Bro you working so hard now, this channel will blow up. You are unique and are hella hard working. Also great you are learning the very ins and outs of all the parts and that knowledge will take you further. Keep it up man!
Thank you and I'm glad everyone is enjoying! trying to up the production and release the best content I can! For the mistakes I made I've definitely learned a lot... I just wish the mistakes weren't so expensive 😔
You should do a tear test whenever you are spot welding a different thickness of copper/nickel to make sure the spot welds are good. I can link you the shop I buy my honeycomb nickel and spacers from if you want, the honeycomb spacers really help in situations like this where you have to fit the battery in a tight space.
i did a test when i had first got my spot welder and it was strong with 0.15 nickel and 0.1 copper which is why i've been able to use that thickness for my last two and they still work fine. Now not saying that there isn't better spot welders i just think the tight fit with the wrong spacers made this alot worse than needed. And yes i absolutely need that link!
If you use the honeycomb cell holders that stagger the batteries you can fit more cells and then maybe you won't have so much of your battery sticking out the top. That's not good man. That looks like hell...I printed out the extender for one I did recently and even the extender would hide that problem. You should start over. Use strips first and get proper welds. Now attach to the strips. You don't need sheets. Get copper braid, the big stuff used for ground straps. It's cheap and it sucks up solder. Put your iron(it is NOT a wand BTW) between the cells so people don't have heart attacks because you are heating the cells up too much and let the solder wick up the braid. The braid becomes extremely solid. It will no longer be like rope in any way. It has lots of surface area. The electricity does not go through the wire it travels on the outside of it. Surface area. The entire circuit is only as good as your smallest surface area so you need to be consistent. If you can't keep your pack together it's kind of silly to be worrying about how much current you can pass. You are really only using lots of current when you are going from a dead stop. Once the bike is moving its pulling way less amps. There's nothing wrong with nickel. Fix that battery. It won't take that long to strip it down. It's already falling apart. That battery is dangerous. I lost a house to an idiot mishandling lithium cells so I am aware of what doing something wrong with these cells can cost you. Try again. I know you can do better. Avoid burning your house down. That's a real thing that can happen. I am not kidding. Sucks.
@@aymanzarouali3075 20 feet of .25 inch braid is $10 on Amazon or 40 feet for $16. It's super easy to solder, you can bend it, fold it, basically do whatever with it and then you add the solder and becomes a solid bar.40 feet weighs about a pound. That's Amazon price and it's still cheap. I save my little copper braids and use them for the main power rails when I'm building up a circuit on zero board instead of wasting a ton more solder building up the tracks.
Built my own battery for the surron about 2 years ago. I reused the original case and removed the old cells. Managed to fit 160 21700 cells in that case with no cell holders, just hot glue🤫 2,4kWh in total
Nice music tracks you using brother, wish I lived closer to you so I could learn what you do, love the builds and watching you showcase your skills keep it up.
hi, you should fully disassemble the pack , if the connection pop of you can remove them, restarting from the beginning would be a better option. as for the cell holder you should ditch them, you can build packs using fish paper as an insulator to separate the series cell, there would be no plastic piece sticking out.
Yeah i thought about fully breaking it down. Probably won't do it until I can replace this battery and the reason for replacement is because even if I can fully fix this idk if i want these cells. I looked at the full datasheet of these Samsung's after purchase and realized the power density and cycle life is not as good as Molicel or EVE I just recently found EVE 40PL and I wouldn't use them for my Ron but regardless The lack of density will cause shorter range simply because its not handling power as good I notice they get hotter than Molicel even with less power used and last but not least Molicel and EVE Life cycles is at least 500... Samsung is only 200... Ew
I build my own drone liion batteries 6S21P, but this is on another level. Have you seen the new 21700 molicel batteries coming out?? MOLICEL-INR21700-P50B 5000mah 50a cont. I know those will be my next battery build, but they don't come out till next year. I never did trust spot welds due to vibration I usually just solder & spot weld when i need to. The best results is to ruff up the battery terminals.
