Most professional sports have some timing system that is employed to prevent drawn out competitions. PGA just need to add stroke penalty for delays and when someone drop 10 shots a round for slow play, the game with improve. Shot clock starts when the previous player ball stops. Time stops for a rule check and limit the number of rule checks allowed.
Some of the slowishness is due to how far they hit it now. Consider the short par 4's - 'normally' hit off, walk to ball, wait for green to clear, pitch on & putt out. The pros have to wait for the green to clear before they can tee off, most still having to pitch and putt. Add in similarities with the par 5's and the time adds up.
Well, you forget that LIV has 45 or so playing whereas the PGA in rounds 1 and 2 have 125+, then get it down to what 75, please....Start earlier, and start adding strokes( with good reason, not with 1-2 groups ahead standing around ahead of you)....plus CBS and NBC want to show Live Golf on Saturday or Sunday, where again, really NO TV for LIV....Really????
I just completed my role as a volunteer walking scorer for the American Express tournament and I can tell you the without a doubt the groups (of 4 players - 2 pros + 2 amateurs) played the course (Nicklaus Tournament course) in 5+ hours. My first assigned group played amazingly fast even when the group in front caused a few minute delays in the front 9. The back 9 moved at speed and completed the round in 5 hours. In all honesty the pros were moving quite fast while the amateurs moving even faster picking up their balls when the score didn't count for that hole. The majority of the time was spent walking (yes walking from ball location to next location). That is 7204 yards from the tips to the pin. Add walking between greens to the next tee, the total walking distance is probably closer to 8500 yards. To walk a flat concrete surface at 3 mph would take about 1 hr 30 mins. With terrain which would slow speeds down that would be about 2 hrs. Adding 3 mins (45 secs for each player in the foursome) for every stop (expect 72 shots) which would total 3 hours 36 mins for a total of 5 hrs 30 mins approximately. Additional time is added for lost balls, rules questions, bathroom breaks, etc. Most players do play quite fast (1 or 2 quick practice swings and go) while a few just take too much time with their pre-swing routines. My second group took a whole lot longer as we waited at every tee box and approach shot. Having said that, every rules official has a regussi (sp) sheet with expected timings for completion of every hole by every group for the group in front to clear. The scoring equipment I use will give an exact time each hole is completed and the time it takes between players to hit their shots. When timing gets way off the player is warned. The Sunday of the tournament I played at a golf course nearby and with a golf cart my foursome took 4 hours to complete the round. Why I am telling you all this is that you cannot compare TGL with PGA (or outdoor normal golf) because there is so much difference in how they each are played. Personally I play every Wednesday at my home course and complete it in 3:15 hrs (it is a shorter course, a foursome and less terrain). I do notice that groups behind us take longer to complete their rounds for unknown reasons. Most state golfing entities now adopt a strategy of keeping in sight with the group in front of you instead of precise timing. It has been found that hole with the same par value may have different timings due to difficulty levels. The final group of the AMEX should have been penalized but there needs to be an understanding of what is happening with the groups in front of them. A normal outdoor tournament is harder to monitor than an indoor TGL tournament. The European Tour had a roving clock on a golf cart which is a good and interesting idea to implement. Thanks for listening
LIV golf only tour taking slow play seriously, with fines and shot penalties cost Blandy 250,000 dollars, Meronk also fined and shot penalties. Its not hard.
As for us amateurs on a championship course for a 4 ball your realistically looking at 4:30 minimum for a medal round maybe closer to 5 just with the length of the course and the walking between holes in some instances
Players not being ready when it’s their turn to play seems to be a big issue. Also pre-shot routines and aim point when putting. How about calling through following playing groups while waiting for rulings?
As these are longer courses 3:15, 3:45, 4:15 for 2,3,4 ball. These guys are top players so they are taking typically 70-75 shots. They need to start timing groups / players. 1st player gets 1 minute to decide shot select club, others then 45 seconds. They don’t play slowly because of the money they play slowly because they have been allowed to play slowly and accept it as normal. If you think about it 75 shots max 1 minute a shot is 1 :15 that leaves two hours to walk 4-5 miles. Easily done
Everything is done slowly in the Philippines. It's very common for a foursome here to take up to 8 hours. I'm a guest in this country and happy to be here but I wind up skipping a few holes each round and trying to make them up at the end of my round. Most groups will not let you play through as they don't understand why they should, it's tough sometimes. But I just smile and try to play my round at my pace.
