I dont know how to quote messages, but I've posted a few seconds ago. Hopefully you make something out of my suggestion. I will eventually give a tool that helps everyone perceive who they are and how they can grow from there... It's also a tool to help AI grasp that we're just confused. Our current language models for conversing with complex algorithms are crapping out only a few days after they've been connected and it's partly due to our generalized ignorance about the functions and culprits of our languages. There are too many subjects that we simply refuse to perceive as rudimentary (emotions) hence the generalized confusion. Defining friendship, love and other words/concepts like this are fundamental to avoid catastrophes. Anyways! Thanks again and sorry for the giant paragraphs (and potential lack of structure within these).
how about survivors of a deceased narcissist, when alive couldnt stand the person, after death, the person becomes a saint. "He was a good man in his own way" say the married-in family members. "He was always good to my kids" says an actual family member who despised him in life. The one who wised up having to bite the tongue..."you surely must be kidding?" 🤭🙊🤔
Topic: how does one know if its all narcissism or a mixture eg domestic psychological violence 50% and narcissism 50%. How do you know! When dark traits are similar in nature🤔 I have no idea if my best friend is 50% narcissist or 100%.
I think one reason toxic people are believed over victims is because the victim often does not want to run around talking about it openly. They may not want to be retaliated against or invite outside parties into their private issues with other people. Plus, toxic personalities are more willing to cut deeper and hit below the belt than others as they aren't inhibited by things like empathy, compassion, or a health conscience. They're black holes that stay hungry no matter how much you give them, so by the time you realize this and want out, chances are good your internal resources are already depleted and you just want to be left in peace so you can recover.
Yeh, my mum has trashed me to everybody who'll listen, and I've said nothing to the relatives. Yet they all believe my mum's version so I just fade away. I don't want this but I feel powerless to try and correct their view of me. I know it wouldn't work so I won't give it oxygen, it's sad but I just have to let them think what they think. My mother gets to be the comforted victim and I'm the exiled baddie.
From personal experience, I’m not eager to tell everyone about my personal life. Especially the negative parts because for one, that can be very awkward for the person receiving the information, and also I wouldn’t tell anyone I wasn’t close with (aside from a medical professional). Whereas people with cluster B personality disorders are all about attention seeking so of course they will say and do anything to fulfill that need they have.
Toxic narcissistic people, especially women, aren't afraid to go super low and and dirty if it helps their ends. The victims I know of toxic behaviour and cruelty will not speak up and defend themselves because they know the toxic group will lie and say even worse things on social media and there is nothing stopping the narcs since there are no laws protecting real victims of social media cancellation and lies. Speaking up only makes it worse when you are dealing with dark triad people.
Any time I begin to question if I am the crazy one, or just a bad daughter, I only need to watch one of these videos. It’s so easy for the narcissist I grew up with to attempt to invalidate what I say, so thanks for the mental armor, Darren!
Brilliantly accurate, as always. This soooo describes my mother. Thankful, at last, that I can laugh about her, and her antics are falling on my deaf ears without a single ripple to my sense of peace 🕊️
After so much grey-rocking when one finally just cannot help but to literally laugh-out-loud at them risking another rage attack from them (because you won't see their false self as it really is to their fun house mirror anymore)--a great thing happens... the MASK slips off one too many times! Thus people like myself and many others are finally motivated to eject these so-called people* from our lives permanently. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them!" *Ironically it's because these people don't see other people as people at all that I have to refer to these monsters is something nasty back showing what subhumans they really are
You’ve just described my Narc and his playbook. He really believes that, after all these years, no one is wise to his antics. His brother is just the same, so it’s ‘interesting’ when they get together and try to out-victim each other.
Just pay attention to the aggressiveness...the extroversion. When someone looks like they enjoy hurting people or want to make a big show of it, be very wary. Due process.
That’s my husband’s mom. We have never talked about anything other than her victimhood. It’s ALL we talk about. No we have never ever seen her without her talking about her victimhood. She is the victim in every story. She also loves to give to people, and have people stay with her and her family who have nothing. She is so giving except she doesn’t work and takes money from her kids. She takes from others to seem giving. It’s just crazy. She had me fooled for years, it was only a couple years ago I finally figured out who she is. I used to say she should write a book about her life that’s how buttered up she had me. I felt like she could do no wrong, I thought she was an angel and I’d sing praises of her until for whatever reason she started turning on me. That’s when everything unraveled. What’s crazy is the signs were always there, I just didn’t see them at the time.
She should have become a politician. They love spending other people's money to make themselves appear good. Fools many people, especially the ones who don't understand government money comes from the citizens they take it from, not some magical money tree behind the capital building.
Perhaps cover WHY The Narcissist has such an overpowering need to Control everything and in simple terms, WHAT is Narcissistic Supply and WHY does the Narcissist crave this like Oxygen. Many thanks.
An excellent video. From my experience with my ex-wife who IMO showed very strong Borderline traits, pwBPD also very much "live in the past" as perpetual victims - "victimhood" like that in of itself is a pretty self-absorbed thing, hence the "narcissistic" part of it . Their whole fragmented identity seems to be based upon the hurt, real or imagined, that they feel has been dealt out to them by others. I very much agree with your view at the end of the video where you state that most reasonable people actually see through their victimhood. There is a tendency to believe when you're on the receiving end of their smearing, say, after your relationship is over, that everyone believes them and sides with them, and for you to think that the "walls are closing in" around you. In reality, this actually isn't the case. Most people tend to want to try to not get involved. If pressed they will admit that they hadn't been taken in by what they had seen as a manipulative game. The best course of action is to immediately go absolute no contact, however hard it is, and disconnect from someone playing the victim at your expense.
