A large part of the reason for it is that without modern weather forecasts nobody knew if they were clearing the snow during the middle of a storm or the end of it, and if you set off and start clearing a line during the middle of the storm without a plow facing behind you, you might not be able to get home because of the amount of snow had fallen on the track behind you… Then the plow would require a rescue consisting of another plow coming from the depot, (which could then easily mean you end up with two plows, both facing the wrong way as even more snow falls, and you needing another rescue!) So, assuming your snow removal plans don’t include “wait until it melts in the spring”, (and for some lines it does,) it really is best if the snowplows can come home on their own even if it keeps snowing. There was a brief time when good weather forecasts started being a thing that the rotary plows in the US didn’t follow this rule: they had the rotary on the front but just a regular plow in the back figuring that not that much snow would fall and it would be okay... Several got stuck during a particular bad storm, and the rule is now if the snow is bad enough to justify using a rotary at all, you need one on the back too.
@@gimmespamnow Huh, interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm an American, so I don't have as much knowledge on European railway operations, but reading your comment has given me a greater insight to how back-to-back snowplow trains worked
I remember reading the old Thomas books and seeing the classic image of Donald and Douglas coupled together with snow plows like was described in this video. Definitely brings back childhood memories.
When I was a young kid, I vividly remember my father having a train VHS of railroads operating in the snow. The thing I remember the most were these F units charging the snowdrifts (nearly up to the top of the locos) only to get stuck, back up, then go again time after time. They didn't have any snowplows and they just had a small work train. To this day I have not been able to find this anywhere on the internet and it has become a piece of "lost media" to my childhood.
@@TomLuTon these ones were former UP locos that they sold off to a local short line railroad. After the pair of F7s couldn't get the job done, UP came out with it's rotary plow to finish the job. The description says it was filmed during the winter of 88 basically on the boarder between Colorado and Wyoming.
Update: my father ripped the VHS to DVD a few years back and we were able to watch it together the other weekend. Really hope some clips make their way online because it was quite the watch.
I live in the US State Minnesota which is one of the most snowiest states in the Union and some of the snowdrifts get so high they're taller than the locomotives and themselves. My brother who works for the I ion Pacific Railroad actually got stuck in one of these drifts ironically being sent to go save another train that had gotten stuck. The National Guard was sent out to rescue both crews. It just goes to show how important snow lows and rotary p!owe are to the railroads.
Didn't realize the snow GOT that deep, even with some distance from the Great Lakes; also hope Union Pacific & the other big railroads look into restoring more steam engines in future, considering there are still plenty that deserve to be in preservation or in service for lighter work if they're in good enough shape.
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Yeah it happens obviously part of it is that it gets pushed to the side as time goes on and just keeps accumulating snow, its fun looking at old pictures of trains running along side the snow drifts that are so high you could use the engines and cars as a bridge to and from both banks. So crazy.
TOT - "Two engines would be coupled back to back with a coach in the middle." Me - I wonder where I have seen that before. (Bagpipes playing in the background).
In snowy conditions the fuel in diesel’s fuel tanks would usually freeze, crews would get around this by lighting a fire under the tanks to thaw out the fuel, this was surprisingly effective
Diesel doesn't freeze, it gels. It would also be relatively easy to pipe a heating tube through the fuel tank to circulate engine coolant through to warm the fuel. "Snowy conditions" is relatively vague, because just because it's snowing, it doesn't mean it's cold enough to gel the diesel.
Another little good 'un - GWR also experimented with mounting two RR Nene jet engines on a flatbed (one for each rail, natch) which did work well but had the alarming side-effect of spitting all the ballast out in random directions, possibly causing a bigger problem than the original! Very enjoyable, great channel.
The funny thing is using a jet turbine IS still a snow cleaner in the US, although its primarily relegated to yard services. Get a jet turbine over a frozen switch and watch as the snow blows away and the ice melts. Where I live locomotive mounted plows are sufficient for the mainline, and the plows are just permanently mounted to the locomotive.