The only way to improve pace of play is to add penalty strokes for slow play. It could be done by hole. 11 minutes per hole for 2 ball, 13 minutes for 3 ball, 15 minutes for 4 ball. That means 3 ball finishes in 3.9 hours (exception being for rules stop as mentioned by someone else - with limits). Fines do nothing. The payouts for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at the AmEx were $1.584M, $959K, and $519K respectively. So imagine that Straka had 3 holes where he exceeded the 13 minutes per hole, that would have cost him 3 strokes and $625,000 by finishing 2nd behind Thomas (assuming Justin didn't have any penalty stokes applied).
So you think a three ball should play a 200 yard par 3 in the same time as a 480 yard par 4 and as a 595 yard par 5. How long do you allow from green to next tee?
@@glenwood9190 no, certainly not. I was just breaking it down from total time per round to minutes per hole. Certainly, it can be put into appropriate times per par 3, 4, 5, etc. The point was that the rounds are too long. According to some golf experts, professional golfers typically take around 10 minutes to play a par 3, 13 minutes for a par 4, and 15 minutes for a par 5 hole. So on a 3 ball that would be just about 4 hours for a typical par 72 course. This past week the Hero Dubai Desert Classic saw a final round of 5.5 hours, whilst The American Express involved groups taking 40 minutes to play just one hole and the final group taking 5.5 hours with 3 people.
My course in Spain 6012 metres long, 4 hours 15 minutes is the time allocated for a 4 ball, amateurs players not professional. The professionals hitting 20 shots less than the average golfer, plus people to look and find the offline ball's. 4 hours should be plenty of time, slow play first time one shot penalty, second time 2 shot penalty, third time DQ, make it so any slow play makes it impossible to win or top 30 place, repeated slow play miss next event.
How about club penalties for the entire tournament? Establish a hierarchy as it relates to the clubs that have to be taken out of the bag for each penalty First penalty they have to remove their putter. After that you remove an iron for every infraction starting with wedges until you make it down to the driver. Would be way more interesting to watch, especially in a major setting that goes to a playoff
Who gives af? Honestly they switch to a different golfer if they're taking too long and eventually come back to work the shot. From a home viewer's standpoint, slow plays impact is imperceivable..
NBA pro basketball and NCAA college basketball have a shot clock that resets on change of possession, 24 seconds. Imagine if pro golf had a 24 second shot clock: give the first violation by a player just a warning, then 1 shot for the next through 3rd violation .and 2 shots for any subsequent violation. IMO, Patrick Cantlay would have a tough time breaking 90 if this was implemented.
Long past the time to add strokes for slow play. Not just the threats of doing it. Players waiting to line up putts till after their playing partner finishes their shot is ridiculous.
Golf time 3 hr 2 ball , 3.5 hr 3 ball and 4 for 4 ball depending on players walking and their skill level. Waiting for par 5 and the drive-able par 4’s seem to take the most time. The other time waster on the PGA is aim point putting and the time they take on the green.
@@shannonsanders5250 If aim point is implemented correctly it is the fastest method of reading greens. In fact those that are qualified to teach the procedure, not someone who thinks they understand it, explain that if you are taking more than 18 seconds on a putt that requires 4 references points you are doing it incorrectly.
There are a few problems. The networks do not mind because they can sell more ads. There is no incentive for them to encourage faster play. 2nd the 20 min player conversations with a caddy is absurd. Assuming the group in front of you isnt holding you up, you should have 1 mins 30 seconds to hit your shot or you should be assessed a 2 shot penalty, 1 shot is not incentive enough, but 2 will be. I do not think the networks want faster play
I'm guessing the 40min hole was when Bhatia inadvertently played a stroke out of bounds and had to replay the shot. There were a few such sticky situations for other players as well. Referee:"Sorry mate, looks like you're screwed in this situation, but hurry the fuck up!" I don't think so....
Something must be done about this it is ridiculous. There are a few players that complain but mostly I think they are all complicit. They all want to take however long they want to hit it. Shot penalties during the round might focus the mind a bit, first offence one shot, second offence two shots, accumulating through the season and carried over to which ever tour they're playing on, it is player specific not tour specific, I think would sort it out. It's drastic but we need a punitive approach and it has to be impartial so it would require officials on every hole keeping the time. First to hit has 45 seconds max everyone else has 30 max.
A time person per group. As soon as the first golfer hits his tee shot time starts. aThe group has 19 minutes to complete a par 3, 13 for a par 4 and 15 for a par 5. If they exceed the allotted time by 3 minutes, 1 shot penalty, 6 minutes 2 shots. The time keeper will determine who is holding up the group and assign the penaltie(s) to that player. I saw Correy Conners and Anthony Kim playing together and Kim was playing really slow; minutes to make a shot a putt, etc. Ridiculous!