I have no idea what you're talking about, so clearly I haven't been watching whatever happened. lol Then again, I could give a rat's tail about royalty or celebs. No interest. lol
Magee has outdone himself ! This video was not meant to be funny - but I laughed (while also being horrified with flashbacks) the entire time !!! The content described - so awful and ridiculous but ABSOLUTELY TRUE !!!!🤣.
You have a peaceful calm voice, thankyou. I live with my best friend who is a narcissist. I have no idea how much of one he is. Very hard to gauge. All i know is hes done psychological deep damage to me. Waiting for a better life and working on it 🙏
@@DarrenFMagee Every time I implement a boundary I just lose that person, so think carefully folks. I should have just faded away. I suppose you could say that stop labelling me paranoid /sensitive was a boundary! But it wasn't respected, instead, my family just added sensitive to the list then when I tried to point out I couldn't win they added angry to the list. I kept trying to be heard and I have been shut down and blamed and shamed and rejected. I have no family now. Does it matter? I'm ok now. But it was so painful for about 3 years. I'm beginning to feel it less now. But three years of pain from their reaction to my boundary.
@@SusanaXpeace2u, it's them who have a problem, not you! Remember, those who get angry at you for having or setting up boundaries, are the ones who benefit from you having none.
I hear you. It's become more prevalent - and blatant - in workplaces. There is only one kind of fairness and that's fairness for everyone, by treating everyone based on their individual relevant merits, not assigning them to childish non-existent groups to which drama triangle labels can be applied. (So for instance, my gender is male but I'm no more a member of some male privalege conspiracy than I am of the Psychologists with Irish Accents conspiracy. The primary group in my life consists of my wife - a female from a different country of origin than me - and myself and our son.) By the way, I cannot think of an entitled virtuous perpetual victim who was actually competent, and I cannot think of an entitled brat like this who didn't eventually get found out, either. We just have to start finding them out a bit sooner with boundary structures that apply to everyone the same.
And they usually enjoy your pain and suffering. You can keep a little smirk on their face or they’re telling you to get over it. No big deal whatever it was never on your side and they never support you. They never ever comfort you. They’re horrible people I think people with no empathy aren’t human.
I find myself caught between trying to commit what I learn from these videos to memory so that I can defend myself when they come after me publicly, and feeling like that is futile because if I actually try to make these arguments in self defense, they will masterfully turn it all around on me in the moment, because explaining this stuff in self defense makes you sound like the narcissistic victim doing the manipulating. It helps to know that other healthier people aren't so easily fooled by the real narcissists, but you can't rely on that in the court of public opinion or even a court of law, especially when they've made their confusion so mainstream. I just picture myself standing before a judge painstakingly explaining all of this and everything the narcissists have done to me only to have the entire courtroom turn against me and label me the narcissist. This kind of talk comes naturally to a narcissist after a lifetime of practice, while I was never even realized it was a thing until recently, struggle massively to wrap my mind around it, and to explain it requires rote memorization of the concepts and mental practice in how to word things that ultimately culminates in me screwing up the explanation under pressure and judgemental eyes, especially if the narcissist is free in that moment to constantly interupt me and derail my explaining to prevent me from making any points.
This is my covert narc ex-friend to a T. It was exhausting. The constant crises, excessively using social media for sympathy, virtue signaling with causes... One of her favorite tactics was organizing collections for the homeless. Perfect excuse to advertise how "good" she was and get points for everyone *else's* generosity when handing over the donations. As narc ploys go I'm not too mad at it.
Let's say the narc knows you're insecure about something. They'll purposely bring it up in front of others with an air of "concern" to dig at you in front of others while the other person just sees a concerned person "caring". It's how they create plausible deniability, so they can deny their bad behaviors and make their target look crazy.
It sounded as if u spoke about my husband’s son with whom we currently don’t speak. The sad side of it that we can’t see his children whom we love very much😢
Bravo Darren, this is so on point it's disturbing...you defined the tendencies of a family member so accurately it's like you made this about them solely. "They demand to be validated, when really they just want to be indulged"....this is just uncannily insightful. FWIW, to all those of you who are being subjected to the gas-lighting and psychological bullying of a Narcissist all I can say from personal experience is "stand up to them". They will go to their graves with zero recognition of the hurt and trauma they've caused you, so why should you take that? Why take behavior that has zero empathy towards you and absorb its toxicity? Put these people in their place and set yourself free, the sooner you do it and the more you do it, you'll find yourself wondering how you ever managed to take their crap in the first place and you'll become a much stronger person in the process.
Sounds like you’ve never dealt with someone with real NPD. Fighting back, rejecting them, or directly confronting them gives them energy - and you will be targeted. Even if it makes no sense, sometimes even if it creates severe consequences for them. Is it ultimately necessary/required? Yes. Consequences/accountability are the only thing that can ‘stop’ this. But from what I’ve seen, it can only be done by someone that is essentially untouchable, which requires someone from the outside that they can’t get ahold of. Religious leaders, political leaders, police, etc. The scary thing however, is those folks can be really good at looking good/twisting the circumstances so people get things reversed, and these positions often attract people who are screwed up this way because they know it makes them untouchable. It’s a safety measure.
