I agree with your assessment of SNW. As a career military i would add that i dispise the friendly and/subservient relationships between superior officers and subordinates; the latest episode was the worst when Pike asks Uhura what to do. Although friends, Spock and McCoy knew who was in charge. Even when McCoy would address Kirk as Jim it was never used at the expense of Kirk's authority.
There's a protocol to this. A superior asks for ADVICE, not what to do. When a superior is deferring to a subordinate's speciality, he asks "what do you suggest" and then says "You heard the man!"
Also agree after 20 years in the military. Yearn for some good writing and realistic relationships. In the sixties so many writers had served during WW2 and it showed. Now all these college educated women writers have NO real world context to rely on...other than being pampered. Captains should never be on away teams.
I'm not career military but I was in the military and they would never blow up a station that is vital to defend themselves against a new enemy, the gorn, because an ensign his hearing voices. Pike has absolutely no command presence in Strange New Worlds. He did in Discovery and that is one of the many things that disappoint me about Strange new worlds. I know Anson Mount is a very capable actor. If you have ever seen "Hell on Wheels" you can see he's capable of doing much more than he does on Strand New World.
First of all, thank you for your service. Things you mention bother me too though I never served in the military. In the last episode the one slight defense is that Kirk gave Uhura a strong "reminder" type look when she was took casual in a meeting himself and the fleet captain (Pike). But, then he turned very, very casual with her later.
You don't write your characters to fit the script, you write your script to fit the characters. Characters are more important to viewers than any other aspect of your show, especially when they're well-known characters. In TV, this has been going on for decades, and writers seem shocked when people complain. But it's always a sign that the quality of the show is going downhill.
Depends. For an original work it can be the inverse. If you come up with a heist plot first you create characters to fill the roles for it. But since this is largely about pre existing characters and building plots around them, then you're 100 percent on target.
Pretty much every story is just a re-telling of everything thats already been said before. Characters is what carries those stories. Conversely, a terrible character can ruin an original story.
Thats the only reason I got into it in 2015. I loved that it was the most mature and responsible forward thinking series with only tiny amounts of pretension. It seemed impossible that such a wholesome sincere series existed. All that died in 2009... Now its a higher production and budget CW show in space......Few things have killed my hope for humanity like the slow death of star trek.
To me, the lack of actual human intelligence and maturity is the bigger deal breaker. There is just nothing of any intellectual value in there, it's all purely superficial and uninspired junk entertainment without any deeper meaning or value. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence quite frankly. A show made by uncaring incompetents for consumption by mindless imbeciles.
Like the discovery ep where they persued trust and peace with the klingons over genocide? or the SNW ep where they met an alien race who wanted compassion and someone to see their point of view? or the ep that debated if a single childs suffering is a price to pay for a life of paradise for all? or the LD ep that argues that AI lacked the hamnising element neccisary for space travel?
@@andrewstephen2359 STD's primary philosophy is nihilism. And I haven't bothered watching any SNW, given Kurtzman's track record. And given the examples you provided, I don't think you understand what humanism is. STD has space jesus, which is antithetical to humanism.
Bad writing and incompetence is what happens when you hire on the basis of skin color, politics and pseudo-genders rather than, gasp, ability and experience.
Id disagree, this is what the studios want them to write. Why I don't blame the writers, they suck, but I don't blame them. It's bad management wanting what this shit writing is. Has nothing to do with hiring these writers. If you hire a (diversity hire) and they suck at their job and you still keep them. That's on you not the fact they were a diversity hire because they could have been the good hire even with those limitations.
Never blame the worker for corporations decisions. Even if you dislike them. That's what's wrong with world today. We blame the pawn for the kings mistake.
@@googleifyouseekayu Where exactly did the original poster blame someone? He made an accurate statement. You probably mean well yet you're putting up a strawman nonetheless.
The funny thing is I've heard much of this advice not 5 years ago at good writing classes in some post secondary schools. I'm absolutely astonished how fast and deep woke has been utterly erasing not just competency but inserting outright malice. I can't find any writing classes that teach like this anymore. And based on the need they should be ALL over.
I used to read lots of books with female main characters written by writers living any random place.. But I ran into way to many woke writers that made me start to hate books.. One series I read suddenly added a new character called "Trump" that was an Evil monster.. This character did nothing in the story but each chapter the other characters would just talk about why they hate him for things like Trump having small hands etc... Another writer posted that he could not continue his series becsue Trump the president was in power which stopped him writing... Another complained that he could not write becsue he lived in a Red Area with lots of evil Red Voters... One series I loved with two gay secondary characters already suddenly had another characters announce they were Trans all the time but didn't tell anyone and the sidekick of the MC suddenly dumped their girlfriend and became gay just becsue.. All these writers and others like them had things in common which changed how I bought books.. They mostly lived in certain places like California, Origon, NY, Seattle etc... And many wrote with female characters... So now I look into the writers etc.. Before even trying a book which probably screws a lot of decent writers but I can't trust writers these days... Two writers wrote books were they suddenly changed the MC Gay etc.. In the last part of the book just to own the straight people, they even posted about it after the book was sold for a while how they did it so the people who hated gay romance could not longer return the books.. One made 90% of all male characters gay suddenly... To many writers seem to be insane.. Now at this moment I am reading lots of Korean, Japanese novels as their writers don't do this crap and leave the Woke out except for special stories they promote for special readers...
You nailed the tonal shift between the original series and SNW versions of Spock and how humor was handled. It was loving jabs not pratfall humor at the character’s expense. And yes, the rules set in place by Roddenberry were thrown out the window a long time ago. Yeah he had some wonky ideas for those us more steeped in behind the scenes Trek. But, his many of his rules forced the writers to come up with creative inventive ways to create drama. Which up until 2005 were for the most part were carried forth by the Berman era. SNW isn’t written by fully functional adults with genuine life experiences. It’s written by hacks with perceived life experiences.
It's not just Star Trek largely being written by adult children, raised in an uneventful bubble by pampering helicopter parents, who paid for the pieces of paper stating they're writers. It's the Hollywood norm now.
Subtlety is a lost art. It used to be that a good actor could convey what they were thinking just by the look on their faces. You could get a whole paragraph worth of information just from one look.. As you said, figuring out with what "that look" means makes the whole thing fun, and in my opinion makes it much more personal.
The problem is, is that people have to be paying attention to catch such things. Entertainment to day is largely throw away space fillers. We live in an ADD world where no-one has the time for subtleties.
I agree. And sometimes an actor won't even need facial expressions to get things across. Take Edward Norton in Crusade: he was wearing an iron mask all the time, and yet he was far more expressive than Orlando Bloom could ever hope to be.
TOS was written in such a way that character development could take place without taking huge amounts of screen timt. Real Uhura and real Sulu are examples of well fleshed out deeply defined characters despite limited screen time and not a lot of backstory
They live on the Federation flag ship, should have it easy thanks to technology but the stakes are life and death - and they have important positions in the most competitive environment humanity has faced. And they're good at it. How much motivation and back story do I need to have my time wasted on? What part needs explaining? What audience do they think they're targeting? Anyway - yeah. You're absolutely correct.
You're a braver man than I am if you bothered watching it in the first place. Regrettably, the safe bet has been to ignore what Hollywood has placed before us for the past decade or so. If you ask for a pepperoni pizza and I hand you a piece of broccoli on toast, I shouldn't expect to be praised. The public doesn't care about the strike in Hollywood because they do less damage to the franchises we enjoy if they aren't working.
Sex, the final frontier These are the voyages of the Sexship Sexlez Its five year scissoring To explore strange new quips To seek out new pronouns And new gender bending To boldly go where no genderLez has gone before.
Yeah, it's not a piece of broccoli on that toast - it smells much worse. And they expect you to be grateful that it has sprinkles on it. May the strike go on long enough for all the wokies to starve to death.
@@esecallum Space, the final woke-tier There are the voyages of the wokeship Wokerprise Its woke mission To explore Strange Woke Worlds To seek out new retcons and woke snivilizations To wokely go where no they/them has gone before!
I managed to get half way through the last episode and decided I'd had enough. It was the most cringeworthy thing I've ever seen. The guy playing Spock can't act for shit, and the way they're treating his character borders on the sacrilegious. This *ain't* Star Trek. 🙄 🍄
Actually in that episode, everyone was acting horribly. An we know most of them (except the Uhura character) can act. So I blame the director. The acting through out that episode was low B movie level. I do agree otherwise the writing is sacrilegious and seems to be more character assassination except for female characters. The female characters are just poorly done period.
No one could top Nimoy. It's an impossible task. Quinto had a slight resemblance to Nimoy but he couldn't capture the essence of the character. Nimoy created that.😮😮😮
@@nunyabizness6595 When you know just how animated Leonard Nimoy was in real life, then you can appreciate just how much 'acting' it takes for him to play a totally deadpan character. Same thing applied to Christopher Judge and his portrayal of Teal'c in Stargate:SG1. When The Rock is in a movie, he's just playing The Rock- in *everything,* and playing yourself requires very little 'acting', but when you're playing a character that's the antithesis of your own, *that's* when you show your *true* acting chops... 🙂 🍄
@@dennismoore1116 Quick word of advice mate- *never* start a sentence with "actually", as it makes you come across as either- A) an arrogant, condescending twat, or B) a condescending, arrogant twat. Neither of them are a good look, and I know it's not the one you were trying to portray. I gotta disagree with you though on one point- you said that "most of them (apart from the Uhura character) can act" and I'd love to know what evidence you're basing that claim on, because it sure as shit ain't come from ST:SNW! They're *ALL* diabolical- with the possible exception of Anson Mount and Rebecca Romjin, as neither (despite both of them being the 'stars' of the show) of them have been onscreen long enough to be able to tell! So add the writers to the list of guilty parties for this shitshow too... 😉 🍄
Spock is written like Sheldon from Big Bang. The "nerd" crowd that watched Big Bang Theory (that was really about mocking nerd culture) seem to love this type of episode because Star Trek is a meme to them, it's all "meta".
@@200wattstudio8 Lets not give the writers credit for being jocks, that implies at least some level of athletic prowess, but they certainly were not nerds. I think of Big Bang Theory as "nerdface". Jokes about nerds, not for them.