Suggest you look at your times for each of the different length (par) of each hole, assuming you have just made a typo the times, for a par 72 course, 4 x par 3’s, 4 x par 5’s and 10 x par 4’s, you have listed add up to 266 minutes, allowing only 1 minute to get from each green to the next tee is another 17 minutes means a total of 283 minutes or 4 hours 43 minutes. If you meant 13 minutes for par 3, 15 minutes for par 4, 19 minutes for par 5 the times listed add up to 295 minutes, 4 hours 55 minutes, either way both times are much longer than most PGA Tour events save for extenuating weather conditions and courses with driveable par 4’s and shorter par 5’s.
@ So we tweek the minutes alloted for every hole, 8 minutes for a par 3, 15 for par 5 and 12 for a par 4. Total about 3 1/2 hours. You don't time getting from the putting green to tee box. time starts from the time the first player hits his tee shot, for a par three they have 8 minutes to complete the hole, last put on hole stops the clock. If the group ahead is slow, the group waiting to tee of is not penalized. If the the group ahead is slow on par 4 or 5, and players are unable to play a shot, the time keeper can adjust accordingly.and maybe communicate with the timekeeper of the other group to understand the delay.
Unfortunately, slow play starts much earlier than the pro circuits. Have a look at Univertsity and other amateur tournaments. If they want shorten the time to search for balls, I.e. 5 to 3 minutes, they should start enforcing the 40 second for a shot system.
A 3 ball hitting 72 shots each and taking 50 seconds per shot is accounts for approx 3 hours play. Walking at 5 mph is approx 1 hour 15 mins to walk a 6 mile, (9000 yards) course. That adds up to 4 1/4 hours. That should be long enough
Liv is finding ways but the tours in general follow the rules of golf set by the usga and rna. Imo this is totally on the rules makers. They need to change time pars. They need to add stricter time limits per shots. They need to cut down on warnings and so forth. The problem I see is that Whan is one of 2 good leaders in golf-along with Ridley- but whan is a sweet talking money maker; he is not a hardened official who knows how to make good rules; or more exciting competition for that matter; so I’m not holding my breath. A five-some should not take 4 hours. IMHO. And it is absolutely possible if the rules made it so. A two some really should be done in less than 3:3o. But even 3 hours is possible. And it would be soooo good for the sport. The thing to keep in mind is like baseball golf used to be played much much much faster. But over time mannerisms, and yardage books, and talking to caddies, and other things added up and here we are. The rules makers have the responsibility to get the game back to how it used to be played. Players will always use the rules to their advantage. And tours with poor leadership will always defer to the rules makers.
LIV use shotguns, so speed of play is dictated, result 3 1/2 hour 3 balls, and if you drop a hole, straight on the clock, it works. So modern day pros can do it, but the PGA and DP tours do not enforce the clock
I can't understand why there should be any slow play.....any the tee shot you already know roughly how far out you are and picking your next club shouldn't take long......hate the slow players,dq them...🌟🎊🤩🥳
I'm moving away from watching golf (of any brand) on TV. Play is much to slow in the Pro ranks and has spilled over to local play. People watch TV golf and think they must play like the Pros, on public courses things get backed up quickly and leads to frustration by players who follow the times listed for each hole. A 1 ft putt should not take 2 minutes to line up. Get moving!!
Here's the thing, if a pro golfer whos concerned about time comes in second under a player that took way too long and he's not penalized for it, whats that going to say to the golfer who "was" concerned about time. He wont care anymore. PGA...PLEASE penalize, slow play with strokes not money. If pros are given 18 minutes per hole it should take 5.40 hours for 18 holes. I can walk 9 in under 2 hours and thats fun....when im playing decent. 🤣🤪 SLOW PLAY SUCKS!!😡
There is no way that ANY round should take longer than 4 hrs 15 min. I also think that the PGA needs to always play 3 ball. In the past, speed of play wasn’t a big deal. Most of the players played expeditiously. Today, slow play is so bad, it’s making it unwatchable. But I think they like slow play. You can get more BS commercials into the telecast. People are tuning out. I got to the point where I only watch important tourneys. The Masters is the best. I can stream that for free. I put that thing on Amen Corner until the final group go thru. Then I follow them in. I don’t care how long the round takes there. I used to watch the PGA all the time, Thursday thru Sunday. I can’t do it anymore. The amount of commercials makes me want to kick the tv in. Not to mention the inane banter from these stale announcers. They need to force these players to be ready to hit when it’s their turn. Not start to figure out what you want to do. They should be hitting their shot within 20 sec of the last shot played. You get warned once, then you lose a shot every time you break that time. I guarantee that would speed play up. If you are a continuous time breaker, you can’t play the next 2 tournaments. BOOM!