This kind of cell spacers and full-sheet copper connectors don’t go along nicely. OK, that was a very frustrating experience. But take a rest and calm down to reconsider your options. Important question: Is your spot-welder able to reliably sandwich-weld 0.2 mm copper? If the answer is yes, I would recommend the following solution: The standard ladder-style cell connectors that fit your cell holders are not only available in pure nickel, but in 0.2 mm solid copper as well. And they’re not very expensive. You’ll need about 5 meters which can be bought for under 20 bucks from the right source. These provide you 0.2 x 9.5 mm = 1.9 mm² of cross-section per cell. At the moment you have basically two 10S12P batteries connected in series. Based on that layout you would only have 6x 1.9 mm², which - of course - is not enough. But if you change your layout to two 20S6P batteries connected in parallel, you would instantly double the number of copper strings and get 12x 1.9 mm². Almost 23 mm² in total is more than 4AWG; that should fill your needs. Yes, you will need some additional wires for connecting all single „P“ in parallel. However, they won’t have to be heavy gauge. Just make sure that you connect the final plus and minus wires to the ends of both blocks with decent cables. It will be time-consuming, no doubt about it. But the costs for this solution are very low. Think about it... I hope you understand my explanation, English is not my native language.
Thanks for the info my guy! My spot welder handles 0.15 nickel and 0.1 copper pretty well which is what and why i always used it for my last two battery builds but like you said the short solid copper and spacers are not a good mix.. at all! but you know what those strips your talking about I saw those on aliexpress... but it being ali I didn't budge.
You are way too comfortable with that big soldering iron above the cells with the little tiny copper sheet dude. Dont do that. Solder the wires on with something to isolate underneath - Cells have a reasonably low runoff treshold, you will either damage the cell and it will bite you in the ass a month in the pack, OR you are very unlucky and set your pack ablaze before its even finished. Be careful. These amount of cells arent a joke.
I feel the same when it comes to ebike projects especially when having a set amount of money and wanting to move on to other projects it definitely gets tiring
Sooo exhausting! I love building but when its time to move on its time to move on! Now some of these mistakes on my projects hace been my fault i can't lie but the scamming from aliexpress is CRAZY! But every bike i built has had a 1k+ problem... 🤦♂
I was thinking the same. Either that or proper cell spacers for this application I assume at least because my last two batt builds are doing fine with these spacers and spot welder.
Atleast you didn't glue the cells together and mix cells like another builder lmfao. Should have did a 9P(180 cells) or 8P. Don't buy from Chi, they used to do bypass bms.
Dam bro I wish I saw this earlier I would have built one for u, helped u out with cells, or and more. But it’s never too later if u wanna make another one ? 😏😏😏👀👀👀
You will have to balance them based on voltage per group. Please do not let the $1700 go to waste. Push past the mistakes and fix it. Brand new cells and this one is manUfacturer error😅 Your spot welder may not be strong enough to weld through all that. And your solder joints are cold😭
I can do that for balancing since i also do have a Small DC Power supply but for everything else... I'm trying 😂 If i do replace the battery i wont go fully to waste I'll probably would end up breaking down overtime to try and fix what i can but if i don't then it will be a back up battery for projects.
dealing with that much energy store on that battery inside a house is very scarey.. lol. I would deal with a broken head stud than working on those batteries.. LOL
@@chevy60 Correct, but given the same welder, you can weld thicker nickel so in reality you'd probably only need 2x the strips, albeit thicker ones. I do find welding 3 layers of nickel strips is more reliable than trying to weld copper. One unreliable connection of a copper strip is enough to counteract any time and material savings of using copper when your welder really isn't strong enough for it IMO.
@@fredrikcarlen3212 Sure, you need a strong welder for copper. I have a Glitter 811H. But when you buy cells for more than a Grand for just one battery (and more of them will probably follow), the right tool for the job is a good investment and working with it is also satisfying.😉
I've always wanted to use them due to the way they are it seems like you could build a fairly compact battery with crazy power if you have the right pouch cells BUT I've never used them because I don't know a legit source and even if I did... Any batt can go very wrong if something bad happens but in my opinion pouch cells are the most explosive dangerous catastrophic cells to deal with if the wrong move is made... I mean from what I've seen they will literally just explode... at least the other cells will warn you with smoke 😄
@@ItsMallie yeah thats true i have just got some lgx e61v and lgx e61d from an alibaba seller that is a verified manufacture. i have had them sitting around and going to bite the dust and test the cells first before putting them together I'm am a little skeptical as the page for the cells are supposed to do 3c(180 amps) continuously and 5c(300) peak. from what they gave me as a spec sheet is shows 2c continuously and 3c peak. i did a little research and saw batemo did some test on lgx e61 cells showing 128 contiuns and 295peak but I wont know till I test each sell indivialy before putting them together than putting them in a stainless steel case to reduce any damage in case something went wrong.
