Electric cars are a CON, why you should not buy a new one
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2023
- This has been on my mind for a while. Don't get me wrong here, I think EV's are great but I dont think they are worth the money right now.
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Well this woke some people up!!!😂 thanks for the comments guys, its a good talking point for sure.
BACKGROUND... I still love EVs but I still haven't switched to full EV for my main car for a lot of the reasons, some of which I mentioned in the video.
The way I see it is that Tesla are still the best EVs on the market but they aren't the best cars all round at all plus they are absolutely everywhere now, I'm oldskool I like to feel something when I drive a car, a sense of individualism about my car choice. I don't want to be filmed from every angle and be monitored remotely and have my cars features enabled or disabled by the manufacturer without my permission - because you can guarantee that's going to start happening along with putting features behind subscription based pay walls.
I've driven a lot of EVs now and they drove well if a bit heavy, I still love the combo of my Twizy for quick jaunts around town and my modded TT which regularly chews up Teslas and spits them out!😅
I chuck some fuel in and do 300 miles.. if im not racing teslas. I do very few miles in that car so have probably only filled it up a few times this year but if I want to go away for the weekend and do 600 miles it's ready to do a long journey with absolutely no drama at all and there's always a petrol station around the corner when I need.
The twizy and my ebikes run off a few solar panels as they require very little energy to move, unlike big 2 tonne eSUVs!!
There's no good solution to climate change and all the other bad stuff that we have been brainwashed to believe that is caused by our ICE vehicles, but its definately not buying ANOTHER expensive vehicle to replace one that doesn't need replacing.
We need to wake up and realise we just need to use less energy, buy less stuff, create less waste and look after our planet in other ways. China do not give a #### about pollution and we buy everything from there!!!
I agree about reducing our carbon footprint by consuming less and recycling/reusing as much as we can. However, I think your comment about China is a little unfair. Yes, China still uses a lot of coal for power generation, but they also generate more power from wind and solar than any other country in the world. Considerably more!
Countries that buy their products, including the UK, are just as responsible for China's pollution as they are in many respects. The UK imported £63 billion's worth of Chinese good last year, and China's total exports were $3.6 trillion, so in a sense, we reduce our CO2 emissions by importing theirs.
There are numerous things we can accuse China of, but pollution from the highest populated country in the world isn't one of them. In reality, their CO2 per capita is half of that of countries like Australia, Canada, and the US, and even less than that of the oil producing gulf states. And, of course, the west has been polluting for far longer.
It woke people up because negativity sells better than positivity. That is intentional on your part because the title of your video is designed to attract a certain audience.
Far too many misconceptions here, and the guy is clearly a petrol head! Trouble is a lot of people will believe this nonsense. Have a go at the government which is responsible for the shortcomings. Norway got it right.
Keep the gas guzzler Andy and keep polluting please😀 these Evs are one big con. Wait till the second hand markets falls on its arse. Evs are a right of when the batteries are dead. Fact
I’ll stick with my diesel Renault…..but I do love the Twizy..🥰😘🚗
The greenest thing you can ever do is to keep your existing car for the longest time possible. This of course, does not align with the goals of the car manufacturers who want to sell us new technology every 5-10 years.
More like every 3 years.
You're right. They deliberately introduce 'achiles heals' so that they can take a perfectly good car off the road because of trivial things, or make 'proprietary' electronics that will be impossible to repair. Manufacturers need to be responsible for their products for 20 years, that's the realistic lifetime of a vehicle, at least it was: I have two as proof of that.
It's about control, coming from the WEF. " YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY" by 2030. Push back.
Only green if you leave it in the garage not used. Whilst it's true that older cars have a smaller carbon footprint because of their age, they are still highly polluting when used, so they are not green at all. Of course, if you only drive them high days and holidays, then they're not so bad
@@FullFact548 I'm thinking about the vast resources needed for new cars, including the polluting nergy needed to manufacture them and to transport the materials from all over the world.
My Toyota Aygo cost me £2,500 & it does everything an EV will do & more. Cheap to insure, £20 tax, cheap to run, cheap to maintain. It also does the trip from the Midlands to Cornwall & back without refuelling, which if I had to, would only take me a few minutes.
The old army saying comes to mind. "Bullshit baffles brains"🙃
The humble Toyota Aygo is great 👍🏼 like you say, proper cheap reliable motoring.
Easy to maintain yourself, cheap parts and bulletproof engine.
@@onlyme972 disgusting car🤮
@@ragger1225who asked you?
@@ragger1225 Tesla fanboy🤣
ban the gov not the scooters
Completely agree Andy. I bought a E hyper scooter a while back thinking I was ahead of the game and legislation would embrace these awesome bits of kit as part of the electric revolution…. How wrong I was, and if I dare use it I risk it being confiscated and being fined and having six penalty points on my license. It’s absolutely mad, but what else would one expect in this crazy ridiculous world we live in?
Electric scooters are borderline reckless. Their engine power is too great for their comparatively tiny frame size; and the weight distribution is far too top heavy. It's much safer for you and other road users if you'd chosen an e-bike or a motorcycle, why didn't you choose one of the actually safe options?
@@longdang2681bet u don't like motorcycles either. In my opinion your comment is stupid.
They can't allow cheap transport to get in the way of their need for collecting money from the population!
They are " managing" the economy for the 1% and thus we have to continue to be ripped off so they can balance the books for the banks and corporations, whilst lining their own pockets with what they can get away with!
Get it out of your head that ANY politician in Whitehall might give a shit about you. They don't!!
They want your money, they want your property and they're coming for your pension!! For gods sake wake up!!!
I’d have a Tesla tomorrow if it wasn’t for the cost. A friend did a massive multi country trip in his and only cost him a couple of hundred in electricity to do about 3000 miles. The prices are just mental .
