xTool F1 Ultra's New Conveyor System Reviewed! How Accurate is it?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2025
- The F1 Ultra’s conveyor belt accessory is the first in the laser industry. Will it be everything we hope it will be for batch processing or will inaccuracy make it a risky prospect? I run through a gambit of tests and TRY to make it fail to understand its capabilities. #businesslaser #fiberlaser
xTool F1 Ultra
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Very helpful! My F1 Ultra arrived yesterday and my conveyor (woah that box is long!) arrived today as UPS guy forgot to bring in the second box yesterday. ;-)
Oooo have fun! You know I have all of xTools machines but I find the f1 ultra is my go to machine as long as the item can fit. Speed and precision!
Great video bro!
Appreciate it!
Another great review and just what I wanted to know!!! Thank you.
You’re welcome thanks so much!
Can't thank you enough for your great videos. The best out there.
Hey, have you tried engraving a brick? I have had customers ask about memorial bricks? Just wondering?
Thanks Mark! I will give it a try this afternoon and post it to the f1 ultra Facebook group after so you can see a pic.
@@BitnerBuilt You rock, bruddah'! Can't wait to get my F1 Ultra delivered!
Posed to fb, yes it can and VERY deep quickly. I likes lots of passes over a slow move. 100% power at five MMS achieves a black glass, 100%, 100 MMS, 20 passes, which is fast on a galvo, achieved .55 mm in depth clean, if you’re making this is a memorial brick you’d probably only want a third of that depth.
Out of curiosity, I wonder if a consumable wrap could be applied to the belt to allow for white back ground and/or alternate to avoid any burning of the belt? Maybe I’m looking to solve a problem that doesn’t exist…🤷🏽♂️. But great testing and the point you make about it skipping items is GREAT! I can totally see this a huge value add-on! Just batching out things would be a huge time saver as well!
I will give it a try and let you know, I think it would need to black as that’s what the algorithm is programmed for but I’ll try a color of something. I’m not worried about it occurring during a batch process, but you definitely can hurt the belt during a long feed item process because it’s not utilizing the camera at that point. It’s just blindly doing what you’re telling it to do.
Nice video, thanks for putting in the effort to really test
Thanks Paz
Thanks!
WOW Thanks so much! Very kind of you!
Great information. I am going to see how my work flow is going to be but it nice to this accuracy in case I need to add this to my flow. Thank you for taking the time doing this.
Thanks! Yeah, it all really comes down to what you do, for if this is a purchase for you. I’m not a production shop mass producing things for Etsy so my need for this might not be as high as somebody who needs to crank out 500 of the same branded item For company, where I see this absolutely shining
This is awesome. Can't wait to get my hands on the machine and conveyor. Have you done batch processing on pens?
Appreciate it! No I’m holding onto anything curvy for when they release the curved engraving in the software currently we don’t have that in the beta so hopefully pretty soon!
Thanks for the content do you have a link for an Australian store/distributor
I checked their site and it said the Australians should be ordering through the United States site, I’ll put the link below for that. If that doesn’t work, please let me know and I’ll contact my person there directly. USA Store: www.xtool.com/products/xtool-f1-ultra-20w-fiber-diode-dual-laser-engraver?ref=5nhxhssx&
Thanks for the informative video, happy to know it will skip material rather than waste it!
Thanks! Yes was very happy to see that
Very cool great video as always Justin
Thanks Jim!
That's bad ass!, I bought the p2 and f1 combo and a month later the started the pre orders on these things. Wish I would have just bought the p2 and got this but none of us knew.
It is! if you do batch work this things going to be your money machine!
Excellent and informative video. Thank you
Thanks very much, Mike!
As far as the slate coaster skips... could it be an issue of focus or height? I've had coaster blanks be quite a bit off as far as depth and refocusing was required (not on an ultra, still waiting for mine). Great video.
thanks! always possible
A few questions here, Justin:
1) What is a diode & fiber lasers? What do they do or don’t do that they’re different
2) What is a galvo (?) laser?
3) Can you lightly laser engrave a shipping label on a box that’s ready to be shipped VS having to pay for a shipping label printer and the label paper to print shipping label? Etsy seller here, so just wondering 😊
4) Xtool currently has a combo package deal of the F1 and the S1. Do you know if they might have have a combo promo deal as well with the F1 Ultra and the S1?