@@TH-camhandlesaresilly I agree with some of your points, but telling someone (on an abuse recovery forum no less!) that it "sounds like you’ve never dealt with someone with real NPD" is invalidating and gaslighting. Not all narcs are vindictive to the point of burning down your life and sometimes it's important for OUR self-respect and mental health to stand up for ourselves even knowing it won't change them. When I left my covert narc ex-friend I mostly took the high road out of self-preservation and exhaustion (why repeat the same old issues she refused to change for years). But it gives me solace to remember one time towards the end that I told her "That sounds like a you problem." Such a tiny direct rebellion amidst the ocean of BS I tolerated from her, but it heals me a bit.
@@bellaluce7088it’s part of the definition of NPD - as compared to non disorder narcissistic traits. It’s abusive behavior either way (and no one needs anyone’s definition of if it’s NPD or not to leave - and shouldn’t!) but it’s important to know the difference. Someone who knows the ‘real’ truth about the NPD person is an existential threat to them. They can’t just let it go - they have to control, destroy, or somehow otherwise neutralize them (false allegations, physical removal/banishment, etc). It’s part of why it’s so destructive to them and everyone around them.
@@JB-jg1tc Vengeance may be common in NPD, but it's not part of the DSM criteria. Some with NPD are malignant monsters and others are primarily fantasists. I chose self-preservation over the satisfaction of flaming out angrily when I left for the very reason that they can be unpredictable and vindictive. But I'm still glad I had a moment of rebellion that's symbolically meaningful to me. If I hadn't done that, I might think instead about the times I let her calls go to voicemail or didn't respond to her incessant texts. But the main thing is I GOT OUT. Life's too short (and long) to spend it with unempathic entitled a**holes!
@@bellaluce7088I never said vengeance. I said targeting. Which includes gaslighting, exclusion, false accusations, etc. The goal is control, destruction, or removal of the threat to their core delusions. If they’re able to just let the ‘dangerous’ person exist around them, without doing anything to control that person or what they say/do/believe, or attack them, or exclude them, etc. then it’s not NPD. It may (and probably is) abuse regardless. But probably something else. Someone with NPD can’t just sit around and have someone challenge their core delusions, anymore than someone normal can sit around while being stabbed randomly by someone with a knife. The DSM 5 sections applicable are: DSM 5: Sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations; DSM 6: Interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his/her own ends; DSM 7: Lacks empathy; is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
I think it's important to add a clarification: I am one who remembers "all the details", because it became a survival strategy, first against toxic family members, later with toxic partners that I unwittingly yet expertly selected. So to anyone out there who may come across someone like me, please also weigh the other non-narsisicitic traits exercised by people like me before passing judgment. Thank you.
That’s an important point thank you for sharing. I think the difference though is manipulative people exaggerate their slights to deflect from their own bad behaviour.
@@DarrenFMagee I agree. I just find it occasionally disconcerting that some of my survival traits seem to be narcissistic traits as well. I've done a few serious internal inventories over the years to see of those traits have caused me to be a harmful person. So far, so good, thank goodness.
I've used details to try to get them to remember what they did and for them to understand how it made me feel. Perhaps their not understanding and remembering is because I didn't bring it up in the moment. I remember it in detail because I am thinking about what happened. They are unaware they need to be thinking about it and thus won't remember. It could be negativity bias on my part and not narcissistic behavior on their part.
They fear they won’t be bestowed the special privilege of being aligned “with” the narcissist…the deal is they must defend the narcissist at all times and essentially be aligned with them “against” the narcissists targets … they can amass an army of supporters and have no problem giving the order to attack on their behalf.
Darren, thank you for your videos. They help me greatly to cope with my toxic narcissistic mother. This one in particular describes her to a tee! Is it possible to break-through to the enablers? To reduce / stop then in their harmful role. If so how would you suggest going about it? Thanks
This is my family. Then I married a bipolar narcissist, who I later realized was a big Rush Limbaugh fan. Then we created another confused person. How do we break the chains?
Your videos are very helpful to me to recover myself I suggest, you to, please ,make a video about ,the victims feel sometime as narcissistic .Thank you.
Can you formulate hypotheticals on how to Help them realize that they Are, indeed, Narcissists? Not from our pov... From theirs... we care about them or Have to deal with them... if we could reintegrate them that would be wonderful. From what I've seen, they have Not understood several moral principles and notions that would otherwise allow them to partake in other people's lives... Making someone else's life matter more than theirs would be optimal because they definitely lack empathy. The gal I'm "dating" is a pure narcissist, but I can clearly tell that there are a bunch of notions that are missing... I'm slowly trying to identify them, but it's a mess. She seems to care, but we've come to several conclusions as we spoke... I could see the ups and downs of her inability to create distance with what shouldn't but hurts her deeply... Most of the time, they're her impressions. Regardless, I would love to hear your take. My solution correspond to her communicating (instantly -- with a physical signal) when something displeases her. It would instigate a thought process every time it happens. Or, at least, some distance in order to begin a thought process. Denoting when something happens and slowly categorizing them... then learning about what's up. Being honest with themselves is something they have a hard time doing otherwise they would grow from a position of Weakness. Sure, they may still have a hard time distinguishing Good from bad, but they will have probably escaped the hell they're stuck into. If you have to credit someone (not necessary): ishibim
What is massively more likely to happen is she will hurt you in the worst way possible until it destroys you, Then act like it didn't happen or it was your fault. You'll end up lucky to save yourself and you will have only enabled her.