I looked into it myself, bloody £2000 a year car insurance!!!
@@Larry you’re probably too young or have too many claims on your insurance
How long did it take? Three years 😂😂😂😂 This is just one of the issues for me, time wasted sat waiting to hook up to get charged, just not viable at the moment - plus where is all the power coming from?
@@smiffymiffed2734 he was on holiday, so didn’t spend any time at all waiting charging. He would see the sights in the town he chose whilst the car charged.
I wouldn’t, I’ve seen them stripped apart and the quality that’s gone into the build. They are not meant for the duration, they are meant for the initials or ownership.
All makes sense Andy you are spot on mate, what that charger should say is"Sorry it is temporarily out of order, sorry for any inconvenience but you will now have to walk home" Have a nice day.
🤣🤣🤣 absolutely!
Issue is, even if you buy a Twizzy-like vehicle, you'd still need a normal car for bigger groceries, 2-3 person transport, holidays or pulling a trailer.
Which means you're gonna need a regulular car regardless, which makes these small EVs just redundant.
It's why I bought on of your ebike kits: gets me around town in half the time with an ordinary bike, can use normal bikelanes(city centres in the Netherland often pedestrian & bike centric), don't take up space in the drive way(like a Twizy or EV, can cycle back from the pub sauced up(which you can't in a car or Twizy), can cycle when battery is dead.
I have a ICE estate which I use to pull the caravan, go to the hardware store, groceries etc etc. but I barely drive it, maybe once a week?
This sounds like the perfect scenario! Especially the pub bit 😅👍🏼
Good points BUT I certainly wouldn't be on the road with any vehicle sauced up ( I'm assuming you meant it tongue in cheek). In fact I'm sure you can get points or a ban if even on a bicycle, maybe I'm wrong. The other thing with a Twizy like vehicle is you need a driveway, garage or off road parking or some pleb will take it. So that rules it out for a lot of terraced house owners.
I have a factory installed tow hitch on my slow moving jinma j2, and have a small flat 4x8 lightweight trailer to haul sheets of materials whenever needed to. You could also consider a roof rack option or mod one to fit.
Mine has a decent amount of room behind the singular front seat, i saw 7 people crawl out of one after it went up a steep hill during a demo of its ability to haul additional weight.
Who says having BOTH is a bad idea? I think it’s actually a perfect solution if you are a two car household. Keep your old car for long journeys and for carrying more people or stuff. Have a micro EV for commuting and shorter local trips. I think it’s crazy that we’re trying to completely replace our existing cars, especially as battery technology has a long way to go in terms of safety, lifetime, charge rate, capacity and weight.
Can you charge the twizzy from your solar panels?
no reason why not....
If only the government would let us all have a Jetson One to get to work that would help the "green agenda" rather than expecting us to give up the car and use an ebike or jump on an electric bus that's charged by a diesel generator I think by now we should be all in flying cars its 2023 for crying out loud.
Exactly, hybrid is still the way to go. I just bought a second hand Toyota Corolla. Best car I’ve ever had. I’ve driven an electric. Loved it but there’s no way I’d pay the ridiculous amounts they want for, as you say, a lesser vehicle in terms of usability.
Hybrid, is when your friend eventually jumps out and starts pushing the vehicle and you only have to steer it because its your car.
I agree they are still more expensive due to battery costs but they are getting better - like the MG4 from £27k with around 200 miles range. Also most people don't need to even charge away from home as they can charge up cheap over night. Then you need to consider the reduced running costs as maintenance is less (even Vauxhall say this) - no it doesn't work for everyone, even me living in a flat and usually working in retail so not earning much BUT I'm not the norm as Tesla are showing with the Model Y the best selling car in the WORLD! - and that's all cars, even ICE! - when I finally change my 17 year old Focus I will get a used EV like a BMWi3 from £10k now, a Renault Zoe ZE50 with 200 miles range from £15k and for others needing more then the Kia eNiro with 280 mile range starts at £18k - and if you hadn't paid all the battery lease money you paid on the (shit for most people car) the Renault Twizzy, you would have a decent deposit for one of these...😂😂
How are batteries getting better... they are lith-ion tech.... until we come up with a new solution, they will remain lith-ion tech
That second hand EV your going to buy will have a fast charged battery IE, damaged with a shortened life span....but go ahead, prove me wrong....🤔😳🙄🇬🇧
@@crashnreset6987 There are already other chemistries currently available with more on the way. They have different characteristics so the best solution depends upon the application. Also. li-on batteries do consistently improve every year.
@@jbbuzzable Just because it is "available", it doesn't mean it is retailed, these are batteries with promising tech that is still firmly in the labs. Li-on batteries haven't really improved much in the last decade. It's primarily why phones haven't gotten smaller - which have the BEST battery tech available. It's not as if the scientists weren't trying either - every company knew for a long while, if you crack the next gen batteries, you are guaranteed to have a company worth 100 billion.
@@khalidacosta7133 LiOn batteries drop in cost every year so they have dropped 88% in the last decade, and energy density has increased by a similar amount. I consider that an improvement. Tesla, has switched to lithium iron packs in their standard range models, among others. CATL, the world's largest battery manufacturer has announced that their sodium battery will be shipping in cars before the end of this year.
What would be the range of your twizy if you would exchange the present 18650 for the newer 21700 cells in the same volume battery box?
you cant buy 4680 cells yet and Tesla are having problems getting them as energy dence as the 2170 cells so these would be better size wise as well.
@@markreed9853 same question, different battery cell - even the newer 18650 are more energy dense than the ones used in the twizy's
Andy I wanna get a Twizy whats the "chip" you use for them ? Who makes them ? Cheers
It's called Powerbox by a guy called Kenneth Nielsen, I think he's still doing them...