5) Are the laser heads interchangeable between their (Xtool) machines? For instance, can I install the metal cutting laser that comes with the F1 Ultra unto the S1?
Thank you, Justin! God bless
Sure.
1. So in the world of lasers, there are diodes, which can work with a lot of organic materials like wood leather, some solid color acrylics, things with codings on them like a metal business card that has a powder coat or a Tumblr with a powder coat. A fiber laser can work with metals and some plastics. (Some plastics are dangerous to laser) and then there are CO2 lasers, which can do most of what diode do but also clear glass and clear acrylics.
2) galvo is much faster then your typical laser that is on a gantry system. Gantry moves, the laser physically around the unit, a Galo uses a mirror and just rapidly moves the mirror to reflect the laser into the correct spot.
3. Technically yes though it would be logistically easier to out the label in first then put it on the box after. This will take MUCH longer than a printer however.
4. Possibly but in all honesty, if you’re going to pick another to go with the ultra it would be the p2. That’s a co2 so you’re gaining abilities that the ultra doesn’t have. The S one is a fantastic machine, but it’s just a larger bed for the diode.
5) the S1 itself, sells interchangeable heads, but only for the S1, the S1 can have modules that do diode lasering up to 40 W and there is a IR module that can lightly mark metals. This fiber laser can go deep into metals and even cut some thin metal, so it’s a much more powerful metal laser. you really need to assess what you’re looking to do to better decide which machines are better for you. This ultra, especially with the conveyor is great for projects the size of your hand or smaller, you can batch out tons of jobs quickly with this machine and you can engrave on metals fairly deeply, if you need to do a lot of larger stuff than the S1 or the P2 is a better choice. If you need to do some metal work, but just occasionally and not very deep, you could just get the S1 with the IR module and swap them out as needed if metal work is not something that you need to do, the P2 is overall the best machine. I own all the actual products and I think at this moment I only really need to use the P2 and the ultra to cover every single type of job. The others are now a little redundant for me personally.
Could dedicated lighting improve the camera performance?
The ultra does have dedicated lighting inside the machine that shines down on the work surface
I assume that the skips could be corrected by then doing one at a time on the ones skipped?
Yes correct 👍
Or you can start a new batch with the one skipped as the shape that you base it off of, it might be slightly different than the others
You had me wanting to buy this until you said the processing was in the cloud, so the detection feature works as long as the server is up. Company goes out of business or says it is too old to support(its been done in as little as 3 years for some companies, with fanboys agreeing). um nope!.
Hey, I get it. I get why they had to do it also, using the batch feature on my other lasers is not super accurate when it’s done natively in the software, in order to get it super accurate, they obviously needed something a lot more robust. If it wasn’t 100% this wouldn’t work at all. So for them, I’m guessing it was a we can’t do it or we have to do it this way decision.
@@BitnerBuiltsorry but you are wrong. It could easily be offloaded to local pc.
@@ct1freak It really can. I think at this point we are all aware of what local AI processing is capable of, even on relatively standard gaming setups.
@BitnerBuilt I was absolutely sold on this thing and even considering building a channel around it until the end of your video. Handing over the processing to the company side is not a great idea. Not only due to the concerns raised here but what happens when they deem a graphic someone wants to use as objectionable and refuse to allow it to be used. Or even, what happens if they decide to change their terms after the fact and mine user submitted work for their own company use without credit or compensation. If a company like adobe can do it then no company is above suspicion. And that is assuming that this isn't already written into their terms.
Then there was the blurb about everything being great as long as you are using it the way it is supposed to be used, and believe me, I get it, but all I thought of when I saw this thing and things like it were ways I could work around its limitations to make it do things I need it to do. My hope is that those were just your words as a creator sharing with us and not some jargon that the company pushed to include. I for one really like when the creative maker space comes up with fantastic new ways to use equipment in ways it may have never been intended but if this thing and the community surrounding it are just color within the lines types then I am not interested.