Making a video about snow and using music from Col Cold Mountain/ Snowman's land from Super Mario 64 is a really good way to get into the Christmas Spirit! Loved it!
You've probably seen them already, But there are good videos of people keeping the switches (points) around Chicago clear of obstructions in the winter. They use flamethrowers. Occasionally there are minor fires, which makes for an interesting commute.
Way back in the day on the Denver South Park and Pacific Railroad, a train was out on the line during a massive blizzard, the crews couldn’t see 20 feet in front of the plow, soon enough though the storm cleared and it was a clear night with the moonlight illuminating the wilderness. In the shadow of the moonlight a massive solid looking object was dead on the rails. The engineer threw the brakes, put the locomotive in reverse and laid down in the whistle, once they got to a stop the engineer and firemen got out of the cab too see that the obstruction was a large bale of hay. Assuming that this was the work of a farmer that came through with a herd of sheep hours before. He joked that maybe they were the ones trespassing on his land. And that was the truth. After 45 minutes of searching they found the mainline a half mine away. The WHOLE CONSIST was a half mile off the rails in a farmers field. The engineer said that looking back on it he noticed that the train ran a lot smoother once it left the rails.
The Central Pacific built a number of sheds to cover the tracks in their worst areas. The sheds were the reason the Southern Pacific, which bought the line, developed the cab-forward mallets.
Your choice of music was PERFECT! Mario 64 time! That said, I didn't know about the rotary snow plows until just now. Interesting! Hard to maintain or not, it does make sense if you're constantly dealing with deep snow.
I've seen the occasional plow train running in the winter in New England. Usually the Loco-mounted plows are enough but when there are big drifts the railroads will use Russell snowplows. Russell snowplow cars are ancient (1920s-1950s vintage) but they get the job done. Jordan spreaders are also used- they have the advantage of being multipurpose machines, since snow plowing is secondary to their primary function of spreading freshly-laid ballast.
This couldn't have come at more appropriate time. I'm experiencing a snow storm where I live right now! 2:57 Of course. The Swiss. Why am I not surprised?
Fun fact about the second to last picture: Rhätische Bahn uses a diesel-electric locomotive (the Gem4/4) with the rotary snow plow because on the Bernina line there's sometimes enough snowfall to short-circuit the electric lines
I remember watching a small documentary on steam trains from Colorado as a kid, and one of the segments was how they cleared snow from the tracks using a rotary snow plow like the one at 2:29. Ah, good times.
In Britain many snowploughs, like the NER example you show at 1:30, were built around old tender chassis. I've actually been in that one (it's at Locomotion in Shildon, County Durham) and I imagine it wouldn't do for any crew it was accomodating to be claustrophiobic.
Coupled back to back with a van between their tenders the twins set to work. Got to love how the rev w awdry based his Donald and Douglas snow story on real life events!
1:43 Holy crap, I actually recognized this unit. I had to do double-take and hunt down some old pictures to verify. This plow is on display at an old roundhouse in Big Valley, Alberta.
I've read about a train being divided into three separate sets of wagons when it ran through a snowdrift (the locomotives continued for some distance before discovering this). They then went forward, switched lines, came back, & attempted to push the broken wagons forward to reunite the train. The idea of propelling goods wagons through snowdrifts with only the three man team of driver, fireman & guard was sheer folly, & the wagons became derailed. This led to single line working being enforced over that section. This was a contributory factor in a larger disaster that followed.
I work at a fertilizer plant, we ship alot of our product in via rail and I tell you what nothing makes life worse than a bit of snow or ice the night before cars arive.
I think it was the winter of 1947 Britain used an aircraft jet engine attached to a wagon to clear the snow. The blast from the engine was aimed at an angle towards the track where the snow was blown away. I have a feeling this was not used again, partly because 1947 was a particularly bad winter, but mostly it was ineffective and it was not the best use of the engine.
Not bad a little bare bones but informative. I'd recommend the old rail way documentary SNOW ON THE RUN by the southern pacific on the donner summit in the Sierra Nevada mountains.
