Also also I just realized something. The Telethia flying into the Fog King and destroying it was probably meant to foreshadow the main issue of 3, with the worlds colliding and canceling each other out. That Telethia probably sacrificed itself by colliding with the Fog King in such a way that they both just... blipped out of existence. ...Why do the Telethias keep getting sadder
32:45 I think the implication behind Origin metal is that it was originally ordinary metal from Bionis/Mechonis/Alrest (possibly steel, if Riku's explanation of the creation of Lucky 7 is accurate), and only has the power it does inside Aionios. In the base game Nia states Lucky 7 has the strength it does because it is "external to the flow", and A and Riku reveal in Future Redeemed that it is connected to the souls within Origin. Basically, Origin metal is linked to the souls of everyone stored in Origin, and is able to cut through the false world their fear of the unknown created. As something that exists outside of Moebius's world, they have no control over it.
@@LilybeeTV well if u think about it, even in aionios if it didn't contain souls or connected to origin, it's quite literally just the sharpest tool in the shed. It's made from arguably the strongest metal so it's just a blade that can inherently cut thru most things then add it being empowered further allowing it to cut through the reality of moebius.
While I understand that some may have wanted Xenoblade 1 to stand alone as its own game, I generally feel that Monolith Soft did retcons right. They did it in a way that benefitted the franchise and, to me, made XC1 even more interesting retroactively. Anyway, on to watching the video since I only really know of two retcons, lol.
I can't remember where exactly I found it, but I remember seeing a snippet of an interview early on in 1's history where Takahashi was told about how neatly self-enclosed 1 is to the point that there doesn't seem like anything left to follow up on. I'm paraphrasing but his response was "Oh really? ;-)" and that he likes to deliberately leave a few things open at the end of his stories so that there's room for a sequel. Meaning he was ready to continue the story of 1 from the getgo.
@@fenix0seraph There certainly was room left for a sequel, I personally always knew. Shulk's new world(which I would like to call "New earth", but that conflicts with the end of FR now) was completely unexplored, which is material for a new game in its own right, just maybe a few inuniverse generations later. And Shulk wished for a world with no gods instead of one that definitively does not need them...which is a thing they actually used as a basis of XC3, but the implementation of that is kinda scuffed. The point I see tho is that there is a diffrence between using room left for a sequel and just ripping room open, even if it leaves the preexisting story with a flesh wound that won't heal because the space is now filled with matter that clearly was not meant to be there.
@@lpfan4491still think Mira is that planet or just a pocket universe where earth(old miltia) went. Not like the stories are connected, but the plots are similar in that sense.
Many people fell in love with Xc1 because on it own still holds up, and despite people loving 2 and 3, many felt that the lighting in the bottle that Xc1 had was not in those games.
@@zetamangads That's pretty much where I stand. I still love Torna, Xenoblade 3, and Future Redeemed but to me they never quite reached the highs and overall package of Xenoblade 1 for me. So although there's retcons and we see the fates of XC1 characters in later installments I'll just remember Xenoblade 1 as it's own standalone thing without paying much mind to anything after that I feel diminishes everything I love about it.
33:50 in Xenoblade 2 the stuff that made the world tree is said be very durable and able to stand the harsh effects of time and remain in pristine condition unlike the stuff that Elysium was built on
Honestly always interpreted the different Birth of a Universe cutscenes outside of being a retcon being how Zanza viewed it in his mind vs. how the Architect viewed it in his mind. One very egotistical and one very mournful and reflected. And with Alvis only appearing in 1's world after a set amount of time, it's possible they didn't have the full picture anyways
For me, the Birth of a Universe scene in XC1 was Alvis summing it up almost like a black box. It knew some of the information being sent through and could understand it, but it wasn't able to get the fine details due to a lack of information. It's also worth pointing out that the Trinity Processor wasn't it's own person as of the experiment. It was essentially a trio of CPUs discussing how to use a god-like power source with no real thoughts of their own, and that's especially the case for Ontos. They didn't really care for human specifics, rather the information being sent through the Low Orbit Stations.
The pov of playing God vs the pov of someone who didn't forget why and what led to it... and regrets trying to control everyone's futures without them getting a choice.
Nope sorry all that goes out the window when you have literally other assistant people in the room with klaus with a space window then in Xenoblade 2 it’s just him and her and the whole I wish to be a god yet him say I want humanity’s to survive BULLSHiIIiIiII Sorry not going to hear that laziness excuse that it was just point of view Now with that retcon the two moments of klaus of xeno 1 and Xeno 2 now feel like two different Damn timelines of events ugh 😑 Like honestly i understand things being added to the lore to give more of a explanation and all but Over retroactively explaining it to the point the original end we know now makes no sense HOW DO YOU F@@@ that up?!!!🤨 especially when it’s the SAME DIRECTOR NO EXCUSES 😡😒
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003thats literally how unreliable narrators with different perspectives works. Zanza remembered other people because he wanted an audience to see him ascend to godhood, while the Architect only remembered the most relevant details that led to his mistake.
The origin concept totally needs MUCH more explanation. I'm ok with the vagueness of it just for the sake of letting peoples imagination run wild, but if Monolithsoft can build any future plot out of it, I am all for it.
Origin is soft sci-fi rather than hard sci-fi, the focus is on what it does to the characters and world, and not how. And that is fine, it is a very common brench of sci-fi. Maybe with the X universe they will incline a bit more to hard sci-fi but even that still expect it to be more of science fantasy than pure sci-fi, and that is the setting they prefer.
@Zorgot. I feel like it's a subject that needs to sit for awhile for it all to sink in, and maybe you need to be a bit older to eventually understand it.
Alvis didn't show the full context to Shulk of the previous world because time was of the essence due to Bionis collapsing and because even Alvis doesn't have a full picture of the events.
In addition, I remember a lot of people believing that the reason the cutscenes were so different was because of perspective. That being the cutscene in XC1 was how Zanza remembered it in his arrogance and hubris. Paraphrasing what Alvis says in the final battle, ‘the power of providence is great, but not unlimited’ likely referring to his connection to the Zohar, in his hubris he likely completely threw away anything that could stand above him. In addition, Zanza was never aware of his other half to begin with, if he was never aware of that who knows how reliable his other memories of the old world were
I definitely think the difference is intentional. It reminds me of Xenogears Perfect Works, where it describes an important plot point from the game, then says what actually happened was a bit more complicated. Takahashi really likes his unreliable narration and used it liberally - it only looks retconny when the story is spread over multiple games.
Around 14:50, that's not depicting the actual universes colliding, just individual particles meeting. It's established by the Chapter 7 infodump and the challenge mode portals that the colors corresponding to each universe are red and blue, whereas going off of Keves and Agnus's color schemes, yellow and blue at least represent the ether particles from each universe, if not all their matter. That scene also contains those transparent hexagons that universally represent shields or barriers in the series, here representing Origin's attempts to keep the particles separated. The immediate cut to an annihilation event hollowing out Uraya implies these specific particles meeting caused that annihilation, but it may also just be alluding to annihilation events in general being caused by these collisions.
43:10 My understanding of this is that A/lvis didn’t foresee Aionios. A says ‘all I see is what the flow encompasses’. Since Aionios isn’t part of the flow of time, A/lvis couldn’t foresee it.
Technically Torna does retcon some minor visuals. Clearly they didn't have all the models ready, so just using the wastelands of Temperantia as a place holder was easier than deciding on what they wanted locations like Aletta to look like. Most importantly of all those minor changes was changing Addam's eyes from blue to gold because the color of his eyes have an impact on the plot. It's almost surprising how few retcons there are with how much the base game talks about the Aegis War. It just manages to leave enough room for new interpretations, such as Mythra having little involvement up until the very end of it.
A. Also Jin's sword is on Lora's back in the base game cutscene of them meeting young Mik, implying Lora is the one using it like how driver/blade pairs work in base XC2
Eh, idk. I still think the "truth" is supposed to be more exciting and emotionally gripping and not less, unless the point of the story was that people were overselling the events in question. Torna, while a neat expansion where it works, does not exactly allow for more interpretations, it just replaces the most logical interpretation with something majorly downscaled that not at all fits all the pain of the past regarding Mythra that is showcased by the entire world in XC2. Also kinda turns the entirety of the narrative into the Torna-meme of everyone bullying Mythra for no reason.
@@lpfan4491 I mean, you kind of already get that when you get a heart to heart (I'm pretty sure it was) of Mythra, Zeke, and I think Nia. Where Mythra points out how Addam didn't like spicy foods at all, like the stories Zeke seems to be hearing is trying to paint Addam as. Which was destroying this "manly" image Zeke had of Addam in his head.
About the radio and the potential links with Xenogears and Xenosaga, that was already the case in Xenoblade 2. The artbook of Xenoblade 2 states that KOS-MOS Re was designed by Shion and Allen. These must come from the same universe as the Dimitri Yuriev mentionned by the radio.
I think that the two worlds recombining would release the same Conduit energy that initially split them (conservation of energy), and that would explain why Origin would work: its recycling the leftover reality warping power from the Conduit.
The collision between different types of matter also releases an insane amount of energy, so maybe they used some of that too. When the worlds combined and both halves of Origin phased into each other and "clicked", maybe an antimatter engine of sorts started up, and it booted up Origin
@UltimaPhoenix-dx3kt The amount of energy released in annihilation can only be equal to the matter. So conservation of energy. As matter is just a form of energy (e=mc²)
Shulk isn't stupid for not recognizing Earth as a planet, he's just ignorant. If we were a space fairing species we'd probably have the same exact reactions to uncharted planets.
26:10 I feel like you're being a liiiiiittle harsh on Shulk here. Like, Homs technology is amazingly advanced for such a struggling species (see: floating transports, healing rifles). That one NPC in Colony 9 who says that the ocean around the titans is infinite and flat mentions, I believe, that math says it should curve after a certain point, like a planet, but it doesn't. You said it yourself, Xenoblade 1 takes place in a pocket dimension. It's not that Shulk doesn't recognize a planet - he straight up doesn't know what they are because they simply don't exist in his world. Can you imagine trying to explain everything we know about the sun to someone who has lived underground all their lives? Heck, the sun and stars over Bionis and Mechonis aren't actual sun and stars! They're balls of ether in the sky that brighten or dim or fall depending on the conditions. Their universe just works differently from Earth's. That's not Shulk's fault.
I think it’s kinda neat when you look back on xenoblade 1 with the idea that ontos is a part of the trinity processor as essentially an arbiter of power, you start to notice that alvis is present in quite a few “trinities” like you can consider him, zanza and meyneth a trinity, the disciple trinity and also at the end of the game with him shulk and zanza sort of being one too. Maybe I was the only one ever confused by this but I never got the logic behind the providence of the universe limiting zanzas power here at the end of all things but viewing it as Alvis using his position as an arbiter to err on the side of shulk and his friends’ desires to be rid of zanza really helped me in finally solidly understanding or having an interpretation on how his power works
ngl im calling bs on the galea one. in the cutscene shulk literally says "thats meyneth" and she has the same face and voice actor. its very obviously meant to be who meyneth was. perhaps they were leaving that open for potential open sequel reasons but im not sure
About Origin. Pretty much thinking that it is pretty much a man-made Zohar/Conduit. When creating Origin, it didn't have any major power beyond the Ontos/Pneuma Core powering its halves, the technology/information inside of the cores allowing the people in each world (once getting informed about the upcoming situation) to create and back-up the souls of people inside of core crystals. The Zohar is a gateway to the Imaginary Number Domain, the place of the Dead Collective Unconscious. So Origin being a massive collection of Souls in one spot pretty much is dragging the Imaginary Number Domain into the Primary Number Domain, pretty much being a Zohar/Conduit in its own right. Heck, Z and Moebius (and the whole conflict in XBC3/Future Redeemed) is pretty Humanity's "Living Collective Unconscious" (IE the collective consciousness of all the souls living on Earth's 2 divided halves) inside of Origin creating Aionios as a realm to express themselves in. So pretty much Origin is a Zohar/Conduit-Emulator via brute force rather than being hooked into the actual Zohar/Conduit. As for Origin Metal, it was stated that Origin Metal "Exists outside the flow" of Aionios. Which, due to Aionios being a sort of conceptual space either in the Imaginary Number Domain, or between it and the Real Number Domain, would make sense as Origin Metal was made outside of Origin. So Origin metal could just be an alloy obtainable in either world that would be, while strong and levitatable, not particularly special. But inside of the conceptual space of Aionios, has power not only due to being a material outside of Origin (as in not created from it), but also due to being part of Origin with that Collective Unconsciousness inside of it.