@@TheRealMime-_- I live with my parents so im not worrying about bills. I used to do alot of uber eats but as of recently My brother Introduced me to PPD
@@ItsMallie Also one last thing, how powrful do you think a spot welder should be for a 21s 12p battery build, and how many layers of copper and nickle did you use for you build?
@@QWERTY-zy5zt Just one layer of nickle and copper is what i use. I do wanna say though I am no expert so for spot welders i dont really have a clue i use a cheep 150$ super capacitor 3000f spot welder off of amazon and i went with it because at the time it had decent reviews and after using it myself it worked. I wanna get a better one but for now im just using what works.
Yeeaah i saw that to late so i did the build anyway. No matter if I buy or build Im going to stick with Molicel for now on. Only reason I wont one more time is because I wanna see if I can get ahold of EVE 40PL those seem like some ultra strong cells I wanna do more research on them though
@@ItsMallie you can see other users experience with the same welder. I got myself a 801D with shitty leads, could not weld through copper , got myself better leads and they do the job. I can pull as hard as possible and they won't come off. For future you can also do a pull test
solder every positive and negative ending on the battery itself all you have to do now is drill small holes into the copper sheet now all you have to do is lay the sheet on top of the battery and 10 the holes a tiny bit I can show you the trick that they're using if you would have drilled holes in that copper and soldered it it would be don't have to heat it up long because the solder will flow right into the hole onto the per tind battery i need a 52 volt battery if i show u how to werld will u help me make one u no how to wier i no how to weld will help ech other lol i allso i am geting in to programing contlers for ebikes an scooters ps if my spelling bad im sorry i have a ahrd time reading and spelling something i had problems with in school my hole life meth is ezy just reading latter are backwards
Relax bud 🤣 I've made two simple mistakes that cost me! But Two mistakes.. thats it. This batt has no reason to just burst into flames 😆 And i've built two batts this one being the third and not only are they doing just fine but the second batt being FAR bigger than this one so... I don't know about being clueless but... Your opinion its fine 😂
Bro you working so hard now, this channel will blow up. You are unique and are hella hard working. Also great you are learning the very ins and outs of all the parts and that knowledge will take you further. Keep it up man!
Thank you and I'm glad everyone is enjoying!
trying to up the production and release
the best content I can!
For the mistakes I made
I've definitely learned a lot...
I just wish the mistakes weren't so expensive 😔
You should do a tear test whenever you are spot welding a different thickness of copper/nickel to make sure the spot welds are good. I can link you the shop I buy my honeycomb nickel and spacers from if you want, the honeycomb spacers really help in situations like this where you have to fit the battery in a tight space.
i did a test when i had first got my spot welder and it was strong with 0.15 nickel and 0.1 copper
which is why i've been able to use that thickness for my last two and they still work fine.
Now not saying that there isn't better spot welders i just think the tight fit with the wrong spacers made this alot worse than needed.
And yes i absolutely need that link!
@@ItsMallie If you don't see the reply with the links then I can email them to you, TH-cam doesn't like links sometimes.
@@Calthecool Holy shit i thought i replied to this but no i don't see the links.
My ig is Ebike_Mallie
try and see if you can send it there
If you use the honeycomb cell holders that stagger the batteries you can fit more cells and then maybe you won't have so much of your battery sticking out the top. That's not good man. That looks like hell...I printed out the extender for one I did recently and even the extender would hide that problem.
You should start over. Use strips first and get proper welds. Now attach to the strips. You don't need sheets. Get copper braid, the big stuff used for ground straps. It's cheap and it sucks up solder. Put your iron(it is NOT a wand BTW) between the cells so people don't have heart attacks because you are heating the cells up too much and let the solder wick up the braid. The braid becomes extremely solid. It will no longer be like rope in any way. It has lots of surface area. The electricity does not go through the wire it travels on the outside of it. Surface area. The entire circuit is only as good as your smallest surface area so you need to be consistent.