@@andykirby Nice Thanks. 👍
100% agree, I feel the mood is changing out there even amongst some of the electric fanboys.
I would love an EV tbh but the price is just ridiculous and given the gov are considering pay per mile and not offering help to buying them anymore plus all the issues you mention, it's just not happening.
Like you I love my ebikes etc and think these are a big part of the solution.
Re: "Like you I love my e-bikes etc and think these are a big part of the solution"!
Make the most of it, the ridiculous gathering storm of why they are sooooo dangerous is gathering.
Another good vid - thanks, what range does the Twizy give?
Maybe 30-40 miles.
@@andykirby Would it be cheating to put a suitcase generator on the back seat 😲
Ford reckon they'll have a battery with a range of 1500 miles by the end of the decade. But the technology and infastructure just isn't here at the moment unfortunately.
Also, 90% of people's journies are within 5 miles of their home, so something like a Twizy would be ideal. Have you checked out the Citroen Ami yet as well Andy?
Ami is poorly built and really nowhere near as well thought out as it should be
Larry bud. I have stage 4 brain mets and the fourth company said they will have a cure for all cancer in 10 years. Mate I'm in it as much as possible and I'll believe that when and if I see it. Don't belive everything that's told to us.
You might call it a rant Andy, I think your video was well informed and based on years of living with battery operated vehicles. You make a lot of clear and sensible points. We also have to consider how we generate our electric which powers these vehicles, where and how the batteries are sourced and made etc. The vehicles are FAR from "green".
And what are we saying drilling for oil and burning it is green
@@stuartodell2828 Have you any proof to the contrary? Please link me to it. You most likely believe that fuels come from fossils too.
Agreed, they just don't make sense yet, practically or financially. The law for ebikes/scooters badly needs updating. In the US Suron's are catching on as the law is so much less restrictive. I thought we left the EU so we could set our own legislation, ie not be held to the EUs low 250 watt limit.
I agree with all you say about the small vehicles but I'd sooner see someone choose an EV SUV over a new petrol one as they are subsidising the R&D for the future and getting the worst polluters off the roads. They often also have room for home charging. For the rest of us who don't need to keep up with the neighbours, we need something smaller and cheaper for day to day and rent something/train/taxi for longer journeys.
Spot on analysis. If you buy a big e car you are mainly buying a big heavy battery that needs big energy to move it about. My ebike uses about 4Wh per mile ..I think a Tesla uses about 96 and probably moves one person to the shops and back. eCars must be small and light with no frills to be effective! You are right.
A lot of the price of new EVS is also interest rates especially as a lot of people lease. I paid 2.5% APR back in 2019. Lowest I could see this year was 5% with most around 7%.
I agree that second market makes most sense. I bought a Zoe at the start of the year purely because I got a good deal on finance, but If I had the cash then I would have gone for a second hand one for about 20k.
In Didcot (Oxfordshire) they are running driverless buses to Harwell Technology Campus and back to the rail station using public roads. This gets the go ahead from all the regulatory bodies but still we can't use an e-scooter or a reasonable e-bike to do the same journey. I mean.......
2 years driving Kona 64 kw . Done more than 30k UK miles, no problems at all. Couple times travel to Ireland. Charge 95% at home. Night tariff 9.4p kw charge. 250miles 5£
What do you think about the Wuling Mini? Apparently the cheapest and best selling EV in China ($5k, obviously more in the UK), if they sold them here, pretty sure there would be a huge demand.
Spot on ! 👍
Agree Andy, your right matey....Toyota CEO announced some time ago they were NOT making any more EVs.....🤔😳😏😏🇬🇧
You’re the first TH-camr that has talked about everything I’ve been thinking. I’ve also personally been looking at getting an electric moped/motorcycle but decided I want something that’s safer, more comfortable and better protection against the weather, plus a bit more load capacity. I’m sure there are a significant number of people that would switch from motorcycles or scooters/mopeds to micro EVs and more people that had considered but never went that route (getting a license is a bit of a faff too). You see adverts all over the place for full size EVs but zero for micro EVs. It’s time the government and media pushed micro EVs in the same way it’s pushed full size ones.
Research CNG powered cars 42p a ltr .Twin tank technology takes no room up and CNG is the cleanest burning fuel .In India CNG is made from waste that would normally go to land fill .
LNG which is the same as CNG is even better .
I've run my cars on lpg for years, It's a byproduct of refining crude oil.
Most LPG pumps have been decommissioned in favour of electric charge points.
But I knew long before that the whole climate change thing is just a powerful tool to manipulate the public into pumping money into the economy.
How long do the batteries last and how much when they go ?
10 to 12 years before a battery pack refurbishment is needed, which could cost about the same as fitting a clutch to an ICE car.
@@Brian-om2hh well one ev owner said it was going to cost more than car is worth ?
What I find odd, is how the performance side of EV's is being pushed so hard, so many of them have like 400hp and the Tesla's will do 60 in 2 seconds, why not give them 200hp which is more than enough and increase the range, it's confusing really. I would like an EV, I think I could make it work, but right now it's too early, anything you bought would be surpassed by a better model such is the rate of development
All new cars are too expensive... but secondhand market is getting quite reasonable right now.