I wonder if we're not over thinking it. In other xeno games the Zohar is the source of all Ether. In Xenoblade, the two worlds are permeated by it due to the conduits use in their creation. Since the Ether is already there, is the Zohar really necessary to continue powering Origin? Edit: so many typos
I've been saying that Alvis before XB2 was a retcon and was probably a HAl 9000 type computer before being retconned into a part of the Trinity Processor (which is a bit different than an administrative computer like HAL 9000, as Ontos only does stuff with the Conduit and the other two cores, and people presumably control stuff on Rhadamanthus). Im not an Alvis Ontos denier, its just that he was a bit different from what he is now.
I was also of the opinion that Alvis was a HAL. I was convinced the entirety of Xenoblade 1 was happening in a computer simulation. Inside Alvis basically.
Heck, the only way him calling himself "Monado" would logically work is if that is his name as a blade(Minus that his name as a Blade would be Alvis then, or else that name makes no sense in this explanation, because even Zanza calls him that), like how Malos was awakened from the Logos-core. The conceptual issue being that this is beyond unlikely because they pretty much established that the event that the Ontos-core vanished at was nearly without a doubt the XC1-creation event and that would mean the core was never refunctioned into an admin of the blade system like the other two were. I think FR wants to fix this by saying Alvis was specifically created by Klaus somehow, but that just makes it infinitely more messy.
No, it really isn't when you realize who Alvis has been with. Alvis, Dickson, Lorithea. Dickson said "of the Trinity", during his reveal, and that over time showing he was working with Lorithea, and then at the end with Alvis, the whole time. In tandem of creating the world, and I guess keeping it balanced, it's Zanza, Meyneth, and Alvis. Even all their swords lined up together in a triangle at the end. Even Future Redeemed points this out, with how Alvis doesn't do anything without there being others, most of the time. So with that, you thought wrong, and Alvis is, and always has been, a trinity core processor. Even in the beginning.
31:33 I don't remember where in 3 I heard it, but I remember hearing something about Origin getting the energy needed to recreate the universes from the light generate by annihilation events. It make sense, considering a matter-antimatter collision would convert 100% of its mass into energy (mostly in the form of light), which Origin could just convert back into the original objects as either all matter or all antimatter. I'd imagine something about its total control over Aionios is what allows it to collect that light without literal solar panels.
You did not hear this. You heard how the energies released during Annihilation Events and the energies of Origin's powers are vaguely similar in nature. You did not hear that Origin is powered by Annihilation Events; that would be the physics defying Keves Castle laser.
The mentions of things like the pocket dimensions always being the plan/intent reminds me of something from the Monado Files. In the short story that helps explain how Fiora got her body back, a portion of it mentions how Shulk wants to build Monado replicas for everyone in the colonies for protection while they go fight the final threats. The Monado REX in Future Connected is definitely partly intended to be a good nod to Shulk's intent to make monado replicas himself, albeit in collaboration with Machina.
I don't think Origin metal is intrinsically special, I think it has the power it does because of the same diamond-cutting-diamond thing you mentioned earlier. As the components of Origin, it's the base building block that the world of Aionios was generated from, and holds unique powers within the confines of that zone. Take it out or put it on Bionis and Alrest and it's just generic metal that Shulk and Tora agreed was strong enough to be worth building a world-saving Ark out of.
I will say that my perspective is the Radio has the _potential_ to be a retcon, but _isn't_ one *_yet._* _If_ Monolithsoft remakes Xenosaga and makes it canon in Xenoblade, then they would become retcons. If instead they decide to "retell" the story of Xenosaga as a distinct game (say "Xenoblade Saga"), then they would _not_ be retcons since it would be a distinct work from the original.
I mean ironically the retcon to fit xenosaga in is actually decently easy to do cause u have a lot of time frame u can insert shit in and other stuff Xd
I keep going back and forth on how I feel about the radio scene. On one hand it was fun and kind of heart warming to watch all the long time xeno fans absolutely pop off online. On the other, was literally not paying attention to anything Na’el was saying because I was trying to hear the radio, and plot wise that’s what actually mattered.
Yeah same lol, at the time I was playing Xenogears and I was thinking how similar the things the radio was saying to Xenogears (mostly the people leaving Earth on ships, though said in Perfect Works), turns out it was a Xenosaga reference
Idk if this was ever mentioned but I'd say the term "Hom" from Xenoblade one is also retconned because everyone in xenoblade 3 is referred to as human just like Xenoblade 2 (minus blades from 2)
It wasn't exactly retconned because nobody within Aionios were aware of Machina, Hom, High Entia, Gormotti, etc. All the endless now and Moebius needed them to know was that they are human in this world. The expendable soldiers shouldn't be worrying about various races and what-not as that would be counterintuitive to their plans.
I'd say it's less about a retcon but more about the XC3 people not understanding the concept of races or of terms native to XC1. That's why Melia doesn't bring up them both being High Entia to Eunie when Eunie mentions they're the same. In Future Redeemed Shulk could have mentioned they were called Homs back on Bionis but that doesn't really mean much to everyone else so the term is eventually forgotten.
The dates in the titles of many of songs from Xenoblade X are from 2012 and 2013 when the game released in 2015, meaning any of the potential lore in songs such as In The Forest might be retconned in the future due to later changes in the story between the songs being made and the game releasing
hum... that idea of too many pocket universes may not be true as now that it's confirmed that Klaus' original universe is the same as Xenosaga, when XC3 DLC merge 2 pocket dimensions, earth was back to the original state. That action probably destroied any other pocket dimension that could be created because Klaus so Mira going bye bye anyway. If you consider pocket dimensions was about the size of earth itself, anything outside that reagion on space could get in including light. So the sky in XC1 and XC2 is actualy the outside, the Xenosaga universe.
I agree with Xenoblade X. If a port to that game come ever to exist then it should have the missing content. It's obvious that game was planned as a game as a service type. They tried to release a massive game that would receave massive updates. thus the lv60 cap. At least they need to end the game's main story. It wouldn't be that dificult to realocate things to make a proper main story I think...
Yea idk if it's too weird she doesn't mention it given that learning of his death basically pushed her over the edge and creating pyra so the too painful to talk about seems like the obvious reason.
"Or have you forgotten what you did before implanting your core crystal?" -mikail Flashback shows amalthous implanting a core crystal into a gormotti boy while mik looks on. Unfortunately I can't tell if this model is unique or reused. Mik would easily let it happen if it was supposed to be milton and amalthous assured him he could bring him back to life. Note that bringing this up is the angriest we ever see mik get. I think the implication is that it's supposed to be milton in the flashback. Of course mythra wouldn't mention him. He's directly tied to her trauma and she's in no way ready to tell the details and probably never will be able to.
9:23 I think this is really interesting, because in one of the xenoblade 2 artbooks it shows concept art for some of the blade weapons and it almost looks like the blade's were intended to have two different forms/attacks, almost making it like switching between two weapons. This can kinda be seen with the shield hammer being a shield and a hammer more literally originally. Also the concept of whip swords, being able to change between whip and sword. It even looks like the Aegis blade may have been a n energy canon as well. So I think its interesting that this idea was intended for 1, used in X, and then maybe intended for 2 as well before being scrapped
Man, its great to have another Luxin Xeno video. Although the future of the franchise is kind of unknown right now, It's great to digest all 3 games across a span of 11/13 years. The scenes and music makes me so nostalgic and I'm reminded the love I have for the games. Thank you, Luxin!
I have a theory that origin metal is actually just the same material the mechonis was made of. Origin and N’s sword of the end are both black in color, which is very similar to the color of the mechonis. The metal the mechonis was made of could only be cut through using a monado or a weapon made of machina technology, likely of the same material. Assuming flame clocks are made using origin metal, that explains why only monados and origin metal weapons can damage them. This would also make sense for origin metal being able to contain people’s souls/memories, because the mechonis was a sort of vessel for Meyneth’s soul.
25:32 ofc Shulk thought it was a ball of water. They have no concepts of planets because they live in a pocket dimension on a neverending flat plane. Shulk isnt dumb for not understanding a concept from a completely other dimension with no basis in his own.
When they eventually reveal that nopon created the Zohar to take over the universe and that’s why they are in every game I’m gonna laugh so hard Also I like to think Xenoblade 1 birth of the universe is how Zanza remembers it, and Xenoblade 2 is how Klaus remembers it
the radio: exists, everyone (including Luxin): "hoo, boy, what does it mean?!" me: "the butter cookies lookin' real tasty like (and I've seen them in animes, too)" priorities, am I right? :D
That one was to tie in the next stories, I suppose. Alvis is Ontos was broken by the issue that he didn't have an Aegis Core Crystal, so in the "Definitive Edition", they made sure he had one.
Yeah I guess when you're talking about the shonen stuff not being planned yet, imo something that wasnt originally planned for a story being added in during the writing process doesnt count as a retcon. Imo for an ongoing series a retcon would only be something that directly contradicts something that has already been established previously.
i always thought the yellow and blue balls coming together were particles or atoms coming together, and then the next scene showing an annihilation event right after, and not the whole universes. but the different depictions did throw me off a bit. i like consistency, so visually changing up how we see things confuses me a bit lol
one thing you mention is Ontos going dormant which isn't what happens what happens is Alvis goes off like the end of Xenoblade 1 says but his personality eventually goes dormant without his connection to Klaus reverting back into his machine like state being Alpha, then Alpha sends his core to Shulk(like how Alpha gives his core to Na'el in FR) so he and the others can create Origin to set up his plan to create Aionios so that the new Life for his new world can be born so technically this isn't changing what happened to Alvis at the end of 1, but is adding on to it
I don't know if this counts as a retcon, but somewhere in base game ( i belive morytha) jin says that humans and blades used to live togheter in old torna, but when you actually play torna, there is like, 2 blade npcs.
He was referring to the scene with the Torna titan's "womb" room that you also see in Torna. The Tornans were specifically aware of life cycle between Blades and Titans and cherished it. Many things happening in Torna "taught" Jin about humans and Blades cohexisting peacefully, only for Amalthus to ruin everything.
My head cannon about Lin’s hair pins is that Xenoblade 1 is a video game in the X universe and she played it before earth was destroyed and was a fan so she made the pins
I really appreciate the definition and explanation you gave about the term "retcon" at the start, as a non native speaker it was something that I could not understand until you explained it that way.
Could it be that the Klaus experiment that caused Xenoblade 1's world to be formed in a pocket dimension and it's merge with Alrest is the reason why Earth/ Lost Jerusalem cannot be located in xenosaga? I've always thought about this, but with this video saying 1's world as a pocket dimension could imply that Klaus' experiment had not only recreated a new universe (as klaus said), but also created a pocket dimension that could be separate from the dimension U-DO and other form of beings that could be behind the conduit/ Zohar?
Well, the original lore for saga, which I believe was presented as _theory_ not necessarily proven fact, was that Lost Jerusalem had somehow been shrunk to the plank scale. However, if we assume the pocket universe containing it's remnants is essentially a Klein bottle or something similar using Xenosaga cosmology, both the shrinking and the pocket universes can be true. But yes, the implications now is that Klaus' experiment is why Lost Jerusalem was lost.
