RME FF802 ESI M8UXL MIDI INTERFACE FERROFISH PULSE 16 i usually go for 256 sample rate when recording the synths without any processing to get accurate precision and sync and add the audio processing afterwards. Im also using wordclock to get a nice perfect sync between my ADDA converter and audio interface so there wont be any issue on my FL STUDIO.
As a software engineer, I find it kind of ridiculous this issue still exists to this day. I do understand all the technical issues of why PC midi sucks, and that it's not a straightforward problem to fix, but it SHOULD be fixable, if both hardware and software designers both collaborated on a solution. MIDI *could* be buffered and sent to the interface before it's needed just like audio, if it was part of the interface (I assume this case, ASIO) standard. Then the hardware device could play back those MIDI notes in perfect sync with the audio, since it *is* the device with the master audio clock. You could even leave it up to the DAW to convert the MIDI data to sample positions so that it could still be streamed without the device being required to track any kind of timing, just with some RAM to buffer the events and a simple CPU to follow the audio clock and pull events out of the queue. It ain't like MIDI is high bandwidth - certainly orders of magnitude lower than the 32 channels of audio being streamed to my MADI FX. I get that it would require collaboration on some kind of standard, and would probably add a chunk of cost to devices that implemented it, but come on, it's 2021 ... I guess there just aren't enough people still using MIDI for anyone to make an investment in this?
I'm with you bro. But unfortunately as software gets more complicated, this introduces jitter and delay. There is so much that has to happen between a program and hardware. As for the hardware (if you are triggering a sample) you introduce another software program with a CPU which adds even more jitter and delay, so everything becomes a complete mess. Back in the 80's when computers and computer MIDI programs were much more simple (no audio capability existed) they were much faster to act on start and stop and triggers. Herbie Hancock had a MIDI studio from hell and so did many others and there was no such thing as a multi-clock. If we kept everything in the box (only used the computer) then these issue would drastically decrease. But unfortunately with so many plugins at our finger tips it's easy to go overboard and this becomes a sample syncing problem even without hardware. Ableton is notorious for this which is why I switched to Cubase. Best wishes.
If you can design an elegant, 1U 19" 8-port MIDI interface that can hook up via ADAT or SPDIF, lots of people are going to absolutely love you for it. The ER-M is good for clocking, but what about individual notes? Right now you need an Eurorack box with an ES setup - it'd be so neat if it'd be in a single package.
@@elifan2523 If you send midi to DAW via Elektron with this will it record bang on the grid? or will it still need adjustment, I am trying to send bang on midi from Octatrack into Ableton and it still drifts using only RME UCX midi in. Thank you
@@jq7065 Well it’s been an issue for a long time for me too, I finally bought an ER-M Multiclock for tight sync but here’s an cheaper alternative th-cam.com/video/2qWKrzCnZt8/w-d-xo.html
To be honest in the beginning i was really skeptic about the ERM but after understanding it i was blown away that i can set the Buffer to 1024 and still have my external drum/machine/sequencer in time with what was coming out of my daw. It needs to be pointed out though that ERM does not shift MIDI Note information when used as a MIDI hub from daw to synths, only the clock. You will need an external sequencer which can be clocked by ERM in order to have control over synth lines, melody patterns etc. Also have the UCX and i think i am yet to understand why the price range.