@@erikkayV right, it's def the biggest downside and for me a hard pass. Too high a probability of getting left out in the cold when they inevitably shut down
@ct1freak I mean, they don't even have to shut down, their servers can just go out in the middle of a big job.
Pretty impressive tool indeed, dude! 😃
Thanks for all the testing!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks MC you too!
Hi, the function that automatically detects the various pieces works only with the Conveyor or can also be activated without it?
It’s automatic as it processes the first item
Is this xTool F1 Lightburn compatible?
The unit itself and the rotary are however the conveyor is currently not, they are working on it as this is the first and only laser with a conveyor system so it’s not part of the lightburn software. No eta on release of that per my info.
Thank you for ansering my question. I have another one. I havent seen any videos yet of people testing the metal cutting to I guess the extreme of what it would cut. I know this can cut aluminum, brass, and stainless steel but are there other metals that it can cut?
I am sure it can cut others but it’s limited to thin “0.04mm “
Would be curious if you can laser a design like on a batch and then add names etc on it later.
Of course you could, batch run “high school track meet xyz date” first then at the event only have to engrave name event place etc, would cut down the individual engraving times. Or a slogan and then just add the persons family name etc
Can you cut larger pieces of leather with the conveyor?
You cannot cut with the conveyor apart from you would damage the conveyor itself. They do not have the software options to select cut when you utilizing it as a safety precaution.
What about fumes? I noticed that it’s open while engraving.
There is a built in fan on the back of the unit, when not using the conveyor, no fumes, when using the conveyor if your doing wood or other flammables, there’s a little fumes but if you have it hooked to an inline fan like I do, I didn’t smell anything. It’s a smaller work area and your not cutting when using the conveyor but of course yes it’s now opened to be careful in this regard
Can you try a batch process with edge to edge photo on business cards using a protective sheet underneath? Curious to see if the sheet will affect the ability to recognize the materials. Great video!
Sure, I can try that later tonight when I’m home, if you can post that in one of xTool groups, that way I can post you a pic after 👍 I do see one giant hiccup there, which is after the conveyor advances twice your protective backer is going to fall off, now that wouldn’t be the case if it was something that was like a film that was applied to the bed, but that film would need to be black as to not mess with the batch processing camera, and I don’t know if that film is actually going to be thick enough or durable enough to protect the bed from damage so for this test for you I’m just going to run it with a black piece of hardboard behind it
Will do. So you’ve already found that it has to be a black surface for the batch processing to read accurately?
@@Sekhmet131no it’s an assumption I’m going to test as well
@@BitnerBuiltHow were the results?
@@DavZellworks but anytime your using a backer, it’s going to fall off as well so you will need several backers to keep placing under as it advances
How accurate is the placement on the objects to be engraved? I use 34mm wooden disks, and have to make 144 to 3k of them at a time in a day, and right now that involves jigs to place 4 at a time for accuracy. If i can get this to be sub .5mm repetitive this could save me a massive amount of work.
Its really obvious when a round design is off center in placement on round objects.
In all my use of it in the past 2 months it’s been incredibly accurate or it skips. I will cut out some circles in the next few days and give it a test for you when I have a few min
Do you tjino they will find a way to switch batching from the cloud to a device?
Unsure - the way they are doing it is working well, this is the only thing they have ever done cloud between all their devices so I assume they felt they needed to.
I have been trying to find someone that has tried moving the object to get something bigger done, either through the F1 ultra or planning and working in pieces. Like how we used to print banners with inkjet printers by printing pieces and then taping them together. Would you please try that for me?
So on the conveyor that won’t technically work, it has a maximum length in the software. “Could” I do a full length engrave and then reset the item to right where it left off and then do another run yes, but your looking at very very high probability of leaving a tiny gap. Now depending on this design that might not be an issue, you would need to ensure you leave a gap in the design
I wonder if the issue with the S might be because it couldn't figure out top from bottom? Deciding which is "top" for orientation might have been tricky
I actually added the square to the top and the circle to the bottom of the S, to indicate that. It really came down to help skinny it was. I gave it to their engineers to review and recognized each one of the shapes of different. Since it is an AI learning algorithm though overtime will get better and better. I’m sure they’re going to push that into the algorithm since I sent it to them.