@@badlatency9979if it turns out true, the whole xenosaga to xenoblade (even xenogears) turns out to be perfect work's new interpretatiom of what happens before the events of gears. That'd be amazing.
36:28 it’s worth noting that Alvis’ goodbye from the ending of DE is visually called back by Alpha’s goodbye to Matthew (or maybe it was the original Alvis somehow, since he seemed to have no grudge against Matthew for helping murder him). So Alvis’ words to Shulk about all life walking hand in hand were probably his last words.
25:57 I’m of the opinion that the flashback we saw at the start of Chapter 10 was shown in its entirety to Rex before the third sword dusted, which would explain why he has an emotional reaction to Galea’s ID card after killing her (Infernal Guldo)
Hear me out, Xenoblade X takes place after the main trilogy after the reboot of origin, with all races becoming human, as seen in the City. The Earth formed after the reboot of Origin is the same Earth that got destroyed in X. Origin undid Klaus's experiment, and Mira made that undoing all for nothing. Perhaps Mira isn't just a byproduct of Aionios, but rather the last remaining bit of Moebius. Xenoblade X never truly ends, after all. Mira could be purgatory for the undoing of a Klaus's sin. In closing, I don't think X is a separate universe, but rather a follow up to the ending of Future Redeemed.
I thought it was pretty clear they used the remains of the Mechonis and the World Tree to make Origin in each world. Origin’s theme has motifs of the World Tree theme and there are very clear Mechonis-like structures all over Origin
IMO, Alvis/Ontos might indeed have shown Shulk a misremembered version of the experiment. Remember how Elysium looks in the memory of Pyra. Real Elysium has a giant wall with a door next to the tree, while there's no such thing in Pyra's memory version of Elysium. She herself calls it a "half-forgotten memory of what once was". So no, the Aegises/Trinity cores don't have perfect memory. Pyra doesn't and Alvis might also not.
They literaly uses Definitve Editions look to make a whole 4 secondish snibbit cutscene of shulk picking up the ontos core crystal. That really through me off so much.
To explain Orgin metal, here’s my headcanon since I got 0 proof. The strongest metal we have on earth right now is Steel, which is an alloy. Perhaps Mechonis metal was simply manufactured and purified with pure ether, until it could withstand ether. That is the ONLY thing, besides Monado and Mechonis metal, that seems to damage mechon (see Zord after falling into Ether). A metal strong enough to withstand the blood of the Bionis should be strong enough to destroy a flame clock. Once again, 100% headcanon, 0 proof, but it’s my only logical explanation for a metal to be stronger than Mechonis Metal.
You said using light to communicate between dimensions is nonsensical. I personally think it touches on annihilation in physics and its theoretical aspects, especially in quantum mechanics, something that's very theoretical. I'd suggest reading more about this if you want to understand more about the annihilation event.
They had a easy out which would not have required Xenoblade 2 to retcon Xenoblade 1 at all since they went through the trouble of changing hair color in the Klaus scenes based on other science fiction one would have assumed both of those scenes happened in different universes along with Klaus himself in 2 confirming the existence of multiple universes. There is also Takahashi claiming that the story for 3 was considered as a sequel before 2 and also Takahashi claiming 2 had no connections to 1 before launch of 2.
25:33 I mean to be fair, the concept of a planet doesn’t exist in Xenoblade 1, their stars and suns are essentially balls of ether, I personally give shulk a pass for not knowing a concept from a completely different universe
My big theory: The key we've lost refers to Alvis old model having a key and the original plan was to reintroduce the Zohar in X or the follow up of X and what they scratched. At least I do think that at some point it was planned to have X being connected to 1, 2, 3. They could still do it with different universes and all but it wpuld prolly just be a "Yeah this is the same Game series you know" easter egg rather than expanding on them like 2 did.
SPOILER BELOW! DONT LOOK IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO WATCH THE VIDEO!! Question/Idea for Luxin about something mentioned in the video had a thought about the "merging" and the power source behind origin. what if it was the annihilation itself that powered the processes of origin? like it was literally stated in 3 that 1 and 2 were once whole, seperated, and now OPPOSITE and yearning for each other. i think if they merged it would be like matter and antimatter and that could power Origin. matter and antimatter release 100% of their energy, compared to nuclear which is only like 1-2% usable. so a big enough source of energy to power everything.
I think it’s already shown very clearly in the game itself. Both moebius and ouroboros needs people from two worlds and if they interlink for too long they gonna overheat and annihilate. The power of ouroboros comes from some sort of controlled annihilation effect is super obvious. Besides the ouroboros cores look very similar to the Origin itself.
Also, Xenoblade, one and two during the early 2000s the Zohar activated, causing the entire earth to disappear for thousands of years. Then it reappeared in normal space thousands of years later, in the 4000s which happens 4000 years later. So the dating system was changed to 4000s. The Xenosaga takes place 4000 years later, in the late 4000s, which is around the same time as the start of Xenogears. But because of the radio broadcast it change that , pretty much the ship that left earth in the early 2000s, took the Zohar off of earth, but for some reason it was still on earth and cause to disappear for 4000 years then it reappeared in empty space. 10,000 years later, it reappeared on the planet. It went to on the edge of the Galaxy in other solar system. Which means the Zohar can be at multiple places at once, even if it was renamed the conduit in Xenoblade . It was on earth, in Xenoblade, and the Earth disappear for 4000 years, then it appeared in empty space Xenosaga, then it appeared on the edge of the galaxy in a different solar system at the same. Which means the Zohar can be in multiple places at once. It was in three places, even though it wasn’t even on earth, and it just reappeared an empty space by itself. It even changed its form in Xenogears.🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 The Xeno timeline is a bit of a mess, because obviously the devs didn’t play or do research on the previous games. Because I hate to say this, the Xeno is old and they are new people that are making the game, younger people that didn’t play the original or didn’t do enough research. So there’s gonna be a lot of pretty much wrong information which does happen from time to time when basing a new game off of the old one . Because sometimes the writers, will forgets things from 20 years back . And new writers didn’t do enough research or didn’t play the game at all because they’re harder to get now even if you work for the company.
You make a point at 32:45 that origin metal is a "miracle material", making it sound as if it's something that cannot exist in the worlds of 1, and had not existed within 2. I would beg to differ, however. Going in order of your points, this is my counter argument You could argue that "Origin Metal" (inside of the world of Aionios) could just be any normal metal from outside of the worlds (like just any old metal, or even Mechon metal) that has its powers given to it form inside of Aionios due to it being what helped form this stopped world. It would similar to how the Manado is an extension of the Trinity processor, being able to do damage to anything inside of its own world (The Bionis). Plus, we know the trinity processor helped create the pocket dimensions found in 1 and 2, and it is also used to help make the world of origin. That could be why the Sword of Origin, (or the Lucky Seven) is able to cut through any element of the world it resides in, being made of the literal fabric of the world itself. And we can even explain how Origin metal is found within the world of Aionios this way as well. The idea that the worlds of 1 and 2 were scanned, you can assume any parts of Origin would make their way into the combined world as well. You can assume two things with this, 1: There were scraps of Origin metal taken off of Origin during the collision of worlds, sending them scattered as time froze. This would allow for those small shards to be read as data, split into the world, and cast about. Assuming the impact created hundreds of shards, you can explain away all of the pieces found, and used, throughout Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Alternatively... 2: (Forgive me if I get something incorrect here, I haven't played 3 in a while) When Zed brings Origin into the world of Aionios during the events of the worlds collision, it is possible he created enough of a disturbance within Origin to knock loose shards of it. (Especially when it appears over the center of Aionios during Future Redeemed, with Alpha/Falls onto the previously mentioned land in the ending) This could explain how many parts of Origin are scattered around Aionios, and would give in universe events as to why Origin is found throughout all of the surrounding portions of Aionios. These are atleast my main two theories as to why there is Origin metal found throughout the land of Aionios. Im always welcome to contradictions/counterpoints from other people though! And, as for the whole "Containing souls" portion... The origin metal outside of Aionos, however, is a bit harder to pinpoint, being able to hold the souls of every living being, as you said. Though, if the idea of ether is put into play, we could maybe surmise that all the metal does is just holds the ether of each being, similarly to how the Core Crystals hold their own data. And, maybe the metal is keeping the data in a way that prevents it from being intertwined fully, (possibly through a coding difference, or some trinity processor malarkey or something?) This could even work similarly to how Mechons can store ether inside of them, the metal of Origin (The half from Bionis) could easily be designed to incorporate that design element. Thusly, this wouldn't particularly need to be a retcon, rather it would just be under-elaborated upon. Honestly though, it is entirely possible I am just grasping at straws here. I don't know if I have any semblance of being correct, but it really doesn't matter. In the end, this is just to get people thinking, maybe have them create their own ideas for this topic. Either way, thank you for reading this, any of you guys. I don't have many xenoblade friends so this is my way of getting my xenoblade energy out there! :P
40:00 Regarding A's Gender, here's what I think is happening: I think this version of A we're seeing is the "female persona" that Alvis inhabits. Ontos, as a core processor, had no reason to exist as a human when first conceived prior to Klaus resetting the universe. As the game explains, Ontos is fed data from the Logos and Pneuma cores, which Rex explains that Ontos stands "in-between", containing both female and male data (in the same way Logos and Pneuma as the Masterblades contain the data of all blade cores). The way I see it, is that Alvis as a character does in fact NOT have a gender identity, but is able to exist in a physical form by using the biological data sent from the Pneuma and Logos cores. When A/Alpha split into two cores, Alpha inherited the male data (which is why they continuously refer to him as he/him), and A inherited the female data. So in a sense, A, a.k.a Alvis, inherits a female body, but has no established gender identity as an individual. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the game never once refers to A specifically as they/them/ or she/her, rather, just as "A". But I think that mostly boils down to the fact that the game never NEEDS to refer to A in the 3rd person since A is always either present in a scene, or needs their name stated once in a conversation to establish that's who a character is talking about. At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters that much since I doubt Alvis/A will come back in any form or fashion in the future, but I do kinda wish it was explained a bit more intricately than they did since there's like a million different ways to interpret this whole thing lmao
25:32 "Shulk is kind of dumb. Like, he did not recognize Earth as a planet." Didn't...didn't you yourself come up with the theory that the first game was set in a pocket dimension, which ultimately turned out to be true? How would he know what a planet is?
I really don't like the idea of there being other pocket dimensions created by Klaus. I feel like it would mess with the ideas of the 1 and 2 worlds being made of opposite kinds of matter, which parallels the current theory of how our own universe began, with matter and anti-matter. Not to mention it being true would bring up even more questions that only complicate this already dense, complex plot that I feel like 3 was already failing to cover enough of. So adding more to it would only lead to more things slipping through the cracks and going unexplained.
The idea that Lora and Jin invented the idea of Driver and Blade sharing a weapon is absolutely a retcon; they only included that retroactively, to explain why there was a new combat system. If the Torna story appeared where it was originally planned in 2, it would not have been a thing.
A+ video as always. Also yeah I was so annoyed that people on the internet were just like "WOO SAGA IS CANON" without spoiler warnings or anything within days of FR coming out! I hadn't had time to play it yet!!
Having the worlds be made of different types of matter is kind of a hard thing to say is a retcon or not, when it is a physics concept. So unless we learn about some very specific symmetry breaking properties of quarks, which are irrelevant for anything else, Matter and Antimatter are impossible to differentiate. Though, thinking about it, by the time of 3, they must have found some of those properties, else they wouldn‘t have ever noticed, that their universes are going to annihilate each other. Wait, is this, what the other colours mean, Matter or Antimatter? That would also explain, why no Annihilation between XC1 and XCX (presuming the telethia came from FC to X), 1 and X have the same type of matter.