1:51 this looks like its from my hometown there's one of those there and the background looks like the area (Big Valley, AB Canada) Edit: just looked up train plow this picture came up and the wiki page its from said it was Big Valley
As a literal snow removal technician, i endorse this video.
Pinned and no replies
Finally. An explanation why Donald and Douglas were seen operating back to back with a breakdown coach in-between during the snow seasons
Losh sakes
I know. I always thought that was something the Rev W. Awdry made up. I was shocked to hear that engines actually did that in real life
A large part of the reason for it is that without modern weather forecasts nobody knew if they were clearing the snow during the middle of a storm or the end of it, and if you set off and start clearing a line during the middle of the storm without a plow facing behind you, you might not be able to get home because of the amount of snow had fallen on the track behind you… Then the plow would require a rescue consisting of another plow coming from the depot, (which could then easily mean you end up with two plows, both facing the wrong way as even more snow falls, and you needing another rescue!)
So, assuming your snow removal plans don’t include “wait until it melts in the spring”, (and for some lines it does,) it really is best if the snowplows can come home on their own even if it keeps snowing.
There was a brief time when good weather forecasts started being a thing that the rotary plows in the US didn’t follow this rule: they had the rotary on the front but just a regular plow in the back figuring that not that much snow would fall and it would be okay... Several got stuck during a particular bad storm, and the rule is now if the snow is bad enough to justify using a rotary at all, you need one on the back too.
@@gimmespamnow Huh, interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm an American, so I don't have as much knowledge on European railway operations, but reading your comment has given me a greater insight to how back-to-back snowplow trains worked
Hey, yeah!
I remember reading the old Thomas books and seeing the classic image of Donald and Douglas coupled together with snow plows like was described in this video. Definitely brings back childhood memories.
When I was a young kid, I vividly remember my father having a train VHS of railroads operating in the snow. The thing I remember the most were these F units charging the snowdrifts (nearly up to the top of the locos) only to get stuck, back up, then go again time after time. They didn't have any snowplows and they just had a small work train. To this day I have not been able to find this anywhere on the internet and it has become a piece of "lost media" to my childhood.
I think I just found it. "Assault on Snow" by WB productions. Can't find any clips online though...
@@joelpaltzer8732 Canadian National had F7s modified for snow clearing duties
@@TomLuTon these ones were former UP locos that they sold off to a local short line railroad. After the pair of F7s couldn't get the job done, UP came out with it's rotary plow to finish the job. The description says it was filmed during the winter of 88 basically on the boarder between Colorado and Wyoming.
Update: my father ripped the VHS to DVD a few years back and we were able to watch it together the other weekend. Really hope some clips make their way online because it was quite the watch.
can you mayhaps provide the video by downloading the dvd to pc
This channel is the find of the century for me
Damn I drew the line with the rotary ploughs
I remember when I was little I would watch videos of engines plowing the snow usually diesel engines it was so fun to watch
I live in the US State Minnesota which is one of the most snowiest states in the Union and some of the snowdrifts get so high they're taller than the locomotives and themselves. My brother who works for the I ion Pacific Railroad actually got stuck in one of these drifts ironically being sent to go save another train that had gotten stuck. The National Guard was sent out to rescue both crews. It just goes to show how important snow lows and rotary p!owe are to the railroads.
Didn't realize the snow GOT that deep, even with some distance from the Great Lakes; also hope Union Pacific & the other big railroads look into restoring more steam engines in future, considering there are still plenty that deserve to be in preservation or in service for lighter work if they're in good enough shape.
dang thats deep ive seen 7 or 8 foot drift here in the cascade mountains but that insane
@@IndustrialParrot2816 Yeah it happens obviously part of it is that it gets pushed to the side as time goes on and just keeps accumulating snow, its fun looking at old pictures of trains running along side the snow drifts that are so high you could use the engines and cars as a bridge to and from both banks. So crazy.