It's just 1st gen from most companies tech... this would have been the reaction when we moved from horses to cars... lol 🤣
agree with most of what you say... the point is economies of scale will eventually get us there for large battery EV's.... but yes totally agree we don't all need SUVs or even 5 seater cars, have a look at the cars in China, small city cars with small batteries that cost nothing and get you to and from work... rent a large SUV, once or twice a year and be happy... bikes and smaller stuff, even better, they are 100x if not 1000x more efficient in manufacturing resource/cost, road space, maintenance costs, etc. job done
I like the look of the Twizy.I only have a full bike license with B1 entitlement which gives me the option to drive a four wheel micro car. I just cant access my house by car and the electric charge would be a problem . No mudguards on yours which looks good
Interesting you could drive a twizy on a bike license, i suppose its because it's technically a quadricycle (thats what it says on the V5!) They don't do a huge amount of Mile's per charge but it could be useful if you don't fancy going out in the rain or can't be bothered to put your gear on! They are a lot of fun too😁
why is it that every new electric car starts at £30K...... for a city cat. wtf ?
Take the Corsa Electric. its pricing is a joke.
youd need brain surgery to pay that price
So don't pay that price. Get a pre-reg new one for £10k less than the new cost. Or go for something like the 2016 Renault Zoe with 35k miles on it I saw someone get for £4400 a couple of months ago.....
I couldn't agree more!! They would be useless in a hard winter and not only that your never told about the extra cost of having a two stage charger wired in to the 45 amp side of your consumer unit, wich in a lot of cases the main incoming fuse needs to be uprated to accommodate the situation. I recently had a trip to our local hospital in a hybrid (that was good) taxi driver was telling me of a friend of his that bought a 35k E car like you were telling as about, now three years later when the cells are shot 30K on top to replace them.
I can see a time when perhaps 30-40% of cars on the road are E cars, your still going to need convencional engines in vehicles.
Good Channel "Sound Thinking"👍
I love what you have done to that twiz I'd have one yesterday but like yours as much better than bog standard
Andy, i have a Transit Van that i use for my DJ business, but duing the week i ride my high powered Ebike that i MSVA after watching your video, best thing i ever did.
Smaller cars are ok for some people, but not for others. One of my hobbies is flying radio-controlled model aircraft, and I normally take around half a dozen out for the day. There is no way I could get even one into (say) a Twizzy! What really annoys me is when 'they' review a car, they give the load capacity in litres! Now I'm not in the habit of carrying a hundred or so litres of loose liquid! What I want is the dimensons, length, width, height, in inches/centimetres - and at the moment, only one reviewer, Bjorn, in Norway, bothers doing that, when he's not counting his banana boxes! The same applies to e-bikes. Try carrying a plank in a rucksack on an e-bike! (and then try it on a windy day!) - - On a loosely related topic, I used to watch formula E on TH-cam, but for the last two years, the racing has been banned from UK viewing, although we CAN watch the free practice sessions - what's the point in that? In effect they are blocking the viewing of the very thing that is advancing e-motoring!
You're driving near my home tome and it's a classic example you can cycle from one town down the lea to London or north takes you to places like Ware. You got the cole green way which gets you to Welwyn, Those routes are basically off-road.You've got Euro velo 1 and 2 which take you all round Europe if your up for it. But no one uses them generally maybe on a sunny saturday twice a year.
Instead there's more and more American trucks which are basicaly just huge margins for the car companies and huge cope for the drivers taking up the narrow streets we have as you can see by the end of the vid. Causes potholes all over the place and generally makes everyone pretty misreble. Why would you want to take a truck down our b-roads when you can use a car that was suited for them get an mx-5 :D
Then you think how many ebikes you get out of a telsa battery I did the math a while about but its like 70 to one Tesla.
WIfe started cycling to work this week and she was stunned how much more chilled it is and how often she didn't have to stop.
I hired an EV van for a month. Gave the thing back after 2 weeks because:
When it was loaded for work, the range was dismal. I was getting 50 miles per charge.
I cannot charge at home,.
The public charging around here is dire.
2 hour charge for 50 miles!
On an average day I cover 100 - 150 miles.
I was charging the thing 2 times a day. That's 4 hours wasted plus the time to drive to the charger.
I was having to cancel appointments because I'd be 4 deep in a charge queue.
I also hate the phone app and card thing. Why can't I pay cash like I do when buying diesel?
Many good points Andy but don't rely on the Volvo paper... it's been widely debunked. I have an electric car, would not go back to ICE as a daily driver... I think it's more that you have a change in mindset for car usuage... fortunate to be able to charge at home. Had a few public charger issues in the last 2 years but more sites are opening... more needed in line (or beyond) EV sales. Home charging and servicing are cheap as chips. I had a money pit of an S Class Mercedes... finance of EV half the price of fuel for the Merc... no brainer. Agree that gov need to get their arse in gear for EUCs/scooters etc. Love the channel 👍
I saw yesterday that it used to cost roughly $1500 per kw but now only $120-140 per kw for batteries so with the cost so low, the price is being kept artificially high
That's true to a point but demand for materials has pushed battery prices up. Some of the legacy automakers are making EVs at a loss in an attempt to keep up with Tesla and get a foot in the market. This is why do many EVs are large luxury end cars where it’s easier to hide the extra costs.
I also believe that some prices are artificially high because OEMs are losing money from servicing and parts replacement, which previously they made their profits from. However, in a few years a flood of cheaper Chinese built EVs will shake up the market and I can see some legacy automakers going under.
My '23 Chevy Bolt EUV is fantastic, not expensive ($42K Canadian out the door), and works perfectly for my commute. In the summer I get over 500kms to a charge.
Charging at home, my Bolt costs 1/4 the amount for my commute that my '05 Jetta diesel did. 87% of electricity in British Columbia Canada is from hydro-electric generation, with zero% from coal or nuclear. A Bolt in Canada has 430kms on the original battery, and a growing number in the US have over 250K miles on the original battery with little degradation.
I don't want to drive a combustion vehicle again.
I remember when the Prius hybrid first out there was a monthly charge for buying the vehicle plus a £70 monthly charge for replacement batteries.