46:36 I would take issue with that since Saga from what I’ve heard is way too wacky and hard to wrap your head around to expect Blade fans to play Saga remasters before Blade 4. I feel like some fans have gotten too wrapped up into how Saga and Blade connect (Gears is more self-contained and simpler to understand) and that one of those fans is Takahashi
In terms of the pocket dimensions that exist outside of the Xenoblade 1 and 2 pocket dimensions. I think they're not related to Klaus' experiment. Rather, they are pocket dimensions that exist due to the Zohar itself and other events we haven't seen in a plane of existence we don't yet understand.
to me, as long as something doesn't contradict the previous lore its not actually a ret-con, like just cause a bunch of 2 stuff wasn't intended when they made 1 doesn't mean the stuff they added is changing anything thats in the story of 1
No wonder there so many Nopon, Rikki could have a bunch of descendants, and Riku from Xenoblade three, is actually his son somehow even though it’s a1000 years later. But since he’s from the original universe, he doesn’t age and it seems Nopon might have a longer lifespan in humans. And they multiply like ants so they could have so many kids. well they’re part bird so it makes sense.
I feel like pocket dimension isn’t the right term I would use. They explain they are full on universes and the word world in Japanese can also mean universes. Add on that when the universal creation events are shown, they are shown as being far more than a small pocket of space but a larger effect which is more explicit at the end of Xenoblade 1. So while they are sealed worlds, it would mean that the world in Xenoblade one was literally an infinite ocean with the two Titans being the only sources of life. They also go out of there way in dialogue to really get across just how massive the worlds are in Xenoblade. So pocket dimensions wouldn’t be what I would call it, but rather its own sealed off multiverse that was created by Klaus
22:00 are all these things really retcons though. If they are obviously like you said I’m on board for it. But also as you said it doesn’t ‘change’ anything. It just adds more to it. And unless I misheard you, it doesn’t change the lore either. It just changes what people THOUGHT was the lore but was never confirmed
If X is the Kevesi side of those two world than imagine if they made a sequel to X featuring the Agnian side of those 2 worlds called Xenoblade Chronicles Y. Something cool like that idk.
Cuz I know the developers plan this out ever since Xeno gears while the Creator anyway, it's supposed to be six main games, originally bought the Creator had to change it cuz he only could make three games at first and he finally was able to make the final three and add games to it. Cuz I think this is the timeline they would go with but might change it over time. Xenoblade Chronicles 1-3(2XXX- 4XXX) now in the first two games the conduit/ Zohar disappeared and reappeared in normal space and the rest of the universe but it seems to be able to split itself into places cuz it was on Earth, it was on that ship and look completely different it was red until a creature came out of it kill crew. But it was also inside the pocket dimension and then left meaning it can manipulate space and time and appear at any moment it wants and Drawn to humanity to see what they would. My theory is God/ U-DO controls the Zohar/ conduit and created three copies of it to observe Humanity to see what they would do and I don't think humans noticed we know it's because where the audience but I don't think the other humans notice there were three of them. Cuz even though the emulators were created 4,000 years later even though they're copies they're extremely powerful so three copies of it would not be surprising but I don't think Humanity made them though. Xeno Saga 1 - 3 (4XXX- 10,000) pretty much the events of the Zohar emulators and the real causing all sorts of havoc in the rest of the universe pretty much in the third game a giant gnosis destroys most of the Galaxy Federation and other groups probably killing trillions of people cutting off the surviving planets for probably a very long time. Cuz I know Shion, Kosmos survive and ReDiscover Earth which is actually Xenoblade 3 Earth when it's been a recombined become a new Earth. Pretty much Xeno gears,(4XXX - 10,000) the start of the cutscene when the ship was destroyed by that creature that came from the Zohar the red one it happened exactly the same time as Xeno Saga episode 1 it happened exactly at the same moment. And the creator of the series did this on purpose to connect both games both old and new cuz it's a part of the original plan. Now Xenoblade Chronicles X it's going to need major explaining( 4 billion years) pretty much at the start of the game the narrator said they've been on Earth for 4 billion years which is a secondary Earth that humans from the coalition government the ones that started the entire Exodus plan back in the 21st century, and sent humans to different planets it's radio broadcast made that perfectly clear they wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't important. And the original coalition government left Earth and found another Earth-like planet cuz when the main character was being explained about how Earth was destroyed I saw two moons in the cutscene they were put there on purpose, remember they planned this out from the very beginning to connect all the games. Pretty much the Phantoms and their spaceship are pretty remnants from origin because origin would still exist but it might have changed over time creating mechanical life forms and for some reason they want to invade Earth 2, now the Ganglion, aliens mention the great one who is probably the architect which is a religion that's been passed down for billions of years cuz all the aliens are actually descendants of the Samaritans( humans and homhom from Xenoblade 1 - 3,) and not just humans the monsters that used to be on the original Earth. Urarayans ( the blue scale people) could have evolved into the squid looking lady from the game, and their current leader but the Giants Stinger coming out of his back could also be related to a monster that evolved after billions of years,Prone could have evolved from a pig monster, the Cat aliens could have evolved from the Gormatte( cat people), that giant aliens that looks ape like could have evolved from a certain giant ape big Gonzalez😅😅😅😅😅 now that elf looking alien could have evolved from actual humans after billions of years and have pointy ears, and Elma could also be a descendant of a blade or human but evolved over time into a new species, L who is a native of Mira could be related to both humans and Blades but evolved into a different species from Elma, pretty much all the aliens are actually native to the original Earth called Mira😮😮😮😮😮 but they left the planet billions of years ago but it seems aliens have been on the planet before but forgotten their history. Mira is the original Earth, but after 4 billion years a lot of things could have happened like Xenoblade Saga 4( probably cause a lot of havoc for Earth since it goes through a lot of space and time anomalies and those moons that appear all over the planet might be moons from different time periods or different planets me a lot of crazy things happen to the planet after 4 billion years) my name new game hasn't been made yet I don't even know the official name yet but I'm mostly made up a name. Or Xenoblade X is another pocket dimension again all I have to do is sit back and watch pretty much all the games are connected that's going to be a lot of rewriting from some of the Lord though.
I have theory that unseen pocket dimensions merged into one 4 billion years later, in the main Universe. To clarify Xenoblade X take place 4 billions of after Xenoblade 3. Earth 2 is where Coalition government, went to another Earth which is similar to the original Earth and renamed it Earth after it disappeared for 4,000 years also they were probably cut off from the Galaxy Federation because of the giant gnosis that destroyed half of the that were colonized which was 500,000 planets. And then 4 billions, later earth is destroyed by Ganglion and phantoms( Remants of Origin) accidentally blew up Earth 2 and as I mentioned before there were two moons in cutscene. Mira original Earth merged with unseen potchet dimensions which side effect of Earth being split into, remerged, and the other pocket Dimensions merging with it creating Mira I think Xenoblade 4 might be a side effect of multiple pocket Dimensions merging into Mira since it has multiple moons which are from multiple versions of Earth merged into one. But this is just a theory. Because remember there used to be other pocket dimensions so another Earth would not be surprising it could be a side effect of the Zohar affecting space and time.Mira has multiple cultures on the planet on each continent which represents a pocket dimension and the moons are just from other Earths. And all the aliens are descendants of humans and monsters from those pocket dimensions but they forgotten their history. now the ganglion remember the architect and call him the great one and the samarians are humans from the original Earth and I think some of them left Earth Mira Billions of years age. Ganglion aliens remember some History of architect / great One and we're jealous of the original humans cuz something tells me that the there was probably a war on the original Earth between the normal humans and the other human races and this Grudge has been going around for billions of years but that's mostly just a theory. Main point is Humans and Monsters on Xenoblade 1-3 are their ancestors, most of Ganglion and aliens. And to clarify Mira might be a combination of pocket dimensions, that materialize into the rest of the universe. And the earth 2 that was destroyed , it’s just another earth. Takes place billions of fears in the future.
Adding new information isn’t a retcon though, even if it contradicts things that people ASSUMED before. Even if the writers thought about them in a second moment, it still isn’t a retcon.
Torna does have some retcons actually. They’re just a lot subtler, namely that flashback in the base game of 2 where Lora and Haze are sparring with Mythra and Addam. The scene was positioned in a slightly different spot in the camp in the original cutscene vs the Torna version, and obviously Addam doesn’t have the cloak here outside of his introduction. Those are a lot more minor retcons but they are still retcons, modifying the original scene
Also I believe in the base game it’s stated that Mythra didn’t kill the Tornan Titan and it was Amalthus actually, but she very much did kill it during the battle as seen in Torna. That just might be a misunderstanding of the base game on my part tho.
Current hypothesis for Origin metal being so damn good and also being able to store souls: It's an alloy of Mechonis metal (whatever that's made of) and Core Crystals. Much like how you make Steel by putting Carbon, a non-metal, into Iron, a metal, I hypothesize that Origin Metal was infused with Core Crystal particles in order to make it conducive to Ether, and the actual Core Crystals inside of itself, thus making it possible to "yoink" all the souls of the people into itself as the worlds collide and annihilate. You did say that 2 didn't really have a "super material" like Mechon metal, but... Core Crystals kinda are that? They're the key to literally every aspect of the plot and worldbuilding, so... Yeah? With this, I propose a (silly) nickname for Origin Metal: "Mechore Steel". 😁
Also also I just realized something. The Telethia flying into the Fog King and destroying it was probably meant to foreshadow the main issue of 3, with the worlds colliding and canceling each other out. That Telethia probably sacrificed itself by colliding with the Fog King in such a way that they both just... blipped out of existence.
...Why do the Telethias keep getting sadder
That makes too much sense wait.
I thought that was the telethia in X?
Damn 😪
@@EdElric15652000x isnt really relevant to xc3. Mira still exists as it is, only xc1 and xc2 fused
@@EdElric15652000 The rift is the XB2 universe. Also X has references to the events of the first game as legends pased on by the nopon.
BABE WAKE UP, NEW LUXIN VID
32:45 I think the implication behind Origin metal is that it was originally ordinary metal from Bionis/Mechonis/Alrest (possibly steel, if Riku's explanation of the creation of Lucky 7 is accurate), and only has the power it does inside Aionios. In the base game Nia states Lucky 7 has the strength it does because it is "external to the flow", and A and Riku reveal in Future Redeemed that it is connected to the souls within Origin.
Basically, Origin metal is linked to the souls of everyone stored in Origin, and is able to cut through the false world their fear of the unknown created. As something that exists outside of Moebius's world, they have no control over it.
Thank you, I've felt like this was the easiest explanation for origin metal since 3 dropped yet I've seen almost no one else come to this conclusion
Wait, so that implies Lucky Seven is just a sword in the normal world. So when Noah throws it in the water at the end, who cares it's just a sword now
@@LilybeeTVthat's where the concept of symbolism comes into play
@@LilybeeTV well if u think about it, even in aionios if it didn't contain souls or connected to origin, it's quite literally just the sharpest tool in the shed. It's made from arguably the strongest metal so it's just a blade that can inherently cut thru most things then add it being empowered further allowing it to cut through the reality of moebius.
@@LilybeeTV There's still Pneuma and Logos inside it tho.
While I understand that some may have wanted Xenoblade 1 to stand alone as its own game, I generally feel that Monolith Soft did retcons right. They did it in a way that benefitted the franchise and, to me, made XC1 even more interesting retroactively.
Anyway, on to watching the video since I only really know of two retcons, lol.
I can't remember where exactly I found it, but I remember seeing a snippet of an interview early on in 1's history where Takahashi was told about how neatly self-enclosed 1 is to the point that there doesn't seem like anything left to follow up on. I'm paraphrasing but his response was "Oh really? ;-)" and that he likes to deliberately leave a few things open at the end of his stories so that there's room for a sequel. Meaning he was ready to continue the story of 1 from the getgo.
@@fenix0seraph There certainly was room left for a sequel, I personally always knew. Shulk's new world(which I would like to call "New earth", but that conflicts with the end of FR now) was completely unexplored, which is material for a new game in its own right, just maybe a few inuniverse generations later. And Shulk wished for a world with no gods instead of one that definitively does not need them...which is a thing they actually used as a basis of XC3, but the implementation of that is kinda scuffed.