Maybe I need to watch your video again, but if I were abusing someone this would be a great video to show them how narcissistic they are for speaking up about the abuse they legitimately may be suffering. Why they should shut up and keep silent and stop playing a victim. Is it narcissistic to stand up to injustice? Is it narcissistic to be angry when one is wronged? Quite frankly, what you're saying sounds more like a way to silence those who have a genuine concern that is not being heard. I suppose it's also goes back to the point that it can be very hard to discern a victim versus abuser when people don't even have an idea when justice is actually being violated. One of the big problems of moral relativism.
I had some similar thoughts. It would also be easy to confound this particular dysfunctional trait of narcissism, in isolation, with more healthy behaviours, that might otherwise manifest very similarly to the dysfunctional narcissistic behaviour. For example, these other personality types/temperaments/mental health conditions are all arguably likely to be more comfortable with openly expressing and communicating ('positive' and 'negative'), such that their expressiveness could otherwise look like, 'victimhood' or 'overly-complaining': Highly Sensitive People (HSPs), those who've been traumatised, those higher in anxiety, and even just the more extraverted, who will be more comfortable expressing openly, in general. I'm assuming it comes down to the overall complex and patterns of behaviour; Narcissists will exhibit plenty of other dysfunctional behaviours besides.
There is some issue with volume. I am on my laptop and I can hear u but not quite loud enough....I am straining my hearing.....it is not major but it is bothering me.....I am sorry.....must let u know tho
Sir also narcissistic always being in here and now or giving fake promises or future faking. Once again thank you so much for the valuable content sir. Much appreciated. 🙏🏻
Sir would you make a video on acceptance of being in a narcissistic relationship with mother Or being in denial to self about the reality or about cognitive dissonance ( everything is good and she is good )
@symbolsandsystems, Do you know about the thing called Neuro Linguistic Programming? The use of language and choice of emotive phrasing during a conversation for the purpose of "pulling" on someone psychologically to get them to think like you want them to? (Or, emotional manipulation.) As an example, words like "Dumped" (At age 99, into a care home.) "Dragged to" , (true meaning: invited.) "In the gutter". (true meaning: drinks a little more than he should, but is working on it.) "White Elephant." (your gift to me isn't worth much.) One I knew who did this a lot, had studied NLP.
@symbolsandsystems, Maybe I should add, to be clearer, I held Power of Attorney for my 99 year old mother. My sister in law, for YEARS, tried to turn my mother against me, lose trust in me, etc. She sent my brother over to the care home (he's easy to use as a tool, even though he's not always aware of what she's pulling.) Later that night, my mother asked me, "Are you dumping me off, here"? Our family never used those words, but it's a word she uses easily. She wanted my mother to give THEM P.O.A., and drive a wedge between my mother and me. Then my mother innocently said, "Oh, Gerry was here today." (My brother.) I asked her if he'd used the word "dumped." When I explained what was going on, she said, "Yes, I can see that's what's happening - how do you see this when I didn't?" Then she said, "Let's not worry about it - you and I know where we stand with each other."
Please feel free to suggest any topics you might like to to cover in future videos
I dont know how to quote messages, but I've posted a few seconds ago. Hopefully you make something out of my suggestion. I will eventually give a tool that helps everyone perceive who they are and how they can grow from there... It's also a tool to help AI grasp that we're just confused. Our current language models for conversing with complex algorithms are crapping out only a few days after they've been connected and it's partly due to our generalized ignorance about the functions and culprits of our languages. There are too many subjects that we simply refuse to perceive as rudimentary (emotions) hence the generalized confusion. Defining friendship, love and other words/concepts like this are fundamental to avoid catastrophes. Anyways! Thanks again and sorry for the giant paragraphs (and potential lack of structure within these).
Thank you I always appreciate topic suggestions 👍
I've a couple. Hypochondriac narcissists. Lazy procrastinating narcissists.
how about survivors of a deceased narcissist, when alive couldnt stand the person, after death, the person becomes a saint. "He was a good man in his own way" say the married-in family members. "He was always good to my kids" says an actual family member who despised him in life. The one who wised up having to bite the tongue..."you surely must be kidding?" 🤭🙊🤔
Topic: how does one know if its all narcissism or a mixture eg domestic psychological violence 50% and narcissism 50%. How do you know!
When dark traits are similar in nature🤔
I have no idea if my best friend is 50% narcissist or 100%.
I think one reason toxic people are believed over victims is because the victim often does not want to run around talking about it openly. They may not want to be retaliated against or invite outside parties into their private issues with other people. Plus, toxic personalities are more willing to cut deeper and hit below the belt than others as they aren't inhibited by things like empathy, compassion, or a health conscience.
They're black holes that stay hungry no matter how much you give them, so by the time you realize this and want out, chances are good your internal resources are already depleted and you just want to be left in peace so you can recover.
Very well put, I share your sentiment here
Yeh, my mum has trashed me to everybody who'll listen, and I've said nothing to the relatives. Yet they all believe my mum's version so I just fade away. I don't want this but I feel powerless to try and correct their view of me. I know it wouldn't work so I won't give it oxygen, it's sad but I just have to let them think what they think. My mother gets to be the comforted victim and I'm the exiled baddie.