If you can't keep your pack together it's kind of silly to be worrying about how much current you can pass. You are really only using lots of current when you are going from a dead stop. Once the bike is moving its pulling way less amps. There's nothing wrong with nickel.
Fix that battery. It won't take that long to strip it down. It's already falling apart. That battery is dangerous. I lost a house to an idiot mishandling lithium cells so I am aware of what doing something wrong with these cells can cost you. Try again. I know you can do better. Avoid burning your house down. That's a real thing that can happen. I am not kidding. Sucks.
the copper braides wire is smart, never tought about that, I know copper busbars exist but they are expensive.
@@aymanzarouali3075 20 feet of .25 inch braid is $10 on Amazon or 40 feet for $16. It's super easy to solder, you can bend it, fold it, basically do whatever with it and then you add the solder and becomes a solid bar.40 feet weighs about a pound. That's Amazon price and it's still cheap.
I save my little copper braids and use them for the main power rails when I'm building up a circuit on zero board instead of wasting a ton more solder building up the tracks.
Very good info thank you!
I also did think about how honeycomb spacers
will allow a bigger battery that won't be so tall.
nice video. im looking into building my own eveentually. Please keep posting! i enjoy watching this!
If its for a surron...
Get the honeycomb spacers 😆
Built my own battery for the surron about 2 years ago. I reused the original case and removed the old cells. Managed to fit 160 21700 cells in that case with no cell holders, just hot glue🤫
2,4kWh in total
Nice music tracks you using brother, wish I lived closer to you so I could learn what you do, love the builds and watching you showcase your skills keep it up.
hi, you should fully disassemble the pack , if the connection pop of you can remove them, restarting from the beginning would be a better option. as for the cell holder you should ditch them, you can build packs using fish paper as an insulator to separate the series cell, there would be no plastic piece sticking out.
Yeah i thought about fully breaking it down.
Probably won't do it until I can replace this battery
and the reason for replacement is because
even if I can fully fix this idk if i want these cells.
I looked at the full datasheet of these Samsung's
after purchase and realized the power density
and cycle life is not as good as Molicel or EVE
I just recently found EVE 40PL and
I wouldn't use them for my Ron but regardless
The lack of density will cause shorter range
simply because its not handling power as good
I notice they get hotter than Molicel even with
less power used and last but not least
Molicel and EVE Life cycles is at least 500...
Samsung is only 200... Ew
I build my own drone liion batteries 6S21P, but this is on another level. Have you seen the new 21700 molicel batteries coming out??
MOLICEL-INR21700-P50B
5000mah 50a cont. I know those will be my next battery build, but they don't come out till next year. I never did trust spot welds due to vibration I usually just solder & spot weld when i need to. The best results is to ruff up the battery terminals.
Yessir! i've been looking at those and the EVE 40pl cells
if you want the solder to hold you have to use sandpaper on the cell terminals or scratch it enough to make it rough
This kind of cell spacers and full-sheet copper connectors don’t go along nicely.
OK, that was a very frustrating experience. But take a rest and calm down to reconsider your options.
Important question: Is your spot-welder able to reliably sandwich-weld 0.2 mm copper? If the answer is yes, I would recommend the following solution:
The standard ladder-style cell connectors that fit your cell holders are not only available in pure nickel, but in 0.2 mm solid copper as well. And they’re not very expensive. You’ll need about 5 meters which can be bought for under 20 bucks from the right source. These provide you 0.2 x 9.5 mm = 1.9 mm² of cross-section per cell.
At the moment you have basically two 10S12P batteries connected in series. Based on that layout you would only have 6x 1.9 mm², which - of course - is not enough. But if you change your layout to two 20S6P batteries connected in parallel, you would instantly double the number of copper strings and get 12x 1.9 mm². Almost 23 mm² in total is more than 4AWG; that should fill your needs.
Yes, you will need some additional wires for connecting all single „P“ in parallel. However, they won’t have to be heavy gauge. Just make sure that you connect the final plus and minus wires to the ends of both blocks with decent cables.