The point I see tho is that there is a diffrence between using room left for a sequel and just ripping room open, even if it leaves the preexisting story with a flesh wound that won't heal because the space is now filled with matter that clearly was not meant to be there.
@@lpfan4491still think Mira is that planet or just a pocket universe where earth(old miltia) went. Not like the stories are connected, but the plots are similar in that sense.
Many people fell in love with Xc1 because on it own still holds up, and despite people loving 2 and 3, many felt that the lighting in the bottle that Xc1 had was not in those games.
@@zetamangads That's pretty much where I stand. I still love Torna, Xenoblade 3, and Future Redeemed but to me they never quite reached the highs and overall package of Xenoblade 1 for me. So although there's retcons and we see the fates of XC1 characters in later installments I'll just remember Xenoblade 1 as it's own standalone thing without paying much mind to anything after that I feel diminishes everything I love about it.
33:50 in Xenoblade 2 the stuff that made the world tree is said be very durable and able to stand the harsh effects of time and remain in pristine condition unlike the stuff that Elysium was built on
Honestly always interpreted the different Birth of a Universe cutscenes outside of being a retcon being how Zanza viewed it in his mind vs. how the Architect viewed it in his mind. One very egotistical and one very mournful and reflected. And with Alvis only appearing in 1's world after a set amount of time, it's possible they didn't have the full picture anyways
For me, the Birth of a Universe scene in XC1 was Alvis summing it up almost like a black box. It knew some of the information being sent through and could understand it, but it wasn't able to get the fine details due to a lack of information.
It's also worth pointing out that the Trinity Processor wasn't it's own person as of the experiment. It was essentially a trio of CPUs discussing how to use a god-like power source with no real thoughts of their own, and that's especially the case for Ontos. They didn't really care for human specifics, rather the information being sent through the Low Orbit Stations.
The pov of playing God vs the pov of someone who didn't forget why and what led to it... and regrets trying to control everyone's futures without them getting a choice.
@@ShadowSkyX yeah essentially. The different sides of him only saw the parts they wanted to see(more so in the case of Zanza)
Nope sorry all that goes out the window when you have literally other assistant people in the room with klaus with a space window then in Xenoblade 2 it’s just him and her and the whole I wish to be a god yet him say I want humanity’s to survive BULLSHiIIiIiII
Sorry not going to hear that laziness excuse that it was just point of view
Now with that retcon the two moments of klaus of xeno 1 and Xeno 2 now feel like two different Damn timelines of events ugh 😑
Like honestly i understand things being added to the lore to give more of a explanation and all but Over retroactively explaining it to the point the original end we know now makes no sense HOW DO YOU F@@@ that up?!!!🤨 especially when it’s the SAME DIRECTOR NO EXCUSES 😡😒
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003thats literally how unreliable narrators with different perspectives works. Zanza remembered other people because he wanted an audience to see him ascend to godhood, while the Architect only remembered the most relevant details that led to his mistake.
The origin concept totally needs MUCH more explanation. I'm ok with the vagueness of it just for the sake of letting peoples imagination run wild, but if Monolithsoft can build any future plot out of it, I am all for it.
Hopefully in a sequel game or canon spin-off.
i still feel like i know nothing and understand nothing about origin ;-;
Origin is soft sci-fi rather than hard sci-fi, the focus is on what it does to the characters and world, and not how. And that is fine, it is a very common brench of sci-fi. Maybe with the X universe they will incline a bit more to hard sci-fi but even that still expect it to be more of science fantasy than pure sci-fi, and that is the setting they prefer.
@@joebilly3719 this explanation is satisfying enough for me
@Zorgot. I feel like it's a subject that needs to sit for awhile for it all to sink in, and maybe you need to be a bit older to eventually understand it.
Alvis didn't show the full context to Shulk of the previous world because time was of the essence due to Bionis collapsing and because even Alvis doesn't have a full picture of the events.
In addition, I remember a lot of people believing that the reason the cutscenes were so different was because of perspective. That being the cutscene in XC1 was how Zanza remembered it in his arrogance and hubris. Paraphrasing what Alvis says in the final battle, ‘the power of providence is great, but not unlimited’ likely referring to his connection to the Zohar, in his hubris he likely completely threw away anything that could stand above him. In addition, Zanza was never aware of his other half to begin with, if he was never aware of that who knows how reliable his other memories of the old world were
I definitely think the difference is intentional. It reminds me of Xenogears Perfect Works, where it describes an important plot point from the game, then says what actually happened was a bit more complicated. Takahashi really likes his unreliable narration and used it liberally - it only looks retconny when the story is spread over multiple games.
How far in to your ass did you have to dig for that explanation?
Around 14:50, that's not depicting the actual universes colliding, just individual particles meeting. It's established by the Chapter 7 infodump and the challenge mode portals that the colors corresponding to each universe are red and blue, whereas going off of Keves and Agnus's color schemes, yellow and blue at least represent the ether particles from each universe, if not all their matter. That scene also contains those transparent hexagons that universally represent shields or barriers in the series, here representing Origin's attempts to keep the particles separated. The immediate cut to an annihilation event hollowing out Uraya implies these specific particles meeting caused that annihilation, but it may also just be alluding to annihilation events in general being caused by these collisions.
Yeah, also in future redeemed when Shulk talks about the annihilation events they use that shot
@koj30 did the scene not play during a mio and noah meeting?
It played right before the annihilation of the Urayan Mountains
Yeah this
Shhhhhhh, just let him have this
43:10 My understanding of this is that A/lvis didn’t foresee Aionios. A says ‘all I see is what the flow encompasses’. Since Aionios isn’t part of the flow of time, A/lvis couldn’t foresee it.
Technically Torna does retcon some minor visuals. Clearly they didn't have all the models ready, so just using the wastelands of Temperantia as a place holder was easier than deciding on what they wanted locations like Aletta to look like. Most importantly of all those minor changes was changing Addam's eyes from blue to gold because the color of his eyes have an impact on the plot.
It's almost surprising how few retcons there are with how much the base game talks about the Aegis War. It just manages to leave enough room for new interpretations, such as Mythra having little involvement up until the very end of it.
A. Also Jin's sword is on Lora's back in the base game cutscene of them meeting young Mik, implying Lora is the one using it like how driver/blade pairs work in base XC2
When were addam's eyes shown in base game?
@@runaway74when rex talks to addam in the dream of elysium
Eh, idk. I still think the "truth" is supposed to be more exciting and emotionally gripping and not less, unless the point of the story was that people were overselling the events in question. Torna, while a neat expansion where it works, does not exactly allow for more interpretations, it just replaces the most logical interpretation with something majorly downscaled that not at all fits all the pain of the past regarding Mythra that is showcased by the entire world in XC2. Also kinda turns the entirety of the narrative into the Torna-meme of everyone bullying Mythra for no reason.
@@lpfan4491 I mean, you kind of already get that when you get a heart to heart (I'm pretty sure it was) of Mythra, Zeke, and I think Nia. Where Mythra points out how Addam didn't like spicy foods at all, like the stories Zeke seems to be hearing is trying to paint Addam as. Which was destroying this "manly" image Zeke had of Addam in his head.
About the radio and the potential links with Xenogears and Xenosaga, that was already the case in Xenoblade 2. The artbook of Xenoblade 2 states that KOS-MOS Re was designed by Shion and Allen. These must come from the same universe as the Dimitri Yuriev mentionned by the radio.
The fact KOS-MOS was no DLC Blade proves she was intended to be fully canon and no simple Easter egg.
@@Movel0 Even if Elma is DLC only and does not appear in the Xenoblade 3 universe, she is canon in my heart. 🥲
I think that the two worlds recombining would release the same Conduit energy that initially split them (conservation of energy), and that would explain why Origin would work: its recycling the leftover reality warping power from the Conduit.
The collision between different types of matter also releases an insane amount of energy, so maybe they used some of that too. When the worlds combined and both halves of Origin phased into each other and "clicked", maybe an antimatter engine of sorts started up, and it booted up Origin
@UltimaPhoenix-dx3kt The amount of energy released in annihilation can only be equal to the matter. So conservation of energy. As matter is just a form of energy (e=mc²)
25:30 His world is only the two titans and an endless ocean. Shulk would have never seen or heard of a planet before this.
Shulk isn't stupid for not recognizing Earth as a planet, he's just ignorant. If we were a space fairing species we'd probably have the same exact reactions to uncharted planets.
26:10 I feel like you're being a liiiiiittle harsh on Shulk here. Like, Homs technology is amazingly advanced for such a struggling species (see: floating transports, healing rifles). That one NPC in Colony 9 who says that the ocean around the titans is infinite and flat mentions, I believe, that math says it should curve after a certain point, like a planet, but it doesn't. You said it yourself, Xenoblade 1 takes place in a pocket dimension. It's not that Shulk doesn't recognize a planet - he straight up doesn't know what they are because they simply don't exist in his world. Can you imagine trying to explain everything we know about the sun to someone who has lived underground all their lives? Heck, the sun and stars over Bionis and Mechonis aren't actual sun and stars! They're balls of ether in the sky that brighten or dim or fall depending on the conditions. Their universe just works differently from Earth's. That's not Shulk's fault.
Thank you papa Lux, for coming back with the milk
Oh there he goes
I think it’s kinda neat when you look back on xenoblade 1 with the idea that ontos is a part of the trinity processor as essentially an arbiter of power, you start to notice that alvis is present in quite a few “trinities” like you can consider him, zanza and meyneth a trinity, the disciple trinity and also at the end of the game with him shulk and zanza sort of being one too. Maybe I was the only one ever confused by this but I never got the logic behind the providence of the universe limiting zanzas power here at the end of all things but viewing it as Alvis using his position as an arbiter to err on the side of shulk and his friends’ desires to be rid of zanza really helped me in finally solidly understanding or having an interpretation on how his power works
ngl im calling bs on the galea one. in the cutscene shulk literally says "thats meyneth" and she has the same face and voice actor. its very obviously meant to be who meyneth was. perhaps they were leaving that open for potential open sequel reasons but im not sure
About Origin.
Pretty much thinking that it is pretty much a man-made Zohar/Conduit.
When creating Origin, it didn't have any major power beyond the Ontos/Pneuma Core powering its halves, the technology/information inside of the cores allowing the people in each world (once getting informed about the upcoming situation) to create and back-up the souls of people inside of core crystals.
The Zohar is a gateway to the Imaginary Number Domain, the place of the Dead Collective Unconscious. So Origin being a massive collection of Souls in one spot pretty much is dragging the Imaginary Number Domain into the Primary Number Domain, pretty much being a Zohar/Conduit in its own right.
Heck, Z and Moebius (and the whole conflict in XBC3/Future Redeemed) is pretty Humanity's "Living Collective Unconscious" (IE the collective consciousness of all the souls living on Earth's 2 divided halves) inside of Origin creating Aionios as a realm to express themselves in.
So pretty much Origin is a Zohar/Conduit-Emulator via brute force rather than being hooked into the actual Zohar/Conduit.
As for Origin Metal, it was stated that Origin Metal "Exists outside the flow" of Aionios. Which, due to Aionios being a sort of conceptual space either in the Imaginary Number Domain, or between it and the Real Number Domain, would make sense as Origin Metal was made outside of Origin. So Origin metal could just be an alloy obtainable in either world that would be, while strong and levitatable, not particularly special. But inside of the conceptual space of Aionios, has power not only due to being a material outside of Origin (as in not created from it), but also due to being part of Origin with that Collective Unconsciousness inside of it.
I wonder if we're not over thinking it. In other xeno games the Zohar is the source of all Ether. In Xenoblade, the two worlds are permeated by it due to the conduits use in their creation. Since the Ether is already there, is the Zohar really necessary to continue powering Origin?