If 12 minutes a hole is & has been the standard for a 4 ball group on a muni then that makes for a 3 h 36 minute round for Joe Schmucatelly & his group of hackers! Extend that to 4 h 15 minutes because these guys suck! Which is just under 15 minutes a hole. If 4 guys who suck at golf can finish 18 holes of trash golf with scores averaging 100 full of 4 putts, slices, 2 & 3 chips, then the damned pros can do the same and break par! If they can’t start taking penalty strokes for slow play! 1 stroke per player in the group for every hole that goes over 16 minutes! That keeps the rounds under 5 hours!
most of it is time wasted on greens ban stradling the putt line you see them marking 18" putts knock the bloody thing in if you can't do that don't bother being on tour
I assume you are referring to Aimpoint when you are talking about straddling the putt line, if you are, I suggest you might take some time to learn a little about this technique for reading greens. If done correctly it is the fastest method to read putts. As for just knocking in 18” putts, I guess you have not played too much golf on greens that are running @ 12-15 on the stimp metre with a few hundred thousand dollars at stake on every putt.
Ok, I'm going to be a bit controversial.... Its my view the most time is wasted on the greens. Here are my recommendations.... 1. Once you start your first putt, must putt out (No marking)....Other players can tap down foot marks 2. No aim point allowed....Its become a cancer 3. Caddies only allowed on green to remove pin then must exist...IE not involved in putting process. Ok, bring on the haters
@@tonybranson5809 No not a hater, just someone who has had some substantial experience at tournament level golf. Having said that I must question the validity of certainly your first two points. 1. A player putts from 45 feet and hits it 8 foot from the hole. You believe he or she should putt out, I wonder whether you would agree with that if you have had any experience putting on greens that are running 12+ on the stimp reading and each putt is worth tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. And as far as footmarks are concerned, good in theory but what about on soft rain effected greens, in match play it is not allowed to play out of turn, and players would much prefer to let someone go first if possible when allowed by the rules, and in my opinion, let’s not forget etiquette, the basic foundation that golf has been built on for hundreds of years. And I sincerely hope for the sake of a few moments we do not lose that 2. Your opinion on aim point is factually incorrect, in reality if implemented correctly it is the fastest form of reading greens. In fact if you are being taught by a qualified expert, not someone who thinks they are, they will tell you if you are taking more than 18 seconds to read a putt with 4 reference points you are not doing it correctly. 3. Caddies, yes, don’t have an issue implementing your idea, but more for making the player accountable for his own skill levels rather than the extra few minutes it is taking for most of the time The biggest problem with time is course layout. Long par 3’s, driveable par 4’s and easily reachable par 5’s in two. Grandstands and spectator management, large fields have an enormous bearing on the time taken, PGA TOUR decided to reduce the size of fields to help and then get criticised, Scrutiny of player rule violations has made it almost mandatory for a player to call a rules official. Yes, time needs to be monitored but let’s not believe that every round is taking 5 hours, and if it is only Professional level we are talking about is it really as bad as the nay sayers would have us believe
You are WRONG fines work --- not $5,000 hand them a stroke and a fine. I am over 70 and this has been a discussion for DECADES. The USGA, R&A, PGA etc,,,, gave NEVER solved this, they focus on anchor putters, and a ton of fluff. Golf is and will die with the average golfer. Solution is simple... A shot clock - no more picnics with the caddies and discussion that never end. Golf is doomed until golf rounds are faster for the pros and it will trickle down.
3 hours for a 2 ball, 3.5 hours for a 3 ball, 4 hours for a 4 ball. MAX!!! Add penalty shots for slow play!
Yeah agree. I was gonna says pretty much the same.
Maybe add 15 mins per each , but ya, this is about right.
That’s what they do at my course shot penalties for slow holes plus a week suspension for Saturday competition
Most professional sports have some timing system that is employed to prevent drawn out competitions. PGA just need to add stroke penalty for delays and when someone drop 10 shots a round for slow play, the game with improve. Shot clock starts when the previous player ball stops. Time stops for a rule check and limit the number of rule checks allowed.
Some of the slowishness is due to how far they hit it now. Consider the short par 4's - 'normally' hit off, walk to ball, wait for green to clear, pitch on & putt out. The pros have to wait for the green to clear before they can tee off, most still having to pitch and putt. Add in similarities with the par 5's and the time adds up.
LIV golf have this right, the PGA and DWP should learn from them!
