my current setup. Thanks for the review.
10:45, that is the main upgrade I'm jealous of. I love my AM5, but its most annoying trait is that adjustment piece hanging low and knocking the tripod locking mechanism.
Also I don’t see the bubble levels, but i never use them, and it never affected my accuracy
Hi! I'm looking for a harmonic drive based mount, and in our shops in EU there are only the AM5 in stock, is it worth to wait for AM5N or there is no difference in the performance?
I feel it would be worth waiting for the am5n to restock, - it's a better mount really, and would command a higher resale value in the future! :-) Clear skies!
Hey mate - Nice overview pal. I wouldn't mine one of these if I did a bit more travel with my gear, but Im toooo lazy 😂 the Heq5Pro is pretty solid for now.
Gotta love the heq5 bud!!!
Great review Luko! hope the price is not so high as the old one…
My AM5 started to slip when my payload was nearly 13 kg. A substantial portion of the weight was above my Askar 120 APO in the form of a guider, Eagle, and associated hardware. I ended up using a counterweight and all is well. From my experience, the payload torque is more important than the payload weight. I wonder at what distance above the mount they are basing their payload weight limits.
Very interesting to hear that mate!! - I totally agree by the way, 13kg close to the center of rotation is a very different load to 13kg a foot further out! 👍
Clear skies bud
This looks tempting, for replacing my EQ6R that is. I must however say that I'm kind of disappointed to see that the through the mount USB is 2.0...
The through mount usb is only for mount communication anyway, so no worries IMO! :-) just have your pc mounted on the OTA and everything is snag-proof and connected!
Great mount mate, and I'm honestly considering doing the same with my own EQ6 👍
What exactly is the USB C for on the saddle. Can you use a USB B to USB c to connect the mount to the ASI Air Plus.? Sorry just trying to run things through my head for cable mgmt. by the way order a couple of your cable clips 😊
Thank you for your support mate!! The usb is for exactly what you just described, hardwired mount connection to either a pc or asiair :-)
Clear skies!!
Is it safe to power the AM5N running an ASIAIR, camera and focuser (from the mount head) with a 12V 10 amp power brick? Will the mount and mount head only draw as much current as needed?
That's correct mate, just make sure the tip polarity is correct though on your power supply 👍 5.5x2.1 tip positive I believe, but do double check!
Thank you for the full review
But be careful not to install the screws without the base on the side of the old mount, as they will damage the engine.
See instruction booklet.
Thank you!! Noted 👍
My AVX stopped connecting via USB back near the end of winter, so I bought an AM5. While I love it, it pisses me off that it's been updated shortly after I bit the bullet and bought one. I'd LOVE to have the features on this new version! I absolutely HATE polar alignment with the old one, because it seems to take a long time to get the feel of anticipating how much or little to adjust to account for what it will actually be when locked down. Hopefully, these new adjusters help with that, especially in azimuth. I also feel like the azimuth knobs on my version are a tad small. The power & USB connections on the saddle are a very nice addition. Maybe you mentioned & I missed it, but do you know if the price is going up???
Hey mate!! Sorry to hear that, I can understand! the new release came as a total surprise to me too, only found out very recently haha!
Re: the alt & az adjustments, on my own AM5 I usually leave the baseplate and side clamps quite tight to be honest, totally avoids the shift associated with locking after adjustment 👍
Clear skies mate!
Great review Luke looks like some very nice updates , do you think this would be able to handle a Quattro 250 if it was mounted on a permanent mount?
Hey mate! I'd say yes it would handle the quattro 250 when used with a counterweight, - as you'll know a big scope like that catches a lot of wind though! So calm conditions would be best 👍
All the best mate!
Love the saddle pass-thru ports, but not worth upgrading from the original.
Agree mate, it's really nice for new buyers though! :-) Cheers!
Agreed, a much much more sensible location for those ports !
Excellent coverage of these two, Luke!! Hope you're well! :)
Thanks Sarah!! - doing great thanks, hope you're well too! :-D
@@lukomatico awesome to hear! Everything is good over here, too! Major congrats on your baby!!!!