Edit: so many typos
I've been saying that Alvis before XB2 was a retcon and was probably a HAl 9000 type computer before being retconned into a part of the Trinity Processor (which is a bit different than an administrative computer like HAL 9000, as Ontos only does stuff with the Conduit and the other two cores, and people presumably control stuff on Rhadamanthus).
Im not an Alvis Ontos denier, its just that he was a bit different from what he is now.
Yeah it was definitely a retcon. I don't think it was a bad one though. Gives more depth to his character even if retroactively
I was also of the opinion that Alvis was a HAL.
I was convinced the entirety of Xenoblade 1 was happening in a computer simulation. Inside Alvis basically.
Heck, the only way him calling himself "Monado" would logically work is if that is his name as a blade(Minus that his name as a Blade would be Alvis then, or else that name makes no sense in this explanation, because even Zanza calls him that), like how Malos was awakened from the Logos-core. The conceptual issue being that this is beyond unlikely because they pretty much established that the event that the Ontos-core vanished at was nearly without a doubt the XC1-creation event and that would mean the core was never refunctioned into an admin of the blade system like the other two were. I think FR wants to fix this by saying Alvis was specifically created by Klaus somehow, but that just makes it infinitely more messy.
@@lpfan4491I just assume him calling himself Monado means that Monado is part of him the same way Malos's monado is. There is no monado without Alvis
No, it really isn't when you realize who Alvis has been with.
Alvis, Dickson, Lorithea. Dickson said "of the Trinity", during his reveal, and that over time showing he was working with Lorithea, and then at the end with Alvis, the whole time.
In tandem of creating the world, and I guess keeping it balanced, it's Zanza, Meyneth, and Alvis. Even all their swords lined up together in a triangle at the end.
Even Future Redeemed points this out, with how Alvis doesn't do anything without there being others, most of the time.
So with that, you thought wrong, and Alvis is, and always has been, a trinity core processor. Even in the beginning.
31:33 I don't remember where in 3 I heard it, but I remember hearing something about Origin getting the energy needed to recreate the universes from the light generate by annihilation events. It make sense, considering a matter-antimatter collision would convert 100% of its mass into energy (mostly in the form of light), which Origin could just convert back into the original objects as either all matter or all antimatter. I'd imagine something about its total control over Aionios is what allows it to collect that light without literal solar panels.
You did not hear this. You heard how the energies released during Annihilation Events and the energies of Origin's powers are vaguely similar in nature. You did not hear that Origin is powered by Annihilation Events; that would be the physics defying Keves Castle laser.
32:20 Matter and antimatter colliding would probably supply enough energy for Origin to boot up after the worlds merged.
The mentions of things like the pocket dimensions always being the plan/intent reminds me of something from the Monado Files.
In the short story that helps explain how Fiora got her body back, a portion of it mentions how Shulk wants to build Monado replicas for everyone in the colonies for protection while they go fight the final threats.
The Monado REX in Future Connected is definitely partly intended to be a good nod to Shulk's intent to make monado replicas himself, albeit in collaboration with Machina.
It’s always a good day when you get to listen to Luxin talk about xenoblade for 45mins!
Monolith soft really has been playing 5d chess for years now.
I don't think Origin metal is intrinsically special, I think it has the power it does because of the same diamond-cutting-diamond thing you mentioned earlier. As the components of Origin, it's the base building block that the world of Aionios was generated from, and holds unique powers within the confines of that zone. Take it out or put it on Bionis and Alrest and it's just generic metal that Shulk and Tora agreed was strong enough to be worth building a world-saving Ark out of.
I will say that my perspective is the Radio has the _potential_ to be a retcon, but _isn't_ one *_yet._* _If_ Monolithsoft remakes Xenosaga and makes it canon in Xenoblade, then they would become retcons. If instead they decide to "retell" the story of Xenosaga as a distinct game (say "Xenoblade Saga"), then they would _not_ be retcons since it would be a distinct work from the original.
I mean ironically the retcon to fit xenosaga in is actually decently easy to do cause u have a lot of time frame u can insert shit in and other stuff Xd
I keep going back and forth on how I feel about the radio scene. On one hand it was fun and kind of heart warming to watch all the long time xeno fans absolutely pop off online. On the other, was literally not paying attention to anything Na’el was saying because I was trying to hear the radio, and plot wise that’s what actually mattered.
but the game has theatre mode, like, we can easily rewatch the cutscene and pay attention to the desired element.
Yeah same lol, at the time I was playing Xenogears and I was thinking how similar the things the radio was saying to Xenogears (mostly the people leaving Earth on ships, though said in Perfect Works), turns out it was a Xenosaga reference
Idk if this was ever mentioned but I'd say the term "Hom" from Xenoblade one is also retconned because everyone in xenoblade 3 is referred to as human just like Xenoblade 2 (minus blades from 2)
It wasn't exactly retconned because nobody within Aionios were aware of Machina, Hom, High Entia, Gormotti, etc. All the endless now and Moebius needed them to know was that they are human in this world.
The expendable soldiers shouldn't be worrying about various races and what-not as that would be counterintuitive to their plans.
I'd say it's less about a retcon but more about the XC3 people not understanding the concept of races or of terms native to XC1. That's why Melia doesn't bring up them both being High Entia to Eunie when Eunie mentions they're the same. In Future Redeemed Shulk could have mentioned they were called Homs back on Bionis but that doesn't really mean much to everyone else so the term is eventually forgotten.
@@sentoworf great explanation. I see that as well.
I like how Hom is close to home.
Or human.
Home is where other humans were.
@@ShadowSkyX homo sapien
Meyneth not being Galea is strange..
Especially since Shulk points out their similarities himself
@@captianblitz Yeah lol
The dates in the titles of many of songs from Xenoblade X are from 2012 and 2013 when the game released in 2015, meaning any of the potential lore in songs such as In The Forest might be retconned in the future due to later changes in the story between the songs being made and the game releasing
Meineth being Galea was somewhat clear in the main game. It was implied but I think the avg mind would conclude that after the ending scene.
hum... that idea of too many pocket universes may not be true as now that it's confirmed that Klaus' original universe is the same as Xenosaga, when XC3 DLC merge 2 pocket dimensions, earth was back to the original state. That action probably destroied any other pocket dimension that could be created because Klaus so Mira going bye bye anyway. If you consider pocket dimensions was about the size of earth itself, anything outside that reagion on space could get in including light. So the sky in XC1 and XC2 is actualy the outside, the Xenosaga universe.
I agree with Xenoblade X. If a port to that game come ever to exist then it should have the missing content. It's obvious that game was planned as a game as a service type. They tried to release a massive game that would receave massive updates. thus the lv60 cap. At least they need to end the game's main story. It wouldn't be that dificult to realocate things to make a proper main story I think...
Milton was kind of a retcon in Torna. It was a little weird Mythra never mentioning him in the main game. Maybe it was too painful for her.
Yea idk if it's too weird she doesn't mention it given that learning of his death basically pushed her over the edge and creating pyra so the too painful to talk about seems like the obvious reason.
"Or have you forgotten what you did before implanting your core crystal?" -mikail
Flashback shows amalthous implanting a core crystal into a gormotti boy while mik looks on. Unfortunately I can't tell if this model is unique or reused. Mik would easily let it happen if it was supposed to be milton and amalthous assured him he could bring him back to life. Note that bringing this up is the angriest we ever see mik get. I think the implication is that it's supposed to be milton in the flashback.
Of course mythra wouldn't mention him. He's directly tied to her trauma and she's in no way ready to tell the details and probably never will be able to.
9:23 I think this is really interesting, because in one of the xenoblade 2 artbooks it shows concept art for some of the blade weapons and it almost looks like the blade's were intended to have two different forms/attacks, almost making it like switching between two weapons. This can kinda be seen with the shield hammer being a shield and a hammer more literally originally. Also the concept of whip swords, being able to change between whip and sword. It even looks like the Aegis blade may have been a n energy canon as well. So I think its interesting that this idea was intended for 1, used in X, and then maybe intended for 2 as well before being scrapped
Man, its great to have another Luxin Xeno video. Although the future of the franchise is kind of unknown right now, It's great to digest all 3 games across a span of 11/13 years.
The scenes and music makes me so nostalgic and I'm reminded the love I have for the games. Thank you, Luxin!
I have a theory that origin metal is actually just the same material the mechonis was made of. Origin and N’s sword of the end are both black in color, which is very similar to the color of the mechonis. The metal the mechonis was made of could only be cut through using a monado or a weapon made of machina technology, likely of the same material. Assuming flame clocks are made using origin metal, that explains why only monados and origin metal weapons can damage them. This would also make sense for origin metal being able to contain people’s souls/memories, because the mechonis was a sort of vessel for Meyneth’s soul.
They literally say Origin is the original ferronis. So you're right Origin metal is most likely the leftovers of the Mechonis.
@@darkraioxxx Oh yeah I forgot about that, thanks for bringing it up
25:32 ofc Shulk thought it was a ball of water. They have no concepts of planets because they live in a pocket dimension on a neverending flat plane. Shulk isnt dumb for not understanding a concept from a completely other dimension with no basis in his own.
When they eventually reveal that nopon created the Zohar to take over the universe and that’s why they are in every game I’m gonna laugh so hard
Also I like to think Xenoblade 1 birth of the universe is how Zanza remembers it, and Xenoblade 2 is how Klaus remembers it
the radio: exists,
everyone (including Luxin): "hoo, boy, what does it mean?!"
me: "the butter cookies lookin' real tasty like (and I've seen them in animes, too)" priorities, am I right? :D
Although its minor, what about the visual retcons in 1DE? Alvis's key being changed being the most prominent. Those were a change to 1.
That one was to tie in the next stories, I suppose. Alvis is Ontos was broken by the issue that he didn't have an Aegis Core Crystal, so in the "Definitive Edition", they made sure he had one.
Curiously, A also refers to ONTOS as male when A explains how Alpha came to be: "Ontos proclaimed himself Alpha and chose to leave for a new world."
I need Xenoblade X to get tied into the main series Luxin... don't give me hope.
Yeah I guess when you're talking about the shonen stuff not being planned yet, imo something that wasnt originally planned for a story being added in during the writing process doesnt count as a retcon. Imo for an ongoing series a retcon would only be something that directly contradicts something that has already been established previously.
OH BOY FILM VIDEO FROM LUX HERE WE GO
i always thought the yellow and blue balls coming together were particles or atoms coming together, and then the next scene showing an annihilation event right after, and not the whole universes. but the different depictions did throw me off a bit. i like consistency, so visually changing up how we see things confuses me a bit lol
You thought that because that's exactly what is being shown. He's making things up.
one thing you mention is Ontos going dormant which isn't what happens what happens is Alvis goes off like the end of Xenoblade 1 says but his personality eventually goes dormant without his connection to Klaus reverting back into his machine like state being Alpha, then Alpha sends his core to Shulk(like how Alpha gives his core to Na'el in FR) so he and the others can create Origin to set up his plan to create Aionios so that the new Life for his new world can be born
so technically this isn't changing what happened to Alvis at the end of 1, but is adding on to it
I don't know if this counts as a retcon, but somewhere in base game ( i belive morytha) jin says that humans and blades used to live togheter in old torna, but when you actually play torna, there is like, 2 blade npcs.
Noticed this as well. Its like Torna wasnt anything special or the meaning was lost.
He was referring to the scene with the Torna titan's "womb" room that you also see in Torna. The Tornans were specifically aware of life cycle between Blades and Titans and cherished it. Many things happening in Torna "taught" Jin about humans and Blades cohexisting peacefully, only for Amalthus to ruin everything.
My head cannon about Lin’s hair pins is that Xenoblade 1 is a video game in the X universe and she played it before earth was destroyed and was a fan so she made the pins
Cool idea but how does that explain endbringer telethea
Maybe Xenoblade is just Lin's fanfiction the whole time
I really appreciate the definition and explanation you gave about the term "retcon" at the start, as a non native speaker it was something that I could not understand until you explained it that way.