No they weren’t nerds or jocks. They were the types of people who took on other people’s personalities because they didn’t have one themselves. The second “nerd culture” is fully tapped out these people will leave its dead husk and go to the next thing.
Agreed. I can't watch this any more. The storylines don't seem at all like science fiction, or social commentary or philosophical reflection which were hallmarks of earlier Star Treks. It's more like a badly-written soap opera. Pike and Spock have been completely emasculated: Pike rarely appears on the bridge and seems to spend most of his time cooking. Spock moons around over his various love interests like an teenager, but I've yet to see him do any science. M'Benga and Christine Chapel go around beating up people. Annoying, rude junior officers are constantly second-guessing everyone and opining at length about their personal issues. Where, actually, are the Strange New Worlds we're supposed to be exploring? What new life have we discovered? Why aren't we boldly going anywhere? Whither, Star Trek?
THIS. This comment sums it up beautifully. The Spock Chapel "romance/hookup" is completely Harlequin romance for the idiot masses. While I might agree that Chapel was a disturbing character in TOS, she's positively awful in SNW. She's a sexual predator to my mind - constantly with the innuendo at Spock creating what is a toxic workplace for him (although he's too dumb in SNW to realize it), dumping men, unable to commit, cannot respect boundaries with a man she can never have and is already taken, is a liar to boot. Is this the emancipated, equal woman that Hollywood wants for the future cuz most of us women do not want this kind of equality. And Uhura does all the science on the ship - for Spock and everyone else. Despite the fact that she is a linguistic expert, not an engineer nor familiar with the transporter. What a disappointment SNW has been. And such great casting too.
Spock’s romance with Chapel was annoying in TOS and even more annoying in SNW. One of the reasons Spock seems so off to me in SNW is he’s constantly mooning over her. I’d much rather watch him bicker with McCoy than chase after either Chapel or T’Pring. Chapel and M’Benga had more chemistry in The Broken Circle and Under the Cloak of War than she and Spock had in all their episodes together.
I've had opportunity (OK, I was coerced) to watch some fan fiction Star Trek, with mostly overweight uberfans of the original series, the acting is abysmal, writing is worse, no comprehension of subtext, they're terrible, but affectionate in their efforts, but even they get the inter relational dynamics better than these slick productions, honestly I can't watch them, but I WON'T watch Discovery, SNW or Picard
I am more than frustrated at this show. The writers have done a tremendous disservice to these characters , actors, and franchise. I appreciate that you're sharing how a lot of people feel. Watching other people that I respect gush over this show and feeling like we are watching two different shows is mind-numbing, and it's getting progressively worse. I actually liked parts of season 1, but there is nothing I have liked so far about season 2. But, I will tune in week after week, hoping it will get better because I love the franchise, and one can always hope.
I kind of like the A story on some of the episodes. But they fill it with it with so much cringe. Like 'you look like a hippy' or 'gas station' or just denigrating the character of Spock every chance they get. Now we are to believe that Jim and George are jealous of each other and have daddy issues? What a disgrace.
Well said, Chato. You've summed up why almost all of our favorite franchises are now garbage. The ironic thing about the writer's strike is that there's almost nothing that I'm looking forward to, so I really don't care. Now that TH-cam Premium is providing a lot of old movies I've been enjoying quality stuff the likes of which you can't get any more. I was unfamiliar with "The Sunshine Boys", which you mentioned recently, and I saw it about a month ago and was really impressed at how good and funny it was. I then learned that George Burns won an Oscar for it after not even being in a movie for the better part of 30 years.
Dear god I hope at least SOME Hollywood writers are subscribers to your channel. You basically just gave a fantastic, free lesson that frankly is worth its weight in gold to those writers who pay attention and learn.
True about the jabs at Spock in TOS, but Spock was always able to send the jab right back at Bones as well. If NuSpock threw a barb back at one of the new crew, I'm sure there'd be internet outrage. Also a note about the scene where the female bridge crew one-up the Starfleet IT crew. One of them says they've customized their console to be more efficient. It may be more efficient for her, but having standardized settings makes sense especially in a combat situation. If said bridge officer is injured, someone else can quickly take control of their station. You don't want someone jumping in the seat and saying "WTF (they'd actually probably say it) is this??" NuTrek is so dumb.
You just don't get it! I'm forced to watch this because it's called Star Trek, and I had this tiny glimmer of hope that it would improve, but it never does! It's like torture, pure agony. Watching it feels like I'm willingly inflicting pain on myself, constantly sacrificing my own happiness. It's like my own personal purgatory, an eternal sentence of enduring this torment. Each episode is an excruciating journey, a never-ending struggle. Can't you see how difficult it is for me to endure?captain COOK is in the kitchen - Again. he must be only captain in starfleet who is not on the bridge but in the kitchen...cooking cleaning...sweeping the floor cleaning the toilets.
Uhura was one of my favourite characters on the original Trek, ahead of Sulu and Chekov and maybe even Scotty. She had class, elegance, competence and beauty. The character was written to be intelligent and brave and surely a role model for countless people. I suspect Nichelle Nichols was much like that in real life, too.
You're not a hater, Chato!!! I think you're discerning!! Love your perspectives and insights. Please keep it up with the humourous delivery that we can't get enough of.
I think this is a reflection of our "everyone gets a trophy" culture. No one has ever told the current generation of writers "This is rubbish! Do it better.". Consequently, they think everything the do is on a par with Dalton Trumbo.
Sadly, the problem seems to be coordinated. I can't believe so, but it's to destroy our culture. Read the manifesto by the crazy guy in Montana. It was written in the 90s and predicted society right now. Scary.
The Spock episode showed no understanding of Vulcans, or even the mind. Vulcans are ALREADY far more emotional than humans. Changing him human would make him LESS emotional. Changing his body didn't magically change his memories, which is where his knowledge of how to repress emotions is stored.. He still knows how to repress emotions, and has weaker human emotions. So he'd be calmer, not more emotional. Also, as a Vulcan he'd be taking a smell suppressant that only worked proportionately. Their technology is more than good enough to leave him still able to smell as well as a human.
Excellent and substantive analysis. Moving beyond personal reaction to a comparative analysis that identifies key problems in the writing is a rewarding use of time and a real treat to get from your POV and history.
Thank you. You often put into words what i have an awareness of but don't know how to communicate. And I look forward to your videos because you constantly make me laugh. Blessings
Your comments on warm laughs, I think, really hits on the difference we see these days. It really made me think about all the gag's at Joey's expense in Friends. Some of them might have been brutal but it always made you feel for the character not think less of them.
Actually, Joey was just so stupid at times that he deserved what happened to him ie. the one where he lets himself get locked into an entertainment center and his apartment gets robbed.
This is what I said to my wife when SNW came out: The Vulcans are bed-hopping Hollywoodsters with pointy ears. Nurse Chapel is a Hollywoodster who might be bi. Pike is a Hollywoodster enjoying the role of Serious Space Captain. Una is just a Hollywoodster reading her part in a TV show (gotta keep working in this biz). Uhura is the bestest evar Hollywoodster, destined to save the world. I really love your analogy to Friends. Stolen!
It's the psychopathic serial murderer of Star Trek wearing it's victim's flayed skin as a garish costume to trick more victims into lowering their guards so he can shank them in the back with a poisoned shiv more easily.
Making the characters stoic in Trek is WHY the emotional moments work. I'm thinking of the last shot of Balance of Terror with Kirk walking alone down the corridor after the death of the young crewman whose weddding he'd just officiated hours earlier.
Was watching Nova on PBS yesterday. Zachary Quinto narrated their series about the planets. In the Jupiter episode, talking about one its moons, he got to say “VULCANISM.” I wonder if they all had a good laugh when recording the narration.
Did anyone notice in "Picard" Beverly reveals Jean-Luc was Jack's father without a single word- and Picard transitions from realization to action in milliseconds? And Riker's suspicions about paternity are expressed with extreme subtlety. Picard's careful advice to Riker about "avoiding loss" were also cleverly done, as we had no idea he was grieving over a son. Heck, the whole "falling into the singularity" was a brilliant metaphor for our fear of death itself, and the birth of the space jellyfish at the climax screamed what every man at a funeral longs for - resurrection. "Picard Season 3" was something special. I don't know if it can ever be replicated.
@@Eidolon1andOnly you can easily skip seasons 1 and 2 if you ever decide to check it out. I hate Disco, SNW, and seasons 1&2 of Picard. Watching only season 3 feeds the algorithm for when they decide to pull their heads out of their asses.
@@Eidolon1andOnly People don't realize what they did. They finally escaped from the pen and they are eating the grass in the open field then Star TP Season 3 came and they happily went back to the pen. So what will happen next? Star Trek going back to shit and these sheep will complain again how bad it is. I didn't saw Season 3 but I know people tend to lower the bar and accept bad things as masterpiece, see Star Wars Prequels, I don't trust people so I assume the stain from Season 1-2 is still there they just ignore it. It's a no from me too. I wait NuTrek to die.
Well, well, well, look who's gracing us with their impeccable taste in character assessment. According to our brilliant observer here, these four are nothing short of show-ruiners. Move over, talent and captivating storylines; we've got "common street girls" from downtown Chicago stealing the limelight. Clearly, that's the epitome of excellence. And hold onto your aprons, folks, because our captain has been reduced to a mere chef for these illustrious ladies. Who needs a commanding leader when we can witness the culinary adventures of a demoted starship captain? The Michelin Guide will be knocking on their door any day now! Let's meet the protagonists of this award-worthy drama, shall we? Uhura, the epitome of grace and eloquence, has been brilliantly reimagined as a bruiser. Because why settle for smooth interstellar communication when you can have a good old-fashioned brawl? And who can resist Chappel, our androgynous lesbo? Finally, a character that checks all the boxes on the "woke" checklist. Who cares about depth, complexity, or authentic representation when we can just focus on shallow labels, right? Oh, but wait, there's more! We have Ortega, the femlez preacher with her hideous haircut, spreading the gospel of feminism and making fashionistas weep in despair. Who needs stylish locks when you can have a hairdo that screams "I'm a progressive icon"? And let's not forget Lana, the pint-sized security officer with super strength. Because we all know that physical prowess is directly proportional to height. Move aside, logic and believability, we've got a vertically challenged powerhouse in our midst. But oh, how dare these characters be disrespectful and rude for no reason? It's almost as if they're fictional creations with their own personalities and motivations. How dare they defy the pristine image of obedient characters that exist solely for the pleasure of our delicate sensibilities? And as for those pesky femlez messages, we simply can't have any of that. Who needs thought-provoking themes or challenging societal norms when we can bask in the comforting warmth of our ignorance? Oh, the horror of progressive ideas infiltrating our entertainment! So, my oh-so-enlightened friend, there you have it. A searing, biting critique of these characters and the audacity of inclusive storytelling. It's a shame we can't all revel in the glorious stagnation of the past. But fear not, because I'm sure the future holds a lifetime supply of bitter cynicism and unyielding resistance to change. Enjoy!