Well, you forget that LIV has 45 or so playing whereas the PGA in rounds 1 and 2 have 125+, then get it down to what 75, please....Start earlier, and start adding strokes( with good reason, not with 1-2 groups ahead standing around ahead of you)....plus CBS and NBC want to show Live Golf on Saturday or Sunday, where again, really NO TV for LIV....Really????
I just completed my role as a volunteer walking scorer for the American Express tournament and I can tell you the without a doubt the groups (of 4 players - 2 pros + 2 amateurs) played the course (Nicklaus Tournament course) in 5+ hours. My first assigned group played amazingly fast even when the group in front caused a few minute delays in the front 9. The back 9 moved at speed and completed the round in 5 hours. In all honesty the pros were moving quite fast while the amateurs moving even faster picking up their balls when the score didn't count for that hole. The majority of the time was spent walking (yes walking from ball location to next location). That is 7204 yards from the tips to the pin. Add walking between greens to the next tee, the total walking distance is probably closer to 8500 yards. To walk a flat concrete surface at 3 mph would take about 1 hr 30 mins. With terrain which would slow speeds down that would be about 2 hrs. Adding 3 mins (45 secs for each player in the foursome) for every stop (expect 72 shots) which would total 3 hours 36 mins for a total of 5 hrs 30 mins approximately. Additional time is added for lost balls, rules questions, bathroom breaks, etc. Most players do play quite fast (1 or 2 quick practice swings and go) while a few just take too much time with their pre-swing routines. My second group took a whole lot longer as we waited at every tee box and approach shot. Having said that, every rules official has a regussi (sp) sheet with expected timings for completion of every hole by every group for the group in front to clear. The scoring equipment I use will give an exact time each hole is completed and the time it takes between players to hit their shots. When timing gets way off the player is warned. The Sunday of the tournament I played at a golf course nearby and with a golf cart my foursome took 4 hours to complete the round.
Why I am telling you all this is that you cannot compare TGL with PGA (or outdoor normal golf) because there is so much difference in how they each are played. Personally I play every Wednesday at my home course and complete it in 3:15 hrs (it is a shorter course, a foursome and less terrain). I do notice that groups behind us take longer to complete their rounds for unknown reasons. Most state golfing entities now adopt a strategy of keeping in sight with the group in front of you instead of precise timing. It has been found that hole with the same par value may have different timings due to difficulty levels. The final group of the AMEX should have been penalized but there needs to be an understanding of what is happening with the groups in front of them. A normal outdoor tournament is harder to monitor than an indoor TGL tournament. The European Tour had a roving clock on a golf cart which is a good and interesting idea to implement. Thanks for listening
LIV golf only tour taking slow play seriously, with fines and shot penalties cost Blandy 250,000 dollars, Meronk also fined and shot penalties. Its not hard.
Yep
As for us amateurs on a championship course for a 4 ball your realistically looking at 4:30 minimum for a medal round maybe closer to 5 just with the length of the course and the walking between holes in some instances
Bullshit. Those are clown show times. Realistically you should pick up the pace.
Players not being ready when it’s their turn to play seems to be a big issue. Also pre-shot routines and aim point when putting. How about calling through following playing groups while waiting for rulings?
As these are longer courses 3:15, 3:45, 4:15 for 2,3,4 ball.
These guys are top players so they are taking typically 70-75 shots. They need to start timing groups / players. 1st player gets 1 minute to decide shot select club, others then 45 seconds.
They don’t play slowly because of the money they play slowly because they have been allowed to play slowly and accept it as normal.
If you think about it 75 shots max 1 minute a shot is 1 :15 that leaves two hours to walk 4-5 miles. Easily done
Everything is done slowly in the Philippines. It's very common for a foursome here to take up to 8 hours. I'm a guest in this country and happy to be here but I wind up skipping a few holes each round and trying to make them up at the end of my round. Most groups will not let you play through as they don't understand why they should, it's tough sometimes. But I just smile and try to play my round at my pace.
The only way to improve pace of play is to add penalty strokes for slow play. It could be done by hole. 11 minutes per hole for 2 ball, 13 minutes for 3 ball, 15 minutes for 4 ball. That means 3 ball finishes in 3.9 hours (exception being for rules stop as mentioned by someone else - with limits). Fines do nothing. The payouts for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at the AmEx were $1.584M, $959K, and $519K respectively. So imagine that Straka had 3 holes where he exceeded the 13 minutes per hole, that would have cost him 3 strokes and $625,000 by finishing 2nd behind Thomas (assuming Justin didn't have any penalty stokes applied).