Could it be that the Klaus experiment that caused Xenoblade 1's world to be formed in a pocket dimension and it's merge with Alrest is the reason why Earth/ Lost Jerusalem cannot be located in xenosaga? I've always thought about this, but with this video saying 1's world as a pocket dimension could imply that Klaus' experiment had not only recreated a new universe (as klaus said), but also created a pocket dimension that could be separate from the dimension U-DO and other form of beings that could be behind the conduit/ Zohar?
Well, the original lore for saga, which I believe was presented as _theory_ not necessarily proven fact, was that Lost Jerusalem had somehow been shrunk to the plank scale. However, if we assume the pocket universe containing it's remnants is essentially a Klein bottle or something similar using Xenosaga cosmology, both the shrinking and the pocket universes can be true.
But yes, the implications now is that Klaus' experiment is why Lost Jerusalem was lost.
@@badlatency9979if it turns out true, the whole xenosaga to xenoblade (even xenogears) turns out to be perfect work's new interpretatiom of what happens before the events of gears. That'd be amazing.
@@badlatency9979 Isn't the theory that it was to the size of two planks. like how there are two worlds in the blade games.
@@fluxk7506 I'm...not sure, been a while since I delved into every detail of the Saga lore honestly. Maybe?
36:28 it’s worth noting that Alvis’ goodbye from the ending of DE is visually called back by Alpha’s goodbye to Matthew (or maybe it was the original Alvis somehow, since he seemed to have no grudge against Matthew for helping murder him). So Alvis’ words to Shulk about all life walking hand in hand were probably his last words.
36:36 “Moebius and Klaus’ lingering stuff”
Always good to have a new Luxin video!
25:57 I’m of the opinion that the flashback we saw at the start of Chapter 10 was shown in its entirety to Rex before the third sword dusted, which would explain why he has an emotional reaction to Galea’s ID card after killing her (Infernal Guldo)
Hear me out, Xenoblade X takes place after the main trilogy after the reboot of origin, with all races becoming human, as seen in the City. The Earth formed after the reboot of Origin is the same Earth that got destroyed in X. Origin undid Klaus's experiment, and Mira made that undoing all for nothing. Perhaps Mira isn't just a byproduct of Aionios, but rather the last remaining bit of Moebius. Xenoblade X never truly ends, after all. Mira could be purgatory for the undoing of a Klaus's sin. In closing, I don't think X is a separate universe, but rather a follow up to the ending of Future Redeemed.
I thought it was pretty clear they used the remains of the Mechonis and the World Tree to make Origin in each world. Origin’s theme has motifs of the World Tree theme and there are very clear Mechonis-like structures all over Origin
IMO, Alvis/Ontos might indeed have shown Shulk a misremembered version of the experiment. Remember how Elysium looks in the memory of Pyra. Real Elysium has a giant wall with a door next to the tree, while there's no such thing in Pyra's memory version of Elysium. She herself calls it a "half-forgotten memory of what once was". So no, the Aegises/Trinity cores don't have perfect memory. Pyra doesn't and Alvis might also not.
They literaly uses Definitve Editions look to make a whole 4 secondish snibbit cutscene of shulk picking up the ontos core crystal. That really through me off so much.
To explain Orgin metal, here’s my headcanon since I got 0 proof.
The strongest metal we have on earth right now is Steel, which is an alloy. Perhaps Mechonis metal was simply manufactured and purified with pure ether, until it could withstand ether. That is the ONLY thing, besides Monado and Mechonis metal, that seems to damage mechon (see Zord after falling into Ether). A metal strong enough to withstand the blood of the Bionis should be strong enough to destroy a flame clock.
Once again, 100% headcanon, 0 proof, but it’s my only logical explanation for a metal to be stronger than Mechonis Metal.
Cant wait to watch this when i have 47 minutes of spare time
Me: *sees title, remembers Klaus slapping/shoving Galea.*
🤔 The only thing that comes to mind, as a casual, is the key changed into a core Cristal, but that's just a design thingy
You said using light to communicate between dimensions is nonsensical. I personally think it touches on annihilation in physics and its theoretical aspects, especially in quantum mechanics, something that's very theoretical. I'd suggest reading more about this if you want to understand more about the annihilation event.
They had a easy out which would not have required Xenoblade 2 to retcon Xenoblade 1 at all since they went through the trouble of changing hair color in the Klaus scenes based on other science fiction one would have assumed both of those scenes happened in different universes along with Klaus himself in 2 confirming the existence of multiple universes. There is also Takahashi claiming that the story for 3 was considered as a sequel before 2 and also Takahashi claiming 2 had no connections to 1 before launch of 2.
25:33 I mean to be fair, the concept of a planet doesn’t exist in Xenoblade 1, their stars and suns are essentially balls of ether, I personally give shulk a pass for not knowing a concept from a completely different universe
My big theory: The key we've lost refers to Alvis old model having a key and the original plan was to reintroduce the Zohar in X or the follow up of X and what they scratched. At least I do think that at some point it was planned to have X being connected to 1, 2, 3. They could still do it with different universes and all but it wpuld prolly just be a "Yeah this is the same Game series you know" easter egg rather than expanding on them like 2 did.
SPOILER BELOW! DONT LOOK IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO WATCH THE VIDEO!! Question/Idea for Luxin about something mentioned in the video
had a thought about the "merging" and the power source behind origin. what if it was the annihilation itself that powered the processes of origin? like it was literally stated in 3 that 1 and 2 were once whole, seperated, and now OPPOSITE and yearning for each other. i think if they merged it would be like matter and antimatter and that could power Origin. matter and antimatter release 100% of their energy, compared to nuclear which is only like 1-2% usable. so a big enough source of energy to power everything.
I think it’s already shown very clearly in the game itself. Both moebius and ouroboros needs people from two worlds and if they interlink for too long they gonna overheat and annihilate. The power of ouroboros comes from some sort of controlled annihilation effect is super obvious. Besides the ouroboros cores look very similar to the Origin itself.
Also, Xenoblade, one and two during the early 2000s the Zohar activated, causing the entire earth to disappear for thousands of years.
Then it reappeared in normal space thousands of years later, in the 4000s which happens 4000 years later. So the dating system was changed to 4000s.
The Xenosaga takes place 4000 years later, in the late 4000s, which is around the same time as the start of Xenogears.
But because of the radio broadcast it change that , pretty much the ship that left earth in the early 2000s, took the Zohar off of earth, but for some reason it was still on earth and cause to disappear for 4000 years then it reappeared in empty space.
10,000 years later, it reappeared on the planet. It went to on the edge of the Galaxy in other solar system.
Which means the Zohar can be at multiple places at once, even if it was renamed the conduit in Xenoblade . It was on earth, in Xenoblade, and the Earth disappear for 4000 years, then it appeared in empty space Xenosaga, then it appeared on the edge of the galaxy in a different solar system at the same.
Which means the Zohar can be in multiple places at once. It was in three places, even though it wasn’t even on earth, and it just reappeared an empty space by itself. It even changed its form in Xenogears.🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
The Xeno timeline is a bit of a mess, because obviously the devs didn’t play or do research on the previous games. Because I hate to say this, the Xeno is old and they are new people that are making the game, younger people that didn’t play the original or didn’t do enough research.
So there’s gonna be a lot of pretty much wrong information which does happen from time to time when basing a new game off of the old one .
Because sometimes the writers, will forgets things from 20 years back . And new writers didn’t do enough research or didn’t play the game at all because they’re harder to get now even if you work for the company.
You make a point at 32:45 that origin metal is a "miracle material", making it sound as if it's something that cannot exist in the worlds of 1, and had not existed within 2. I would beg to differ, however. Going in order of your points, this is my counter argument
You could argue that "Origin Metal" (inside of the world of Aionios) could just be any normal metal from outside of the worlds (like just any old metal, or even Mechon metal) that has its powers given to it form inside of Aionios due to it being what helped form this stopped world. It would similar to how the Manado is an extension of the Trinity processor, being able to do damage to anything inside of its own world (The Bionis). Plus, we know the trinity processor helped create the pocket dimensions found in 1 and 2, and it is also used to help make the world of origin. That could be why the Sword of Origin, (or the Lucky Seven) is able to cut through any element of the world it resides in, being made of the literal fabric of the world itself.
And we can even explain how Origin metal is found within the world of Aionios this way as well. The idea that the worlds of 1 and 2 were scanned, you can assume any parts of Origin would make their way into the combined world as well. You can assume two things with this,
1: There were scraps of Origin metal taken off of Origin during the collision of worlds, sending them scattered as time froze. This would allow for those small shards to be read as data, split into the world, and cast about. Assuming the impact created hundreds of shards, you can explain away all of the pieces found, and used, throughout Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Alternatively...
2: (Forgive me if I get something incorrect here, I haven't played 3 in a while) When Zed brings Origin into the world of Aionios during the events of the worlds collision, it is possible he created enough of a disturbance within Origin to knock loose shards of it. (Especially when it appears over the center of Aionios during Future Redeemed, with Alpha/Falls onto the previously mentioned land in the ending) This could explain how many parts of Origin are scattered around Aionios, and would give in universe events as to why Origin is found throughout all of the surrounding portions of Aionios.
These are atleast my main two theories as to why there is Origin metal found throughout the land of Aionios. Im always welcome to contradictions/counterpoints from other people though!
And, as for the whole "Containing souls" portion... The origin metal outside of Aionos, however, is a bit harder to pinpoint, being able to hold the souls of every living being, as you said. Though, if the idea of ether is put into play, we could maybe surmise that all the metal does is just holds the ether of each being, similarly to how the Core Crystals hold their own data. And, maybe the metal is keeping the data in a way that prevents it from being intertwined fully, (possibly through a coding difference, or some trinity processor malarkey or something?) This could even work similarly to how Mechons can store ether inside of them, the metal of Origin (The half from Bionis) could easily be designed to incorporate that design element. Thusly, this wouldn't particularly need to be a retcon, rather it would just be under-elaborated upon.
Honestly though, it is entirely possible I am just grasping at straws here. I don't know if I have any semblance of being correct, but it really doesn't matter. In the end, this is just to get people thinking, maybe have them create their own ideas for this topic. Either way, thank you for reading this, any of you guys. I don't have many xenoblade friends so this is my way of getting my xenoblade energy out there! :P
40:00 Regarding A's Gender, here's what I think is happening:
I think this version of A we're seeing is the "female persona" that Alvis inhabits. Ontos, as a core processor, had no reason to exist as a human when first conceived prior to Klaus resetting the universe. As the game explains, Ontos is fed data from the Logos and Pneuma cores, which Rex explains that Ontos stands "in-between", containing both female and male data (in the same way Logos and Pneuma as the Masterblades contain the data of all blade cores). The way I see it, is that Alvis as a character does in fact NOT have a gender identity, but is able to exist in a physical form by using the biological data sent from the Pneuma and Logos cores. When A/Alpha split into two cores, Alpha inherited the male data (which is why they continuously refer to him as he/him), and A inherited the female data. So in a sense, A, a.k.a Alvis, inherits a female body, but has no established gender identity as an individual. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the game never once refers to A specifically as they/them/ or she/her, rather, just as "A". But I think that mostly boils down to the fact that the game never NEEDS to refer to A in the 3rd person since A is always either present in a scene, or needs their name stated once in a conversation to establish that's who a character is talking about.
At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters that much since I doubt Alvis/A will come back in any form or fashion in the future, but I do kinda wish it was explained a bit more intricately than they did since there's like a million different ways to interpret this whole thing lmao
I absolutely agree with this take and thought the same
I still think the Xenoblade X story is going to retconed so it's opening is part of the Klaus experiment and that's what "destroyed the earth"
"..Alvis was effectively a persona"
I see what you did there
25:32
"Shulk is kind of dumb. Like, he did not recognize Earth as a planet."