Yes! I couldn't have put into words why character interactions have felt so cheap of late, but your explanation fits the (mountains of) evidence before us. I wonder what it will take for show runners to figure out that this style of dialogue hurts their shows and undercuts their actors' ability to sell the characters.
The newer Star Treks lack any military decorum. While the original Trek had Kirk and Spock and Bones as friends, there was never any doubt that Kirk was the captain. Watch the original series and you’ll see how often subordinates say, “aye SIR,” and the like. Star Trek was conceived as the Navy in space. No, not the Air Force. The Enterprise is a SHIP after all and Kirk is the Captain. While there was plenty of emotion, it wasn’t all this over-wrought, weepy, plissy-fied crap the newer shows throw up all over. None of these characters would have the bells to make into the 23rd Century version of the Navy Seals. As early as The Next Generation, Trek started to erode the military decorum with its group of officers sitting in a circle and consulting about everything. It’s not a democracy people.
I agree with you 100%. I like your description of a Navy in space. The show is missing that clarification. Captain Pike is a very different character than he was when he was introduced in Star Trek Discovery and the change has not been for the better.
"Friends" in space is spot on. I knew we were in trouble when the episode opened with a bunch of personal logs last week. I defended the first season of SNW, but I just can't make it past the halfway point on the new season's episodes.
The difference is the original series was written by people that had actually lived lives filled with struggle. Many of them had been in a war, some lived during the depression. They had lived life and wrote about it. The newer writers are all college educated kids that lived in the best times in history, few of them struggled on anything harder that figuring out which bathroom to use. They can only write scripts about….eating. To them that is drama and comedy.
The worst part of the Human Spock episode is his mother teaching him to be a liar. This fits in perfectly with Hollywood's culture of machiavellian narcissism, which is full of lies. But it's absolutely not what any good person, and Spock's mother is supposed to be a good person, would glibly identify as being human. And then there are all the things that would not change about Spock, who would have all of his memories. Why does his human mother have to teach him the V'shal Ritual he undoubtedly learned long ago? Why doesn't he know how to suppress pain, the way a Vulcan would? Why doesn't he remember how to talk? And why didn't he tell T'pring? Has he also forgotten how to be an honest mate? All he did was make things worse. Albeit in the way a dishonest Hollywood type would find normal.
I've been looking for the thread that was making everything sterile and vapid. I get caught up a lot in context, that I overlook subtext. Thank you, this will be very helpful.
Want a perfect example of subtext? How about Kirk at the end of "The City on the Edge of Forever" -- Not a word when they step out of the Guardian until "Let's get the hell out of here." Says it all.
I post reviews on Amazon about books I've read. I have posted extremely negative reviews about angsty characters on a regular basis. I find I completely agree with Chato here when it comes to characters talking about their emotions. In my opinion that is painfully boring. I'm not interested. I am actively turned off by too much talk of emotions. Any entertainment will always work far better if the authors remember that the characters need more of a personality than being writer proxies. They need to hold to canon and build solid characters that are interesting because of who they are, not because the writer thinks that they are interesting.
What I have seen with angsty characters is the fact that they are always on. Never even a slight bit of enjoyment or anything else. Not even a dynamic they are angsty in public but can enjoy themselves in private. NOPE always angsty and obnoxious. And when it comes to characters whether original or from another IP, being enjoyable is also important. The character can be a complete bastard, but if you enjoy watching or reading them as complete bastards, they have done their part. And that is always with a little charisma or likeability. Also shows the difference between books and movies. I gather its more difficult for the visual area cause you have to really put it on the actor. In a book you have the person's inner perspective available. Now physical responses, or sensations, or other descriptors are better than just saying what they feel, though occasionally you do need to. Least for my own writing anyways. And you actually give reviews on Amazon? That is difficult to get sometimes. Good on you.
one of your best comments this year (and god knows you had my thumbs up many time so far). You sir, are Spock on... sorry, I mean spot on ;) PS I miss smart and nuanced tv shows...
So right Chato. This last episode, the one about Uhura, really took me down the road, the BAD road to Star Trek Discovery. Where every episode had a Star Fleet officer wearing their emotions on the shirt sleeve. I like SNW, and I hope SOMEONE there is listening to B your videos, thanks again.
As a woman I hate all the unrelenting yak, yak, yakking in movies and t.v. I hate all the oozing, wallowing, emotional sludge vomited into the void. I beg these new writers to please stop trumpeting aloud what should be subtext. You are right: it's booooorrring! Funny how you are a man but you represent my thinking so well. Women Star Trek fans will never stop appreciating objectively good writing (i.e., e.g., consistency, nuance and taste). Any other Hollywood assumption is the true sexism. What a strange new world we live in.
I believe that most writers today don't have the discipline, imagination, exposure to literature and culture with its resulting exposure to life experience necessary to tell a decent story. Best wishes.
Chato, I appreciate the roast, but I am more thankful for your explanation of what's wrong. Someone like me would just say "it sucks, don't how to explain it, it just sucks."
What's sad was that the Pike character was one of the few bits of "Star Trek: Disco-very" (any serious ELO fan will get the reference) that was salvageable. Now he's stuck in something that views more like STD than actual Star Trek. Pity. In the current war between the studios and the writers in Hollywood, I'm starting to root for the robots. At least they can be programmed to care about good writing.
A big difference between classic Trek and new Trek: In all the old shows, the characters were focused on their duty, and the mission. In new Trek it's all, "I, I, I, me, me, me." They're all looking inward at themselves consumed with their own thoughts and feelings.
Writers don’t seem to have any competence whatsoever… or even any experience of being human beings in human society. Maybe they’ve lived such sheltered lives that they don’t know how people act or society functions? Neil Breen writes his own movies as well as directing them and taking the lead role. Breen has most of the villains freely admit how unethical and even evil they are. That shows how incompetent Breen is. Most modern writers have become just as lame, and seem less self-aware than Breen is!
I can't express enough how much I wholeheartedly agree with you. I keep trying and hoping for the best from SNW, and they repeatedly disappoint. I'm genuinely trying to understand why people like this show! Even if I completely disregard canon (as they have), it's just poorly written. I'm currently doing a rewatch of TNG. Most episodes I haven't seen since they originally aired. I'm currently on season 5, and while I may not like all of them, they're at least well written. And respectful to the characters and chain of command. It'd be nice if SNW gave us something strange or new. But at this point, I'll just take something meh over cringe.
I'm rewatching DS9 right now, seeing many episodes again since they first aired, and having a similar experience. There's just something about good writing that makes your brain feel fuller; like you just ate a healthy three-course meal versus cheap fast-food with these new shows.
Finishing the last 12 eps or so of Enterprise. Then I resume where I stopped at TNG. And I'm sure I will do DS9 and Voyager after that. That's where we are now. Watching old stuff cause the last 10 years or so have been total cringe movie and TV wise. Sad.😮😮😮
@@nunyabizness6595 The one where Hoshi is having visions (Vanishing Point) is kind of like the SNW episode with Uhura having visions. But Hoshi acts like a mature adult, doesn't have backstory trauma, and it's all about how people ignore her - which is kind of true. The Enterprise episode is in a continuous 3 act structure not broken up with meaningless diversions and soap opera.
I agree, I checked out of Star Trek, Star Wars and other things. I did watch Picard season 3 which was really good, but I knew that was not going to be the pattern and checked right back out. I don't want to hate watch shows or movies which is why I mostly watch older shows or movies.
Picard season 3 was only good because they dumped the trash they served up in the first 2 seasons . Lets kill Icheb and Seven into a the thing with Raffi , boom/bust lust/hookup/heat of the moment thing, turn Pickard into a robot . It was Cringe , really poor on all levels .
The whole idea of the series is constricting. It's a prequel and they stuck themselves with many characters whose arcs are already known--and the ship's arc is also known. This precludes a lot of plots. Spock, Pike, Uhura, and Chapel will survive. So will frequent guest star Kirk (unless you put him in an alternate timeline). So will the Enterprise. If I were a good writer it would not be a series that I'd want to work on.
I would probably agree with your assessment if I ever watched a single episode of SNW. I suffered thru 3 seasons of STD and the first season of Picard and then finally gave up. As a classic Trek fan I really wanted it to be good. I kept hoping it would get better but it just kept getting so much worse! I look back now and don't know how I managed to hang in there as long as I did. So I don't blame you one bit for giving up on SNW.
Skip the second Picard and watch the 3rd. It's edgy movie Trek but it is good, apart from the lighting problems that plagued Discovery and the complete disregard for distance and travel time.
I used to love hearing my favourite youtube channels tearing into awful movies and series. But since it has become the norm for Hollywood to churn out shite like a recycling centre in full reverse, where you put in good stuff and it turns it into rubbish; I think I'd like to suggest they use their talents to take on their own trek-like mission; to explore strange new studios; to seek out new movies and new series; to boldly show what no man has shown before! ❤
Might as well be titled "Why most movies and TV shows suck more now." I think Hollywood's going to have a huge problem not long from now, Hollywood's audience is not just a candle burning at both ends, the entire candle is on fire . First there's a whole generation coming up, kids that are around 14 and younger that just do not watch movies and TV shows at all, they'll soon be adults that don't watch movies and shows at all, preferring TH-cam and social media. Older folks in the 50s+ have already walked away from movies and new shows, preferring to watch old reruns instead. Apathy is also growing at an alarming rate for movies and shows for everyone in between these age ranges, people in my age range of late 30s early 40s don't really go theaters and prefer to just stream them later and are doing so less and less. Leaving people in their late teens to late 20s to carry all of Hollywood, not really the biggest movie goers and show watchers to begin with.
