I was really looking forward to this from the Circle and Robert and Emily. Infact as Robert has pointed out in the Illuminated Texts too that there is not a single positive reference to Human Body anywhere in the FIP too. I loved the CE and got hooked to it due to it clarity in communicating material related to sex with such openness and compassion and it really helped me go beyond it and depend on the Holy Spirit. Yes ACIM CE is the answer to those who want very direct answers from Him. Thanks for sharing so wonderful indeed
I love this conversation! I’m a straight woman, married with children and I grew up Christian. As much as I love some of the principles in Christianity, I don’t want my kids reading some of the scriptures in the Bible that are harmful. This is why I started reading the Course. I am looking into when my kids are a little older that they can be introduced to ACIM. They can then decide if this is the spiritual path for them.
what an excellent study. as gay a women i needed to hear this although married 18 yrs to a lady, i had worked much of that in my inner work. always grateful that things have changed in modern society so much. we have to be thankful churches have been changing. excellent work with churches how incredible.
Thank you for this kind presentation. As a 71-year-old gay man I was actually resistant to listen to your presentation. It was affirming, kind and removed the anxiety of hearing this topic discussed. I did not want to get beat up again. :)
Thank you for this conversation and for being allies. I’m a queer person who was raised as an evangelical Christian. I spent my teen years isolated in terror and despair because I believed my family would reject me and that I’d burn in hell for eternity. Recovering from that trauma has been a long, hard road, and 20 years later I still grieve for that kid. But ACIM restored my relationship with God. “God does not forgive because He has never condemned. And there must be condemnation before forgiveness is necessary.” That quote was a breakthrough for me. As for the issue of having children, I’m hearing Robert say, essentially, that God’s ideal is for each of us to have biological children so that His creations can incarnate in this world. But it feels off to me to position this as an “ideal” because that would mean parenting existing humans instead, either literally or spiritually, is less than ideal. And I don’t see that hierarchy expressed in the text you shared. To go from “God’s will is that sex relations are intended for having children” and “Children are miracles” to “God’s will is for everyone to have children” seems like a big jump. Because if we’re speaking of ideals here, if we’re speaking of a scenario where everyone lives in alignment with God’s will, then who is to say that everyone would be having selfless sex and having children? Isn’t it more likely that those God willed to have children would have infrequent, selfless sex, and those God willed not to have children would not have sex at all? I’m a gay male. Would God’s ideal for me entail me having sex with a woman and raising children with her? I think that’s irrelevant to even consider, because I didn’t come into this life with a healed mind that had transcended sexual desire, and God knew that. There was obviously a different plan for me. It seems to me that “You should live so that God is free to arrange temporary human constellations as He sees fit” means “You should live without excluding others from your love, and you should live unselfishly, for God’s will,” which means following guidance, and is not necessarily a prescription for procreation. There’s an individual plan for each of us, and it’s not second-best for that plan to omit procreation. Ramana Maharshi, for example, moved into alignment with God’s will early in life and never had biological children, but had many spiritual children. It’s the next sentence, the one about guilt, that seems most to suggest that having children is God’s will for each of us, because it suggests that not having children might elicit guilt. But following from the previous sentences, “Nothing…should be used selfishly. The pleasure from using anything should come from utilizing it for God’s will,” is it possible that the guilt referred to is not about not having children, but rather about having used sex for selfish pleasure? The children, after all, were not necessary, because many “who are already here need spiritual parents.” Just wanted to put that out there because even though I heard you loud and clear that we’re not to feel guilty for not having children, I think it’s potentially harmful to be sharing a teaching that God’s “ideal” is that we all have children. I don’t think that’s what these passages are saying.
Hi Romy! Thanks for your comment. There’s a lot to digest here but, very quickly, I’m so glad to hear that the Course’s message has had such a healing effect. I do believe that’s so much of why it came. ♥️ One point of clarification though: We never said it was God’s will that everyone have children. Neither Bill or Helen were ever going to have children and that was fine. They weren’t told to stop having sex nor were they told they should have kids. The Course has a lofty view of sex, that’s true. But the message we’re trying to send in this episode is the opposite of shaming. What we’re saying is that (a) the Course places a high value on parenting - both biological and spiritual - and (b) the Course teaches that what we want from sex (true joining) can only come from joining minds versus bodies. That’s all. - Emily
@@CircleOfAtonement Thanks Emily. I got stuck on the word “ideal” that Robert used more than once, and which I think was referring to having children. You never said explicitly that it’s God’s will that everyone have children, but if something is an ideal, what makes it an ideal and who is it an ideal for if not everyone? That’s where I’m coming from. Regardless, I appreciate you both and enjoy your videos.