I need to know how to use the noise sample for sync in a daw ……on a mobile device like my iPad Pro . The most stable native daw on the iPad is GarageBand for now so is it possible to sync to it and exactly what is the process step by step for iOS ? . I know the daw daw needs to run at a certain frame rate( 24 ppq I think ) but how do I use it in a mobile daw? Do I import it and loop it in the track ? The length of the song? And I haven’t been able to find this noise / plug in on the erm page that says “for iOS “ so I’m hesitant to use something made for a traditional desktop computer or laptop. There isn’t a tutorial that shows that process on an iPad Pro for instance so is this addressed at all by ERM ? since mobile is a very good thing for live recording I find . I’m very happy with the clock but it won’t allow me to sync as tightly as with the audio input driving sync I’m sure since that’s it’s advertised superpower and the reason the audio input is there . I really wish mobile computers were considered in the design process for hardware clocks . Does anyone know what to do? Peace 👽
Hey, I have an MPC Live 2 that has a Roland Fantom (which has an RME interface inside :)) connected to the MPC Live which is being used as the sequencer. I then have the MPC Live TRS to XLR on the Original Babyface which is in turn USB to my computer. What I now want to do is connect the Babyface to the MPC Live via MIDI so that it slaves Ableton Live and standalone drum machine plugins that I have with the MPC being the master. I'm thinking about an upgrade of some kind and thinking of the best RME device that would fit my needs and how I would go about doing this? Any advice would relax my brain.
Also, I must say that videos like these have helped me understand TotalMix much, much better. The ability to show a practical home setup really demystifies things.
Why can't the RME interface do this job with it's SteadyClock FS? Also if you send midi clock to the electrons does that mean you can't send midi notes to them anymore from your DAW as the midi in is already taken? Is this device really only for syncing external sequencers?
Is it possible to clock more than 4 synths/drummachines with the Multiclock? Can you still control all your devices if you run more than 4 machines or only 4 channels to control?
You could just do a software upgrade that would do that at least in your flagship interfaces. You have audio/midi outputs to do that. I just bought an fireface ufx3, that's your flagship interface, so why buy another interface to do what you can make possible by software ?
Very interesting ! Ide like to know if the Midi IN and OUT ports are also considered an upgrade compared to standard interfaces? Also, is that multiclock addition better than internally adjusting latency settings (per channel/device) within Ableton Live? Example: I have an Electribe (grey synth modded into a sampler) it has major jitter and delay issues possibly because I messed up..lol. Yet it works almost fine since Ive adjusted its settings in the MIDI section of Ableton Lives prefs.
Hey, which MIDI I/Os do you mean? From our Interfaces or the Multiclock? As mentioned in the video, it is the poor Implementation of MIDI on modern computers that will make the most problems. You can do this test very easily: Set your DAW as master, your Electribe as slave and look at the received clock signal. If you have a bpm display you‘ll likely see strong deviations (jitter) in he bpm values.
Can I synchronize my two computers runing each on ableton live to the same clock by using E-RM Multiclock ? Otherwise should I connect their both RME soundcards via their wordclock BNC plugs ? Does wordclock can replace midi synchronization or should they work together ? please let me know, best regards.
Can erm send note values from the daw or is just a clock? Its great for sequencers and drum machines I guess, but when it comes to synths its tricky with sending midi date from daw. I have seen you can send cc messages though
ERM can be used as Midi hub also but it will NOT shift the midi information coming from a DAW to your synth. Only the clock is shiftable. ERM It is really great to use if you clock an external Sequencer/Drum Machines.
hello, I just got a Fireface 800 and was wondering wether I can play my midi keyboard through MIDI/In (via midi cable) and control individual midi channels in ableton. Any help would be much appreciated.
Does the stereo headphone output on the RME Babyface (original blue model) work as the audio out for syncing with the multiclock? Babyface manual says that the phones output can be used as an additional line output as well. The problem with the Babyface is that it doesn't have enough outputs aside from the master 1/2 and heaphones and I'd rather not buy another interface so I can get the Multiclock.