In college, I had a philosophy professor who used Vulcans as an example of stoicism in one of his lectures. "Vulcans don't have emotions," he said. "That's not entirely true," I said. "They do have emotions. They train all their lives to suppress them." "Oh!" he said. "So, actually, they're psychotic. That makes more sense." I always felt the so-called Vulcan/Human "struggle" that Spock dealt with was introduced from a poor understanding of psychology. After TOS, emotional Vulcans were introduced (in Enterprise and "The Final Frontier"), so the psychosis aspect has merit. Spock's not fighting his genetic heritage. He's struggling between two cultures.
Spock was the original star. Women particularly liked the character. That is why he must be destroyed. Can’t have women liking calm, rational men with self control.
For me, it's the writers failing to understand that the genre is military science fiction. The star ship the characters are serving on is a military vessel, and the bridge crew has been hand-picked by the captain. The amount of straight-up insubordination I've seen in this show is remarkable. That kind of behavior would have been corrected in Starfleet Academy. If it happens once, you're reprimanded on the spot, and you receive a good dressing-down in private. The second time, you're relieved of duty. Third time, you're in the brig, and likely on the next shuttle home. You have to remember that Gene Roddenberry was a combat veteran, and he had a very focused vision of military customs and courtesies (from experience). When you fail to follow the conventions of the genre and established canon of the story, you are remiss in your duties as a writer.
Subtlety in writing is really missing these days. Everything is getting dumbed down, from website appearance, through Windows interface, to, unsurprisingly TV show/movie scripts. The user or the viewer can't be allowed to think anymore because everything is spelled out. Chato, I can't remember if you've done an episode on the dumbing down of the movie writing, but if haven't - you should. It'd be interesting to have your take on it.
Diminishing returns. After a certain period of "subverting expectations", one must run into a complete lack of anything worth saying. They only place left to go is _Star Trek Meets Abbot & Costello..._
I am getting the distinct impression that all of the usual suspects will soon run out of properties to talk about because all the deconstructioning called programming will be beyond watching and talking about as the joke that writes itself won't have any insight to gleen. I think it will be gratifying to watch and experience us all living in the past and exploring when stories were told and ideas were shared with warmth and heart and genuine skill. the mutual experiences can be born again as we look in each others eyes and know we have communal beauty that leaves a theatre as we go on in our day to day. I think we all know it is time.
Spock was cool in the past because the 60s was turmoil and emotional and he was a breath of fresh air of logic, reason, stoicism and calm. These writers couldn't write a logical person. That one scene in TOS where Spock explains to Tralane about how he abhors power used in an unproductive manner is classic. Now spock is just the clueless special needs kid.
Once upon a time, being the IP holder gave absolute power over a franchise. That day is done. If the IP holder insists on not bringing out new content or bringing out garbage content, we can now make our own. I invite all my fellow Trekkers to enjoy another unauthorized novel completely free. Just google Star Trek Lost Destiny Race.
This is some fantastic commentary on writing and subtext. I think you've explained why I never enjoyed a single moment of ST: Discovery (watched three seasons) and hated the dialogue. And your point at 6:40 about "no going back" when speaking of what is happening to Spock is something I fear greatly. And the lesson will *not* be learned because, as you said, people thought this episode was funny. I thought it was stupid and cringe and intolerable. As much as I disagreed with your analysis of SNW 2:2, I wholeheartedly endorse your comments here. I hope things get better, but like you say, there may be no going back.
Seeing that picture of Kirk, Spock and Bones just made me so sad for what we just dont have any more. Thankfully all the actual Trek still exists out there in streaming land. Its just odd how the new stuff is making the Abrams movies look like masterpeices. The only thing for it is the palette cleanser of Watching Wrath of Khan. From Hells heart i spit at thee new Trek writers....
spot on.....season 1 did had promise...season 2 took that promise, bashed it in the head, gave it an uppercut and then a gut punch....season 2 eps 3, 4, 5 and 6 are really bad why do i watch? so you don't have too LIKED, STARRED, BELLED AND FOLLOWING
The helmsman's cringe dialogue, the nostalgia baiting, character destruction and the writing in general is just plain garbage. What a waste of a good cast.
Watching Season 2 is like they listened to Nerdrotic when he said modern Hollywood loves to deconstruct our heroes. Pike is the butt of the joke by an insubordinate crew. Spock is the source of story that seems to counter what happens in TOS and his development. And Kirk, well they just love killing him, I wonder why? Wesley's acting reminds me of Jim Carrey when they were doing Star Trek spoofs on In Living Color. They're applauding the views of 400,000 people, compared to the millions who saw it on TV and the 5 million who tried to stop the cancellation of Enterprise. These writers just imitate than understand the soul of a series.
I was a Trek-Fan until Discovery started. I stopped watching after its third painful season. Then I only watched Picard season 3. My heart is still crying of what the franchise has become and when I look to the left and right I see what happened to Star Wars, Dr. Who, Indiana Jones, Lord Of The Rings, The Witcher, Willow, Disney in general, Wheel Of Time, Matrix,..... I just can't take it any more.
I can't agree with you more. A brilliant analysis not only of the state of Star Trek but of modern writing (if you can call it that) of Television and movies. Subtext is completely unknown to modern audiences. Especially in an era where the motto is "tell it don't show."
I'm so fascinated and grateful that Paramount finally managed to produce a very, very good Star Trek episodes again. They didn't produce bad seasons with Discovery, but unfortunately they never completely met my taste. Picard seasons 1 and 2 were also very nice for me as a Next Generation fan, but they were never on the level of the old series. BUT as of Picard season 3 and with Strange New Worlds seasons 1 and 2, they have done the stroke of genius...the miracle...!! Star Trek is finally what it was for decades. Finally the passion and dedication to the stories, the atmosphere and the style is back! The only thing I would criticize is that not enough time is taken to develop the characters in many (more) episodes. 10 episodes per season are not enough to present a harmonious character development. The actors do their best, you can tell! They hardly have not a chance in the short time. Unfortunately, the high speed caused by the few following makes it seem very rushed! BUT whoever is responsible for this at Paramount and the studios involved... keep those people really tight and in your ranks. Pay them good money. IT IS WORTH LIKE GOLD! Star Trek is back! And i love it!!
All seasons of Discovery were bad. It was an abomination. Picard was distasteful (later seasons won't change that for me - I'm done with it). SNW is the only modern Trek show, which at least pretends to follow classical shows in their spirit. It's still mediocre, especially when it comes to writing, but I think we should give it a chance. For my taste, it's the only modern "Trek" which has a chance to become a Trek. I agree with you - it's the first time since Voyager I'm able to watch ST series and not feeling I'm going to vomit. On the contrary, it's ok. and occasionally I'm having a really good time. A few years ago I wouldn't even believe it would be possible in "modern" times.
![Warhammer 40k: Space Marine 2 | เพื่อจักรพรรดิ ! [ตอนเดียวจบ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4M0ckYMA4-U/mqdefault.jpg)
Rickman’s performance in Galaxy Quest WAS a tour de force. Thanks for that reminder of a movie that doesn’t suck.
By Grabthar's Hammer, by the sons of Warvan you shall be avenged.
Galaxy Quest sucked ass. Wasted an awesome cast on a bad Star Trek ripoff.
@@DeMan59 Sorry you have bad taste.
I agree with your assessment of SNW. As a career military i would add that i dispise the friendly and/subservient relationships between superior officers and subordinates; the latest episode was the worst when Pike asks Uhura what to do. Although friends, Spock and McCoy knew who was in charge. Even when McCoy would address Kirk as Jim it was never used at the expense of Kirk's authority.
There's a protocol to this. A superior asks for ADVICE, not what to do. When a superior is deferring to a subordinate's speciality, he asks "what do you suggest" and then says "You heard the man!"
Starfleet is the military branch of the Federation, but that seems impossible for Nutrek to understand.
Also agree after 20 years in the military. Yearn for some good writing and realistic relationships. In the sixties so many writers had served during WW2 and it showed. Now all these college educated women writers have NO real world context to rely on...other than being pampered.
Captains should never be on away teams.
I'm not career military but I was in the military and they would never blow up a station that is vital to defend themselves against a new enemy, the gorn, because an ensign his hearing voices. Pike has absolutely no command presence in Strange New Worlds. He did in Discovery and that is one of the many things that disappoint me about Strange new worlds. I know Anson Mount is a very capable actor. If you have ever seen "Hell on Wheels" you can see he's capable of doing much more than he does on Strand New World.
First of all, thank you for your service. Things you mention bother me too though I never served in the military. In the last episode the one slight defense is that Kirk gave Uhura a strong "reminder" type look when she was took casual in a meeting himself and the fleet captain (Pike). But, then he turned very, very casual with her later.
You don't write your characters to fit the script, you write your script to fit the characters. Characters are more important to viewers than any other aspect of your show, especially when they're well-known characters. In TV, this has been going on for decades, and writers seem shocked when people complain. But it's always a sign that the quality of the show is going downhill.
That first sentence says it all.
Depends. For an original work it can be the inverse. If you come up with a heist plot first you create characters to fill the roles for it.
But since this is largely about pre existing characters and building plots around them, then you're 100 percent on target.
@@dbsommers1 I believe the first sentence applies to characters who have already been well established.
Pretty much every story is just a re-telling of everything thats already been said before. Characters is what carries those stories.
Conversely, a terrible character can ruin an original story.
The lack of humanism in Star Trak is the real deal killer for me.
Thats the only reason I got into it in 2015. I loved that it was the most mature and responsible forward thinking series with only tiny amounts of pretension. It seemed impossible that such a wholesome sincere series existed. All that died in 2009...
Now its a higher production and budget CW show in space......Few things have killed my hope for humanity like the slow death of star trek.
@@httohot wow a new Star Trek fan that doesn't love all the trite tripe they push out since 2009... I somehow feel this is a rarity, but hard to say.
To me, the lack of actual human intelligence and maturity is the bigger deal breaker. There is just nothing of any intellectual value in there, it's all purely superficial and uninspired junk entertainment without any deeper meaning or value. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence quite frankly. A show made by uncaring incompetents for consumption by mindless imbeciles.