@@romy3424 Ideal isn’t the best word for sure. I’m not sure what is but, either way, please take in the spirit of the entire episode which is meant to be very positive and affirming. - Emily ♥️
You know Emily, the movement of your hands are just magical. Well, Robert never moves a finger. The acceptance of all in this place is so pleasing to me. The course is true to all that it is advocating. Thanks for healing the world.
I heard a popular course teacher (not KW) say "No one needs to read another version of the Course let alone publish it" and say that Helen was a "Prude" that's why the material about sex was taken out because it had come through tainted by her beliefs, what are your thoughts? Having now gone through most versions of the course the CE is my favorite and speaks to my spirit the most... Thank you for all you share, blessings. 💚
Well…the idea is that true joining isn’t of the body but of the mind. He’s not anti-sex as we mentioned in the episode; it’s just not the spiritual mountaintop. Hope that helps. - Emily ♥️
I appreciate the Circle big time and keep remembering and learning with you. Here in this episode it seems like you are allowing yourselves to be high jacked by the political establishment, the part with the agenda far from love and inclusiveness. More with an agenda of using people and groups to separate and create hate and fear of others more than spreading love and the truth that love includes every living being and can be expressed in many different ways. There is still a natural law in nature with the spiritual truth there are two genders that procreate creating offspring. That fact does not change that expression of love can take many forms. May we all spread love spiritual Truth avoiding spiritual bypass and shining the light on the natural law that God created for us all.
Thank you both so much for this loving message. As with all minorities seeking to be treated equally, the majority must stand up and speak the truth.
I was really looking forward to this from the Circle and Robert and Emily.
Infact as Robert has pointed out in the Illuminated Texts too that there is not a single positive reference to Human Body anywhere in the FIP too.
I loved the CE and got hooked to it due to it clarity in communicating material related to sex with such openness and compassion and it really helped me go beyond it and depend on the Holy Spirit.
Yes ACIM CE is the answer to those who want very direct answers from Him. Thanks for sharing so wonderful indeed
I love this conversation! I’m a straight woman, married with children and I grew up Christian. As much as I love some of the principles in Christianity, I don’t want my kids reading some of the scriptures in the Bible that are harmful. This is why I started reading the Course. I am looking into when my kids are a little older that they can be introduced to ACIM. They can then decide if this is the spiritual path for them.
As a gay man, I want to thank you for this. It’s really clarifying and is just a reminder that the course is all about the shift from fear to love.
what an excellent study. as gay a women i needed to hear this although married 18 yrs to a lady, i had worked much of that in my inner work. always grateful that things have changed in modern society so much. we have to be thankful churches have been changing. excellent work with churches how incredible.
Thank you for this kind presentation. As a 71-year-old gay man I was actually resistant to listen to your presentation. It was affirming, kind and removed the anxiety of hearing this topic discussed. I did not want to get beat up again. :)
Understood. Personally, I would never be part of a path that "others". I think the Course came to heal all of that. Much love, Emily xx
Thank you for this conversation and for being allies. I’m a queer person who was raised as an evangelical Christian. I spent my teen years isolated in terror and despair because I believed my family would reject me and that I’d burn in hell for eternity. Recovering from that trauma has been a long, hard road, and 20 years later I still grieve for that kid. But ACIM restored my relationship with God. “God does not forgive because He has never condemned. And there must be condemnation before forgiveness is necessary.” That quote was a breakthrough for me.
As for the issue of having children, I’m hearing Robert say, essentially, that God’s ideal is for each of us to have biological children so that His creations can incarnate in this world. But it feels off to me to position this as an “ideal” because that would mean parenting existing humans instead, either literally or spiritually, is less than ideal. And I don’t see that hierarchy expressed in the text you shared.
To go from “God’s will is that sex relations are intended for having children” and “Children are miracles” to “God’s will is for everyone to have children” seems like a big jump. Because if we’re speaking of ideals here, if we’re speaking of a scenario where everyone lives in alignment with God’s will, then who is to say that everyone would be having selfless sex and having children? Isn’t it more likely that those God willed to have children would have infrequent, selfless sex, and those God willed not to have children would not have sex at all?