Good rant Andy, and living in rural Canada an electric car would be a disaster, for many reasons and distance being the primary one, and towing the camper trailer is another, plus batteries don't like to be charged in -30f temps, then turn on the heater and watch the gauge drop.
Great video, I love the idea of going all electric but I cant get the range or cost to work for me. I'm sure some can who earn more, but I just cant sadly, so I'm sticking to my current van and older hybrid SUV as our family vehicle.
charger out of service sorry🧐🤪
I was in Renault Garage in Cambridge last Friday. They have the last brand new Twizy in the UK now.
Selling for £22K ! I kid you not
@@NewWorldHoarder in 2020 I seriously looked at buuying a new Twizy but the garage wouldnt budge or do any deal on a new Twizy for £9k.
the dealers will not do any deal on an EV car at the moment. the ball is in their court.
However buy a petrol or a diesel car, they want shot of them off the forecourt and cant bend over enough
22k for a souped up mobility scooter, crikey
@@Superfandangoo someone will pay that
My wife uses her Twizy every weekday for her 30km round commute for work. We also have an ice car that we use for a big shop or to go beyond Twizy range. Having said that, we rarely go further than 150km round trip. Charge points where we live here in Cyprus are not that common as yet but I think if I could get a cheap EV with 200km range that would be ideal. A rhd Dacia Spring might work for us.
Also good point about ebikes and escooters. They recently passed legislation here on them. I believe there's no tax or insurance but they have to be limited to 25kph, rider is supposed to wear a helmet and hi viz jacket. The bike/scooter has to have brakes, lights, a bell and good tread on the tyres. I haven't seen many wearing helmets or hi viz as yet. I wouldn't mind if they upped the speed limit a bit as long as 3rd party insurance for faster ebikes was made compulsory.
Diesel was cheap so people bought them, government put diesel tax up. Same is happening with electric (popular enough to remove incentives), then we buy petrol vehicles to overcome that and... petrol tax goes up. Nothing whatsoever to do with being "green". I walk a lot, perhaps that will be taxed soon!
On a brighter note, I like the idea of Twizzy type vehicles, who normally needs to haul around a ton or two of metal for just one seat?
Well dependant on your phone apps methane monitor When you are out walking that could be up for debate.
Hell we could even have number plates tattooed on our heads and anpr cameras on footpaths complete with fart detectors warning of a near cataclysm.
@@DUB-sential I don't have a mobile. If I feel the need to communicate when out I carry an amateur radio handheld.
I won hundred percent agree Andy. It’s like so many other things today people think short term and don’t get the complete answer.
Watched something on new manganese batteries yesterday, 600 mile ranges on a 100/120kw pack which should be a game changer.
600 mile range laboratory stats can't be true until tested in the real world. It may be 600 miles when the key is switched on but when coupled to a mass of computers to power entertainment systems, heater systems, AC systems, power steering, lights and other electrical components will cause that battery range to drop. Driving on roads will hills and various weather conditions (cold weather etc) will also effect the range.
I agree mate. Imagine if you were to rust protect every single car every year compulsory on an mot and made more durable parts, the longer its lasts, the better it is for the planet. However, not for corporations
Right, it's a conflict of interests, car companies want to sell you a new vehicle even though your old one is fine.
@@andykirby exactly. I saw a video about Rowan Atkinson who mentioned the same thing. I do think it has a place with smaller transport, like the ebike, but for longer transport it causes mayhem.
When you start to study the system we live in mate it all becomes very clear what is going on in London and Oxford. Just like Sadic Khan sending letters to people up north telling them to upgrade their if they want to come to London lol.
I'm trying to get brave enough to make videos and explain the whole system and it would be good to have a chat and bounce some ideas around. You guys are the type that makes things happen ;)
Apologies for the late reply, smashed my phone and got a new one today ;)
What i like is my tiny jinma j2 drives slow enough to not need insurance just to do the usual grocery runs, and i had em install a proper tow hitch so i can be able to handle even things cars and some pickup trucks cant haul such as a few 4x8 sheet of materials. I cant go on the fast highways, but on sideroads its ok if i just pull over to the shoulder to allow faster moving vehicles to pass by, same as what you see with farming tractors on sideroads.
Each year, this car pays off itself even if it was never used, those 1000 dollar yearly insurance payments really keep adding up. Eventually, have enough for a vacation just like insurance brokers have.
The right to mobility!
I completely agree with you about e-bikes and scooters we are ridiculously over regulated and micro mobility should be massively encouraged. I drive a Tesla it’s the best car I have ever owned and driven. Yes expensive but I look at it this way it’s going to be someone else’s next car so on and so on. Richard Symons had a Tesla Model 3 performance for sale just over £20k 😮
No one is going to buy second hand ev's when batteries cost nearly as much as the car
@@stevie-b people are still buying 12 year old nissan leafs - they only do say 60 miles Vs 90 when new. But for small commutes they work. It's not ideal obviously. But people do happily buy second hand EVs
You can get an 18 month Peugeot e208 for £19,000, not quite as bad as paying the new price. Still have to find where to charge it though.
Totally agree, got done last week, riding a 25 kph limited E-scooter on a cycle path, 6 points and 300 quid lighter.
Ffs 😡 where was this?
Totally agree.
Although I've always fancied a tizzy for a bit of fun 😊
Hydrothermal carbonization has been gaining more interest in the last 10 years. Water treatment plants require a lot of energy to operate and the solids are either dumped at the landfill, burned or turned into fertilizer. Hydrothermal carbonization essentially turns sewage into a coal like substance and biogas.