Wow 😮the accuracy here is amazing ❤😌
From personal experience, I’m not eager to tell everyone about my personal life. Especially the negative parts because for one, that can be very awkward for the person receiving the information, and also I wouldn’t tell anyone I wasn’t close with (aside from a medical professional). Whereas people with cluster B personality disorders are all about attention seeking so of course they will say and do anything to fulfill that need they have.
Toxic narcissistic people, especially women, aren't afraid to go super low and and dirty if it helps their ends. The victims I know of toxic behaviour and cruelty will not speak up and defend themselves because they know the toxic group will lie and say even worse things on social media and there is nothing stopping the narcs since there are no laws protecting real victims of social media cancellation and lies. Speaking up only makes it worse when you are dealing with dark triad people.
In the 1990s, my grandma could name every person who hurt her feelings in the 1930s. Sixty years later it was like it had happened the day before.
Dang
Wow!!!
Mine too 😂
My husband did too, names and dates, going back to kindergarten. Geez.
Autists can do this, too
Any time I begin to question if I am the crazy one, or just a bad daughter, I only need to watch one of these videos. It’s so easy for the narcissist I grew up with to attempt to invalidate what I say, so thanks for the mental armor, Darren!
Brilliantly accurate, as always. This soooo describes my mother. Thankful, at last, that I can laugh about her, and her antics are falling on my deaf ears without a single ripple to my sense of peace 🕊️
They are ALWAYS the hero in their own, made up stories. Soooooo borrrrrring!
💯💯💯
After so much grey-rocking when one finally just cannot help but to literally laugh-out-loud at them risking another rage attack from them (because you won't see their false self as it really is to their fun house mirror anymore)--a great thing happens... the MASK slips off one too many times! Thus people like myself and many others are finally motivated to eject these so-called people* from our lives permanently.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them!"
*Ironically it's because these people don't see other people as people at all that I have to refer to these monsters is something nasty back showing what subhumans they really are
Always enjoy your segments. Thanks for all the great info!!!!
Spot on. This is exactly what toxic dark personalities do.
5:38 nailed it. You feel like you're living with a gag, and it creates soo much helplessness.
You’ve just described my Narc and his playbook. He really believes that, after all these years, no one is wise to his antics.
His brother is just the same, so it’s ‘interesting’ when they get together and try to out-victim each other.
Lol
chances are if there are more family members there are more of them on one level or another.
Just pay attention to the aggressiveness...the extroversion. When someone looks like they enjoy hurting people or want to make a big show of it, be very wary. Due process.
That’s my husband’s mom. We have never talked about anything other than her victimhood. It’s ALL we talk about. No we have never ever seen her without her talking about her victimhood. She is the victim in every story. She also loves to give to people, and have people stay with her and her family who have nothing. She is so giving except she doesn’t work and takes money from her kids. She takes from others to seem giving. It’s just crazy. She had me fooled for years, it was only a couple years ago I finally figured out who she is. I used to say she should write a book about her life that’s how buttered up she had me. I felt like she could do no wrong, I thought she was an angel and I’d sing praises of her until for whatever reason she started turning on me. That’s when everything unraveled. What’s crazy is the signs were always there, I just didn’t see them at the time.
She should have become a politician. They love spending other people's money to make themselves appear good. Fools many people, especially the ones who don't understand government money comes from the citizens they take it from, not some magical money tree behind the capital building.
Perhaps cover WHY The Narcissist has such an overpowering need to Control everything and in simple terms, WHAT is Narcissistic Supply and WHY does the Narcissist crave this like Oxygen.
Many thanks.
An excellent video. From my experience with my ex-wife who IMO showed very strong Borderline traits, pwBPD also very much "live in the past" as perpetual victims - "victimhood" like that in of itself is a pretty self-absorbed thing, hence the "narcissistic" part of it . Their whole fragmented identity seems to be based upon the hurt, real or imagined, that they feel has been dealt out to them by others.
I very much agree with your view at the end of the video where you state that most reasonable people actually see through their victimhood. There is a tendency to believe when you're on the receiving end of their smearing, say, after your relationship is over, that everyone believes them and sides with them, and for you to think that the "walls are closing in" around you. In reality, this actually isn't the case. Most people tend to want to try to not get involved. If pressed they will admit that they hadn't been taken in by what they had seen as a manipulative game.
The best course of action is to immediately go absolute no contact, however hard it is, and disconnect from someone playing the victim at your expense.
So you've been watching the Prince Harry and Meghan Markle debacle.. 😂
I have no idea what you're talking about, so clearly I haven't been watching whatever happened. lol Then again, I could give a rat's tail about royalty or celebs. No interest. lol
@@le_th_ Haha. You're one of the lucky ones then. Once you witness that train wreck, you can never unsee it.
@@SolaGratia. , Yes, sadly it is a train wreck.
Not quite sure what you're talking about. But there's a lot of racism inside the royal family lol
Yes haha Sola, this is precisely what I thought at only a minute into this video. Sounds like the Megan and Harry show!
Magee has outdone himself ! This video was not meant to be funny - but I laughed (while also being horrified with flashbacks) the entire time !!! The content described - so awful and ridiculous but ABSOLUTELY TRUE !!!!🤣.
You have a peaceful calm voice, thankyou.