Does it work with designs that bleed slightly beyond the edge of the item being engraved? and does the laser burn the belt if you do?
Hmm I will have to try but yes it will damage the belt, you can put a metal plate on the belt to accommodate but obviously the plate will fall off after advancing two times
@@BitnerBuilt Thanks, I do aluminium business cards and a lot of the designs are edge to edge so I add 1mm bleed to my designs. I get quite a few bulk orders so the conveyor would be very useful. Thanks for making your video! I've subscribed.
Can the F1 or F1 Ultra engrave hand tools? Chromoly Wrench, socket or Ratchet?
Absolutely you can! I was also just playing around a few minutes ago with some old chisels stripping off the rust and making them look brand new again takes about four seconds to clean a tool
Will this need to be online if your using it ar a craft show with no conveyer belt?
All functions of the machine can be done off-line without Internet and can even be done without a computer attached if you save the files to a USB stick. The only exception that requires Internet is using the batch processing function with the conveyor belt. Everything else does not require Internet so you should have no problem at a show with this model, you wouldn’t be using the conveyor belt show anyway it can only engrave the exact same thing on the exact same item again and again
It would be nice to hear if Carl is able to engrave on the F1 with the knowledge you shared.
Oh yes he was, in the end it was whatever organic based coating that is on it you have to strip off with the diode laser first then fiber or ir pass after.
great video! I will test my conveyor soon.
Have fun!
Great stress test!
I was caught off guard by the cloud comment. If I lose internet, will I lose the ability to do batch processing? Not an uncommon occurrence when the wind get crazy.
Thanks for doing all of this work. I hope the games went well for the kids!
Thanks! yes so its an ai algorithm that's doing the visual batch processing. think of it as one big brain that's going to keep learning and refining each time someone batches. I asked the engineering team about this last night (after I was done with the video) and they said the more clean and clear images it gets the more accurate it will get over time (less skips) - yes they did well! my one son didn't make the top 6 team this time, he's 13 and went up against 16 yr olds but he will work hard and try again in 2 years for the next round! Still very proud of him!
@@BitnerBuiltthanks for the insight here, I think that raises questions for me regarding data security and how the images it captures of our objects and our designs are being used. I presumed it was using the computer to do the vision detection. Not the cloud.
@@mattedmunds6473 on all usage it’s on machine except for the conveyor batch processing. It’s using an AI server to learn the shapes and improve accuracy as more users use it. (The current on app in comp batch isn’t super great) so for my usage I’m very happy with the way they’re doing it obviously if you’re using something that’s very sensitive and that’s something you care about you might want to read their terms of service
@BitnerBuilt OH HELL NO!!! I have a HUGE problem with this. I did NOT buy a GF, and never saw any mention of ANY cloud based computing (except for the AI -based image creation). THIS. WILL. KILL. SALES!!!!! Offer it as an option for better results, sure, but DO NOT REQUIRE IT. I want it in the software on MY machine, and I guarantee that at least 99% of the people will take issue with this. Seriously, all other personal objections to cloud-based software aside, I do not have a strong WIFI signal in the garage, where I plan to use the machine, and the batch processing on the conveyor is a basic function of the machine - it should NOT require cloud-based processing.
@@amywarren1706hey I understand your concern especially if you have bad WiFi, I didn’t know it was cloud till I used it and asked. It is only on that batch conveyor feature, I just turned off my WiFi and all other machine functions work. They obviously needed the capabilities of an AI server in order to be able to accomplish the task to any reasonable quality, I’d look to the batch process on the P2. That’s done on computer to illustrate that it’s not very good. If that’s a dealbreaker for you, I would contact them directly. Does it bother me, no not at all but I I do understand how that can be offputting for some with restrictions.
For batching why have the laser in the middle of the conveyor? I get it it wont allow longer then 500mm in normal operation but if batching having more conveyor before the laser make more sense or no what am I missing?
I placed it based on the instructions and mounting bracket that attaches it to the base to keep it still, you bring up a very good point though I will try when I’m home later moving the conveyor belt over, I wouldn’t move it. 100% all the way over but I think you could definitely offset it more, if you moved it all the way over to the edge. There might be some instances when items are half falling off that then interfere with the current process you would need to account for that.