And that's why Canada invented the rotary plow^^
TOT - "Two engines would be coupled back to back with a coach in the middle."
Me - I wonder where I have seen that before. (Bagpipes playing in the background).
DnD TTTE?
@@ianjackson4721 yes
Thomas fans: "I think we all know where this is going."
Most engines hate snow. Donald and Douglas were used to it. They knew what to do.
Lol
In snowy conditions the fuel in diesel’s fuel tanks would usually freeze, crews would get around this by lighting a fire under the tanks to thaw out the fuel, this was surprisingly effective
Effective, but also very dangerous!
Diesel doesn't freeze, it gels. It would also be relatively easy to pipe a heating tube through the fuel tank to circulate engine coolant through to warm the fuel. "Snowy conditions" is relatively vague, because just because it's snowing, it doesn't mean it's cold enough to gel the diesel.
History sure is interesting, but it’s better when you have the right person to talk about it. I love watching these videos every Friday.
2:56 Holy moly...a flamethrower-looking machine to defrost switches/points.
Slip coaches, The water scoop, now this. This just gets better & better!
Another little good 'un - GWR also experimented with mounting two RR Nene jet engines on a flatbed (one for each rail, natch) which did work well but had the alarming side-effect of spitting all the ballast out in random directions, possibly causing a bigger problem than the original!
Very enjoyable, great channel.
The funny thing is using a jet turbine IS still a snow cleaner in the US, although its primarily relegated to yard services. Get a jet turbine over a frozen switch and watch as the snow blows away and the ice melts.
Where I live locomotive mounted plows are sufficient for the mainline, and the plows are just permanently mounted to the locomotive.
Jet engines were used in Germany too, to get rid of the ice on swiches. One of these can be seen at the Meuselwitz narrow gauge railway.
Making a video about snow and using music from Col Cold Mountain/ Snowman's land from Super Mario 64 is a really good way to get into the Christmas Spirit! Loved it!
You've probably seen them already, But there are good videos of people keeping the switches (points) around Chicago clear of obstructions in the winter. They use flamethrowers. Occasionally there are minor fires, which makes for an interesting commute.
Meet the pyro
"Silly soft stuff!"
-Thomas, 1949
Way back in the day on the Denver South Park and Pacific Railroad, a train was out on the line during a massive blizzard, the crews couldn’t see 20 feet in front of the plow, soon enough though the storm cleared and it was a clear night with the moonlight illuminating the wilderness. In the shadow of the moonlight a massive solid looking object was dead on the rails. The engineer threw the brakes, put the locomotive in reverse and laid down in the whistle, once they got to a stop the engineer and firemen got out of the cab too see that the obstruction was a large bale of hay. Assuming that this was the work of a farmer that came through with a herd of sheep hours before. He joked that maybe they were the ones trespassing on his land. And that was the truth. After 45 minutes of searching they found the mainline a half mine away. The WHOLE CONSIST was a half mile off the rails in a farmers field. The engineer said that looking back on it he noticed that the train ran a lot smoother once it left the rails.
Holy Hell
That must've been one hell of a story to tell the rescue crew if any were needed
Bruh moment right there
Brits: Big Snow Plow
Canadians: big turbine
Swiss: HANS! HAST DU DAS FLAMMENWERFER?!
"Every line has its own method of removing snow"
*Swiss using literal flamethrowers*
Pyromaniacs: *Tearful Onlooking*
The Central Pacific built a number of sheds to cover the tracks in their worst areas. The sheds were the reason the Southern Pacific, which bought the line, developed the cab-forward mallets.
Your choice of music was PERFECT! Mario 64 time! That said, I didn't know about the rotary snow plows until just now. Interesting! Hard to maintain or not, it does make sense if you're constantly dealing with deep snow.
I thought I was the only one who heard that. 🤣
Good to know there was a reason behind Donald and Douglas running back to back in the snow.