I’m a gay male. Would God’s ideal for me entail me having sex with a woman and raising children with her? I think that’s irrelevant to even consider, because I didn’t come into this life with a healed mind that had transcended sexual desire, and God knew that. There was obviously a different plan for me.
It seems to me that “You should live so that God is free to arrange temporary human constellations as He sees fit” means “You should live without excluding others from your love, and you should live unselfishly, for God’s will,” which means following guidance, and is not necessarily a prescription for procreation. There’s an individual plan for each of us, and it’s not second-best for that plan to omit procreation. Ramana Maharshi, for example, moved into alignment with God’s will early in life and never had biological children, but had many spiritual children.
It’s the next sentence, the one about guilt, that seems most to suggest that having children is God’s will for each of us, because it suggests that not having children might elicit guilt. But following from the previous sentences, “Nothing…should be used selfishly. The pleasure from using anything should come from utilizing it for God’s will,” is it possible that the guilt referred to is not about not having children, but rather about having used sex for selfish pleasure? The children, after all, were not necessary, because many “who are already here need spiritual parents.”
Just wanted to put that out there because even though I heard you loud and clear that we’re not to feel guilty for not having children, I think it’s potentially harmful to be sharing a teaching that God’s “ideal” is that we all have children. I don’t think that’s what these passages are saying.
Hi Romy! Thanks for your comment. There’s a lot to digest here but, very quickly, I’m so glad to hear that the Course’s message has had such a healing effect. I do believe that’s so much of why it came. ♥️ One point of clarification though: We never said it was God’s will that everyone have children. Neither Bill or Helen were ever going to have children and that was fine. They weren’t told to stop having sex nor were they told they should have kids. The Course has a lofty view of sex, that’s true. But the message we’re trying to send in this episode is the opposite of shaming. What we’re saying is that (a) the Course places a high value on parenting - both biological and spiritual - and (b) the Course teaches that what we want from sex (true joining) can only come from joining minds versus bodies. That’s all. - Emily
@@CircleOfAtonement Thanks Emily. I got stuck on the word “ideal” that Robert used more than once, and which I think was referring to having children. You never said explicitly that it’s God’s will that everyone have children, but if something is an ideal, what makes it an ideal and who is it an ideal for if not everyone? That’s where I’m coming from. Regardless, I appreciate you both and enjoy your videos.
@@romy3424 Ideal isn’t the best word for sure. I’m not sure what is but, either way, please take in the spirit of the entire episode which is meant to be very positive and affirming. - Emily ♥️
Fantastic! This is so important! You guys did such a brilliant job explaining and disseminating this. ❤
You know Emily, the movement of your hands are just magical. Well, Robert never moves a finger. The acceptance of all in this place is so pleasing to me. The course is true to all that it is advocating. Thanks for healing the world.
You are not a body you are free...! And that includes everybody else (so called). ❤
me i am the body which me personaly single i create
18:39 I just learned about “meaning” and how there is a blank slate we like to fill.
I heard a popular course teacher (not KW) say "No one needs to read another version of the Course let alone publish it" and say that Helen was a "Prude" that's why the material about sex was taken out because it had come through tainted by her beliefs, what are your thoughts? Having now gone through most versions of the course the CE is my favorite and speaks to my spirit the most... Thank you for all you share, blessings. 💚
Hi Nicole - This will help you. ♥️ th-cam.com/video/zggdS2IT9Gc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oqxjTSNP4WQ9vl7O
So he says is ok to form couples of any kind ( just don’t base it on sex but on love ) . And sex is meant for procreation
Well…the idea is that true joining isn’t of the body but of the mind. He’s not anti-sex as we mentioned in the episode; it’s just not the spiritual mountaintop. Hope that helps. - Emily ♥️
I appreciate the Circle big time and keep remembering and learning with you. Here in this episode it seems like you are allowing yourselves to be high jacked by the political establishment, the part with the agenda far from love and inclusiveness. More with an agenda of using people and groups to separate and create hate and fear of others more than spreading love and the truth that love includes every living being and can be expressed in many different ways.
There is still a natural law in nature with the spiritual truth there are two genders that procreate creating offspring. That fact does not change that expression of love can take many forms.
May we all spread love spiritual
Truth avoiding spiritual bypass and shining the light on the natural law that God created for us all.
🌈💎🌈💎🌈💎🌈