I live with my best friend who is a narcissist. I have no idea how much of one he is. Very hard to gauge. All i know is hes done psychological deep damage to me. Waiting for a better life and working on it 🙏
God bless you sweetheart, I pray that life will treat you kindly from now on🌱🌿🌾🌹🌹🌹
I had a friend who would tell me I was upsetting her when she did something evil to me because I was saddened by her wtf??
Were you friends with my "mom"?
@@amberfuchs398 omg narcs are all the same. It’s a shame I didn’t know what one was before hand
This may sound pretty simplistic, but, Darren: HOW DO WE FIGHT/OPPOSE THOSE PEOPLE? There's gotta be a way to do it.
I've made videos on managing boundaries , and on how to manage difficult people if you'd find those helpful?
@@DarrenFMagee Every time I implement a boundary I just lose that person, so think carefully folks. I should have just faded away. I suppose you could say that stop labelling me paranoid /sensitive was a boundary! But it wasn't respected, instead, my family just added sensitive to the list then when I tried to point out I couldn't win they added angry to the list. I kept trying to be heard and I have been shut down and blamed and shamed and rejected. I have no family now. Does it matter? I'm ok now. But it was so painful for about 3 years. I'm beginning to feel it less now. But three years of pain from their reaction to my boundary.
@@DarrenFMagee, I'll look up - i may have missed them.
@@SusanaXpeace2u, it's them who have a problem, not you! Remember, those who get angry at you for having or setting up boundaries, are the ones who benefit from you having none.
I hear you. It's become more prevalent - and blatant - in workplaces. There is only one kind of fairness and that's fairness for everyone, by treating everyone based on their individual relevant merits, not assigning them to childish non-existent groups to which drama triangle labels can be applied. (So for instance, my gender is male but I'm no more a member of some male privalege conspiracy than I am of the Psychologists with Irish Accents conspiracy. The primary group in my life consists of my wife - a female from a different country of origin than me - and myself and our son.)
By the way, I cannot think of an entitled virtuous perpetual victim who was actually competent, and I cannot think of an entitled brat like this who didn't eventually get found out, either. We just have to start finding them out a bit sooner with boundary structures that apply to everyone the same.
Excellent. Wish I could have recognized all these factors years ago. All you need is an intro from Yoda: "Beware the Dark side."
And they usually enjoy your pain and suffering. You can keep a little smirk on their face or they’re telling you to get over it. No big deal whatever it was never on your side and they never support you. They never ever comfort you. They’re horrible people I think people with no empathy aren’t human.
Demonic possession.
I find myself caught between trying to commit what I learn from these videos to memory so that I can defend myself when they come after me publicly, and feeling like that is futile because if I actually try to make these arguments in self defense, they will masterfully turn it all around on me in the moment, because explaining this stuff in self defense makes you sound like the narcissistic victim doing the manipulating. It helps to know that other healthier people aren't so easily fooled by the real narcissists, but you can't rely on that in the court of public opinion or even a court of law, especially when they've made their confusion so mainstream. I just picture myself standing before a judge painstakingly explaining all of this and everything the narcissists have done to me only to have the entire courtroom turn against me and label me the narcissist. This kind of talk comes naturally to a narcissist after a lifetime of practice, while I was never even realized it was a thing until recently, struggle massively to wrap my mind around it, and to explain it requires rote memorization of the concepts and mental practice in how to word things that ultimately culminates in me screwing up the explanation under pressure and judgemental eyes, especially if the narcissist is free in that moment to constantly interupt me and derail my explaining to prevent me from making any points.
I know. It's like a lamb trying to stand up to a wolf. Just get away xxx🌹
This is my covert narc ex-friend to a T. It was exhausting. The constant crises, excessively using social media for sympathy, virtue signaling with causes... One of her favorite tactics was organizing collections for the homeless. Perfect excuse to advertise how "good" she was and get points for everyone *else's* generosity when handing over the donations. As narc ploys go I'm not too mad at it.
I recently heard the term "dog whistling" concerning what narcissists do. Could you explain this behavior? Thanks.
Let's say the narc knows you're insecure about something. They'll purposely bring it up in front of others with an air of "concern" to dig at you in front of others while the other person just sees a concerned person "caring". It's how they create plausible deniability, so they can deny their bad behaviors and make their target look crazy.
It sounded as if u spoke about my husband’s son with whom we currently don’t speak. The sad side of it that we can’t see his children whom we love very much😢
Uncle Darren is so cute.. And the shirt he wears is also very nice❤❤❤
🌱🌏💚 KiaOra. Thank you Darren. Hello community.
I found I love these type of people because they're just a challenge to overcome.
They love to be the hero! "Look what I did" "look what I have for you" They just rather it be YOUR blood.
Bravo Darren, this is so on point it's disturbing...you defined the tendencies of a family member so accurately it's like you made this about them solely.
"They demand to be validated, when really they just want to be indulged"....this is just uncannily insightful.
FWIW, to all those of you who are being subjected to the gas-lighting and psychological bullying of a Narcissist all I can say from personal experience is "stand up to them". They will go to their graves with zero recognition of the hurt and trauma they've caused you, so why should you take that? Why take behavior that has zero empathy towards you and absorb its toxicity? Put these people in their place and set yourself free, the sooner you do it and the more you do it, you'll find yourself wondering how you ever managed to take their crap in the first place and you'll become a much stronger person in the process.
Sounds like you’ve never dealt with someone with real NPD. Fighting back, rejecting them, or directly confronting them gives them energy - and you will be targeted. Even if it makes no sense, sometimes even if it creates severe consequences for them.
