Amazing App. A use a Kaleido Roaster, infrared electric equipment, so was easy to me to finding my MJ/hour. I've entered the imputs, weight, etc... And set the T_Inlet to match the total roasting time... I got impressed how precise was the Yellowing time - 30 s difference (but it's a very rellative chose driven by human criteria) and the crack was only 3 seconds different. I'll try the suggestion of "2-step match"... Thanks! I'll run some diffente tests at it and the real roasting
Hi! I saw the app at the site and I was very interested in it. But after also watching this video, I was wondering about the use of it. Do you use it before roasting or it is a general algorithm to know where you are going and what to expect from different roasters? Maybe if you have sample roasted a coffee to use this tool to scale up for production?
I, and others, use it to explore "what if's". For example, I wanted to know if complicated multi-step roasts can be accomplished by 2-step roasts - which I why I added the 2-step output. I also think it helps explode a number of limitations with current roasting setups. So, rather than wave one's hands to talk about roasting, the model lets you see what is and isn't important in a roast. I've learned a lot from it and have realised that "first crack" is a non-event that should be called "last gasp". I wrote an article on this for Barista Hustle and, not surprisingly, it caused some fuss. First crack is supposed to be fundamental, yet the evidence is overwhelming that it's incidental. How to replace it? With a CO2 sensor that signals the onset of "chemistry".
@@stevenabbott3685 But isn't the CO2 release connected with the first crack? It is very interesting not to connect a very delicate procedure with an event (FC) that it is debatable and not easily distinguishable but then again, development time is still mallard reaction. Αny link for the article at Barista Hustle?
@@georgevgenis1494 Plenty of roast don't crack, maybe only 10% of beans crack anyway, and there is no reason for CO2 onset and first crack to be strongly related. So let's switch to the significant signal, when significant chemistry is happening to the beans rather than an indirect signal that is only used because it's simple ... and because people assumed that the crack was significant whereas it's a last gasp.
@@stevenabbott3685 Couldn't agree more. That's why you see most roasters smelling coffee vigorously on either side of the first crack to smell the chemical reaction rather merely waiting for the FC and other physical observations.
@@GBRoasters Thanks for that. It's funny that in all the papers I've read, roasting videos I've watched and all the conversations I've had, no one has mentioned smelling the state of the roast. And that's a criticism of myself. It didn't occur to me to step outside my science box (focussing on CO2/CO chemistry) and wonder whether some sort of "aroma sensor" (other than the skilled human) could detect significant moments in the roast. Thanks for getting me out of my own bad thought habits! Steven
Yes.By "combine" my priority would be to calibrate the app against a real Artisan chart then to validate it by changing conditions in the app and seeing what happens with the data from Artisan. But there are some complications. First, the app has its flaws which are steadily being fixed. Second, as I mention, the values measured by Artisan don't seem to me to be "real". Those with fancy external air supply roasters have a real IT so the app should work pretty well. But the majority have measured parameters that make little sense to me. The most recent version of the app has the TBT. I'd hidden this in previous versions because I didn't have confidence in it, but some academic reasearch suggests that it's correct. We all have a lot to learn, especially me!
The ultimate benefit of any roasting software is to make better tasting coffee. But taste preferences are different and roaster probes and measurements are as well. So from a sensory aspect the main question is, what to change in a roast profile to get wanted or to get rid of unwanted aromas. Yes, I think this would be very interesting: to validate it by changing conditions in the app and seeing what happens with the data from Artisan. And for a real workout the question remains whether the roasting machine is able to do the changes.
Very useful app, hope it will continue to be updated
Amazing App. A use a Kaleido Roaster, infrared electric equipment, so was easy to me to finding my MJ/hour. I've entered the imputs, weight, etc... And set the T_Inlet to match the total roasting time... I got impressed how precise was the Yellowing time - 30 s difference (but it's a very rellative chose driven by human criteria) and the crack was only 3 seconds different. I'll try the suggestion of "2-step match"... Thanks! I'll run some diffente tests at it and the real roasting
Hi! I saw the app at the site and I was very interested in it. But after also watching this video, I was wondering about the use of it. Do you use it before roasting or it is a general algorithm to know where you are going and what to expect from different roasters? Maybe if you have sample roasted a coffee to use this tool to scale up for production?
I, and others, use it to explore "what if's". For example, I wanted to know if complicated multi-step roasts can be accomplished by 2-step roasts - which I why I added the 2-step output. I also think it helps explode a number of limitations with current roasting setups. So, rather than wave one's hands to talk about roasting, the model lets you see what is and isn't important in a roast. I've learned a lot from it and have realised that "first crack" is a non-event that should be called "last gasp". I wrote an article on this for Barista Hustle and, not surprisingly, it caused some fuss. First crack is supposed to be fundamental, yet the evidence is overwhelming that it's incidental. How to replace it? With a CO2 sensor that signals the onset of "chemistry".
@@stevenabbott3685 But isn't the CO2 release connected with the first crack? It is very interesting not to connect a very delicate procedure with an event (FC) that it is debatable and not easily distinguishable but then again, development time is still mallard reaction. Αny link for the article at Barista Hustle?
@@georgevgenis1494 Plenty of roast don't crack, maybe only 10% of beans crack anyway, and there is no reason for CO2 onset and first crack to be strongly related. So let's switch to the significant signal, when significant chemistry is happening to the beans rather than an indirect signal that is only used because it's simple ... and because people assumed that the crack was significant whereas it's a last gasp.
@@stevenabbott3685 Couldn't agree more. That's why you see most roasters smelling coffee vigorously on either side of the first crack to smell the chemical reaction rather merely waiting for the FC and other physical observations.
@@GBRoasters Thanks for that. It's funny that in all the papers I've read, roasting videos I've watched and all the conversations I've had, no one has mentioned smelling the state of the roast. And that's a criticism of myself. It didn't occur to me to step outside my science box (focussing on CO2/CO chemistry) and wonder whether some sort of "aroma sensor" (other than the skilled human) could detect significant moments in the roast. Thanks for getting me out of my own bad thought habits!
Steven
Very nice
Would be very interesting to combine this APP with the ARTISAN roasting software.
Yes.By "combine" my priority would be to calibrate the app against a real Artisan chart then to validate it by changing conditions in the app and seeing what happens with the data from Artisan. But there are some complications. First, the app has its flaws which are steadily being fixed. Second, as I mention, the values measured by Artisan don't seem to me to be "real". Those with fancy external air supply roasters have a real IT so the app should work pretty well. But the majority have measured parameters that make little sense to me. The most recent version of the app has the TBT. I'd hidden this in previous versions because I didn't have confidence in it, but some academic reasearch suggests that it's correct. We all have a lot to learn, especially me!
The ultimate benefit of any roasting software is to make better tasting coffee. But taste preferences are different and roaster probes and measurements are as well. So from a sensory aspect the main question is, what to change in a roast profile to get wanted or to get rid of unwanted aromas.
Yes, I think this would be very interesting:
to validate it by changing conditions in the app and seeing what happens with the data from Artisan. And for a real workout the question remains whether the roasting machine is able to do the changes.