Thank you so much, that's really kind of you to say!! Great to hear you're well! :-D clear skies!
I've been asking questions about the 3 amp spec for the AM5N on the ZWO Facebook page and received this comment "ZWO Astrophotography AuthorAdmin
The DC port on the saddle can support a maximum current of 5A when used as an output port." Based upon my current demand measurements, this means I CAN power everything, including the ASIAIR, dew heaters, and my ASI2600MC Pro from that DC output, leaving no wires hanging down from the saddle.
Where does the increased payload capacity come from?. Where is the mechanical improvement ?
Totally unsure mate!! Perhaps a different motor controller? Just a guess though
Hi thanks for the great review. I have always wondered if there was a preferred method of placing the telescope in a saddle. I usually slide the dovetail from the front but I have seen people place the dovetail on one edge and then rotate it into the saddle. Is one better than the other?
Good question mate! - I usually tip my dovetail into the saddle so that I can physically feel and hear when it's settled flat, no chance of clamping just the edge of the dovetail then in error 👍👍
Your method works great too though!
It's literally impossible to keep up with the evolution of AP tech these days. My fear for enthusiasts is that they chase the newest versions and end up suffering due to financial pressures. That would be so counterproductive to what we are trying to achieve in our niche hobby. Also, unless you are living in Arizona etc, you probably have about 20% decent nights in which you can actually observe/image. Add work and family commitments etc to the pot and we need to be realistic on how often these hyper expensive items will actually be used!
My advice to folks who have a the older AM5 or an EQ6 etc would be to go firm on the expenditure and get the absolute max out of the setup you currently have. It's about enjoyment, not about being a slave to the market.
Great advice mate, use what you have unless what you have is ruining the hobby for you! :-) Clear skies!
My feelings exactly, my EQ6-R currently works very well so I have no intention of replacing it. I am saving up for an additional mount simply because having looked at all options, to get the most out of the limited time I have available ( no more than fifty nights a year ), I think simultaneous imaging of two or three targets is the way to go.
In my experience, the Achilles Heel of the AM5 is the altitude adjustment in Polar Alignment. They don’t seem to have fixed this.
Seems to work great in my experience, I do find keeping quite a bit of tension on the sides helps smooth out adjustments when sufficiently loaded with OTA etc 👍
An F on the new carry case. Trading in that nice older one for a 6-pack cooler is not good. And not sure how you now lock down azimuth with going underneath with a wrench, the old lock handles seemed to work OK. Would have to try it all for myself at night for a true measure :).
Thanks Luke!
Great review Luke. I'd be annoyed at the mark on the casing caused by the Allen key too! I won't be buying one at the moment as I'm quite satisfied with my AZ-EQ GT. Clear skies!
Great intial review Luke. I will probably be buying an SWG mount sometime between now and New Year and an AM 5 is one of the units I am considering. First, do you know if there is any difference in the price point between the two models?
Second, do you happen to know when the new mount will be released here in the UK?
I do like the look of this mount, but to be honest I quite like the look of the Sky Watcher SWG mount that comes with dual saddles ( think it's the 100 ) as well but I have no idea when that will be available either.
If it turns out that they are both out of my price range, then I'll probably go for an AM 3 or the original AM 5 if there's any left.
Clear skies.
Hey mate! I think this one will take over from the old AM5, pricing appears to be the same and as to release they should have came out today :-)
I like the look of a lot of these swg mounts, but I always worry about being an early adopter and potentially getting stung - at least the AM5 is well proven at this point :-)
Clear skies buddy!!
@@lukomatico Thanks Luke.
Nice comparison mate but sadly way out of my league to buy either the old or the new version, I will say though it does look smart on the Altair tri pier I do hope they make some more of those sometime.