Like the discovery ep where they persued trust and peace with the klingons over genocide? or the SNW ep where they met an alien race who wanted compassion and someone to see their point of view? or the ep that debated if a single childs suffering is a price to pay for a life of paradise for all? or the LD ep that argues that AI lacked the hamnising element neccisary for space travel?
@@andrewstephen2359 STD's primary philosophy is nihilism. And I haven't bothered watching any SNW, given Kurtzman's track record. And given the examples you provided, I don't think you understand what humanism is. STD has space jesus, which is antithetical to humanism.
The writers are also telling the world how bitter they are. They can't laugh with someone. They can only laugh at them.
Bad writing and incompetence is what happens when you hire on the basis of skin color, politics and pseudo-genders rather than, gasp, ability and experience.
Id disagree, this is what the studios want them to write. Why I don't blame the writers, they suck, but I don't blame them. It's bad management wanting what this shit writing is. Has nothing to do with hiring these writers. If you hire a (diversity hire) and they suck at their job and you still keep them. That's on you not the fact they were a diversity hire because they could have been the good hire even with those limitations.
Never blame the worker for corporations decisions. Even if you dislike them. That's what's wrong with world today. We blame the pawn for the kings mistake.
@@googleifyouseekayu Where exactly did the original poster blame someone? He made an accurate statement. You probably mean well yet you're putting up a strawman nonetheless.
So your problem is with minorities?
I think I’ve identified your real problem.
Are you talking about Hollywood or Washington?
As a screenwriter myself, I have learned SOOOO much from watching your videos. I will continue to be a devoted follower.
Paul is a true educator
@@quatore-5886 correct... he doesn't just pontificate his opinion... he explains the logic behind his statements.....and I appreciate that.
It's a little far and few between his rants about wokism. But he is spot on here about subtext.
The funny thing is I've heard much of this advice not 5 years ago at good writing classes in some post secondary schools. I'm absolutely astonished how fast and deep woke has been utterly erasing not just competency but inserting outright malice.
I can't find any writing classes that teach like this anymore. And based on the need they should be ALL over.
The march through the institutions is long and slow... and then the trap shuts.
I used to read lots of books with female main characters written by writers living any random place..
But I ran into way to many woke writers that made me start to hate books.. One series I read suddenly added a new character called "Trump" that was an Evil monster..
This character did nothing in the story but each chapter the other characters would just talk about why they hate him for things like Trump having small hands etc...
Another writer posted that he could not continue his series becsue Trump the president was in power which stopped him writing... Another complained that he could not write becsue he lived in a Red Area with lots of evil Red Voters...
One series I loved with two gay secondary characters already suddenly had another characters announce they were Trans all the time but didn't tell anyone and the sidekick of the MC suddenly dumped their girlfriend and became gay just becsue..
All these writers and others like them had things in common which changed how I bought books..
They mostly lived in certain places like California, Origon, NY, Seattle etc... And many wrote with female characters...
So now I look into the writers etc.. Before even trying a book which probably screws a lot of decent writers but I can't trust writers these days...
Two writers wrote books were they suddenly changed the MC Gay etc.. In the last part of the book just to own the straight people, they even posted about it after the book was sold for a while how they did it so the people who hated gay romance could not longer return the books..
One made 90% of all male characters gay suddenly...
To many writers seem to be insane..
Now at this moment I am reading lots of Korean, Japanese novels as their writers don't do this crap and leave the Woke out except for special stories they promote for special readers...
@@zakofrx Reading classics myself. H Beam Piper, Isaac Asimov, E.E. 'Doc' Smith
You nailed the tonal shift between the original series and SNW versions of Spock and how humor was handled. It was loving jabs not pratfall humor at the character’s expense.
And yes, the rules set in place by Roddenberry were thrown out the window a long time ago. Yeah he had some wonky ideas for those us more steeped in behind the scenes Trek. But, his many of his rules forced the writers to come up with creative inventive ways to create drama. Which up until 2005 were for the most part were carried forth by the Berman era.
SNW isn’t written by fully functional adults with genuine life experiences. It’s written by hacks with perceived life experiences.
It's not just Star Trek largely being written by adult children, raised in an uneventful bubble by pampering helicopter parents, who paid for the pieces of paper stating they're writers. It's the Hollywood norm now.
Subtlety is a lost art. It used to be that a good actor could convey what they were thinking just by the look on their faces. You could get a whole paragraph worth of information just from one look.. As you said, figuring out with what "that look" means makes the whole thing fun, and in my opinion makes it much more personal.
I miss Steve McQueen..
The problem is, is that people have to be paying attention to catch such things. Entertainment to day is largely throw away space fillers. We live in an ADD world where no-one has the time for subtleties.
Well said in the lack of acting skills.
@@JohnnyStroud Those people exist and might even be in this cast, it's just not the focus of the studio so why bother?
I agree. And sometimes an actor won't even need facial expressions to get things across. Take Edward Norton in Crusade: he was wearing an iron mask all the time, and yet he was far more expressive than Orlando Bloom could ever hope to be.
TOS was written in such a way that character development could take place without taking huge amounts of screen timt. Real Uhura and real Sulu are examples of well fleshed out deeply defined characters despite limited screen time and not a lot of backstory
They live on the Federation flag ship, should have it easy thanks to technology but the stakes are life and death - and they have important positions in the most competitive environment humanity has faced. And they're good at it. How much motivation and back story do I need to have my time wasted on? What part needs explaining? What audience do they think they're targeting? Anyway - yeah. You're absolutely correct.
I miss TOS Sulu and Uhura so much! Their best scenes were with each other in The Naked Time and Mirror, Mirror.
You're a braver man than I am if you bothered watching it in the first place. Regrettably, the safe bet has been to ignore what Hollywood has placed before us for the past decade or so.
If you ask for a pepperoni pizza and I hand you a piece of broccoli on toast, I shouldn't expect to be praised. The public doesn't care about the strike in Hollywood because they do less damage to the franchises we enjoy if they aren't working.
Sex, the final frontier
These are the voyages of the Sexship Sexlez
Its five year scissoring
To explore strange new quips
To seek out new pronouns
And new gender bending
To boldly go where no genderLez has gone before.
This guy! Great insight and nailed it on the nose!
Yeah, it's not a piece of broccoli on that toast - it smells much worse. And they expect you to be grateful that it has sprinkles on it. May the strike go on long enough for all the wokies to starve to death.
@@jamesdalton2014 More like $h!t on a shingle. I had high hopes but they just had to ruin it. So much lost potential.
@@esecallum Space, the final woke-tier
There are the voyages of the wokeship Wokerprise
Its woke mission
To explore Strange Woke Worlds
To seek out new retcons
and woke snivilizations
To wokely go where no they/them has gone before!
I managed to get half way through the last episode and decided I'd had enough.
It was the most cringeworthy thing I've ever seen. The guy playing Spock can't act for shit, and the way they're treating his character borders on the sacrilegious.
This *ain't* Star Trek.
🙄
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Actually in that episode, everyone was acting horribly. An we know most of them (except the Uhura character) can act. So I blame the director. The acting through out that episode was low B movie level. I do agree otherwise the writing is sacrilegious and seems to be more character assassination except for female characters. The female characters are just poorly done period.
No one could top Nimoy. It's an impossible task. Quinto had a slight resemblance to Nimoy but he couldn't capture the essence of the character. Nimoy created that.😮😮😮
@@nunyabizness6595Amen
@@nunyabizness6595
When you know just how animated Leonard Nimoy was in real life, then you can appreciate just how much 'acting' it takes for him to play a totally deadpan character.
Same thing applied to Christopher Judge and his portrayal of Teal'c in Stargate:SG1.
When The Rock is in a movie, he's just playing The Rock- in *everything,* and playing yourself requires very little 'acting', but when you're playing a character that's the antithesis of your own, *that's* when you show your *true* acting chops...
🙂
🍄
@@dennismoore1116
Quick word of advice mate-
*never* start a sentence with "actually", as it makes you come across as either-
A) an arrogant, condescending twat, or
B) a condescending, arrogant twat.
Neither of them are a good look, and I know it's not the one you were trying to portray.
I gotta disagree with you though on one point- you said that "most of them (apart from the Uhura character) can act" and I'd love to know what evidence you're basing that claim on, because it sure as shit ain't come from ST:SNW!
They're *ALL* diabolical- with the possible exception of Anson Mount and Rebecca Romjin, as neither (despite both of them being the 'stars' of the show) of them have been onscreen long enough to be able to tell!
So add the writers to the list of guilty parties for this shitshow too...
😉
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Spock is written like Sheldon from Big Bang. The "nerd" crowd that watched Big Bang Theory (that was really about mocking nerd culture) seem to love this type of episode because Star Trek is a meme to them, it's all "meta".
exactly this.
Exactly. A "nerd show" written by jocks that made fun of nerds.
@@200wattstudio8 Lets not give the writers credit for being jocks, that implies at least some level of athletic prowess, but they certainly were not nerds.
I think of Big Bang Theory as "nerdface". Jokes about nerds, not for them.
@@NogardCodesmith I agree
No they weren’t nerds or jocks. They were the types of people who took on other people’s personalities because they didn’t have one themselves. The second “nerd culture” is fully tapped out these people will leave its dead husk and go to the next thing.
Agreed. I can't watch this any more. The storylines don't seem at all like science fiction, or social commentary or philosophical reflection which were hallmarks of earlier Star Treks. It's more like a badly-written soap opera. Pike and Spock have been completely emasculated: Pike rarely appears on the bridge and seems to spend most of his time cooking. Spock moons around over his various love interests like an teenager, but I've yet to see him do any science. M'Benga and Christine Chapel go around beating up people. Annoying, rude junior officers are constantly second-guessing everyone and opining at length about their personal issues. Where, actually, are the Strange New Worlds we're supposed to be exploring? What new life have we discovered? Why aren't we boldly going anywhere? Whither, Star Trek?