Please RME release a UCX Mark 2 with 2 extra more I/O and updated converters and technology like the FS Steady clock. Also with USB C. 🙏🙏 it would be the perfect audio interface for electronic producers with bigger live setups.
personally I have a problem :( and I don't know how!Just got the MULTICLOCK and I own a MOTU 896 HD.I have tried them all but it seems that they do not want to communicate, on ableton I set everything correctly and I also bought a 3P stereo female XLR cable to connect the multiclock to the motu but the first does not receive anything.It does not mark the bpm, it does not mark anything, I tried to change the settings of the motu and also of the multiclock itself.At this point I feel obliged to change the card so .. if anyone had any advice they would be welcome :)
So this is a different thing all together than a digital work clock studios use to prevent audio smear? I record the midi in my DAW and when I record the Audio back in the timing is off. I have read this has to do with midi offsets . Meaning the time it takes to trigger the devices from the starting point. How does this solve that?
RME Audio If I want to sequence everything in my DAW like Protools would I disable midi beat clock option in Protools and let the ERM handle all the beat clock? This way Protools is just sending note and performance data?
Absolutely not! As mentioned in the video, we have a very good MIDI implementation. It is the MIDI protocol itself that causes issues, regardless of the implementation. This is a very complex issue and can only be fixed on an individual basis. All we did is giving a solution to a very specific problem.
RME has really great MIDI - so good that I got rid of my MOTU Express 128 and got a thru box hooked up to the FF802 MIDI out. I mostly have monotimbral hardware synths anyway so 16 channels is enough. In a better world we could have had network-based OSC with timestamps for over 20 years already, but getting manufacturers to adopt new standards is like pulling teeth - and everyone needs retrofits.
@@RMEAudio I'm well aware of how great your products are :D just thought it was odd to make a statement like that when you've combined your own product with the E-RM. Thanks for the reply
@@squoblat We just use the Multiclock as an example. It's important to understand that timing issues/delay are not always associated with latency. Furthermore, there are synths and drum machines with huge delays or inaccurate MIDI. If you want to line them up with the rest of your setup, you need to be able to individually shift patterns.
@@RMEAudio yes! although that may be the case, the natural saturation of a pushed preamp definitely adds the kiss of life to an electronic instrument in my experience.
RME Audio not everyone has the option to pay for two 2k+ devices, and why go for two when you can have it in one? If Presonus can do it, you guys can do it for sure. :)
@@EgeDai There are very nice vintage preamps out there for under 500$. But I agree, preamps can make your life much easier. One of the greatest benefits, I believe, is the Autoset feature in our interfaces, which keeps everything set perfectly (hence the UCX in this video). BUT all our preamps are great an can be pushed into interesting territory. Nonetheless, your input is very important and I'll make sure that we keep all of you satisfied.
I'm not sure what he's saying is correct... MIDI jitter in Ableton live is heavly connected to the audio driver being using, anything but ASIO4ALL has a TON of midi jitter... why? Because anything that allows audio from a source other than Ableton (i.e. desktop audio/web browser audio + ableton into the same pipeline) interferes with the MIDI timing... THAT is the most significant cause of midi jitter I have ever seen in a daw and he doesn't even mention it.
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What is your current setup?
RME FF802
ESI M8UXL MIDI INTERFACE
FERROFISH PULSE 16
i usually go for 256 sample rate when recording the synths without any processing to get accurate precision and sync and add the audio processing afterwards.
Im also using wordclock to get a nice perfect sync between my ADDA converter and audio interface so there wont be any issue on my FL STUDIO.
Nice, any suggestions for us?
RME FireFace 400 + Ferrofish Pulse 16 (Homestudio), RME FireFace UFX + RME QuadMic II + RME Octamic II + Behringer ADA8200 (Rehearsal Room)
@@saschakuebart3337 Do you use DURec?
RME Audio Nope, only tried once. I‘m recording into/with my DAW (Cubase)
As a software engineer, I find it kind of ridiculous this issue still exists to this day. I do understand all the technical issues of why PC midi sucks, and that it's not a straightforward problem to fix, but it SHOULD be fixable, if both hardware and software designers both collaborated on a solution.