@@BitnerBuilt Yep thanks and of course leave a few inches outside the lasers view... otherwise valuable conveyor real estate wasted. Good news is the way you mention it it is not indexed to a specific spot so the adjustability is there it seems.
That cloud processing makes this a no-go in my opinion. How long will they support the machine? If they decide to stop, production stops.
I hear ya, I would point out it’s just the batch process on the conveyor accessory that uses cloud, all other functions of the machine itself run local on the comp and even off line
Can thos machine do 1mm deep engraving on metals like aluminun, magnesium or brass?
1mm? I haven’t tried that yet only .55mm theoretically yes as the laser can be programmed to move lower with the engraving but in all honesty for those depth I would look at a 50-100w fiber. Normal consumer and small business users rarely need to go to depths like that until you get into specialty requirements, at that point a more powerful commercial machine would be better
@@BitnerBuilt the thing is that from what I've seen the f1 ultra is almost the perfect machine for my use case. I really just a deeper engraving from a fiber laser. Also it would be great if it can also do "laser foil stamping" like the Roland LD-80 does. I have not seen anyone try that on youtube.
@@RTCDigitalS yea it is a great machine and for many people all they will need in metal work. All the extra features especially the conveyor make it a excellent choice, I was only being honest in the deep engravings, if that’s what a person needs then they might need to look at a more powerful one. I will look into that foil stamping, sounds cool!
Can it engraved mild steel? Like 1018 and 1117.
I haven’t tested it with steel I knew the composition of specifically but I have several different plate steels I used under projects to catch bleed and both engraved as well even out of focus so I would make an educated guess of yes but not 100%
Please try engraving carbide mayerial
Will do 👍
Great video! You mentioned the cloud. Are you saying I can’t use the conveyer offline?? That’s not good.
Internet is required on the conveyor for batch processing specifically everything else is local on the machine without the need of Internet. If you’re somebody that goes out to shows, I wouldn’t assume that you’re gonna be doing batch processing on site because you can only do the exact same product with the exact same item. Every single time, batch processing to me is I have an order of 600 dads that I have to put the same logo on but for some I can see that as an issue
@@BitnerBuilt thanks
Specifically, the batch process with the conveyor is required to use the cloud everything else with the machine is off-line and can’t even be local with the USB stick.
I another person has mentioned on here. You had my attention until you said it was cloud-based… For people like me who live in a real area that don’t have access to Internet that is a problem… The other question I was going to ask and it may be at this point is There any possibility they’re coming out with something that is rotary on a conveyor?
Oh I totally get it on the internet thing, it was something I deduced honestly as I hadn’t read it anywhere. The machine itself won’t have any issue as it’s all computer or even with just a usb stick but for batch on the conveyor you need internet. So if you think about rotary on a conveyor, it’s only going to last for one advance and then that rotary will fall off the conveyor on advance 3, unless your referring to a tumbler slowly moving forward so it can do the a full 40oz. It currently doesn’t do this but I’ll suggest it to their engineers, not sure though if there will be enough height with the height of the conveyor added now that I’m thinking of it
@@BitnerBuilt it wouldn’t necessarily have to have a rotary tool that moves on the conveyor. It only has to move up to the conveyor up the conveyor to the rotary where it falls in and is lasered once it’s lasered then it can have a discharge kicker to kick it out the other side of the conveyor worst case scenario get a Chinese engineer they’ll figure out how to do it and do it simply but I love that conveyor belt concept as well as the production model of this. I believe if they could get this tuned a lot better and they rotary figured out it will greatly change the laser marking industry, a longer line of conveyor I think would be better too, but if not, I think a person could easily fix a way simply to have an automatic loader. They can drop many items down and then place fairly simple. If you could call me, I would appreciate it. You can reach me directly on my cell phone at 660-216-6676. Thank you.
Wait so you can not use the Camera without internet?
You can use all functions of the machine without the Internet, except for conveyor batch processing. Conveyor batch processing is done using an AI server to recognize the shapes so you have to be connected to the Internet for that one function.
Wow.
Thanks so much.
Ever since I saw this conveyor for the first time I kept wondering how good it is in terms of accuracy.
Yet almost no other video thoroughly tested that.