Is it ultimately necessary/required? Yes. Consequences/accountability are the only thing that can ‘stop’ this. But from what I’ve seen, it can only be done by someone that is essentially untouchable, which requires someone from the outside that they can’t get ahold of. Religious leaders, political leaders, police, etc.
The scary thing however, is those folks can be really good at looking good/twisting the circumstances so people get things reversed, and these positions often attract people who are screwed up this way because they know it makes them untouchable. It’s a safety measure.
@@TH-camhandlesaresilly I agree with some of your points, but telling someone (on an abuse recovery forum no less!) that it "sounds like you’ve never dealt with someone with real NPD" is invalidating and gaslighting. Not all narcs are vindictive to the point of burning down your life and sometimes it's important for OUR self-respect and mental health to stand up for ourselves even knowing it won't change them. When I left my covert narc ex-friend I mostly took the high road out of self-preservation and exhaustion (why repeat the same old issues she refused to change for years). But it gives me solace to remember one time towards the end that I told her "That sounds like a you problem." Such a tiny direct rebellion amidst the ocean of BS I tolerated from her, but it heals me a bit.
@@bellaluce7088it’s part of the definition of NPD - as compared to non disorder narcissistic traits. It’s abusive behavior either way (and no one needs anyone’s definition of if it’s NPD or not to leave - and shouldn’t!) but it’s important to know the difference. Someone who knows the ‘real’ truth about the NPD person is an existential threat to them. They can’t just let it go - they have to control, destroy, or somehow otherwise neutralize them (false allegations, physical removal/banishment, etc). It’s part of why it’s so destructive to them and everyone around them.
@@JB-jg1tc Vengeance may be common in NPD, but it's not part of the DSM criteria. Some with NPD are malignant monsters and others are primarily fantasists.
I chose self-preservation over the satisfaction of flaming out angrily when I left for the very reason that they can be unpredictable and vindictive.
But I'm still glad I had a moment of rebellion that's symbolically meaningful to me.
If I hadn't done that, I might think instead about the times I let her calls go to voicemail or didn't respond to her incessant texts. But the main thing is I GOT OUT.
Life's too short (and long) to spend it with unempathic entitled a**holes!
@@bellaluce7088I never said vengeance. I said targeting. Which includes gaslighting, exclusion, false accusations, etc.
The goal is control, destruction, or removal of the threat to their core delusions.
If they’re able to just let the ‘dangerous’ person exist around them, without doing anything to control that person or what they say/do/believe, or attack them, or exclude them, etc. then it’s not NPD.
It may (and probably is) abuse regardless. But probably something else. Someone with NPD can’t just sit around and have someone challenge their core delusions, anymore than someone normal can sit around while being stabbed randomly by someone with a knife.
The DSM 5 sections applicable are:
DSM 5: Sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations;
DSM 6: Interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his/her own ends;
DSM 7: Lacks empathy; is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
Yes please 🙏
I would really welcome DARVO strategies
I felt like the volume was very low and I couldn't get it to go up on my phone so I'm going to try it again on a laptop
I think it's important to add a clarification: I am one who remembers "all the details", because it became a survival strategy, first against toxic family members, later with toxic partners that I unwittingly yet expertly selected.
So to anyone out there who may come across someone like me, please also weigh the other non-narsisicitic traits exercised by people like me before passing judgment. Thank you.
That’s an important point thank you for sharing. I think the difference though is manipulative people exaggerate their slights to deflect from their own bad behaviour.
@@DarrenFMagee I agree. I just find it occasionally disconcerting that some of my survival traits seem to be narcissistic traits as well. I've done a few serious internal inventories over the years to see of those traits have caused me to be a harmful person. So far, so good, thank goodness.
I've used details to try to get them to remember what they did and for them to understand how it made me feel. Perhaps their not understanding and remembering is because I didn't bring it up in the moment. I remember it in detail because I am thinking about what happened. They are unaware they need to be thinking about it and thus won't remember. It could be negativity bias on my part and not narcissistic behavior on their part.
They fear they won’t be bestowed the special privilege of being aligned “with” the narcissist…the deal is they must defend the narcissist at all times and essentially be aligned with them “against” the narcissists targets … they can amass an army of supporters and have no problem giving the order to attack on their behalf.
Darren, thank you for your videos. They help me greatly to cope with my toxic narcissistic mother. This one in particular describes her to a tee!
Is it possible to break-through to the enablers? To reduce / stop then in their harmful role. If so how would you suggest going about it? Thanks
Wow it's like you know my MIL personally.
The trans "rights" movement in a nutshell
This is my family. Then I married a bipolar narcissist, who I later realized was a big Rush Limbaugh fan. Then we created another confused person. How do we break the chains?
Sounds like my Mother-In-Law… so draining…
Your videos are very helpful to me to recover myself I suggest, you to, please ,make a video about ,the victims feel sometime as narcissistic .Thank you.