Pre-covid Fully Charged was estimating that EV's will be price parity with ICE cars by about 2025. Not sure if that is still on target but as it currently stands it seems way off. Also I think some manufacturers *cough* Ford *cough* are using EV's as a way to up their brand into the next price bracket. I'm not sure that will work but we seem to be losing their smaller cars like the Fiesta and Focus to this policy although I expect there might be other factors too. Where is the small town runabout for less than £20k?
Also don't forget the gov will have to implement some tax system for EV's due to how much duty they will lose on petrol and diesel. I expect this will come at some point between 2025 and 2030.
I'm still with my diesel currently but would probably go for a hybrid next if there was one with over 50 mile range, was on par spec wise with my current car and didn't cost the earth as a 2nd hand buy.
Under £20k used, Zoe, BMWi3, Kia eNiro, Fiat 500e, Nissan Leaf, Hyundai ioniq are a few.
New Ford Focus starts at £26k, New MG4 EV starts at £26k
Road tax on EV's April 2025 but zero at the moment
@@markreed9853 Hi Mark, yes you are correct you can get these small about town cars 2nd hand for under £20k but I'm thinking of new prices for a fiesta equivalent. Which then means the 2nd hand price after a few years will be 15k or under.
As for replacing mine, I've got a top spec Mondeo, yes I'm a Mondeo man, which would have cost about £36k when new and I got that for £12.5k at 4.5 years old. I struggle to see a second hand EV of the same size being anywhere near that currently or even at the new price.
@@robthomas7232 check the ones I posted above the Zoe is quite a big car actually, as much space as my Focus. No not exactly under £20,000 but Tesla Model 3 are just over now and MG4.l with electric you will save a lot more on maintenance and fuel if you can charge at home.
I think the public charging alone is a massive problem, they need to be in every other parking bay before we have capacity for everyone to be in electric cars.
No we don't, because not everyone will use public charging, or charge up at the same time. There are around 8000 petrol stations in the UK. Lets assume each one has (for argument's sake) 10 pumps. There are around 32 million privately owned cars in the UK. That works out at *hundreds* of cars for each petrol pump..... How on earth does everyone manage? They manage because not everyone needs to fill up at the same time. If they did, petrol would run out. Now do you get it? I charge my EV up every 8 to 9 days. Did you think they had to be charged up every day?
I thought it was a statutory regulation to have mudguards on wheels?
Not on quadricycles
Cheers Andy, lighten up on the regulations (30MPH?) maybe insurance OPTIONAL then it will be cheap and bought by sensible people. harden up on the idiots though.
Good stuff Andy well said 🤜👍
Everyone seems to hate on Renault especially, and French cars in general, but ive always thought they have been really ahead of their time, forward thinking and the only cars on the road that look a bit different a bit more stylish than all the cookie cutter cars that all look exactly the same from brands that got lazy and complacent over the years 😊.
I totally agree Andy the whole electric car thing is counter productive , it’s all nonsense I will keep going in my 97 Volvo 940 ok hardly small but smaller than a van and does the same thing , great video 👍
Tend to agree with you Andy! Not a driver myself, but do ride an e-bike as only do a less than 1 mile commute (I could even walk it easily!). There is no proper infrastructure in place for charging e-cars. Your Audi can do 300+ miles and be topped up anywhere. If it was an e-car you'd have to plan your journey and pray that as the battery gets drained the charger is working and available on your scheduled stops. Not to mention that unless you're on a supercharger, it will take a good few hours before you can be on your way again. Not a problem on your Audi!
They ban e-scooters and control the power on e-bikes (which really isn't enough for a big lad like myself), which are ideal for shorter journeys of 5-15 miles. They want cars out of the cities and overcharge for parking and us to use overpriced, irregular and dirty public transport or tuck our shopping under our arms and walk home. And then they wonder why town centres are on the decline.
The government really hasn't thought this through. (I know , right!). All well and good trying to meet your CO2 target, but it needs proper infrastructure, planning and the technology to be much cheaper beforehand.
And don't even get me started on the CO2 cost to manufacture all those batteries, that only have a life of around 5 years or less before they need replacing not to mention the cost to replace them, for a car that cost an extortionate sum of money to begin with!
And this is why I don't drive!!
Remember you are living in a small country where everything is a few kms away. Where I live it’s hundreds of kms to the next town with no charge stations and -30c winters. I’ll stick to my diesel truck thanks.
Had a nissan leaf for last 6 years, I did 40 miles a day the saving in fuel pay for the loan on the car.
This wide-ranging life-cycle assessment (LCA) examines the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of passenger cars, including SUVs. Performed separately and in depth for Europe, the United States, China, and India, the analysis captures the differences among those markets, which are home to about 70% of global new passenger car sales. It considers present and projected future GHG emissions attributable to every stage in the life cycles of both vehicles and fuels, from extracting and processing raw materials through refining and manufacture to operation and eventual recycling or disposal.
Results show that even for cars registered today, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) have by far the lowest life-cycle GHG emissions. As illustrated in the figure below, emissions over the lifetime of average medium-size BEVs registered today are already lower than comparable gasoline cars by 66%-69% in Europe, 60%-68% in the United States, 37%-45% in China, and 19%-34% in India. Additionally, as the electricity mix continues to decarbonize, the life-cycle emissions gap between BEVs and gasoline vehicles increases substantially when considering medium-size cars projected to be registered in 2030.
theicct.org/publication/a-global-comparison-of-the-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-combustion-engine-and-electric-passenger-cars/
Probably a very unbiased article...
@@Charlemagne1367 You're right, it seems unbiased to me
@@radiosification 🤣 An institute lobbying for "clean" transportation.
100% agree with you. But... more luxury car - more tax. Any personal electric car - no tax.
Road tax, officially known as Vehicle Excise Duty (VED), is calculated based on the CO2 tailpipe emissions of your vehicle, its list price and which year it was registered in.