THIS. This comment sums it up beautifully. The Spock Chapel "romance/hookup" is completely Harlequin romance for the idiot masses. While I might agree that Chapel was a disturbing character in TOS, she's positively awful in SNW. She's a sexual predator to my mind - constantly with the innuendo at Spock creating what is a toxic workplace for him (although he's too dumb in SNW to realize it), dumping men, unable to commit, cannot respect boundaries with a man she can never have and is already taken, is a liar to boot. Is this the emancipated, equal woman that Hollywood wants for the future cuz most of us women do not want this kind of equality. And Uhura does all the science on the ship - for Spock and everyone else. Despite the fact that she is a linguistic expert, not an engineer nor familiar with the transporter. What a disappointment SNW has been. And such great casting too.
Spock’s romance with Chapel was annoying in TOS and even more annoying in SNW. One of the reasons Spock seems so off to me in SNW is he’s constantly mooning over her. I’d much rather watch him bicker with McCoy than chase after either Chapel or T’Pring. Chapel and M’Benga had more chemistry in The Broken Circle and Under the Cloak of War than she and Spock had in all their episodes together.
I've had opportunity (OK, I was coerced) to watch some fan fiction Star Trek, with mostly overweight uberfans of the original series, the acting is abysmal, writing is worse, no comprehension of subtext, they're terrible, but affectionate in their efforts, but even they get the inter relational dynamics better than these slick productions, honestly I can't watch them, but I WON'T watch Discovery, SNW or Picard
I am more than frustrated at this show. The writers have done a tremendous disservice to these characters , actors, and franchise. I appreciate that you're sharing how a lot of people feel. Watching other people that I respect gush over this show and feeling like we are watching two different shows is mind-numbing, and it's getting progressively worse.
I actually liked parts of season 1, but there is nothing I have liked so far about season 2.
But, I will tune in week after week, hoping it will get better because I love the franchise, and one can always hope.
You put into words things that I've been feeling but just didn't know how to say. I too watch every week hoping it will get better but it never does.
Amazon Wheel Of Time destroyed those feelings of maybe it will get better. I am the customer, and I expect to be served what I am paying for.
I kind of like the A story on some of the episodes. But they fill it with it with so much cringe. Like 'you look like a hippy' or 'gas station' or just denigrating the character of Spock every chance they get. Now we are to believe that Jim and George are jealous of each other and have daddy issues? What a disgrace.
Well said, Chato. You've summed up why almost all of our favorite franchises are now garbage. The ironic thing about the writer's strike is that there's almost nothing that I'm looking forward to, so I really don't care. Now that TH-cam Premium is providing a lot of old movies I've been enjoying quality stuff the likes of which you can't get any more. I was unfamiliar with "The Sunshine Boys", which you mentioned recently, and I saw it about a month ago and was really impressed at how good and funny it was. I then learned that George Burns won an Oscar for it after not even being in a movie for the better part of 30 years.
Dear god I hope at least SOME Hollywood writers are subscribers to your channel. You basically just gave a fantastic, free lesson that frankly is worth its weight in gold to those writers who pay attention and learn.
True about the jabs at Spock in TOS, but Spock was always able to send the jab right back at Bones as well. If NuSpock threw a barb back at one of the new crew, I'm sure there'd be internet outrage.
Also a note about the scene where the female bridge crew one-up the Starfleet IT crew. One of them says they've customized their console to be more efficient. It may be more efficient for her, but having standardized settings makes sense especially in a combat situation. If said bridge officer is injured, someone else can quickly take control of their station. You don't want someone jumping in the seat and saying "WTF (they'd actually probably say it) is this??"
NuTrek is so dumb.
Yep, I remember "Why you green-blooded, pointy eared..."
"Thank you for the compliment Doctor."
As you say. What I noticed in the last few episodes of Picard is they started saying the situational subtext out loud. Very odd.
Completely on point and some of the critical reasoning I couldn't watch STD for more than one season.
I just cant stand how rude everyone is especially Uhura. Its a slap in the face to how classy and likeable the original Uhura was
. Uhura in name only. The actual Uhura was an inspiration to all us females back in the day. See "Who Mourns for Adonais"
You just don't get it! I'm forced to watch this because it's called Star Trek, and I had this tiny glimmer of hope that it would improve, but it never does! It's like torture, pure agony. Watching it feels like I'm willingly inflicting pain on myself, constantly sacrificing my own happiness. It's like my own personal purgatory, an eternal sentence of enduring this torment. Each episode is an excruciating journey, a never-ending struggle. Can't you see how difficult it is for me to endure?captain COOK is in the kitchen - Again. he must be only captain in starfleet who is not on the bridge but in the kitchen...cooking cleaning...sweeping the floor cleaning the toilets.
Uhura was one of my favourite characters on the original Trek, ahead of Sulu and Chekov and maybe even Scotty. She had class, elegance, competence and beauty. The character was written to be intelligent and brave and surely a role model for countless people. I suspect Nichelle Nichols was much like that in real life, too.
@@MarcCoteMusic yes this bald bruiser is just painful to look at...and listen to.
not to mention this uhura is ugly.
You're not a hater, Chato!!! I think you're discerning!! Love your perspectives and insights. Please keep it up with the humourous delivery that we can't get enough of.
"That's what good writers do" I think we found the crux of the issue right there.
I think this is a reflection of our "everyone gets a trophy" culture. No one has ever told the current generation of writers "This is rubbish! Do it better.". Consequently, they think everything the do is on a par with Dalton Trumbo.
Johnny got his gun... and went off to shoot some wokies!
Sadly, the problem seems to be coordinated. I can't believe so, but it's to destroy our culture. Read the manifesto by the crazy guy in Montana. It was written in the 90s and predicted society right now. Scary.
The Spock episode showed no understanding of Vulcans, or even the mind.
Vulcans are ALREADY far more emotional than humans.
Changing him human would make him LESS emotional.
Changing his body didn't magically change his memories,
which is where his knowledge of how to repress emotions is stored..
He still knows how to repress emotions, and has weaker human emotions.
So he'd be calmer, not more emotional.
Also, as a Vulcan he'd be taking a smell suppressant that only worked proportionately.
Their technology is more than good enough to leave him still able to smell as well as a human.
Excellent and substantive analysis. Moving beyond personal reaction to a comparative analysis that identifies key problems in the writing is a rewarding use of time and a real treat to get from your POV and history.
Thank you. You often put into words what i have an awareness of but don't know how to communicate. And I look forward to your videos because you constantly make me laugh. Blessings
Also, I just noticed how almost every episode of this season is always focused on the female characters and just how amazing they are.
Your comments on warm laughs, I think, really hits on the difference we see these days. It really made me think about all the gag's at Joey's expense in Friends. Some of them might have been brutal but it always made you feel for the character not think less of them.
Actually, Joey was just so stupid at times that he deserved what happened to him ie. the one where he lets himself get locked into an entertainment center and his apartment gets robbed.
Thanks for the insight. I have a hard time articulating to my friends why I don't like the new shows and you have helped clarify it for me.
This is what I said to my wife when SNW came out:
The Vulcans are bed-hopping Hollywoodsters with pointy ears. Nurse Chapel is a Hollywoodster who might be bi. Pike is a Hollywoodster enjoying the role of Serious Space Captain. Una is just a Hollywoodster reading her part in a TV show (gotta keep working in this biz). Uhura is the bestest evar Hollywoodster, destined to save the world.
I really love your analogy to Friends. Stolen!
“Strange New Worlds is not Star Trek.” Well said, Paul, well said.
It's the psychopathic serial murderer of Star Trek wearing it's victim's flayed skin as a garish costume to trick more victims into lowering their guards so he can shank them in the back with a poisoned shiv more easily.
I feel the same way about Discovery too
Making the characters stoic in Trek is WHY the emotional moments work. I'm thinking of the last shot of Balance of Terror with Kirk walking alone down the corridor after the death of the young crewman whose weddding he'd just officiated hours earlier.
Stoicism is definitely in short media supply these days!
"Making the characters stoic in Trek is WHY the emotional moments work." Great, insightful comment, Jim.
Was watching Nova on PBS yesterday. Zachary Quinto narrated their series about the planets. In the Jupiter episode, talking about one its moons, he got to say “VULCANISM.” I wonder if they all had a good laugh when recording the narration.
Did anyone notice in "Picard" Beverly reveals Jean-Luc was Jack's father without a single word- and Picard transitions from realization to action in milliseconds? And Riker's suspicions about paternity are expressed with extreme subtlety.
Picard's careful advice to Riker about "avoiding loss" were also cleverly done, as we had no idea he was grieving over a son. Heck, the whole "falling into the singularity" was a brilliant metaphor for our fear of death itself, and the birth of the space jellyfish at the climax screamed what every man at a funeral longs for - resurrection.
"Picard Season 3" was something special. I don't know if it can ever be replicated.
Man they need to go ahead and just say the Wesley is his biological son and call it a day.
@@Eidolon1andOnly you can easily skip seasons 1 and 2 if you ever decide to check it out. I hate Disco, SNW, and seasons 1&2 of Picard. Watching only season 3 feeds the algorithm for when they decide to pull their heads out of their asses.
@@Eidolon1andOnly People don't realize what they did. They finally escaped from the pen and they are eating the grass in the open field then Star TP Season 3 came and they happily went back to the pen.
So what will happen next? Star Trek going back to shit and these sheep will complain again how bad it is.
I didn't saw Season 3 but I know people tend to lower the bar and accept bad things as masterpiece, see Star Wars Prequels, I don't trust people so I assume the stain from Season 1-2 is still there they just ignore it.
It's a no from me too. I wait NuTrek to die.
Well, well, well, look who's gracing us with their impeccable taste in character assessment. According to our brilliant observer here, these four are nothing short of show-ruiners. Move over, talent and captivating storylines; we've got "common street girls" from downtown Chicago stealing the limelight. Clearly, that's the epitome of excellence.
And hold onto your aprons, folks, because our captain has been reduced to a mere chef for these illustrious ladies. Who needs a commanding leader when we can witness the culinary adventures of a demoted starship captain? The Michelin Guide will be knocking on their door any day now!
Let's meet the protagonists of this award-worthy drama, shall we? Uhura, the epitome of grace and eloquence, has been brilliantly reimagined as a bruiser. Because why settle for smooth interstellar communication when you can have a good old-fashioned brawl?