Thanks so much mate! - I have to say I love that tri-pier! pretty cool bit of kit :-)
Hi, great video, very informative. Just had a question and apologies if I've missed this when scanning through the comments but I noticed that the AM5N doesn't seem to have a spirit level whereas the AM5 had 2. I'm a novice in this and am looking to upgrade my ioptron skyguider pro to the AM5n but just wondered how I would level it on the tripod? I imagine there is some sort of leveling as I am seeing a lot of great reviews for this mount. Anyway, I hope you can help and thanks in advance!
Hey mate!
There's no in-built level, but if you're using equatorial mode it doesn't need to be level anyway - it only matters for alt-az mode, even then though just being close is good enough 👍
Hope that helps!
@@lukomatico Ah perfect,! This will be my first GoTo so wasn't aware of this. Thanks so much for getting back to me!
Interesting video. I’m considering replacing my old HEQ5 pro with an AM5, just for ease of shifting it in an out of the garage and the lower periodic error. I was wondering what tripod you use for your AM5?
I have an Altair Tri pier and the tc40, both are good but the Tri pier is more stable :-)
@@lukomatico thanks.
A refresh on something that worked already (I do like the new saddle), the old case is perfect for airline travel so I don't like the foam style case and they just should have made a larger model instead so I didn't have to get a RST-300. But I do like that they got the periodic level down from + -20 down to 10. Other than that it's not worth an upgrade but great for the newer customers. Also you forgot the new usb C port is only for power not throughput if I remember what they told me.
Hey Kasei! Hope you're doing well my friend 👍👍 (I still will get that polymer review done by the way!! 😅)
As you say, I think it's nice changes for new customers but if you already have an AM5, don't sweat it!
Re: the usb, it does allow communication to the mount - tested last night 👍 Cheers!!
@@lukomatico Yes doing good! Playing with my new Supermount that arrived from Korea today. Oh it's so worth it. I have 1 clear night tonight and then 9 straight days of thunderstorms. Congrats by the way. I was happy to hear the great news! Gonna have to send you pampers soon lol. So I will be sitting and waiting for a live stream since I will be bored as hell🙂 I am pretty sure you have your hands full so don't worry about the polymer yet. I have something for myself on the way to play with soon ;-)
Nice video Luke! I’ve been using an EQ6R Pro for a few years and am in the market for an AM5 for travel. The updated model seems to have some nice upgrades, especially the periodic error decrease!
Hey Mark! I'm giving serious thought to replacing the eq6 in my obsy with an AM5, I rate them very highly indeed!
Clear skies bud!
Hi Luke,
Well, you got my mouth watering for a new mount now. That new AM5N is VERY enticing. Hard to believe it can handle the Celestron Edge HD 11". I sure would like to give it a try though.
Clear Skies
Thanks so much for your support Pat, as always! :-) It really feels pretty crazy to see the Edge11 on the AM5, when I first tested it out I thought 'nah, there's no way this will work' - and then it did work, lol! :-D amazing gear!
Great review! Looks like some worthwhile improvements. I just got the older model so I'll wait on upgrading...
I replaced my AM3 saddle with the Pegasus 10 amp one. It powers everything. The mount, the ASIAIR, the camera etc. 3amps is insufficient. Is this new saddle on the AM5 removeable so I can replace it with the Pegasus? If not, I will use the Pegasus Power box to power everything. I'll just Velcro it to the front of the mount!
Hey mate! I think the 3 amp figure is very conservative - I've powered an Asiair, two dew heaters and an asi 2600 to -20c from ambient and there was no hint of issue during operation 👍
@@lukomatico Have you powered the mount at the same time from the ASI port?
The mount was powered by the input at the front for my usage 👍
This model is supposed to be twice as accurate as the old one… we’ll see.
Hey there!
That's a tough one - It has half the total periodic error according to the spec, but that may not translate into twice as accurate tracking - it'll just be easier to guide as the peak to peak PE will require smaller total guide pulses over its total period 👍
Cheers!
Is the old model going to get a price reduction?
Good question mate! - I think the old model will probably just be phased out and replaced with this, but that's just a guess!
Hi Luke, I would be honored if you would take a look to my cheap DIY harmonic equatorial mount!