I've seen the occasional plow train running in the winter in New England. Usually the Loco-mounted plows are enough but when there are big drifts the railroads will use Russell snowplows. Russell snowplow cars are ancient (1920s-1950s vintage) but they get the job done. Jordan spreaders are also used- they have the advantage of being multipurpose machines, since snow plowing is secondary to their primary function of spreading freshly-laid ballast.
This couldn't have come at more appropriate time. I'm experiencing a snow storm where I live right now! 2:57 Of course. The Swiss. Why am I not surprised?
It was the mighty Southern Pacific that kept Donner Pass open. Of all the roads that fought snow the Espee should be at the top of the list!
I don't which I liked more, seeing the basis for Donald and Douglas' snow plough train, or the Swiss flamethrower train.
I love the use of the Cold, Cold Mountain music
The ultimate film of a train stuck in a snowdrift is Snowdrift at Bleath Gill. Well worth watching!
Fun fact about the second to last picture: Rhätische Bahn uses a diesel-electric locomotive (the Gem4/4) with the rotary snow plow because on the Bernina line there's sometimes enough snowfall to short-circuit the electric lines
I remember watching a small documentary on steam trains from Colorado as a kid, and one of the segments was how they cleared snow from the tracks using a rotary snow plow like the one at 2:29. Ah, good times.
i work with a rotary snowplow built by Hessen in 1898. Fantastic machines!
Your are right. There is nothing that a few men and some hp cannot fix
Very cleaver use of the Mario 64 cool cool mountain music.
In Britain many snowploughs, like the NER example you show at 1:30, were built around old tender chassis. I've actually been in that one (it's at Locomotion in Shildon, County Durham) and I imagine it wouldn't do for any crew it was accomodating to be claustrophiobic.
I love your content, these small videos are really nice for listening to during commute. Keep it up!
This mad lad fr played Cool Cool Mountain in the background. Instant like.
I think that first picture was from my hometown of Truckee CA to get over Donner Pass.
1:18 just like Donald and Douglas.
Fun fact: in chicago, the winters are so cold they have to light the tracks on fire.
The “snow charging” process was (and still is) called: “Bucking Snow”
That’s appropriate. I’ve been shovelling the bucking snow for two days now.
I’m an avgeek but also a huge rail fan, I absolutely love your channel. Keep it up 👍
Jet engines were used in Germany too, to get rid of the ice on swiches. One of these can be seen at the Meuselwitz narrow gauge railway.
10/10 for the use of the snow level music from Mario N64.
Ya-ho!
Most railroads: Just use a snow plow
The Swiss: Get the flamenwerfer
Coupled back to back with a van between their tenders the twins set to work.
Got to love how the rev w awdry based his Donald and Douglas snow story on real life events!
Friday is always a great day of the week thanks to your videos getting released then!
Well, nice video as always. In Czechoslovakia we used something similar like in Switzerland. But with a Soviet Jet plane MIG-15 or 17.
Sometimes all you need is patience and hothot Gas.
Love the mario music in the background, great work ToT!
Now it makes sense why donald and douglas are coupled up in thomas the tankengine like this
2:01 if this thing was a road vehicle, then it would be the best weapon ever for the zombie apocalypse.
This has got to be the only youtube channel I've subscribed, where I've watched all videos since the beginning. Keep up the good work. :) 👍👍
“Silly soft stuff…” -famous last words moments before disaster.
I love that thumbnail so many locomotives
1:17
Donald and Douglas' practice is real
"Sir, the switches are frozen!"
"Fritz... _Get ze flamethrower..."_
1:18 Donald & Douglas from Thomas & friends
That ending was the first time I'd ever heard of a flame throwing engine.
I love that flamethrower one!
I really like to watch the Rotary Snow plows go.
This is my official request for a video on that flamethrower wagon!
In the Netherlands they have heaters for every set of points, so the points don't freeze up
Loved the Super Mario soundtrack too :)
I said it one I’ll say it again
Screw being at school on time.
This is way more important
“Some more extreme than others” meanwhile in Switzerland: F I R E
1:43 Holy crap, I actually recognized this unit. I had to do double-take and hunt down some old pictures to verify.