Pure battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are exempt from VED - until April 2025.
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) currently pay reduced VED.
Any vehicle (excluding BEVs) with a list price of £40,000 or above will incur an additional premium rate for 5 years (starting from the second time the vehicle is taxed).
Very well said, I live in Spain in the country and an electric car would be impossible. Due to charge points and the terrain around me. In towns where they are bringing in emission limits most homes are flats or apartments so no infrastructure to create enough charge points, you’d literally have balconies with extension leads trailing !!! Plus the Spanish tend to keep a car way in the 350.000km mark or drive them till they die. You get a fabulous range of old school classics driving around it’s like a time warp. Twizy’s make sense or the 80’s do for commuting and their charge time but the 40’ or Citroen Ami is useless unless you never leave your town as the roads are too fast. EVs are still worthless in the long run
pure ignorance. Maybe watch a channel like fully charged instead of andy.
@@EthicalTech I’ve watched plenty thanks I was commenting regarding where I live and what would work better 👍 plus I know many who’ve ended up with as company cars Etc none of them are totally satisfied and they feel like there are making do! I’d also add that none of them could afford one either
I Agree to an extent. We have a Leaf, its awesome, we have done 111k miles in the last 4 years its saved us £20k in fuel. Sure its range is relatively limited compared to some but its relatively cheap.
On the point of range, most people don't need the range most of the time and even then rule 91 of the highway code says stop every 2hrs for 15 mins which most EV can do.
the volvo article has been debunked.
Public charging is OK and keeping up with demand, just about. We have been all over the UK in our leaf and never have an issue, We are in bournemouth, been to cornwall, newcastle, west wales.
we do have a massive problem with SUV, so many manufacturers putting out £40K+ electric SUV. bonkers. We don't need massive cars. I would love a carver for town use, similar to the twizzy but cooler.
E-scooters MUST be legalized.
Rubbish. I can drive a thousand miles on a tank of diesel up a mountain in 20" of snow 😂😂😂😂
@@FullFact548 towing a caravan full of huskies, the mother in law and kitchen sink?
@@AdrianChapmanlaw Of course, and with 4 flat tyres 😉
@@FullFact548 and a Christmas tree!
@@AdrianChapmanlaw and 6 turtle doves..
Yes i agree with you, its the same here in Ireland. I do have an ev myself and solar so i charge at home for free in the summer months, i dread the odd long distance driving. LUUUUV that car Andy. Great vids thanks.
I travel a lot by motorcycle and I am currently in Azerbaijan.
In my experience once you have got past Austria an EV is effectively useless.
Large parts of the world still use diesel and north Europe seem to be fixated by net zero.
You need a donkey and a horse there.
You compared the range on your Audi TT to that of a Renault / Peugeot. An equivalent car would be model 3 long range which has equivalent range and better performance. Also, EV's are still in their infancy - in 5 years prices will be lower. Just saying.
My 2017 TT has about the same range as my 2019 Model 3 long range. My 2015 Elise is less efficient than her sisters.
8:32 every Morrisons charger I’ve ever come across says temporarily out of service 😡
Your bang on mate
You can have something with 2 wheels that goes at 25mph without you having to pedal. It's called an electric moped. You just need to be 16 and complete your compulsory basic training.
Car still looking cool Andy 😊
Honestly it seems to only be in the UK we have pricing parity in North America
What is that saying I always heard, Rip off Britain!!
Absolutely love my minimalist Honda Fit Hybrid. 1k, klms per tank. 😊
Competition should eventually bring prices down.
In the UK as in the rest of the world there is not the electricity infrastructure to accommodate the level of EV's the government insist has to be in place by 2035/50! E-Bikes or single seat enclosed vehicles would help reduce the strain on the system!
They should be encouraging smaller and lighter forms of travel than the current level of EV's rather than penalizing them! E- Bikes should not be restricted to 250Watt motors as they are too small for many riders. 1000Watt motors should be the norm! Combined with an increase in the speed limit to 30mph that way they would be less of a hazard as they would be keeping up with the rest of the traffic ! Local registration of them with the council and frame tags along with either personal or bike insurance would put them on a closer footing to all other road users!
Most people agree with this, many want smaller, cheaper, more efficient EVs. A 2+2 Citroen Ami, with far better streamlining and a 20Kwh battery back should be possible for about 12k, just look at the Chinese market for loads of examples.
Hi Andy, just subscribed 👍Great video, agree 100%. Here's a few more issues with electric cars: Already obsolete technology (soon to be replaced by water, hydrogen, ammonia, biofuels and ZPE), 50% depreciation within 12 months, charging infrastructure - not fit for purpose, queues at charging stations, numerous faulty chargers, numerous throttled chargers, expensive public charging costs + fees (BP), no canopies when charging 'electric' vehicle in the rain, extra tyre and brake wear costs, no soul, ridiculously high insurance (and rising).
Garages won't touch them, breakdown services can only recover on flat-beds (if your lucky), soon to be banned from multi-storey/airport/station/ car parks and ferries (many countries have already started imposing bans and restrictions: Switzerland, China, France etc.), terrible for the environment: ch*ld labour/water table sulphuric acid & cadmium contamination/60000 miles before carbon benefits, no scrap value, no recycling facilities for batteries.
Prices crashing, manufacturers discounting heavily to shift unsold stock, Ford, GM, Toyota etc., cutting back production and postponing targets and investing in alternatives (see above), range anxiety, stress, arguments at charging forcourts, randomly bursting into flames and exploding, locking people inside (and outside), randomly accelerating unable to stop (MG), harvesting ALL your personal data: mobile phone contacts/videos/photos/conversations/sexual orientation/political views etc., tracking and recording your every movement.