Totally agree. Start hitting their scores and the behavior will change
So you think a three ball should play a 200 yard par 3 in the same time as a 480 yard par 4 and as a 595 yard par 5. How long do you allow from green to next tee?
@@glenwood9190 no, certainly not. I was just breaking it down from total time per round to minutes per hole. Certainly, it can be put into appropriate times per par 3, 4, 5, etc. The point was that the rounds are too long. According to some golf experts, professional golfers typically take around 10 minutes to play a par 3, 13 minutes for a par 4, and 15 minutes for a par 5 hole. So on a 3 ball that would be just about 4 hours for a typical par 72 course. This past week the Hero Dubai Desert Classic saw a final round of 5.5 hours, whilst The American Express involved groups taking 40 minutes to play just one hole and the final group taking 5.5 hours with 3 people.
My course in Spain 6012 metres long, 4 hours 15 minutes is the time allocated for a 4 ball, amateurs players not professional. The professionals hitting 20 shots less than the average golfer, plus people to look and find the offline ball's. 4 hours should be plenty of time, slow play first time one shot penalty, second time 2 shot penalty, third time DQ, make it so any slow play makes it impossible to win or top 30 place, repeated slow play miss next event.
How about club penalties for the entire tournament? Establish a hierarchy as it relates to the clubs that have to be taken out of the bag for each penalty
First penalty they have to remove their putter. After that you remove an iron for every infraction starting with wedges until you make it down to the driver.
Would be way more interesting to watch, especially in a major setting that goes to a playoff
The majors should be the only events that play the normal 4 round all day format IMHO
Who gives af? Honestly they switch to a different golfer if they're taking too long and eventually come back to work the shot. From a home viewer's standpoint, slow plays impact is imperceivable..
NBA pro basketball and NCAA college basketball have a shot clock that resets on change of possession, 24 seconds. Imagine if pro golf had a 24 second shot clock: give the first violation by a player just a warning, then 1 shot for the next through 3rd violation .and 2 shots for any subsequent violation. IMO, Patrick Cantlay would have a tough time breaking 90 if this was implemented.
The way the PGA Tour top tier players are withdrawing and skipping events they may be ok with not being allowed to play the next event
Long past the time to add strokes for slow play. Not just the threats of doing it. Players waiting to line up putts till after their playing partner finishes their shot is ridiculous.
Golf time 3 hr 2 ball , 3.5 hr 3 ball and 4 for 4 ball depending on players walking and their skill level. Waiting for par 5 and the drive-able par 4’s seem to take the most time. The other time waster on the PGA is aim point putting and the time they take on the green.
@@shannonsanders5250 If aim point is implemented correctly it is the fastest method of reading greens. In fact those that are qualified to teach the procedure, not someone who thinks they understand it, explain that if you are taking more than 18 seconds on a putt that requires 4 references points you are doing it incorrectly.
All these Pro tournaments have 'spotters' down the course, limit the search time to 1 minute for a lost ball in Pro comps?
There are a few problems. The networks do not mind because they can sell more ads. There is no incentive for them to encourage faster play. 2nd the 20 min player conversations with a caddy is absurd. Assuming the group in front of you isnt holding you up, you should have 1 mins 30 seconds to hit your shot or you should be assessed a 2 shot penalty, 1 shot is not incentive enough, but 2 will be. I do not think the networks want faster play
I'm guessing the 40min hole was when Bhatia inadvertently played a stroke out of bounds and had to replay the shot. There were a few such sticky situations for other players as well. Referee:"Sorry mate, looks like you're screwed in this situation, but hurry the fuck up!" I don't think so....
Something must be done about this it is ridiculous. There are a few players that complain but mostly I think they are all complicit. They all want to take however long they want to hit it. Shot penalties during the round might focus the mind a bit, first offence one shot, second offence two shots, accumulating through the season and carried over to which ever tour they're playing on, it is player specific not tour specific, I think would sort it out. It's drastic but we need a punitive approach and it has to be impartial so it would require officials on every hole keeping the time. First to hit has 45 seconds max everyone else has 30 max.
1 timekeeper per group, 90 seconds per shot, 2 timeouts per round, 1 warning thereafter 1 shot penalty per breech
A time person per group. As soon as the first golfer hits his tee shot time starts. aThe group has 19 minutes to complete a par 3, 13 for a par 4 and 15 for a par 5. If they exceed the allotted time by 3 minutes, 1 shot penalty, 6 minutes 2 shots. The time keeper will determine who is holding up the group and assign the penaltie(s) to that player. I saw Correy Conners and Anthony Kim playing together and Kim was playing really slow; minutes to make a shot a putt, etc. Ridiculous!