And who can resist Chappel, our androgynous lesbo? Finally, a character that checks all the boxes on the "woke" checklist. Who cares about depth, complexity, or authentic representation when we can just focus on shallow labels, right?
Oh, but wait, there's more! We have Ortega, the femlez preacher with her hideous haircut, spreading the gospel of feminism and making fashionistas weep in despair. Who needs stylish locks when you can have a hairdo that screams "I'm a progressive icon"?
And let's not forget Lana, the pint-sized security officer with super strength. Because we all know that physical prowess is directly proportional to height. Move aside, logic and believability, we've got a vertically challenged powerhouse in our midst.
But oh, how dare these characters be disrespectful and rude for no reason? It's almost as if they're fictional creations with their own personalities and motivations. How dare they defy the pristine image of obedient characters that exist solely for the pleasure of our delicate sensibilities?
And as for those pesky femlez messages, we simply can't have any of that. Who needs thought-provoking themes or challenging societal norms when we can bask in the comforting warmth of our ignorance? Oh, the horror of progressive ideas infiltrating our entertainment!
So, my oh-so-enlightened friend, there you have it. A searing, biting critique of these characters and the audacity of inclusive storytelling. It's a shame we can't all revel in the glorious stagnation of the past. But fear not, because I'm sure the future holds a lifetime supply of bitter cynicism and unyielding resistance to change. Enjoy!
Not everyone agrees. I thought Picard season 3 was considerably worse than Discovery. They ruined Picard and inserted girl bosses. Yet. Again.
It sucks MORE!? Thanks, Chato. I can’t watch it any less than I already do, but it’s reassuring to know that I obviously made the right decision.
Yes! I couldn't have put into words why character interactions have felt so cheap of late, but your explanation fits the (mountains of) evidence before us. I wonder what it will take for show runners to figure out that this style of dialogue hurts their shows and undercuts their actors' ability to sell the characters.
The newer Star Treks lack any military decorum. While the original Trek had Kirk and Spock and Bones as friends, there was never any doubt that Kirk was the captain. Watch the original series and you’ll see how often subordinates say, “aye SIR,” and the like. Star Trek was conceived as the Navy in space. No, not the Air Force. The Enterprise is a SHIP after all and Kirk is the Captain. While there was plenty of emotion, it wasn’t all this over-wrought, weepy, plissy-fied crap the newer shows throw up all over. None of these characters would have the bells to make into the 23rd Century version of the Navy Seals. As early as The Next Generation, Trek started to erode the military decorum with its group of officers sitting in a circle and consulting about everything. It’s not a democracy people.
I agree with you 100%. I like your description of a Navy in space. The show is missing that clarification. Captain Pike is a very different character than he was when he was introduced in Star Trek Discovery and the change has not been for the better.
"Friends" in space is spot on. I knew we were in trouble when the episode opened with a bunch of personal logs last week. I defended the first season of SNW, but I just can't make it past the halfway point on the new season's episodes.
Alan Rickman was a genius.
My 8 yo son was listening to you and said to me, 'they should show, not tell.'
Wiser beyond his years!
The difference is the original series was written by people that had actually lived lives filled with struggle. Many of them had been in a war, some lived during the depression. They had lived life and wrote about it. The newer writers are all college educated kids that lived in the best times in history, few of them struggled on anything harder that figuring out which bathroom to use. They can only write scripts about….eating. To them that is drama and comedy.
The worst part of the Human Spock episode is his mother teaching him to be a liar.
This fits in perfectly with Hollywood's culture of machiavellian narcissism, which is full of lies.
But it's absolutely not what any good person, and Spock's mother is supposed to be a good person, would glibly identify as being human.
And then there are all the things that would not change about Spock, who would have all of his memories.
Why does his human mother have to teach him the V'shal Ritual he undoubtedly learned long ago?
Why doesn't he know how to suppress pain, the way a Vulcan would?
Why doesn't he remember how to talk?
And why didn't he tell T'pring?
Has he also forgotten how to be an honest mate?
All he did was make things worse.
Albeit in the way a dishonest Hollywood type would find normal.
I've been looking for the thread that was making everything sterile and vapid. I get caught up a lot in context, that I overlook subtext. Thank you, this will be very helpful.
Garth Marenghi - 'I know writers who use subtext, and they're all cowards.'
But seriously now, I love what you've said here. Bravo!
I was about to post this comment.
Hah! Great old comedy. May be time for a re-watch.
Want a perfect example of subtext? How about Kirk at the end of "The City on the Edge of Forever" -- Not a word when they step out of the Guardian until "Let's get the hell out of here." Says it all.
I post reviews on Amazon about books I've read. I have posted extremely negative reviews about angsty characters on a regular basis. I find I completely agree with Chato here when it comes to characters talking about their emotions. In my opinion that is painfully boring. I'm not interested. I am actively turned off by too much talk of emotions.
Any entertainment will always work far better if the authors remember that the characters need more of a personality than being writer proxies. They need to hold to canon and build solid characters that are interesting because of who they are, not because the writer thinks that they are interesting.
What I have seen with angsty characters is the fact that they are always on. Never even a slight bit of enjoyment or anything else. Not even a dynamic they are angsty in public but can enjoy themselves in private. NOPE always angsty and obnoxious.
And when it comes to characters whether original or from another IP, being enjoyable is also important. The character can be a complete bastard, but if you enjoy watching or reading them as complete bastards, they have done their part. And that is always with a little charisma or likeability.
Also shows the difference between books and movies. I gather its more difficult for the visual area cause you have to really put it on the actor. In a book you have the person's inner perspective available. Now physical responses, or sensations, or other descriptors are better than just saying what they feel, though occasionally you do need to. Least for my own writing anyways.
And you actually give reviews on Amazon? That is difficult to get sometimes. Good on you.
one of your best comments this year
(and god knows you had my thumbs up many time so far).
You sir, are Spock on... sorry, I mean spot on ;)
PS I miss smart and nuanced tv shows...
So right Chato. This last episode, the one about Uhura, really took me down the road, the BAD road to Star Trek Discovery. Where every episode had a Star Fleet officer wearing their emotions on the shirt sleeve. I like SNW, and I hope SOMEONE there is listening to B your videos, thanks again.
Thanks, Chato! Great examples of writing to destroy instead of create.
All "Kelvin "Star Drek (since 2009) is like it was written by and for teenagers.
As a woman I hate all the unrelenting yak, yak, yakking in movies and t.v. I hate all the oozing, wallowing, emotional sludge vomited into the void. I beg these new writers to please stop trumpeting aloud what should be subtext. You are right: it's booooorrring! Funny how you are a man but you represent my thinking so well. Women Star Trek fans will never stop appreciating objectively good writing (i.e., e.g., consistency, nuance and taste). Any other Hollywood assumption is the true sexism. What a strange new world we live in.
I believe that most writers today don't have the discipline, imagination, exposure to literature and culture with its resulting exposure to life experience necessary to tell a decent story. Best wishes.
I would agree with that 100%
Chato, I appreciate the roast, but I am more thankful for your explanation of what's wrong. Someone like me would just say "it sucks, don't how to explain it, it just sucks."
I don't start watching a show wanting to hate it. Life's too short for that. I wanted SNW to be good. It's Isn't, I stopped watching.
I agree....
Paul is our generation's Andy Rooney. Would be awesome to hear ticking stopwatch audio before/after each commentary
Except Chato isn't whiny and is whole lot smarter than Rooney.
It's always sucked. People let nostalgia cloud their minds like they were being attacked by the Shadow.
What's sad was that the Pike character was one of the few bits of "Star Trek: Disco-very" (any serious ELO fan will get the reference) that was salvageable. Now he's stuck in something that views more like STD than actual Star Trek. Pity.
In the current war between the studios and the writers in Hollywood, I'm starting to root for the robots. At least they can be programmed to care about good writing.
A big difference between classic Trek and new Trek: In all the old shows, the characters were focused on their duty, and the mission. In new Trek it's all, "I, I, I, me, me, me." They're all looking inward at themselves consumed with their own thoughts and feelings.
A reflection on todays selfish society.
Writers don’t seem to have any competence whatsoever… or even any experience of being human beings in human society. Maybe they’ve lived such sheltered lives that they don’t know how people act or society functions?
Neil Breen writes his own movies as well as directing them and taking the lead role. Breen has most of the villains freely admit how unethical and even evil they are. That shows how incompetent Breen is. Most modern writers have become just as lame, and seem less self-aware than Breen is!
I can't express enough how much I wholeheartedly agree with you. I keep trying and hoping for the best from SNW, and they repeatedly disappoint. I'm genuinely trying to understand why people like this show! Even if I completely disregard canon (as they have), it's just poorly written. I'm currently doing a rewatch of TNG. Most episodes I haven't seen since they originally aired. I'm currently on season 5, and while I may not like all of them, they're at least well written. And respectful to the characters and chain of command. It'd be nice if SNW gave us something strange or new. But at this point, I'll just take something meh over cringe.
I'm rewatching DS9 right now, seeing many episodes again since they first aired, and having a similar experience. There's just something about good writing that makes your brain feel fuller; like you just ate a healthy three-course meal versus cheap fast-food with these new shows.
Finishing the last 12 eps or so of Enterprise. Then I resume where I stopped at TNG. And I'm sure I will do DS9 and Voyager after that. That's where we are now. Watching old stuff cause the last 10 years or so have been total cringe movie and TV wise. Sad.😮😮😮
@@nunyabizness6595 The one where Hoshi is having visions (Vanishing Point) is kind of like the SNW episode with Uhura having visions. But Hoshi acts like a mature adult, doesn't have backstory trauma, and it's all about how people ignore her - which is kind of true. The Enterprise episode is in a continuous 3 act structure not broken up with meaningless diversions and soap opera.
at the end of the changeling episode, spock's dead pan no sir answer to kirk still cracks me up all these years later
I agree, I checked out of Star Trek, Star Wars and other things. I did watch Picard season 3 which was really good, but I knew that was not going to be the pattern and checked right back out. I don't want to hate watch shows or movies which is why I mostly watch older shows or movies.
Picard season 3 was only good because they dumped the trash they served up in the first 2 seasons . Lets kill Icheb and Seven into a the thing with Raffi , boom/bust lust/hookup/heat of the moment thing, turn Pickard into a robot . It was Cringe , really poor on all levels .