It will be time-consuming, no doubt about it. But the costs for this solution are very low.
Think about it...
I hope you understand my explanation, English is not my native language.
Thanks for the info my guy!
My spot welder handles
0.15 nickel and 0.1 copper pretty well
which is what and why i always used it for
my last two battery builds but like you said
the short solid copper and spacers
are not a good mix.. at all!
but you know what those strips your talking about
I saw those on aliexpress...
but it being ali I didn't budge.
You need to sand the oxidation away from the surface of the battery cell if you try to solder them.
Save up for a 3D printer and make your own cell holders. It solves the problem you're having. Smooth surfaces for welding.
After using my sisters I really want one now!
But a good expensive one so I don't have to do
all that bed leveling bs
You are way too comfortable with that big soldering iron above the cells with the little tiny copper sheet dude. Dont do that. Solder the wires on with something to isolate underneath - Cells have a reasonably low runoff treshold, you will either damage the cell and it will bite you in the ass a month in the pack, OR you are very unlucky and set your pack ablaze before its even finished. Be careful. These amount of cells arent a joke.
I feel the same when it comes to ebike projects especially when having a set amount of money and wanting to move on to other projects it definitely gets tiring
Sooo exhausting!
I love building but when its time to move on
its time to move on!
Now some of these mistakes on my projects
hace been my fault i can't lie but
the scamming from aliexpress is CRAZY!
But every bike i built has had a 1k+ problem... 🤦♂
222volt should be next?
Sheesh i would have to find a controller that can go that high
this is asking for big problem you need a highter power spot welder that can put out a couple 1000 amp good luck on your project
I was thinking the same.
Either that or proper cell spacers for this application I assume at least because
my last two batt builds are doing fine with
these spacers and spot welder.
Atleast you didn't glue the cells together and mix cells like another builder lmfao. Should have did a 9P(180 cells) or 8P. Don't buy from Chi, they used to do bypass bms.
I would order a battery from Amorge its much cheaper than Chi
@@jasminposavec He's scared of Alibaba. I have 3 batteries from them and a battery from Ron Carroll. They are both better than Chi.
Well what the hell i didn't know they bypass there bms... thats annoying
Dam bro I wish I saw this earlier I would have built one for u, helped u out with cells, or and more. But it’s never too later if u wanna make another one ? 😏😏😏👀👀👀
I gotta get my bread back up
and then I'll weigh my options
but if I decide to build
I will def contact you for help!
You will have to balance them based on voltage per group. Please do not let the $1700 go to waste. Push past the mistakes and fix it. Brand new cells and this one is manUfacturer error😅
Your spot welder may not be strong enough to weld through all that. And your solder joints are cold😭
I can do that for balancing since i also do have a
Small DC Power supply
but for everything else... I'm trying 😂
If i do replace the battery i wont go fully to waste
I'll probably would end up breaking down overtime to try and fix what i can but if i don't
then it will be a back up battery for projects.
whats the total cost of this
Batt alone was about 1600$
😮
dealing with that much energy store on that battery inside a house is very scarey.. lol. I would deal with a broken head stud than working on those batteries.. LOL
Usually i don't have these problems 🤣
but this time around its far more sketchy
Why are you using the copper piece?, i built a couple batteries but always used nickel
Copper is the way to go for high loads. Less resistance, less heat, less voltage drop.
@@chevy60 Sure, but stacking a few layers of nickel strips accomplishes the same thing, and is way easier to get right.
@@fredrikcarlen3212 You need about four times the thickness of nickel compared to copper. Possible, but it looks a bit tinkered.
@@chevy60 Correct, but given the same welder, you can weld thicker nickel so in reality you'd probably only need 2x the strips, albeit thicker ones.
I do find welding 3 layers of nickel strips is more reliable than trying to weld copper. One unreliable connection of a copper strip is enough to counteract any time and material savings of using copper when your welder really isn't strong enough for it IMO.
@@fredrikcarlen3212 Sure, you need a strong welder for copper. I have a Glitter 811H. But when you buy cells for more than a Grand for just one battery (and more of them will probably follow), the right tool for the job is a good investment and working with it is also satisfying.😉
Hey mallie what’s your thoughts on powerful pouch cells battery
I've always wanted to use them due to the way they are it seems like you could build
a fairly compact battery with crazy power
if you have the right pouch cells BUT
I've never used them because I don't know
a legit source and even if I did...