Expensive service charges, long charging delays added to every journey, stepping stone to government control and 15min neighbourhoods, half the people in the UK live in flats and terraced housing unable to fit home chargers, cost of electricity rising, scrape the battery housing on a speed bump and EV is written off by insurance companies, raising the cost of everyone else's insurance (thanks), buy a Chinese made EV or any EV battery and you're 'directly' supporting slave labour and other human rights abuses.
Incentives and subsidies are being (have been) removed (hence GM & Ford's current losses), road tax for EVs to be be introduced shortly (next year possibly), unreliable/faulty software (e.g. iPace), Tesla's insane parts and service costs, no access to proper service manuals/DIY not possible, 100000 gallons of water required to suppress an EV fire followed by 15 metre isolation for several days, sea water damages battery (don't drive on a beach), very little luggage space compared to ICE vehicles.
Can't be towed, breakdown services use DIESEL generators to recharge flat EVs 🤣, frozen door handles in winter (can't force them like on ICE cars (pun intended)), quoted ranges are meaningless since manufacturers recommend only charging to 80% from 20% technically using only 60% of available range, EVs are dangerous to pedestrians who are not paying attention due to being virtually silence when approaching, Taycans 'smoke' when being charged! Just a 'few' of the reasons why EVs are a huge white elephant.
Agree way too expensive and forget the entry models nobody buys those so actually they are all over £30,000. The cost of batteries have gone down from $1500 to $150 per K/h there are less moving parts compared to an IC car, so just a racket.
What are you driving
"its the batteries" no. its the greed. my Leaf with a 30kWh battery cost 29k€ in 2016. since than, the price for a kWh of battery has actually gone down significantly. yet a new 40kWh car thats basically the same under the hood still costs 30k€. so as far as i am concerned, its simply the fact that they don't want to make cars like the Corsa E or e208 too appealing for people who usually buy cars that size. you know, someone who mostly drives around town but than goes on one long-ish trip. a Corsa E could be about 400-500km from home when it needs its second 27min charging stop if its driven at a moderate pace. so its not an awful car for someone who goes for an occasional road trip.
Why build 4.2 V8's were you can't really use that's power,limit people to 2.0L petrol or diesel
absolutely…. and limit size and pedestrians are much worse off being hit by a huge 4x4 than a normal car
They are totally agree but e-rev's are on the right path I think so far this year I've put in £60 and the rest on just electric having a genny on board is amazing for going anywhere I want cost of car was 6k only thing I've had done was new tyres lol amazing
What have you got? Sounds like an i3 or something?
@@andykirby vauxhall ampera old now but jesus it just save me a ton of money man
Don't comment much but totally agree with everything you said👍
Electric cars are not expensive, check videos of the Chinese car shows. The problem is that a lot of tax seems to be added when they arrive in Europe. Seems like our governments are keeping them of the market to protect our legacy car industry that doesn't want to go electric.
The amount of C02 this country produce is a drop in ocean compared to China which is opening new power stations every week and polluting and no one ever mentions that at all. They aren’t reducing it . Hydrogen is way fill up drive off
Your spot on about price.. but Didn’t Volvo pretty much retract it’s statement.. more so when challenged?
Your power source day to day counts, their comments centred on production and they admitted they were overly pessimistic. Batteries are produced and transported once -fuel is always delivered mostly huge distances every time you use it ..drilled cleaned heated refined pumped shipped road transported and pumped in ,ect my electric comes from the windmills over the road ..from whatever source evs use up-to 90 of the potential energy produced at scale efficiency’s.. compared to 40-50 % with IC.
Well said Andy totally agree with you.... Great rant
What people haven't thought of. If they pull the power away and we cannot move.
If there was no power, you couldn't fill up with petrol or diesel either..... And where would you want to go, if there was no power? Pub? It's shut, no power. Work? It's closed, no power.......
If you can't charge at home and don't have a time of day tariff, or you drive 200-300 miles per day an EV probably isn't for you at the moment.
I do 8,000 miles per year and most days less than 20 miles so charging at home simply isn't a problem, I have charged away from home twice in the last 2 years and one of them was while waiting for a wall box to be fitted.
If I need to travel the length of the country, I'd probably hire a car, probably a petrol, maybe a long range EV, it all depends on the price at the time.
I also agree that EV's cost too much, but I suspect cars like the MG4 are going to change this shortly, and with EV residual prices on used cars equalising with petrol cars, 2nd hand EVs are becoming more reasonable.
Having said that, I'm not sure that your whole keep my current car and save emissions argument works, especially if you are doing higher mileages.
According to an autoexpress producing a petrol car causes 5.6 tonnes of CO2 vs 8.8 tonnes for an EV. According to VW a golf emits 140g/km (which is probably an underestimate... its VW).
* At 8,000 miles per year, I would make up the 3.2 tonne CO2 difference in 1.77 years.
* At 12,000 miles per year, I would make up the 3.2 tonne CO2 difference in 1.18 years.
If you don't agree with your car producing this much CO2, its 2.4kg per litre of petrol burned and 2.7kg per litre for diesel.
This ignores the actual production emissions for petrol, which can add another 640g to 720g per litre making
* petrol production and use 3.1kg per litre and
* diesel production and use 3.3kg per litre.
My old diesel Insignia used just over 1,000 litres of diesel per year every year, which was about 3.3 tonnes of CO2.
So produced:
a) the production CO2 cost of an EV every 2.6 years, and
b) the difference in CO2 between producing a EV and a petrol car every year.
It's taken MANY years to build out reliable fueling stops for ICE vehicles. It will also take MANY years to build out reliable fueling stops for electric vehicles but if people followed your advice, no electric vehicles would be bought and then why build places to charge EVs if nobody is buying them?