MIDI *could* be buffered and sent to the interface before it's needed just like audio, if it was part of the interface (I assume this case, ASIO) standard. Then the hardware device could play back those MIDI notes in perfect sync with the audio, since it *is* the device with the master audio clock. You could even leave it up to the DAW to convert the MIDI data to sample positions so that it could still be streamed without the device being required to track any kind of timing, just with some RAM to buffer the events and a simple CPU to follow the audio clock and pull events out of the queue. It ain't like MIDI is high bandwidth - certainly orders of magnitude lower than the 32 channels of audio being streamed to my MADI FX.
I get that it would require collaboration on some kind of standard, and would probably add a chunk of cost to devices that implemented it, but come on, it's 2021 ...
I guess there just aren't enough people still using MIDI for anyone to make an investment in this?
I'm with you bro. But unfortunately as software gets more complicated, this introduces jitter and delay. There is so much that has to happen between a program and hardware. As for the hardware (if you are triggering a sample) you introduce another software program with a CPU which adds even more jitter and delay, so everything becomes a complete mess. Back in the 80's when computers and computer MIDI programs were much more simple (no audio capability existed) they were much faster to act on start and stop and triggers. Herbie Hancock had a MIDI studio from hell and so did many others and there was no such thing as a multi-clock. If we kept everything in the box (only used the computer) then these issue would drastically decrease. But unfortunately with so many plugins at our finger tips it's easy to go overboard and this becomes a sample syncing problem even without hardware. Ableton is notorious for this which is why I switched to Cubase. Best wishes.
What about integrating audio to midi clock in a RME audio interface??
If you can design an elegant, 1U 19" 8-port MIDI interface that can hook up via ADAT or SPDIF, lots of people are going to absolutely love you for it. The ER-M is good for clocking, but what about individual notes? Right now you need an Eurorack box with an ES setup - it'd be so neat if it'd be in a single package.
Thx for your input!
You can send individual notes
Please do this RME , i would buy several in a heartbeat!
The timing of this video couldn’t be better, literally connecting this up!! Thank you som much!!!
Very tight sync :-D you’re welcome!
Does everything work?
@@RMEAudio Yes! I'm quite new to Totalmix, took some time to wrap my head around Submit vs Free mix, your other tutorial helped out a lot!
@@elifan2523 If you send midi to DAW via Elektron with this will it record bang on the grid? or will it still need adjustment, I am trying to send bang on midi from Octatrack into Ableton and it still drifts using only RME UCX midi in. Thank you
@@jq7065 Well it’s been an issue for a long time for me too, I finally bought an ER-M Multiclock for tight sync but here’s an cheaper alternative th-cam.com/video/2qWKrzCnZt8/w-d-xo.html
Would be really nice and helpful to see an indept video of the multiclock
To be honest in the beginning i was really skeptic about the ERM but after understanding it i was blown away that i can set the Buffer to 1024 and still have my external drum/machine/sequencer in time with what was coming out of my daw. It needs to be pointed out though that ERM does not shift MIDI Note information when used as a MIDI hub from daw to synths, only the clock. You will need an external sequencer which can be clocked by ERM in order to have control over synth lines, melody patterns etc. Also have the UCX and i think i am yet to understand why the price range.
If recording midi into DAW with Octatrack Sequencer will it record into Ableton bang on the grid? I also have UCX
I need to know how to use the noise sample for sync in a daw ……on a mobile device like my iPad Pro . The most stable native daw on the iPad is GarageBand for now so is it possible to sync to it and exactly what is the process step by step for iOS ? . I know the daw daw needs to run at a certain frame rate( 24 ppq I think ) but how do I use it in a mobile daw? Do I import it and loop it in the track ? The length of the song? And I haven’t been able to find this noise / plug in on the erm page that says “for iOS “ so I’m hesitant to use something made for a traditional desktop computer or laptop. There isn’t a tutorial that shows that process on an iPad Pro for instance so is this addressed at all by ERM ? since mobile is a very good thing for live recording I find . I’m very happy with the clock but it won’t allow me to sync as tightly as with the audio input driving sync I’m sure since that’s it’s advertised superpower and the reason the audio input is there . I really wish mobile computers were considered in the design process for hardware clocks . Does anyone know what to do? Peace 👽
Hey, I have an MPC Live 2 that has a Roland Fantom (which has an RME interface inside :)) connected to the MPC Live which is being used as the sequencer. I then have the MPC Live TRS to XLR on the Original Babyface which is in turn USB to my computer. What I now want to do is connect the Babyface to the MPC Live via MIDI so that it slaves Ableton Live and standalone drum machine plugins that I have with the MPC being the master. I'm thinking about an upgrade of some kind and thinking of the best RME device that would fit my needs and how I would go about doing this? Any advice would relax my brain.