The whole idea of the series is constricting. It's a prequel and they stuck themselves with many characters whose arcs are already known--and the ship's arc is also known. This precludes a lot of plots. Spock, Pike, Uhura, and Chapel will survive. So will frequent guest star Kirk (unless you put him in an alternate timeline). So will the Enterprise. If I were a good writer it would not be a series that I'd want to work on.
Complete agreement on everything you said. Galaxy Quest was the best Star Trek movie ever made.
I would probably agree with your assessment if I ever watched a single episode of SNW. I suffered thru 3 seasons of STD and the first season of Picard and then finally gave up. As a classic Trek fan I really wanted it to be good. I kept hoping it would get better but it just kept getting so much worse! I look back now and don't know how I managed to hang in there as long as I did. So I don't blame you one bit for giving up on SNW.
Skip the second Picard and watch the 3rd. It's edgy movie Trek but it is good, apart from the lighting problems that plagued Discovery and the complete disregard for distance and travel time.
I used to love hearing my favourite youtube channels tearing into awful movies and series. But since it has become the norm for Hollywood to churn out shite like a recycling centre in full reverse, where you put in good stuff and it turns it into rubbish; I think I'd like to suggest they use their talents to take on their own trek-like mission; to explore strange new studios; to seek out new movies and new series; to boldly show what no man has shown before!
❤
I come for the mockery of SNW, I stay for the insights into writing and audience expectations.
Might as well be titled "Why most movies and TV shows suck more now." I think Hollywood's going to have a huge problem not long from now, Hollywood's audience is not just a candle burning at both ends, the entire candle is on fire .
First there's a whole generation coming up, kids that are around 14 and younger that just do not watch movies and TV shows at all, they'll soon be adults that don't watch movies and shows at all, preferring TH-cam and social media. Older folks in the 50s+ have already walked away from movies and new shows, preferring to watch old reruns instead. Apathy is also growing at an alarming rate for movies and shows for everyone in between these age ranges, people in my age range of late 30s early 40s don't really go theaters and prefer to just stream them later and are doing so less and less. Leaving people in their late teens to late 20s to carry all of Hollywood, not really the biggest movie goers and show watchers to begin with.
I always learn something with your analyses.
In college, I had a philosophy professor who used Vulcans as an example of stoicism in one of his lectures. "Vulcans don't have emotions," he said.
"That's not entirely true," I said. "They do have emotions. They train all their lives to suppress them."
"Oh!" he said. "So, actually, they're psychotic. That makes more sense."
I always felt the so-called Vulcan/Human "struggle" that Spock dealt with was introduced from a poor understanding of psychology. After TOS, emotional Vulcans were introduced (in Enterprise and "The Final Frontier"), so the psychosis aspect has merit. Spock's not fighting his genetic heritage. He's struggling between two cultures.
All Star Fleet officers act like high school kids in new Trek. It drives me crazy.
Spock was the original star. Women particularly liked the character. That is why he must be destroyed. Can’t have women liking calm, rational men with self control.
You bring into words so well what I'm thinking but can't eloquently say.
For me, it's the writers failing to understand that the genre is military science fiction. The star ship the characters are serving on is a military vessel, and the bridge crew has been hand-picked by the captain.
The amount of straight-up insubordination I've seen in this show is remarkable. That kind of behavior would have been corrected in Starfleet Academy. If it happens once, you're reprimanded on the spot, and you receive a good dressing-down in private. The second time, you're relieved of duty. Third time, you're in the brig, and likely on the next shuttle home.
You have to remember that Gene Roddenberry was a combat veteran, and he had a very focused vision of military customs and courtesies (from experience). When you fail to follow the conventions of the genre and established canon of the story, you are remiss in your duties as a writer.
Subtlety in writing is really missing these days. Everything is getting dumbed down, from website appearance, through Windows interface, to, unsurprisingly TV show/movie scripts. The user or the viewer can't be allowed to think anymore because everything is spelled out. Chato, I can't remember if you've done an episode on the dumbing down of the movie writing, but if haven't - you should. It'd be interesting to have your take on it.
Diminishing returns. After a certain period of "subverting expectations", one must run into a complete lack of anything worth saying. They only place left to go is _Star Trek Meets Abbot & Costello..._
“By Grabthar’s hammer…what a series”…..
I am getting the distinct impression that all of the usual suspects will soon run out of properties to talk about because all the deconstructioning called programming will be beyond watching and talking about as the joke that writes itself won't have any insight to gleen.
I think it will be gratifying to watch and experience us all living in the past and exploring when stories were told and ideas were shared with warmth and heart and genuine skill. the mutual experiences can be born again as we look in each others eyes and know we have communal beauty that leaves a theatre as we go on in our day to day.
I think we all know it is time.
I have seen only few minutes of 1st episode of 2nd season... and I gave up.
So... you're saying it gets worse?
Those of us who have loved Spock forever know this guy on SNW is Spock in name only.
I do disagree with you about SNW - to say it merely 'sucks' is understating just how bad it is. 🤮
Latest ep they handed a hallucinating Uhara a phaser to hunt down another crazy person. Where was the security teams in the bar most likely
Spock was cool in the past because the 60s was turmoil and emotional and he was a breath of fresh air of logic, reason, stoicism and calm. These writers couldn't write a logical person. That one scene in TOS where Spock explains to Tralane about how he abhors power used in an unproductive manner is classic. Now spock is just the clueless special needs kid.
Hawaiian pizza is as Canadian as Mr. Chato! It was born in Ontario of immigrants!
Once upon a time, being the IP holder gave absolute power over a franchise. That day is done. If the IP holder insists on not bringing out new content or bringing out garbage content, we can now make our own. I invite all my fellow Trekkers to enjoy another unauthorized novel completely free. Just google Star Trek Lost Destiny Race.
This is some fantastic commentary on writing and subtext. I think you've explained why I never enjoyed a single moment of ST: Discovery (watched three seasons) and hated the dialogue. And your point at 6:40 about "no going back" when speaking of what is happening to Spock is something I fear greatly. And the lesson will *not* be learned because, as you said, people thought this episode was funny. I thought it was stupid and cringe and intolerable.
As much as I disagreed with your analysis of SNW 2:2, I wholeheartedly endorse your comments here. I hope things get better, but like you say, there may be no going back.
Seeing that picture of Kirk, Spock and Bones just made me so sad for what we just dont have any more. Thankfully all the actual Trek still exists out there in streaming land. Its just odd how the new stuff is making the Abrams movies look like masterpeices. The only thing for it is the palette cleanser of Watching Wrath of Khan.
From Hells heart i spit at thee new Trek writers....
For me what’s missing about Ethan Peck’s Spock is the banter with McCoy. I miss McCoy so much.
I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I could never forgive them for the positive reviews of Picard $eason 3 .
spot on.....season 1 did had promise...season 2 took that promise, bashed it in the head, gave it an uppercut and then a gut punch....season 2 eps 3, 4, 5 and 6 are really bad why do i watch? so you don't have too
LIKED, STARRED, BELLED AND FOLLOWING
The helmsman's cringe dialogue, the nostalgia baiting, character destruction and the writing in general is just plain garbage. What a waste of a good cast.
Watching Season 2 is like they listened to Nerdrotic when he said modern Hollywood loves to deconstruct our heroes. Pike is the butt of the joke by an insubordinate crew. Spock is the source of story that seems to counter what happens in TOS and his development. And Kirk, well they just love killing him, I wonder why? Wesley's acting reminds me of Jim Carrey when they were doing Star Trek spoofs on In Living Color. They're applauding the views of 400,000 people, compared to the millions who saw it on TV and the 5 million who tried to stop the cancellation of Enterprise. These writers just imitate than understand the soul of a series.
Now we are here again Mister Chato...
Good subtext example that of galaxy quest
Truer words
What is lacking is respect for what came before
I was a Trek-Fan until Discovery started. I stopped watching after its third painful season. Then I only watched Picard season 3.
My heart is still crying of what the franchise has become and when I look to the left and right I see what happened to Star Wars, Dr. Who, Indiana Jones, Lord Of The Rings, The Witcher, Willow, Disney in general, Wheel Of Time, Matrix,..... I just can't take it any more.
only people who have not ascended to a higher plane of wokeness, hated Discovery
I can't agree with you more. A brilliant analysis not only of the state of Star Trek but of modern writing (if you can call it that) of Television and movies. Subtext is completely unknown to modern audiences. Especially in an era where the motto is "tell it don't show."
Bad writing results in bad shows. Who could have imagined that?
I don't like star trek but I do like this show. But my favorite character died. I won't say who but you know. Best character
I'm so fascinated and grateful that Paramount finally managed to produce a very, very good Star Trek episodes again.
They didn't produce bad seasons with Discovery, but unfortunately they never completely met my taste.
Picard seasons 1 and 2 were also very nice for me as a Next Generation fan, but they were never on the level of the old series.
BUT as of Picard season 3 and with Strange New Worlds seasons 1 and 2, they have done the stroke of genius...the miracle...!! Star Trek is finally what it was for decades.
Finally the passion and dedication to the stories, the atmosphere and the style is back!
The only thing I would criticize is that not enough time is taken to develop the characters in many (more) episodes. 10 episodes per season are not enough to present a harmonious character development. The actors do their best, you can tell! They hardly have not a chance in the short time. Unfortunately, the high speed caused by the few following makes it seem very rushed!
BUT whoever is responsible for this at Paramount and the studios involved... keep those people really tight and in your ranks. Pay them good money.
IT IS WORTH LIKE GOLD!
Star Trek is back! And i love it!!
All seasons of Discovery were bad. It was an abomination. Picard was distasteful (later seasons won't change that for me - I'm done with it). SNW is the only modern Trek show, which at least pretends to follow classical shows in their spirit. It's still mediocre, especially when it comes to writing, but I think we should give it a chance. For my taste, it's the only modern "Trek" which has a chance to become a Trek.
I agree with you - it's the first time since Voyager I'm able to watch ST series and not feeling I'm going to vomit. On the contrary, it's ok. and occasionally I'm having a really good time. A few years ago I wouldn't even believe it would be possible in "modern" times.