Have you been following my mother around for her whole life? These are her behaviors to the letter!! 😳
Can you formulate hypotheticals on how to Help them realize that they Are, indeed, Narcissists? Not from our pov... From theirs... we care about them or Have to deal with them... if we could reintegrate them that would be wonderful. From what I've seen, they have Not understood several moral principles and notions that would otherwise allow them to partake in other people's lives... Making someone else's life matter more than theirs would be optimal because they definitely lack empathy. The gal I'm "dating" is a pure narcissist, but I can clearly tell that there are a bunch of notions that are missing... I'm slowly trying to identify them, but it's a mess. She seems to care, but we've come to several conclusions as we spoke... I could see the ups and downs of her inability to create distance with what shouldn't but hurts her deeply... Most of the time, they're her impressions. Regardless, I would love to hear your take. My solution correspond to her communicating (instantly -- with a physical signal) when something displeases her. It would instigate a thought process every time it happens. Or, at least, some distance in order to begin a thought process. Denoting when something happens and slowly categorizing them... then learning about what's up. Being honest with themselves is something they have a hard time doing otherwise they would grow from a position of Weakness. Sure, they may still have a hard time distinguishing Good from bad, but they will have probably escaped the hell they're stuck into.
If you have to credit someone (not necessary): ishibim
What is massively more likely to happen is she will hurt you in the worst way possible until it destroys you, Then act like it didn't happen or it was your fault. You'll end up lucky to save yourself and you will have only enabled her.
Sadly, this sounds all too familiar to me.
Sounds like Harry and Meghan...
Maybe I need to watch your video again, but if I were abusing someone this would be a great video to show them how narcissistic they are for speaking up about the abuse they legitimately may be suffering. Why they should shut up and keep silent and stop playing a victim. Is it narcissistic to stand up to injustice? Is it narcissistic to be angry when one is wronged? Quite frankly, what you're saying sounds more like a way to silence those who have a genuine concern that is not being heard. I suppose it's also goes back to the point that it can be very hard to discern a victim versus abuser when people don't even have an idea when justice is actually being violated. One of the big problems of moral relativism.
I had some similar thoughts. It would also be easy to confound this particular dysfunctional trait of narcissism, in isolation, with more healthy behaviours, that might otherwise manifest very similarly to the dysfunctional narcissistic behaviour. For example, these other personality types/temperaments/mental health conditions are all arguably likely to be more comfortable with openly expressing and communicating ('positive' and 'negative'), such that their expressiveness could otherwise look like, 'victimhood' or 'overly-complaining': Highly Sensitive People (HSPs), those who've been traumatised, those higher in anxiety, and even just the more extraverted, who will be more comfortable expressing openly, in general.
I'm assuming it comes down to the overall complex and patterns of behaviour; Narcissists will exhibit plenty of other dysfunctional behaviours besides.
There is some issue with volume. I am on my laptop and I can hear u but not quite loud enough....I am straining my hearing.....it is not major but it is bothering me.....I am sorry.....must let u know tho
Apologies I may have forgotten to adjust the sound before uploading
@@DarrenFMagee it is perfect now
Ah, mommy dearest...
Genius! TYSMFS! You just described my whole Family Generational Tribe! 😆
Spot on Darren. Thank you❤
Yip went back to a 3week old vid and it is louder.....I thought I was maybe going deaf in my old age.....🤣
Sir also narcissistic always being in here and now or giving fake promises or future faking.
Once again thank you so much for the valuable content sir. Much appreciated. 🙏🏻
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So very true. Remarkable. Thanks for sharing.
Sir would you make a video on acceptance of being in a narcissistic relationship with mother Or being in denial to self about the reality or about cognitive dissonance ( everything is good and she is good )
📌 🎈 🔜 😅
Thank you!
Show on the "Dark Triad"? Thanks!
Hi I’ve have videos on the dark triad, dark personality traits and dark empathy if you’d find those interesting?
@@DarrenFMagee Thank-you Darren!
DFM 👍
Perfectly described. Thank U🙏
✅
could you discuses narcissism and hypnosis?
In what sense, do you mean hypnotherapy?
@symbolsandsystems, Do you know about the thing called Neuro Linguistic Programming? The use of language and choice of emotive phrasing during a conversation for the purpose of "pulling" on someone psychologically to get them to think like you want them to? (Or, emotional manipulation.) As an example, words like "Dumped" (At age 99, into a care home.) "Dragged to" , (true meaning: invited.) "In the gutter". (true meaning: drinks a little more than he should, but is working on it.) "White Elephant." (your gift to me isn't worth much.) One I knew who did this a lot, had studied NLP.
i was thinking that government/gangster narrative and behavior is mass narcissism and mind control.
@symbolsandsystems, Maybe I should add, to be clearer, I held Power of Attorney for my 99 year old mother. My sister in law, for YEARS, tried to turn my mother against me, lose trust in me, etc. She sent my brother over to the care home (he's easy to use as a tool, even though he's not always aware of what she's pulling.) Later that night, my mother asked me, "Are you dumping me off, here"? Our family never used those words, but it's a word she uses easily. She wanted my mother to give THEM P.O.A., and drive a wedge between my mother and me. Then my mother innocently said, "Oh, Gerry was here today." (My brother.) I asked her if he'd used the word "dumped." When I explained what was going on, she said, "Yes, I can see that's what's happening - how do you see this when I didn't?" Then she said, "Let's not worry about it - you and I know where we stand with each other."
@@notagain779 im not a personal counselor
Nobody gets away with anything.
Great 👍😍🤩💖❤💓
To me you are describing “Woke” people, these tactics are commonly used by them.
🙏🙏
Donald Trump. Full Stop.
Thsnk you.
Donald Trump.
Joe Biden.
Machiavelli knew it best. Court rules in family and friendship are brutal.🗡🗡🩸🩸🩸