Also, I must say that videos like these have helped me understand TotalMix much, much better. The ability to show a practical home setup really demystifies things.
That's the reason for these videos. You made my day. Thank you :-)
Why can't the RME interface do this job with it's SteadyClock FS? Also if you send midi clock to the electrons does that mean you can't send midi notes to them anymore from your DAW as the midi in is already taken? Is this device really only for syncing external sequencers?
Is it possible to clock more than 4 synths/drummachines with the Multiclock? Can you still control all your devices if you run more than 4 machines or only 4 channels to control?
Hook one clock signal up to a splitter et voilá..
You could just do a software upgrade that would do that at least in your flagship interfaces. You have audio/midi outputs to do that. I just bought an fireface ufx3, that's your flagship interface, so why buy another interface to do what you can make possible by software ?
Very interesting !
Ide like to know if the Midi IN and OUT ports are also considered an upgrade compared to standard interfaces?
Also, is that multiclock addition better than internally adjusting latency settings (per channel/device) within Ableton Live?
Example: I have an Electribe (grey synth modded into a sampler) it has major jitter and delay issues possibly because I messed up..lol. Yet it works almost fine since Ive adjusted its settings in the MIDI section of Ableton Lives prefs.
Hey, which MIDI I/Os do you mean? From our Interfaces or the Multiclock?
As mentioned in the video, it is the poor Implementation of MIDI on modern computers that will make the most problems. You can do this test very easily: Set your DAW as master, your Electribe as slave and look at the received clock signal. If you have a bpm display you‘ll likely see strong deviations (jitter) in he bpm values.
Can I synchronize my two computers runing each on ableton live to the same clock by using E-RM Multiclock ? Otherwise should I connect their both RME soundcards via their wordclock BNC plugs ? Does wordclock can replace midi synchronization or should they work together ? please let me know, best regards.
im using the scarlet 2i2.
I ear the mix from DAW...and the square wave. do I need another out from the interface? which it doesn't have.
Erm- rme.. i get the lettersplay now.. sub company?
Can erm send note values from the daw or is just a clock? Its great for sequencers and drum machines I guess, but when it comes to synths its tricky with sending midi date from daw. I have seen you can send cc messages though
You can send individual notes. Once its connected via USB or MIDI cable. Its a really fun machine to work with.
ERM can be used as Midi hub also but it will NOT shift the midi information coming from a DAW to your synth. Only the clock is shiftable. ERM It is really great to use if you clock an external Sequencer/Drum Machines.
hello, I just got a Fireface 800 and was wondering wether I can play my midi keyboard through MIDI/In (via midi cable) and control individual midi channels in ableton. Any help would be much appreciated.
Does the stereo headphone output on the RME Babyface (original blue model) work as the audio out for syncing with the multiclock? Babyface manual says that the phones output can be used as an additional line output as well. The problem with the Babyface is that it doesn't have enough outputs aside from the master 1/2 and heaphones and I'd rather not buy another interface so I can get the Multiclock.