It shows they are listening to reviews of pros an cons and thriving to make things even better, nice info Luke and look forward to see what you think of this red devil... But we want an AM7/AM8
👀
Thanks so much mate!! I'd love to see a big strain wave on offer for sure, that'd be majorly tempting! 👍👍
Will the am3 have a similar revision?
I'm really not sure mate, but I would guess so eventually?
Excellent overview Luke, looks like ZWO have made quite a few improvements. I'm still in the market for a mount for a portable rig so these improvements make the AM5 even more tempting.
Thanks Pete mate!! - I really feel the AM5 is a good mount, I haven't tried out the other harmonics on the market but they'd have to be bloody good to keep up! :-)
Clear skies my friend!
ZWO really listens to their customers and I can see nice improvements here. Curious is the new case allows the mount to be placed back inside without having to adjust the altitude (latitude). The soft case is great that way. Unlike my HEQ5 styrofoam boxes, the old AM5 case allows replacing the mount without adjustment. I do note the new color is more red and a bit less orange.
Hey there my friend!! I'm very impressed so far, I must say! :-)
Re: the case, you do indeed have some wiggle room for the altitude being left adjusted when put away 👍
Cheers!
I'm hoping one you will test this mount with at least a 8" SCT at at focal length of 1280mm and greater using an OAG for guiding. With the improvement in PE I'm hoping the guidance from ZWO changes about suggested focal lengths. I didn't want to take a chance on buying a strain wave mount if it wasn't suitable to guide my C8 SCT. In your opinion should this new version open up higher focal lengths?
What kind of guiding with your C11 do you get with the AM5, Luke?
It was really surprising mate but I was guiding at around 0.6 according to asiair - it needs a calm night though, a big tube like that catches quite a lot of wind (even on my EQ8)
Clear skies my friend :-)
Luke is that a UBS C port on the saddle? Where does it go? Does it come out on the front plate on the main body of the mount (i.e. true hrought mount cable), or does it go strait to the mount controller so that a scope mounted computer can control the mount using USB C? Through mount cable is indeed a very nice feature especially for someone that likes a tidy installation. That is why I have always liked the iOptron mounts.
Hey mate! It's a direct mount connection point, so you can use a usb c-to-a and have no hanging wires! :-)
What is USBC port for?
Mount communication 👍
Would have made a bigger deal of the fact that the worst case PE spec is now 1/2 of what the old spec was. That seems like a really nice upgrade that would seem to be indicative of some significant mechanical and/or electronic improvements that have been made. If I am not mistaken this now has the best PE spec of any of these type of mounts that do not include absolute encoders?
It seems to be very much improved indeed, I think the later (now older) AM5 models had good PE too, but maybe not quite this good! I remember the first batch of AM5's had pretty high pe figures by contrast but still worked great with fast guide corrections (likely still needed as with all swg mounts)
Hey luke, thx for this overview ! It seems that there is no longer a bubble level... ZWO has placed these bubbles elsewhere on the new AM5?
No mate they're gone fully I think!
This is my next big purchase.
Great video Luke. And my compliments on your 3D printing skills. That's a clean print sir. Better than I can do for sure!
Thanks so much mate!! - I put the prints down to the machine more than me, haha! I'm now printing PETG cleaner than I used to print PLA on my old machine! Clear skies bud :-)
Seems more like the AM3 now for the adjustments. I actually connect my AM3 to my minipc via BT, and has worked quite well, while also elimimating a cable. So nice addition to include BT.
Good to know mate!! I've not actually tried the Bluetooth yet outside of just a brief 'ok it works' kinda thing haha!
One caveat to it. You have to connect to the mount via the phone app first (I use BT for that as well)then close the app, then the ASI software will sync to the mount correctly on the PC when you then connect via Bluetooth. This has been reported, but not obviously fixed.
Thanks!