Suggest you look at your times for each of the different length (par) of each hole, assuming you have just made a typo the times, for a par 72 course, 4 x par 3’s, 4 x par 5’s and 10 x par 4’s, you have listed add up to 266 minutes, allowing only 1 minute to get from each green to the next tee is another 17 minutes means a total of 283 minutes or 4 hours 43 minutes. If you meant 13 minutes for par 3, 15 minutes for par 4, 19 minutes for par 5 the times listed add up to 295 minutes, 4 hours 55 minutes, either way both times are much longer than most PGA Tour events save for extenuating weather conditions and courses with driveable par 4’s and shorter par 5’s.
@ So we tweek the minutes alloted for every hole, 8 minutes for a par 3, 15 for par 5 and 12 for a par 4. Total about 3 1/2 hours. You don't time getting from the putting green to tee box. time starts from the time the first player hits his tee shot, for a par three they have 8 minutes to complete the hole, last put on hole stops the clock. If the group ahead is slow, the group waiting to tee of is not penalized. If the the group ahead is slow on par 4 or 5, and players are unable to play a shot, the time keeper can adjust accordingly.and maybe communicate with the timekeeper of the other group to understand the delay.
If the television coverage moved quickly from one player to another (like LIV), why would I, as a tv viewer, care how long it takes the pros to play?
Unfortunately, slow play starts much earlier than the pro circuits. Have a look at Univertsity and other amateur tournaments. If they want shorten the time to search for balls, I.e. 5 to 3 minutes, they should start enforcing the 40 second for a shot system.
One way to stop slow play is to do away with the caddies and give the pro's electric trollies. ( no one to talk to then )😊😊
A 3 ball hitting 72 shots each and taking 50 seconds per shot is accounts for approx 3 hours play. Walking at 5 mph is approx 1 hour 15 mins to walk a 6 mile, (9000 yards) course. That adds up to 4 1/4 hours. That should be long enough
Liv is finding ways but the tours in general follow the rules of golf set by the usga and rna. Imo this is totally on the rules makers. They need to change time pars. They need to add stricter time limits per shots. They need to cut down on warnings and so forth. The problem I see is that Whan is one of 2 good leaders in golf-along with Ridley- but whan is a sweet talking money maker; he is not a hardened official who knows how to make good rules; or more exciting competition for that matter; so I’m not holding my breath.
A five-some should not take 4 hours. IMHO. And it is absolutely possible if the rules made it so.
A two some really should be done in less than 3:3o. But even 3 hours is possible. And it would be soooo good for the sport.
The thing to keep in mind is like baseball golf used to be played much much much faster. But over time mannerisms, and yardage books, and talking to caddies, and other things added up and here we are.
The rules makers have the responsibility to get the game back to how it used to be played. Players will always use the rules to their advantage. And tours with poor leadership will always defer to the rules makers.
Ban from there next tournament.
LIV use shotguns, so speed of play is dictated, result 3 1/2 hour 3 balls, and if you drop a hole, straight on the clock, it works. So modern day pros can do it, but the PGA and DP tours do not enforce the clock
I can't understand why there should be any slow play.....any the tee shot you already know roughly how far out you are and picking your next club shouldn't take long......hate the slow players,dq them...🌟🎊🤩🥳
I'm moving away from watching golf (of any brand) on TV. Play is much to slow in the Pro ranks and has spilled over to local play. People watch TV golf and think they must play like the Pros, on public courses things get backed up quickly and leads to frustration by players who follow the times listed for each hole. A 1 ft putt should not take 2 minutes to line up. Get moving!!
People want faster play but also like long par 3s, driveable par 4s, and par 5s that are reachable in 2 shots. Those things slow down the game.
Finally someone that understands the game
It’s ridiculous now and against the rules of golf and golf tournaments. Just exclude the slowest players each week
Here's the thing, if a pro golfer whos concerned about time comes in second under a player that took way too long and he's not penalized for it, whats that going to say to the golfer who "was" concerned about time. He wont care anymore.
PGA...PLEASE penalize, slow play with strokes not money. If pros are given 18 minutes per hole it should take 5.40 hours for 18 holes. I can walk 9 in under 2 hours and thats fun....when im playing decent. 🤣🤪 SLOW PLAY SUCKS!!😡
If it took that long to play I give it up without a doubt.
There is no way that ANY round should take longer than 4 hrs 15 min. I also think that the PGA needs to always play 3 ball.