I am so annoyed of my current laser (A...stack X20) because there's
a) no way to frame really accurately and
b) even if you try really hard, e.g. with a jig and positioning based on coordinates, the consistency is just not there - it will just be off randomly by 2-4mm whatever you do.
And don't even get me started of the lightburn camera feature: what a waste of time and money. I bought 2, one generic cam and then the original A...stack cam with a stand and it's just utterly useless.
But I have to say one thing: I believe you missed to test something that's important to me:
The test with the business card and also the wooden keyhanger was a rather small object only "roughly" positioned in the middle (The business card: you really didn't put any effort into centering).
That would be my request: try a shape that almost fills the workpiece on all sides to allow understand if it's possible to center accurately (on the first piece) and if it repeats that accurately.
Try engraving a coin or a round piece of wood with a circle that has a 1mm smaller diameter than the workpiece.
I am really curious.
Anyway, thanks for this really, really, really great video.
Thanks! I’m right there with you on positioning jig cam in lightburn, I did all the same as you until I moved over to xTool lasers good positioning systems (probe) and cameras make the world of difference in use. I’ll give that a try
Nicely done
Thank you! Cheers!
LMFAO, Carl Johnson sent you a track and field medal!... How you kept a straight face?
😂
"There are plenty of lasers in the sea"
On the heads of the frickin' sharks?
Sharks with frickin laser beams are the number one request
how do you get a machine for free just to make a review video and then you can keep it?that is what i heared from other youtuber
You have to establish your channel first . They don’t just give it out to random people, they have to know that they’re going to reach a certain number of people. They have similar interests, that might be interested in their products and that the person reviewing it presents it in a way that the people respond to. I have friends that have had their TH-cam channels for years and never had a single company send them something. 🤷 You then also have to make sure that you’re being honest to your viewers because if you just shill for somebody who sends you something, then you’re gonna lose all your viewers. I’m lucky enough that I get approached every day now by a company, so I’m very picky about things. It has to be some thing that i’m really interested in, I really think it’s cool, I would like to use this thing, I think it’s quality, it fits into a project that I would like to do, and most of all that the people watching my videos might be interested in learning about it. It’s not just about getting free stuff.
@@BitnerBuilt That was a great explanation.That helps me a lot.I would like to ask you another question: I am a long distance truck driver and want stop trucking because want spend more time with my family and working from home. But the problem there is I am working about 70h every week and be gone for about 2 week and stay home 4 days. I have also a laser engraving company but this is not really running because of my trucking. So how can I get out of this trucking job? I am also starting to learn affiliate marketing.Because this is just online and I have to learn how to do this instead of producing always new products. My idea is to finish this affiliate marketing course and then when I have enough income every month stop trucking. Just how to get there? Plus I have also a family wife and 6 year old son.
cool
thanks!
I'm not sure how comfortable I am with possible personally-identifiable information being sent to the Beijing "Cloud" (think names, DOB, blood types, health information, SSN, etc. Hopefully they allow a "local" processing for vision, even if it is slower.
I’ve asked what their processing, I probably won’t get a reply till the 11th from the images they’ve shown me it’s just color coding shape recognition it literally takes the picture and then color codes objects it recognizes as the same, and if it’s the same color of the laser knows to engrave or not
@@BitnerBuiltbased on the cloud comments, does that mean you have to be internet connected to use the batch processing on the conveyor?
@@rcarroll05 the machine can work entirely off-line without the Internet except for conveyor belt batch processing that one process requires the Internet because it’s using an AI server to analyze the photo quickly detect shapes and then send it back down to the machine to tell her what to do. Some people have expressed concern because when they’re out of a show or something, they’re not gonna have Internet, but the batch processing conveyor belt system only makes the same thing again and again, so honestly that’s something that you would do before going to a show, and then only take the F1 ultra without the conveyor belt to the show to do individual engraving for customers as needed
@@BitnerBuilt I knew that it didn't need the internet to normally process and I agree with the use case of not taking it with you. They've just touted "Internet connection not needed to use our lasers" and now that has changed I guess - for this one use case. You were the first one to mention it so that kind-of just caught me off guard. Thanks for being so thorough on your videos.