Thank you so much Joe!! 👍👍
Hi Luke great video as always i like the new through cable addition so much better
Totally agree Sean!! Love the new cable management 👍👍
excellent comparison review Luke....thank you
No problem Mike my friend!! :-)
Thanks again Luke! Good on ZWO for improving the drive accuracy. I fear that the other main change deflects from the real issue (too low power output) and will just hoodwink more newcomers into having unreasonable expectations. Attaching an AsiAir a main camera and dewstraps through this output will seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It will inevitably lead to poblems and disappointment (whereas thrilling the customer should be the goal).
I'm not looking for a dark cloud, but I upgraded my old AM5 with a Pegasus power saddle. Doing this with the new model will likely leave you without a usable case. Cutting the foam to allow room for puck (5mm higher up saddle) and the bigger knobs looks less likely to work with the new case. Also the 3A output is fine for the lighter equipment on the OTA, but powering a main camera (eg a 2600 MC) through this would require the full 3A supply leaving nothing for dewstraps and asiair with its other accessories. To my mind the rerouting change is NOT a power or cable management solution, its is just a nod to acknowledge a weakness that has been 'improved'... OR HAS IT??
There is a mismatch between the AM5 user manual and the scribing on the output port. I'm assuming that there's always been only 3A available (and the 5A as claimed in the user manual is a saleslman's typo). 3A is not enough to allow worse case (robust) power distribution into the rig design. So if you want FULLY effective cable management power and dew control, swapping to a Pegasus powersaddle will do that, but this route now has extra downsides compared with the older AM5 model. Now it leaves you (potentially) without a usable case, and the new AM5 cables will need to be cut or disconnected and stowed where they wont jam the RA movement, or short out.😪
Thanks for the feedback mate!
I can confirm the power outlet is enough when used with two dew straps (main scope and finder) and a 2600mc pro cooling to -20 from ambient, all powered by asiair outlets - haven't tested further, but I suspect the port is plenty powerful enough for most needs 👍
I tried the old AM5 side outlet too with my edge HD 11, 11" dew strap, 2600mc pro again cooled to -20 from ambient again all powered from the asiair and it worked great.
Not trying to disprove anything you're saying by the way! Just offering my own experiences first-hand so far 👍
Clear skies mate
Where did you see that zwo improved the drive accuracy? They simply shorten the period on the RA axis by half which gave by magic a lower "reportable" period error. It unfortunately doubled the slope of the curve, meaning shifts in direction of the drive are harder to guide out. There are lengthy discussion of this marketing ploy in the zwo forum. The shift happened 5 months after they release the 1st version of the mount.
@@hael8680 Whatever they've been doing works mate! - both my late model AM5's and the AM5N guide wonderfully 🙂
I think if ZWO wanted to mask figures or hide anything they'd just stop sending out PE graphs with the mounts entirely.
Excellent overview and it is still the best review couch on TH-cam.
Thanks so much mate, haha!! :-D
Great comparison, Luke! I've been eager for a sneak peak all day!
Thanks Dan!! - Hope you enjoyed :-D
Can you or should you move altitude bar when the sides are locked?
Good question! - If the sides are excessively tight then you shouldn't move it, but it'll be a bit of a self-solving situation as the alt adjustment would feel very tight to move in such a case, preventing much movement anyway 👍
In practice I find it works well when just reasonably tight, I've not experienced issues yet on three am5's anyhow, but I know others have
Nice.
Love that azimuth adjustment!
Pretty neat isn't it! 👍👍
$4200 AUD with tripod yeah nah there is no competition at all seriously disappointed with ZWO
Sorry to hear it mate, are there more affordable options in Australia? :- (
Clear skies bud!
@@lukomatico nope this is the way it is in Oz even if we directly import them while cheaper to buy, the GST and customs kill it
Looks a bit dinky.
It's unreal how capable it is, such a great design 👍
How do you level without the leveling bubbles?
Good question mate! - It would have been cool to see, but the old leveling bubbles were honestly terrible anyway so it's no big loss, but importantly we must remember that leveling is not actually important for EQ usage, it only matters when using it in ALT-AZ mode :-)
I didn’t realize that leveling wasn’t required for EQ. What about if you’re unguided?
@@AstroJWA as long as you're polar aligned it's still fine 👍