In the past, speed of play wasn’t a big deal. Most of the players played expeditiously. Today, slow play is so bad, it’s making it unwatchable. But I think they like slow play. You can get more BS commercials into the telecast. People are tuning out. I got to the point where I only watch important tourneys. The Masters is the best. I can stream that for free. I put that thing on Amen Corner until the final group go thru. Then I follow them in. I don’t care how long the round takes there.
I used to watch the PGA all the time, Thursday thru Sunday. I can’t do it anymore. The amount of commercials makes me want to kick the tv in. Not to mention the inane banter from these stale announcers.
They need to force these players to be ready to hit when it’s their turn. Not start to figure out what you want to do. They should be hitting their shot within 20 sec of the last shot played. You get warned once, then you lose a shot every time you break that time. I guarantee that would speed play up. If you are a continuous time breaker, you can’t play the next 2 tournaments. BOOM!
Put them in carts
The TGL is a horrible joke. I guess “exhibition golf” is okay….but only if Tiger says so.
If 12 minutes a hole is & has been the standard for a 4 ball group on a muni then that makes for a 3 h 36 minute round for Joe Schmucatelly & his group of hackers! Extend that to 4 h 15 minutes because these guys suck! Which is just under 15 minutes a hole. If 4 guys who suck at golf can finish 18 holes of trash golf with scores averaging 100 full of 4 putts, slices, 2 & 3 chips, then the damned pros can do the same and break par! If they can’t start taking penalty strokes for slow play! 1 stroke per player in the group for every hole that goes over 16 minutes! That keeps the rounds under 5 hours!
most of it is time wasted on greens ban stradling the putt line you see them marking 18" putts knock the bloody thing in if you can't do that don't bother being on tour
I assume you are referring to Aimpoint when you are talking about straddling the putt line, if you are, I suggest you might take some time to learn a little about this technique for reading greens. If done correctly it is the fastest method to read putts. As for just knocking in 18” putts, I guess you have not played too much golf on greens that are running @ 12-15 on the stimp metre with a few hundred thousand dollars at stake on every putt.
3 hours 2 men 3.5hours for 3 ball 4 ball 4.5 hours
Ok, I'm going to be a bit controversial.... Its my view the most time is wasted on the greens. Here are my recommendations....
1. Once you start your first putt, must putt out (No marking)....Other players can tap down foot marks
2. No aim point allowed....Its become a cancer
3. Caddies only allowed on green to remove pin then must exist...IE not involved in putting process.
Ok, bring on the haters
@@tonybranson5809 No not a hater, just someone who has had some substantial experience at tournament level golf.
Having said that I must question the validity of certainly your first two points.
1. A player putts from 45 feet and hits it 8 foot from the hole. You believe he or she should putt out, I wonder whether you would agree with that if you have had any experience putting on greens that are running 12+ on the stimp reading and each putt is worth tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. And as far as footmarks are concerned, good in theory but what about on soft rain effected greens, in match play it is not allowed to play out of turn, and players would much prefer to let someone go first if possible when allowed by the rules, and in my opinion, let’s not forget etiquette, the basic foundation that golf has been built on for hundreds of years. And I sincerely hope for the sake of a few moments we do not lose that
2. Your opinion on aim point is factually incorrect, in reality if implemented correctly it is the fastest form of reading greens. In fact if you are being taught by a qualified expert, not someone who thinks they are, they will tell you if you are taking more than 18 seconds to read a putt with 4 reference points you are not doing it correctly.
3. Caddies, yes, don’t have an issue implementing your idea, but more for making the player accountable for his own skill levels rather than the extra few minutes it is taking for most of the time
The biggest problem with time is course layout. Long par 3’s, driveable par 4’s and easily reachable par 5’s in two. Grandstands and spectator management, large fields have an enormous bearing on the time taken, PGA TOUR decided to reduce the size of fields to help and then get criticised, Scrutiny of player rule violations has made it almost mandatory for a player to call a rules official.
Yes, time needs to be monitored but let’s not believe that every round is taking 5 hours, and if it is only Professional level we are talking about is it really as bad as the nay sayers would have us believe
You are WRONG fines work --- not $5,000 hand them a stroke and a fine. I am over 70 and this has been a discussion for DECADES. The USGA, R&A, PGA etc,,,, gave NEVER solved this, they focus on anchor putters, and a ton of fluff. Golf is and will die with the average golfer. Solution is simple... A shot clock - no more picnics with the caddies and discussion that never end. Golf is doomed until golf rounds are faster for the pros and it will trickle down.
I agree. Stroke penalties would definitely be way more effective.
I now can't watch golf unless I've recorded it, as I you really have to fast forward all of the time wasting BS !!
Slow play and the terrible crap the commentators carry on with and the loss of players to LIV shows the PGA is dying