This plow is on display at an old roundhouse in Big Valley, Alberta.
3:00
Oh god trains have flame throwers now!
nothing better then a good old iced up switch
Love the Mario 64 background music
great video
Love that the snow plow literally looks like the bow of the ship
Because Snow is just a cold water maybe?
Love Your Channel
Stream engines and Snow don't seem to mix well but with a snowplough yes 😊
In Czechoslovakia, they were using jet engines to clear snow in most problematic parts of lines but they stop using it
2:56
Now that’s a bit overkill to put it lightly...
Not to the Swiss apparently.
@@trainlover16 Those wankers south of us don’t even know how to speak proper German so I’m not surprised ;D
@@scanida5070 *angry german-ish gibberish* XD
Snow Ploughs are of the greatest inventions for transportation
Great video, as always 😊
Looooove the music ❤😊
I wonder if there's ever been an accident involving snow that knocked a engine off the rails
I've read about a train being divided into three separate sets of wagons when it ran through a snowdrift (the locomotives continued for some distance before discovering this). They then went forward, switched lines, came back, & attempted to push the broken wagons forward to reunite the train. The idea of propelling goods wagons through snowdrifts with only the three man team of driver, fireman & guard was sheer folly, & the wagons became derailed. This led to single line working being enforced over that section. This was a contributory factor in a larger disaster that followed.
The Swiss Rotary Snow Plow shown at 02:46 once was rolled over by an Avalanche
British railways: We force the snow away!
American railways: We blow the snow away!
Swiss railways: WE BURN THE SNOW AWAY.
“Ey Donnie, That oughta be a lairge pile o’ Snaw.” Translates to » “Hey Donald, that oughta be a large pile of snow.”
when i was a kid CP would store a few plows at the local yard (like 1:47)
always thought they were neat
Have seen the rotary snowplow at the Northwest Railway Museum
I work at a fertilizer plant, we ship alot of our product in via rail and I tell you what nothing makes life worse than a bit of snow or ice the night before cars arive.
imagine if seeing 5 union pacific big boy and challengers coupled together charging at snow
The ultra monster plowing machine
I think it was the winter of 1947 Britain used an aircraft jet engine attached to a wagon to clear the snow. The blast from the engine was aimed at an angle towards the track where the snow was blown away. I have a feeling this was not used again, partly because 1947 was a particularly bad winter, but mostly it was ineffective and it was not the best use of the engine.
Snow: *exists*
A certain blue tank engine and two caledonian twins: you dare oppose me,mortal?
I saw one of those steam/diesel plows in Minnesota
1:16 - 1:30
This photo immediately reminds me of what Donald and Douglas do when running in the snow and clearing it
"Donald and Douglas were used to it. Coupled back to back, with a van between their tenders and a snowplow on their fronts, they set to work."
Not bad a little bare bones but informative. I'd recommend the old rail way documentary SNOW ON THE RUN by the southern pacific on the donner summit in the Sierra Nevada mountains.
Just don't let Thomas see this.
0:11 thats grefsen stasion
i live just by, i would never think i radomly see somthing so close to where i live
Men and horsepower the solution to every problem
The colder it gets, the painier it gets
ho boy, something i can relate with at last
norway isnt that nice during winter haha
wonder if there is any stories to tell about norwegian railways
The Pennsylvania Railroad had a salvaged GG1 cut in half to defrost switches in one yard
Looking to the Future.
1:21
Eh donnie?
Eh dougie?
Deres e strenge men neer ous....
great info
Are we just gonna ignore the Swiss using F-ING FLAMETHROWERS to defrost switches? Needs a full video
14 locomotives! How did the first one with the plow not get crushed like a can when they hit a massive snowdrift?
1:51 this looks like its from my hometown there's one of those there and the background looks like the area (Big Valley, AB Canada)
Edit: just looked up train plow this picture came up and the wiki page its from said it was Big Valley