Any batt can go very wrong if something bad happens but in my opinion pouch cells
are the most explosive dangerous catastrophic cells to deal with if the wrong move is made...
I mean from what I've seen they will literally just
explode... at least the other cells will warn you with smoke 😄
@@ItsMallie yeah thats true i have just got some lgx e61v and lgx e61d from an alibaba seller that is a verified manufacture. i have had them sitting around and going to bite the dust and test the cells first before putting them together I'm am a little skeptical as the page for the cells are supposed to do 3c(180 amps) continuously and 5c(300) peak. from what they gave me as a spec sheet is shows 2c continuously and 3c peak. i did a little research and saw batemo did some test on lgx e61 cells showing 128 contiuns and 295peak but I wont know till I test each sell indivialy before putting them together than putting them in a stainless steel case to reduce any damage in case something went wrong.
what do you do for work?
Nothing until now...
Trying to make TH-cam my full time
@@ItsMallie how did you get all the money for your bikes and upgrades?
@@TheRealMime-_- I live with my parents so im not worrying about bills.
I used to do alot of uber eats
but as of recently
My brother Introduced me to PPD
what copper and nickle did you use for this battery pack?
Both off of amazon
i use shonan nickle strips
and uxcell copper sheets
@@ItsMallie What was the thickness of both of them?
@@QWERTY-zy5zt Nickle is 0.15 copper is 0.1
@@ItsMallie Also one last thing, how powrful do you think a spot welder should be for a 21s 12p battery build, and how many layers of copper and nickle did you use for you build?
@@QWERTY-zy5zt Just one layer of nickle and copper is what i use.
I do wanna say though I am no expert
so for spot welders i dont really have a clue
i use a cheep 150$ super capacitor 3000f
spot welder off of amazon
and i went with it because at the time
it had decent reviews and after using it myself it worked.
I wanna get a better one but for now
im just using what works.
Someone just did a huge video on tabless batteries and comparing them in cost and performance, check it out.
I just recently saw that!
Im gonna check it out when I have time
Homie got the Playstation music playing? Lol 😅
Its some really good and smooth music 🤣
LOOK AT THE DATASHEET!!! Those cells will be trash after 250 cycles
Yeeaah i saw that to late so i did the build anyway.
No matter if I buy or build Im going to stick with
Molicel for now on.
Only reason I wont one more time is because
I wanna see if I can get ahold of EVE 40PL
those seem like some ultra strong cells
I wanna do more research on them though
Could it be that your welder isn't strong enough?
yeah it is, him spot welder is too weak for the copper.
Even if the connections where tight I was able to get them down so the fact that they are popping off after could be the case of a weak spot welder.
@@ItsMallie you can see other users experience with the same welder. I got myself a 801D with shitty leads, could not weld through copper , got myself better leads and they do the job. I can pull as hard as possible and they won't come off. For future you can also do a pull test
@@laptech3767 So you think i should get better leads first? or just a new welder.
solder every positive and negative ending on the battery itself all you have to do now is drill small holes into the copper sheet now all you have to do is lay the sheet on top of the battery and 10 the holes a tiny bit I can show you the trick that they're using if you would have drilled holes in that copper and soldered it it would be don't have to heat it up long because the solder will flow right into the hole onto the per tind battery i need a 52 volt battery if i show u how to werld will u help me make one u no how to wier i no how to weld will help ech other lol i allso i am geting in to programing contlers for ebikes an scooters ps if my spelling bad im sorry i have a ahrd time reading and spelling something i had problems with in school my hole life meth is ezy just reading latter are backwards
Yeah don't go near a government building with that one my g
🤣😂🤣
Ok.
U need to contact me for help. I can help u fix this battery
People like him that doesent have a clue on yt is destroying the representation of evs with battery fires..
Relax bud 🤣
I've made two simple mistakes that cost me! But
Two mistakes.. thats it.
This batt has no reason to just burst into flames 😆
And i've built two batts this one being the third
and not only are they doing just fine
but the second batt being
FAR bigger than this one so...
I don't know about being clueless but...
Your opinion its fine 😂