Didn't...didn't you yourself come up with the theory that the first game was set in a pocket dimension, which ultimately turned out to be true? How would he know what a planet is?
31:19 can you accept the Kevesi trio and Joran moving around without their souls and not apparently knowing about the impending Intersection?
Nia being part of the literal harem isn't much of a retcon. Some people just misunderstood his "I love you, and all you guys!" 😂
I really don't like the idea of there being other pocket dimensions created by Klaus. I feel like it would mess with the ideas of the 1 and 2 worlds being made of opposite kinds of matter, which parallels the current theory of how our own universe began, with matter and anti-matter. Not to mention it being true would bring up even more questions that only complicate this already dense, complex plot that I feel like 3 was already failing to cover enough of. So adding more to it would only lead to more things slipping through the cracks and going unexplained.
Ontos is somewhere between, Alpha is the male half, A is the female half
The idea that Lora and Jin invented the idea of Driver and Blade sharing a weapon is absolutely a retcon; they only included that retroactively, to explain why there was a new combat system. If the Torna story appeared where it was originally planned in 2, it would not have been a thing.
I did not expect to hear: "Shulk is kinda dumb." lmao
A+ video as always. Also yeah I was so annoyed that people on the internet were just like "WOO SAGA IS CANON" without spoiler warnings or anything within days of FR coming out! I hadn't had time to play it yet!!
26:03 That's a very bold assumption, even for you, Mr. Luxin.
Having the worlds be made of different types of matter is kind of a hard thing to say is a retcon or not, when it is a physics concept. So unless we learn about some very specific symmetry breaking properties of quarks, which are irrelevant for anything else, Matter and Antimatter are impossible to differentiate. Though, thinking about it, by the time of 3, they must have found some of those properties, else they wouldn‘t have ever noticed, that their universes are going to annihilate each other.
Wait, is this, what the other colours mean, Matter or Antimatter? That would also explain, why no Annihilation between XC1 and XCX (presuming the telethia came from FC to X), 1 and X have the same type of matter.
Also, light has no anti particle, so them communicating with light makes complete sense.
46:36 I would take issue with that since Saga from what I’ve heard is way too wacky and hard to wrap your head around to expect Blade fans to play Saga remasters before Blade 4.
I feel like some fans have gotten too wrapped up into how Saga and Blade connect (Gears is more self-contained and simpler to understand) and that one of those fans is Takahashi
In terms of the pocket dimensions that exist outside of the Xenoblade 1 and 2 pocket dimensions. I think they're not related to Klaus' experiment. Rather, they are pocket dimensions that exist due to the Zohar itself and other events we haven't seen in a plane of existence we don't yet understand.
Creating Zohar emulators without access to the Zohar itself makes perfect sense when you consider Tora is just that good
to me, as long as something doesn't contradict the previous lore its not actually a ret-con, like just cause a bunch of 2 stuff wasn't intended when they made 1 doesn't mean the stuff they added is changing anything thats in the story of 1
No wonder there so many Nopon, Rikki could have a bunch of descendants, and Riku from Xenoblade three, is actually his son somehow even though it’s a1000 years later. But since he’s from the original universe, he doesn’t age and it seems Nopon might have a longer lifespan in humans. And they multiply like ants so they could have so many kids. well they’re part bird so it makes sense.
Monado Beginning of the World being a Xeno game was the first retcon.
I feel like pocket dimension isn’t the right term I would use. They explain they are full on universes and the word world in Japanese can also mean universes. Add on that when the universal creation events are shown, they are shown as being far more than a small pocket of space but a larger effect which is more explicit at the end of Xenoblade 1. So while they are sealed worlds, it would mean that the world in Xenoblade one was literally an infinite ocean with the two Titans being the only sources of life. They also go out of there way in dialogue to really get across just how massive the worlds are in Xenoblade. So pocket dimensions wouldn’t be what I would call it, but rather its own sealed off multiverse that was created by Klaus
Xenoblade has the best form of storytelling
Never fully understand it but will continue to look for every aspect of the game to know more!
omg can i finally watch a luxin video
22:00 are all these things really retcons though. If they are obviously like you said I’m on board for it.
But also as you said it doesn’t ‘change’ anything. It just adds more to it. And unless I misheard you, it doesn’t change the lore either. It just changes what people THOUGHT was the lore but was never confirmed
If X is the Kevesi side of those two world than imagine if they made a sequel to X featuring the Agnian side of those 2 worlds called Xenoblade Chronicles Y. Something cool like that idk.
Words can’t describe the amount of dopamine I get when I see a notification for a Luxin upload
Cuz I know the developers plan this out ever since Xeno gears while the Creator anyway, it's supposed to be six main games, originally bought the Creator had to change it cuz he only could make three games at first and he finally was able to make the final three and add games to it. Cuz I think this is the timeline they would go with but might change it over time.
Xenoblade Chronicles 1-3(2XXX- 4XXX) now in the first two games the conduit/ Zohar disappeared and reappeared in normal space and the rest of the universe but it seems to be able to split itself into places cuz it was on Earth, it was on that ship and look completely different it was red until a creature came out of it kill crew. But it was also inside the pocket dimension and then left meaning it can manipulate space and time and appear at any moment it wants and Drawn to humanity to see what they would.
My theory is God/ U-DO controls the Zohar/ conduit and created three copies of it to observe Humanity to see what they would do and I don't think humans noticed we know it's because where the audience but I don't think the other humans notice there were three of them. Cuz even though the emulators were created 4,000 years later even though they're copies they're extremely powerful so three copies of it would not be surprising but I don't think Humanity made them though.
Xeno Saga 1 - 3 (4XXX- 10,000) pretty much the events of the Zohar emulators and the real causing all sorts of havoc in the rest of the universe pretty much in the third game a giant gnosis destroys most of the Galaxy Federation and other groups probably killing trillions of people cutting off the surviving planets for probably a very long time. Cuz I know Shion, Kosmos survive and ReDiscover Earth which is actually Xenoblade 3 Earth when it's been a recombined become a new Earth.
Pretty much Xeno gears,(4XXX - 10,000) the start of the cutscene when the ship was destroyed by that creature that came from the Zohar the red one it happened exactly the same time as Xeno Saga episode 1 it happened exactly at the same moment. And the creator of the series did this on purpose to connect both games both old and new cuz it's a part of the original plan.
Now Xenoblade Chronicles X it's going to need major explaining( 4 billion years) pretty much at the start of the game the narrator said they've been on Earth for 4 billion years which is a secondary Earth that humans from the coalition government the ones that started the entire Exodus plan back in the 21st century, and sent humans to different planets it's radio broadcast made that perfectly clear they wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't important. And the original coalition government left Earth and found another Earth-like planet cuz when the main character was being explained about how Earth was destroyed I saw two moons in the cutscene they were put there on purpose, remember they planned this out from the very beginning to connect all the games.
Pretty much the Phantoms and their spaceship are pretty remnants from origin because origin would still exist but it might have changed over time creating mechanical life forms and for some reason they want to invade Earth 2, now the Ganglion, aliens mention the great one who is probably the architect which is a religion that's been passed down for billions of years cuz all the aliens are actually descendants of the Samaritans( humans and homhom from Xenoblade 1 - 3,) and not just humans the monsters that used to be on the original Earth.
Urarayans ( the blue scale people) could have evolved into the squid looking lady from the game, and their current leader but the Giants Stinger coming out of his back could also be related to a monster that evolved after billions of years,Prone could have evolved from a pig monster, the Cat aliens could have evolved from the Gormatte( cat people), that giant aliens that looks ape like could have evolved from a certain giant ape big Gonzalez😅😅😅😅😅
now that elf looking alien could have evolved from actual humans after billions of years and have pointy ears, and Elma could also be a descendant of a blade or human but evolved over time into a new species, L who is a native of Mira could be related to both humans and Blades but evolved into a different species from Elma, pretty much all the aliens are actually native to the original Earth called Mira😮😮😮😮😮 but they left the planet billions of years ago but it seems aliens have been on the planet before but forgotten their history.
Mira is the original Earth, but after 4 billion years a lot of things could have happened like Xenoblade Saga 4( probably cause a lot of havoc for Earth since it goes through a lot of space and time anomalies and those moons that appear all over the planet might be moons from different time periods or different planets me a lot of crazy things happen to the planet after 4 billion years) my name new game hasn't been made yet I don't even know the official name yet but I'm mostly made up a name.
Or Xenoblade X is another pocket dimension again all I have to do is sit back and watch pretty much all the games are connected that's going to be a lot of rewriting from some of the Lord though.
I have theory that unseen pocket dimensions merged into one 4 billion years later, in the main Universe. To clarify Xenoblade X take place 4 billions of after Xenoblade 3.
Earth 2 is where Coalition government, went to another Earth which is similar to the original Earth and renamed it Earth after it disappeared for 4,000 years also they were probably cut off from the Galaxy Federation because of the giant gnosis that destroyed half of the that were colonized which was 500,000 planets.
And then 4 billions, later earth is destroyed by Ganglion and phantoms( Remants of Origin) accidentally blew up Earth 2 and as I mentioned before there were two moons in cutscene. Mira original Earth merged with unseen potchet dimensions which side effect of Earth being split into, remerged, and the other pocket Dimensions merging with it creating Mira I think Xenoblade 4 might be a side effect of multiple pocket Dimensions merging into Mira since it has multiple moons which are from multiple versions of Earth merged into one. But this is just a theory.
Because remember there used to be other pocket dimensions so another Earth would not be surprising it could be a side effect of the Zohar affecting space and time.Mira has multiple cultures on the planet on each continent which represents a pocket dimension and the moons are just from other Earths. And all the aliens are descendants of humans and monsters from those pocket dimensions but they forgotten their history.
now the ganglion remember the architect and call him the great one and the samarians are humans from the original Earth and I think some of them left Earth Mira Billions of years age.
Ganglion aliens remember some History of architect / great One and we're jealous of the original humans cuz something tells me that the there was probably a war on the original Earth between the normal humans and the other human races and this Grudge has been going around for billions of years but that's mostly just a theory.
Main point is Humans and Monsters on Xenoblade 1-3 are their ancestors, most of Ganglion and aliens.
And to clarify Mira might be a combination of pocket dimensions, that materialize into the rest of the universe.
And the earth 2 that was destroyed , it’s just another earth. Takes place billions of fears in the future.
Adding new information isn’t a retcon though, even if it contradicts things that people ASSUMED before. Even if the writers thought about them in a second moment, it still isn’t a retcon.
Oh yeah a full length feature film from Luxin.
Torna does have some retcons actually. They’re just a lot subtler, namely that flashback in the base game of 2 where Lora and Haze are sparring with Mythra and Addam. The scene was positioned in a slightly different spot in the camp in the original cutscene vs the Torna version, and obviously Addam doesn’t have the cloak here outside of his introduction. Those are a lot more minor retcons but they are still retcons, modifying the original scene
Also I believe in the base game it’s stated that Mythra didn’t kill the Tornan Titan and it was Amalthus actually, but she very much did kill it during the battle as seen in Torna. That just might be a misunderstanding of the base game on my part tho.
Current hypothesis for Origin metal being so damn good and also being able to store souls:
It's an alloy of Mechonis metal (whatever that's made of) and Core Crystals. Much like how you make Steel by putting Carbon, a non-metal, into Iron, a metal, I hypothesize that Origin Metal was infused with Core Crystal particles in order to make it conducive to Ether, and the actual Core Crystals inside of itself, thus making it possible to "yoink" all the souls of the people into itself as the worlds collide and annihilate.
You did say that 2 didn't really have a "super material" like Mechon metal, but... Core Crystals kinda are that? They're the key to literally every aspect of the plot and worldbuilding, so... Yeah?
With this, I propose a (silly) nickname for Origin Metal: "Mechore Steel". 😁