Yes :)
Please RME release a UCX Mark 2 with 2 extra more I/O and updated converters and technology like the FS Steady clock. Also with USB C. 🙏🙏 it would be the perfect audio interface for electronic producers with bigger live setups.
personally I have a problem :( and I don't know how!Just got the MULTICLOCK and I own a MOTU 896 HD.I have tried them all but it seems that they do not want to communicate, on ableton I set everything correctly and I also bought a 3P stereo female XLR cable to connect the multiclock to the motu but the first does not receive anything.It does not mark the bpm, it does not mark anything, I tried to change the settings of the motu and also of the multiclock itself.At this point I feel obliged to change the card so .. if anyone had any advice they would be welcome :)
RME and E-RM ? it seems E-RM has been really inspirated by RME brand
Same letters erm and rme
So this is a different thing all together than a digital work clock studios use to prevent audio smear?
I record the midi in my DAW and when I record the Audio back in the timing is off. I have read this has to do with midi offsets . Meaning the time it takes to trigger the devices from the starting point. How does this solve that?
Yes, indeed.
Exactly what you are describing is solved with this solution in the video.
RME Audio If I want to sequence everything in my DAW like Protools would I disable midi beat clock option in Protools and let the ERM handle all the beat clock? This way Protools is just sending note and performance data?
@@Skiroy yes. multiclock is doing all clocking so there's no clock signal going out of ableton
Is this suggesting the RME has bad MIDI drivers that can cause the MIDI clock to be unstable?
Absolutely not! As mentioned in the video, we have a very good MIDI implementation. It is the MIDI protocol itself that causes issues, regardless of the implementation. This is a very complex issue and can only be fixed on an individual basis. All we did is giving a solution to a very specific problem.
RME has really great MIDI - so good that I got rid of my MOTU Express 128 and got a thru box hooked up to the FF802 MIDI out. I mostly have monotimbral hardware synths anyway so 16 channels is enough. In a better world we could have had network-based OSC with timestamps for over 20 years already, but getting manufacturers to adopt new standards is like pulling teeth - and everyone needs retrofits.
@@RMEAudio I'm well aware of how great your products are :D just thought it was odd to make a statement like that when you've combined your own product with the E-RM. Thanks for the reply
@@squoblat We just use the Multiclock as an example. It's important to understand that timing issues/delay are not always associated with latency. Furthermore, there are synths and drum machines with huge delays or inaccurate MIDI. If you want to line them up with the rest of your setup, you need to be able to individually shift patterns.
@@RMEAudio makes sense. I think I need one of these, given up trying to use some of my groove boxes with Ableton
The only way obviously to get the erm working correctly is to use one of your interfaces obviously.👽
€500. I understand the use case. But man, was I cheaper off when I was 100% ITB.
Rme please give us electronic music producers an 8 preamp ad da with usb c :>
We hear you! But do you really need preamps? Most synths put out line level signals :-)
@@RMEAudio yes! although that may be the case, the natural saturation of a pushed preamp definitely adds the kiss of life to an electronic instrument in my experience.
@@EgeDai That's true but wouldn't you connect more warm/colorful external preamps?
RME Audio not everyone has the option to pay for two 2k+ devices, and why go for two when you can have it in one? If Presonus can do it, you guys can do it for sure. :)
@@EgeDai There are very nice vintage preamps out there for under 500$. But I agree, preamps can make your life much easier. One of the greatest benefits, I believe, is the Autoset feature in our interfaces, which keeps everything set perfectly (hence the UCX in this video). BUT all our preamps are great an can be pushed into interesting territory. Nonetheless, your input is very important and I'll make sure that we keep all of you satisfied.
I'm not sure what he's saying is correct... MIDI jitter in Ableton live is heavly connected to the audio driver being using, anything but ASIO4ALL has a TON of midi jitter... why? Because anything that allows audio from a source other than Ableton (i.e. desktop audio/web browser audio + ableton into the same pipeline) interferes with the MIDI timing... THAT is the most significant cause of midi jitter I have ever seen in a daw and he doesn't even mention it.